Ungood said: As for MMO's being addicting, that was settled in the late 90's when AOL lost a court case, with their pay by the minute plan, because it was deemed that the online games were addictive and designed to keep users logged in, and thus AOL was forced to offer an unlimited plan, so as not to gouge their clients or take advantage of them.
Yeah ended up spending up to 600 bucks a month back then on texted based games. It would really suck when you spend 2 dollars per min or was that per hour? and the gm show up 30 mins late to judge a pvp event LOL.
I agree with the make a good product and we will buy it.
The problem is getting investors that spend millions and are willing to wait years on their returns to put it on faith that if they build it we will come. More so if they have to compete with games that have over a decades worth of content already. So I really do not mind mechanics that encourage you to support the game so long as they are not overly pay2win. I think GW2 and Destiny2 are games that achieved this at least to a small degree.
MacDonald's did not start switching over to more healthier foods because they got sued by fat kids. Consumers started to choose more healthy options which hurt MacDonald's sales.
I get the car and bike example. No lootbox should be like that. You should always get equal value for what your paying even if the item gained is in fact random. If you spending 5 bucks on a lootbox and getting less then that in virtual goods then I would agree that is gambling. I also think any company using lootboxs should be required to post the drop rates of all items within. With inspectors able to check to make sure they are not tweaking the numbers to increase sales.
Do you buy 1000 copies of the game hoping for a better game? Nope.
No, but there are gamers that buy 1000 screenshots of spaceships hoping they will eventually become a game. I find that far more alarming and reprehensible on both sides than loot box buyers and sellers.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
So these gamers were not happy with wasting money and want it back and are using other countries laws to word it into being gambling. I mean they do the same when they pay for the game, they gamble that money on the hopes they will actually like the game.
What about all the other games that do loot boxes but call them something different?
When you are purchasing a lootbox, you're really purchasing the rush of endorphins that come with a randomized reward, whether you realize it or not.
Your saying that they are selling you a item that produces a chemical reaction in your brain. So you think they are Dope dealers because Dopamine levels tend to increase when playing games.
dope
(dōp),
1. Any drug, either stimulating or depressing, administered for its temporary effect, or taken habitually or addictively.
The reason why what you're saying is fucking dumb is that the video games and the lootboxes are not being inserted into your body to cause said effect. The dopamine is already there, and it can be activated by any number of non-drug activities.
When they start physically shoving a copy of FIFA up your ass to achieve that result, then you can call them drug dealers.
The same logic about no physical insertion of Dopamine applies to gambling and is one of the reasons gambling is already regulated (and thus also one of the reasons loot boxes should be).
When you are purchasing a lootbox, you're really purchasing the rush of endorphins that come with a randomized reward, whether you realize it or not.
Your saying that they are selling you a item that produces a chemical reaction in your brain. So you think they are Dope dealers because Dopamine levels tend to increase when playing games.
dope
(dōp),
1. Any drug, either stimulating or depressing, administered for its temporary effect, or taken habitually or addictively.
The reason why what you're saying is fucking dumb is that the video games and the lootboxes are not being inserted into your body to cause said effect. The dopamine is already there, and it can be activated by any number of non-drug activities.
When they start physically shoving a copy of FIFA up your ass to achieve that result, then you can call them drug dealers.
The same logic about no physical insertion of Dopamine applies to gambling and is one of the reasons gambling is already regulated (and thus also one of the reasons loot boxes should be).
no all places are regulated, and places who are there is always a illegal gambling den.
This is the same as EU and other countries. They are all pushing towards having these removed. EU has some of the strongest cases where these were banned outright.
This is the same as EU and other countries. They are all pushing towards having these removed. EU has some of the strongest cases where these were banned outright.
Hence my remark about false pretense and other remarks on his original post about Endorphins.
For those that are not aware it was made by combining two words that mean producing in the body morphine.
They made the claim that your buying and consuming content that has substance. That produces a morphine like chemical that is rapidly released into your body so you can get high. No insertion required please do not try that at home kids.
But they back peddled to point out why that claim falls flat on it's face despite being the false pretense most commonly used in EU.
First of all increasing your endorphins levels can be a good and healthy thing to do. Second the triggered response happened in video games well before anyone added a lootbox as a micro transaction. This is not some thing exclusive to video games. You can trigger the same release of endorphins by eating cake or exorcising.
