don't want P2W? Bring back subscriptions for MMO's
Sooner you give up hope on this the happier you will be.
I know, some indie titles are promising to be sub only, just a fast train to bankruptcy for most of them.
The world changed, there's little chance of going back.
Its hard to compete with free.
But is it really free? There have been studies that the "Ala-carte" style of games get player to actually pay more for the same game experience as a subscription.
don't want P2W? Bring back subscriptions for MMO's
You must mean subscription only as a lot of games now have both.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
don't want P2W? Bring back subscriptions for MMO's
Sooner you give up hope on this the happier you will be.
I know, some indie titles are promising to be sub only, just a fast train to bankruptcy for most of them.
The world changed, there's little chance of going back.
Its hard to compete with free.
But is it really free? There have been studies that the "Ala-carte" style of games get player to actually pay more for the same game experience as a subscription.
They get a fraction of players to pay more on average than the entire player base would on subs. The rest are generally subsidized with lessee gameplay.
I see F2P like a form of per-feature DLC. I don't argue the success of the strategy, but what does it say about the confidence in the product that is put out?
"Just incase our game sucks, no worries, it's just F2P anyway".
don't want P2W? Bring back subscriptions for MMO's
Sooner you give up hope on this the happier you will be.
I know, some indie titles are promising to be sub only, just a fast train to bankruptcy for most of them.
The world changed, there's little chance of going back.
I disagree. I think the industry is simply not willing to go out on a limb to create a game that offer what a subscription game would. People know what value looks like and will pay for it if it's really there. The problem is most games expect high returns on low investment and the only way to get that is to nickle-and-dime people in cheap (mostly mobile) P2P games.
Yes. And it will still have a shop.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
One of the more annoying and effective P2W things I saw in dragon's nest. You run through your dungeon/whatever for 45 minutes -- go fight the boss and have it down to say 10% health and you die. For 75 cents you can finish the battle and take the loot. Otherwise you can go back to town and get no exp and no loot.
A lot of the fights were pretty much set up so most people would have this choice at the end... OR have the choice two or more times....
The long time to get to the boss etc. is to increase the pain for not taking the easy route and simply paying the 75 cents because your time is worth more than 75 cents, isn't it?
One of the more annoying and effective P2W things I saw in dragon's nest. You run through your dungeon/whatever for 45 minutes -- go fight the boss and have it down to say 10% health and you die. For 75 cents you can finish the battle and take the loot. Otherwise you can go back to town and get no exp and no loot.
A lot of the fights were pretty much set up so most people would have this choice at the end... OR have the choice two or more times....
The long time to get to the boss etc. is to increase the pain for not taking the easy route and simply paying the 75 cents because your time is worth more than 75 cents, isn't it?
75+75+75+75+75+....75+75 cents for most people...
Now thats pretty sad. Yea avoid that stuff like the plague.
Heres my solution: Dont feel you have to win.....its a video game...play for fun...it isnt life or death if you lose
Many (not all) F2P companies purposefully design their cash shop around the idea that as you progress in the game, it stops being fun unless you pay. That's one of their primary ways to drive people to pay.
don't want P2W? Bring back subscriptions for MMO's
Sooner you give up hope on this the happier you will be.
I know, some indie titles are promising to be sub only, just a fast train to bankruptcy for most of them.
The world changed, there's little chance of going back.
Its hard to compete with free.
But is it really free? There have been studies that the "Ala-carte" style of games get player to actually pay more for the same game experience as a subscription.
I paid 100x more when all we had were subs options.....THe majority of players pay way less than if it was mandatory $15 a month but the whales make up for that and more
Cash shops and pay2win exist because most of you are poor and/or cheap. If everyone spent 15 bucks a month on a monthly sub the devs of games could make all the money they needed just from that. But most of you wont do that because you are poor or cheap.. Not judging just saying. So in order for game companies to make a game that doesnt go broke they have to try and get as much money as they can from the few who will pay.
If you dont like it then start supporting subscription based games. If they take off then devs in other games will take notice. But that isnt what happened the last 10 years though. The opposite occurred, no one wanted to pay for a sub.... So cash shops were the answer.
No, it breaks the immersion of the game world. Your character is suddenly a God when you in real life decide to waste your money. It has no connection to the game world.
And that teenager's character, that guy who wasted his life and dropped college to play, and whose character had become a god in a month when you would need a year or more to get to the same point, what does it do to your immersion ?
The problem is similar...
As the goblins say in World of Warcraft... "Time is money, friend!".
