I do not like how many games use play 2 earn. I think blockchain pay to play is also poor implementation. I realize it's big business right now, but I feel like that will change in the future.
I find arguments against NFTs ridiculous and find that people against them either don't know what NFTs are, or don't realize that it's not the NFT causing the issue it's how they are being used that is.
I believe that play to earn or pay to earn is a gross overstatement of what may realistically happen.
When you buy an NFT there is no guarantee that you'll make more money from it than you spent. If you earn an NFT it doesn't mean that you'll always be able to sell it. Reality wise, you're not really playing to earn money, you're playing to earn items.
Tokens that can be traded, like in axie, again, kind of fall into this same distinction. You play and earn a solid amount of tokens that can be translated to real money, so you're playing to earn real money, but because of price fluctuations you might not even earn minimum wage, so if you're playing like it's a job, you're actually losing money over any basic job.
For games to succeed as games, I feel like the money portion should always be in addition to the games core.
If games choose to be more in line with gambling, that's okay, but I think we need to think about the possibilities of regulating them as gambling.
There's nothing wrong with making money and having fun doing it, of course. It's more along the lines that, selling a game as a guaranteed way to make money, even in the cases where you are guaranteed to make something with your time, can be misleading because what you earn may not translate to any kind of real, positive financial gain.
For me there is a dividing line when it comes to games.
There are the games that are designed to play, play, play and then there are the games designed to pay, pay, pay.
Regulations will be coming. The type of regulations that keep businesses that make the things you need from having business models like the gaming industry.
Imho the gaming industry believes that because they only produce fun, that the general rules that apply for the rest of us don’t apply to them. I’m sure grocery stores would love to stuff all the fresh produce into loot boxes.
If it’s good for the gaming industry, then why not the grocery store?
Except that...at days end gaming is still just entertainment, not falling into a things you need category therefore government won't be enticed to regulate it as it does food or other essentials.
However, P2E could well fall under weath generation which could draw an income or capital gains tax which all governments love.
Collecting sales, VAT taxes for these cash exchanges to and between players probably will interest most government's, heck, they might even go for trying to enact a virtual "property" tax for real valuable "land" exchanges.
Brave New World indeed.
We can argue that entertainment is a human need, it’s not just fluff. Its as old or older than those Neanderthal caves in France. I haven’t kept up to date on the latest discoveries.
I'm still confused just *how* you are going to make money playing a game. The money has to come from somewhere.
Let's say I play a game and start a farm. I build it up, etc. Is someone going to pay me for it? Why?
Or do I get money whenever someone else buys into the game? Like a pyramid scheme?
I can understand NFT as a type of art collecting. For example, someone takes a photo of themselves or makes a drawing of themselves, and then sells it as an NFT. (This is an actual case). If people want to have it, they'll pay for it.
But who would want an NFT of my farm? The game will be full of farms. Are they just buying my account? Or are they buying a picture of my farm as an NFT? Why would they do that?
Just like real life sales.
You have to figure out a way to make your farm stand out from all the others.
If I am good at that, I won’t be wasting it playing a game.
Stand out how? Why would someone pay real money for it? I have a house in LOTRO, I decorated it, etc. I can sell it to someone else if this is P2E? Sounds like selling my account.
Many times people create an account, play it, get a high level toon, etc, and then sell it. Is that how this works?
I'm still confused just *how* you are going to make money playing a game. The money has to come from somewhere.
Let's say I play a game and start a farm. I build it up, etc. Is someone going to pay me for it? Why?
Or do I get money whenever someone else buys into the game? Like a pyramid scheme?
I can understand NFT as a type of art collecting. For example, someone takes a photo of themselves or makes a drawing of themselves, and then sells it as an NFT. (This is an actual case). If people want to have it, they'll pay for it.
But who would want an NFT of my farm? The game will be full of farms. Are they just buying my account? Or are they buying a picture of my farm as an NFT? Why would they do that?
Just like real life sales.
You have to figure out a way to make your farm stand out from all the others.
If I am good at that, I won’t be wasting it playing a game.
Stand out how? Why would someone pay real money for it? I have a house in LOTRO, I decorated it, etc. I can sell it to someone else if this is P2E? Sounds like selling my account.
Many times people create an account, play it, get a high level toon, etc, and then sell it. Is that how this works?
I'm still confused just *how* you are going to make money playing a game. The money has to come from somewhere.
Let's say I play a game and start a farm. I build it up, etc. Is someone going to pay me for it? Why?
Or do I get money whenever someone else buys into the game? Like a pyramid scheme?
I can understand NFT as a type of art collecting. For example, someone takes a photo of themselves or makes a drawing of themselves, and then sells it as an NFT. (This is an actual case). If people want to have it, they'll pay for it.
But who would want an NFT of my farm? The game will be full of farms. Are they just buying my account? Or are they buying a picture of my farm as an NFT? Why would they do that?
Just like real life sales.
You have to figure out a way to make your farm stand out from all the others.
If I am good at that, I won’t be wasting it playing a game.
Stand out how? Why would someone pay real money for it? I have a house in LOTRO, I decorated it, etc. I can sell it to someone else if this is P2E? Sounds like selling my account.
Many times people create an account, play it, get a high level toon, etc, and then sell it. Is that how this works?
That's essentially it. If you're going "well, since I'm only using a set of predetermined assets that every other player has access to and is endlessly replicable, why wouldn't they just copy/pasta my layout into their own digital home for free?", then you're highlighting the issue with trying to use NFTs to declare ownership of digital assets that are endlessly replicable for free/no extra charge.
