But I know if you put out great products, the rest usually takes care of itself somehow. And if you put out crap, then that tends to take care of itself too.
Tell that to betamax. Or to Symbolics and the Lisp Machine.....
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Well your opinion is not popular by any means. Here's yet another article.
"AMD's investors aren't happy about that idea, since both offerings could dilute the value of the 795.56 million currently outstanding shares by as much as 18%. However, the dilutive effect on valuations shouldn't be severe, since AMD stock is still fairly cheap at 1.4 times sales."
<snip>
Doubt it will bother AMD. They are simply taking advantage of the demand for their shares to raise some new money. Which will replace their revolving credit facility and then some.
If investors feel they have a gripe they can try and replace the board but given the recent rise in the price of the stock I can't see anyone making a case for "bad management" so I think that would be tough. Short term speculators though - they may well be unhappy though.
The $450M of new debt is simply refinancing $450M of old debt.
To the degree that there is any news about AMD's financial condition here, it's in the premium they had to pay in higher interest rates to compensate for the possibility that they won't be able to repay the loans. For example, if you think there's a 20% chance that a loan won't be repaid, this can be compensated for by demanding 25% more money as repayment, which can be pro-rated into a higher interest rate. If you think there's a 50% chance you won't be repaid, you demand double the repayment of what it would be if you were guaranteed to be repaid. As the chance of repayment gets too small, you end up having to demand such usurious interest rates that even if everything goes well for the company, they still can't repay the loan, and the company ends up unable to borrow money.
However, even if you were 100% certain that a loan would be repaid, you'd still want interest on your money. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar 10 years from now. So the risk premium depends not just on the interest rate AMD is paying, but how that compares to what the interest rate would be for something guaranteed to be repaid. And that can depend on a whole lot of factors, so I have no idea what it is.
Interest rates are an interesting thing, particularly when you get into the realm of negative interest rates, then things start to go a bit crazy
Yea I found something today explaining the benefits from the move. They saved 50 million a year from the interest. Basically they did refinance at a lower rate so they don't have to pay as much. The reason it was such a bold move is because they knew it would cost investors and cause stock to drop drastically. They are banking on their next 2 quarters to bring it back up.
The problem is this move hit them a lot harder then anticipated. They went from being worth 5.84 Billion to 4.27 Billion in just 1 week. I believe they will bounce back but it might take longer then they first anticipated.
The smartest question to be asking is when to buy the stock back? The quarter will end on 9-30 and if they pulled in enough this quarter it will end up climbing again and will not stop. However if this quarter isn't as much as necessary we will see another 3 months of it slowly going down untill they show a strong positive. So the time to grab all the shares will be either 9-30 or 12-31.
I'm leaning more towards 9-30 because I don't believe they would have made a move like this unless they were above projections. Unless they needed money to hit those figures and we didn't know it. If that is the case they are months behind.
AMD will be fine. Xbox One S and the PS4 Pro both use amd processor and amd rx 480 gpu. They will easily recover, especially now that the newer amd cpus have multi threading making them a cheaper better alternative to intel.
AMD will be fine. Xbox One S and the PS4 Pro both use amd processor and amd rx 480 gpu. They will easily recover, especially now that the newer amd cpus have multi threading making them a cheaper better alternative to intel.
I'm eager to see how much the multi-threading helps with the performance.
Intel's initial version of Hyperthreading was only about 10% improvement (performance of code run on a virtualized HT core vs a real independant core). Their current implementation is closer to 40%.
AMD will be fine. Xbox One S and the PS4 Pro both use amd processor and amd rx 480 gpu. They will easily recover, especially now that the newer amd cpus have multi threading making them a cheaper better alternative to intel.
I'm eager to see how much the multi-threading helps with the performance.
Intel's initial version of Hyperthreading was only about 10% improvement (performance of code run on a virtualized HT core vs a real independant core). Their current implementation is closer to 40%.
Sorry but this will not affect current situation at all. Considering they have been putting the amd processors in xbox and ps4's for over a year already.
You know the more I look into this the more it looks like a stupid move. They increased the notes from 450 million to 700 million since this thread started. Which is going to hit the stock even harder. AMD is really sticking their neck out there to get chopped right off. This isn't cocky its just stupid. They are banking on the fact that Intel and Nvidia doesn't have anything up their sleeve. That isn't a good thing to bank on. AMD needed a ton more money for something. Now they are indebt to a 8$ a share stock price. You honestly think that Intel and Nvidia are going to lie down and let this happen?
