No clue about mutations really as I am miles from doing that content, if ever, but I've read it's not uncommon for players to bring several sets of gear and respec their skills on the fly multiple times during a run.
This currently is a pita since it cost 200 gold per respec and applying new skills or gear is a totally manual process but devs are reportedly working on ways to make switching easier.
This is where we differ. We both see this as a problem but your perspective is that it costs too much (200 gold)and you have to manually reselect your skills.
My perspective is that the whole concept of respecing with a click, in the middle of a dungeon, is silly.
Not saying you are wrong, and I am right. Just a matter of preference. But this is absolutely a "New School" MMORPG concept where IMHO you no longer play a character, you play yourself in various skins and using various tools.
There is no question that THIS is more popular, but it's something that many of us who do miss the old school MMORPGs find distasteful.
To me this is one of the biggest differences between old and new school and real character development is one of the things I miss most.
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I have to say this confirms a picture of NW's end game that is concerning for me, it seems to have borrowed too much from the Asian concept of end game and tried to fit that in with a Western one. It does not sound as bad a BDO, but that's hardly an accolade. The decision to concentrate on the dungeons though does show they are attempting to keep end game in a framework we know and love.
It sounds like some may think having separate grind for PvP gear is too much, but PvE and PvP has to be kept separate that is a fundamental of good design in my eyes. I think most of the issues are about how the grind is done, maybe less mutations and more dungeons for example?
For me based on all the additions done last year I still think by the end of this year it may be for me, they are still developing and adding strong content you can't argue with that.
Not sure what you mean by Asian concept of end game, most recently I played Lost Ark and it was all about running dungeons from beginning to end, with a smattering of "open world" content and story
New World has a very well developed open world with beautiful landscapes and historical vistas everywhere, nothing like LA for sure.
NW also has expeditions, initial dungeons of increasing difficulty which introduce steadily more difficult boss fights starting with typical tank and spank at first, but by Brimstone Sands it's a proper 5 man raid where the group better have good gear and be ready to Dance with the Stars.
Most zones have open world content ranging from easy to quite difficult in the elite areas where knowing what the NPCs are susceptible to so you can apply the proper weapon coatings or employ defensive resistance tinctures is necessary to pull off on level, sometimes even when you are above level.
No clue about mutations really as I am miles from doing that content, if ever, but I've read it's not uncommon for players to bring several sets of gear and respec their skills on the fly multiple times during a run.
This currently is a pita since it cost 200 gold per respec and applying new skills or gear is a totally manual process but devs are reportedly working on ways to make switching easier.
Like many "proper" MMORPGs, player companies who have the mutations well mastered sell carries for in game gold so players can get the large number of umbral shards (used to level up specific gear pieces from 600 to 625) which drop for everyone on a successful, no death clear.
If I were a betting man I'd say many players rush through the quest content spending little to no time on other activities hence find the game more shallow than it really is.
YMMV.
NW endgame PVE isn't that much different than Lost Ark. It ends up being a mutated dungeon grind for gear that has the stats/bonuses you want and you have to grind the items to raise the gear level. As mentioned above, you also need different gear sets for pvp, corruption resistance, etc. Also like Lost Ark, your quest lines hit a roadblock until you do the base level end game expeditions. I personally despise the mutated/mythic key setup so that ended the PVE journey for me, other than world tours to raise alternate weapon watermarks.
Not sure what you mean by Asian concept of end game, most recently I played Lost Ark and it was all about running dungeons from beginning to end, with a smattering of "open world" content and story
New World has a very well developed open world with beautiful landscapes and historical vistas everywhere, nothing like LA for sure.
NW also has expeditions, initial dungeons of increasing difficulty which introduce steadily more difficult boss fights starting with typical tank and spank at first, but by Brimstone Sands it's a proper 5 man raid where the group better have good gear and be ready to Dance with the Stars.
Most zones have open world content ranging from easy to quite difficult in the elite areas where knowing what the NPCs are susceptible to so you can apply the proper weapon coatings or employ defensive resistance tinctures is necessary to pull off on level, sometimes even when you are above level.
No clue about mutations really as I am miles from doing that content, if ever, but I've read it's not uncommon for players to bring several sets of gear and respec their skills on the fly multiple times during a run.