I'm still confused just *how* you are going to make money playing a game. The money has to come from somewhere.
Let's say I play a game and start a farm. I build it up, etc. Is someone going to pay me for it? Why?
Or do I get money whenever someone else buys into the game? Like a pyramid scheme?
I can understand NFT as a type of art collecting. For example, someone takes a photo of themselves or makes a drawing of themselves, and then sells it as an NFT. (This is an actual case). If people want to have it, they'll pay for it.
But who would want an NFT of my farm? The game will be full of farms. Are they just buying my account? Or are they buying a picture of my farm as an NFT? Why would they do that?
I tried to play a NFT game. And notice that before I can even start playing, I'd need to pay 1000$ to buy an NFT to play.
and you use the NFT to generate more NFT to sell to other new player.
I'm still confused just *how* you are going to make money playing a game. The money has to come from somewhere.
Let's say I play a game and start a farm. I build it up, etc. Is someone going to pay me for it? Why?
Or do I get money whenever someone else buys into the game? Like a pyramid scheme?
I can understand NFT as a type of art collecting. For example, someone takes a photo of themselves or makes a drawing of themselves, and then sells it as an NFT. (This is an actual case). If people want to have it, they'll pay for it.
But who would want an NFT of my farm? The game will be full of farms. Are they just buying my account? Or are they buying a picture of my farm as an NFT? Why would they do that?
Just like real life sales.
You have to figure out a way to make your farm stand out from all the others.
If I am good at that, I won’t be wasting it playing a game.
Stand out how? Why would someone pay real money for it? I have a house in LOTRO, I decorated it, etc. I can sell it to someone else if this is P2E? Sounds like selling my account.
Many times people create an account, play it, get a high level toon, etc, and then sell it. Is that how this works?
That's essentially it. If you're going "well, since I'm only using a set of predetermined assets that every other player has access to and is endlessly replicable, why wouldn't they just copy/pasta my layout into their own digital home for free?", then you're highlighting the issue with trying to use NFTs to declare ownership of digital assets that are endlessly replicable for free/no extra charge.
If it really works this way, then most people are not going to make any money. The sellers will greatly outnumber the buyers. It is essentially a form of speculation, like land speculation, except the underlying item has no intrinsic value.
Let's say I create a tree, and make an NFT out of it. It is unique because it has 12 red apples on it. Nobody else can have a tree with 12 red apples. 11 red apples, yes. 12 green apples, yes. But only one tree with 12 red apples, it is unique. Is someone really going to pay money for that?? Why? For bragging rights?
I'm still confused just *how* you are going to make money playing a game. The money has to come from somewhere.
Let's say I play a game and start a farm. I build it up, etc. Is someone going to pay me for it? Why?
Or do I get money whenever someone else buys into the game? Like a pyramid scheme?
I can understand NFT as a type of art collecting. For example, someone takes a photo of themselves or makes a drawing of themselves, and then sells it as an NFT. (This is an actual case). If people want to have it, they'll pay for it.
But who would want an NFT of my farm? The game will be full of farms. Are they just buying my account? Or are they buying a picture of my farm as an NFT? Why would they do that?
Without getting too deep into the weeds and citing ways and examples of how passive income is/can be genereated in games. I'll address your question.
Imagine WoW gold as a currency that could swap to USD. You play the game you earn items, you sell them just as you would in WoW. You collect that gold. You then are free to swap that gold for cash at anytime. Simple as that.
If it really works this way, then most people are not going to make any money. The sellers will greatly outnumber the buyers. It is essentially a form of speculation, like land speculation, except the underlying item has no intrinsic value.
Let's say I create a tree, and make an NFT out of it. It is unique because it has 12 red apples on it. Nobody else can have a tree with 12 red apples. 11 red apples, yes. 12 green apples, yes. But only one tree with 12 red apples, it is unique. Is someone really going to pay money for that?? Why? For bragging rights?
Most people absolutely won't. Granted, there's a difference in digital assets granted to you by a developer for use only in the game they create.
In the case of NFT art, however, it really is this simple. Here's my very own free piece of digital NFT art that sold for $6 million dollars, straight from the artist's own web page via copy/pasta:
To add insult to injury, check out the "Add to Collection" button on the right that allows you to bookmark these pieces of art so you can quickly find them to re-download and use in the future. You can't make this up.
I'm still confused just *how* you are going to make money playing a game. The money has to come from somewhere.
Let's say I play a game and start a farm. I build it up, etc. Is someone going to pay me for it? Why?
Or do I get money whenever someone else buys into the game? Like a pyramid scheme?
I can understand NFT as a type of art collecting. For example, someone takes a photo of themselves or makes a drawing of themselves, and then sells it as an NFT. (This is an actual case). If people want to have it, they'll pay for it.
But who would want an NFT of my farm? The game will be full of farms. Are they just buying my account? Or are they buying a picture of my farm as an NFT? Why would they do that?
Without getting too deep into the weeds and citing ways and examples of how passive income is/can be genereated in games. I'll address your question.
Imagine WoW gold as a currency that could swap to USD. You play the game you earn items, you sell them just as you would in WoW. You collect that gold. You then are free to swap that gold for cash at anytime. Simple as that.
That sounds like a cash shop. I want the Uber Sword of Doom, and I can get it by playing the game, or by buying it. If I've played enough and won the USoD, then I can sell it to someone else who doesn't want to play that much to get it?
In most games, you get in-game currency for completing a quest. Say 5 gold. There is no way I can convert that to real money and have the game stay in business. So I'll have to sell it to another player.
The money can only come from other players, there is no way it will passively increase by magic.