AMD will be fine. Xbox One S and the PS4 Pro both use amd processor and amd rx 480 gpu. They will easily recover, especially now that the newer amd cpus have multi threading making them a cheaper better alternative to intel.
I'm eager to see how much the multi-threading helps with the performance.
Intel's initial version of Hyperthreading was only about 10% improvement (performance of code run on a virtualized HT core vs a real independant core). Their current implementation is closer to 40%.
Sorry but this will not affect current situation at all. Considering they have been putting the amd processors in xbox and ps4's for over a year already.
You know the more I look into this the more it looks like a stupid move. They increased the notes from 450 million to 700 million since this thread started. <Snip>
This is just increasing the amount of the refinancing part - not connected to the rights issue. Debt won't change : $2B + $700M - $700M. So still $2B (nominally).
Presumably the feedback / advice they have had is that the $450M they wanted to borrow was "over-subscribed" - so seen as a solid company to lend money to - and that they could refinance more at a lower interest rate.
AMD will be fine. Xbox One S and the PS4 Pro both use amd processor and amd rx 480 gpu. They will easily recover, especially now that the newer amd cpus have multi threading making them a cheaper better alternative to intel.
I'm eager to see how much the multi-threading helps with the performance.
Intel's initial version of Hyperthreading was only about 10% improvement (performance of code run on a virtualized HT core vs a real independant core). Their current implementation is closer to 40%.
Sorry but this will not affect current situation at all. Considering they have been putting the amd processors in xbox and ps4's for over a year already.
Zen isn't in anything yet
But the console market already belonged to them. So they already reaped the benefits of it and now its just regular income. If they just got the console deal like 2 months ago then this would be big news but since they already been doing this for over a year its not going to suddenly boost their sales. No more then it already has. The big boost to their sales is going to come from taking away Intel and Nvidia's market. Which is PC and Mobile.
AMD will be fine. Xbox One S and the PS4 Pro both use amd processor and amd rx 480 gpu. They will easily recover, especially now that the newer amd cpus have multi threading making them a cheaper better alternative to intel.
I'm eager to see how much the multi-threading helps with the performance.
Intel's initial version of Hyperthreading was only about 10% improvement (performance of code run on a virtualized HT core vs a real independant core). Their current implementation is closer to 40%.
Sorry but this will not affect current situation at all. Considering they have been putting the amd processors in xbox and ps4's for over a year already.
Zen isn't in anything yet
But the console market already belonged to them. So they already reaped the benefits of it and now its just regular income. If they just got the console deal like 2 months ago then this would be big news but since they already been doing this for over a year its not going to suddenly boost their sales. No more then it already has. The big boost to their sales is going to come from taking away Intel and Nvidia's market. Which is PC and Mobile.
Neither Intel nor Nvidia are significant players in mobile. If you meant laptops, discrete video cards have been disappearing from laptops over the course of the last several years, and it's likely just a matter of time before AMD and Nvidia decide it's not worth the bother to even offer discrete video cards for laptops.
AMD will be fine. Xbox One S and the PS4 Pro both use amd processor and amd rx 480 gpu. They will easily recover, especially now that the newer amd cpus have multi threading making them a cheaper better alternative to intel.
I'm eager to see how much the multi-threading helps with the performance.
Intel's initial version of Hyperthreading was only about 10% improvement (performance of code run on a virtualized HT core vs a real independant core). Their current implementation is closer to 40%.
Sorry but this will not affect current situation at all. Considering they have been putting the amd processors in xbox and ps4's for over a year already.
Zen isn't in anything yet
But the console market already belonged to them. So they already reaped the benefits of it and now its just regular income. If they just got the console deal like 2 months ago then this would be big news but since they already been doing this for over a year its not going to suddenly boost their sales. No more then it already has. The big boost to their sales is going to come from taking away Intel and Nvidia's market. Which is PC and Mobile.
They got PS4 Pro, XBox Scorpio and new Nintendo (real console as far as rumored) contracts. If you think they just fall in their lap.....Also they won Apple contract, Zen has already won sonr supercomputer contracts... ... ...
And yeah bith NVidia and Intel failed miserably in mobile because they are not dealing with stoopid customers they can overcharge and oversell their products like they do with their CPUs/GPUs.
AMD will be fine. Xbox One S and the PS4 Pro both use amd processor and amd rx 480 gpu. They will easily recover, especially now that the newer amd cpus have multi threading making them a cheaper better alternative to intel.
I'm eager to see how much the multi-threading helps with the performance.
