Whether players like f2p is irrelevant so long as they continue to support it well enough for it to remain the MMORPG marketing model standard.
Ever think the "new marketing standard" is the downfall of mmorpgs ?
Ever ask how happy players are with the currant model, or are we simply putting up with it with no other choice.
Irrelevant my butt
15-20 years ago we had no other choice... today we have many choices and I enjoy the freedom of choice.
Yes we do, mmorpg's for 5 year old's, 6year old's, and 7.
Classics all come with amazing cash shops and money grabs.
Modern games now come with linear story lines, along with no need to play with others, no need to group, their much more enhanced with solo play.
What a great time to be alive.... hit that one key and Boom, everything is insta dead. We didn't have that feature when I was a kid. We had to kill it ourselves.
Now log in, get a cup of coffee, come back and collect all your loot
Hasn't it been established that your only real experience with an mmorpg is World of Warcraft?
Which, even at launch, was one of the most streamlined experiences out there.
Whether players like f2p is irrelevant so long as they continue to support it well enough for it to remain the MMORPG marketing model standard.
Ever think the "new marketing standard" is the downfall of mmorpgs ?
Ever ask how happy players are with the currant model, or are we simply putting up with it with no other choice.
Irrelevant my butt
15-20 years ago we had no other choice... today we have many choices and I enjoy the freedom of choice.
Yes we do, mmorpg's for 5 year old's, 6year old's, and 7.
Classics all come with amazing cash shops and money grabs.
Modern games now come with linear story lines, along with no need to play with others, no need to group, their much more enhanced with solo play.
What a great time to be alive.... hit that one key and Boom, everything is insta dead. We didn't have that feature when I was a kid. We had to kill it ourselves.
Now log in, get a cup of coffee, come back and collect all your loot
Hasn't it been established that your only real experience with an mmorpg is World of Warcraft?
Which, even at launch, was one of the most streamlined experiences out there.
Besides me, am I wrong ?
Oh, another example:
It's like being in the Dentist office. While waiting, you pick up that magazine with a crossword puzzle, and it's already done...... you then tell the receptionist you did it, with a big smile on your face.
Whether players like f2p is irrelevant so long as they continue to support it well enough for it to remain the MMORPG marketing model standard.
Ever think the "new marketing standard" is the downfall of mmorpgs ?
Ever ask how happy players are with the currant model, or are we simply putting up with it with no other choice.
Irrelevant my butt
15-20 years ago we had no other choice... today we have many choices and I enjoy the freedom of choice.
Yes we do, mmorpg's for 5 year old's, 6year old's, and 7.
Classics all come with amazing cash shops and money grabs.
Modern games now come with linear story lines, along with no need to play with others, no need to group, their much more enhanced with solo play.
What a great time to be alive.... hit that one key and Boom, everything is insta dead. We didn't have that feature when I was a kid. We had to kill it ourselves.
Now log in, get a cup of coffee, come back and collect all your loot
Hasn't it been established that your only real experience with an mmorpg is World of Warcraft?
Which, even at launch, was one of the most streamlined experiences out there.
Besides me, am I wrong ?
In lineage 2 it was said that for spell casters, you wanted to one shot and at most two shot every mob.
For melee, it was just a few hits.
It was a grinding game and therefore getting the most kills per hour was the way to play. Additionally, you would use shots that were empowered crystals to make your hits stronger. However, that cost money, and money was hard to come by.
I say all this because none of it was hard and it was all about making things as insta-dead as possible.
To that point, a friend I met in the game would have his then 6-year-old kid run around and just kill mobs and he loved it. Took nothing, no planning no strategy, you just killed stuff quickly.
So I would offer that the idea of hit one key and boom everything dead isn't a new thing.
I seem to remember that people have talked about Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot where they would round up as many mobs as possible and then quickly AoE them down and then rinse and repeat.
Heck, we would do that in Lineage 2 as well.
So these games have never been hard and really have never been about anything but "boom one shot and you are dead."
As far as cash shops and money grabs, players were using their wallets. they were just buying from 3rd party farmers and e-bay. the only difference today is that the developers get to make money over some other person running bots or live farmers and taking over an area.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Whether players like f2p is irrelevant so long as they continue to support it well enough for it to remain the MMORPG marketing model standard.
Ever think the "new marketing standard" is the downfall of mmorpgs ?
Ever ask how happy players are with the currant model, or are we simply putting up with it with no other choice.
Irrelevant my butt
15-20 years ago we had no other choice... today we have many choices and I enjoy the freedom of choice.
Yes we do, mmorpg's for 5 year old's, 6year old's, and 7.
Classics all come with amazing cash shops and money grabs.
Modern games now come with linear story lines, along with no need to play with others, no need to group, their much more enhanced with solo play.
What a great time to be alive.... hit that one key and Boom, everything is insta dead. We didn't have that feature when I was a kid. We had to kill it ourselves.
Now log in, get a cup of coffee, come back and collect all your loot
Hasn't it been established that your only real experience with an mmorpg is World of Warcraft?
Which, even at launch, was one of the most streamlined experiences out there.
Besides me, am I wrong ?
In lineage 2 it was said that for spell casters, you wanted to one shot and at most two shot every mob.