The title is highly misleading as is the intent of this thread.
It implies that any player playing an NFT based game will make money out of it. This is simply a false and clumsy pseudo-logical shortcut which says a lot about the real goal of this post.
The set of questions should be instead:
- Will I really make money from an NFT-based game?
- How much I am supposed to get if I invest that much?
and the most important one:
- What is the likeliness that my money investment turns into a loss?
No ser, those are the question you are asking for yourself. The only thing that maybe misleading is your preminision.
I will help though. The way you answer your questions are by taking the game you're looking at and doing a deep dive. What is it that your earning. How are you earning it. How long does it take to earn it. What tokens will the game be using. Does the game have a native token. Do you plan to play casually. Do you plan to play hardcore. What are your expectation. What does the road map look like. Who's running the game.
This is a breif list of questions. Weight them as you see fit. They will bring insight on the answers you seek.
I don't need your help, nor your contempt. And no, your questions are not addressing the main issue which is money earning vs loss. You are still not helping anyone here.
Now, yes your title IS misleading. Let's check it together:
"Is there something wrong with making money and having fun it doing it? P2E"
OK, I read "making money" + "having fun". This kind of rhetorical question is forcing an obvious "sign-me-in" answer without addressing nor highlighting any problem that NFTs incur. It is entirely obfuscating the fact you may need first to pay to try to earn. It is entirely hiding the fact that it can possibly result into a loss. It is entirely mute also on the fact that most player's earning will be close to negligible.
It IS mis-lead-ing.
This is surprising no reader since you are constantly defending NFTs, whatever the cost, which is clearly here your credibility as a genuine player-writer.
The title is highly misleading as is the intent of this thread.
It implies that any player playing an NFT based game will make money out of it. This is simply a false and clumsy pseudo-logical shortcut which says a lot about the real goal of this post.
The set of questions should be instead:
- Will I really make money from an NFT-based game?
- How much I am supposed to get if I invest that much?
and the most important one:
- What is the likeliness that my money investment turns into a loss?
No ser, those are the question you are asking for yourself. The only thing that maybe misleading is your preminision.
I will help though. The way you answer your questions are by taking the game you're looking at and doing a deep dive. What is it that your earning. How are you earning it. How long does it take to earn it. What tokens will the game be using. Does the game have a native token. Do you plan to play casually. Do you plan to play hardcore. What are your expectation. What does the road map look like. Who's running the game.
This is a breif list of questions. Weight them as you see fit. They will bring insight on the answers you seek.
I don't need your help, nor your contempt. And no, your questions are not addressing the main issue which is money earning vs loss. You are still not helping anyone here.
Now, yes your title IS misleading. Let's check it together:
"Is there something wrong with making money and having fun it doing it? P2E"
OK, I read "making money" + "having fun". This kind of rhetorical question is forcing an obvious "sign-me-in" answer without addressing nor highlighting any problem that NFTs incur. It is entirely obfuscating the fact you may need first to pay to try to earn. It is entirely hiding the fact that it can possibly result into a loss. It is entirely mute also on the fact that most player's earning will be close to negligible.
It IS mis-lead-ing.
This is surprising no reader since you are constantly defending NFTs, whatever the cost, which is clearly here your credibility as a genuine player-writer.
If you have to put in money first, then it is either gambling or a pyramid scheme.
In the horse-racing game, you breed horses, put up an entry fee, and the winner takes the money. That is straight up wagering. More losers than winners.
If you make money when other people put in money after you, then it's simply a pyramid scheme. The first people will make the most money, the people who came in last will lose theirs.
If it's case of other people paying you for your NFT asset, then you will only make money if someone else wants it.
The analogy of playing WoW and then converting your in-game gold to real money is false, where does the money come from? Not from the game maker.
I'm still confused just *how* you are going to make money playing a game. The money has to come from somewhere.
Let's say I play a game and start a farm. I build it up, etc. Is someone going to pay me for it? Why?
Or do I get money whenever someone else buys into the game? Like a pyramid scheme?
I can understand NFT as a type of art collecting. For example, someone takes a photo of themselves or makes a drawing of themselves, and then sells it as an NFT. (This is an actual case). If people want to have it, they'll pay for it.
But who would want an NFT of my farm? The game will be full of farms. Are they just buying my account? Or are they buying a picture of my farm as an NFT? Why would they do that?
Without getting too deep into the weeds and citing ways and examples of how passive income is/can be genereated in games. I'll address your question.
Imagine WoW gold as a currency that could swap to USD. You play the game you earn items, you sell them just as you would in WoW. You collect that gold. You then are free to swap that gold for cash at anytime. Simple as that.
Err, I can already do that in many games, perhaps not with the developers blessing, but the buying, selling, and trading of virtual assets for cash is thriving already, why do we need block chain, crypto, NFT's or whatever?
I've even seen website willing to buy my items for cash, so basically I would be playing to earn, so how is any of this really new, seems more like a gimmick to me.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The whole concept of P2E is confusing. The end player might interpret that as 'Play to Earn'. I'm pretty sure some developers think of it as 'Pay to Earn'. Easy to confuse one with the other. I'm not so sure that some of this forum's members don't mix up the two.
Overall, I don't think the P2E is really anything worthwhile. There is nothing tangible of value generated from the actual play, only entertainment. Entertainment cannot be traded from one person to another, therefore there is no product. Only gambling and risk.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I'm still confused just *how* you are going to make money playing a game. The money has to come from somewhere.
Let's say I play a game and start a farm. I build it up, etc. Is someone going to pay me for it? Why?