Intel's initial version of Hyperthreading was only about 10% improvement (performance of code run on a virtualized HT core vs a real independant core). Their current implementation is closer to 40%.
Sorry but this will not affect current situation at all. Considering they have been putting the amd processors in xbox and ps4's for over a year already.
Zen isn't in anything yet
But the console market already belonged to them. So they already reaped the benefits of it and now its just regular income. If they just got the console deal like 2 months ago then this would be big news but since they already been doing this for over a year its not going to suddenly boost their sales. No more then it already has. The big boost to their sales is going to come from taking away Intel and Nvidia's market. Which is PC and Mobile.
They got PS4 Pro, XBox Scorpio and new Nintendo (real console as far as rumored) contracts. If you think they just fall in their lap.....Also they won Apple contract, Zen has already won sonr supercomputer contracts... ... ...
And yeah bith NVidia and Intel failed miserably in mobile because they are not dealing with stoopid customers they can overcharge and oversell their products like they do with their CPUs/GPUs.
Again speaking of contracts they already had doesn't suddenly increase their sales figures. It only keeps them going at the same pace. AMD must produce a lot more then they have in the past. Like 5x more and that console list isn't going to give them any boosts except the Nintendo deal if they are going with the AMD cpu's this time. Considering that Nintendo was already using AMD's gpu's. The Apple and supercomputer contracts will produce them more money though and this is good.
And there is just as many people saying they lost that Nintendo deal. Which would result in a bit of money they need to make up for.
AMD is set for an explosion on this news. I acquired 2000 @ 3 and my due diligence indicates this should be running 12-13. On its contracts with Microsoft and PlayStation to provide the GPU's for the Scorpio and Pro. Not to mention LiquidVR and its upcoming forray into a gpu contained VR headset. Paying off your debt early is not a bad thing ever.
AMD will be fine. Xbox One S and the PS4 Pro both use amd processor and amd rx 480 gpu. They will easily recover, especially now that the newer amd cpus have multi threading making them a cheaper better alternative to intel.
I'm eager to see how much the multi-threading helps with the performance.
Intel's initial version of Hyperthreading was only about 10% improvement (performance of code run on a virtualized HT core vs a real independant core). Their current implementation is closer to 40%.
Sorry but this will not affect current situation at all. Considering they have been putting the amd processors in xbox and ps4's for over a year already.
Zen isn't in anything yet
But the console market already belonged to them. So they already reaped the benefits of it and now its just regular income. If they just got the console deal like 2 months ago then this would be big news but since they already been doing this for over a year its not going to suddenly boost their sales. No more then it already has. The big boost to their sales is going to come from taking away Intel and Nvidia's market. Which is PC and Mobile.
Neither Intel nor Nvidia are significant players in mobile. If you meant laptops, discrete video cards have been disappearing from laptops over the course of the last several years, and it's likely just a matter of time before AMD and Nvidia decide it's not worth the bother to even offer discrete video cards for laptops.
Agreed. And extrapolating forward the same for PCs.
AMD is set for an explosion on this news. I acquired 2000 @ 3 and my due diligence indicates this should be running 12-13. On its contracts with Microsoft and PlayStation to provide the GPU's for the Scorpio and Pro. Not to mention LiquidVR and its upcoming forray into a gpu contained VR headset. Paying off your debt early is not a bad thing ever.
Why exactly are they going to suddenly make more money from an existing resource? I really can't figure that out.
AMD will be fine. Xbox One S and the PS4 Pro both use amd processor and amd rx 480 gpu. They will easily recover, especially now that the newer amd cpus have multi threading making them a cheaper better alternative to intel.
I'm eager to see how much the multi-threading helps with the performance.
Intel's initial version of Hyperthreading was only about 10% improvement (performance of code run on a virtualized HT core vs a real independant core). Their current implementation is closer to 40%.
Sorry but this will not affect current situation at all. Considering they have been putting the amd processors in xbox and ps4's for over a year already.
Zen isn't in anything yet
But the console market already belonged to them. So they already reaped the benefits of it and now its just regular income. If they just got the console deal like 2 months ago then this would be big news but since they already been doing this for over a year its not going to suddenly boost their sales. No more then it already has. The big boost to their sales is going to come from taking away Intel and Nvidia's market. Which is PC and Mobile.
They got PS4 Pro, XBox Scorpio and new Nintendo (real console as far as rumored) contracts. If you think they just fall in their lap.....Also they won Apple contract, Zen has already won sonr supercomputer contracts... ... ...
And yeah bith NVidia and Intel failed miserably in mobile because they are not dealing with stoopid customers they can overcharge and oversell their products like they do with their CPUs/GPUs.