For melee, it was just a few hits.
It was a grinding game and therefore getting the most kills per hour was the way to play. Additionally, you would use shots that were empowered crystals to make your hits stronger. However, that cost money, and money was hard to come by.
I say all this because none of it was hard and it was all about making things as insta-dead as possible.
To that point, a friend I met in the game would have his then 6-year-old kid run around and just kill mobs and he loved it. Took nothing, no planning no strategy, you just killed stuff quickly.
So I would offer that the idea of hit one key and boom everything dead isn't a new thing.
I seem to remember that people have talked about Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot where they would round up as many mobs as possible and then quickly AoE them down and then rinse and repeat.
Heck, we would do that in Lineage 2 as well.
So these games have never been hard and really have never been about anything but "boom one shot and you are dead."
As far as cash shops and money grabs, players were using their wallets. they were just buying from 3rd party farmers and e-bay. the only difference today is that the developers get to make money over some other person running bots or live farmers and taking over an area.
Well if you like one shot one kill mmorpgs, here's the next new modern one. Check out the preview footage.
The game is called Boom chocka-loka, Boom chocka-loka, available on Steam in July.
I just quit a game I was testing because it was supposed to be open world PvP and it is now a linear theme park with opt-in PvP available.
The developer expressed the desire to make a game that appeals to everyone. It was pointed out by another poster that some things cannot co-exist.
You cannot have: Open World PvP and PvP Flagging Meaningful Economy and Everyone Crafts/No Looting/Easy Access to All Materials Rare Items and Everyone Gets A Gold Ring
Another good point that was made:
Why is it that the PvE crowd can come into a PvP game and demand an insular PvE experience and get it without being told to pound sand?
Can I go into a medieval fantasy game and demand laser blasters? Can I go into a space simulation and demand more hobbits?
^--- You'd get laughed off the forums. "Hey noob, this is a medieval fantasy game, so no, you cannot have laser blasters and alien invasions"
And yet PvE people can go into a game advertised as open world PvP and pitch a fit about how they want an insular solo PvE experience... and get it.
(I prefer PvE to PvP and in my entire career of gaming I've attacked others, unprovoked, maybe twice - so no, I'm not a lewt dOOd who likes to grief)
That's easy to answer.
The Personal In Charge, realized that The PvE crowed not only Outnumbers, but also Outspends the PvP one, so it's a no brainer that they will do whatever they can to keep them around.
All the jokes about money being the motivator should have told you that one. After all, almost everyone on this topic without fail, has explained that this is a product, with the end goal to make as much as it can before it expires.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I just quit a game I was testing because it was supposed to be open world PvP and it is now a linear theme park with opt-in PvP available.
The developer expressed the desire to make a game that appeals to everyone. It was pointed out by another poster that some things cannot co-exist.
You cannot have: Open World PvP and PvP Flagging Meaningful Economy and Everyone Crafts/No Looting/Easy Access to All Materials Rare Items and Everyone Gets A Gold Ring
Another good point that was made:
Why is it that the PvE crowd can come into a PvP game and demand an insular PvE experience and get it without being told to pound sand?
Can I go into a medieval fantasy game and demand laser blasters? Can I go into a space simulation and demand more hobbits?
^--- You'd get laughed off the forums. "Hey noob, this is a medieval fantasy game, so no, you cannot have laser blasters and alien invasions"
And yet PvE people can go into a game advertised as open world PvP and pitch a fit about how they want an insular solo PvE experience... and get it.
(I prefer PvE to PvP and in my entire career of gaming I've attacked others, unprovoked, maybe twice - so no, I'm not a lewt dOOd who likes to grief)
That's easy to answer.
The Personal In Charge, realized that The PvE crowed not only Outnumbers, but also Outspends the PvP one, so it's a no brainer that they will do whatever they can to keep them around.
All the jokes about money being the motivator should have told you that one. After all, almost everyone on this topic without fail, has explained that this is a product, with the end goal to make as much as it can before it expires.
League of Legends (100 million users), Battlefield Series, and others have made pOOp tons of money. PvP games can make a great deal of cash. I'll grant you nobody has managed to do terribly well at this in the MMORPG space.
But I don't think you go far enough - do we have any successful MMORPG games (PVE) anymore or have they all been converted to insular single player games where there just happens to be other people about?
The thing I worry about is I don't know if we'll ever get an open world PvP game (AAA) because any attempt in that direction gets shouted down. Everyone cries about 'consent', and 'unfair', and all that noise - I've really lost respect for humanity over the last 2 weeks.
I will say this: The first developer that puts out an innovative Open World PvP game is going to make bank. They have no competition.
So I agree with you it is about the money. I take exception in that I think an innovative open world title would really do well.
LOL, is a MOBA, as far as I know, it does not have PvE at all, next will to talk about how Fortnight is making billions as well?
There are tons of Survival games, which are, for all intents and purposes, Open World PvP MMO's.
The question is.. why re all the people who want to play Open World PvP games not making those games p00p tons of money.
As far as MMO's, YMMV on that one, but I loved the Co-Op nature of GW2, it really felt like what an MMO should aspire to, where people can just play together without all the baggage that most other MMO's pointlessly toss upon the players. The Dynamic Events, World Bosses, bar none, best game design ever, too bad they went and screwed with that to make the hardcore players happy, the people they cried endlessly about needing challenge.
