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No PvP = Bad Game
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If no PvP means the "l33t d00ds" stay away then good.
As I've said many times before, play Counter-Strike for your PvP action, with CS it's skill...not skill + character level. Alot more gratifying to slaughter the l33t d00ds round after round when character level has nothing to do with it.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
Wow... this many pages for an obvious troll post by a person who does nothing but bitch and moan about games that don't have PVP.
Hint: If you like PVP and a game doesn't have it then don't play that game.
DUH
Just because *you* want open PVP doesn't mean everyone else does and it certainly doesn't mean that every game that doesn't have it "sucks" or is a "bad game".
In a LEVEL BASED system no *open* PVP system can be implemented fairly where players won't get fed up and leave. You have to use voluntary PVP so that those who don't want to PVP can play otherwise you drastically restrict your playerbase to ONLY those players who enjoy fully open PVP which, while it goes over well in Asia, isn't well accepted in Europe or America. I don't pretend to know why, maybe we're less personally competitive... I honestly don't know. But the demographics are there to be looked at.
I agree that PVP, done properly, can add a lot of fun to a game. But it's hard to get it right so many MMO's add it later on, or not at all. If you don't enjoy MMO's that don't have PVP then don't play them. They cater to a different style gamer is all. Just because *YOU* prefer PVP does not mean everyone does. There is a very very large market for MMORPG's that don't have PVP. There's an even larger market for MMORPG's that have *restricted* or *limited* or *voluntary* (Take your pick of terms) PVP. The market for *open*/*pure* (take your pick) PVP MMORPG's is much much smaller.
Thus, you can call people carebears, you can claim that it sucks. But the bottom line is the allmighty $ and as long as the majority of players prefer not to have unrestricted PVP in their MMORPGs there will always be more MMO's with restricted or no PVP than ones with full PVP.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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no open pvp in a game simply makes it a bad game,its just that simple,everyone who disagrees is simply wrong, go play final fantasy if you do not want to be slaughtered caus you`re character sucks.
fantasy ROLEPLAY GAME says it all, i want to play a ROLE and be able to do whatever i want and if i want to backstab my groupmates to get their armor i will do so.
and in addition voluntary pvp sucks, how you going to backstab someone then? why play a thief(or shadowblade or whatever YOUR game calls that class) then...to backstab monsters?....not much fun there...ohhh you can be invisible...for monsters...woohoooo
carebars suck
edit: "Master bounty hunter" huh...what kinda bounties you hunt? npcs?...woohoo
beeeyatch
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what a useless thread..
The fact that you need pvp in a game to have fun doesnt mean that other people cant have fun wihtout pvp.
EQ2 is a basically well made game with lots to do for folks that enjoy PvM.
Hope you are not such an ignorant jerk in RL, otherwise..pitty you
Well now, I think that proves quite clearly the mindset of those folks who want open PVP.
If you knew anything about SWG you'd know that Bounty Hunters kill Jedi. And the only Jedi for us to kill are other players. Not to mention the fact that Jedi are more powerful than us lowly Bounty Hunters so we are attacking players 1.5-2x more powerful than we are. Personally? I only hunt Jedi solo and I never attack a mark who's AFK if they have their flag up.
Anyone who plays a BH that doesn't kill jedi is wasting their spec points on the profession and should change to one of the other combat professions that will allow them a broader template that's more useful in PVE. BH is a PVP centered profession.
SWG has plenty of PVP. The difference is that those who prefer not to PVP can choose not to.
Oh... and just as an FYI: EQ2 has voluntary PvP coming in the next expansion. Which I'm looking forward to seeing how it's implemented.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Still in: A couple Betas
I love PvP
I hate and loathe PvP players...
So, I stay away from PvP servers and such because the players that like it are complete morons and seriously. When I have some free time, then.. I dont want to waste that on total asshats and their blabbering..
Second... These so called "uber" PvP plaers are exactly the same poeple I meet in CS or BF 2 all the time that has a habit of joining servers only to TK as much as they want. They could not kill an Enemy if he was AFK even, so they turn on teir own side and shoot them in the back, thinking they are sooo good. Same mindset, same idiots on parade. And as I leave a bad BF 2 server for unpunished TKers... I also leave PvP servers alone. I just think I have an allergy towards idiots...
