So in short, my assertion is that it is in fact possible that the ships will not provide an advantage in the final game just as it does not provide an advantage now, just as they stated.
and I have provided just ONE example of how that could become possible
No you haven’t. Your example proves no such thing. Even in the ludicrous example there is STILL a number advantage. It’s just small (due the ludicrous nature of the example).
The only possible scenario where there’s is no advantage is the one above where all ships are free in game. Then zero = zero.
But that, by any rational viewpoint is not a valid option for the game.
what about if at launch they gave us twice the in game value of all ships missing from our hangar?
I would say that under some circumstances, that would be correct. What thing we know is that you will need to fuel and purchase your goods.
So you have a Hull-E, great big cargo ship on day 1. "GREAT!" you have a massive leg up on everyone! Wait, you have to purchase cargo to trade, and pay for the fuel to fly the ship.
Hmm, suddenly the person with the newbie ship has an advantage.
Combat could have an advantage! Sure! Until you have to fuel/refit.
What you will find is that those with the ships that were purchased gain mainly the benefit of not having to purchase the ship. Suddenly, if rental will be possible for those types of missions that advantage is reduced.
Everyone has an opinion on who has an advantage over the other. Will buying ships with $ make a difference? I would argue that in the long run, not at all. In fact that is why it was stated that you wont be able to buy "ships" but you will be able to buy currency with real $ post launch to buy items in game. Not all professionals who enjoy the game have the time able to commit to grinding in game to get the items.
I would state, there will be an advantage, but It is far to early to figure out how much of an advantage there is, and if their dynamic matchmaking works as advertised what that will mean.
I would state, there will be an advantage, but It is far to early to figure out how much of an advantage there is, and if their dynamic matchmaking works as advertised what that will mean.
--Izz
Good! Then we agree
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I would state, there will be an advantage, but It is far to early to figure out how much of an advantage there is, and if their dynamic matchmaking works as advertised what that will mean.
so clearly its likely there will not be an advantage to buying ships
Keep telling yourself that. Please be sure to come back when it launches and let us know how that worked out for you.
we came up with 3 possible ways it could easily happen in just under an hour. so maybe its not out of line to suggest to people to not assume its a given that what they stated is untrue so casually.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
so clearly its likely there will not be an advantage to buying ships
Keep telling yourself that. Please be sure to come back when it launches and let us know how that worked out for you.
we came up with 3 possible ways it could easily happen in just under an hour. so maybe its not out of line to suggest to people to not assume its a given that what they stated is untrue so casually.
Dude, just because something is available in game does not mean there is no p2w. Ask yourself how much time it would take you to earn enough in game money to buy a ship that costs $850 in real life money. Do you think this is going to be something you can grind for an hour to get? Meanwhile your boy out there with deep pockets is zipping around slaying with his five thousand dollar ship inventory. You may catchup....eventually. Like dude said....good luck with that.
so clearly its likely there will not be an advantage to buying ships
Keep telling yourself that. Please be sure to come back when it launches and let us know how that worked out for you.
we came up with 3 possible ways it could easily happen in just under an hour. so maybe its not out of line to suggest to people to not assume its a given that what they stated is untrue so casually.
Dude, just because .....
dude...just because one feels like the statement of 'the ships will not give you an advantage' doesnt mean that it will not without even knowing the full ruleset.
we came up with three possible ways the ship could not give you an advantage within about 45 mins.
My SUGGESTION here is for people to not assume...dude, just because you feel like it.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Until the game is actually released there is no way to know if P2W or not. How long it will take to get enough for a 850 dollar ship in game can't really be debated till game goes live. The problem will be what areas allow you to attack other players and areas players can make in game currency to buy the ship. Just a waste to discuss till released.
“The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
―
George Carlin
I applaud you sir, the most profound comment of this thread.
Many of us here are hopeful, and want to wait and see. We have our own hopes and desires as well. Some warranted, some just wishful thinking. Time will tell.
