I guess. I am not sure a professionally done sandbox compares to the games you mentioned. Especially without playing it or the game even being in beta.
If WoW is basically your optimal MMORPG not sure view of any sandbox is objective.
A professionally-made sandbox wouldn't compare to the games I mentioned.
A professionally-made sandbox wouldn't be awful.
See how that works? Bad things are bad. Good things are good.
WOW isn't the "optimal" MMORPG. Being the best MMORPG we've seen so far doesn't mean that it's the best possible MMORPG.
My comments in other threads have gone into great detail of why sandbox MMORPGs have historically done worse (objectively). They neglect the most common way games are entertaining to players, and that results in fewer players enjoying them. That's a more objective viewpoint than any you're likely to have.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Lets wait for an actual gameplay "hands on" review - yeah lets wait and see what happens when marketing hype meets reality.
On paper just about every game is "amazing"
BINGO !!!
This is what is habitual here on this site,tons and tons of advertising/marketing.
When a game is good,the developer knows it,they will say "here come play our week free trial,we know we will win you over".Instead they create massive hype,buzz words using advertising/marketing to lure people into buying early access packages without even seeing the game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Not sure which games you are referring to but I don't see many that are like Dark and Light. At least superficially, we'll have to see how the combat is, exploration, etc.
Darkfall, Mortal Online, Archeage, etc. There's been a steady flow of mediocre MMORPGs for a while now.
ArcheAge is not a sandbox nor is it mediocre.
Putting ArcheAge in the same league in terms of polish and quality with DF and MO is not reasonable as, ArcheAge is without doubt a AAA game, while DF and MO are not.
You're right. ArcheAge isn't a sandbox, and it's not mediocre either. It's pretty garbage just like the rest of the asian MMO's that have come out in the last couple years - I will say it's the "best" of those games, but that's not saying much. I haven't played since a few months since launch, I gave away my founders edition to a friend. Shitty launches are shitty launches, maybe the state of the game is better now - but it's dead to me - and will likely die like every other game that suffered shitty launches. Vanguard was one of the best MMO's of it's time, shitty launch and broken promises = dead game, unless it's WoW :
D&L - who knows. It's Snail Games though, can't say they've ever had a game that's been worth a shit in my opinion - SURPRISE ME! Otherwise it's back to waiting for Pantheon and or Camelot Unchained
This another open world pvp gank fest game? I don't mind pvp, just at my own discretion like SWG where you could just flag up and go ballz deep, then stop to go check you harvesters or afk in the middle of town without worrying about some squeaker afk rolling you.
Don't we already have 10s of awful sandbox MMORPGs? Do we need another? People aren't exactly playing those other games...
Yes .. someone plz send the memo out to all Deveolpment Houses , to cease and desist all development of Sandbox MMorpgs, cause Axehilt doesnt like it ......
I actually wouldn't mind seeing the low budget, PKer games ceasing the release of more crap. But I guess there is a small market for it.
The dream of a well made and modern Sandbox World still evades us.
Lets wait for an actual gameplay "hands on" review - yeah lets wait and see what happens when marketing hype meets reality.
On paper just about every game is "amazing"
While I agree it doesn't mean we can't like what we hear. I know a few titles that hope this is just a marketing brochure!
I personally would love this to be a reality. Best part for me would be a large open sandbox that has seperate ruleset servers like they plan for. No need to hold back PvP or PvE. It's a smart move.
The game has been in dev for over 10 years - call me skeptical, but anything that's been a charlie foxtrot dev hell of this magnitude turning out well, I am just not buying it.
If it happens - it would be a first.
Snail games hasn't exactly proven to me to be capable of pulling this off, I hope they do, as I'd be playing this in a heartbeat - just after AoW their games have been pretty disappointing to me.
Again I am waiting for 3rd party "hands on" reviews before I buy into any of this hype.
When I see posts like this I always think of FFXIV..Remember that disaster :awesome:
This another open world pvp gank fest game? I don't mind pvp, just at my own discretion like SWG where you could just flag up and go ballz deep, then stop to go check you harvesters or afk in the middle of town without worrying about some squeaker afk rolling you.
I guess. I am not sure a professionally done sandbox compares to the games you mentioned. Especially without playing it or the game even being in beta.
If WoW is basically your optimal MMORPG not sure view of any sandbox is objective.
A professionally-made sandbox wouldn't compare to the games I mentioned.
A professionally-made sandbox wouldn't be awful.
See how that works? Bad things are bad. Good things are good.
WOW isn't the "optimal" MMORPG. Being the best MMORPG we've seen so far doesn't mean that it's the best possible MMORPG.
My comments in other threads have gone into great detail of why sandbox MMORPGs have historically done worse (objectively). They neglect the most common way games are entertaining to players, and that results in fewer players enjoying them. That's a more objective viewpoint than any you're likely to have.
Your comments in other threads tends to list what you find interesting and then you claim that's the "objective" standard everything should be designed around. That's not how actual objectivity works.
The rest of your argument is just a restatement of flawed logic. A "professionally made" sandbox isn't likely to happen until there is an understood standard upon which to develop such a title. That does not come without a lot of experimentation, tinkering, and subsequent iteration of many sub-standard concepts until someone strikes on a solid basis to develop a "good" title of any given genre, including sandbox titles.