This currently is a pita since it cost 200 gold per respec and applying new skills or gear is a totally manual process but devs are reportedly working on ways to make switching easier.
Like many "proper" MMORPGs, player companies who have the mutations well mastered sell carries for in game gold so players can get the large number of umbral shards (used to level up specific gear pieces from 600 to 625) which drop for everyone on a successful, no death clear.
If I were a betting man I'd say many players rush through the quest content spending little to no time on other activities hence find the game more shallow than it really is.
YMMV.
I already realised NW would be more for me than LA, had some interest in that back in the day, but soon realised it was not an open world etc. I think my tipping point will be curated leveling to top (ish) level and another Brimstone Sands, not being too greedy or anything.
I don't mind the changing characters on the fly stuff, the weapons seems fine by me, that's just like a character changing weapons or spells in an RPG, armours is like warding spells and so on. More than that though goes too far, Rifts went too far in that regard as did PS2 really, they both had good reasons for doing that but it shouted "game!" too much at me.
I don't mind the changing characters on the fly stuff, the weapons seems fine by me, that's just like a character changing weapons or spells in an RPG, armours is like warding spells and so on. More than that though goes too far, Rifts went too far in that regard as did PS2 really, they both had good reasons for doing that but it shouted "game!" too much at me.
It's really closer to RIFT than you think. The respec is also going to have you change your stats on the fly. So you do not just change your sword and shield for a firestaff, you literally become super weak by lowering your strength and super smart by raising your int.
You will quite literally change from a burly plate wielding tank to a fragile spell casting mage. Mid dungeon.
PS: This also cuts down on the need to interact with other players. You do not need other roles when you can play them all with a click. Most interactions are limited to: 1. Joining a World Tour zerg of 50 characters that steamroll a zone to open chests for gear 2. Joining an Expedition which forces you to have at least 3 players 3. Joining a WAR or Outpost Rush
If you really want players to interact with each other then there needs to be interdependencies. I need you. You need me. We both need that guy over there...
Again- Not a right/wrong answer. But this is definitely something that differentiates old/new school games and is one of the answers to the question posed in the title of this thread.
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I personally despise the mutated/mythic key setup so that ended the PVE journey for me, other than world tours to raise alternate weapon watermarks.
If you're talking about tuning orbs for entry, that hasn't been a thing for several months. No "keys" are required for entry. They now just have a maximum daily limit of 25 expeditions.
The only thing that still uses tuning orbs is the 5-man "trials" which are just 15-minute timed PvE arenas.
I'm also not a fan of mutated dungeons even without the orb requirement but for a different reason: the umbral shard rewards of the high-end mutations (8-10) are way more than from any other source. You can get up to 6000 from a perfect M10 run and nothing else in the game gives any amount remotely comparable.
Outpost Rush by comparison gives 100 for a win and 50 for a loss.
The best non-expedition source is creating a daily gypsum cast for an item slot that is already 625. Those give you 400.
It's just too heavily skewed toward mythic+ dungeon running.
You need 9440 of those shards to get one piece of gear from 600 to 625 gear score.
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I don't mind the changing characters on the fly stuff, the weapons seems fine by me, that's just like a character changing weapons or spells in an RPG, armours is like warding spells and so on. More than that though goes too far, Rifts went too far in that regard as did PS2 really, they both had good reasons for doing that but it shouted "game!" too much at me.
It's really closer to RIFT than you think. The respec is also going to have you change your stats on the fly. So you do not just change your sword and shield for a firestaff, you literally become super weak by lowering your strength and super smart by raising your int.
You will quite literally change from a burly plate wielding tank to a fragile spell casting mage. Mid dungeon.
PS: This also cuts down on the need to interact with other players. You do not need other roles when you can play them all with a click. Most interactions are limited to: 1. Joining a World Tour zerg of 50 characters that steamroll a zone to open chests for gear 2. Joining an Expedition which forces you to have at least 3 players 3. Joining a WAR or Outpost Rush
If you really want players to interact with each other then there needs to be interdependencies. I need you. You need me. We both need that guy over there...
