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Groundbreaking AI is in!!!

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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846
    edited July 2018
    Kyleran said:
    Not at all true, I'm plenty 'butthurt' over CUs long overdue release or solid delivery schedule and it has like what, less than a 10th of SCs budget and a paltry $4 or $5 M in crowdfunding?

    I hold all Devs to similar standards but I guess when the dollars amp up I'm looking for increased accountability, a not unreasonable position I think.
    But on SC the butthurt non-backers are here literally every single day complaining about the time its taking, like unhealthy obsession much? We all know it's delayed we don't need that dead horse beaten every day like it's relevant or will change anything.

    We could create a macro for the same ol'posters on this game forum and every time a new thread is created they just post from the macro, and you'll not notice any difference than what it is now :D 
    Gdemami
  • IkedaIkeda Member RarePosts: 2,751
    It wouldn't be delayed if they didn't keep adding stuff no one asked for.  I backed them back when I knew what I was getting.  Then it ballooned into so much.  In that time, my $150 sits there unused.  I don't want to play a beta/alpha.  That's not getting my monies worth.  And frankly, shame on them.  E:D is doing more for less and they're, frankly, doing a better job.  YES, SC looks pretty but at this point if it wasn't giant hoops of flaming gasoline to get my money back, I would.

    This game in particular is why I don't kickstart things.
    BabuinixFrodoFragins
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    sgel said:
    NorseGod said:
     If SC doesn't happen, I'll bet some of their ideas will make it into future MMORPGs.
    Oh, even if it doesn't happen!? :dizzy:
    Again, what features do you think will become mainstream in MMORPGs after SC pulls them off or doesn't release.
    None. I hope we continue getting the same MMORPGs since 2004.
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    Kyleran said:
    NorseGod said:
    NorseGod said:

    So how many more years will it be before you think it's OK to criticize the game?
    Oh, is that your gripe? The fact they are not pumping out a cookie cutter WoW clone? I am ok with them taking longer than normal because they are attempting several features that have not been imagined before. But then again, I don't like current state of MMORPGs WoW-like copy and paste, so maybe I'm biased. If SC doesn't happen, I'll bet some of their ideas will make it into future MMORPGs.


    Is it unreasonable to ask for a rough idea when they are targeting the release of either game?

    Why you ask? So I can plan on when to upgrade my hardware to play it.  As a laptop gamer its not a simple matter of switching out a few components.


    Is it unreasonable to release an unfinished game on the date specified, then get called liars, broken "promises", and getting shit on in every medium?

    You already know what specs are needed. There are plenty of people running the game perfectly. They are building the game on the same hardware we're using for dicking around in alpha, not some top secret DoD tech that's 10 years ahead of civilian use.

    Gdemami
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,481
    NorseGod said:
    Kyleran said:
    NorseGod said:
    NorseGod said:

    So how many more years will it be before you think it's OK to criticize the game?
    Oh, is that your gripe? The fact they are not pumping out a cookie cutter WoW clone? I am ok with them taking longer than normal because they are attempting several features that have not been imagined before. But then again, I don't like current state of MMORPGs WoW-like copy and paste, so maybe I'm biased. If SC doesn't happen, I'll bet some of their ideas will make it into future MMORPGs.


    Is it unreasonable to ask for a rough idea when they are targeting the release of either game?

    Why you ask? So I can plan on when to upgrade my hardware to play it.  As a laptop gamer its not a simple matter of switching out a few components.


    Is it unreasonable to release an unfinished game on the date specified, then get called liars, broken "promises", and getting shit on in every medium?

    You already know what specs are needed. There are plenty of people running the game perfectly. They are building the game on the same hardware we're using for dicking around in alpha, not some top secret DoD tech that's 10 years ahead of civilian use.

    CIG hasn't gotten culling to work yet, despite ongoing attempts.  They just recently claim to have gotten instances to a size that will fit a single version of some of their large planned ships.  I suspect they will need the more advanced PC hardware as time goes on.  And really, that was something Roberts claimed early on, and was probably a smart decision.  For once.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    sgel said:
    NorseGod said:

    My opinion is this, IF they manage to pull off some of the features that they are trying to do, it's going to change MMORPGs.
    What features do you think will become mainstream in MMORPGs after SC pulls them off?
    Their funding model.
    VrikaJamesGoblinKefoNildensgel
  • esc-joconnoresc-joconnor Member RarePosts: 1,097
    MaxBacon said:
    I think simulating AI would be a bit redundant. 
    And there are already old multiplayer games that have collision with NPCs. I think GTA has them automatically get bumped to prevent blocking.
    Oh it has to face simulation, especially FPS AI, it requires so much behaviors and such to be applied in such a dynamic way to ever feel smooth and right that they rely on all sorts of simulation, from the AI being capable to hear "noise", to sense you moving near them, to properly do pathfinding and find covers and such, it's all a ton of details of the sort that will "make it or break it".

