I have been repeatedly corpse camped at starting zones in pvp games going right back to EQ. Ultimately they weren't my cup of tea so I left.
Right and that is the issue with griefers. I'm assuming the reason you left wasn't because you couldn't hand PvP, but because you had no interest in playing the role of punching bag for a bunch of little sadists.
And that sad part is that isn't what these games are about. They are about grand scale wars and living in a dangerous environment. But you never got the main content of the game because of an initially bad experience.
That's why I have zero tolerance for these little twats. They destroy our games and game communities.
While I don't share the zeal in your disdain, I do look upon griefers with the same negative opinion. Though I think many do it out of boredom when they've spent too much of their time playing one particular game, it still isn't an excuse to act like an asshat at the expense of others' time. It's the one thing you can't earn back in life.
Occasionally I've had a lot of fun in pvp, but your right I have no real interest in just being someone else's entertainment.
edit - I can understand the boredom issue. My wife hates it when I get bored she's ultimately my go to for entertainment and well... that's none of your business . Your right, it's no excuse which is what she tells me all the time.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Which shows the point even more. There is a difference between griefing and just killing someone.
Again, who is disputing that...?
You are wrong that spawn camping is griefing though.
Just because you have no fun being killed over and over, understandably, does not mean anyone is neccessarily griefing you.
You entered a world with non-consensual PVP, you are supposed to be killed over and over anywhere in the game.That are game's rules of dog-eat-dog world.
Calling someone griefer because they do not play the game as you percieve the game should be played is mindly put, weak minded...
Which shows the point even more. There is a difference between griefing and just killing someone.
Again, who is disputing that...?
You are wrong that spawn camping is griefing though.
Just because you have no fun being killed over and over, understandably, does not mean anyone is neccessarily griefing you.
You entered a world with non-consensual PVP, you are supposed to be killed over and over anywhere in the game.That are game's rules of dog-eat-dog world.
Calling someone griefer because they do not play the game as you percieve the game should be played is mindly put, weak minded...
And then like any MMO that has allowed that, like AOC PvP server and countless others like Shadowbane...the spawn killer and other similar acts will drive people off the server or off the game and you get a dead game!
Like I said in my other post, people like you just described are self destructive of their own environment. They drive people away and kill their own server or/and game.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
I would say you are disputing it by refusing to recognize commonly accepted griefing actions like corpse camping as griefing. And the previous person who drew the drawing certainly seems unable to grasp it.
I never stated or implied that just because I didn't have fun it wasn't griefing. I never stated or implied the rules didn't allow it. I also never stated or implied that someone playing different than me is griefing. Those are all fallacious statements you have made.
I didn't say spawn camping was griefing. Actually I never mentioned that at all.
I mentioned in pve repeatedly tagging mobs/kill stealing, and killing quest givers as examples of griefing in pve. If done primarily to irritate those needing the quests then yes it is griefing. Done as a deliberate act to ruin someone else game time/experience and prevent them from playing.
Corpse camping though is griefing. It is done as a deliberate act to ruin someone else's game time/experience and prevent them from playing.
That I did or did not have fun is a side issue. It is still griefing.
Whether the rules permit it or not is a side issue. It is still griefing.
Whether you admit it or not, it is griefing.
I would say you just don't want to admit that your actions, if you are doing them, is griefing.
edit - they are the trolls of the gaming world. Done for the same purpose. To cause grief, to deliberately anger or irritate, a cheap thrill...
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Ill add this .. There is something that the griefing adds...
I spent a large portion of my gaming time fighting Reds in UO from day 1 ... Hundreds of battles .. Me and a group of 4 -5 others logged in each nite to find where the reds were camping , and went to kill them ..
To ride in and save the day .. Was pretty satisfying when folks thanked us gave us a purpose and a name in game ... Reds avoided us and feared our group ...
Without True Darkness there cannot be True Light
It's pretty common for people to enjoy playing the hero. You get ganked by a high level, shout in local about it, and suddenly the white knights are chasing the bad guy across the map.
