TBH, if they don't release SQ42 in 2016, oh boy, they'll be in big trouble.
Are you joking? What trouble would that be?
[...]
Maybe they need the money They are spending it faster than they concept ships
Maybe they don't need the money.
I'm not aware of any source detailing their financial situation with any validity.
I read where Roberts said if they go under 3m a month then he would need to cut back. He has done exactly that after making those statements.
Sometimes it's not always about what you can see or hear but what's under the hood of a game that's most impressive. Between those thousands and thousands of lines of code, magic happens. Sometimes the most amazing feats of gaming wizardry happen without you even noticing.
You guys really think someone gets a X amount of money for a project they'll just use that money and that's it?
Dude, investments, dudes. If they want to keep going they need to use that money to generate more money.
There is an article about the Fable Franchise (and it's development) quite easy to find on google that tells in details all their journey including the way the financial part is handle (with interviews). I suggest you read that.
Yeah but the numbers they continue to quote are specifically linked to SC sales/donations/subs not money their making off reinvesting the money they (allegedly) had raised up til now. Its also a fantasy to think that if they did in fact invest that money they did raise that it makes money every single day in any sort of account. If he could do that he wouldnt have needed a kickstarter in the first place he would have made the money himself.
@rodarin, dude, you get a set (starter) amount of money and use a part of it to have a gradual (but certain) income so you can keep ongoing projects afloat.
Yeah maybe in a NORMAL business model. Find anything from ANYONE associated with this project where they say anything about it is 'normal'.
The business stuff has been exposed beyond reproach from cars to doors to murals to vacations, to whatever other nonsense they spent money on that hasnt been seen or I havent heard about.
Stop trying to make it out like they were savants with that money and invested it and turned 20 million into 500 million.
Because they cant even turn 120 million (allegedly) into a 5 million dollar game.
The business stuff has been exposed beyond reproach
LOL.
"the Business stuff" ?
You mean TheSmarty ranting about the cost of an espresso machine ?
THAT is what you consider talking about "the Business stuff" ?
Links to Foundry 42 financial and business records. THAT is "the Business stuff". Not looking up the cost of lamps online. The UK part you can read online.
There is - to my knowledge - no financial and business information available about the US part of CIG/RSI. Which makes all talk about "the Business stuff" speculation only. And i have posted my own speculation here several times.
Speculating is fine. But it should not be presented as "facts",
The business stuff has been exposed beyond reproach from cars to doors to murals to vacations...
LMAO.
Perhaps crowdfunded game developers should be forced to work 12-hour days while seated on old packing crates and using refurbished CRT monitors... and take their holidays AFTER the game is finished !
Everybody's a CEO on the internet, and every one of them has more business savvy than Carl Icahn.
The business stuff has been exposed beyond reproach
LOL.
"the Business stuff" ?
You mean TheSmarty ranting about the cost of an espresso machine ?
THAT is what you consider talking about "the Business stuff" ?
Links to Foundry 42 financial and business records. THAT is "the Business stuff". Not looking up the cost of lamps online. The UK part you can read online.
There is - to my knowledge - no financial and business information available about the US part of CIG/RSI. Which makes all talk about "the Business stuff" speculation only. And i have posted my own speculation here several times.
Speculating is fine. But it should not be presented as "facts",
Have fun
and why is that? Again people have made their opinions known and what countries have what regulations and why the 'company' was split into separate entities. So while they might not understand the basics they surely have the shady aspects down.
Agains we will all get to see what is what and no matter what both sides will claim they were right. Short of of course them disappearing to a country with no extradition to any of the countries that might want to do so.
Ah yes.... back to the argument "Roberts will run off with the money to a tropical island somewhere".
And to cover that, he first employs hundreds of people and creates a game and waits several years ... all to confuse his hunters, I am sure.
Have fun
No I said that would be the ONLY concrete 'proof' of anything.
They will release something. I said that a long time ago. At will at best be a pay to win borefest that will be trashed by 90% of the gamer population. The other 10% which includes you and the other usual suspects will treat it like its the second coming. Basically how Kano treats Archeage.
