this bit about 'buying these ships will give an advantage in the completed game even though CR said it will not' conversation. Cant anyone with the game fly all ships now? so maybe that is how the end product will work too, maybe you can 'rent' ship or buy them but buying them will economically not payoff for 100 years, so you might as well rent which everyone can do anyway
done.
Math can be hard I guess.
If I buy all the ships with real world money. It costs me ZERO in game so the ROI is not 100 years.. it's instantaneous.......
no you got it wrong.
Here is what the game world could be. You log in as a new player, you have access to RENT any ship in the game for in game micro credits that you can get in 5 mins. If you want to BUY that same ship that you can RENT. you would not be able to get your money back out of it for 100 years. Thus there is ZERO advantages to owning something you can rent for a .0000000000000000001% fraction of the cost.
see?
Not sure what is so hard to understand here.
If I buy ships with real money... I pay zero in game. if you rent ships for x... you have paid x. in every case x>o
You are talking about value... not advantage. Totally different concept.
you not following me.
There would be in that case ZERO ADVANTAGE to having your own ship REGARDLESS of if you bought it with real money or in game work
why would it matter that you spent $800 for a ship or 100 years in game to have ONE ship when you can rent ANY ship practically for free?
since you like math so much let me give you an example
Rent any ship in the game for 48 hours for 5 credit Buy ONE cool ship for 5,000,000,000,000,000 credits or $800
it makes a lot more sense to just rent
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
this bit about 'buying these ships will give an advantage in the completed game even though CR said it will not' conversation. Cant anyone with the game fly all ships now? so maybe that is how the end product will work too, maybe you can 'rent' ship or buy them but buying them will economically not payoff for 100 years, so you might as well rent which everyone can do anyway
done.
Math can be hard I guess.
If I buy all the ships with real world money. It costs me ZERO in game so the ROI is not 100 years.. it's instantaneous.......
no you got it wrong.
Here is what the game world could be. You log in as a new player, you have access to RENT any ship in the game for in game micro credits that you can get in 5 mins. If you want to BUY that same ship that you can RENT. you would not be able to get your money back out of it for 100 years. Thus there is ZERO advantages to owning something you can rent for a .0000000000000000001% fraction of the cost.
see?
Not sure what is so hard to understand here.
If I buy ships with real money... I pay zero in game. if you rent ships for x... you have paid x. in every case x>o
You are talking about value... not advantage. Totally different concept.
you not following me.
There would be in that case ZERO ADVANTAGE to having your own ship REGARDLESS of if you bought it with real money or in game work
why would it matter that you spent $800 for a ship or 100 years in game to have ONE ship when you can rent ANY ship practically for free?
since you like math so much let me give you an example
Rent any ship in the game for 48 hours for 5 credit Buy ONE cool ship for 5,000,000,000,000,000 credits or $800
it makes a lot more sense to just rent
You still confuse value with advantage. In your ludicrous example, you have rented your ship for 5 credits. I have mine for zero credits as I used out of game money.
Nobody remotely thinks your example is reasonable but even in that ludicrous example I have a 5 credit advantage every 2 days.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If your rental was damaged or destroyed could you just go and rent another one? Is the rental upgradable same as purchased ship?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
If your rental was damaged or destroyed could you just go and rent another one? Is the rental upgradable same as purchased ship?
This would be a standard practice within orgs and their fleets, if you rent a ship it would make sense you don't get the rights to do upgrades, core modifications and would simply use the loadout and be under the insurance the player/org who owns it has.
But that would just act as a way to balance out things in that matter because this would go beyond paying/grinding for a ship to play with the ship.
this bit about 'buying these ships will give an advantage in the completed game even though CR said it will not' conversation. Cant anyone with the game fly all ships now? so maybe that is how the end product will work too, maybe you can 'rent' ship or buy them but buying them will economically not payoff for 100 years, so you might as well rent which everyone can do anyway
done.
Math can be hard I guess.
If I buy all the ships with real world money. It costs me ZERO in game so the ROI is not 100 years.. it's instantaneous.......
no you got it wrong.
Here is what the game world could be. You log in as a new player, you have access to RENT any ship in the game for in game micro credits that you can get in 5 mins. If you want to BUY that same ship that you can RENT. you would not be able to get your money back out of it for 100 years. Thus there is ZERO advantages to owning something you can rent for a .0000000000000000001% fraction of the cost.
see?
Not sure what is so hard to understand here.
If I buy ships with real money... I pay zero in game. if you rent ships for x... you have paid x. in every case x>o
You are talking about value... not advantage. Totally different concept.
you not following me.
There would be in that case ZERO ADVANTAGE to having your own ship REGARDLESS of if you bought it with real money or in game work
why would it matter that you spent $800 for a ship or 100 years in game to have ONE ship when you can rent ANY ship practically for free?
since you like math so much let me give you an example
Rent any ship in the game for 48 hours for 5 credit Buy ONE cool ship for 5,000,000,000,000,000 credits or $800
it makes a lot more sense to just rent
You still confuse value with advantage. In your ludicrous example, you have rented your ship for 5 credits. I have mine for zero credits as I used out of game money.