Again- Not a right/wrong answer. But this is definitely something that differentiates old/new school games and is one of the answers to the question posed in the title of this thread.
Being able to switch roles doesn't mean everyone does it or can do it well.
Within my circle we have some folks switching between DPS and Tanking, Healing and DPS and me, strictly DPS, but using a non meta build.
No one has the gear or talent to do multiple roles well yet in our case, but we are working on it.
New World's expeditions clearly require someone to heal, someone to tank just like any other trinity based MMO.
Mutations are advanced level which as mentioned before, few players run, much less master.
I have no issue with gear or skill switching (though I don't do it personally) as avatars are just tools to me, like space ships, but it is convenient to not have to go back to base to switch my build.
ESO had similar, I even bought a cash shop vendor to let me and those in my group switch gear and build inside of, but only at the start of a dungeon run.
I guess New World takes this concept further but who knows if I'll ever see it, dungeon running isn't my thing unless with friends and we're still miss a 5 th right now.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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I don't mind the changing characters on the fly stuff, the weapons seems fine by me, that's just like a character changing weapons or spells in an RPG, armours is like warding spells and so on. More than that though goes too far, Rifts went too far in that regard as did PS2 really, they both had good reasons for doing that but it shouted "game!" too much at me.
It's really closer to RIFT than you think. The respec is also going to have you change your stats on the fly. So you do not just change your sword and shield for a firestaff, you literally become super weak by lowering your strength and super smart by raising your int.
You will quite literally change from a burly plate wielding tank to a fragile spell casting mage. Mid dungeon.
PS: This also cuts down on the need to interact with other players. You do not need other roles when you can play them all with a click. Most interactions are limited to: 1. Joining a World Tour zerg of 50 characters that steamroll a zone to open chests for gear 2. Joining an Expedition which forces you to have at least 3 players 3. Joining a WAR or Outpost Rush
If you really want players to interact with each other then there needs to be interdependencies. I need you. You need me. We both need that guy over there...
Again- Not a right/wrong answer. But this is definitely something that differentiates old/new school games and is one of the answers to the question posed in the title of this thread.
Being able to switch roles doesn't mean everyone does it or can do it well.
Within my circle we have some folks switching between DPS and Tanking, Healing and DPS and me, strictly DPS, but using a non meta build.
No one has the gear or talent to do multiple roles well yet in our case, but we are working on it.
New World's expeditions clearly require someone to heal, someone to tank just like any other trinity based MMO.
Mutations are advanced level which as mentioned before, few players run, much less master.
I have no issue with gear or skill switching (though I don't do it personally) as avatars are just tools to me, like space ships, but it is convenient to not have to go back to base to switch my build.
ESO had similar, I even bought a cash shop vendor to let me and those in my group switch gear and build inside of, but only at the start of a dungeon run.
I guess New World takes this concept further but who knows if I'll ever see it, dungeon running isn't my thing unless with friends and we're still miss a 5 th right now.
It is stripping the RPG, the avatar, the character away, to me they just can't be space ships. But my guild still had a good time (though limited time) in Rifts and PS2 is still the best game of it's ilk out there. What this seems to indicate to me is that we would get at least a few months but not sure how much more than that it would last us currently, hopefully what they do this year will help with that.
Some posters here seem to imply that in New World, to change role, you simply have to change the stats and weapons.
That's far from true.
First, you have to have that other weapon skill maxed out.
Then, you need specific gear. A healer without a dedicated healer armor set with the right perks on it will suck. Same for a tank... actually, worse for a tank, he will imperatively need different sets with specific wards. And don't forget the jewelry which gives unique perks not found on any other gear element.
And all that gear needs to be at the right GS to be efficient.
And then you have the gems, which have also become more complex after Brimstone.
Additionally, you have the consumables, not only buff food and health/mana pots, but also honing stones, infusions to increase damage towards specific enemies, other pots to protect from specific damage...
The trophies in your 3 houses are also important.
You don't switch from dungeon DPS to dungeon TANK just by equipping a sword and a shield, you don't become a healer by equipping a life staff.
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Some posters here seem to imply that in New World, to change role, you simply have to change the stats and weapons.
That's far from true.