At worst it will be a broken and bugged mess that is also pay to win or in the very least tries to sell anything and everything it can to fund some rudimentary fixes. There might possibly be an update or two (with stuff they actually did work on but didnt finish) and then the next campaign will start for the expansion which more than likely will take 3 or 4 years after announcement to complete in a similar broken and disastrous form.
We wont know, I might not live long enough to see it myself. But something someday will eventually get released they try to pass off as their original vision. But like I said not many people are going to buy into it.
The business stuff has been exposed beyond reproach from cars to doors to murals to vacations...
LMAO.
Perhaps crowdfunded game developers should be forced to work 12-hour days while seated on old packing crates and using refurbished CRT monitors... and take their holidays AFTER the game is finished !
Everybody's a CEO on the internet, and every one of them has more business savvy than Carl Icahn.
You just described how Fable was made.
Exactly you sacrifice a lot then go nuts once money starts rolling in after release. Here they are celebrating before any game is made or released. UO was made in a garage, then Origin became what started us all on this road to online gaming.
Sometimes it's not always about what you can see or hear but what's under the hood of a game that's most impressive. Between those thousands and thousands of lines of code, magic happens. Sometimes the most amazing feats of gaming wizardry happen without you even noticing.
TBH, if they don't release SQ42 in 2016, oh boy, they'll be in big trouble.
Are you joking? What trouble would that be?
[...]
Maybe they need the money They are spending it faster than they concept ships
Maybe they don't need the money.
I'm not aware of any source detailing their financial situation with any validity.
I read where Roberts said if they go under 3m a month then he would need to cut back. He has done exactly that after making those statements.
Roberts can just snap his fingers and money blows out his ass. He won't have any money problems with this game ever. Unless he shows us absolutely nothing at citizencon then I think he's doomed no matter how hard he snaps his fingers.
@rodarin, for holy Yog-Sothoth, chill your nuts, man. I'm not trying to make it out like anything. Why everytime someone states something in a reply you guys assume that person is trying to defend on to glorify the said persons? I'm just explaining. And I agree with you, so chill out and pay attention before throwing angry cats from a bag.
I don't think they can do that kind of stuff, that's why I said they need SQ42 sales numbers.
You guys are really easy to crack, any comment and "they can't even make the game, it will fail! AAAAAAAAARGH!" pops up.
Well, first off, you brought logic to a SC thread. Here, only literal interpretations matter. Attempting to apply any sort of logic is an exercise in futility. Please keep that in mind and carry on!
The business stuff has been exposed beyond reproach from cars to doors to murals to vacations...
LMAO.
Perhaps crowdfunded game developers should be forced to work 12-hour days while seated on old packing crates and using refurbished CRT monitors... and take their holidays AFTER the game is finished !
Everybody's a CEO on the internet, and every one of them has more business savvy than Carl Icahn.
You just described how Fable was made.
Exactly you sacrifice a lot then go nuts once money starts rolling in after release. Here they are celebrating before any game is made or released. UO was made in a garage, then Origin became what started us all on this road to online gaming.
Love the examples, but working 12-hour days provides diminishing returns. Also, you're effectively paying for people to work when they are least efficient (after working for 8 hours already). The reality of crunch time is that it's VERY expensive and VERY inefficient.
Also, it should be mentioned that a 300 person team doesn't necessarily get things done faster, either. Again, it only adds additional layers on complexity, essentially requiring you to spend considerably more in order to achieve marginal gains.
@rodarin, for holy Yog-Sothoth, chill your nuts, man. I'm not trying to make it out like anything. Why everytime someone states something in a reply you guys assume that person is trying to defend on to glorify the said persons? I'm just explaining. And I agree with you, so chill out and pay attention before throwing angry cats from a bag.
I don't think they can do that kind of stuff, that's why I said they need SQ42 sales numbers.
You guys are really easy to crack, any comment and "they can't even make the game, it will fail! AAAAAAAAARGH!" pops up.
Well, first off, you brought logic to a SC thread. Here, only literal interpretations matter. Attempting to apply any sort of logic is an exercise in futility. Please keep that in mind and carry on!
logic? Really? Come on.
Every supporter here tries to SPIN everything SAID or NOT said insot some bed of roses or give an argument that suggests these guys are doing (fill in the best case scebnario you can think of) with this game or the money.