Being a parent is tough I won't deny that. But that does not justify being a bad parent and placing the blame else where when it comes to your children's welfare.
To that end i would like to see laws passed that give parents administration control of their kids accounts. Along with applications that notify you of their activity's with the power to shut it down if you don't like what you see.
If you don't want you kids to make ingame purchases without your consent you should have the power to lock them out of. Or set it at like 10 bucks per week if you choose.
If you want to regulate your kids game play. You should be able to set their accounts to only give access to the game for 2 hours a day between between certain hour's. Or set up warning notifications sent to your phone telling you that you kids have been playing fortnight for 5 hours while your at work do you want us to shut it down.
This would allow parents to do their jobs. Without forcibly removing the rights of every other consumer.
Being a parent is tough I won't deny that. But that does not justify being a bad parent and placing the blame else where when it comes to your children's welfare.
To that end i would like to see laws passed that give parents administration control of their kids accounts. Along with applications that notify you of their activity's with the power to shut it down if you don't like what you see.
If you don't want you kids to make ingame purchases without your consent you should have the power to lock them out of. Or set it at like 10 bucks per week if you choose.
If you want to regulate your kids game play. You should be able to set their accounts to only give access to the game for 2 hours a day between between certain hour's. Or set up warning notifications sent to your phone telling you that you kids have been playing fortnight for 5 hours while your at work do you want us to shut it down.
This would allow parents to do their jobs. Without forcibly removing the rights of every other consumer.
Pretty much all that is already available, via games or card issuer user portal.
So these gamers were not happy with wasting money and want it back and are using other countries laws to word it into being gambling. I mean they do the same when they pay for the game, they gamble that money on the hopes they will actually like the game.
What about all the other games that do loot boxes but call them something different?
What the fuck? That is legit one of the most majestically bad takes I've seen all year.
And this is the year in which the president unironically asked if we could inject bleach to kill the coronavirus.
Being a parent is tough I won't deny that. But that does not justify being a bad parent and placing the blame else where when it comes to your children's welfare.
To that end i would like to see laws passed that give parents administration control of their kids accounts. Along with applications that notify you of their activity's with the power to shut it down if you don't like what you see.
If you don't want you kids to make ingame purchases without your consent you should have the power to lock them out of. Or set it at like 10 bucks per week if you choose.
If you want to regulate your kids game play. You should be able to set their accounts to only give access to the game for 2 hours a day between between certain hour's. Or set up warning notifications sent to your phone telling you that you kids have been playing fortnight for 5 hours while your at work do you want us to shut it down.
This would allow parents to do their jobs. Without forcibly removing the rights of every other consumer.
Pretty much all that is already available, via games or card issuer user portal.
Care to give some good examples in video gaming? I'd honestly like to see some good examples. Parental control was easy to do in games like WoW in the past where I created and paid for my children's subscriptions. A lot harder to do with F2P and game cards from the local gas station/corner store. Parents today are a lot more computer literate now than in the past thankfully which should help.
Pretty much every age control I've seen so far online regarding video gaming has been based on the honesty of the user.
Basically If you can subtract 18 from 2020 your in like Flynn.
Being a parent is tough I won't deny that. But that does not justify being a bad parent and placing the blame else where when it comes to your children's welfare.
To that end i would like to see laws passed that give parents administration control of their kids accounts. Along with applications that notify you of their activity's with the power to shut it down if you don't like what you see.
If you don't want you kids to make ingame purchases without your consent you should have the power to lock them out of. Or set it at like 10 bucks per week if you choose.
If you want to regulate your kids game play. You should be able to set their accounts to only give access to the game for 2 hours a day between between certain hour's. Or set up warning notifications sent to your phone telling you that you kids have been playing fortnight for 5 hours while your at work do you want us to shut it down.
This would allow parents to do their jobs. Without forcibly removing the rights of every other consumer.
For lootboxes an age limit and mandatory age check both on account creation and on every lootbox purchase would be better.
Parenting is a responsibility of parents, not game companies.
Regardless, card issuers ultimately provide sufficient, robust control over expenditures of any sort - you can set limits, notifications, overviews, reports, etc.
Any legislation changes in this regard are absolutely unnecessary. Parents already have enough tools at their disposal, so when someone claims there are more regulations needed in regards to childeren, the failure is on their poor parenting, not video game companies.
Parenting is a responsibility of parents, not game companies.
Regardless, card issuers ultimately provide sufficient, robust control over expenditures of any sort - you can set limits, notifications, overviews, reports, etc.
