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No PvP = Bad Game
BigQEd
Member Posts: 44
in Everquest II
Topic says it all.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Thanks for your well thought out opinion. I hope your trolling experience is a pleasant one.
I agree with Knoxay. Move along. there are plenty of pvp gankfest games out there for people like you. One of the biggest things eq2 has going for it is the abscence of open pvp.
It is so easy for you to call someone a troll... when they speak out about a lacking feature.
First off, I wasn't trolling. I am stating my opinion. Debate it... instead of instantly flaming me.
PvP is an essential part of MMO's... why play an interactive game that you cannot fully interact with? Seriously, lack of PvP in any game reduces the game to mind numbing repetitiveness.
P.S. If I were trolling... you just bit.
See, that's better. Now that you've presented your opinion with reasons backing it up, we can have a conversation. Simply saying something is "gay" because it doesn't have something you like makes me think you're a troll.
Personally I've never been attracted to PvP in MMORPG's. I think player vs. player combat is best left for games where a person's skill is the main attribute in determining the winner, not a person's level, class, and (to a lesser extent) gear. I'm not against consentual PvP (as long as classes aren't "balanced" to cater to PvP'rs), games with open PvP I will never play.
When you play a game online you are PvPing.... whether its directly or indirectly.
Basically, you are saying you dont like to use you reaction time vs other players. You want to compete based on time in game only (i.e. I am higher level... I win).
Nah, most people want direct PvP interaction. Its why EQ2 hasnt captured more of the market... its why Lineage2 and WoW are number 1 and 2 respectively (although WoW totaly stinks).
One of the big gripes I have with PvP is when PvP supporters use the arguement that fighting against another player requires much more skill than a PvE mob. For the most part, this is untrue. In my experiences, the vast majority of players of a given class will use the same combination of skills/abilities against you (basically utilizing the 'best build' for their class), thus in the end becoming just as predictable as a computer-controlled mob.
What irks me about PvP even more is that it is usually very hard to find someone who wants a fair fight--usually a PvPer will only engage someone if they know they have no chance of losing. So where's the challenge of that?
Now come on... and PvE mobs dont use the same set of skills over and over? Give me a break.
PvP does require more skill... there is no arguement that could say otherwise. Humans will always be more challenging that AI. A person could run away or fight... a person could play dirty or fight you honorably... a person could call in their friends or go it alone... a person could give you the finger and just log out (I hate it when they do that lol).
Either way, there is no comparison to the challenge of PvP... and to say otherwise just means you are in denial and protecting EQ2.
Yeah maybe you dont like PvP because you arent good at it... but be honest... dont give us this lame excuse that its not challenging.
I like using my skills against other players, however I prefer to do it on games like Battlefield 2 or Unreal Tournament. I like PvP on an even playing field where skill is tested, not class balance. My point isn't that most people feel this way. I'm fully aware that the mainstream gamer wants to "kick people asses" and prove that they're the most uber person in the world. My point is that there are a lot of gamers that prefer a great PvE experience over PvP, and to say that a game isn't worth playing because it doesn't have PvP is ignorant.
Edit:
Ok, done. Once this line of reasoning is used in defending PvP the conversation is no longer worth continuing. This is another reason I don't enjoy PvP based MMO's. People with this kind of mindset.
BigQEd, I'm more of a traditional RPG players so I don't like PvP either. I'm somehwat good with PvP, but the reason I'm not into pvp is because I prefer achieving something with friends who like to roleplay. There's nothing gay about questing with friends and because no one like PvP as much as you do doesn't make the stupid or the game gay. Unless you have a more valid reason than shooting off your ego to us, your words are hollow and fall on death ears.
There is hardly any skill in PvPs overall. PvP are ultimately decided by tactics, exploiting your class advantage over others; using certain weapons that give you a distinct advantage over most, if not all classes and exploiting bugs. Guild War is a primary example of people using tactics, not skill, to beat other class. (Spike Groups just require you to aim for the same target.), WoW's Shaman can kite/snare you to death with it's spell, proving exploiting your class gives you a huge advantage over others. A axe wielding warrior in WoW is example of how using certain weapons gives you a big advantage over those who don't since investing in axe attribute allows you to critical hit often. And exploiting bugs like the rumored "End of the World" bug in Halo 2 pretty much destroys all game. (End of the World bug allows players to float outside of the virtual sphere, allowing players to stand in thin air making them difficult to target and giving players a huge sniping advantage.)
There no doubt about it, there is no skill in PvP, if you can easily cheat to win and only prove they aren't badasses, but dumbasses for ruining the game with exploits and cheats.
And we go back in a circle...
RPG and PvP can and do do-exist on many games. To say you like RPG is why you dont like PvP is not a valid reason.
Look if you want to think you are captain bad arse and RP it... so be it. Just don't think others will agree to RP your way. (Thats the number 1 reason RPers dont like PvP).