GW2's reward for catering to the Hardcore players is getting hurt hard in the wallet over that blunder.. but that just goes to show, that they are not always really clued in with what will make the money, which brings us back to the main question.
Why is the Person in charge of making those calls, so seemingly out of touch. I mean, if Money is the Motive, why do they shoot themselves in the nuts sometimes and ruin their game, and thus not make more money?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Like Mr. Turtle said above, devs are just like you or me with different likes and dislikes.
All we can do is look at what they do filtered through our own personal likes and dislikes. If they hit enough of my right spots then they're in touch with me. If they don't then they're damn fools!
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I just quit a game I was testing because it was supposed to be open world PvP and it is now a linear theme park with opt-in PvP available.
The developer expressed the desire to make a game that appeals to everyone. It was pointed out by another poster that some things cannot co-exist.
You cannot have: Open World PvP and PvP Flagging Meaningful Economy and Everyone Crafts/No Looting/Easy Access to All Materials Rare Items and Everyone Gets A Gold Ring
Another good point that was made:
Why is it that the PvE crowd can come into a PvP game and demand an insular PvE experience and get it without being told to pound sand?
Can I go into a medieval fantasy game and demand laser blasters? Can I go into a space simulation and demand more hobbits?
^--- You'd get laughed off the forums. "Hey noob, this is a medieval fantasy game, so no, you cannot have laser blasters and alien invasions"
And yet PvE people can go into a game advertised as open world PvP and pitch a fit about how they want an insular solo PvE experience... and get it.
(I prefer PvE to PvP and in my entire career of gaming I've attacked others, unprovoked, maybe twice - so no, I'm not a lewt dOOd who likes to grief)
That's easy to answer.
The Personal In Charge, realized that The PvE crowed not only Outnumbers, but also Outspends the PvP one, so it's a no brainer that they will do whatever they can to keep them around.
All the jokes about money being the motivator should have told you that one. After all, almost everyone on this topic without fail, has explained that this is a product, with the end goal to make as much as it can before it expires.
League of Legends (100 million users), Battlefield Series, and others have made pOOp tons of money. PvP games can make a great deal of cash. I'll grant you nobody has managed to do terribly well at this in the MMORPG space.
But I don't think you go far enough - do we have any successful MMORPG games (PVE) anymore or have they all been converted to insular single player games where there just happens to be other people about?
The thing I worry about is I don't know if we'll ever get an open world PvP game (AAA) because any attempt in that direction gets shouted down. Everyone cries about 'consent', and 'unfair', and all that noise - I've really lost respect for humanity over the last 2 weeks.
I will say this: The first developer that puts out an innovative Open World PvP game is going to make bank. They have no competition.
So I agree with you it is about the money. I take exception in that I think an innovative open world title would really do well.
LOL, is a MOBA, as far as I know, it does not have PvE at all, next will to talk about how Fortnight is making billions as well?
There are tons of Survival games, which are, for all intents and purposes, Open World PvP MMO's.
The question is.. why re all the people who want to play Open World PvP games not making those games p00p tons of money.
As far as MMO's, YMMV on that one, but I loved the Co-Op nature of GW2, it really felt like what an MMO should aspire to, where people can just play together without all the baggage that most other MMO's pointlessly toss upon the players. The Dynamic Events, World Bosses, bar none, best game design ever, too bad they went and screwed with that to make the hardcore players happy, the people they cried endlessly about needing challenge.
GW2's reward for catering to the Hardcore players is getting hurt hard in the wallet over that blunder.. but that just goes to show, that they are not always really clued in with what will make the money, which brings us back to the main question.
Why is the Person in charge of making those calls, so seemingly out of touch. I mean, if Money is the Motive, why do they shoot themselves in the nuts sometimes and ruin their game, and thus not make more money?
Sometimes they get too greedy, sometimes they mis-read the player base, sometimes they just guess wrong?
Doubtful any set out to make changes with intent to kill their cash cow.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I just quit a game I was testing because it was supposed to be open world PvP and it is now a linear theme park with opt-in PvP available.
The developer expressed the desire to make a game that appeals to everyone. It was pointed out by another poster that some things cannot co-exist.
You cannot have: Open World PvP and PvP Flagging Meaningful Economy and Everyone Crafts/No Looting/Easy Access to All Materials Rare Items and Everyone Gets A Gold Ring
Another good point that was made:
Why is it that the PvE crowd can come into a PvP game and demand an insular PvE experience and get it without being told to pound sand?
Can I go into a medieval fantasy game and demand laser blasters? Can I go into a space simulation and demand more hobbits?
^--- You'd get laughed off the forums. "Hey noob, this is a medieval fantasy game, so no, you cannot have laser blasters and alien invasions"
And yet PvE people can go into a game advertised as open world PvP and pitch a fit about how they want an insular solo PvE experience... and get it.
(I prefer PvE to PvP and in my entire career of gaming I've attacked others, unprovoked, maybe twice - so no, I'm not a lewt dOOd who likes to grief)
That's easy to answer.