Now.. A good Realm combat in DaoC, two sides duking it out... Wonderful fun... Leet talking 11 year old on a powertrip... And pay money monthly to spend time with him? Not a chance in hell.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
Take a look at the PvP in WoW a game with supposedly 3 million subscribers.Not only is there no point to it since they dont have land control but you dont even drop armor nor can you loot the body.It has got to be the worst PvP ive ever seen implemented.To hell with the battlefields thats like a seperate game altogether.Id like to see more WAR since the name is World of Warcraft.Id also like to see more ANARCHY in Anarchy Online.
At least in L2 the whole system works the way it should for that game.In shadowbane the same thing you know WHY there is PvP the whole point is to burn down cities and RULE the server.
In EQ and EQ2 the whole point is to go adventuring.Not ri=ule the server or steal or PK for points.You make friends and explore the world.This isnt to say that i wouldnt hop on a PvP server in a fast heartbeat because i would.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
What I find funny is that no one tends to be a bigger detriment to the existence of open pvp games than the open pvp advocates themselves. I have never seen anyone promoting open pvp present their arguement in a logical manner; instead they all come across as arrogant playground bullies with grammar straight out of the third grade.
It should come as no surprise to you open pvp guys that the reason most people have no interest in that type of a game is because they don't wish to play with people like you.
I don't think that a game without PvP is bad, but I do think that it sells the game short.
Anyone can learn pathing, aggro ranges, spawn rates, etc, resulting in PvE at some point becoming fairly predictable.
Granted open pvp isn't for everyone, but even limited PvP offers another dimension to the game that players can take advantage of when PvE gets stale. There doesn't necessarily need to be a 'point' to pvp, other then some good competition.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Well thank you very much shae. I always look forward to your posts as well. Your opinion on many things MMO greatly differs from mine but you usually have good reasons and info to support them, makes me think alot.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
/pat Arremus
Yes, thats why Lineage2 is the largest MMO on the planet. It's all "fanbois". Keep dreaming.
Tell you what. I will bet you that EQ2 subs double when they install PvP in the game. Wanna bet me?
/pat Arremus
Yes, thats why Lineage2 is the largest MMO on the planet. It's all "fanbois". Keep dreaming.
Tell you what. I will bet you that EQ2 subs double when they install PvP in the game. Wanna bet me?
If you'd pay attention, you would know that Lineage 2 is largely considered a bad game by western gaming standards. The vast majority of it's user base comes from Asia--where that type of game thrives (and where there are a multitude of grind-games just like it).
Biggy, I have no idea why you think the very small aspect of PvP that is being added to EQ II is going to be some great thing that just draws in all the PvP'ers. Being able to arena fight I am just CERTAIN is going to draw in all those shadowbane players that are looking for hardcore PvP. right. The arena is going to being in MINIMUM of another 250,000 players, did you even think before you opened your mouth?
Arremus, whats your point exactly? L2 is not as successful as WoW and is mostly targetted to the asian market who has a completely different playstyle then the European and American MMO community not to mention their far more vast population numbers AND the fact that they run huge gaming cafe's. Besides Lineage 1 generally as whole was far more succesful then lineage II if I remember correctly. If you have some press releases off the official Lineage II site or from NCSoft on numbers outdoing Lineage 1's records and WoW's records please share. Last time I checked the reputation and US sales for L2 was not very impressive and I will continue to beleive so unless you have something to show me otherwise.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
As to the Lineage II example:
Case in point about that "whole different mindset" in the west than in Asia.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Wow... thanks Shae
I also enjoy reading posts from people who take the time to make well thought out and reasoned posts. It baffles me why people resort to name calling and flaming. It's much more reasonable to outline your opinion and why you feel that way.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Still in: A couple Betas
Case in point about that "whole different mindset" in the west than in Asia.
Nope. Has nothing to do with "Mindset". It has to do with Marketing, Advertising and PR.
Tell me... when was the last time you saw a Lineage2 AD? If you find one... let me know... I have never seen one in the US. Which would definitely account for L2 sales being low here.
If L2 were advertised here like WoW and EQ2... L2 would be of equal size in the US.
