Why Do You Think Old-School MMO Design Is So Alluring To Fans Of The Genre Even Today? | MMORPG.com

Mendel

Slapshot1188 said:

The_Korrigan said:

True that, from AC1 you have positional attacks to.
Backstabs, headshots.

Actually, NW combat is one of the closest to AC1, since like AC1, you can also dodge ranged attacks, and ranged attacks have to anticipate movement. Unlike EQ/WoW clones, dodging isn't just a stat on a character sheet with a chance of success.

Again… back to “player twitch skill” vs playing a character who’s skills determine success.

Neither is necessarily better but I will always prefer to play a character (The Roleplay in RPG) and not me in a skin.

Player twitch skills -- boo!  They're for young people, also boo!

VladMorbius

The fact is I'm convinced that today's game makers are trying to cater to all ages groups and play styles which isn't easy to do and is a primary reason for new games being relatively easy. Most players today would never be able nor likely willing to get a player to max level in a game like AC.

Scot

VladMorbius said:

The fact is I'm convinced that today's game makers are trying to cater to all ages groups and play styles which isn't easy to do and is a primary reason for new games being relatively easy. Most players today would never be able nor likely willing to get a player to max level in a game like AC.

Can you just imagine their little faces when they hear about a corpse run!

DigDuggy

IT all depends on what the demographics are.  I don't know that, but I imagine it's largely a skewed older group that has the resources to support older games that they have enjoyed for decades.  I'm sure there is also a younger base, and I imagine that some get pulled in by their parents.  Others probably, just like the retro look and feel of the older games. 

Wordsworth

Pretty sure it’s because young gamers never experienced the peak of the genre and old people never stop talking about how things were better ‘back in my day’.  

The_Korrigan

Slapshot1188 said:

The_Korrigan said:

True that, from AC1 you have positional attacks to.
Backstabs, headshots.

Actually, NW combat is one of the closest to AC1, since like AC1, you can also dodge ranged attacks, and ranged attacks have to anticipate movement. Unlike EQ/WoW clones, dodging isn't just a stat on a character sheet with a chance of success.

Again… back to “player twitch skill” vs playing a character who’s skills determine success.

Neither is necessarily better but I will always prefer to play a character (The Roleplay in RPG) and not me in a skin.

I was talking about AC1 and NW, not that they are better or worse than the EQ model.

The-Educator

Depends on what you mean by 'Old School.' For me, Vanilla WoW isn't 'Old School.' True 'Old School' MMORPGs, like Everquest and UO, have a much smaller player base than modern games. What's successful now are games that combine the depth of old games with modern quality-of-life features and less micromanagement. People who say 'Old School' was better often don't actually play those old games anymore."

Amaranthar

The-Educator said:

Depends on what you mean by 'Old School.' For me, Vanilla WoW isn't 'Old School.' True 'Old School' MMORPGs, like Everquest and UO, have a much smaller player base than modern games. What's successful now are games that combine the depth of old games with modern quality-of-life features and less micromanagement. People who say 'Old School' was better often don't actually play those old games anymore."

"Modern quality-of-life features and less micromanagement" ARE the depth of those old games. 
Old School was better, but came with problems that are much easier to fix by replacing with the above. 

Those old games aren't what they used to be (changes over the years), and that's why players don't play them nearly as much anymore. 

Sovrath

The-Educator said:

Depends on what you mean by 'Old School.' For me, Vanilla WoW isn't 'Old School.' True 'Old School' MMORPGs, like Everquest and UO, have a much smaller player base than modern games. What's successful now are games that combine the depth of old games with modern quality-of-life features and less micromanagement. People who say 'Old School' was better often don't actually play those old games anymore."

There are many reasons why a person 
might not play the those old games. 

I don’t play Lineage 2 because I didn’t like the idea inventory management or lack of an auction house.

These old games change and not necessarily for the better.