Cash shops and pay2win exist because most of you are poor and/or cheap. If everyone spent 15 bucks a month on a monthly sub the devs of games could make all the money they needed just from that. But most of you wont do that because you are poor or cheap.. Not judging just saying. So in order for game companies to make a game that doesnt go broke they have to try and get as much money as they can from the few who will pay.
If you dont like it then start supporting subscription based games. If they take off then devs in other games will take notice. But that isnt what happened the last 10 years though. The opposite occurred, no one wanted to pay for a sub.... So cash shops were the answer.
World of Warcraft
And yet all the WoW clones who tried to charge a sub failed and went F2p with cash shops. See my point?...... If subs were really a profitable strategy everyone would be doing them, but they arent because overall most of us as gamers are cheap with our money. Just saying...
"But I work for a living and don't have time to play for hours."
"I have a life, so I shouldn't have to compete with basement dwellers."
"I have a family and kids, and I shouldn't have to spend hours to play a game."
"If you don't like the p2w model, then maybe the genre or video games are not for you. Stop ruining it for everyone else."
"Well it works like that in the real world, so it's more realistic if whoever has the most money wins."
"Developers need to be paid, you can't expect them to work for free."
<insert next excuse here...>
Why is it more valid in your mind that time is the deciding factor.... It is a construct of your mind that makes it more valid.
While i agree that time invested should be rewarded (and it is... You do get more practice the "old fashion" way) but to be honest... Most of what people call P2W these days is just conveniences. Not really a power thing.
Cash shops and pay2win exist because most of you are poor and/or cheap. If everyone spent 15 bucks a month on a monthly sub the devs of games could make all the money they needed just from that. But most of you wont do that because you are poor or cheap.. Not judging just saying. So in order for game companies to make a game that doesnt go broke they have to try and get as much money as they can from the few who will pay.
If you dont like it then start supporting subscription based games. If they take off then devs in other games will take notice. But that isnt what happened the last 10 years though. The opposite occurred, no one wanted to pay for a sub.... So cash shops were the answer.
World of Warcraft
And yet all the WoW clones who tried to charge a sub failed and went F2p with cash shops. See my point?...... If subs were really a profitable strategy everyone would be doing them, but they arent because overall most of us as gamers are cheap with our money. Just saying...
IT isnt just the cheap factor though...many of us play several games...Theres no way we can pay $15 a month for every game we play......Also what game are we paying this extra $15 a month for that justifies it?
"But I work for a living and don't have time to play for hours."
"I have a life, so I shouldn't have to compete with basement dwellers."
"I have a family and kids, and I shouldn't have to spend hours to play a game."
"If you don't like the p2w model, then maybe the genre or video games are not for you. Stop ruining it for everyone else."
"Well it works like that in the real world, so it's more realistic if whoever has the most money wins."
"Developers need to be paid, you can't expect them to work for free."
<insert next excuse here...>
Why is it more valid in your mind that time is the deciding factor.... It is a construct of your mind that makes it more valid.
While i agree that time invested should be rewarded (and it is... You do get more practice the "old fashion" way) but to be honest... Most of what people call P2W these days is just conveniences. Not really a power thing.
But in today's society of participation trophies, entitlement mentality, cool thing to do is bash what other people spend their money on and other unproductive behaviors it's "win" because it wasn't handed to them.
P2W warrior) Why can bobthebarb have that cool cloak and I can't HE IS P2W!!!
Player 2) Dude it's cosmetic it's not P2W
P2WW) Screw you whale you are what's destroying mmorpgs
This is the mentality of these P2W warriors you ask them to name a P2W game and they will name a bunch of games that have nothing that is pay2win. They are just pissed Player 2 has something they don't.
Cash shops and pay2win exist because most of you are poor and/or cheap. If everyone spent 15 bucks a month on a monthly sub the devs of games could make all the money they needed just from that. But most of you wont do that because you are poor or cheap.. Not judging just saying. So in order for game companies to make a game that doesnt go broke they have to try and get as much money as they can from the few who will pay.
If you dont like it then start supporting subscription based games. If they take off then devs in other games will take notice. But that isnt what happened the last 10 years though. The opposite occurred, no one wanted to pay for a sub.... So cash shops were the answer.
World of Warcraft
And yet all the WoW clones who tried to charge a sub failed and went F2p with cash shops. See my point?...... If subs were really a profitable strategy everyone would be doing them, but they arent because overall most of us as gamers are cheap with our money. Just saying...
IT isnt just the cheap factor though...many of us play several games...Theres no way we can pay $15 a month for every game we play......Also what game are we paying this extra $15 a month for that justifies it?