The Personal In Charge, realized that The PvE crowed not only Outnumbers, but also Outspends the PvP one, so it's a no brainer that they will do whatever they can to keep them around.
All the jokes about money being the motivator should have told you that one. After all, almost everyone on this topic without fail, has explained that this is a product, with the end goal to make as much as it can before it expires.
League of Legends (100 million users), Battlefield Series, and others have made pOOp tons of money. PvP games can make a great deal of cash. I'll grant you nobody has managed to do terribly well at this in the MMORPG space.
But I don't think you go far enough - do we have any successful MMORPG games (PVE) anymore or have they all been converted to insular single player games where there just happens to be other people about?
The thing I worry about is I don't know if we'll ever get an open world PvP game (AAA) because any attempt in that direction gets shouted down. Everyone cries about 'consent', and 'unfair', and all that noise - I've really lost respect for humanity over the last 2 weeks.
I will say this: The first developer that puts out an innovative Open World PvP game is going to make bank. They have no competition.
So I agree with you it is about the money. I take exception in that I think an innovative open world title would really do well.
LOL, is a MOBA, as far as I know, it does not have PvE at all, next will to talk about how Fortnight is making billions as well?
There are tons of Survival games, which are, for all intents and purposes, Open World PvP MMO's.
The question is.. why re all the people who want to play Open World PvP games not making those games p00p tons of money.
As far as MMO's, YMMV on that one, but I loved the Co-Op nature of GW2, it really felt like what an MMO should aspire to, where people can just play together without all the baggage that most other MMO's pointlessly toss upon the players. The Dynamic Events, World Bosses, bar none, best game design ever, too bad they went and screwed with that to make the hardcore players happy, the people they cried endlessly about needing challenge.
GW2's reward for catering to the Hardcore players is getting hurt hard in the wallet over that blunder.. but that just goes to show, that they are not always really clued in with what will make the money, which brings us back to the main question.
Why is the Person in charge of making those calls, so seemingly out of touch. I mean, if Money is the Motive, why do they shoot themselves in the nuts sometimes and ruin their game, and thus not make more money?
Sometimes they get too greedy, sometimes they mis-read the player base, sometimes they just guess wrong?
Doubtful any set out to make changes with intent to kill their cash cow.
And yet.. for some games.. it seems like they are intent on doing just that.
GW2, being a prime example, for me, but I am sure others can share similar tales of when their beloved MMO's took a turn down shit street.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Whether players like f2p is irrelevant so long as they continue to support it well enough for it to remain the MMORPG marketing model standard.
Ever think the "new marketing standard" is the downfall of mmorpgs ?
Ever ask how happy players are with the currant model, or are we simply putting up with it with no other choice.
Irrelevant my butt
15-20 years ago we had no other choice... today we have many choices and I enjoy the freedom of choice.
Yes we do, mmorpg's for 5 year old's, 6year old's, and 7.
Classics all come with amazing cash shops and money grabs.
Modern games now come with linear story lines, along with no need to play with others, no need to group, their much more enhanced with solo play.
What a great time to be alive.... hit that one key and Boom, everything is insta dead. We didn't have that feature when I was a kid. We had to kill it ourselves.
Now log in, get a cup of coffee, come back and collect all your loot
So, essentially, 'Get offa my lawn!!'??
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I just quit a game I was testing because it was supposed to be open world PvP and it is now a linear theme park with opt-in PvP available.
The developer expressed the desire to make a game that appeals to everyone. It was pointed out by another poster that some things cannot co-exist.
You cannot have: Open World PvP and PvP Flagging Meaningful Economy and Everyone Crafts/No Looting/Easy Access to All Materials Rare Items and Everyone Gets A Gold Ring
Another good point that was made:
Why is it that the PvE crowd can come into a PvP game and demand an insular PvE experience and get it without being told to pound sand?
Can I go into a medieval fantasy game and demand laser blasters? Can I go into a space simulation and demand more hobbits?
^--- You'd get laughed off the forums. "Hey noob, this is a medieval fantasy game, so no, you cannot have laser blasters and alien invasions"
And yet PvE people can go into a game advertised as open world PvP and pitch a fit about how they want an insular solo PvE experience... and get it.
(I prefer PvE to PvP and in my entire career of gaming I've attacked others, unprovoked, maybe twice - so no, I'm not a lewt dOOd who likes to grief)
That's easy to answer.
The Personal In Charge, realized that The PvE crowed not only Outnumbers, but also Outspends the PvP one, so it's a no brainer that they will do whatever they can to keep them around.
All the jokes about money being the motivator should have told you that one. After all, almost everyone on this topic without fail, has explained that this is a product, with the end goal to make as much as it can before it expires.
League of Legends (100 million users), Battlefield Series, and others have made pOOp tons of money. PvP games can make a great deal of cash. I'll grant you nobody has managed to do terribly well at this in the MMORPG space.
But I don't think you go far enough - do we have any successful MMORPG games (PVE) anymore or have they all been converted to insular single player games where there just happens to be other people about?
The thing I worry about is I don't know if we'll ever get an open world PvP game (AAA) because any attempt in that direction gets shouted down. Everyone cries about 'consent', and 'unfair', and all that noise - I've really lost respect for humanity over the last 2 weeks.