When every bit of VISIBLE 'evidence' shows the exact opposite.
How is that logical in the least?
This game has 1.5 million backers or citizens (again a spin job) yet they have at best 6500 people watching their live stream (that is actually semi entertaining and really does make the game appear better than it is). But its still an 8 man instance with 4 on 4 teams, that anyone could do in any other 'survival' game out there. Although not in space and not with armor that is just for show. Although I dont think Miscreated armor has stats either. So that is a definite case of the players inventing something in the game world (what there is of it) and making the best of it. Oh and the giveaways they have had.
So while that sound like I am giving a negative spin, it isnt really it is simply citing what I have seen with my own two eyes. The comments on the stream and the streamers is opinion but actually theyre helping to hype this turd pretty well. But I am sure they were all compensated as well as getting a free trip there (with backer money to be sure). So theyre obligated to I supposed. Assumption but more than likely truth. I am sure we will here eventually if they were paid, compensated or received a free trip to Europe at some time.
Now tonight is the HUGE event. I guess in like 2,5 hrs we will see the master of spin there. People can take what they want out of what is said but I suspect in a conference like this they want to be SHOWN something, and I would hope more would expect more than a cinematic movie, and be extremely disappointed if that is all they saw. But then again they had dozens if not hundred of hours of people actually playing Star Marine (on some engine) and we know where that is a year later. So sometimes seeing isnt even worth believing wit these guys.
There are just way too many negatives surrounding this whole project to believe what they simply say, and half of what you even see. But seeing something tangible would at least be something that didnt have ot be spun, and while detractors could bring up Star marine and the other stuff they have shown and not delivered, and they wouldnt be overly negative in doing so, but the supporters could at least have something they could see to think about.
@rodarin, for holy Yog-Sothoth, chill your nuts, man. I'm not trying to make it out like anything. Why everytime someone states something in a reply you guys assume that person is trying to defend on to glorify the said persons? I'm just explaining. And I agree with you, so chill out and pay attention before throwing angry cats from a bag.
I don't think they can do that kind of stuff, that's why I said they need SQ42 sales numbers.
You guys are really easy to crack, any comment and "they can't even make the game, it will fail! AAAAAAAAARGH!" pops up.
Well, first off, you brought logic to a SC thread. Here, only literal interpretations matter. Attempting to apply any sort of logic is an exercise in futility. Please keep that in mind and carry on!
logic? Really? Come on.
Every supporter here tries to SPIN everything SAID or NOT said insot some bed of roses or give an argument that suggests these guys are doing (fill in the best case scebnario you can think of) with this game or the money.
When every bit of VISIBLE 'evidence' shows the exact opposite.
How is that logical in the least?
This game has 1.5 million backers or citizens (again a spin job) yet they have at best 6500 people watching their live stream (that is actually semi entertaining and really does make the game appear better than it is). But its still an 8 man instance with 4 on 4 teams, that anyone could do in any other 'survival' game out there. Although not in space and not with armor that is just for show. Although I dont think Miscreated armor has stats either. So that is a definite case of the players inventing something in the game world (what there is of it) and making the best of it. Oh and the giveaways they have had.
So while that sound like I am giving a negative spin, it isnt really it is simply citing what I have seen with my own two eyes. The comments on the stream and the streamers is opinion but actually theyre helping to hype this turd pretty well. But I am sure they were all compensated as well as getting a free trip there (with backer money to be sure). So theyre obligated to I supposed. Assumption but more than likely truth. I am sure we will here eventually if they were paid, compensated or received a free trip to Europe at some time.
Now tonight is the HUGE event. I guess in like 2,5 hrs we will see the master of spin there. People can take what they want out of what is said but I suspect in a conference like this they want to be SHOWN something, and I would hope more would expect more than a cinematic movie, and be extremely disappointed if that is all they saw. But then again they had dozens if not hundred of hours of people actually playing Star Marine (on some engine) and we know where that is a year later. So sometimes seeing isnt even worth believing wit these guys.
There are just way too many negatives surrounding this whole project to believe what they simply say, and half of what you even see. But seeing something tangible would at least be something that didnt have ot be spun, and while detractors could bring up Star marine and the other stuff they have shown and not delivered, and they wouldnt be overly negative in doing so, but the supporters could at least have something they could see to think about.