Or do I get money whenever someone else buys into the game? Like a pyramid scheme?
I can understand NFT as a type of art collecting. For example, someone takes a photo of themselves or makes a drawing of themselves, and then sells it as an NFT. (This is an actual case). If people want to have it, they'll pay for it.
But who would want an NFT of my farm? The game will be full of farms. Are they just buying my account? Or are they buying a picture of my farm as an NFT? Why would they do that?
Without getting too deep into the weeds and citing ways and examples of how passive income is/can be genereated in games. I'll address your question.
Imagine WoW gold as a currency that could swap to USD. You play the game you earn items, you sell them just as you would in WoW. You collect that gold. You then are free to swap that gold for cash at anytime. Simple as that.
That sounds like a cash shop. I want the Uber Sword of Doom, and I can get it by playing the game, or by buying it. If I've played enough and won the USoD, then I can sell it to someone else who doesn't want to play that much to get it?
Staying with the WoW example. You got the uber sword of doom drop. from red ble black dragon. You list it on the auction house. the 19 other people in your raid could buy that. The guy who just likes to stand by the auction house and look good can buy it. No change.
Let's say you like to mine ore. You have stacks. You list your stacks. The next guy needs ore to make a musket, but doesn't have the skill to mine the ore. He buys your ore. No change.
In most games, you get in-game currency for completing a quest. Say 5 gold. There is no way I can convert that to real money and have the game stay in business. So I'll have to sell it to another player.
Into the weeds. Staying with WoW and the gold scenario. You just completed a quest for 5g. That gold goes into you wallet. You can now swap that gold on a Decentralized Exchange (outside of game) from it's equivalent in USDC. https://app.uniswap.org/#/swap - This exchange processes an upwards of a billion dollars per day. You would select WoWG (WoW gold coin) on the top line and then select what you want to swap that into. In this case USDC (US Dollar Coin).
The money can only come from other players, there is no way it will passively increase by magic.
Let's look at passive income, which is different from above. There are games right now where you can do whats call staking of that games currency. Staking is providing liquidity. For providing liquidity, you earn a portion of the fee generated each time that currency is used in a swap.
Let's use WoW again. Lets say you sold your stack of ore. You want to keep it. You don't want to use uniswap to convert that WoWG into USDC. You can just hold it in your wallet for when you want to buy something, or if there is nothing you need to purchase at this time you could stake'/provide liquidity.
An example of gamified staking would be depositing you WoWG in The Bank of Iron forge. The bank of Iron Forge would then give you a portion of each fee each time WoWG is swaped on Uniswap. To keep it simple, lets say you are providing 1% of the total liquidity of WoWG in the Iron Forge bank, and the fee on a particular swap was $1 you would receive the equivalent of 1c of WoWG added to your Bank of Ironforge deposit. You will receive a portion of those fees every time., thus generating passive income.
There is nothing far out/futuristic or mysterious about any of this, no magic.
The real magic is how banks continue to get people to deposit liquidity, give them no protion of the fees generated and go as far to charge the person who provided liquidity a fee! lol That's a thread for another forum though.
inb4 - all of this recieves no comment and next posters says NFTs are gambling
I'm still confused just *how* you are going to make money playing a game. The money has to come from somewhere.
Let's say I play a game and start a farm. I build it up, etc. Is someone going to pay me for it? Why?
Or do I get money whenever someone else buys into the game? Like a pyramid scheme?
I can understand NFT as a type of art collecting. For example, someone takes a photo of themselves or makes a drawing of themselves, and then sells it as an NFT. (This is an actual case). If people want to have it, they'll pay for it.
But who would want an NFT of my farm? The game will be full of farms. Are they just buying my account? Or are they buying a picture of my farm as an NFT? Why would they do that?
Without getting too deep into the weeds and citing ways and examples of how passive income is/can be genereated in games. I'll address your question.
Imagine WoW gold as a currency that could swap to USD. You play the game you earn items, you sell them just as you would in WoW. You collect that gold. You then are free to swap that gold for cash at anytime. Simple as that.
That sounds like a cash shop. I want the Uber Sword of Doom, and I can get it by playing the game, or by buying it. If I've played enough and won the USoD, then I can sell it to someone else who doesn't want to play that much to get it?
Staying with the WoW example. You got the uber sword of doom drop. from red ble black dragon. You list it on the auction house. the 19 other people in your raid could buy that. The guy who just likes to stand by the auction house and look good can buy it. No change.
Let's say you like to mine ore. You have stacks. You list your stacks. The next guy needs ore to make a musket, but doesn't have the skill to mine the ore. He buys your ore. No change.
In most games, you get in-game currency for completing a quest. Say 5 gold. There is no way I can convert that to real money and have the game stay in business. So I'll have to sell it to another player.
Into the weeds. Staying with WoW and the gold scenario. You just completed a quest for 5g. That gold goes into you wallet. You can now swap that gold on a Decentralized Exchange (outside of game) from it's equivalent in USDC. https://app.uniswap.org/#/swap - This exchange processes an upwards of a billion dollars per day. You would select WoWG (WoW gold coin) on the top line and then select what you want to swap that into. In this case USDC (US Dollar Coin).
The money can only come from other players, there is no way it will passively increase by magic.
Let's look at passive income, which is different from above. There are games right now where you can do whats call staking of that games currency. Staking is providing liquidity. For providing liquidity, you earn a portion of the fee generated each time that currency is used in a swap.
Let's use WoW again. Lets say you sold your stack of ore. You want to keep it. You don't want to use uniswap to convert that WoWG into USDC. You can just hold it in your wallet for when you want to buy something, or if there is nothing you need to purchase at this time you could stake'/provide liquidity.