First, you have to have that other weapon skill maxed out.
Then, you need specific gear. A healer without a dedicated healer armor set with the right perks on it will suck. Same for a tank... actually, worse for a tank, he will imperatively need different sets with specific wards. And don't forget the jewelry which gives unique perks not found on any other gear element.
And all that gear needs to be at the right GS to be efficient.
And then you have the gems, which have also become more complex after Brimstone.
Additionally, you have the consumables, not only buff food and health/mana pots, but also honing stones, infusions to increase damage towards specific enemies, other pots to protect from specific damage...
The trophies in your 3 houses are also important.
You don't switch from dungeon DPS to dungeon TANK just by equipping a sword and a shield, you don't become a healer by equipping a life staff.
You try to make it FAR more difficult that it is in reality.
You can level a weapon to max in a single day. Just a few hours actually. You can buy gear in the auction house. Same with Gems. Or have a crafter in your guild... Consumables.. yeah.. make or AH.
Trophies.. LOL. OK.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I personally despise the mutated/mythic key setup so that ended the PVE journey for me, other than world tours to raise alternate weapon watermarks.
If you're talking about tuning orbs for entry, that hasn't been a thing for several months. No "keys" are required for entry. They now just have a maximum daily limit of 25 expeditions.
The only thing that still uses tuning orbs is the 5-man "trials" which are just 15-minute timed PvE arenas.
I'm also not a fan of mutated dungeons even without the orb requirement but for a different reason: the umbral shard rewards of the high-end mutations (8-10) are way more than from any other source. You can get up to 6000 from a perfect M10 run and nothing else in the game gives any amount remotely comparable.
Outpost Rush by comparison gives 100 for a win and 50 for a loss.
The best non-expedition source is creating a daily gypsum cast for an item slot that is already 625. Those give you 400.
It's just too heavily skewed toward mythic+ dungeon running.
You need 9440 of those shards to get one piece of gear from 600 to 625 gear score.
Nah, wasn't referring to needing to craft orbs like the old days. I take issue with the lazy design of mutated expeditions and mythic key runs. You've already ran the expedition/dungeon multiple times but now, you get to run it even more times but with stronger disease, mini tornados around the boss, etc. It's the same dungeon recycled over and over again with difficulty tweaks and annoyances that is passed off as new content.
Some posters here seem to imply that in New World, to change role, you simply have to change the stats and weapons.
That's far from true.
First, you have to have that other weapon skill maxed out.
Then, you need specific gear. A healer without a dedicated healer armor set with the right perks on it will suck. Same for a tank... actually, worse for a tank, he will imperatively need different sets with specific wards. And don't forget the jewelry which gives unique perks not found on any other gear element.
And all that gear needs to be at the right GS to be efficient.
And then you have the gems, which have also become more complex after Brimstone.
Additionally, you have the consumables, not only buff food and health/mana pots, but also honing stones, infusions to increase damage towards specific enemies, other pots to protect from specific damage...
The trophies in your 3 houses are also important.
You don't switch from dungeon DPS to dungeon TANK just by equipping a sword and a shield, you don't become a healer by equipping a life staff.
You try to make it FAR more difficult that it is in reality.
You can level a weapon to max in a single day. Just a few hours actually. How exactly? Taking me weeks for each one through normal play. You can buy gear in the auction house. Costs gold, not so easy to earn unless your company own a town. Same with Gems. Or have a crafter in your guild... Takes a while for someone to get high level gem crafting, unless of course someone is no lifeing it Consumables.. yeah.. make or AH. Again, costs gold or takes time.
Trophies.. LOL. OK. I can't afford any high level ones yet, only have one house as well, but someday.
I've not found the game to be anywhere near as quick and easy as you try to make it out to be but perhaps you are a member of one of those well organized try- hard companies?
Me, have yet to watch a video of the game play, definitely fall into the category of a more "casual" gamer.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Some posters here seem to imply that in New World, to change role, you simply have to change the stats and weapons.
That's far from true.
First, you have to have that other weapon skill maxed out.
Then, you need specific gear. A healer without a dedicated healer armor set with the right perks on it will suck. Same for a tank... actually, worse for a tank, he will imperatively need different sets with specific wards. And don't forget the jewelry which gives unique perks not found on any other gear element.