Any legislation changes in this regard are absolutely unnecessary. Parents already have enough tools at their disposal, so when someone claims there are more regulations needed in regards to childeren, the failure is on their poor parenting, not video game companies.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Parenting is a responsibility of parents, not game companies.
Regardless, card issuers ultimately provide sufficient, robust control over expenditures of any sort - you can set limits, notifications, overviews, reports, etc.
Any legislation changes in this regard are absolutely unnecessary. Parents already have enough tools, whether they use them is up to them.
Like I said... games like WoW were easy because I created, controlled and payed for my children's account.
I raised four children. They grew up with PC's, PS's, XB's, Nintendo's etc. etc. Harvest Moon taught my oldest son to read at age four. I've always played games with my kids. Now the youngest is going on twenty three.
I also remember being a kid. Buying cigarettes, pot, boos, parties and all the other kinds of crap kids get into. All while my parents worked their asses off making a better life for their family.
The Bars and Clubs we're absolutely full of underage girls when I was old enough to get in.
Just listen too this guy lol. We're to trust the guys that sell our kids energy drinks, vape juice and loot boxes to regulate themselves.
Being a parent is tough I won't deny that. But that does not justify being a bad parent and placing the blame else where when it comes to your children's welfare.
To that end i would like to see laws passed that give parents administration control of their kids accounts. Along with applications that notify you of their activity's with the power to shut it down if you don't like what you see.
If you don't want you kids to make ingame purchases without your consent you should have the power to lock them out of. Or set it at like 10 bucks per week if you choose.
If you want to regulate your kids game play. You should be able to set their accounts to only give access to the game for 2 hours a day between between certain hour's. Or set up warning notifications sent to your phone telling you that you kids have been playing fortnight for 5 hours while your at work do you want us to shut it down.
This would allow parents to do their jobs. Without forcibly removing the rights of every other consumer.
For lootboxes an age limit and mandatory age check both on account creation and on every lootbox purchase would be better.
It's not and i will use Black Desert online as a example. You specifically target lootboxes so they can not be purchased. So instead of your child trying to buy a pet from a lootbox they spend 500 bucks on gear related upgrades that is rng based. They then go on to blow up there gear and feel like crap. And your looking at the bill going wtf 500 dollars and your worse off then when you started. It's much better for a parents to have full control of what the child can access instead.
The same thing applies to ingame chat systems that can be down right toxic in some games. Sure you can manually turn off those systems but there is really nothing stopping kids from turning them back on 5 mins after you stop watching them. Tools should be in place to prevent them from doing that without going to the extreme of passing a law that makes chat system in game illegal for everyone else to use.
If I were a company and a small population market like Canada passed this law I would just stop selling products in Canada. I am positive Canadians would still buy the product if they wanted it, and I wouldn't have to change anything.
I hope they do this as it would make me laugh hilariously as all the tyrants that love imposing their tyranny on other people will have a huge middle-finger thrown at them.
Being a parent is tough I won't deny that. But that does not justify being a bad parent and placing the blame else where when it comes to your children's welfare.
To that end i would like to see laws passed that give parents administration control of their kids accounts. Along with applications that notify you of their activity's with the power to shut it down if you don't like what you see.
If you don't want you kids to make ingame purchases without your consent you should have the power to lock them out of. Or set it at like 10 bucks per week if you choose.
If you want to regulate your kids game play. You should be able to set their accounts to only give access to the game for 2 hours a day between between certain hour's. Or set up warning notifications sent to your phone telling you that you kids have been playing fortnight for 5 hours while your at work do you want us to shut it down.
This would allow parents to do their jobs. Without forcibly removing the rights of every other consumer.
For lootboxes an age limit and mandatory age check both on account creation and on every lootbox purchase would be better.
It's not and i will use Black Desert online as a example. You specifically target lootboxes so they can not be purchased. So instead of your child trying to buy a pet from a lootbox they spend 500 bucks on gear related upgrades that is rng based. They then go on to blow up there gear and feel like crap. And your looking at the bill going wtf 500 dollars and your worse off then when you started. It's much better for a parents to have full control of what the child can access instead.
The same thing applies to ingame chat systems that can be down right toxic in some games. Sure you can manually turn off those systems but there is really nothing stopping kids from turning them back on 5 mins after you stop watching them. Tools should be in place to prevent them from doing that without going to the extreme of passing a law that makes chat system in game illegal for everyone else to use.