An example of gamified staking would be depositing you WoWG in The Bank of Iron forge. The bank of Iron Forge would then give you a portion of each fee each time WoWG is swaped on Uniswap. To keep it simple, lets say you are providing 1% of the total liquidity of WoWG in the Iron Forge bank, and the fee on a particular swap was $1 you would receive the equivalent of 1c of WoWG added to your Bank of Ironforge deposit. You will receive a portion of those fees every time., thus generating passive income.
There is nothing far out/futuristic or mysterious about any of this, no magic.
The real magic is how banks continue to get people to deposit liquidity, give them no protion of the fees generated and go as far to charge the person who provided liquidity a fee! lol
inb4 - all of these recieves no comment and next posters says NFTs are gambling
Providing liquidity and staking a games currency sounds like you are putting *in* money.
Staying with the WoW example, I mine a stack of ore, sell it for 10 WoW gold. Exactly *how* is this converted to real cash? Someone else has to buy it, right? Where does that cash come from? My "stake" that I initially put in?
I'm still confused just *how* you are going to make money playing a game. The money has to come from somewhere.
Let's say I play a game and start a farm. I build it up, etc. Is someone going to pay me for it? Why?
Or do I get money whenever someone else buys into the game? Like a pyramid scheme?
I can understand NFT as a type of art collecting. For example, someone takes a photo of themselves or makes a drawing of themselves, and then sells it as an NFT. (This is an actual case). If people want to have it, they'll pay for it.
But who would want an NFT of my farm? The game will be full of farms. Are they just buying my account? Or are they buying a picture of my farm as an NFT? Why would they do that?
Without getting too deep into the weeds and citing ways and examples of how passive income is/can be genereated in games. I'll address your question.
Imagine WoW gold as a currency that could swap to USD. You play the game you earn items, you sell them just as you would in WoW. You collect that gold. You then are free to swap that gold for cash at anytime. Simple as that.
That sounds like a cash shop. I want the Uber Sword of Doom, and I can get it by playing the game, or by buying it. If I've played enough and won the USoD, then I can sell it to someone else who doesn't want to play that much to get it?
Staying with the WoW example. You got the uber sword of doom drop. from red ble black dragon. You list it on the auction house. the 19 other people in your raid could buy that. The guy who just likes to stand by the auction house and look good can buy it. No change.
Let's say you like to mine ore. You have stacks. You list your stacks. The next guy needs ore to make a musket, but doesn't have the skill to mine the ore. He buys your ore. No change.
In most games, you get in-game currency for completing a quest. Say 5 gold. There is no way I can convert that to real money and have the game stay in business. So I'll have to sell it to another player.
Into the weeds. Staying with WoW and the gold scenario. You just completed a quest for 5g. That gold goes into you wallet. You can now swap that gold on a Decentralized Exchange (outside of game) from it's equivalent in USDC. https://app.uniswap.org/#/swap - This exchange processes an upwards of a billion dollars per day. You would select WoWG (WoW gold coin) on the top line and then select what you want to swap that into. In this case USDC (US Dollar Coin).
The money can only come from other players, there is no way it will passively increase by magic.
Let's look at passive income, which is different from above. There are games right now where you can do whats call staking of that games currency. Staking is providing liquidity. For providing liquidity, you earn a portion of the fee generated each time that currency is used in a swap.
Let's use WoW again. Lets say you sold your stack of ore. You want to keep it. You don't want to use uniswap to convert that WoWG into USDC. You can just hold it in your wallet for when you want to buy something, or there is nothing you need to purchase at this time you could stake'/provide liquidity.
An example of gamified staking would be depositing you WoWG in The Bank of Iron forge. The bank of Iron Forge would then give you a portion of each fee each time WoWG is swaped on Uniswap. To keep it simple, lets say you are providing 1% of the total liquidity of WoWG in the Iron Forge bank, and the fee on a particular swap was $1 you would receive the equivalent of 1c of WoWG added to your Bank of Ironforge deposit. You will receive a portion of those fees every time., thus generating passive income.
There is nothing far out/futuristic or mysterious about any of this, no magic.
The real magic is how banks continue to get people to deposit liquidity, give them no protion of the fees generated and go as far to charge the person who provided liquidity a fee! lol
inb4 - all of these recieves no comment and next posters says NFTs are gambling
That's easy, security, accounting, managing financial and trade transactions, all part of the services banks sell to help people manage and track their wealth.
Unlike crypto, banks generally protect their customers from unexpected losses due to criminal or fraudulent activities, both external and internal btw.
They regularly work with governments to recover ill gotten gains, even managing to seize large portions of ransomware payments made in crypto, because at some point the bad guys have to try and spend their loot and there are agencies and banks tracking that worldwide.
Great news BTW, while slow to the party the big banks are figuring out where they can influence and make money in cryptocurrency and block chain.
Already starting to swing their lobbiests towards getting regulators to require more safety and controls, which the larger players will be well suited to servicing.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm still confused just *how* you are going to make money playing a game. The money has to come from somewhere.
Let's say I play a game and start a farm. I build it up, etc. Is someone going to pay me for it? Why?
Or do I get money whenever someone else buys into the game? Like a pyramid scheme?
I can understand NFT as a type of art collecting. For example, someone takes a photo of themselves or makes a drawing of themselves, and then sells it as an NFT. (This is an actual case). If people want to have it, they'll pay for it.
But who would want an NFT of my farm? The game will be full of farms. Are they just buying my account? Or are they buying a picture of my farm as an NFT? Why would they do that?