And all that gear needs to be at the right GS to be efficient.
And then you have the gems, which have also become more complex after Brimstone.
Additionally, you have the consumables, not only buff food and health/mana pots, but also honing stones, infusions to increase damage towards specific enemies, other pots to protect from specific damage...
The trophies in your 3 houses are also important.
You don't switch from dungeon DPS to dungeon TANK just by equipping a sword and a shield, you don't become a healer by equipping a life staff.
You try to make it FAR more difficult that it is in reality.
You can level a weapon to max in a single day. Just a few hours actually. How exactly? Taking me weeks for each one through normal play. You can buy gear in the auction house. Costs gold, not so easy to earn unless your company own a town. Same with Gems. Or have a crafter in your guild... Takes a while for someone to get high level gem crafting, unless of course someone is no lifeing it Consumables.. yeah.. make or AH. Again, costs gold or takes time.
Trophies.. LOL. OK. I can't afford any high level ones yet, only have one house as well, but someday.
I've not found the game to be anywhere near as quick and easy as you try to make it out to be but perhaps you are a member of one of those well organized try- hard companies?
Me, have yet to watch a video of the game play, definitely fall into the category of a more "casual" gamer.
Weapon skilling is simply finding the right spot to "grind". Easiest to focus on 1 weapon until 60 and then kill high level mobs in big groups to get 1000 weapon XP per pull. They nerfed some of the craziest spots but there are still many that exist out there. You can slowly walk through a camp and pull 1 pirate/zombie/whatever at a time.. or you can have someone run through the whole camp and bring 30 of them to 1 spot so you can AOE them all. I had one spot on an island that was PERFECT to solo weapon skill. Start on one end and do a circle and by the time I got to the end they would repop. Yes, its mindless grinding but spend a day or two there and you max multiple weapons. I felt like John Wick.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Some posters here seem to imply that in New World, to change role, you simply have to change the stats and weapons.
That's far from true.
First, you have to have that other weapon skill maxed out.
Then, you need specific gear. A healer without a dedicated healer armor set with the right perks on it will suck. Same for a tank... actually, worse for a tank, he will imperatively need different sets with specific wards. And don't forget the jewelry which gives unique perks not found on any other gear element.
And all that gear needs to be at the right GS to be efficient.
And then you have the gems, which have also become more complex after Brimstone.
Additionally, you have the consumables, not only buff food and health/mana pots, but also honing stones, infusions to increase damage towards specific enemies, other pots to protect from specific damage...
The trophies in your 3 houses are also important.
You don't switch from dungeon DPS to dungeon TANK just by equipping a sword and a shield, you don't become a healer by equipping a life staff.
You try to make it FAR more difficult that it is in reality.
You can level a weapon to max in a single day. Just a few hours actually. How exactly? Taking me weeks for each one through normal play. You can buy gear in the auction house. Costs gold, not so easy to earn unless your company own a town. Same with Gems. Or have a crafter in your guild... Takes a while for someone to get high level gem crafting, unless of course someone is no lifeing it Consumables.. yeah.. make or AH. Again, costs gold or takes time.
Trophies.. LOL. OK. I can't afford any high level ones yet, only have one house as well, but someday.
I've not found the game to be anywhere near as quick and easy as you try to make it out to be but perhaps you are a member of one of those well organized try- hard companies?
Me, have yet to watch a video of the game play, definitely fall into the category of a more "casual" gamer.
Weapon skilling is simply finding the right spot to "grind". Easiest to focus on 1 weapon until 60 and then kill high level mobs in big groups to get 1000 weapon XP per pull. They nerfed some of the craziest spots but there are still many that exist out there. You can slowly walk through a camp and pull 1 pirate/zombie/whatever at a time.. or you can have someone run through the whole camp and bring 30 of them to 1 spot so you can AOE them all. I had one spot on an island that was PERFECT to solo weapon skill. Start on one end and do a circle and by the time I got to the end they would repop. Yes, its mindless grinding but spend a day or two there and you max multiple weapons. I felt like John Wick.