I was an anti in UO for a long time before getting bored and going red for loot and lulz. Never did quite have the patience to get top bounty though.
@Caffynated - Ah man. I insinuated you had poor comprehension right after you told people "I'm going to draw this in crayon so it will be on a level you understand." I hope I didn't hurt your feelings you poor sweet little thing.
The point is, nobody is arguing against killing people in PvP. Nobody is arguing against non-consensual PvP. Nobody is even arguing that killing someone weaker than you makes you a griefer. What is being argued is that when you specifically go into the areas you expect to find weak targets with little reward who offer no resistance and little reward, and target those players out when you are perfectly capable of going to the areas that offer better rewards but at a bit more risk to yourself, yeah, you've essentially become the internet version of a schoolyard bully. And that makes you a weak, pathetic, 2nd rate PvPer who very rightly should be looked down on by all of us who aren't too cowardly to hang in low sec and null or whatever equivalents to those areas the game you are playing offers.
Do I need to spell this out in crayon again? You can not grief someone by PvPing in a PvP game. The devs have known since the 90s that high level players will kill low level players. If they still don't put a level limit on PvP, or downscale high level players in a low level area 20 years later, then they want this to happen. It is intended. Playing the game the way the designer intends is not in any way shape or form griefing.
The tendency to boil that down into "You just don't like PvP" or
"You hate non-consensual PvP" is a strawman argument because that isn't
what is being argued.
No, your argument here is a strawman. My argument is that you can't grief someone by PvPing in a PvP game. All allowed PvP is intended. When I've said this multiple times and even drawn it for you in crayon, and you still can't understand it, it's not me who has the comprehension problem.
Now you are changing your tune because you got called on it. Your
illustration shows someone killing someone saying "Ida best" as both
what happens and what is intended. That is broad image that applies to
all forms of PvP, and you followed it with the staement:
"Killing other players in a PvP game is not griefing. It is the intended player interaction.
Killing other player in a PvP game is not being a "a$$hole." It is the intended player interaction."
A statement I agree with under most premises.
So
either you are terrible at conveying your point, or you were acting
like those who specifically decry griefing hate all PvP, which is a
strawman.
Or you're just incapable of comprehending basic English.
Your argument would be wrong.
Griefing someone and simply killing someone are not the same thing. Griefing involves significantly more than killing. It is going out of your way to ruin someone else gameplay.
Since they aren't the same thing you absolutely can grief someone in a pvp game. Corpse camping is a common example.
If you can't understand the difference between them by now then there is no help for you.
Do I have to get my crayons out again?
Killing someone within the rules of the game is not and can not be griefing.
If you abuse some unintended feature or exploit to kill people, then sure. But within the rules of the game it's just PvP. You can not grief someone by killing them in PvP in a PvP game.
You can dislike it, but it doesn't change reality. They are playing by the intended rules of the game. If you have a problem with it, take it up with the devs or find a new game.
I have been repeatedly corpse camped at starting zones in pvp games going right back to EQ. Ultimately they weren't my cup of tea so I left.
The only people I've ever seen get corpse camped were mouthy little kids who decided to whine, bitch and be insulting after getting killed. If you're dumb enough to mouth off to somebody who can kill you at will, you're a moron and deserve what you get.
At that point they're teaching you to watch your mouth and know your place.
Which shows the point even more. There is a difference between griefing and just killing someone.
Again, who is disputing that...?
You are wrong that spawn camping is griefing though.
Just because you have no fun being killed over and over, understandably, does not mean anyone is neccessarily griefing you.
You entered a world with non-consensual PVP, you are supposed to be killed over and over anywhere in the game.That are game's rules of dog-eat-dog world.
Calling someone griefer because they do not play the game as you percieve the game should be played is mindly put, weak minded...
And then like any MMO that has allowed that, like AOC PvP server and countless others like Shadowbane...the spawn killer and other similar acts will drive people off the server or off the game and you get a dead game!