Without getting too deep into the weeds and citing ways and examples of how passive income is/can be genereated in games. I'll address your question.
Imagine WoW gold as a currency that could swap to USD. You play the game you earn items, you sell them just as you would in WoW. You collect that gold. You then are free to swap that gold for cash at anytime. Simple as that.
That sounds like a cash shop. I want the Uber Sword of Doom, and I can get it by playing the game, or by buying it. If I've played enough and won the USoD, then I can sell it to someone else who doesn't want to play that much to get it?
Staying with the WoW example. You got the uber sword of doom drop. from red ble black dragon. You list it on the auction house. the 19 other people in your raid could buy that. The guy who just likes to stand by the auction house and look good can buy it. No change.
Let's say you like to mine ore. You have stacks. You list your stacks. The next guy needs ore to make a musket, but doesn't have the skill to mine the ore. He buys your ore. No change.
In most games, you get in-game currency for completing a quest. Say 5 gold. There is no way I can convert that to real money and have the game stay in business. So I'll have to sell it to another player.
Into the weeds. Staying with WoW and the gold scenario. You just completed a quest for 5g. That gold goes into you wallet. You can now swap that gold on a Decentralized Exchange (outside of game) from it's equivalent in USDC. https://app.uniswap.org/#/swap - This exchange processes an upwards of a billion dollars per day. You would select WoWG (WoW gold coin) on the top line and then select what you want to swap that into. In this case USDC (US Dollar Coin).
The money can only come from other players, there is no way it will passively increase by magic.
Let's look at passive income, which is different from above. There are games right now where you can do whats call staking of that games currency. Staking is providing liquidity. For providing liquidity, you earn a portion of the fee generated each time that currency is used in a swap.
Let's use WoW again. Lets say you sold your stack of ore. You want to keep it. You don't want to use uniswap to convert that WoWG into USDC. You can just hold it in your wallet for when you want to buy something, or if there is nothing you need to purchase at this time you could stake'/provide liquidity.
An example of gamified staking would be depositing you WoWG in The Bank of Iron forge. The bank of Iron Forge would then give you a portion of each fee each time WoWG is swaped on Uniswap. To keep it simple, lets say you are providing 1% of the total liquidity of WoWG in the Iron Forge bank, and the fee on a particular swap was $1 you would receive the equivalent of 1c of WoWG added to your Bank of Ironforge deposit. You will receive a portion of those fees every time., thus generating passive income.
There is nothing far out/futuristic or mysterious about any of this, no magic.
The real magic is how banks continue to get people to deposit liquidity, give them no protion of the fees generated and go as far to charge the person who provided liquidity a fee! lol
inb4 - all of these recieves no comment and next posters says NFTs are gambling
Providing liquidity and staking a games currency sounds like you are putting *in* money.
Staying with the WoW example, I mine a stack of ore, sell it for 10 WoW gold. Exactly *how* is this converted to real cash? Someone else has to buy it, right? Where does that cash come from? My "stake" that I initially put in?
Great question.
You see that decentralized exchanged i listed? Check it out. Its a decentralized AMM, automatic market maker. A marvel of technolgy.
Liquidity is stored in the smart contract for swaps, trades, No one person per say is buying it when you swap it. It's extracted from the liquidity provided, in our example the deposits form the iron forge bank. A mathmatical reblancing takes place. Feel free to look up AMMs and how they work. Uniswap is a great one to look into.
On the other hand when someone whats to buy WoWG the same thing takes place. WoWG is taken form the smart contract and USDC is added.
The whole concept of P2E is confusing. The end player might interpret that as 'Play to Earn'. I'm pretty sure some developers think of it as 'Pay to Earn'. Easy to confuse one with the other. I'm not so sure that some of this forum's members don't mix up the two.
Overall, I don't think the P2E is really anything worthwhile. There is nothing tangible of value generated from the actual play, only entertainment. Entertainment cannot be traded from one person to another, therefore there is no product. Only gambling and risk.
Great point, I was using the two terms interchangeably when they really aren't but it might not matter much.
Some (many, most?) of these "block chain" games require the customers to buy in first, paying for assets to get started making money. (pay to start earning)
Not really all that different though than any other B2P model where one has to buy the base game in order to play.
Regardless of the entry mechanics, once in players even now can earn real money by selling what they "earned" from playing, though they might have to turn to illicit or fuzzy distribution channels to peddle their in game goods.
Again, mostly all just a new twist on an activity which has been going on in gaming since it's birth, trading of virtual goods for real life cash, just provides another way the developers can get their cut.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The whole concept of P2E is confusing. The end player might interpret that as 'Play to Earn'. I'm pretty sure some developers think of it as 'Pay to Earn'. Easy to confuse one with the other. I'm not so sure that some of this forum's members don't mix up the two.
Overall, I don't think the P2E is really anything worthwhile. There is nothing tangible of value generated from the actual play, only entertainment. Entertainment cannot be traded from one person to another, therefore there is no product. Only gambling and risk.
Great point, I was using the two terms interchangeably when they really aren't but it might not matter much.
Some (many, most?) of these "block chain" games require the customers to buy in first, paying for assets to get started making money. (pay to start earning)
Not really all that different though than any other B2P model where one has to buy the base game in order to play.
Regardless of the entry mechanics, once in players even now can earn real money by selling what they "earned" from playing, though they might have to turn to illicit or fuzzy distribution channels to peddle their in game goods.
Again, mostly all just a new twist on an activity which has been going on in gaming since it's birth, trading of virtual goods for real life cash, just provides another way the developers can get their cut.