Nobody remotely thinks your example is reasonable but even in that ludicrous example I have a 5 credit advantage every 2 days.
using my example there is a HUGE 'advantage' to NOT owning a ship.
I think you still dont understand my example.
there isnt any point in owning a ship in my example, the advantage is ZERO..5 mins ANY ship..not one...ANY?
I think your trying to suggest saving yourself 5 mins of game time of which you use to unlock things you would not otherwise unlock AND you can rent ANY ship is somehow an advantage to having one ship and not having things unlocked
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
If your rental was damaged or destroyed could you just go and rent another one? Is the rental upgradable same as purchased ship?
This would be a standard practice within orgs and their fleets, if you rent a ship it would make sense you don't get the rights to do upgrades, core modifications and would simply use the loadout and be under the insurance the player/org who owns it has.
But that would just act as a way to balance out things in that matter because this would go beyond paying/grinding for a ship to play with the ship.
How does it work now with subscribers getting a ship to try and with people who rent ships in game now?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
this bit about 'buying these ships will give an advantage in the completed game even though CR said it will not' conversation. Cant anyone with the game fly all ships now? so maybe that is how the end product will work too, maybe you can 'rent' ship or buy them but buying them will economically not payoff for 100 years, so you might as well rent which everyone can do anyway
done.
Math can be hard I guess.
If I buy all the ships with real world money. It costs me ZERO in game so the ROI is not 100 years.. it's instantaneous.......
no you got it wrong.
Here is what the game world could be. You log in as a new player, you have access to RENT any ship in the game for in game micro credits that you can get in 5 mins. If you want to BUY that same ship that you can RENT. you would not be able to get your money back out of it for 100 years. Thus there is ZERO advantages to owning something you can rent for a .0000000000000000001% fraction of the cost.
see?
Not sure what is so hard to understand here.
If I buy ships with real money... I pay zero in game. if you rent ships for x... you have paid x. in every case x>o
You are talking about value... not advantage. Totally different concept.
you not following me.
There would be in that case ZERO ADVANTAGE to having your own ship REGARDLESS of if you bought it with real money or in game work
why would it matter that you spent $800 for a ship or 100 years in game to have ONE ship when you can rent ANY ship practically for free?
since you like math so much let me give you an example
Rent any ship in the game for 48 hours for 5 credit Buy ONE cool ship for 5,000,000,000,000,000 credits or $800
it makes a lot more sense to just rent
You still confuse value with advantage. In your ludicrous example, you have rented your ship for 5 credits. I have mine for zero credits as I used out of game money.
Nobody remotely thinks your example is reasonable but even in that ludicrous example I have a 5 credit advantage every 2 days.
using my example there is a HUGE 'advantage' to NOT owning a ship.
I think you still dont understand my example.
there isnt any point in owning a ship in my example, the advantage is ZERO..5 mins ANY ship..not one...ANY?
I think your trying to suggest saving yourself 5 mins of game time of which you use to unlock things you would not otherwise unlock AND you can rent ANY ship is somehow an advantage to having one ship and not having things unlocked
I understand your example and he's correct, in the game world he has the advantage of undocking in his dreadnaught on day 1 while having a zero credit balance.
You on the other hand have to figure a way to earn the 5 credits to ren't yours.
If that way involves undocking in some sort of free starter ship very likely he'll be waiting outside the station to obliterate you.
Clearly he has the advantage "in the game world." There, did that help?
Sure, out of game you'll have not spent $800 but then we're talking about advantage in real life which is entirely different game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
this bit about 'buying these ships will give an advantage in the completed game even though CR said it will not' conversation. Cant anyone with the game fly all ships now? so maybe that is how the end product will work too, maybe you can 'rent' ship or buy them but buying them will economically not payoff for 100 years, so you might as well rent which everyone can do anyway
done.
Math can be hard I guess.
If I buy all the ships with real world money. It costs me ZERO in game so the ROI is not 100 years.. it's instantaneous.......
no you got it wrong.
Here is what the game world could be. You log in as a new player, you have access to RENT any ship in the game for in game micro credits that you can get in 5 mins. If you want to BUY that same ship that you can RENT. you would not be able to get your money back out of it for 100 years. Thus there is ZERO advantages to owning something you can rent for a .0000000000000000001% fraction of the cost.
see?
Not sure what is so hard to understand here.
If I buy ships with real money... I pay zero in game. if you rent ships for x... you have paid x. in every case x>o
You are talking about value... not advantage. Totally different concept.
you not following me.