I will say this: The first developer that puts out an innovative Open World PvP game is going to make bank. They have no competition.
So I agree with you it is about the money. I take exception in that I think an innovative open world title would really do well.
LOL, is a MOBA, as far as I know, it does not have PvE at all, next will to talk about how Fortnight is making billions as well?
There are tons of Survival games, which are, for all intents and purposes, Open World PvP MMO's.
The question is.. why re all the people who want to play Open World PvP games not making those games p00p tons of money.
As far as MMO's, YMMV on that one, but I loved the Co-Op nature of GW2, it really felt like what an MMO should aspire to, where people can just play together without all the baggage that most other MMO's pointlessly toss upon the players. The Dynamic Events, World Bosses, bar none, best game design ever, too bad they went and screwed with that to make the hardcore players happy, the people they cried endlessly about needing challenge.
GW2's reward for catering to the Hardcore players is getting hurt hard in the wallet over that blunder.. but that just goes to show, that they are not always really clued in with what will make the money, which brings us back to the main question.
Why is the Person in charge of making those calls, so seemingly out of touch. I mean, if Money is the Motive, why do they shoot themselves in the nuts sometimes and ruin their game, and thus not make more money?
I dunno.
Seems to me the smart choice when spinning up a new title is to make it configurable.
Have a server that is open world PvP; have a server that is Flagged PvP; have a server that is PvE only.
Let the players decide.
That's a lot of extra work, more codebases to keep up (and keep seperate), spreading out of playerbase, etc.
There are issues. I agree with you though.
"Gameplay you don't like!! Baked in!!" - Why aren't you buying our game???
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I just quit a game I was testing because it was supposed to be open world PvP and it is now a linear theme park with opt-in PvP available.
The developer expressed the desire to make a game that appeals to everyone. It was pointed out by another poster that some things cannot co-exist.
You cannot have: Open World PvP and PvP Flagging Meaningful Economy and Everyone Crafts/No Looting/Easy Access to All Materials Rare Items and Everyone Gets A Gold Ring
Another good point that was made:
Why is it that the PvE crowd can come into a PvP game and demand an insular PvE experience and get it without being told to pound sand?
Can I go into a medieval fantasy game and demand laser blasters? Can I go into a space simulation and demand more hobbits?
^--- You'd get laughed off the forums. "Hey noob, this is a medieval fantasy game, so no, you cannot have laser blasters and alien invasions"
And yet PvE people can go into a game advertised as open world PvP and pitch a fit about how they want an insular solo PvE experience... and get it.
(I prefer PvE to PvP and in my entire career of gaming I've attacked others, unprovoked, maybe twice - so no, I'm not a lewt dOOd who likes to grief)
That's easy to answer.
The Personal In Charge, realized that The PvE crowed not only Outnumbers, but also Outspends the PvP one, so it's a no brainer that they will do whatever they can to keep them around.
All the jokes about money being the motivator should have told you that one. After all, almost everyone on this topic without fail, has explained that this is a product, with the end goal to make as much as it can before it expires.
League of Legends (100 million users), Battlefield Series, and others have made pOOp tons of money. PvP games can make a great deal of cash. I'll grant you nobody has managed to do terribly well at this in the MMORPG space.
But I don't think you go far enough - do we have any successful MMORPG games (PVE) anymore or have they all been converted to insular single player games where there just happens to be other people about?
The thing I worry about is I don't know if we'll ever get an open world PvP game (AAA) because any attempt in that direction gets shouted down. Everyone cries about 'consent', and 'unfair', and all that noise - I've really lost respect for humanity over the last 2 weeks.
I will say this: The first developer that puts out an innovative Open World PvP game is going to make bank. They have no competition.
So I agree with you it is about the money. I take exception in that I think an innovative open world title would really do well.
LOL, is a MOBA, as far as I know, it does not have PvE at all, next will to talk about how Fortnight is making billions as well?
There are tons of Survival games, which are, for all intents and purposes, Open World PvP MMO's.
The question is.. why re all the people who want to play Open World PvP games not making those games p00p tons of money.
As far as MMO's, YMMV on that one, but I loved the Co-Op nature of GW2, it really felt like what an MMO should aspire to, where people can just play together without all the baggage that most other MMO's pointlessly toss upon the players. The Dynamic Events, World Bosses, bar none, best game design ever, too bad they went and screwed with that to make the hardcore players happy, the people they cried endlessly about needing challenge.
GW2's reward for catering to the Hardcore players is getting hurt hard in the wallet over that blunder.. but that just goes to show, that they are not always really clued in with what will make the money, which brings us back to the main question.
Why is the Person in charge of making those calls, so seemingly out of touch. I mean, if Money is the Motive, why do they shoot themselves in the nuts sometimes and ruin their game, and thus not make more money?
I dunno.
Seems to me the smart choice when spinning up a new title is to make it configurable.
Have a server that is open world PvP; have a server that is Flagged PvP; have a server that is PvE only.
Let the players decide.
You mean like how EQ1 did it back in 1999?
Kinda wonder why no one figured out that was a good idea to start with, before shitting the bed with bad ideas.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Whether players like f2p is irrelevant so long as they continue to support it well enough for it to remain the MMORPG marketing model standard.