That's easy, security, accounting, managing financial and trade transactions, all part of the services banks sell to help people manage and track their wealth.
Unlike crypto, banks generally protect their customers from unexpected losses due to criminal or fraudulent activities, both external and internal btw.
They regularly work with governments to recover ill gotten gains, even managing to seize large portions of ransomware payments made in crypto, because at some point the bad guys have to try and spend their loot and there are agencies and banks tracking that worldwide.
Great news BTW, while slow to the party the big banks are figuring out where they can influence and make money in cryptocurrency and block chain.
Already starting to swing their lobbiests towards getting regulators to require more safety and controls, which the larger players will be well suited to servicing.
This is a good point. As far as I know, cryptocurrency is not FDIC insured. If someone hacks the chain, maybe they can't resell, but they can freeze your assets and you have little recourse. If someone hacks a bank's system and steals your money or the bank folds due to poor management (or, more apropos, poor IT security that results in such a catastrophic hack), that's insured.
EDIT: I want to note here that the risk of such a hack is reduced considerably in the context of a business using a private blockchain system, where the users who can validate transactions and keep the "ledger" of transactions must be verified before being allowed access to the blockchain network. In this context, blockchain seems very useful for the internal accounting and transaction management almost every business needs, and could even be extended to trusted business partners if needed.
The title is highly misleading as is the intent of this thread.
It implies that any player playing an NFT based game will make money out of it. This is simply a false and clumsy pseudo-logical shortcut which says a lot about the real goal of this post.
The set of questions should be instead:
- Will I really make money from an NFT-based game?
- How much I am supposed to get if I invest that much?
and the most important one:
- What is the likeliness that my money investment turns into a loss?
What I notice about the media is that they take they focus on the success and not the loss.....I remember not long ago there was an article saying some guy bet half a million on Tiger Woods to win a certain major tournament.....and he did.....THe guy made millions....What it did not say is how many other times he bet on Tiger Woods (or someone else) and lost huge sums of money.
I have a hard time believing that if I play a game with NFTs and invest in it, that I will walk away in a year with a huge profit.....The odds are much greater that it collapses and I lose everything. Do people think that in 10-20 years these games will even be around? They are aimed to make companies money quickly and try to lure in investors with the hopes of getting rich.
The title is highly misleading as is the intent of this thread.
It implies that any player playing an NFT based game will make money out of it. This is simply a false and clumsy pseudo-logical shortcut which says a lot about the real goal of this post.
The set of questions should be instead:
- Will I really make money from an NFT-based game?
- How much I am supposed to get if I invest that much?
and the most important one:
- What is the likeliness that my money investment turns into a loss?
What I notice about the media is that they take they focus on the success and not the loss.....I remember not long ago there was an article saying some guy bet half a million on Tiger Woods to win a certain major tournament.....and he did.....THe guy made millions....What it did not say is how many other times he bet on Tiger Woods (or someone else) and lost huge sums of money.
I have a hard time believing that if I play a game with NFTs and invest in it, that I will walk away in a year with a huge profit.....The odds are much greater that it collapses and I lose everything. Do people think that in 10-20 years these games will even be around? They are aimed to make companies money quickly and try to lure in investors with the hopes of getting rich.
Lose what? Do you feel like you've lost everything when a game shuts down after you've paid a sub, or after you bought a box, or after you bought things from the cash shop?
Paying $50-$00 to play a good game isn't a problem for anyone I don't believe.
The game has to be good though. No one including myself whats to grind a bad game for cash.
I think what most have a problem with here are the huge secondary market prices. Instantly, who would pay that, why? Someone is trying to scam me.
Primary market/minting for a good/promising game is always much better .05-.1 ETH, around 200-400$ as of typing. That's still a large number, but no different than top teir founders packs.
I think in large part those eye popping numbers are due to there not being many quality projects out there. Once minted players have a lot of pricing power, all the pricing power on those limited items.
There are some really interesting games out there will soon be doing mints, like Sidius. you have to find them though. You have to do the research. You have to be ready when the mint goes live. That's part of the premium on the secondary market as well.
Could you lose value on your initial purchase, sure. You know what the difference is? If a presale item is given as a NFT, at least you have value to lose.... As we've seen so many time in the past, there is 0 value in traditional pre-sale items... especially if the game doesn't launch.
People don't lose money in most games, unless you consider buying a box as losing money. Buying skins? Buying xp pots? Are these things losing money?
Same applies here in P2E games. Buying an avatar or ship to play, buying skins, buying xp pots. Same things.
As I often say in arguments about pay to win, the real question is, pay how much to win? If I play a game for a week, decide I don't like it, and quit, then how much did that cost me? $10? Sure. $20? Fine. $500? That's a problem.
Part of the problem is that "play to earn" games are likely to be predatory in their efforts at getting people to pay a ton of money. Yes, you pay hundreds of dollars up front, but they dangle the hope that you can make back even more.
And what happens if you learn that you dislike the game? You're surely not going to make back a bunch of money after you quit. Do you really want to keep playing a game even after you know that it's not fun, in hopes that you could make money at it? Or at least justify your having spent hundreds of dollars on the game?
But what has the potential to really make the game predatory is trying to convince players to throw good money after bad in hopes of making back what they've spent. You spend a few hundred up front, can't get it back, but it looks like if you spent a few hundred more on something else, that could pay off later. So you try it once, and then again, and then again. And before you know it you're out thousands of dollars that you never intended to spend--and maybe even can't afford to lose. That happens all the time at casinos, and at least some pay to earn games surely plan to make money off of the same effect.