OK! Visible evidence, no. There isn't isn't. Visible evidence would be a lawsuit. AGAIN!!! And I already said this to you once, so I don't know if you have a short attention span or if you're just willfully ignorant, I contacted the Los Angeles DCBA personally, and there are no open, formal, investigations. While they claim that they have received claims with regards to CIG, these claims are generally handled informally.
Your argument is all based on observations without any sort of comparable supporting evidence.
Yes, SC has 1.5 million backers (or so they say). There are plenty of backers which don't even play the game at the moment. I have been a backer since KS and I have been in my hanger. That's it. Secondly, I don't watch any streams at all. Also, there have been plenty of people on here to tell you that as well. What percentage of people actually watch these live streams? Which games have the highest viewership? How does SC compare to similarly-populated games? How many people actually play SC right now? See? Lots of data that you completely ignore. For all you know, that 6500 could actually be substantial in comparison to other titles of it's size.
There are too many negatives surrounding the game, but they are mostly negatives that are manufactured by people who nothing to back it up. Honestly, DS probably led out with some VERY damning technical information. Once those were squashed, though, there has been, quite literally, nothing technical about the game that raised concerns. Instead he just invalidated himself as any sort of expert source. Honestly, I wish they would do a follow-up with that Ascent dev. He had a LOT of really cool technical insights.
As far as hype goes, would it change you're mind about the whole situation if he got up there and started flinging copies of SC and Star Marine into the crowd? Probably not. You'd probably just say it's probably marketing, or it's probably a POS. Right? I mean you're not really that objective. Again, you claim to be. Then you use neat and nice little diversionary tactics like "I know this sounds negative, but...." to make it sound like you're being objective, but you're really not. That's fine, though. I'm just saying, don't act like you're some ambassador of neutrality and then offer zero objective views. Honestly, short of him getting up there and shooting rainbows out of his ass, I don't really see anything he has to say changing anyone's mind. Period.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
No I said what a good start to changing peoples minds would be. Having an SQ 42 module that is at least as far along as the Arena Commander module people are playing now. That would at least show they have a prayer of releasing an SQ 42 retail version in the next 18 months.
I also find it hard to believe tat with all the hype and expectations that backers (specifically you) have only gone into your hanger during the 3 years the game has been available to 'play'. Now people who never had any intention of playing and just stockpiled ships to sell later , MAYBE but not anyone who actually bought into the game with the goal to actually own it and play it.
No I said what a good start to changing peoples minds would be. Having an SQ 42 module that is at least as far along as the Arena Commander module people are playing now. That would at least show they have a prayer of releasing an SQ 42 retail version in the next 18 months.
I also find it hard to believe tat with all the hype and expectations that backers (specifically you) have only gone into your hanger during the 3 years the game has been available to 'play'. Now people who never had any intention of playing and just stockpiled ships to sell later , MAYBE but not anyone who actually bought into the game with the goal to actually own it and play it.
So I dont believe that comment.
Ok, so I'll agree with you on SQ42. I mean, apparently, they moved a huge chunk of their team over to that. Soooooooooo, yeah.
As far as not playing the game, dude! I've been testing software and betas for probably 20 years now. I've tried my hand at testing, design, development and I even did a stint on the business end because for whatever reason people liked me, which my personality profile disagrees with. Oh! And I owned a review website for a while that I ran with some friends. Since I relegated that site to nothing but spitting out feeds, SC is probably as close to a beta as I have gotten. Honestly, I'm happy some are still quite enamored with the whole idea of getting into something early, but I'd much rather see the finished project now. Call me crazy, but seeing all the insides of a game before it's released kinda ruins it for me. Actually, that's a lie, I did actually play Grim Dawn for like an hour while it was in EA. I haven't gone back to it yet, though. See what I mean?
It's not that much of a stretch. Also, I value my time much more now, so I'd rather not invest hundreds of hours into something that will inevitably be deleted, just for me to start all over again.