Ever think the "new marketing standard" is the downfall of mmorpgs ?
Ever ask how happy players are with the currant model, or are we simply putting up with it with no other choice.
Irrelevant my butt
15-20 years ago we had no other choice... today we have many choices and I enjoy the freedom of choice.
Yes we do, mmorpg's for 5 year old's, 6year old's, and 7.
Classics all come with amazing cash shops and money grabs.
Modern games now come with linear story lines, along with no need to play with others, no need to group, their much more enhanced with solo play.
What a great time to be alive.... hit that one key and Boom, everything is insta dead. We didn't have that feature when I was a kid. We had to kill it ourselves.
Now log in, get a cup of coffee, come back and collect all your loot
Hasn't it been established that your only real experience with an mmorpg is World of Warcraft?
Which, even at launch, was one of the most streamlined experiences out there.
I just quit a game I was testing because it was supposed to be open world PvP and it is now a linear theme park with opt-in PvP available.
The developer expressed the desire to make a game that appeals to everyone. It was pointed out by another poster that some things cannot co-exist.
You cannot have: Open World PvP and PvP Flagging Meaningful Economy and Everyone Crafts/No Looting/Easy Access to All Materials Rare Items and Everyone Gets A Gold Ring
Another good point that was made:
Why is it that the PvE crowd can come into a PvP game and demand an insular PvE experience and get it without being told to pound sand?
Can I go into a medieval fantasy game and demand laser blasters? Can I go into a space simulation and demand more hobbits?
^--- You'd get laughed off the forums. "Hey noob, this is a medieval fantasy game, so no, you cannot have laser blasters and alien invasions"
And yet PvE people can go into a game advertised as open world PvP and pitch a fit about how they want an insular solo PvE experience... and get it.
(I prefer PvE to PvP and in my entire career of gaming I've attacked others, unprovoked, maybe twice - so no, I'm not a lewt dOOd who likes to grief)
I think the reality is there is no such thing as PvP mmorpg.
Even in PvP mmorpg, most people spend most of their time making their character stronger than trying to kill other people. Essentially they care more about character progression than pvp.
The reality is most PvP players who don't want RPG part just play shooters or MOBA. And most sandbox players just play minecraft.
You may think solo players are weird in mmorpg. The reality is you are probably the wierdo who want a PvP game with character progression.
In all the years here, I came to the overall conclusion, their are only several variations, that players like, and for the past 10 years, developers have touched on none of them....none !
Do they EVER ask groups of people or communities what they think ?
I for one can spot a "flop" way before release.... I'm sure you can too !
With all the alpha and bata testing, do they take ANY feed back ?
Best Example: Wildstar....... it was so bad, and I'm so mad, I'll not even spend the time to Google who made this steamy pile of crap. But what I do know it had to be a bunch of hyped up Monster drink drinking teenagers that were un supervised by adults, but somehow knew how to program and market a game.
NOW YOU MAY THINK THIS IS FUNNY..... It's not ! ALL mmorpgs of the last 10 years are not supervised, just released.
Don't even get me started on F2P, I'll have a heart attack, I already have a tumor because of this
WildStar was out for more than four years, and I'm surprised it lasted that long as NCSoft has a bit of an itchy trigger finger when it comes to games not meeting their revenue expectations.
I suppose those developers were out of touch as they apparently expected players to go through a lengthy attunement process to raid, and then to gather together in large numbers to tackle the content.
Who was going to do all that? Apparently not enough, at least to NCSoft's taste.
I remember a lot of people at the time saying the cartoony graphics and kiddy humor were a big turnoff. So they took an already niche market and divided it up even more.
Yes, that's right, I had forgotten about that. Considering some of what WoW has I didn't think it all that much worse, but perhaps the greater focus on it in WildStar went beyond what many could tolerate.
Bucks Won the Superbowl. Coach + Team Won the Game. Coach says, "GM deserves the Credit" What Coach really means is "The GM deserves the credit for listening to me, and doing what I asked to make this happen"
Arranging what the coach wanted may have been slightly more difficult than picking him up a candy bar while walking past the vending machine. It is quite possible the effort made was worth the praise given. Team effort isn't confined to the field alone.
It is worth the praise given, that is why the Coach gave it.
But, at the end of the day... Winning.. Is on the Field Alone.
Winning is a play with several acts, of which the field is the finale. Though the win comes on the field it doesn't start there and ongoing success doesn't end there.
Whether players like f2p is irrelevant so long as they continue to support it well enough for it to remain the MMORPG marketing model standard.
Ever think the "new marketing standard" is the downfall of mmorpgs ?
Ever ask how happy players are with the currant model, or are we simply putting up with it with no other choice.
Irrelevant my butt
15-20 years ago we had no other choice... today we have many choices and I enjoy the freedom of choice.
Yes we do, mmorpg's for 5 year old's, 6year old's, and 7.
Classics all come with amazing cash shops and money grabs.
Modern games now come with linear story lines, along with no need to play with others, no need to group, their much more enhanced with solo play.
What a great time to be alive.... hit that one key and Boom, everything is insta dead. We didn't have that feature when I was a kid. We had to kill it ourselves.