Dude, just because something is available in game does not mean there is no p2w. Ask yourself how much time it would take you to earn enough in game money to buy a ship that costs $850 in real life money. Do you think this is going to be something you can grind for an hour to get? Meanwhile your boy out there with deep pockets is zipping around slaying with his five thousand dollar ship inventory. You may catchup....eventually. Like dude said....good luck with that.
This mess is just not good for pc gaming.
Agree with the you first line, just because you can get doesn't mean anything (Bf2 for example) But, the point I think he's making is even if they paid that money for the ship, doesn't mean they will have the advantage, as we don't have full information on how the mechanics work, so we can only assume, we can't place it down as a fact, which a lot of people seem to be or trying to do.
It's a fair assumption due to other games, but then you have games like EVE where you can buy to your hearts content, but due to how the game is set up, it means nothing.
Overall he's asking people to keep an open mind and not just jump to the conclusion that this is how it's going to be.
Also another thing to considered, which Izzin pulled up and based on something we know, is ship up keep. Meaning your boy with deep pockets probably won't be able to even fly he's ship or keep using them because he won't be able to keep it functioning, fuel, maintenance, etc. While a person using the starter ship, I would assume, is earning all those things by playing the first few stages of the game and learning how things work.
If anything I would see it as a disadvantage, because you're most likely expending a ton of resources and money than you would be with a starter ship. REsulting in your progression taking a hit than someone who started normally. Tbh I wouldn't be shocked if many people assumed what you said and ended up stranded due to not being able to keep the ship going and becoming sitting targets for people in starters ships as they already have the essentials and weaponry
No game that has a cash shop makes it so the player can easily just ignore it. Stop being naive.
If a ship in the shop is stronger and can be used to beat another player (pvp) then its p2w.
Being that this game revolves around the cash shop p2w is unavoidable.
Let the justification begin.
1. you are saying that no game exists in which a cash shop in the game makes it so the player can ignore it? really? are you sure?
2. how do you know SC will have a cash shop?
3. No game has used Voxels with smooth terrain before...7 days to die either. are you suggesting all future games can not be different because of what is current?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Now - I dont know much about Star Citizen. I remember reading about it some years ago and it sounded fascinating and all that. But... (#Looks into it a little)
850$ for a ship in a game that is not released sounds just absurd. I mean... the game literally doesn't exist. Like others here say, it's a JPEG of a promise.
It is widely known that people pay high prices for stuff in-games, legally or illegally acquiring something they want. But this... It's not even a sketchy deal of buying virtual currency on some against-the-rules 3rd party website. This is literally equivalent of giving your money to a stranger that promises to pay you back with interest, 'some day soon'.
NOW! OKAY! This is a funding thing, right? You pay that amount for a limited ship in a game that doesn't exist, not for the ship - but because you want to support the project, right? I get it.
Well..... except....
They started developing the game in 2011. They started crowdfunding campaign in 2012, asking for2 000 000$, for initial planned release in 2014. The campaign was highly successful and surpassed the goal and stretch goals and the like. All in all - they got apparently nearly 40 000 000$ out of kickstarter.
Good so far, yeah?
Except... it's 2017. And they have gotten about 150 000 000$ by now. Thats 75x the amount of what they asked! And it's 3 years after the initial game is supposed to be released.
"Yea, but hey.... they got such a great response at first, they just wanted to make even better game for us backers!"
Am I right?
They just got so much money, they were not happy with their initial 'dream' for a game, so they went on to dream bigger, scrap the project and start from the beginning, right? 5 years ago, right? They are spending MILLIONS A MONTH on DEVELOPMENT to sell you more and more high-poly models of awesome capital ships and stuff that they will eventually put in the game, and you will enjoy the game YOU FUNDED, for MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION in a ship you spent 850$ for that's limited and awesome... in a game that's TOTALLY NOT PAY 2 WIN!
RIGHT?!
This Robert dude is a freaking genius. Dude was a designer, programmer. Created 'Starlancer' together with a bunch of other dudes and have been milking that space dream ever since.
At very least, you got some guy that's way over-achieving and just plain bad with planning a development cycle. And money.