Peoples have to understand not every mmo in this world has to have pvp , if you look at it most are only a share few are pve so why dont you leave them roleplayers and players that want to pve and group up with friend alone .
come and pvp in eveonline if you have the courage u will understand what it means losing something
Wow, you're pretty good at twisting my words around. When did I ever say that PvE was MORE CHALLENGING than PvP? That's right, I didn't. What I was stating is that in the end, PvP can be just as predictable as PvE. And all those 'random elements' you listed don't add to the challenge, they simply turn into annoyances. How does a prick bringing his friends in as backup add to the challenge? It doesn't; there's no challenge in the fight because you're going to get mercilessly pwned in an unfair fight.
The only time PvP is going to be challenging is if both sides more or less even. If one side is guaranteed a victory, where is the challenge? I stand by what I stated before--most PvPers don't want that challenge--they want an easy victory that they know they can win, then shout 'carebare' at the people that have a problem with it.
All of this comes from my personal experiences with PvP. I have only maybe once or twice fought someone where the victor of the battle was pretty much up in the air until the last moment. Usually, if you approach someone at or around your level for PvP, they will turn tail and run. Only if it is obvious that they can beat you down will they want to engage you, and that my friend is not PvP--it's just ganking.
Sure sounds like you said that PvP was no more challenging than PvE...
Maybe you can type what you mean the first time around... then you wont see it as someone "twisting" your words.
Anyway, no way PvE can be as challenging as PvP. Just too many variables that Humans can/will do that the computer won't.
i.e. "I am taking my toys and going home. You hurt my feelings."
Look, I am tired of people defending a game that lacks both sides to the MMO world. Sony shafted SWG and they shafted EQ2. You love EQ genre and cannot stand up and admit its flaws.
No MMO should leave out PvP... anymore than it should leave out PvE.
Sure sounds like you said that PvP was no more challenging than PvE...
Maybe you can type what you mean the first time around... then you wont see it as someone "twisting" your words.
Anyway, no way PvE can be as challenging as PvP. Just too many variables that Humans can/will do that the computer won't.
That IS exactly what I said. In your original response to me, you were implying that I thought PvE was more of a challenge than PvP--I was simply stating that there wasn't much difference in challenge. Try reading through my posts better next time.
Also, I noticed you didn't really comment on anything I said in my last post; you simply rehashed the same thing you said previously.
I get the sense that you don't really want a discussion here, but that you simply want to talk big and argue with people who don't see things your way. A discussion implies that you weigh whe other person is saying along with your own statements instead of flaming them for their opinion.
I'm going to bed.
i.e. "I am taking my toys and going home. You hurt my feelings."
Look, I am tired of people defending a game that lacks both sides to the MMO world. Sony shafted SWG and they shafted EQ2. You love EQ genre and cannot stand up and admit its flaws.
No MMO should leave out PvP... anymore than it should leave out PvE.
Quote, "There is hardly any skill in PvPs overall. PvP are ultimately decided by tactics, exploiting your class advantage over others; using certain weapons that give you a distinct advantage over most, if not all classes and exploiting bugs. Guild War is a primary example of people using tactics, not skill, to beat other class. (Spike Groups just require you to aim for the same target.), WoW's Shaman can kite/snare you to death with it's spell, proving exploiting your class gives you a huge advantage over others. A axe wielding warrior in WoW is example of how using certain weapons gives you a big advantage over those who don't since investing in axe attribute allows you to critical hit often. And exploiting bugs like the rumored "End of the World" bug in Halo 2 pretty much destroys all game. (End of the World bug allows players to float outside of the virtual sphere, allowing players to stand in thin air making them difficult to target and giving players a huge sniping advantage.)
There no doubt about it, there is no skill in PvP, if you can easily cheat to win and only prove they aren't badasses, but dumbasses for ruining the game with exploits and cheats, which later on are used by other players who find out about them."
not everyone likes PVP. simple as that. some people want absolutely nothing to do with it, so in that sense no not every MMO should have PVP. there's nothing wrong with people who like PVP and theres nothing wrong with people that dont. theyre called oppinions.
btw eq2 is getting PVP come sept 12 when the expansion launches.
Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II
XBL Gamertag - Eagle15GT
Have fun in your PvE cushy cushy world.
You folks don't want a discussion... you just want to defend your beloved game in its current state. Hooray for narrow-minded folks calling others "children" because they enjoy a challenge vs other players.
P.S. I am 36... and please don't retort with "act like it".
BigQEd, if your 36, you have some HUGE problems. The largest problem? You used the word "gay" to describe an in-animate object. Wow....I graduated from highschool 2 years ago and people use the word gay to describe everything. Also my next door neighbor's kid who is in middle school uses the word gay alot. Grow up.
Who the hell cares if EQ2 doesnt have PvP yet? Did you ever think some people like it that way? Or could you not get that through your thick skull? You said "you folks dont want a discussion"....its kind of hard to have a discussion with a supposedly grown man who describes objects with the word gay.
Oh and by the way, just so you cant use it as a flame, I dont play EQ2. It bored me.
Ever think that people like to play games without PvP? To them EQ2 isnt lacking in that sense, so get over thinking that your thinking is the right thinking.
You talk about the EQ genre having flaws? Yet you play Lineage 2....talk about calling the kettle black.
Simply not worth it...
Steer the subject off the topic because you cannot counter. Believe what you wish.