Comments
https://www.google.com/search?q=google+exact+match+search&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b#q=[Star+Citizen]
Youtube Search (exact match): allintitle:"Star Citizen"
approx 197.000 results
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=allintitle:"Star+Citizen"
Almost zero presence indeed......
Have fun
Rob Manuel
The recent PCGames article reports that the number of CIG employees is still going UP, not DOWN!
Erin Roberts tells us in his interview about number of employees going UP at Foundry 42 UK and Foundry 42 Frankfurt.
Have fun
Egg ... this is Hen.
Have fun
The business stuff has been exposed beyond reproach from cars to doors to murals to vacations, to whatever other nonsense they spent money on that hasnt been seen or I havent heard about.
Stop trying to make it out like they were savants with that money and invested it and turned 20 million into 500 million.
Because they cant even turn 120 million (allegedly) into a 5 million dollar game.
"the Business stuff" ?
You mean TheSmarty ranting about the cost of an espresso machine ?
THAT is what you consider talking about "the Business stuff" ?
Links to Foundry 42 financial and business records. THAT is "the Business stuff". Not looking up the cost of lamps online. The UK part you can read online.
There is - to my knowledge - no financial and business information available about the US part of CIG/RSI. Which makes all talk about "the Business stuff" speculation only. And i have posted my own speculation here several times.
Speculating is fine. But it should not be presented as "facts",
Have fun
Perhaps crowdfunded game developers should be forced to work 12-hour days while seated on old packing crates and using refurbished CRT monitors... and take their holidays AFTER the game is finished !
Everybody's a CEO on the internet, and every one of them has more business savvy than Carl Icahn.
Agains we will all get to see what is what and no matter what both sides will claim they were right. Short of of course them disappearing to a country with no extradition to any of the countries that might want to do so.
And to cover that, he first employs hundreds of people and creates a game and waits several years ... all to confuse his hunters, I am sure.
Have fun
His escape plan is so elaborate and drawn-out that there will be no money left to steal by the time he makes the break, lol
They will release something. I said that a long time ago. At will at best be a pay to win borefest that will be trashed by 90% of the gamer population. The other 10% which includes you and the other usual suspects will treat it like its the second coming. Basically how Kano treats Archeage.
At worst it will be a broken and bugged mess that is also pay to win or in the very least tries to sell anything and everything it can to fund some rudimentary fixes. There might possibly be an update or two (with stuff they actually did work on but didnt finish) and then the next campaign will start for the expansion which more than likely will take 3 or 4 years after announcement to complete in a similar broken and disastrous form.
We wont know, I might not live long enough to see it myself. But something someday will eventually get released they try to pass off as their original vision. But like I said not many people are going to buy into it.
me jokes, or am i?
Rob Manuel
Well, first off, you brought logic to a SC thread. Here, only literal interpretations matter. Attempting to apply any sort of logic is an exercise in futility. Please keep that in mind and carry on!
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Love the examples, but working 12-hour days provides diminishing returns. Also, you're effectively paying for people to work when they are least efficient (after working for 8 hours already). The reality of crunch time is that it's VERY expensive and VERY inefficient.
Also, it should be mentioned that a 300 person team doesn't necessarily get things done faster, either. Again, it only adds additional layers on complexity, essentially requiring you to spend considerably more in order to achieve marginal gains.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Every supporter here tries to SPIN everything SAID or NOT said insot some bed of roses or give an argument that suggests these guys are doing (fill in the best case scebnario you can think of) with this game or the money.
When every bit of VISIBLE 'evidence' shows the exact opposite.
How is that logical in the least?
This game has 1.5 million backers or citizens (again a spin job) yet they have at best 6500 people watching their live stream (that is actually semi entertaining and really does make the game appear better than it is). But its still an 8 man instance with 4 on 4 teams, that anyone could do in any other 'survival' game out there. Although not in space and not with armor that is just for show. Although I dont think Miscreated armor has stats either. So that is a definite case of the players inventing something in the game world (what there is of it) and making the best of it. Oh and the giveaways they have had.
So while that sound like I am giving a negative spin, it isnt really it is simply citing what I have seen with my own two eyes. The comments on the stream and the streamers is opinion but actually theyre helping to hype this turd pretty well. But I am sure they were all compensated as well as getting a free trip there (with backer money to be sure). So theyre obligated to I supposed. Assumption but more than likely truth. I am sure we will here eventually if they were paid, compensated or received a free trip to Europe at some time.