Like I said in my other post, people like you just described are self destructive of their own environment. They drive people away and kill their own server or/and game.
Shadowbane didn't die because of PvP. It died because it launched in an unplayable state and by the time they got their crap together the game was badly dated compared to more current offerings like WoW.
You couldn't even spawn camp in SB. People respawned with several minutes of invulnerability and invisibility. The lag was so bad you could hit sprint and be three miles away before you loaded on your enemy's screen. Even if you were dumb enough to get killed at your tree, you wouldn't respawn in the same place. You would be sent to the ruins somewhere far away.
Killing someone within the rules of the game CAN be considered griefing. Corpse camping is one example of this.
Just because the rules allow for it does not mean it is not griefing.
Griefing has nothing to do with the rules of the game. It is about whether the person's actions are about deliberately trying to ruin the other person's experience.
Regarding the whiny bitches statement. That may be what you have experienced, however wrong and limited it was.
edit - abusing some feature or exploiting some feature to kill people may or may not be griefing. Thats a potential bannable offense though.
Post edited by VengeSunsoar on
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Killing someone within the rules of the game CAN be considered griefing. Corpse camping is one example of this.
Just because the rules allow for it does not mean it is not griefing.
He is a victim of the law=morality mentality pushed by most modern media. Unable to separate the two and in doing so inadvertently elevating those who set the rules to the level of a literal god. Developers get to determine what is and isn't allowed. Not what is and isn't moral.
I think there is a fallacy about law equals morality or appeal to law, or something to that effect.
edit - and yes I realize we are getting close to the naturalistic and moralistic fallacies (those 2 are confusing).
However we are not stating that the rules should be changed or at least I'm not. If that's the game you want to play, go for it, if the rules allow it, have fun. It's still griefing.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I think there is a fallacy about law equals morality or appeal to law, or something to that effect.
edit - and yes I realize we are getting close to the naturalistic and moralistic fallacies (those 2 are confusing).
However we are not stating that the rules should be changed or at least I'm not. If that's the game you want to play, go for it, if the rules allow it, have fun. It's still griefing.
yeah, plenty of games to play for that. I won't play those MMOs, or far less likely to anyway, but there are people who like that experience. Its not like someone is being held at gun point and forced to play it lol. Well...maybe the gold spammers are being held at gun point...but...that is almost a whole nother topic lol
But the thread IS (or started out anyway) about MMOs that promote griefing. Guess somewhere in the thread it got turned into what griefing is lol. Hopefully the links above clarify things though.
(edit: As a sidenote. I do like PvP, I actually like PvP in EVE as I find it pretty fair and balanced. EVE has definite griefers imo, but mostly its actually probably my favorite PvP out of the sandbox games. Black Desert Online PvP isn't annoying to me, despite it being item based, but I don't have much experience with BDO to say much more than that.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Killing someone within the rules of the game CAN be considered griefing. Corpse camping is one example of this.
Just because the rules allow for it does not mean it is not griefing.
Griefing has nothing to do with the rules of the game. It is about whether the person's actions are about deliberately trying to ruin the other person's experience.
Regarding the whiny bitches statement. That may be what you have experienced, however wrong and limited it was.
Saying the same ignorant thing again doesn't make it true.
There's nothing inherently wrong with corpse camping. They're effectively just extending your combat experience.
If you weren't such an intensely unlikable person, they wouldn't be doing it to you in the first place. Being punished for being an insufferable little twit is healthy. It builds character.
Of the two of us the only person who is saying anything insulting is you.
And right back at you, "Saying the same ignorant thing again doesn't make it true."
You might think there is nothing inherently wrong with corpse camping. Most others do. Most others find that actions that significantly restrict others ability to play and especially done primarily to grief, to irritate... they do find something inherently wrong with that.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I think there is a fallacy about law equals morality or appeal to law, or something to that effect.
edit - and yes I realize we are getting close to the naturalistic and moralistic fallacies (those 2 are confusing).
However we are not stating that the rules should be changed or at least I'm not. If that's the game you want to play, go for it, if the rules allow it, have fun. It's still griefing.