There would be in that case ZERO ADVANTAGE to having your own ship REGARDLESS of if you bought it with real money or in game work
why would it matter that you spent $800 for a ship or 100 years in game to have ONE ship when you can rent ANY ship practically for free?
since you like math so much let me give you an example
Rent any ship in the game for 48 hours for 5 credit Buy ONE cool ship for 5,000,000,000,000,000 credits or $800
it makes a lot more sense to just rent
You still confuse value with advantage. In your ludicrous example, you have rented your ship for 5 credits. I have mine for zero credits as I used out of game money.
Nobody remotely thinks your example is reasonable but even in that ludicrous example I have a 5 credit advantage every 2 days.
using my example there is a HUGE 'advantage' to NOT owning a ship.
I think you still dont understand my example.
there isnt any point in owning a ship in my example, the advantage is ZERO..5 mins ANY ship..not one...ANY?
I think your trying to suggest saving yourself 5 mins of game time of which you use to unlock things you would not otherwise unlock AND you can rent ANY ship is somehow an advantage to having one ship and not having things unlocked
I understand your example and he's correct, in the game world he has the advantage of undocking in his dreadnaught on day 1 while having a zero credit balance.
....
no he would not have an advantage.
let me give you more detail.
While he is launching his ship, I am doing a mission in which I get 5 credits AND I unlock many things that will provide me more experience and credits later. I then go to the ship rental and rent ANY ship, ANY ship, whatever ship I want to fit my goal, maybe while he is flying around in his whatever ship, I take a cargo ship with a cargo mission I unlocked from doing that 5 min mission and I blast out of the solar system and make tons of money because the mission gave me 1,000,000 credits to buy materials of which I get a cut AND by doing so I unlock more missions. All while super ship guy is flying around masterbating
Besides, the so called 'advantage' that your trying to paint is at best very very very small and not somthing worth throwing around a GJW card around over.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
this bit about 'buying these ships will give an advantage in the completed game even though CR said it will not' conversation. Cant anyone with the game fly all ships now? so maybe that is how the end product will work too, maybe you can 'rent' ship or buy them but buying them will economically not payoff for 100 years, so you might as well rent which everyone can do anyway
done.
Math can be hard I guess.
If I buy all the ships with real world money. It costs me ZERO in game so the ROI is not 100 years.. it's instantaneous.......
no you got it wrong.
Here is what the game world could be. You log in as a new player, you have access to RENT any ship in the game for in game micro credits that you can get in 5 mins. If you want to BUY that same ship that you can RENT. you would not be able to get your money back out of it for 100 years. Thus there is ZERO advantages to owning something you can rent for a .0000000000000000001% fraction of the cost.
see?
Not sure what is so hard to understand here.
If I buy ships with real money... I pay zero in game. if you rent ships for x... you have paid x. in every case x>o
You are talking about value... not advantage. Totally different concept.
you not following me.
There would be in that case ZERO ADVANTAGE to having your own ship REGARDLESS of if you bought it with real money or in game work
why would it matter that you spent $800 for a ship or 100 years in game to have ONE ship when you can rent ANY ship practically for free?
since you like math so much let me give you an example
Rent any ship in the game for 48 hours for 5 credit Buy ONE cool ship for 5,000,000,000,000,000 credits or $800
it makes a lot more sense to just rent
You still confuse value with advantage. In your ludicrous example, you have rented your ship for 5 credits. I have mine for zero credits as I used out of game money.
Nobody remotely thinks your example is reasonable but even in that ludicrous example I have a 5 credit advantage every 2 days.
using my example there is a HUGE 'advantage' to NOT owning a ship.
I think you still dont understand my example.
there isnt any point in owning a ship in my example, the advantage is ZERO..5 mins ANY ship..not one...ANY?
I think your trying to suggest saving yourself 5 mins of game time of which you use to unlock things you would not otherwise unlock AND you can rent ANY ship is somehow an advantage to having one ship and not having things unlocked
I understand your example and he's correct, in the game world he has the advantage of undocking in his dreadnaught on day 1 while having a zero credit balance.
....
no he would not have an advantage.
let me give you more detail.
While he is launching his ship, I am doing a mission in which I get 5 credits AND I unlock many things that will provide me more experience and credits later. I then go to the ship rental and rent ANY ship, ANY ship, whatever ship I want to fit my goal, maybe while he is flying around in his whatever ship, I take a cargo ship with a cargo mission I unlocked from doing that 5 min mission and I blast out of the solar system and make tons of money because the mission gave me 1,000,000 credits to buy materials of which I get a cut AND by doing so I unlock more missions. All while super ship guy is flying around masterbating
Besides, the so called 'advantage' that your trying to paint is at best very very very small and not somthing worth throwing around a GJW card around over.
Sigh. Yet again when you lose the argument around your preset scenario you then change the parameters.
Sure, if you get a 2 year head start in a different part of the galaxy his advantage is minimal. Heck, he'll probably have quit playing by then, so hey, you win.