Sorry, wrong. Lineage II is well known and on shelves TODAY in every major game store. It's been advertized in multiple gaming magazines, etc. NCSOFT is very good about advertizing their games. Sure it hasn't been advertized quite to the extent of WoW and EQ2 but saying that the only reason it's only got 65,000 subscribers in the US is advertizing is ludicrous. It's only got 65,000 subscribers in the US because it's designed for Asian players. It's not been well received in the US and Europe. Period. MOST western gamers find it *boring*. Myself included. It's just a giant grind fest riddled with FarmerBots and Griefers.
Isn't it interesting that whenever a game is proved to be poorly received by the gaming community players want to trot out advertizing as the root of all the game's woes? Never the fact that the game lacks what the community is looking for?
And in this case... Lineage 2 was very widely advertized. Especially at release, and again when they released the latest expansion.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Case in point about that "whole different mindset" in the west than in Asia.
Nope. Has nothing to do with "Mindset". It has to do with Marketing, Advertising and PR.
Tell me... when was the last time you saw a Lineage2 AD? If you find one... let me know... I have never seen one in the US. Which would definitely account for L2 sales being low here.
If L2 were advertised here like WoW and EQ2... L2 would be of equal size in the US.
Look at Lineage 1's graphics and then look how many subscribers they have. Over a million I can say without even looking. That game couldnt get 10k subscribers here because it's totally irrellevant as far as graphics and style in NA.
Has nothing to do with mindset? BZZZT WRONG. Linege 2 is a bot ridden grief fest with the grind from hell. North American gamers expect a little bit more in terms of coding, customer service and game play. And I have seen Lineage 2 commercials about 4 months back with the release of C2. No one cared.
I would pick WoW or EQ2 over Lineage 2 any day, as would most informed gamers, because rampant botting, griefing and 1 drop in 30,000 mobs just isn't fun in any way.
Go away BigTrollEd, you just get more and more wrong as this troll gets more and more long.
I smell ... BS!
Front Shelf spaces goto WoW and EQ2. Lineage2 if you can find it... is in the back... WoW and EQ2 pay stores like EB and Gamespot for those top slots. (ask employees of those stores how it works
)
Find an Ad for L2 on an American website... post the links. Bet you find tons for WoW, EQ2 and GW. Back up your rhetoric.
Also, if you are bold enough scan images of all these magazines that have L2 ADs as well. They must be really small ads or extremely poorly placed because I sure havent seen them.
No PvP doesnt make a bad game.
I would sure love EQ2 to have duels and/or optional (means I get to choose to engage or not) PvP. But even without PvP this game is still good. Just becuase you dont like that fact doesnt mean the whole world should know about it. I mean, my fart stinks like a skunk, but I dont run out the middle of the street to announce that fact...
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Yeah, I'm sure there's some conspiracy going on with gaming stores. I see L2 at my local EB Games right next to all the other MMOs they sell.
As for ad space, I believe this past month's PC Gamer has a full page ad.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Well with the NEW EQ2 expansion comming out Desert Of Flames, there adding Dueling rings, not open pvp because in a Good content game like EQ2 itd mess it up. but duels are going to be interesting and the expansion is do out very soon i believe, it also won best expansion at the last E3
It won best expansion because no other game had any expansions coming out at the time. I for one played this game fora month, got to level 37, and usually I last years on mmorpgs with healer classes but after seeing that every other healer class was the same as mine, bye bye EQ2, sorry but I want to play a mmrpg and be unique not look, act, and have all the same crap as everyone else, worst mmorpg of all time.
I won't even consider trying it again until Open pvp servers come out if not, oh well.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
Can't speak for where you live but around here Best Buy, CompUSA, EB Games and Circuit City have EQ, EQ2, SWG, L2, UO, DAOC, And lately AC's been on the shelf at CompUSA again. All side by side.
Top shelves my eye. Do you even have a clue what you're talking about? I have never seen EQ singled out on a 'top shelf' away from the other MMORPG's. Most places that sell video games group them together by category kinda sorta. At least around here.
Unlike some folks I don't keep magazines laying around once I read them. They go in the good ol' trash can. So unfortunately I can't scan 'em for you. But I specifically remember the add for L2 because *gasp* that's how I found out about it a couple years ago. I was in the beta for it because of an article about it in PC Gamer and I remember seeing the adds when it was getting close to release. There was an add for it recently in PC Gamer as well.... don't remember which month it was though.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Still in: A couple Betas