That is not what I am stating either. I'm just pointing out his tendency to equate the two.
"A griefer is a player in a multiplayervideo game who deliberately irritates and angers other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways."
"unintended ways"
You could say that corpse camping in EQ 15+ years ago was griefing, because devs hadn't fully developed the genre at that point. In 2017 if they don't have ways to deal with it, then it is intended to be the way it is with some rare exceptions.
VengeSunsoar said: Corpse camping though is griefing.
An argument that spawn/corpse w/e camping does not imply intention to grief is sound.
If you want to dispute it, you will need to bring more than blanket statements, argument ad populum, morality and alike fallacies...
There you go, and thats the problem highlighted for you.
As for the first paragraph, an argument that spawn/corpse w/e camping does not imply intention to grief is not sound either, it just as easily works both ways so wasn't worth mentioning in the first place.
Which leaves us with just the second paragraph, now I know why you defend the moral low ground, you had no high ground to begin with. Thanks for clearing that up, at least you are getting honest now.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
lahnmir said: There you go, and thats the problem highlighted for you.
As for the first paragraph, an argument that spawn/corpse w/e camping does not imply intention to grief is not sound either, it just as easily works both ways so wasn't worth mentioning in the first place.
Which leaves us with just the second paragraph, now I know why you defend the moral low ground, you had no high ground to begin with. Thanks for clearing that up, at least you are getting honest now.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
...empty rhetorics with poor attempt to bring it down to personal level.
Killing someone within the rules of the game CAN be considered griefing. Corpse camping is one example of this.
Just because the rules allow for it does not mean it is not griefing.
Griefing has nothing to do with the rules of the game. It is about whether the person's actions are about deliberately trying to ruin the other person's experience.
Regarding the whiny bitches statement. That may be what you have experienced, however wrong and limited it was.
Saying the same ignorant thing again doesn't make it true.
There's nothing inherently wrong with corpse camping. They're effectively just extending your combat experience.
If you weren't such an intensely unlikable person, they wouldn't be doing it to you in the first place. Being punished for being an insufferable little twit is healthy. It builds character.
Frankly, they sound like good Samaritans to me.
Oh, you're not actually arguing a point, you're just being a troll.
You could've just said so up front, would've saved everyone a lot of time.
lahnmir said: There you go, and thats the problem highlighted for you.
As for the first paragraph, an argument that spawn/corpse w/e camping does not imply intention to grief is not sound either, it just as easily works both ways so wasn't worth mentioning in the first place.
Which leaves us with just the second paragraph, now I know why you defend the moral low ground, you had no high ground to begin with. Thanks for clearing that up, at least you are getting honest now.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
...empty rhetorics with poor attempt to bring it down to personal level.
Nope, that doesn't work either.
Actually the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
lahnmir said: There you go, and thats the problem highlighted for you.
As for the first paragraph, an argument that spawn/corpse w/e camping does not imply intention to grief is not sound either, it just as easily works both ways so wasn't worth mentioning in the first place.
Which leaves us with just the second paragraph, now I know why you defend the moral low ground, you had no high ground to begin with. Thanks for clearing that up, at least you are getting honest now.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
...empty rhetorics with poor attempt to bring it down to personal level.
Nope, that doesn't work either.
I don't have to do anything to bring it down to a personal level, you've shown your true colors. You did it yourself and the only thing empty is your reasoning when it comes to defending people that act like jerks 'just because they can' or even worse 'because that is the way the game is intended to be played.'
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I don't think any game has promoted griefing, but many have mechanics that unintentionally enable griefing.
I would argue that CCP did with Eve, they installed it as part of the game, I also assert that they made you well aware of this prior to you even loading in the game. Griefing as part of the game is not a bad thing, buyer beware this game is designed to let you mess with each other in breathtakingly spectacular ways. So, when I say Eve promoted griefing, I stand by that I also stand by; you are a moron if you go to this game thinking you can just hang out and mine for years with no one messing with you.