Amaranthar

Sovrath said:

The-Educator said:

Depends on what you mean by 'Old School.' For me, Vanilla WoW isn't 'Old School.' True 'Old School' MMORPGs, like Everquest and UO, have a much smaller player base than modern games. What's successful now are games that combine the depth of old games with modern quality-of-life features and less micromanagement. People who say 'Old School' was better often don't actually play those old games anymore."

There are many reasons why a person 
might not play the those old games. 

I don’t play Lineage 2 because I didn’t like the idea inventory management or lack of an auction house.

These old games change and not necessarily for the better.

We may be opposites here.

I always liked inventory management because I could always set things up better myself than rely on lists. 
I liked UO's backpack system, with bags and small pouches inside of the backpack. If I wanted to check on something, I knew where it was and would such do a visual search. Much easier then scrolling through lists. 

Brainy

Amaranthar said:

Sovrath said:

The-Educator said:

Depends on what you mean by 'Old School.' For me, Vanilla WoW isn't 'Old School.' True 'Old School' MMORPGs, like Everquest and UO, have a much smaller player base than modern games. What's successful now are games that combine the depth of old games with modern quality-of-life features and less micromanagement. People who say 'Old School' was better often don't actually play those old games anymore."

There are many reasons why a person 
might not play the those old games. 

I don’t play Lineage 2 because I didn’t like the idea inventory management or lack of an auction house.

These old games change and not necessarily for the better.

We may be opposites here.

I always liked inventory management because I could always set things up better myself than rely on lists. 
I liked UO's backpack system, with bags and small pouches inside of the backpack. If I wanted to check on something, I knew where it was and would such do a visual search. Much easier then scrolling through lists. 

Yeah but UO didnt really have that much of an inventory management problem at all.  At the beginning it had nearly infinitite storage in chests, and each packs could hold 125 items with many stacking to huge values.

The inventory management problem people are talking about.  Is when you have 15 spaces and stack size is limited, but need 1000's items and/or high quanitities in the game, so you are having to constantly juggle/throw away your inventory.

Sovrath

Amaranthar said:

Sovrath said:

The-Educator said:

Depends on what you mean by 'Old School.' For me, Vanilla WoW isn't 'Old School.' True 'Old School' MMORPGs, like Everquest and UO, have a much smaller player base than modern games. What's successful now are games that combine the depth of old games with modern quality-of-life features and less micromanagement. People who say 'Old School' was better often don't actually play those old games anymore."

There are many reasons why a person 
might not play the those old games. 

I don’t play Lineage 2 because I didn’t like the idea inventory management or lack of an auction house.

These old games change and not necessarily for the better.

We may be opposites here.

I always liked inventory management because I could always set things up better myself than rely on lists. 
I liked UO's backpack system, with bags and small pouches inside of the backpack. If I wanted to check on something, I knew where it was and would such do a visual search. Much easier then scrolling through lists. 

What I was saying was that I don't play Lineage 2 because I felt inventory manage was a game breaker.

I will say that I don't really like inventory management but I had no issues in Lineage 2. I prefer "backpacks" or visual icons over lists as well.

olepi

When I think of "old school" I think of DAOC at the beginning. No quests. Very hard to solo effectively. Lots of down time to heal up after a fight. Specialized characters that were good at one or two things, and bad at the rest. Little or no fast travel. All things in the game come with a sub, no cash shop. No storyline to follow.

Almost all of my time was grinding XP in a group. I could solo with my Mini and Cabby, but it was slow. 

I think most people today want a faster paced game, with characters that can do almost everything and can solo effectively. They also want stories and quests. And fast travel.

Amaranthar

olepi said:

When I think of "old school" I think of DAOC at the beginning. No quests. Very hard to solo effectively. Lots of down time to heal up after a fight. Specialized characters that were good at one or two things, and bad at the rest. Little or no fast travel. All things in the game come with a sub, no cash shop. No storyline to follow.

Almost all of my time was grinding XP in a group. I could solo with my Mini and Cabby, but it was slow. 

I think most people today want a faster paced game, with characters that can do almost everything and can solo effectively. They also want stories and quests. And fast travel.

Most players want a game to beat, and that's it. 
The trick is to convince them that the world they enter is just a game.