???
First, I was talking about lootboxes. Your example isn't about them.
Second, the problem of child blowing $500 is best prevented through controlling that your child does not have access to your credit card. You don't need to control your child's access anywhere else to do it.
Comments
I agree with the make a good product and we will buy it.
The problem is getting investors that spend millions and are willing to wait years on their returns to put it on faith that if they build it we will come. More so if they have to compete with games that have over a decades worth of content already. So I really do not mind mechanics that encourage you to support the game so long as they are not overly pay2win. I think GW2 and Destiny2 are games that achieved this at least to a small degree.
MacDonald's did not start switching over to more healthier foods because they got sued by fat kids. Consumers started to choose more healthy options which hurt MacDonald's sales.
I get the car and bike example. No lootbox should be like that. You should always get equal value for what your paying even if the item gained is in fact random. If you spending 5 bucks on a lootbox and getting less then that in virtual goods then I would agree that is gambling. I also think any company using lootboxs should be required to post the drop rates of all items within. With inspectors able to check to make sure they are not tweaking the numbers to increase sales.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
https://ashesofcreation.com/r/Y4U3PQCASUPJ5SED
Nice try, EA.
no all places are regulated, and places who are there is always a illegal gambling den.
For those that are not aware it was made by combining two words that mean producing in the body morphine.
They made the claim that your buying and consuming content that has substance. That produces a morphine like chemical that is rapidly released into your body so you can get high. No insertion required please do not try that at home kids.
But they back peddled to point out why that claim falls flat on it's face despite being the false pretense most commonly used in EU.
First of all increasing your endorphins levels can be a good and healthy thing to do. Second the triggered response happened in video games well before anyone added a lootbox as a micro transaction. This is not some thing exclusive to video games. You can trigger the same release of endorphins by eating cake or exorcising.
To that end i would like to see laws passed that give parents administration control of their kids accounts. Along with applications that notify you of their activity's with the power to shut it down if you don't like what you see.
If you don't want you kids to make ingame purchases without your consent you should have the power to lock them out of. Or set it at like 10 bucks per week if you choose.
If you want to regulate your kids game play. You should be able to set their accounts to only give access to the game for 2 hours a day between between certain hour's. Or set up warning notifications sent to your phone telling you that you kids have been playing fortnight for 5 hours while your at work do you want us to shut it down.
This would allow parents to do their jobs. Without forcibly removing the rights of every other consumer.
Pretty much every age control I've seen so far online regarding video gaming has been based on the honesty of the user.
Basically If you can subtract 18 from 2020 your in like Flynn.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
https://support.google.com/families/answer/6294544?hl=en
Parenting is a responsibility of parents, not game companies.
Regardless, card issuers ultimately provide sufficient, robust control over expenditures of any sort - you can set limits, notifications, overviews, reports, etc.
Any legislation changes in this regard are absolutely unnecessary. Parents already have enough tools at their disposal, so when someone claims there are more regulations needed in regards to childeren, the failure is on their poor parenting, not video game companies.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
....getroffene Hunde bellen.
I raised four children. They grew up with PC's, PS's, XB's, Nintendo's etc. etc. Harvest Moon taught my oldest son to read at age four. I've always played games with my kids. Now the youngest is going on twenty three.
I also remember being a kid. Buying cigarettes, pot, boos, parties and all the other kinds of crap kids get into. All while my parents worked their asses off making a better life for their family.
The Bars and Clubs we're absolutely full of underage girls when I was old enough to get in.
Just listen too this guy lol. We're to trust the guys that sell our kids energy drinks, vape juice and loot boxes to regulate themselves.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
....you have serious reading comprehension issues.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
The same thing applies to ingame chat systems that can be down right toxic in some games. Sure you can manually turn off those systems but there is really nothing stopping kids from turning them back on 5 mins after you stop watching them. Tools should be in place to prevent them from doing that without going to the extreme of passing a law that makes chat system in game illegal for everyone else to use.
I hope they do this as it would make me laugh hilariously as all the tyrants that love imposing their tyranny on other people will have a huge middle-finger thrown at them.
First, I was talking about lootboxes. Your example isn't about them.
Second, the problem of child blowing $500 is best prevented through controlling that your child does not have access to your credit card. You don't need to control your child's access anywhere else to do it.
Dont make me pull the thread and and point you out.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018