But if you are both starting out on Day 0 in the same station at the same time, he clearly has the advantage.
So yes, adding the passing of time reduces the advantage to near zero, one reason I have no issue with people starting years ahead of me I EVE, my pilots have enough trained skills and ISK to challenge almost anyone in the game.
It's just the limitations of the human player behind the controls that keeps them from their rightful destiny.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
this bit about 'buying these ships will give an advantage in the completed game even though CR said it will not' conversation. Cant anyone with the game fly all ships now? so maybe that is how the end product will work too, maybe you can 'rent' ship or buy them but buying them will economically not payoff for 100 years, so you might as well rent which everyone can do anyway
done.
Math can be hard I guess.
If I buy all the ships with real world money. It costs me ZERO in game so the ROI is not 100 years.. it's instantaneous.......
no you got it wrong.
Here is what the game world could be. You log in as a new player, you have access to RENT any ship in the game for in game micro credits that you can get in 5 mins. If you want to BUY that same ship that you can RENT. you would not be able to get your money back out of it for 100 years. Thus there is ZERO advantages to owning something you can rent for a .0000000000000000001% fraction of the cost.
see?
Not sure what is so hard to understand here.
If I buy ships with real money... I pay zero in game. if you rent ships for x... you have paid x. in every case x>o
You are talking about value... not advantage. Totally different concept.
you not following me.
There would be in that case ZERO ADVANTAGE to having your own ship REGARDLESS of if you bought it with real money or in game work
why would it matter that you spent $800 for a ship or 100 years in game to have ONE ship when you can rent ANY ship practically for free?
since you like math so much let me give you an example
Rent any ship in the game for 48 hours for 5 credit Buy ONE cool ship for 5,000,000,000,000,000 credits or $800
it makes a lot more sense to just rent
You still confuse value with advantage. In your ludicrous example, you have rented your ship for 5 credits. I have mine for zero credits as I used out of game money.
Nobody remotely thinks your example is reasonable but even in that ludicrous example I have a 5 credit advantage every 2 days.
using my example there is a HUGE 'advantage' to NOT owning a ship.
I think you still dont understand my example.
there isnt any point in owning a ship in my example, the advantage is ZERO..5 mins ANY ship..not one...ANY?
I think your trying to suggest saving yourself 5 mins of game time of which you use to unlock things you would not otherwise unlock AND you can rent ANY ship is somehow an advantage to having one ship and not having things unlocked
I don’t think you quite understand how math works. 5 is always greater than zero.
Thus in your ludicrous example my advantage is 5 credits every 2 days.
Again... value and advantage are distinct things. There is never going to be a scenario where it is better in game not to have all ships paid with out of game money. In a worst case scenario they are still assets that can be liquidated for in game resources.
Regarding your ludicrous proposal. In a Chairman’s letter they mentioned that an Aurora might cost 75000 credits. Using your 5 credit scenario it would take the renter 81 years to recover just the base cost of the ship. That doesn’t seem likely and that’s for a bottom tier... $25 ship. Fairly confident that a $1000 ship is going to cost an order of magnitude or two more in game credits than an Aurora.
In case you were wondering, with a 3 year ROI and just to recoup the base cost of the ship with no profit or insurance/damage the rental rate for an Aurora would be 137 credits every 2 days. Or 25000 credits a year that the guy who bought the ship with out of game cash can keep in his pocket. That’s a $25 ship.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
using my example there is a HUGE 'advantage' to NOT owning a ship.
I think you still dont understand my example.
there isnt any point in owning a ship in my example, the advantage is ZERO..5 mins ANY ship..not one...ANY?
I think your trying to suggest saving yourself 5 mins of game time of which you use to unlock things you would not otherwise unlock AND you can rent ANY ship is somehow an advantage to having one ship and not having things unlocked
I don’t think you quite understand how math works. 5 is always greater than zero.
a few things
1. your missing the part in which in that 5 mins I unlocked new missions, got new status ranking while the other guy did not unlock any new missions and did not get new status ranking. 2. your missing that I can rent ANY ship that I need to fit my specific need instead of just the one ship. 3. you missed the part of how I got a delievery mission in which I was given 1,000,000 credits to buy materials so that I can deliever and get a cut of the sales AND get a new mission all the while the other guy cant even do that mission because he doesnt have that ship (unless he rents). 4. that this is just ONE random example I have come up with on how they could do it. 5. (my favorite part): your running a justice campaign over 5 mins? are you fucking serious?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
It's not Zero. You still have maintenance and upgrade purchases. Plus you've spent real life money which should be considered. Otherwise I can buy a package for $15,000 and tell people I've spent zero ingame playing this game so far. It's the old argument of spending time vs spending money. Rental costs and options are speculation at this point unless you count the plan as gospel and not subject to change.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
using my example there is a HUGE 'advantage' to NOT owning a ship.
I think you still dont understand my example.
there isnt any point in owning a ship in my example, the advantage is ZERO..5 mins ANY ship..not one...ANY?