    GTA is heavily developed on that aspect but still has easy ways to not end up messed up with AI, such as the AI spawning and despawning as you move around, the AI issues are more common to MMO's because the whole game-world is persistent with all the AI entities on it, so when something derps it just stays that way and can lead to breaking issues.

    SC does simulate AI on the way The Sims does it because of SQ42, where one of its features is the whole crew of the capital ship is just a living place (we're also set to have AI crews inside ships on the main game btw), NPCs sleep, eat, have their jobs, stories, etc... So they make it simulate and I think the reason is to be capable to provide a dynamic to the central HUB you'll spend quite a bunch of time on the story campaign.
    I meant the phrase "simulate AI" is redundant ;) Simulated Intelligence is Artificial Intelligence. If you were then to Simulate an Artifical Intelligence it would still be an Artifical Intelligence. 
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    MaxBacon said:
    I think simulating AI would be a bit redundant. 
    And there are already old multiplayer games that have collision with NPCs. I think GTA has them automatically get bumped to prevent blocking.
    Oh it has to face simulation, especially FPS AI, it requires so much behaviors and such to be applied in such a dynamic way to ever feel smooth and right that they rely on all sorts of simulation, from the AI being capable to hear "noise", to sense you moving near them, to properly do pathfinding and find covers and such, it's all a ton of details of the sort that will "make it or break it".

    GTA is heavily developed on that aspect but still has easy ways to not end up messed up with AI, such as the AI spawning and despawning as you move around, the AI issues are more common to MMO's because the whole game-world is persistent with all the AI entities on it, so when something derps it just stays that way and can lead to breaking issues.

    SC does simulate AI on the way The Sims does it because of SQ42, where one of its features is the whole crew of the capital ship is just a living place (we're also set to have AI crews inside ships on the main game btw), NPCs sleep, eat, have their jobs, stories, etc... So they make it simulate and I think the reason is to be capable to provide a dynamic to the central HUB you'll spend quite a bunch of time on the story campaign.
    I meant the phrase "simulate AI" is redundant ;) Simulated Intelligence is Artificial Intelligence. If you were then to Simulate an Artifical Intelligence it would still be an Artifical Intelligence. 
    But what if it's a person pretending to be a computer?  Does that make the person artificial?
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,057
    NorseGod said:
    NorseGod said:

    So how many more years will it be before you think it's OK to criticize the game?
    Oh, is that your gripe? The fact they are not pumping out a cookie cutter WoW clone? I am ok with them taking longer than normal because they are attempting several features that have not been imagined before. But then again, I don't like current state of MMORPGs WoW-like copy and paste, so maybe I'm biased. If SC doesn't happen, I'll bet some of their ideas will make it into future MMORPGs.
    How about you answer the question?  How many more years should people wait before you think it's OK to question if it will ever be released and with the advertised features?
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    NorseGod said:
    NorseGod said:

    So how many more years will it be before you think it's OK to criticize the game?
    Oh, is that your gripe? The fact they are not pumping out a cookie cutter WoW clone? I am ok with them taking longer than normal because they are attempting several features that have not been imagined before. But then again, I don't like current state of MMORPGs WoW-like copy and paste, so maybe I'm biased. If SC doesn't happen, I'll bet some of their ideas will make it into future MMORPGs.
    How about you answer the question?  How many more years should people wait before you think it's OK to question if it will ever be released and with the advertised features?
    1.639284, exactly.  If the game hasn't launched by then, then it's completely reasonable to criticize them harshly.  But until then, no.
    FrodoFragins
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    Quizzical said:
    NorseGod said:
    NorseGod said:

    So how many more years will it be before you think it's OK to criticize the game?
    Oh, is that your gripe? The fact they are not pumping out a cookie cutter WoW clone? I am ok with them taking longer than normal because they are attempting several features that have not been imagined before. But then again, I don't like current state of MMORPGs WoW-like copy and paste, so maybe I'm biased. If SC doesn't happen, I'll bet some of their ideas will make it into future MMORPGs.
    How about you answer the question?  How many more years should people wait before you think it's OK to question if it will ever be released and with the advertised features?
    1.639284, exactly.  If the game hasn't launched by then, then it's completely reasonable to criticize them harshly.  But until then, no.
    So optimistic.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846
    edited July 2018
    How about you answer the question?  How many more years should people wait before you think it's OK to question if it will ever be released and with the advertised features?
    Actually 0. Star Citizen already proves that by its constant progress in its current Alpha. 

    It's not "if it will ever be released", it's already getting released "piece by piece", so to question an IF at this point is rather hmmm, it's about how quickly.