They got way more money than they asked. The game is way over-due. And in all of this crowd-funding hype and pre-alpha releases, they don't even let their backers touch the game.
The "making it EVEN BETTER" talk is just bunch of BS. They had their base for a game. Their original backers backed a specific idea that they promoted. And now all of you got nothing to show for it, 5 years later. Because some dude called Robert likes to dream big, and likes to change his mind when he sees the $-$ signs in his eyes.
This reminds me one of these Harry Potter forums where everyone is in a big bubble, posting images and stories of their fantasies, saying "HOGWARTS IS REAL! Soon we'll get there!"
Let me leave you with some quotes from wiki.
Freelancer is a space trading and combat simulationvideo game developed by Digital Anvil and published by Microsoft Game Studios. It is a chronological sequel to Digital Anvil's Starlancer, a combat flight simulator released in 2000. The game was initially announced by Chris Roberts in 1999, and following many production schedule mishaps and a buyout of Digital Anvil by Microsoft, it was eventually released in March 2003.
In June 2000, Microsoft started talks to buy Digital Anvil. Roberts admitted that his team required large sums of money, which only a huge company could provide, to continue developing Freelancer with its "wildly ambitious" features and unpredictable schedule; the project had overshot its original development projection of three years by 18 months. Roberts trusted that Microsoft would not compromise his vision for Freelancer, and was convinced the software giant would not attempt the takeover if it did not believe Freelancer could sell at least 500,000 copies when released.[38] Roberts left the company on completion of the deal, but assumed a creative consultant role on Freelancer until its release. Microsoft instructed Digital Anvil to scale down the ambitions of the project and focus on finishing the game based on what was possible and the team's strengths.
Star Citizenand Squadron 42 are produced by Chris Roberts' company Cloud Imperium Games and its European counterpart Foundry 42 and marketed under the Cloud Imperium Games subsidiary Roberts Space Industries. Game development is financed by a record-breaking crowdfunding campaign. Development began in 2011.[3] Originally planned for a release in 2014, and again in 2016, there is as of 2017 no official release date, and the game is still in active development. Squadron 42 was originally announced for a late 2015 release, but was delayed. As of August 2017, the game's website lists 2017 for release.
So are these numbers and dates all correct? Just wow.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
No game that has a cash shop makes it so the player can easily just ignore it. Stop being naive.
If a ship in the shop is stronger and can be used to beat another player (pvp) then its p2w.
Being that this game revolves around the cash shop p2w is unavoidable.
Let the justification begin.
1. you are saying that no game exists in which a cash shop in the game makes it so the player can ignore it? really? are you sure?
2. how do you know SC will have a cash shop?
3. No game has used Voxels with smooth terrain before...7 days to die either. are you suggesting all future games can not be different because of what is current?
The cash shop was the first thing CR got working flawlessly, the rest of the game...taking a long time. Just like mechanics in games with a cash shop. Sure you can get it in game after many many months of grind, or you can just buy it to save time. Because saving time is a QoL feature right....
No game that has a cash shop makes it so the player can easily just ignore it. Stop being naive.
If a ship in the shop is stronger and can be used to beat another player (pvp) then its p2w.
Being that this game revolves around the cash shop p2w is unavoidable.
Let the justification begin.
1. you are saying that no game exists in which a cash shop in the game makes it so the player can ignore it? really? are you sure?
2. how do you know SC will have a cash shop?
3. No game has used Voxels with smooth terrain before...7 days to die either. are you suggesting all future games can not be different because of what is current?
The cash shop was the first thing CR got working flawlessly, the rest of the game...taking a long time. Just like mechanics in games with a cash shop. Sure you can get it in game after many many months of grind, or you can just buy it to save time. Because saving time is a QoL feature right....
so because the game has a cash shop you are convinced that its a given that its a FACT that ships will give an advantage despite them saying otherwise because past ALL past games only give advantages to players with cash shops and future games can never change that.