Now tonight is the HUGE event. I guess in like 2,5 hrs we will see the master of spin there. People can take what they want out of what is said but I suspect in a conference like this they want to be SHOWN something, and I would hope more would expect more than a cinematic movie, and be extremely disappointed if that is all they saw. But then again they had dozens if not hundred of hours of people actually playing Star Marine (on some engine) and we know where that is a year later. So sometimes seeing isnt even worth believing wit these guys.
There are just way too many negatives surrounding this whole project to believe what they simply say, and half of what you even see. But seeing something tangible would at least be something that didnt have ot be spun, and while detractors could bring up Star marine and the other stuff they have shown and not delivered, and they wouldnt be overly negative in doing so, but the supporters could at least have something they could see to think about.
OK! Visible evidence, no. There isn't isn't. Visible evidence would be a lawsuit. AGAIN!!! And I already said this to you once, so I don't know if you have a short attention span or if you're just willfully ignorant, I contacted the Los Angeles DCBA personally, and there are no open, formal, investigations. While they claim that they have received claims with regards to CIG, these claims are generally handled informally.
Your argument is all based on observations without any sort of comparable supporting evidence.
Yes, SC has 1.5 million backers (or so they say). There are plenty of backers which don't even play the game at the moment. I have been a backer since KS and I have been in my hanger. That's it. Secondly, I don't watch any streams at all. Also, there have been plenty of people on here to tell you that as well. What percentage of people actually watch these live streams? Which games have the highest viewership? How does SC compare to similarly-populated games? How many people actually play SC right now? See? Lots of data that you completely ignore. For all you know, that 6500 could actually be substantial in comparison to other titles of it's size.
There are too many negatives surrounding the game, but they are mostly negatives that are manufactured by people who nothing to back it up. Honestly, DS probably led out with some VERY damning technical information. Once those were squashed, though, there has been, quite literally, nothing technical about the game that raised concerns. Instead he just invalidated himself as any sort of expert source. Honestly, I wish they would do a follow-up with that Ascent dev. He had a LOT of really cool technical insights.
As far as hype goes, would it change you're mind about the whole situation if he got up there and started flinging copies of SC and Star Marine into the crowd? Probably not. You'd probably just say it's probably marketing, or it's probably a POS. Right? I mean you're not really that objective. Again, you claim to be. Then you use neat and nice little diversionary tactics like "I know this sounds negative, but...." to make it sound like you're being objective, but you're really not. That's fine, though. I'm just saying, don't act like you're some ambassador of neutrality and then offer zero objective views. Honestly, short of him getting up there and shooting rainbows out of his ass, I don't really see anything he has to say changing anyone's mind. Period.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
But i do not see this happening. Q2 2017 is more realistic.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I also find it hard to believe tat with all the hype and expectations that backers (specifically you) have only gone into your hanger during the 3 years the game has been available to 'play'. Now people who never had any intention of playing and just stockpiled ships to sell later , MAYBE but not anyone who actually bought into the game with the goal to actually own it and play it.
So I dont believe that comment.
Ok, so I'll agree with you on SQ42. I mean, apparently, they moved a huge chunk of their team over to that. Soooooooooo, yeah.
As far as not playing the game, dude! I've been testing software and betas for probably 20 years now. I've tried my hand at testing, design, development and I even did a stint on the business end because for whatever reason people liked me, which my personality profile disagrees with. Oh! And I owned a review website for a while that I ran with some friends. Since I relegated that site to nothing but spitting out feeds, SC is probably as close to a beta as I have gotten. Honestly, I'm happy some are still quite enamored with the whole idea of getting into something early, but I'd much rather see the finished project now. Call me crazy, but seeing all the insides of a game before it's released kinda ruins it for me. Actually, that's a lie, I did actually play Grim Dawn for like an hour while it was in EA. I haven't gone back to it yet, though. See what I mean?
It's not that much of a stretch. Also, I value my time much more now, so I'd rather not invest hundreds of hours into something that will inevitably be deleted, just for me to start all over again.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------