    SC will release, and also, we already know it won't have all the mentioned features and content by day-1 on its release.
    Gdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,060
    NorseGod said:
    Kyleran said:
    NorseGod said:
    NorseGod said:

    So how many more years will it be before you think it's OK to criticize the game?
    Oh, is that your gripe? The fact they are not pumping out a cookie cutter WoW clone? I am ok with them taking longer than normal because they are attempting several features that have not been imagined before. But then again, I don't like current state of MMORPGs WoW-like copy and paste, so maybe I'm biased. If SC doesn't happen, I'll bet some of their ideas will make it into future MMORPGs.


    Is it unreasonable to ask for a rough idea when they are targeting the release of either game?

    Why you ask? So I can plan on when to upgrade my hardware to play it.  As a laptop gamer its not a simple matter of switching out a few components.


    Is it unreasonable to release an unfinished game on the date specified, then get called liars, broken "promises", and getting shit on in every medium?

    You already know what specs are needed. There are plenty of people running the game perfectly. They are building the game on the same hardware we're using for dicking around in alpha, not some top secret DoD tech that's 10 years ahead of civilian use.

    Actually, all I know is what people are using to play a fragment of the full game,  no clue what will be best when this finally launches, which will be when again? 

    2021, 2022 or 2023?

    I suspect I'll be upgrading several times before it happens.

    BTW, stop with the stawman arguments,  no one is asking for them to release early and unfinished, just tell us when it likely will be finished and in top condition.

    Pretty simple request really, especially 5 plus years into development. 




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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,653
    Kyleran said:
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:
    Are they the very same people on the official forums complaining that they cannot play ..er "test", the full game yet?
    No, the majority of the posters here are not backers at all, they just like to... well, be butthurt over SC for the time it's taking, after all, it is one incredibly successful crowdfund if it wasn't for that nobody would care.


    Not at all true, I'm plenty 'butthurt' over CUs long overdue release or solid delivery schedule and it has like what, less than a 10th of SCs budget and a paltry $4 or $5 M in crowdfunding?

    I hold all Devs to similar standards but I guess when the dollars amp up I'm looking for increased accountability, a not unreasonable position I think.


    It’s amazing that this is not the normal perspective.  I criticize companies I backed. I criticize companies that I did not back.  Folks today are far too personally invested in “their” chosen game.  As I have said ad nauseum...  I’m a big CR fan.  I have been since I got my pre-ordered copy of WingCommander which came with a signed box and a hat (and the Secret Missions disc). I even watch the WingCommander movie when it’s on (love the music).  But seriously... this game’s development has been a train wreck. At this point I just want a functional version of SQ42...Hopefully without spinning NPCs.
    [Deleted User][Deleted User]rpmcmurphy

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  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,054
    I think people are more annoyed by the absolute free pass that Roberts is getting from some rather then the delays or abandoned road map. This combined with an Alpha which is being touted as absolutely amazing and AAA worthy (hint, its "just" an Alpha) which is showing great potential and scale but not actually banking on any of it yet, creates a cult like feeling and a complete lack of accountability.

    I think it is weird we can not be critical of the time everything takes just because progress is being made, there is no relation. Else Hello Games and No Mans Sky would be the best thing ever, their 15 man team is moving a lightning speed, and people have been joking about it but if they keep this up NMS might end up the better game on a scale SC can only dream of. And yes, they are different games, I know, I play both.

    TLDR: You can like AND be critical of the same thing, its not weird.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir 
    rpmcmurphySlapshot1188MadFrenchie
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    Durzax said:
    sgel said:
    NorseGod said:
     If SC doesn't happen, I'll bet some of their ideas will make it into future MMORPGs.
    Oh, even if it doesn't happen!? :dizzy:
    Again, what features do you think will become mainstream in MMORPGs after SC pulls them off or doesn't release.
    Glad you asked.

    1) unified first/third person animations. no more cheating it, allowed.
    2) physics grids, allowing vehicles inside of vehicles.
    3) terrain following animations.
    4) secondary view-ports, allowing holographic projections of people from remote locations.
    5) SOLED, dynamic sky that give natural day night cycles, with each games respective planetary lore. No more static sky boxes.
    6) the procedural planet tech.
    7) city-ed tool, adaptable city creation of any type as long as the developers are willing to make the asset libraries for the time frame that their respective games will use. 
    8) spherical terrain sizes in the millions of km as the playable game space. 

    The above is just a preliminary listing not an exhaustive.
    Amazing.
    Can't wait to see all these become auto-includes in all MMOs after SC releases or doesn't release.

    ..Cake..