I think your trying to suggest saving yourself 5 mins of game time of which you use to unlock things you would not otherwise unlock AND you can rent ANY ship is somehow an advantage to having one ship and not having things unlocked
I don’t think you quite understand how math works. 5 is always greater than zero.
a few things
1. your missing the part in which in that 5 mins I unlocked new missions, got new status ranking while the other guy did not unlock any new missions and did not get new status ranking. 2. your missing that I can rent ANY ship that I need to fit my specific need instead of just the one ship. 3. you missed the part of how I got a delievery mission in which I was given 1,000,000 credits to buy materials so that I can deliever and get a cut of the sales AND get a new mission all the while the other guy cant even do that mission because he doesnt have that ship (unless he rents). 4. that this is just ONE random example I have come up with on how they could do it. 5. (my favorite part): your running a justice campaign over 5 mins? are you fucking serious?
Holy shit, Sean you're moving the goalposts so much and so often that it's hard to even keep up with where the playing field even is.
using my example there is a HUGE 'advantage' to NOT owning a ship.
I think you still dont understand my example.
there isnt any point in owning a ship in my example, the advantage is ZERO..5 mins ANY ship..not one...ANY?
I think your trying to suggest saving yourself 5 mins of game time of which you use to unlock things you would not otherwise unlock AND you can rent ANY ship is somehow an advantage to having one ship and not having things unlocked
I don’t think you quite understand how math works. 5 is always greater than zero.
a few things
1. your missing the part in which in that 5 mins I unlocked new missions, got new status ranking while the other guy did not unlock any new missions and did not get new status ranking. 2. your missing that I can rent ANY ship that I need to fit my specific need instead of just the one ship. 3. you missed the part of how I got a delievery mission in which I was given 1,000,000 credits to buy materials so that I can deliever and get a cut of the sales AND get a new mission all the while the other guy cant even do that mission because he doesnt have that ship (unless he rents). 4. that this is just ONE random example I have come up with on how they could do it. 5. (my favorite part): your running a justice campaign over 5 mins? are you fucking serious?
Holy shit, Sean you're moving the goalposts so much and so often that it's hard to even keep up with where the playing field even is.
yeah and it took me about 10 mins to come up with ONE way in which they can hold true to what they said about 'no advantage'
so maybe...just maybe....people should not be going around saying that there will be an advantage as a course of fact and instead fucking wait.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
using my example there is a HUGE 'advantage' to NOT owning a ship.
I think you still dont understand my example.
there isnt any point in owning a ship in my example, the advantage is ZERO..5 mins ANY ship..not one...ANY?
I think your trying to suggest saving yourself 5 mins of game time of which you use to unlock things you would not otherwise unlock AND you can rent ANY ship is somehow an advantage to having one ship and not having things unlocked
I don’t think you quite understand how math works. 5 is always greater than zero.
a few things
1. your missing the part in which in that 5 mins I unlocked new missions, got new status ranking while the other guy did not unlock any new missions and did not get new status ranking. 2. your missing that I can rent ANY ship that I need to fit my specific need instead of just the one ship. 3. you missed the part of how I got a delievery mission in which I was given 1,000,000 credits to buy materials so that I can deliever and get a cut of the sales AND get a new mission all the while the other guy cant even do that mission because he doesnt have that ship (unless he rents). 4. that this is just ONE random example I have come up with on how they could do it. 5. (my favorite part): your running a justice campaign over 5 mins? are you fucking serious?
1. I can always choose to do whatever fantasy you concoct but you, having not bought all ships with cash cannot do the reverse. 2. I can buy all the ships. I can buy a few. I can buy one. I can use one and rent others. See number one above 3. See number 1 and number 2 above 4. ... umm your 1 ludicrous example failed. See 1-3 above 5. Pot vs kettle
You still do not grasp the basic concept that value and advantage are distinct. And that buying ships with cash will always be advantageous as in a worst case I could simply sell them for in game resources. There will never be a scenario where having ships for free in game (paid with cash) is on par with having to buy or “rent” them in game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
using my example there is a HUGE 'advantage' to NOT owning a ship.
I think you still dont understand my example.
there isnt any point in owning a ship in my example, the advantage is ZERO..5 mins ANY ship..not one...ANY?
I think your trying to suggest saving yourself 5 mins of game time of which you use to unlock things you would not otherwise unlock AND you can rent ANY ship is somehow an advantage to having one ship and not having things unlocked
I don’t think you quite understand how math works. 5 is always greater than zero.
a few things
1. your missing the part in which in that 5 mins I unlocked new missions, got new status ranking while the other guy did not unlock any new missions and did not get new status ranking. 2. your missing that I can rent ANY ship that I need to fit my specific need instead of just the one ship. 3. you missed the part of how I got a delievery mission in which I was given 1,000,000 credits to buy materials so that I can deliever and get a cut of the sales AND get a new mission all the while the other guy cant even do that mission because he doesnt have that ship (unless he rents). 4. that this is just ONE random example I have come up with on how they could do it. 5. (my favorite part): your running a justice campaign over 5 mins? are you fucking serious?