Thanks, I'll see if I can find such a spot tonight and top out a couple of 2ndary weapons which have been dragging behind.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Weapon skilling is simply finding the right spot to "grind". Easiest to focus on 1 weapon until 60 and then kill high level mobs in big groups to get 1000 weapon XP per pull. They nerfed some of the craziest spots but there are still many that exist out there. You can slowly walk through a camp and pull 1 pirate/zombie/whatever at a time.. or you can have someone run through the whole camp and bring 30 of them to 1 spot so you can AOE them all. I had one spot on an island that was PERFECT to solo weapon skill. Start on one end and do a circle and by the time I got to the end they would repop. Yes, its mindless grinding but spend a day or two there and you max multiple weapons. I felt like John Wick.
But did you look like Keanu Reeves, that would be better to be honest.
finding the right spot to "grind". Easiest to focus on 1 weapon until 60 and then kill high level mobs in big groups to get 1000 weapon XP per pull. They nerfed some of the craziest spots but there are still many that exist out there. You can slowly walk through a camp and pull 1 pirate/zombie/whatever at a time.. or you can have someone run through the whole camp and bring 30 of them to 1 spot so you can AOE them all. I had one spot on an island that was PERFECT to solo weapon skill. Start on one end and do a circle and by the time I got to the end they would repop. Yes, its mindless grinding but spend a day or two there and you max multiple weapons. I felt like John Wick.
But did you look like Keanu Reeves, that would be better to be honest.
He probably did, most medium and many light armor "chest" pieces look like long leather overcoats but unfortunately are usually brown but not black.
I know my dodge rolls in light armor look a lot like this.
Speaking of armor, the level you wear greatly impacts how well you can dodge roll, ranging from being able to do so in any direction in light to a simple backstep in heavy.
It also affects damage and healing output quite significantly, heavy armor being the worst as it's wearers do like 20% less damage and has an even greater impact on healing reduction. To
I'm told the healing reduction was a recent nerf in order to reduce the number of "paladin" builds as healers in heavy armor were able to tank/heal far too much damage compared to others.
Paladins are still viable, but definitely have to be more careful, especially against elites.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Complexity in my opinion is missing in most new MMO's. Looking back to AC there was a ton to learn, even just fighting the creatures. Each creature had a different weakness and needed to be attacked using different skills. As an example you had creatures that were weaker to fire attack, cold attack, pierce or bludgeon attack, etc. Then is was learning whether to hit them high, middle or low, learn if they are spell casters, melee and what range they had, along with de-buffs they may apply. So you were required to carry a slew of different style weapons or as a mage manage your spell bar based on what you were attacking. Depth and complexity is what's missing from new MMO's.
Complexity in my opinion is missing in most new MMO's. Looking back to AC there was a ton to learn, even just fighting the creatures. Each creature had a different weakness and needed to be attacked using different skills. As an example you had creatures that were weaker to fire attack, cold attack, pierce or bludgeon attack, etc. Then is was learning whether to hit them high, middle or low, learn if they are spell casters, melee and what range they had, along with de-buffs they may apply. So you were required to carry a slew of different style weapons or as a mage manage your spell bar based on what you were attacking. Depth and complexity is what's missing from new MMO's.
I agree that more tactics were needed in older MMO's.
How can you have any of these mechanics when people are now running around with only 2-5 attack moves. Today every attack move is a "does everything" move. Even if a game does have a small resist to a particular type of attack like say "blunt", the mobs are so easy now you can just power through it even if you are using the blunt weapon.
I remember in DAOC you actually had attack chains, where after a successful block/parry/dodge (or other move) you could do a special followup power move for even better effects. Also the followup moves were powerful, they could easily distinguish newbs from elite players.
This all stems from the industry dumbing the games down for consoles, now they are doing it even more for mobile.
Complexity in my opinion is missing in most new MMO's. Looking back to AC there was a ton to learn, even just fighting the creatures. Each creature had a different weakness and needed to be attacked using different skills. As an example you had creatures that were weaker to fire attack, cold attack, pierce or bludgeon attack, etc. Then is was learning whether to hit them high, middle or low, learn if they are spell casters, melee and what range they had, along with de-buffs they may apply. So you were required to carry a slew of different style weapons or as a mage manage your spell bar based on what you were attacking. Depth and complexity is what's missing from new MMO's.