REALLY?
also...ironic how they said 'ships will not give you an advantage' and in the first iteration of the game guess what?....a player can fly ANY ship in the game.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
It is really to early to say how everything will work. Even the content they put out in alpha has been redone a few times as they work on making it like the demos looked. I expect lots of do-overs, some even after launch as people try to find ways around the system. Making your first MMO means lots of mistakes and corrections along the way as they realize what is said may not work as well as what needs to be done.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
To say none of the cash bought ships provide an advantage is absurd. Some of the more expensive ships have larger cargo holds, this is a definite advantage if you are a trader.
The thing is SC's Anti-Fanboys or in Slapshot's case an Anti-Fanboy of anything to do with cash in video games seriously overestimate the advantage provided. They seem to think whoever has the biggest ship wins the fight.
Clearly they have never played Arena Commander, because the biggest ship is also the biggest, slowest target and a skilled pilot of a smaller vessel can tear you to pieces without you ever touching him if your aiming skills don't back up the size of your ship.
This isn't WoW. You don't just press Tab and expect all your hits to land. Anything you do in this game takes skill. Period. People who are used to swiping for or grinding for their right to win are in for a rude awakening if they try that crap in SC. A lot of no-lifers and wallet warriors are due to learn how terrible of players their reliance on stats has made them over the years.
To say none of the cash bought ships provide an advantage is absurd. ...
currently in the game any player can fly any ship in the game for free.
that is how it was last time I saw it
there are a trillion diffferent ways you can make this work
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
No game that has a cash shop makes it so the player can easily just ignore it. Stop being naive.
If a ship in the shop is stronger and can be used to beat another player (pvp) then its p2w.
Being that this game revolves around the cash shop p2w is unavoidable.
Let the justification begin.
1. you are saying that no game exists in which a cash shop in the game makes it so the player can ignore it? really? are you sure?
2. how do you know SC will have a cash shop?
3. No game has used Voxels with smooth terrain before...7 days to die either. are you suggesting all future games can not be different because of what is current?
The cash shop was the first thing CR got working flawlessly, the rest of the game...taking a long time. Just like mechanics in games with a cash shop. Sure you can get it in game after many many months of grind, or you can just buy it to save time. Because saving time is a QoL feature right....
so because the game has a cash shop you are convinced that its a given that its a FACT that ships will give an advantage despite them saying otherwise because past ALL past games only give advantages to players with cash shops and future games can never change that.
REALLY?
also...ironic how they said 'ships will not give you an advantage' and in the first iteration of the game guess what?....a player can fly ANY ship in the game.
Are you trying to say buying a $850 dollar ship will not give people an advantage?
Did you seriously ask how do we know SC will have a cash shop when it already does?
Is reality a foreign concept to you?
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
So just checking out the new ship. What it is is a ship you can land on a planet and begin constructing an outpost and eventually even upgrade it to a settlement.
So your 850$ is providing you the ability to colonize planets while everyone else is saving up the in-game currency to buy this ship.
My ship, the Carrack is a deep space exploration ship. My 400$ provides me with the ability to go deeper into space than anyone else can and explore it while they are still saving currency to buy my ship.
Yeah that's an advantage. I don't think it's as big of an advantage as "SOMEONE SPENT CASH ON A VIDEO GAME THE WORLD IS ENDING!" Slapshot would like you to believe but let's be intellectually honest here. It's an edge on the competition. People wouldn't buy it if it wasn't.
Comments
now its even a disadvantage
BOOOM SLAM DUNK!
Have fun
I would say that under some circumstances, that would be correct. What thing we know is that you will need to fuel and purchase your goods.
So you have a Hull-E, great big cargo ship on day 1. "GREAT!" you have a massive leg up on everyone! Wait, you have to purchase cargo to trade, and pay for the fuel to fly the ship.
Hmm, suddenly the person with the newbie ship has an advantage.
Combat could have an advantage! Sure! Until you have to fuel/refit.
What you will find is that those with the ships that were purchased gain mainly the benefit of not having to purchase the ship. Suddenly, if rental will be possible for those types of missions that advantage is reduced.
Everyone has an opinion on who has an advantage over the other. Will buying ships with $ make a difference? I would argue that in the long run, not at all. In fact that is why it was stated that you wont be able to buy "ships" but you will be able to buy currency with real $ post launch to buy items in game. Not all professionals who enjoy the game have the time able to commit to grinding in game to get the items.