1. I can always choose to do whatever fantasy you concoct but you, having not bought all ships with cash cannot do the reverse. 2. I can buy all the ships. I can buy a few. I can buy one. I can use one and rent others. See number one above 3. See number 1 and number 2 above 4. ... umm your 1 ludicrous example failed. See 1-3 above 5. Pot vs kettle
You still do not grasp the basic concept that value and advantage are distinct. And that buying ships with cash will always be advantageous as in a worst case I could simply sell them for in game resources. There will never be a scenario where having ships for free in game (paid with cash) is on par with having to buy or “rent” them in game.
it boils down very simply to this:
1. in 10 mins I came up with a possible way that the final game could indeed make it such that there is 'no advantage' to having bought the game. I dont consider 5 mins an 'advantage'
2. so MAYBE.....be open minded and CONSIDER...the POSSIBLITY of maybe not stating as a FACT that 'it will give advantages' until you have more information about the game, like about when its really to come out. Is that being unreasonable?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
using my example there is a HUGE 'advantage' to NOT owning a ship.
I think you still dont understand my example.
there isnt any point in owning a ship in my example, the advantage is ZERO..5 mins ANY ship..not one...ANY?
I think your trying to suggest saving yourself 5 mins of game time of which you use to unlock things you would not otherwise unlock AND you can rent ANY ship is somehow an advantage to having one ship and not having things unlocked
I don’t think you quite understand how math works. 5 is always greater than zero.
a few things
1. your missing the part in which in that 5 mins I unlocked new missions, got new status ranking while the other guy did not unlock any new missions and did not get new status ranking. 2. your missing that I can rent ANY ship that I need to fit my specific need instead of just the one ship. 3. you missed the part of how I got a delievery mission in which I was given 1,000,000 credits to buy materials so that I can deliever and get a cut of the sales AND get a new mission all the while the other guy cant even do that mission because he doesnt have that ship (unless he rents). 4. that this is just ONE random example I have come up with on how they could do it. 5. (my favorite part): your running a justice campaign over 5 mins? are you fucking serious?
1. I can always choose to do whatever fantasy you concoct but you, having not bought all ships with cash cannot do the reverse. 2. I can buy all the ships. I can buy a few. I can buy one. I can use one and rent others. See number one above 3. See number 1 and number 2 above 4. ... umm your 1 ludicrous example failed. See 1-3 above 5. Pot vs kettle
You still do not grasp the basic concept that value and advantage are distinct. And that buying ships with cash will always be advantageous as in a worst case I could simply sell them for in game resources. There will never be a scenario where having ships for free in game (paid with cash) is on par with having to buy or “rent” them in game.
it boils down very simply to this:
1. in 10 mins I came up with a possible way that the final game could indeed make it such that there is 'no advantage' to having bought the game. I dont consider 5 mins an 'advantage'
2. so MAYBE.....be open minded and CONSIDER...the POSSIBLITY of maybe not stating as a FACT that 'it will give advantages' until you have more information about the game, like about when its really to come out. Is that being unreasonable?
Your original premise was rendering it more advantageous to rent a ship than buy one in pretty much every instance, to the point of absurdity. Might as well have went ahead and said "yea, but if they make all ships essentially free at release, then those folks who bought them with money don't have an advantage anymore!!"
Only, the chances that CIG basically shoot themselves on the face with such an asinine setup seems nil.
using my example there is a HUGE 'advantage' to NOT owning a ship.
I think you still dont understand my example.
there isnt any point in owning a ship in my example, the advantage is ZERO..5 mins ANY ship..not one...ANY?
I think your trying to suggest saving yourself 5 mins of game time of which you use to unlock things you would not otherwise unlock AND you can rent ANY ship is somehow an advantage to having one ship and not having things unlocked
I don’t think you quite understand how math works. 5 is always greater than zero.
a few things
1. your missing the part in which in that 5 mins I unlocked new missions, got new status ranking while the other guy did not unlock any new missions and did not get new status ranking. 2. your missing that I can rent ANY ship that I need to fit my specific need instead of just the one ship. 3. you missed the part of how I got a delievery mission in which I was given 1,000,000 credits to buy materials so that I can deliever and get a cut of the sales AND get a new mission all the while the other guy cant even do that mission because he doesnt have that ship (unless he rents). 4. that this is just ONE random example I have come up with on how they could do it. 5. (my favorite part): your running a justice campaign over 5 mins? are you fucking serious?