This is again why you can point at the themepark genre and note the sheer volume of bad titles outstrips anything else. Because there are plenty of developers trying different things in that genre.
That's how you develop and progress towards better products. Stop saying there should be no progress.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Oh look it's the next game in line that may be exactly what we are waiting for.
I don't think anyone should ever approach a game like that. I don't believe there are many "exactly's" out there. Too many people have this perfect vision of what they want but the only way to create that perfect vision is for them to do it. Relying on others to create "the game one is waiting for" is just going to lead to disgruntled people.
In truth, what people should do is see a few things that really speak to them and accept the game for what it is, not for what it should be in one's head.
I never had that feeling, but CoE made me feel that way.. ah so romantic.. if they had $200m budget I would've said YES a thousand times but with a couple of mils you can't make me happy!
Post edited by ConstantineMerus on
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
The fact that they have the wisdom to offer PvE servers is a big plus in my opinion.
I disagree. I think SWG did it best by having optional and temporary flags. Many times when you have separate servers he PvP becomes dominated by mindless PvP driving most other pvpers.
I guess. I am not sure a professionally done sandbox compares to the games you mentioned. Especially without playing it or the game even being in beta.
If WoW is basically your optimal MMORPG not sure view of any sandbox is objective.
A professionally-made sandbox wouldn't compare to the games I mentioned.
A professionally-made sandbox wouldn't be awful.
See how that works? Bad things are bad. Good things are good.
WOW isn't the "optimal" MMORPG. Being the best MMORPG we've seen so far doesn't mean that it's the best possible MMORPG.
My comments in other threads have gone into great detail of why sandbox MMORPGs have historically done worse (objectively). They neglect the most common way games are entertaining to players, and that results in fewer players enjoying them. That's a more objective viewpoint than any you're likely to have.
Sandbox MMORPG have done historically worst because they have either been of a smaller era or substantially flawed games on a mechanics level and/or low budget work done by amatuer teams..
But you are comparing a professionally done sandbox to low budget messes. Eve and other online sandboxes have been successful.
Lets wait for an actual gameplay "hands on" review - yeah lets wait and see what happens when marketing hype meets reality.
On paper just about every game is "amazing"
While I agree it doesn't mean we can't like what we hear. I know a few titles that hope this is just a marketing brochure!
I personally would love this to be a reality. Best part for me would be a large open sandbox that has seperate ruleset servers like they plan for. No need to hold back PvP or PvE. It's a smart move.
The game has been in dev for over 10 years - call me skeptical, but anything that's been a charlie foxtrot dev hell of this magnitude turning out well, I am just not buying it.
If it happens - it would be a first.
Snail games hasn't exactly proven to me to be capable of pulling this off, I hope they do, as I'd be playing this in a heartbeat - just after AoW their games have been pretty disappointing to me.
Again I am waiting for 3rd party "hands on" reviews before I buy into any of this hype.
ALtho i agree on Snail games needing to "Show me" , it hasnt been in development for over 10 years , i beileve they scrapped everything in 2012 and built a entire new engine ,assets, etc .. only keeping the same spirit in mind .....I was a Settler of the orginal and played it for the 2 years it was availble and am looking forward to what SNail can do with the IP (Looks Great so far) Hopefully they dont screw this up with a terrible Cash SHop.....
This is the thing, people like to comment when they dont actually know the facts.
Snail Games aquire the rights to have the original game played in China in 2007. They even changed the name to Savage Horizon hense my forum name.
They first showed the updated game at chinajoy 2011/12 and then they decided to redo the engine hense why we haven't heard anything up until now.
This recent versión the game has been in development since 2012ish so four years.
Well that's cherry picking IMO - why not count the time since they acquired the original IP?
Game development prior to engine should count as it was clearly part of the same game project.
If they scrapped everything and started from clean slate I would agree with you.
But that didnt happen
I don't give a feck whether you think it's cherry picking those are the facts.
Dont like it then jog on pal, whether you play the game means feck all in the grand scheme of things.
But ill let the dev know why the almighty dkano(is that right lol) didn't grace them with his almighty self in there game.
And so you shouldn't but no one is asking you to. The op posted some information and used the words 'might be' not it will be.
All i know is its not some indie dev or a kickstarter project and having played Age Of Wulin(european version not the american mess) they know how to make mmo's.
Age Of Wulin wasn't perfect it has a cash shop but what mmo doesn't these days, not many.
Ill play this game on my ps4 and Age Of Wushu 2.
We will know soon because beta and release is just around the corner.
The fact that they have the wisdom to offer PvE servers is a big plus in my opinion.
I disagree. I think SWG did it best by having optional and temporary flags. Many times when you have separate servers he PvP becomes dominated by mindless PvP driving most other pvpers.
Even more so if the population is not going to be too high for a game you don't want to split the player base too much.
I agree there are disadvantages to separate servers, and alternate approaches which might be better.
I was mostly comparing it to the PVP only option most recent titles have been offering or planning to offer. (sandbox or themepark)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I guess. I am not sure a professionally done sandbox compares to the games you mentioned. Especially without playing it or the game even being in beta.