I would state, there will be an advantage, but It is far to early to figure out how much of an advantage there is, and if their dynamic matchmaking works as advertised what that will mean.
--Izz
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I think we are talking a single ship funding this game in 3 to 4 million.
I would never have expected this would be able to achieve such numbers O___o
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
so maybe its not out of line to suggest to people to not assume its a given that what they stated is untrue so casually.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Dude, just because something is available in game does not mean there is no p2w. Ask yourself how much time it would take you to earn enough in game money to buy a ship that costs $850 in real life money. Do you think this is going to be something you can grind for an hour to get? Meanwhile your boy out there with deep pockets is zipping around slaying with his five thousand dollar ship inventory. You may catchup....eventually. Like dude said....good luck with that.
This mess is just not good for pc gaming.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
― George Carlin
Many of us here are hopeful, and want to wait and see. We have our own hopes and desires as well. Some warranted, some just wishful thinking. Time will tell.
--izz
If a ship in the shop is stronger and can be used to beat another player (pvp) then its p2w.
Being that this game revolves around the cash shop p2w is unavoidable.
Let the justification begin.
But, the point I think he's making is even if they paid that money for the ship, doesn't mean they will have the advantage, as we don't have full information on how the mechanics work, so we can only assume, we can't place it down as a fact, which a lot of people seem to be or trying to do.
It's a fair assumption due to other games, but then you have games like EVE where you can buy to your hearts content, but due to how the game is set up, it means nothing.
Overall he's asking people to keep an open mind and not just jump to the conclusion that this is how it's going to be.
Also another thing to considered, which Izzin pulled up and based on something we know, is ship up keep. Meaning your boy with deep pockets probably won't be able to even fly he's ship or keep using them because he won't be able to keep it functioning, fuel, maintenance, etc. While a person using the starter ship, I would assume, is earning all those things by playing the first few stages of the game and learning how things work.
If anything I would see it as a disadvantage, because you're most likely expending a ton of resources and money than you would be with a starter ship. REsulting in your progression taking a hit than someone who started normally. Tbh I wouldn't be shocked if many people assumed what you said and ended up stranded due to not being able to keep the ship going and becoming sitting targets for people in starters ships as they already have the essentials and weaponry
2. how do you know SC will have a cash shop?
3. No game has used Voxels with smooth terrain before...7 days to die either. are you suggesting all future games can not be different because of what is current?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/REALLY?
also...ironic how they said 'ships will not give you an advantage' and in the first iteration of the game guess what?....a player can fly ANY ship in the game.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The thing is SC's Anti-Fanboys or in Slapshot's case an Anti-Fanboy of anything to do with cash in video games seriously overestimate the advantage provided. They seem to think whoever has the biggest ship wins the fight.
Clearly they have never played Arena Commander, because the biggest ship is also the biggest, slowest target and a skilled pilot of a smaller vessel can tear you to pieces without you ever touching him if your aiming skills don't back up the size of your ship.
This isn't WoW. You don't just press Tab and expect all your hits to land. Anything you do in this game takes skill. Period. People who are used to swiping for or grinding for their right to win are in for a rude awakening if they try that crap in SC. A lot of no-lifers and wallet warriors are due to learn how terrible of players their reliance on stats has made them over the years.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Did you seriously ask how do we know SC will have a cash shop when it already does?
Is reality a foreign concept to you?
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/So your 850$ is providing you the ability to colonize planets while everyone else is saving up the in-game currency to buy this ship.
My ship, the Carrack is a deep space exploration ship. My 400$ provides me with the ability to go deeper into space than anyone else can and explore it while they are still saving currency to buy my ship.
Yeah that's an advantage. I don't think it's as big of an advantage as "SOMEONE SPENT CASH ON A VIDEO GAME THE WORLD IS ENDING!" Slapshot would like you to believe but let's be intellectually honest here. It's an edge on the competition. People wouldn't buy it if it wasn't.