The different damage types and mobs being more or less weak to them is a concept that also exists in New World. And also the fact that you don't really have a class but the stats and weapons you're using define your character.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Weapon skilling is simply finding the right spot to "grind". Easiest to focus on 1 weapon until 60 and then kill high level mobs in big groups to get 1000 weapon XP per pull. They nerfed some of the craziest spots but there are still many that exist out there. You can slowly walk through a camp and pull 1 pirate/zombie/whatever at a time.. or you can have someone run through the whole camp and bring 30 of them to 1 spot so you can AOE them all. I had one spot on an island that was PERFECT to solo weapon skill. Start on one end and do a circle and by the time I got to the end they would repop. Yes, its mindless grinding but spend a day or two there and you max multiple weapons. I felt like John Wick.
But did you look like Keanu Reeves, that would be better to be honest.
Actually my character wore the white Children of Light robes from the Wheel of Time. I guess closer to a Jedi
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Complexity in my opinion is missing in most new MMO's. Looking back to AC there was a ton to learn, even just fighting the creatures. Each creature had a different weakness and needed to be attacked using different skills. As an example you had creatures that were weaker to fire attack, cold attack, pierce or bludgeon attack, etc. Then is was learning whether to hit them high, middle or low, learn if they are spell casters, melee and what range they had, along with de-buffs they may apply. So you were required to carry a slew of different style weapons or as a mage manage your spell bar based on what you were attacking. Depth and complexity is what's missing from new MMO's.
The different damage types and mobs being more or less weak to them is a concept that also exists in New World. And also the fact that you don't really have a class but the stats and weapons you're using define your character.
Also, while not on par with say DAOC (but what really is?) Attacks are positional, and certain affects trigger off successful blocks, dodge rolls or even kills and increase the power of the next attack or spell when triggered.
There's bonuses for attacking when either the player or npc are at full health, stamina or magic as well as attack and defense bonuses for when players / npcs are less than full health, even more so if below 50%.
New World's NPCs are far more mobile when attacking than those in DAOC which tended to bore straight in or attack at range in a very flatfoot manner.
Ranged attackers often shoot then move, sometimes standing off, other times closing for the kill in a series of dodging leaps towards you.
Mele NPCs do similar, often blocking on their way in if carrying a shield and definitely trying to get behind you for a backstab.
NPCs sometimes have abilities and skills not available to players (yet?).
Two hand pistols, dual wielding knives, swirling energy knife / blade pylons than continue to damage even after the npc's death are just part of their repertoire.
Oh yeah, a good tactic against ranged is to shoot them at range, then duck behind cover, waiting for the NPC archer to come into range.
I noticed at level 60 some NPCs employ the same tactic, shooting you and ducking for cover until the player sticks their neck out again.
I've even had patrolling melee NPCs suddenly duck back behind a corner if they happen to stumble into me during their rounds.
While there is no system message saying so I swear some boss NPCS call for help as their followers can come running from other parts of the local area if their master is under attack.
So overall, pretty complex systems really, perhaps in a different way than old school titles, and not as punishing, but at least the NW devs are trying.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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True that, from AC1 you have positional attacks to. Backstabs, headshots.
Actually, NW combat is one of the closest to AC1, since like AC1, you can also dodge ranged attacks, and ranged attacks have to anticipate movement. Unlike EQ/WoW clones, dodging isn't just a stat on a character sheet with a chance of success.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
finding the right spot to "grind". Easiest to focus on 1 weapon until 60 and then kill high level mobs in big groups to get 1000 weapon XP per pull. They nerfed some of the craziest spots but there are still many that exist out there. You can slowly walk through a camp and pull 1 pirate/zombie/whatever at a time.. or you can have someone run through the whole camp and bring 30 of them to 1 spot so you can AOE them all. I had one spot on an island that was PERFECT to solo weapon skill. Start on one end and do a circle and by the time I got to the end they would repop. Yes, its mindless grinding but spend a day or two there and you max multiple weapons. I felt like John Wick.
But did you look like Keanu Reeves, that would be better to be honest.