If WoW is basically your optimal MMORPG not sure view of any sandbox is objective.
A professionally-made sandbox wouldn't compare to the games I mentioned.
A professionally-made sandbox wouldn't be awful.
See how that works? Bad things are bad. Good things are good.
WOW isn't the "optimal" MMORPG. Being the best MMORPG we've seen so far doesn't mean that it's the best possible MMORPG.
My comments in other threads have gone into great detail of why sandbox MMORPGs have historically done worse (objectively). They neglect the most common way games are entertaining to players, and that results in fewer players enjoying them. That's a more objective viewpoint than any you're likely to have.
Sandbox MMORPG have done historically worst because they have either been of a smaller era or substantially flawed games on a mechanics level and/or low budget work done by amatuer teams..
But you are comparing a professionally done sandbox to low budget messes. Eve and other online sandboxes have been successful.
so that sounds like a good theroy and makes sense however I do have to ask the audience a question.
specifically which failed sandbox style MMOs can we use an example of this being widely true? (please note, one example and 'widely true' isnt going to work, several examples however might)
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Ryzom, swg, istaria , darkfall, fallen earth... i have a list of about 20 sandbox games somewhere and all of them have either faded into obscurity or been sold or closed of except eve. That is my definition of failed.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
The fact that they have the wisdom to offer PvE servers is a big plus in my opinion.
I disagree. I think SWG did it best by having optional and temporary flags. Many times when you have separate servers he PvP becomes dominated by mindless PvP driving most other pvpers.
Even more so if the population is not going to be too high for a game you don't want to split the player base too much.
I agree there are disadvantages to separate servers, and alternate approaches which might be better.
I was mostly comparing it to the PVP only option most recent titles have been offering or planning to offer. (sandbox or themepark)
Lol, if that many like PVP like many of you like to think you will not have a problem filling your PVP server.
It's a good thing they are going with alternative servers and its not just a PVP mmo. If you want that then you need to look at the other game that is coming out along side Dnl.
Comments
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
A professionally-made sandbox wouldn't be awful.
See how that works? Bad things are bad. Good things are good.
WOW isn't the "optimal" MMORPG. Being the best MMORPG we've seen so far doesn't mean that it's the best possible MMORPG.
My comments in other threads have gone into great detail of why sandbox MMORPGs have historically done worse (objectively). They neglect the most common way games are entertaining to players, and that results in fewer players enjoying them. That's a more objective viewpoint than any you're likely to have.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
This is what is habitual here on this site,tons and tons of advertising/marketing.
When a game is good,the developer knows it,they will say "here come play our week free trial,we know we will win you over".Instead they create massive hype,buzz words using advertising/marketing to lure people into buying early access packages without even seeing the game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
D&L - who knows. It's Snail Games though, can't say they've ever had a game that's been worth a shit in my opinion - SURPRISE ME! Otherwise it's back to waiting for Pantheon and or Camelot Unchained
But I guess there is a small market for it.
The dream of a well made and modern Sandbox World still evades us.
Once upon a time....
They stated the intent to have seperate servers.
The rest of your argument is just a restatement of flawed logic. A "professionally made" sandbox isn't likely to happen until there is an understood standard upon which to develop such a title. That does not come without a lot of experimentation, tinkering, and subsequent iteration of many sub-standard concepts until someone strikes on a solid basis to develop a "good" title of any given genre, including sandbox titles.
This is again why you can point at the themepark genre and note the sheer volume of bad titles outstrips anything else. Because there are plenty of developers trying different things in that genre.
That's how you develop and progress towards better products. Stop saying there should be no progress.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
But you are comparing a professionally done sandbox to low budget messes. Eve and other online sandboxes have been successful.
It's actually a chinese game, SnailGames are from china.
I guess you think any thing asian comes from korea.
I don't give a feck whether you think it's cherry picking those are the facts.
Dont like it then jog on pal, whether you play the game means feck all in the grand scheme of things.
But ill let the dev know why the almighty dkano(is that right lol) didn't grace them with his almighty self in there game.
I'm yawning now!
All i know is its not some indie dev or a kickstarter project and having played Age Of Wulin(european version not the american mess) they know how to make mmo's.
Age Of Wulin wasn't perfect it has a cash shop but what mmo doesn't these days, not many.
Ill play this game on my ps4 and Age Of Wushu 2.
We will know soon because beta and release is just around the corner.
I was mostly comparing it to the PVP only option most recent titles have been offering or planning to offer. (sandbox or themepark)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
specifically which failed sandbox style MMOs can we use an example of this being widely true? (please note, one example and 'widely true' isnt going to work, several examples however might)
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Lol, if that many like PVP like many of you like to think you will not have a problem filling your PVP server.
It's a good thing they are going with alternative servers and its not just a PVP mmo. If you want that then you need to look at the other game that is coming out along side Dnl.
Age Of Wushu 2.
Hype/interest for a game with an infamously bad history....
And one of the worst companies in the industry pushing it....
How about: "No".
Any (unpaid) enthusiasm for this title dies in the egg.