Also, for the record, I do not consider PvP to be griefing. Taking others enjoyment of the game away on purpose is. If you play an OWPVP game you accept that as part of the deal you may end up dead. However, that does not mean you should have to succumb to relentless harassment. I know many people that PvP and very few of them will stalk or grief another player over and over. Most will get a kill and move along especially if the fight was too easy. Of course, we consider ourselves to be true PvPers, not trolls/griefers/cyber-bullies. In my opinion, if you are not seeking a challenge, you aren't pvping, you are one of the above.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
No, you engage them because there are no reprecussions like in Real Life, it is your online Safe Space to act out, those are your 'reasons.' If you are an a$$hole in RL you will lose friends, jobs or get punched into tomorrow. Here you can do whatever you want, its actually a powerful motivation, very cowardly too but a motivation nevertheless.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Most people can actually tell the difference between reality and fantasy, realizing that it is just a game.
On the other hand, one could actually doubt your ability to tell the difference when you are taking it so seriously that you are linking in-game behavior to real life behavior.
Well, when you're acting like an a$$hole you are acting like an a$$hole, it doesn't matter where you do it. There are no special circumstances where that is ok.
The only fallacy here is you trying to make a distinction and coming up with lame excuses to make your behaviour acceptable while in reality you are just being that, an a$$hole, the internet is just the place you chose to be one.
And why that gets to me? You're trying to make online bullying ok with cowardly reasons like 'the game allows it.' Because that is what grieving is in this case, online bullying, this had nothing to do with PVPing and can happen in a PVE setting too.
Now, LOL your frigging way out of this one, I bet you STILL can't see the difference. And that's ok, you'll be an ass online, I'll be a nice guy. We'll never meet in those many high quality OWPVP games you spend your time in... Ohh wait...
/Cheers, Lahnmir
I'm going to draw this in crayon so it will be on a level you understand.
Killing other players in a PvP game is not griefing. It is the intended player interaction.
Killing other player in a PvP game is not being a "a$$hole." It is the intended player interaction.
Are you seriously this dense? Do you have ANY idea what people are discussing in this thread? You're like a child wandering into the middle of a conversation you know nothing about.
STFU Donny.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Comments
edit - I can understand the boredom issue. My wife hates it when I get bored she's ultimately my go to for entertainment and well... that's none of your business
You are wrong that spawn camping is griefing though.
Just because you have no fun being killed over and over, understandably, does not mean anyone is neccessarily griefing you.
You entered a world with non-consensual PVP, you are supposed to be killed over and over anywhere in the game.That are game's rules of dog-eat-dog world.
Calling someone griefer because they do not play the game as you percieve the game should be played is mindly put, weak minded...
Like I said in my other post, people like you just described are self destructive of their own environment. They drive people away and kill their own server or/and game.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
I never stated or implied that just because I didn't have fun it wasn't griefing. I never stated or implied the rules didn't allow it. I also never stated or implied that someone playing different than me is griefing. Those are all fallacious statements you have made.
I didn't say spawn camping was griefing. Actually I never mentioned that at all.
I mentioned in pve repeatedly tagging mobs/kill stealing, and killing quest givers as examples of griefing in pve. If done primarily to irritate those needing the quests then yes it is griefing. Done as a deliberate act to ruin someone else game time/experience and prevent them from playing.
Corpse camping though is griefing. It is done as a deliberate act to ruin someone else's game time/experience and prevent them from playing.
That I did or did not have fun is a side issue. It is still griefing.
Whether the rules permit it or not is a side issue. It is still griefing.
Whether you admit it or not, it is griefing.
I would say you just don't want to admit that your actions, if you are doing them, is griefing.
edit - they are the trolls of the gaming world. Done for the same purpose. To cause grief, to deliberately anger or irritate, a cheap thrill...
I was an anti in UO for a long time before getting bored and going red for loot and lulz. Never did quite have the patience to get top bounty though.
Killing someone within the rules of the game is not and can not be griefing.