1. I can always choose to do whatever fantasy you concoct but you, having not bought all ships with cash cannot do the reverse. 2. I can buy all the ships. I can buy a few. I can buy one. I can use one and rent others. See number one above 3. See number 1 and number 2 above 4. ... umm your 1 ludicrous example failed. See 1-3 above 5. Pot vs kettle
You still do not grasp the basic concept that value and advantage are distinct. And that buying ships with cash will always be advantageous as in a worst case I could simply sell them for in game resources. There will never be a scenario where having ships for free in game (paid with cash) is on par with having to buy or “rent” them in game.
it boils down very simply to this:
1. in 10 mins I came up with a possible way that the final game could indeed make it such that there is 'no advantage' to having bought the game. I dont consider 5 mins an 'advantage'
2. so MAYBE.....be open minded and CONSIDER...the POSSIBLITY of maybe not stating as a FACT that 'it will give advantages' until you have more information about the game, like about when its really to come out. Is that being unreasonable?
Your original premise was rendering it more advantageous to rent a ship than buy one in pretty much every instance, to the point of absurdity. Might as well have went ahead and said "yea, but if they make all ships essentially free at release, then those folks who bought them with money don't have an advantage anymore!!"
Only, the chances that CIG basically shoot themselves on the face with such an asinine setup seems nil.
no my orginal premise was that its possible that they will actually make the game not have an advatange just as they claim. The renting was an possible example of how it COULD happen. Would you like another example?
the main point here is that they have stated that 'it will not provide an advantage' so I am asking you do you think its unreasonable to ask people to stop stating as a fact that it will give an advantage until all of the game play is revealed.
Is that request being unreasonable?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
So in short, my assertion is that it is in fact possible that the ships will not provide an advantage in the final game just as it does not provide an advantage now, just as they stated.
and I have provided just ONE example of how that could become possible
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Your example was absurd. Slapshot's point is that, unless they reduce the in-game costs of attaining those same ships to nothing in terms of time and in-game money, those who spent real cash start the "race" ahead no matter how you slice it.
If CIG really claim that store-bought ships will provide "no advantage" at release, then they've basically painted themselves into a corner.
So in short, my assertion is that it is in fact possible that the ships will not provide an advantage in the final game just as it does not provide an advantage now, just as they stated.
and I have provided just ONE example of how that could become possible
No you haven’t. Your example proves no such thing. Even in the ludicrous example there is STILL a number advantage. It’s just small (due the ludicrous nature of the example).
The only possible scenario where there’s is no advantage is the one above where all ships are free in game. Then zero = zero.
But that, by any rational viewpoint is not a valid option for the game.
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Your example was absurd. Slapshot's point is that, unless they reduce the in-game costs of attaining those same ships to nothing in terms of time and in-game money, those who spent real cash start the "race" ahead no matter how you slice it.
If CIG really claim that store-bought ships will provide "no advantage" at release, then they've basically painted themselves into a corner.
actually my example is not absurd at all and in many ways its how it is now.
you can fly any ship you want....now
but more importantly, I came up with ONE example in 10 mins. I could come up with another in another 10 mins if you like.
THE POINT here, is not that this will happen but rather its reasonable to say 'maybe they will have no advantage like they say it will be' given that we barely know dick about the games ruleset details
why is it some peoples hard on to be a critic of this game is so surging that they have to assume they know every single game feature before it comes out so well that they feel ok saying that buying ships will provide an advantage, despite the fact that we know very little about the details
ANOTHER RANDOM POSSIBILITY: none of the purchased ships have a flux capacitor nor a place to put one and without a flux capacitor your ship can be shot down easily.
now all your hanger ships never leave the bay.
done
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
There would be in that case ZERO ADVANTAGE to having your own ship REGARDLESS of if you bought it with real money or in game work
why would it matter that you spent $800 for a ship or 100 years in game to have ONE ship when you can rent ANY ship practically for free?
since you like math so much let me give you an example
Rent any ship in the game for 48 hours for 5 credit
Buy ONE cool ship for 5,000,000,000,000,000 credits or $800
it makes a lot more sense to just rent
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Nobody remotely thinks your example is reasonable but even in that ludicrous example I have a 5 credit advantage every 2 days.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
But that would just act as a way to balance out things in that matter because this would go beyond paying/grinding for a ship to play with the ship.
there isnt any point in owning a ship in my example, the advantage is ZERO..5 mins ANY ship..not one...ANY?
I think your trying to suggest saving yourself 5 mins of game time of which you use to unlock things you would not otherwise unlock AND you can rent ANY ship is somehow an advantage to having one ship and not having things unlocked
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
You on the other hand have to figure a way to earn the 5 credits to ren't yours.
If that way involves undocking in some sort of free starter ship very likely he'll be waiting outside the station to obliterate you.
Clearly he has the advantage "in the game world." There, did that help?
Sure, out of game you'll have not spent $800 but then we're talking about advantage in real life which is entirely different game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's more likely that with the separation of PU and Arena Commander that you'll get those unlocks on AC.
let me give you more detail.
