Why Do You Think Old-School MMO Design Is So Alluring To Fans Of The Genre Even Today? | MMORPG.com

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Why Do You Think Old-School MMO Design Is So Alluring To Fans Of The Genre Even Today? | MMORPG.com

Many MMOs come out of the woodwork professing to bring back the feel of old-school MMOs. From the recent release of Ember's Adrift, to Pantheon which takes cues from the early days of the MMORPG genre, this is an alluring concept to prospective players.What about it is so alluring?

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Spiider

Old school mmos are loved only by the old school players. Which is about 5% of the overall playerbase. Also old mmos were made by gamers and not by accountants, as they are today. Start there are every question will be answered. Why do games suck today, why are they shallow, money grabbing, short lived disasters.

mcrippins

It wasn't only about the money

OG_Solareus

less arthritis?

irnbru69

Spiider said:

Old school mmos are loved only by the old school players. Which is about 5% of the overall playerbase. Also old mmos were made by gamers and not by accountants, as they are today. Start there are every question will be answered. Why do games suck today, why are they shallow, money grabbing, short lived disasters.

mate we are all in the 5% when it comes to how big the mobile gaming market is, so dont try marginalize the statistics when the stats are clear. Gamers have gotten older, most kids are on fortnite or minecraft or roblox so the demographics are completely different.

Gamers prefer old games because they where better its just straight facts, games where designed with fun and challenge in mind. Now they are designed and integrated with mtx. Its not a conspiracy or some big unknown mystery.

These days publishers like EA have been ruining and running the market for years pushing the developers to the side when the content is complete to hire artists for MTX.

Developers dont even own their assets these days, that is why so many of them turn to other funding sources.

Iselin

It isn't to me. I like modern action-focused MMOs that force quick decision-making much better.

2TonGamer

The big thing for me is not having everything cool being in a store. When my wife and played WoW Classic it was nice to earn everything in the game and not be shown some cool new cosmetic or mount that was store only every time you logged in. ESO is one of the most flagrant with what you can earn vs whats in the store and please do not mention endeavors as a way to gain whats in the store through in-game work because that is not the same thing.

giantessfan

I think its just rose tinted glasses to be honest. Its not like a WoW classic where Blizzard was wrong that people wouldn't play Classic WoW.

I honestly believe that the people who want an old school MMO doesn't really want an old school MMO. What they are asking for is a game where the time you put into it matters, that there is a need for social interaction like the old school days, and the like.

I think if a game like Pantheon actually releases even old school fans will drop it like a bad habit. Who has time for insane death mechanics and the like anymore? The patience to deal with it?

Slapshot1188

Because most of today's MMORPGs are not MMORPGs.

The RPG elements are stripped away and instead of your character's skill mattering, it's how fast you can click or jump like Mario. Instead of becoming a character who grows and progresses, today we play ourselves in a costume, changing skills with a click of the button. First I'm a mage, but now I hit a button and I am a Warrior! Then later I will click another button and be a Healer...

Then the Massively Multiplayer elements are equally nerfed. Who needs 5000 players on a server when you can solo through all content?

I stand by my belief that a game like DAoC remade with the same game elements, but with some QOL improvements and today's graphics, UI and net coding would be a huge hit.

Sure- Action games, just like consoles.. and now mobile, are popular with a wide section of the public. But that is not what the genre was founded on. I am fine with fans of those having plenty of games to play. I just wish we had a few actual modern MMORPGs. We deserve better than having to choose between games that launched like Shroud of the Avatar and Ember's Adrift.

Kozo25

there is nothing else out there that compares. As sad as that is, It is a smalller community for sure. But eq has depth and the depth means something. You have to be maxxed to raid end game still. Just my opinion is all )

Xiaoki

Because change is scary.

Also,  MMOs are not attracting new and young players so the main player base is old.

Viper482

giantessfan said:

I think its just rose tinted glasses to be honest. Its not like a WoW classic where Blizzard was wrong that people wouldn't play Classic WoW.



I honestly believe that the people who want an old school MMO doesn't really want an old school MMO. What they are asking for is a game where the time you put into it matters, that there is a need for social interaction like the old school days, and the like.



I think if a game like Pantheon actually releases even old school fans will drop it like a bad habit. Who has time for insane death mechanics and the like anymore? The patience to deal with it?

I don't 100% agree, but I agree with some of what you said. The social part of old school MMOs is what really made them special. I don't think there are any rose tinted glasses involved at all just because we may prefer some modern quality of life features old school MMOs did not possess. The things that made MMORPGs special back in the day are the things we would want to keep. You can keep the good from the old and new and still get the same effect.

giantessfan

Viper482 said:

giantessfan said:

I think its just rose tinted glasses to be honest. Its not like a WoW classic where Blizzard was wrong that people wouldn't play Classic WoW.