Again speaking of contracts they already had doesn't suddenly increase their sales figures. It only keeps them going at the same pace. AMD must produce a lot more then they have in the past. Like 5x more and that console list isn't going to give them any boosts except the Nintendo deal if they are going with the AMD cpu's this time. Considering that Nintendo was already using AMD's gpu's. The Apple and supercomputer contracts will produce them more money though and this is good.
And there is just as many people saying they lost that Nintendo deal. Which would result in a bit of money they need to make up for.
They didnt have those contracts. In fact noone knew about new consoles until not long ago and AMD winning those contratcs IS a big news. And yes new consoles increase sales figures just like old ones did.
So if you really want to see how much new PS4 contract brings in watch financial reports when they start logging those sales, probably Q42016
AMD will be fine. Xbox One S and the PS4 Pro both use amd processor and amd rx 480 gpu. They will easily recover, especially now that the newer amd cpus have multi threading making them a cheaper better alternative to intel.
I'm eager to see how much the multi-threading helps with the performance.
Intel's initial version of Hyperthreading was only about 10% improvement (performance of code run on a virtualized HT core vs a real independant core). Their current implementation is closer to 40%.
Sorry but this will not affect current situation at all. Considering they have been putting the amd processors in xbox and ps4's for over a year already.
Zen isn't in anything yet
But the console market already belonged to them. So they already reaped the benefits of it and now its just regular income. If they just got the console deal like 2 months ago then this would be big news but since they already been doing this for over a year its not going to suddenly boost their sales. No more then it already has. The big boost to their sales is going to come from taking away Intel and Nvidia's market. Which is PC and Mobile.
They got PS4 Pro, XBox Scorpio and new Nintendo (real console as far as rumored) contracts. If you think they just fall in their lap.....Also they won Apple contract, Zen has already won sonr supercomputer contracts... ... ...
And yeah bith NVidia and Intel failed miserably in mobile because they are not dealing with stoopid customers they can overcharge and oversell their products like they do with their CPUs/GPUs.
Again speaking of contracts they already had doesn't suddenly increase their sales figures. It only keeps them going at the same pace. AMD must produce a lot more then they have in the past. Like 5x more and that console list isn't going to give them any boosts except the Nintendo deal if they are going with the AMD cpu's this time. Considering that Nintendo was already using AMD's gpu's. The Apple and supercomputer contracts will produce them more money though and this is good.
And there is just as many people saying they lost that Nintendo deal. Which would result in a bit of money they need to make up for.
They didnt have those contracts. In fact noone knew about new consoles until not long ago and AMD winning those contratcs IS a big news. And yes new consoles increase sales figures just like old ones did.
So if you really want to see how much new PS4 contract brings in watch financial reports when they start logging those sales, probably Q42016
The ps4 and xbox one both have AMD chips. They have both been out for 3 years now. I don't expect the launch of the new consoles to magically be a lot higher then they have always been. And don't expect AMD to magically make a lot more money from them. They renewed the contracts is all they did. So its not any kind of extra income its just another console launch. Yes they will get initial boost like they do every time a console launches. But its the same customers base and its not suddenly increasing or exploding in any way. Sales must increase a lot for AMD and this is only upkeep not increase.
They didn't just win the XBox and PS contracts. They won a 3rd major contract as well that has not been announced. The announcement of the XBox One and PS4 saw AMDs stocks climb from $2.48 to $4.00. Their income increased by $200 million in 2014 during the wider release of the products. As far as sales are concerned, Do you think people want to buy a console from 2013 in 2016? Sales decrease over time. AMD has probably sold every chip used in the PS4 and XBox One in 2014. Getting another contract means another production run that may include die shrunk versions. Long term winning the console market means dedicated game developer support without investment. Right now nVidia needs to invest in developers, AMD does not simply because the developer has to work with their system.
AMD will be fine. Xbox One S and the PS4 Pro both use amd processor and amd rx 480 gpu. They will easily recover, especially now that the newer amd cpus have multi threading making them a cheaper better alternative to intel.
I'm eager to see how much the multi-threading helps with the performance.
Intel's initial version of Hyperthreading was only about 10% improvement (performance of code run on a virtualized HT core vs a real independant core). Their current implementation is closer to 40%.
Sorry but this will not affect current situation at all. Considering they have been putting the amd processors in xbox and ps4's for over a year already.