  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    NorseGod said:
    sgel said:
    NorseGod said:
     If SC doesn't happen, I'll bet some of their ideas will make it into future MMORPGs.
    Oh, even if it doesn't happen!? :dizzy:
    Again, what features do you think will become mainstream in MMORPGs after SC pulls them off or doesn't release.
    None. I hope we continue getting the same MMORPGs since 2004.
    Because that's the only option right?
    Glad you think SC will influence MMOs but have absolutely no clue as to how.
    Just keep believing!

    ..Cake..

  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    lahnmir said:

    TLDR: You can like AND be critical of the same thing, its not weird.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir 
    Precisely this. You can follow something, enjoy the idea of the final product whilst also being critical. Being a fawning sycophant is not a requirement.
    Slapshot1188
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,463
    edited July 2018
    Problem is that OP is not being critical, it's being a troll, as usual lol 

    People would not need to "defend" Star Citizen if there wasn't people "attacking" it.

    Not only it's the same frustrated folks with a hateboner for CIG/Chris Roberts posting dumb ass #drama#concerns but any ignorant and oblivious guy that pretends to know about game development but it's just venting it's frustration lol
    Kyleran said:
    Actually, all I know is what people are using to play a fragment of the full game,  no clue what will be best when this finally launches, which will be when again? 

    2021, 2022 or 2023?

    I suspect I'll be upgrading several times before it happens.

    BTW, stop with the stawman arguments,  no one is asking for them to release early and unfinished, just tell us when it likely will be finished and in top condition.

    Pretty simple request really, especially 5 plus years into development. 
    Don't you ever stop to look around the gaming scene and try to understand why there's not a release date for Cyberpunk2077 or BeyoundGood&Evil2? 

    Games in development from experienced and proven studios.

    Developers intentions are one thing actual game development is another thing, things change all the time, dates are missed, it's the nature of the beast. The more ambitious a game tries to be, the more "new" tech used and developed more unknown problems occur, you can't plan for problems you can't foreseen. 

    When a game it's ready to release you and everyone in the gaming world will know because that's how it works with big games, it's not something worth of "worrying" about.
    Post edited by Babuinix on
    Gdemami
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    Babuinix said:
    Problem is that OP is not being critical, it's being a troll, as usual lol 

    People would not need to "defend" Star Citizen if there wasn't people "attacking" it.

    Not only it's the same frustrated folks with a hateboner for CIG/Chris Roberts posting dumb ass #drama#concerns but any ignorant and oblivious guy that pretends to know about game development but it's just venting it's frustration lol
    I was speaking in a general sense, not referring solely to the OP. The dumbass AI is pretty funny though don't you agree?

    People would defend Star Citizen regardless of "attacks", you regularly see people taken to task for the most innocuous of comments or for simple misunderstandings. A real shoot first, ask questions later attitude.
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,463
    It's not even a case of "dumb ai". It's about a work in progress just like in any game in development not remotely relevant to be worth it's own thread.

    It's because of dumb ass threads like these that most studios have to hide their game's developement and gamers still have so many misconceptions of the industry of game development.

    You can go on youtube and find hundreds of thousands of bugs/glitches video compilations from Released games it doesn't make the game or the company bad because of it.


    Desperate ignorant trolling at it's finest lol
    rpmcmurphyGdemami
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846
    I was speaking in a general sense, not referring solely to the OP. The dumbass AI is pretty funny though don't you agree?
    Do you think this is that funny? This AI glitches are the usual glitches we from AI in games, that is clipping and bad pathfinding.

    Now actual funny bugs in SC; that would be things like
    https://clips.twitch.tv/CleverFairQueleaKappaPride

    Well that was meant to happen, but not with that knockback lol
    ErillionBabuinix
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,060
    edited July 2018
    Babuinix said:
    It's not even a case of "dumb ai". It's about a work in progress just like in any game in development not remotely relevant to be worth it's own thread.

    It's because of dumb ass threads like these that most studios have to hide their game's developement and gamers still have so many misconceptions of the industry of game development.

    You can go on youtube and find hundreds of thousands of bugs/glitches video compilations from Released games it doesn't make the game or the company bad because of it.


    Desperate ignorant trolling at it's finest lol 

    You live in a house of mirrors 
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  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Member RarePosts: 3,476
    This game if it ever releases, is the finiest example of milking the cow ive ever seen. If it turns out to end up not releasing it may spell the end of pc gaming as we know it now.
    BabuinixErillionFrodoFragins
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  • XarkoXarko Member EpicPosts: 1,180
    I enjoy taking a jab at SC any oppoturnity, but why is everyone here so serious? Its a funny video, hilarious bugs happen during every game development. Both the "see, I told you SC is shit" and " muh alpha" people need to calm down and have a laugh.
    rpmcmurphyKyleran
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