I honestly believe that the people who want an old school MMO doesn't really want an old school MMO. What they are asking for is a game where the time you put into it matters, that there is a need for social interaction like the old school days, and the like.





I think if a game like Pantheon actually releases even old school fans will drop it like a bad habit. Who has time for insane death mechanics and the like anymore? The patience to deal with it?

I don't 100% agree, but I agree with some of what you said. The social part of old school MMOs is what really made them special. I don't think there are any rose tinted glasses involved at all just because we may prefer some modern quality of life features old school MMOs did not possess. The things that made MMORPGs special back in the day are the things we would want to keep. You can keep the good from the old and new and still get the same effect.

Well see I think this is the problem. I think the perfect MMO would blend old school and newer MMO's together in the perfect package. However, how much of a blend turns away old players. I mean on the Pantheon Discord people go freaking nuts if you mention the slightest tweak that would fundamentally make the game better and easier for new players. Ones that wouldn't even destroy what the game would be. It will still be very old school.

However, a majority say that it would ruin what Pantheon is trying to do be a true sequel to Everquest. The problem with that thinking is a sequel needs QoL improvements. It needs to evolve and change a little. Yet only a small population on that discord understand it.

Aeander

I do miss when games understood what made good faction pvp. Not just arenas. Not open world FFA gankfests.

Realm vs. Realm. It's a lost art, and it's one of the few things an MMO can offer that other genres don't do better.

losthewar

Everquest PVP is not dead!
Rise of Zek has a trak record for releasing full pvp seasons.
Right now they are dropping a custom pvp box!
Coming in Jan

Join their discord for server info

https://discord.gg/Zwhmj9CYj8

Raagnarz

SImply put because people with actual intelligence played those games. There wasn't hand holding. They were deep and developed by people who loved games and not by accountants. Most importantly they were actual games not real life wallet simulators. Its not surprising the younger generations don't like "old school" games, because the participation trophy winners don't know how to cope with losing or defeat or even worse...having to actually spend time learning and getting better BEFORE achieving any success.

Old school MMORPG's were actual worlds to be immersed in. Not glorified lobby style games. Old school games actually required to be be *gasp* social and know how to interact with people for the benefit of you all (group, guild, raid etc) since you couldn't do a lot of stuff solo. You don't like that there were plenty of other games that were designed to play solo like ARPG's, 1st Person Shooters, Solo RPG's and many others. MMORPG's were designed to fill the social aspect of gaming specifically where the game was a world, and everyone was intertwined and had to some degree work together to "conquer". But as soon as bean counters took over for actual gamers when it came to the development of MMORPG's the quality went down the shitter. They made the games easy enough for 3 year olds to play, or at least they make them for the current generation with the attention span of said 3 year olds. Everything became instant gratification, or if it wasn't, just open you wallet and you can instantly get what you want.

Let me be clear, that doesn't mean every aspect of newer MMORPG's are bad. Things like action combat, a mail system, shared banking space for accounts, an auction house, mounts etc are ways in which the MMORPG genre did improve some over the older games such as UO EQ DAOC. So it's not all new is bad, but challenge, requirement to work with others to do things, and lack of failure/consequences for playing bad no longer really exist and it robbed the genre of what made people want to interact and work together. Which was the whole point of MMORPG's.

Sovrath

For me, while I prefer "action combat" I prefer the worlds and the game play of the older games. I had so much fun exploring in lineage 2, I enjoyed the downtime, moreso with other players. It was not only a chance to chat and to catch up on world happenings but for a pvp oriented game, a lot of pvp could happen.

I liked that it wasn't run to quest hub, collect quests (I always read them but not all of them were worth reading) and then kill collect 3 things and run back.

The world of Lineage 2 felt like a living world with all the factions and players. It was mostly about player interaction.

In Vanguard it was about the exploration and in many cases the difficulty and/or danger.

mcrippins

I think a lot of it has to do with community. I'm not sure it's possible to have a very successful MMO and still maintain a community where people genuinely know each other, and build relationships from it. Where a player can be known by all for their skill. It does happen under certain circumstances in todays MMOs, but it's incredibly rare.

Slapshot1188

Raagnarz said:

SImply put because people with actual intelligence played those games. There wasn't hand holding. They were deep and developed by people who loved games and not by accountants. Most importantly they were actual games not real life wallet simulators. Its not surprising the younger generations don't like "old school" games, because the participation trophy winners don't know how to cope with losing or defeat or even worse...having to actually spend time learning and getting better BEFORE achieving any success.

While I think your wording is a bit harsh, there is an important kernel of truth there.