Zen isn't in anything yet
But the console market already belonged to them. So they already reaped the benefits of it and now its just regular income. If they just got the console deal like 2 months ago then this would be big news but since they already been doing this for over a year its not going to suddenly boost their sales. No more then it already has. The big boost to their sales is going to come from taking away Intel and Nvidia's market. Which is PC and Mobile.
They got PS4 Pro, XBox Scorpio and new Nintendo (real console as far as rumored) contracts. If you think they just fall in their lap.....Also they won Apple contract, Zen has already won sonr supercomputer contracts... ... ...
And yeah bith NVidia and Intel failed miserably in mobile because they are not dealing with stoopid customers they can overcharge and oversell their products like they do with their CPUs/GPUs.
Again speaking of contracts they already had doesn't suddenly increase their sales figures. It only keeps them going at the same pace. AMD must produce a lot more then they have in the past. Like 5x more and that console list isn't going to give them any boosts except the Nintendo deal if they are going with the AMD cpu's this time. Considering that Nintendo was already using AMD's gpu's. The Apple and supercomputer contracts will produce them more money though and this is good.
And there is just as many people saying they lost that Nintendo deal. Which would result in a bit of money they need to make up for.
They didnt have those contracts. In fact noone knew about new consoles until not long ago and AMD winning those contratcs IS a big news. And yes new consoles increase sales figures just like old ones did.
So if you really want to see how much new PS4 contract brings in watch financial reports when they start logging those sales, probably Q42016
The ps4 and xbox one both have AMD chips. They have both been out for 3 years now. I don't expect the launch of the new consoles to magically be a lot higher then they have always been. And don't expect AMD to magically make a lot more money from them. They renewed the contracts is all they did. So its not any kind of extra income its just another console launch. Yes they will get initial boost like they do every time a console launches. But its the same customers base and its not suddenly increasing or exploding in any way. Sales must increase a lot for AMD and this is only upkeep not increase.
So in your mind winning new contracts is not making money. mmmmmkay.
So in your mind winning new contracts is not making money. mmmmmkay.
What @filmoret alluded to is that the new business is simply an "extension" of old business. Not new "new" business.
As far as the share price goes what matters is what investors believed would happen in the future.
If investors believed the existing contracts would be extended automatically then that will have sustained the share price; if they believed otherwise it would have been marked down.
And for reasons whatever - one of which may have been these contract awards - the share price has risen this year.
Comments
Tell that to betamax. Or to Symbolics and the Lisp Machine.....
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
If investors feel they have a gripe they can try and replace the board but given the recent rise in the price of the stock I can't see anyone making a case for "bad management" so I think that would be tough. Short term speculators though - they may well be unhappy though.
The $450M of new debt is simply refinancing $450M of old debt.
Noticed the new thread title as well!
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4004935-amd-600-million-stock-450-million-convertible-note-issues-net-long-term-positives
The problem is this move hit them a lot harder then anticipated. They went from being worth 5.84 Billion to 4.27 Billion in just 1 week. I believe they will bounce back but it might take longer then they first anticipated.
Archeage EU - Nui
Intel's initial version of Hyperthreading was only about 10% improvement (performance of code run on a virtualized HT core vs a real independant core). Their current implementation is closer to 40%.
http://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/amd-announces-pricing-2016sep08.aspx
Presumably the feedback / advice they have had is that the $450M they wanted to borrow was "over-subscribed" - so seen as a solid company to lend money to - and that they could refinance more at a lower interest rate.
And yeah bith NVidia and Intel failed miserably in mobile because they are not dealing with stoopid customers they can overcharge and oversell their products like they do with their CPUs/GPUs.
They were wrong.
And there is just as many people saying they lost that Nintendo deal. Which would result in a bit of money they need to make up for.
So if you really want to see how much new PS4 contract brings in watch financial reports when they start logging those sales, probably Q42016
The announcement of the XBox One and PS4 saw AMDs stocks climb from $2.48 to $4.00. Their income increased by $200 million in 2014 during the wider release of the products. As far as sales are concerned, Do you think people want to buy a console from 2013 in 2016? Sales decrease over time. AMD has probably sold every chip used in the PS4 and XBox One in 2014. Getting another contract means another production run that may include die shrunk versions.
Long term winning the console market means dedicated game developer support without investment. Right now nVidia needs to invest in developers, AMD does not simply because the developer has to work with their system.
As far as the share price goes what matters is what investors believed would happen in the future.
If investors believed the existing contracts would be extended automatically then that will have sustained the share price; if they believed otherwise it would have been marked down.
And for reasons whatever - one of which may have been these contract awards - the share price has risen this year.