If you abuse some unintended feature or exploit to kill people, then sure. But within the rules of the game it's just PvP. You can not grief someone by killing them in PvP in a PvP game.
You can dislike it, but it doesn't change reality. They are playing by the intended rules of the game. If you have a problem with it, take it up with the devs or find a new game.
The only people I've ever seen get corpse camped were mouthy little kids who decided to whine, bitch and be insulting after getting killed. If you're dumb enough to mouth off to somebody who can kill you at will, you're a moron and deserve what you get.
At that point they're teaching you to watch your mouth and know your place.
You couldn't even spawn camp in SB. People respawned with several minutes of invulnerability and invisibility. The lag was so bad you could hit sprint and be three miles away before you loaded on your enemy's screen. Even if you were dumb enough to get killed at your tree, you wouldn't respawn in the same place. You would be sent to the ruins somewhere far away.
Killing someone within the rules of the game CAN be considered griefing. Corpse camping is one example of this.
Just because the rules allow for it does not mean it is not griefing.
Griefing has nothing to do with the rules of the game. It is about whether the person's actions are about deliberately trying to ruin the other person's experience.
Regarding the whiny bitches statement. That may be what you have experienced, however wrong and limited it was.
edit - abusing some feature or exploiting some feature to kill people may or may not be griefing. Thats a potential bannable offense though.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=griefer
That states what a griefer is.
or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
edit - and yes I realize we are getting close to the naturalistic and moralistic fallacies (those 2 are confusing).
However we are not stating that the rules should be changed or at least I'm not. If that's the game you want to play, go for it, if the rules allow it, have fun. It's still griefing.
But the thread IS (or started out anyway) about MMOs that promote griefing. Guess somewhere in the thread it got turned into what griefing is lol. Hopefully the links above clarify things though.
(edit: As a sidenote. I do like PvP, I actually like PvP in EVE as I find it pretty fair and balanced. EVE has definite griefers imo, but mostly its actually probably my favorite PvP out of the sandbox games. Black Desert Online PvP isn't annoying to me, despite it being item based, but I don't have much experience with BDO to say much more than that.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
There's nothing inherently wrong with corpse camping. They're effectively just extending your combat experience.
If you weren't such an intensely unlikable person, they wouldn't be doing it to you in the first place. Being punished for being an insufferable little twit is healthy. It builds character.
Frankly, they sound like good Samaritans to me.
And right back at you, "Saying the same ignorant thing again doesn't make it true."
You might think there is nothing inherently wrong with corpse camping. Most others do. Most others find that actions that significantly restrict others ability to play and especially done primarily to grief, to irritate... they do find something inherently wrong with that.
"unintended ways"
You could say that corpse camping in EQ 15+ years ago was griefing, because devs hadn't fully developed the genre at that point. In 2017 if they don't have ways to deal with it, then it is intended to be the way it is with some rare exceptions.
If you want to dispute it, you will need to bring more than blanket statements, argument ad populum, morality and alike fallacies...
As for the first paragraph, an argument that spawn/corpse w/e camping does not imply intention to grief is not sound either, it just as easily works both ways so wasn't worth mentioning in the first place.
Which leaves us with just the second paragraph, now I know why you defend the moral low ground, you had no high ground to begin with.
Thanks for clearing that up, at least you are getting honest now.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Nope, that doesn't work either.
You could've just said so up front, would've saved everyone a lot of time.
But thanks for the endless entertainment.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Also, for the record, I do not consider PvP to be griefing. Taking others enjoyment of the game away on purpose is. If you play an OWPVP game you accept that as part of the deal you may end up dead. However, that does not mean you should have to succumb to relentless harassment. I know many people that PvP and very few of them will stalk or grief another player over and over. Most will get a kill and move along especially if the fight was too easy. Of course, we consider ourselves to be true PvPers, not trolls/griefers/cyber-bullies. In my opinion, if you are not seeking a challenge, you aren't pvping, you are one of the above.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
STFU Donny.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.