The OG players were mostly nerds and geeks.  Many had played Dungeons and Dragons (the real game).  And yes, these games were largely made by the fans for themselves.

but Wow was both the pinnacle and the death of the genre as we knew it.  Suddenly MMORPGs were not just for the geeks and nerds.   We had Mr Fucking T in commercials talking about his Nightelf Mohawk.  Interest levels exploded as the genre went mainstream.  WoW was a far simplified game from its predecessors but still retained much of the magic.  That simplification made it accessible to the wider population who soon not only joined in, but took over.

Games started trying to be the "Next WoW" and one after the other tried simplifying further.  Then the next step was the "action combat" revolution.  This further expanded the playerbase as it opened up options for the console gamers and the FPS folk who loved the Battllefield Series or Call of Duty.

Then they grew even further by going "Free to play" which removed the initial barrier to entry (even if it was the greatest misnomer of all time).  This also impacted the "commitment level" of the players who no longer had any investment in the games they played.  Folks literally started playing 5 MMORPGs (or at least MMOs) at the same time.  Something unheard of in the past.  This also further strained the social bonds of the preceding games.  You might play with 5 different groups of people in your 5 games.  This also started the push towards "I need to be able to solo the MMO".

Nowadays the push is to mobile.  The mobile market is another leap in playerbase but it once again takes the genre away from it's roots.  Games need to be simplified even further.  Everything needs to be readable on a phone.  Controls need to correlate to a phone...

With each step, the market grows, but the games get further away from their roots.  Less and less of an actual traditional RPG, in a massively multiplayer world.

I do not blame the companies for trying to chase the bigger slices of the pie.  I do not blame the expanded playerbase for liking what they like.  I just wish that there was still some group of nerds and geeks that had the skills and the funding to make a game like those old ones, but with today's technology and QOL enhancements (Lets face it, camping a spawn for 8 hours a day for months to get one particular drop is not the basis of a sustainable game today).

This is why I chase the Crowdfunding dreams.  These are games that on paper, do not need massive $100M development budgets.  Games that can and should be able to survive with just the OG gamers.  But so far, all of them have been failures by either straying too far from their roots, or simply not having the skill to deliver on their promises. 

Maybe it's Pantheon... unlikely... and they will probably face the same fate as the others, but... there is always a chance, and so the candle flickers, but has not yet gone out.

corrosivechains

Because they were originally designed as worlds for players to live another life in, instead of the E-Sport Store Fronts they've turned into. They were pure RPGs...now they're MMOs.

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The user and all related content has been deleted.

GatsuZerk

Slapshot1188 said:

Because most of today's MMORPGs are not MMORPGs.



The RPG elements are stripped away and instead of your character's skill mattering, it's how fast you can click or jump like Mario. Instead of becoming a character who grows and progresses, today we play ourselves in a costume, changing skills with a click of the button. First I'm a mage, but now I hit a button and I am a Warrior! Then later I will click another button and be a Healer...



Then the Massively Multiplayer elements are equally nerfed. Who needs 5000 players on a server when you can solo through all content?



I stand by my belief that a game like DAoC remade with the same game elements, but with some QOL improvements and today's graphics, UI and net coding would be a huge hit.



Sure- Action games, just like consoles.. and now mobile, are popular with a wide section of the public. But that is not what the genre was founded on. I am fine with fans of those having plenty of games to play. I just wish we had a few actual modern MMORPGs. We deserve better than having to choose between games that launched like Shroud of the Avatar and Ember's Adrift.

Lineage 2 and DAoC remade with modern graphics would be so good. Imagine those games in UE5, it would be a smash hit.

GatsuZerk

To me it was the class structure of the older games. Much more to choose from, multiple roles to fill. These games had like 20+ classes. Debuffers, buffers, crowd control, damage, healers, tanks. Games like DAoC and Lineage 2 had party sizes of 8 and 9 players, everyone had a role to fill, a job to do. The games of the past like these promoted team work simply by min maxing class combinations in the parties, that's still a thing in todays games but it's all so watered down.

Neoyoshi

I think people get hung up on the past too much and they don't spend enough time trying to find enjoyment in what's available now.

giantessfan

DarkZorvanReturns said:

"Why Do You Think Old-School MMO Design Is So Alluring To Fans Of The Genre Even Today?"


Please link to these thriving old school mmos to support your hypothesis of them being so alluring.

I mean alluring does not mean popular though. Alluring is, something that calls to people or something people find interesting .

For instance, "My wife while she is pregnant finds Ginger Ale alluring when normally she wouldn't touch the stuff."

KnightFalz

DarkZorvanReturns said:

"Why Do You Think Old-School MMO Design Is So Alluring To Fans Of The Genre Even Today?"





Please link to these thriving old school mmos to support your hypothesis of them being so alluring.

UO and EQ may as well be living dinosaurs, but are still commercially viable. Just about anything that comes out with an old-school vibe gathers some attention at least for awhile with hope expressed it may be the one to finally herald an old-school renaissance.

They definitely have allure to some.