Part of the oversaturation being kept going by free entry level.
It's one reason developers aren't making new MMORPG. An expensive difficult genre with cheap whiny players with an oversaturation of free entry level competitors. If you add up the wants of the average new generation player it doesn't really take advantage of the genre's online design.
Cash shops and pay2win exist because most of you are poor and/or cheap. If everyone spent 15 bucks a month on a monthly sub the devs of games could make all the money they needed just from that. But most of you wont do that because you are poor or cheap.. Not judging just saying. So in order for game companies to make a game that doesnt go broke they have to try and get as much money as they can from the few who will pay.
If you dont like it then start supporting subscription based games. If they take off then devs in other games will take notice. But that isnt what happened the last 10 years though. The opposite occurred, no one wanted to pay for a sub.... So cash shops were the answer.
World of Warcraft
And yet all the WoW clones who tried to charge a sub failed and went F2p with cash shops. See my point?...... If subs were really a profitable strategy everyone would be doing them, but they arent because overall most of us as gamers are cheap with our money. Just saying...
IT isnt just the cheap factor though...many of us play several games...Theres no way we can pay $15 a month for every game we play......Also what game are we paying this extra $15 a month for that justifies it?
Part of the oversaturation being kept going by free entry level.
It's one reason developers aren't making new MMORPG. An expensive difficult genre with cheap whiny players with an oversaturation of free entry level competitors. If you add up the wants of the average new generation player it doesn't really take advantage of the genre's online design.
Blasphemy with your common sense approach. Didn't you know there are no new mmorpgs because the genre is dead because bitter old school players said so...on this site even...like 100 different threads on it?
I have no problems with P2W in PvE. If I have the money but not the time why can't I spend money to be even with someone who has lots of time to play. Don't care for most PvP so that wouldn't effect me either.
pretty much. So what if that other guy is killing level 70 mobs when I am killing level 30. Most of this 'pay2win' gibberish is a red herring anyway.
All too often it doesn't actually exist. It's a tinfoil hat theory, you "could" spend $10,000 US and beat everyone out. In truth it's so batshit crazy it never happens.
I like hunting, but I have a job and don't have all day to sit in a deer stand, so why shouldn't I be able to pay to just get to the shooting? All those other hunters have an unfair advantage over me anyway because they have more free time.
I like hunting, but I have a job and don't have all day to sit in a deer stand, so why shouldn't I be able to pay to just get to the shooting? All those other hunters have an unfair advantage over me anyway because they have more free time.
Because people are stupid. They are brainwashed. Right now, pay to win has been labeled as bad and majority players accept it. We want more players, we want a lively community. So cosmetic shop is the only answer to attract more players. What important is IMMERSION. What fun being OP in a less populated mmo? i rather be shiny in cosmetic in a crowded server rather than be an OP in a daed gaem.. gg
I like hunting, but I have a job and don't have all day to sit in a deer stand, so why shouldn't I be able to pay to just get to the shooting? All those other hunters have an unfair advantage over me anyway because they have more free time.
Comments
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
"Just incase our game sucks, no worries, it's just F2P anyway".
A lot of the fights were pretty much set up so most people would have this choice at the end... OR have the choice two or more times....
The long time to get to the boss etc. is to increase the pain for not taking the easy route and simply paying the 75 cents because your time is worth more than 75 cents, isn't it?
75+75+75+75+75+....75+75 cents for most people...
If you dont like it then start supporting subscription based games. If they take off then devs in other games will take notice. But that isnt what happened the last 10 years though. The opposite occurred, no one wanted to pay for a sub.... So cash shops were the answer.
While i agree that time invested should be rewarded (and it is... You do get more practice the "old fashion" way) but to be honest... Most of what people call P2W these days is just conveniences. Not really a power thing.
This have been a good conversation
P2W warrior) Why can bobthebarb have that cool cloak and I can't HE IS P2W!!!
Player 2) Dude it's cosmetic it's not P2W
P2WW) Screw you whale you are what's destroying mmorpgs
This is the mentality of these P2W warriors you ask them to name a P2W game and they will name a bunch of games that have nothing that is pay2win. They are just pissed Player 2 has something they don't.
It's one reason developers aren't making new MMORPG. An expensive difficult genre with cheap whiny players with an oversaturation of free entry level competitors. If you add up the wants of the average new generation player it doesn't really take advantage of the genre's online design.
All too often it doesn't actually exist. It's a tinfoil hat theory, you "could" spend $10,000 US and beat everyone out. In truth it's so batshit crazy it never happens.