It's plausible that there will be "play to earn" games where you can make a few dollars here and there if you're good, and without having to spend a ton of money up front. Even so, making $10 off a game isn't going to change my life, but the things that people will try to do to make that little bit of money can wreck a game community in a hurry. If you think PVPers are toxic when it's just bragging rights at stake, wait till you see how they behave when there's real money on the line.
Comments
Going to have to check that out
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I tried to play a NFT game. And notice that before I can even start playing, I'd need to pay 1000$ to buy an NFT to play.
and you use the NFT to generate more NFT to sell to other new player.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Imagine WoW gold as a currency that could swap to USD. You play the game you earn items, you sell them just as you would in WoW. You collect that gold. You then are free to swap that gold for cash at anytime. Simple as that.
In the case of NFT art, however, it really is this simple. Here's my very own free piece of digital NFT art that sold for $6 million dollars, straight from the artist's own web page via copy/pasta:
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/w8mBnO
To add insult to injury, check out the "Add to Collection" button on the right that allows you to bookmark these pieces of art so you can quickly find them to re-download and use in the future. You can't make this up.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
I've even seen website willing to buy my items for cash, so basically I would be playing to earn, so how is any of this really new, seems more like a gimmick to me.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
The real magic is how banks continue to get people to deposit liquidity, give them no protion of the fees generated and go as far to charge the person who provided liquidity a fee! lol
inb4 - all of this recieves no comment and next posters says NFTs are gambling
The monies going to come out of someone's pocket and into another's.
Caveat Emptor
But we can't be having special rules for special people.
Imho
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Unlike crypto, banks generally protect their customers from unexpected losses due to criminal or fraudulent activities, both external and internal btw.
They regularly work with governments to recover ill gotten gains, even managing to seize large portions of ransomware payments made in crypto, because at some point the bad guys have to try and spend their loot and there are agencies and banks tracking that worldwide.
Great news BTW, while slow to the party the big banks are figuring out where they can influence and make money in cryptocurrency and block chain.
Already starting to swing their lobbiests towards getting regulators to require more safety and controls, which the larger players will be well suited to servicing.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You see that decentralized exchanged i listed? Check it out. Its a decentralized AMM, automatic market maker. A marvel of technolgy.
Liquidity is stored in the smart contract for swaps, trades, No one person per say is buying it when you swap it. It's extracted from the liquidity provided, in our example the deposits form the iron forge bank. A mathmatical reblancing takes place. Feel free to look up AMMs and how they work. Uniswap is a great one to look into.
On the other hand when someone whats to buy WoWG the same thing takes place. WoWG is taken form the smart contract and USDC is added.
Some (many, most?) of these "block chain" games require the customers to buy in first, paying for assets to get started making money. (pay to start earning)
Not really all that different though than any other B2P model where one has to buy the base game in order to play.
Regardless of the entry mechanics, once in players even now can earn real money by selling what they "earned" from playing, though they might have to turn to illicit or fuzzy distribution channels to peddle their in game goods.
Again, mostly all just a new twist on an activity which has been going on in gaming since it's birth, trading of virtual goods for real life cash, just provides another way the developers can get their cut.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EDIT: I want to note here that the risk of such a hack is reduced considerably in the context of a business using a private blockchain system, where the users who can validate transactions and keep the "ledger" of transactions must be verified before being allowed access to the blockchain network. In this context, blockchain seems very useful for the internal accounting and transaction management almost every business needs, and could even be extended to trusted business partners if needed.
Paying $50-$00 to play a good game isn't a problem for anyone I don't believe.
The game has to be good though. No one including myself whats to grind a bad game for cash.
I think what most have a problem with here are the huge secondary market prices. Instantly, who would pay that, why? Someone is trying to scam me.
Primary market/minting for a good/promising game is always much better .05-.1 ETH, around 200-400$ as of typing. That's still a large number, but no different than top teir founders packs.
I think in large part those eye popping numbers are due to there not being many quality projects out there. Once minted players have a lot of pricing power, all the pricing power on those limited items.
There are some really interesting games out there will soon be doing mints, like Sidius. you have to find them though. You have to do the research. You have to be ready when the mint goes live. That's part of the premium on the secondary market as well.
Could you lose value on your initial purchase, sure. You know what the difference is? If a presale item is given as a NFT, at least you have value to lose.... As we've seen so many time in the past, there is 0 value in traditional pre-sale items... especially if the game doesn't launch.
Part of the problem is that "play to earn" games are likely to be predatory in their efforts at getting people to pay a ton of money. Yes, you pay hundreds of dollars up front, but they dangle the hope that you can make back even more.
And what happens if you learn that you dislike the game? You're surely not going to make back a bunch of money after you quit. Do you really want to keep playing a game even after you know that it's not fun, in hopes that you could make money at it? Or at least justify your having spent hundreds of dollars on the game?
But what has the potential to really make the game predatory is trying to convince players to throw good money after bad in hopes of making back what they've spent. You spend a few hundred up front, can't get it back, but it looks like if you spent a few hundred more on something else, that could pay off later. So you try it once, and then again, and then again. And before you know it you're out thousands of dollars that you never intended to spend--and maybe even can't afford to lose. That happens all the time at casinos, and at least some pay to earn games surely plan to make money off of the same effect.
It's plausible that there will be "play to earn" games where you can make a few dollars here and there if you're good, and without having to spend a ton of money up front. Even so, making $10 off a game isn't going to change my life, but the things that people will try to do to make that little bit of money can wreck a game community in a hurry. If you think PVPers are toxic when it's just bragging rights at stake, wait till you see how they behave when there's real money on the line.