While he is launching his ship, I am doing a mission in which I get 5 credits AND I unlock many things that will provide me more experience and credits later. I then go to the ship rental and rent ANY ship, ANY ship, whatever ship I want to fit my goal, maybe while he is flying around in his whatever ship, I take a cargo ship with a cargo mission I unlocked from doing that 5 min mission and I blast out of the solar system and make tons of money because the mission gave me 1,000,000 credits to buy materials of which I get a cut AND by doing so I unlock more missions. All while super ship guy is flying around masterbating
Besides, the so called 'advantage' that your trying to paint is at best very very very small and not somthing worth throwing around a GJW card around over.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Sure, if you get a 2 year head start in a different part of the galaxy his advantage is minimal. Heck, he'll probably have quit playing by then, so hey, you win.
But if you are both starting out on Day 0 in the same station at the same time, he clearly has the advantage.
So yes, adding the passing of time reduces the advantage to near zero, one reason I have no issue with people starting years ahead of me I EVE, my pilots have enough trained skills and ISK to challenge almost anyone in the game.
It's just the limitations of the human player behind the controls that keeps them from their rightful destiny.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Thus in your ludicrous example my advantage is 5 credits every 2 days.
Again... value and advantage are distinct things. There is never going to be a scenario where it is better in game not to have all ships paid with out of game money. In a worst case scenario they are still assets that can be liquidated for in game resources.
Regarding your ludicrous proposal. In a Chairman’s letter they mentioned that an Aurora might cost 75000 credits. Using your 5 credit scenario it would take the renter 81 years to recover just the base cost of the ship. That doesn’t seem likely and that’s for a bottom tier... $25 ship. Fairly confident that a $1000 ship is going to cost an order of magnitude or two more in game credits than an Aurora.
In case you were wondering, with a 3 year ROI and just to recoup the base cost of the ship with no profit or insurance/damage the rental rate for an Aurora would be 137 credits every 2 days. Or 25000 credits a year that the guy who bought the ship with out of game cash can keep in his pocket. That’s a $25 ship.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
1. your missing the part in which in that 5 mins I unlocked new missions, got new status ranking while the other guy did not unlock any new missions and did not get new status ranking.
2. your missing that I can rent ANY ship that I need to fit my specific need instead of just the one ship.
3. you missed the part of how I got a delievery mission in which I was given 1,000,000 credits to buy materials so that I can deliever and get a cut of the sales AND get a new mission all the while the other guy cant even do that mission because he doesnt have that ship (unless he rents).
4. that this is just ONE random example I have come up with on how they could do it.
5. (my favorite part): your running a justice campaign over 5 mins? are you fucking serious?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
so maybe...just maybe....people should not be going around saying that there will be an advantage as a course of fact and instead fucking wait.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
2. I can buy all the ships. I can buy a few. I can buy one. I can use one and rent others. See number one above
3. See number 1 and number 2 above
4. ... umm your 1 ludicrous example failed. See 1-3 above
5. Pot vs kettle
You still do not grasp the basic concept that value and advantage are distinct. And that buying ships with cash will always be advantageous as in a worst case I could simply sell them for in game resources. There will never be a scenario where having ships for free in game (paid with cash) is on par with having to buy or “rent” them in game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
1. in 10 mins I came up with a possible way that the final game could indeed make it such that there is 'no advantage' to having bought the game. I dont consider 5 mins an 'advantage'
2. so MAYBE.....be open minded and CONSIDER...the POSSIBLITY of maybe not stating as a FACT that 'it will give advantages' until you have more information about the game, like about when its really to come out. Is that being unreasonable?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Only, the chances that CIG basically shoot themselves on the face with such an asinine setup seems nil.
the main point here is that they have stated that 'it will not provide an advantage' so I am asking you do you think its unreasonable to ask people to stop stating as a fact that it will give an advantage until all of the game play is revealed.
Is that request being unreasonable?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
and I have provided just ONE example of how that could become possible
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
If CIG really claim that store-bought ships will provide "no advantage" at release, then they've basically painted themselves into a corner.
The only possible scenario where there’s is no advantage is the one above where all ships are free in game. Then zero = zero.
But that, by any rational viewpoint is not a valid option for the game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
you can fly any ship you want....now
but more importantly, I came up with ONE example in 10 mins. I could come up with another in another 10 mins if you like.
THE POINT here, is not that this will happen but rather its reasonable to say 'maybe they will have no advantage like they say it will be' given that we barely know dick about the games ruleset details
why is it some peoples hard on to be a critic of this game is so surging that they have to assume they know every single game feature before it comes out so well that they feel ok saying that buying ships will provide an advantage, despite the fact that we know very little about the details
ANOTHER RANDOM POSSIBILITY:
none of the purchased ships have a flux capacitor nor a place to put one and without a flux capacitor your ship can be shot down easily.
now all your hanger ships never leave the bay.
done
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me