Now log in, get a cup of coffee, come back and collect all your loot
One can choose to play the more difficult content of their game of preference, the more difficult of games available, or both.
One can also choose to dismiss modern games outright and instead seek out their favourite of games of days past.
One can also choose to pretend these many options don't exist and spend their time lamenting the absence of that they choose not to see.
There is almost as much choice available is there is complaint about lack of choice.
I just quit a game I was testing because it was supposed to be open world PvP and it is now a linear theme park with opt-in PvP available.
The developer expressed the desire to make a game that appeals to everyone. It was pointed out by another poster that some things cannot co-exist.
You cannot have: Open World PvP and PvP Flagging Meaningful Economy and Everyone Crafts/No Looting/Easy Access to All Materials Rare Items and Everyone Gets A Gold Ring
Another good point that was made:
Why is it that the PvE crowd can come into a PvP game and demand an insular PvE experience and get it without being told to pound sand?
Can I go into a medieval fantasy game and demand laser blasters? Can I go into a space simulation and demand more hobbits?
^--- You'd get laughed off the forums. "Hey noob, this is a medieval fantasy game, so no, you cannot have laser blasters and alien invasions"
And yet PvE people can go into a game advertised as open world PvP and pitch a fit about how they want an insular solo PvE experience... and get it.
(I prefer PvE to PvP and in my entire career of gaming I've attacked others, unprovoked, maybe twice - so no, I'm not a lewt dOOd who likes to grief)
That's easy to answer.
The Personal In Charge, realized that The PvE crowed not only Outnumbers, but also Outspends the PvP one, so it's a no brainer that they will do whatever they can to keep them around.
All the jokes about money being the motivator should have told you that one. After all, almost everyone on this topic without fail, has explained that this is a product, with the end goal to make as much as it can before it expires.
League of Legends (100 million users), Battlefield Series, and others have made pOOp tons of money. PvP games can make a great deal of cash. I'll grant you nobody has managed to do terribly well at this in the MMORPG space.
But I don't think you go far enough - do we have any successful MMORPG games (PVE) anymore or have they all been converted to insular single player games where there just happens to be other people about?
The thing I worry about is I don't know if we'll ever get an open world PvP game (AAA) because any attempt in that direction gets shouted down. Everyone cries about 'consent', and 'unfair', and all that noise - I've really lost respect for humanity over the last 2 weeks.
I will say this: The first developer that puts out an innovative Open World PvP game is going to make bank. They have no competition.
So I agree with you it is about the money. I take exception in that I think an innovative open world title would really do well.
LOL, is a MOBA, as far as I know, it does not have PvE at all, next will to talk about how Fortnight is making billions as well?
There are tons of Survival games, which are, for all intents and purposes, Open World PvP MMO's.
The question is.. why re all the people who want to play Open World PvP games not making those games p00p tons of money.
As far as MMO's, YMMV on that one, but I loved the Co-Op nature of GW2, it really felt like what an MMO should aspire to, where people can just play together without all the baggage that most other MMO's pointlessly toss upon the players. The Dynamic Events, World Bosses, bar none, best game design ever, too bad they went and screwed with that to make the hardcore players happy, the people they cried endlessly about needing challenge.
GW2's reward for catering to the Hardcore players is getting hurt hard in the wallet over that blunder.. but that just goes to show, that they are not always really clued in with what will make the money, which brings us back to the main question.
Why is the Person in charge of making those calls, so seemingly out of touch. I mean, if Money is the Motive, why do they shoot themselves in the nuts sometimes and ruin their game, and thus not make more money?
I dunno.
Seems to me the smart choice when spinning up a new title is to make it configurable.
Have a server that is open world PvP; have a server that is Flagged PvP; have a server that is PvE only.
Let the players decide.
That is precisely the intent of the developers of Fractured,
I just quit a game I was testing because it was supposed to be open world PvP and it is now a linear theme park with opt-in PvP available.
The developer expressed the desire to make a game that appeals to everyone. It was pointed out by another poster that some things cannot co-exist.
You cannot have: Open World PvP and PvP Flagging Meaningful Economy and Everyone Crafts/No Looting/Easy Access to All Materials Rare Items and Everyone Gets A Gold Ring
Another good point that was made:
Why is it that the PvE crowd can come into a PvP game and demand an insular PvE experience and get it without being told to pound sand?
Can I go into a medieval fantasy game and demand laser blasters? Can I go into a space simulation and demand more hobbits?
^--- You'd get laughed off the forums. "Hey noob, this is a medieval fantasy game, so no, you cannot have laser blasters and alien invasions"
And yet PvE people can go into a game advertised as open world PvP and pitch a fit about how they want an insular solo PvE experience... and get it.
(I prefer PvE to PvP and in my entire career of gaming I've attacked others, unprovoked, maybe twice - so no, I'm not a lewt dOOd who likes to grief)
I think the reality is there is no such thing as PvP mmorpg.
Even in PvP mmorpg, most people spend most of their time making their character stronger than trying to kill other people. Essentially they care more about character progression than pvp.
The reality is most PvP players who don't want RPG part just play shooters or MOBA. And most sandbox players just play minecraft.
You may think solo players are weird in mmorpg. The reality is you are probably the wierdo who want a PvP game with character progression.
Ultima Online first ruleset (debatable) Dark Age of Camelot Warhammer Online Age of Conan (PvP Servers) Guild Wars 2 Archage Albion Etc.
In the works- Crowfall Camelot Unchained
PS - I play shooters too. But I love PvP in MMORPGs... but I also enjoy other content too (trading, dungeons, exploring, choosing skills, lore, RP). PvPrs aren't just 100% one type of game mode. PvP is the hardest form of PvE... scripted Raid bosses get predictable, humans are much more challenging. I'm not a griefer though, I think that's what pisses PvErs off about PvPrs.
Comments
It's like being in the Dentist office. While waiting, you pick up that magazine with a crossword puzzle, and it's already done...... you then tell the receptionist you did it, with a big smile on your face.
For melee, it was just a few hits.
It was a grinding game and therefore getting the most kills per hour was the way to play. Additionally, you would use shots that were empowered crystals to make your hits stronger. However, that cost money, and money was hard to come by.
I say all this because none of it was hard and it was all about making things as insta-dead as possible.
To that point, a friend I met in the game would have his then 6-year-old kid run around and just kill mobs and he loved it. Took nothing, no planning no strategy, you just killed stuff quickly.
So I would offer that the idea of hit one key and boom everything dead isn't a new thing.
I seem to remember that people have talked about Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot where they would round up as many mobs as possible and then quickly AoE them down and then rinse and repeat.
Heck, we would do that in Lineage 2 as well.
So these games have never been hard and really have never been about anything but "boom one shot and you are dead."
As far as cash shops and money grabs, players were using their wallets. they were just buying from 3rd party farmers and e-bay. the only difference today is that the developers get to make money over some other person running bots or live farmers and taking over an area.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Check out the preview footage.
The game is called Boom chocka-loka, Boom chocka-loka, available on Steam in July.
(1) EXPLOD 2000GRAMM Firecracker Insane - YouTube
The Personal In Charge, realized that The PvE crowed not only Outnumbers, but also Outspends the PvP one, so it's a no brainer that they will do whatever they can to keep them around.
All the jokes about money being the motivator should have told you that one. After all, almost everyone on this topic without fail, has explained that this is a product, with the end goal to make as much as it can before it expires.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
There are tons of Survival games, which are, for all intents and purposes, Open World PvP MMO's.
The question is.. why re all the people who want to play Open World PvP games not making those games p00p tons of money.
As far as MMO's, YMMV on that one, but I loved the Co-Op nature of GW2, it really felt like what an MMO should aspire to, where people can just play together without all the baggage that most other MMO's pointlessly toss upon the players. The Dynamic Events, World Bosses, bar none, best game design ever, too bad they went and screwed with that to make the hardcore players happy, the people they cried endlessly about needing challenge.
GW2's reward for catering to the Hardcore players is getting hurt hard in the wallet over that blunder.. but that just goes to show, that they are not always really clued in with what will make the money, which brings us back to the main question.
Why is the Person in charge of making those calls, so seemingly out of touch. I mean, if Money is the Motive, why do they shoot themselves in the nuts sometimes and ruin their game, and thus not make more money?
All we can do is look at what they do filtered through our own personal likes and dislikes. If they hit enough of my right spots then they're in touch with me. If they don't then they're damn fools!
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Doubtful any set out to make changes with intent to kill their cash cow.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
GW2, being a prime example, for me, but I am sure others can share similar tales of when their beloved MMO's took a turn down shit street.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
There are issues. I agree with you though.
"Gameplay you don't like!! Baked in!!" - Why aren't you buying our game???
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Kinda wonder why no one figured out that was a good idea to start with, before shitting the bed with bad ideas.
Even in PvP mmorpg, most people spend most of their time making their character stronger than trying to kill other people. Essentially they care more about character progression than pvp.
The reality is most PvP players who don't want RPG part just play shooters or MOBA. And most sandbox players just play minecraft.
You may think solo players are weird in mmorpg. The reality is you are probably the wierdo who want a PvP game with character progression.
Yes, that's right, I had forgotten about that. Considering some of what WoW has I didn't think it all that much worse, but perhaps the greater focus on it in WildStar went beyond what many could tolerate.
Winning is a play with several acts, of which the field is the finale. Though the win comes on the field it doesn't start there and ongoing success doesn't end there.
One can choose to play the more difficult content of their game of preference, the more difficult of games available, or both.
One can also choose to dismiss modern games outright and instead seek out their favourite of games of days past.
One can also choose to pretend these many options don't exist and spend their time lamenting the absence of that they choose not to see.
There is almost as much choice available is there is complaint about lack of choice.
That is precisely the intent of the developers of Fractured,
Dark Age of Camelot
Warhammer Online
Age of Conan (PvP Servers)
Guild Wars 2
Archage
Albion
Etc.
In the works-
Crowfall
Camelot Unchained
PS - I play shooters too. But I love PvP in MMORPGs... but I also enjoy other content too (trading, dungeons, exploring, choosing skills, lore, RP). PvPrs aren't just 100% one type of game mode. PvP is the hardest form of PvE... scripted Raid bosses get predictable, humans are much more challenging. I'm not a griefer though, I think that's what pisses PvErs off about PvPrs.