He probably did, most medium and many light armor "chest" pieces look like long leather overcoats but unfortunately are usually brown but not black.
I know my dodge rolls in light armor look a lot like this.
Speaking of armor, the level you wear greatly impacts how well you can dodge roll, ranging from being able to do so in any direction in light to a simple backstep in heavy.
It also affects damage and healing output quite significantly, heavy armor being the worst as it's wearers do like 20% less damage and has an even greater impact on healing reduction. To
I'm told the healing reduction was a recent nerf in order to reduce the number of "paladin" builds as healers in heavy armor were able to tank/heal far too much damage compared to others.
Paladins are still viable, but definitely have to be more careful, especially against elites.
Yup. So with "Light" you want to go Medium Chest and Light everything else. "Medium" I tink is Heavy Chest, Legs and Boots/Gloves (pick 1). Just keep your weight at the top of the MEDIUM.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
True that, from AC1 you have positional attacks to. Backstabs, headshots.
Actually, NW combat is one of the closest to AC1, since like AC1, you can also dodge ranged attacks, and ranged attacks have to anticipate movement. Unlike EQ/WoW clones, dodging isn't just a stat on a character sheet with a chance of success.
Again… back to “player twitch skill” vs playing a character who’s skills determine success.
Neither is necessarily better but I will always prefer to play a character (The Roleplay in RPG) and not me in a skin.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Comments
My perspective is that the whole concept of respecing with a click, in the middle of a dungeon, is silly.
Not saying you are wrong, and I am right. Just a matter of preference. But this is absolutely a "New School" MMORPG concept where IMHO you no longer play a character, you play yourself in various skins and using various tools.
There is no question that THIS is more popular, but it's something that many of us who do miss the old school MMORPGs find distasteful.
To me this is one of the biggest differences between old and new school and real character development is one of the things I miss most.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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I don't mind the changing characters on the fly stuff, the weapons seems fine by me, that's just like a character changing weapons or spells in an RPG, armours is like warding spells and so on. More than that though goes too far, Rifts went too far in that regard as did PS2 really, they both had good reasons for doing that but it shouted "game!" too much at me.
You will quite literally change from a burly plate wielding tank to a fragile spell casting mage. Mid dungeon.
PS: This also cuts down on the need to interact with other players. You do not need other roles when you can play them all with a click. Most interactions are limited to:
1. Joining a World Tour zerg of 50 characters that steamroll a zone to open chests for gear
2. Joining an Expedition which forces you to have at least 3 players
3. Joining a WAR or Outpost Rush
If you really want players to interact with each other then there needs to be interdependencies. I need you. You need me. We both need that guy over there...
Again- Not a right/wrong answer. But this is definitely something that differentiates old/new school games and is one of the answers to the question posed in the title of this thread.
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The only thing that still uses tuning orbs is the 5-man "trials" which are just 15-minute timed PvE arenas.
I'm also not a fan of mutated dungeons even without the orb requirement but for a different reason: the umbral shard rewards of the high-end mutations (8-10) are way more than from any other source. You can get up to 6000 from a perfect M10 run and nothing else in the game gives any amount remotely comparable.
Outpost Rush by comparison gives 100 for a win and 50 for a loss.
The best non-expedition source is creating a daily gypsum cast for an item slot that is already 625. Those give you 400.
It's just too heavily skewed toward mythic+ dungeon running.
You need 9440 of those shards to get one piece of gear from 600 to 625 gear score.
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Within my circle we have some folks switching between DPS and Tanking, Healing and DPS and me, strictly DPS, but using a non meta build.
No one has the gear or talent to do multiple roles well yet in our case, but we are working on it.
New World's expeditions clearly require someone to heal, someone to tank just like any other trinity based MMO.
Mutations are advanced level which as mentioned before, few players run, much less master.
I have no issue with gear or skill switching (though I don't do it personally) as avatars are just tools to me, like space ships, but it is convenient to not have to go back to base to switch my build.
ESO had similar, I even bought a cash shop vendor to let me and those in my group switch gear and build inside of, but only at the start of a dungeon run.
I guess New World takes this concept further but who knows if I'll ever see it, dungeon running isn't my thing unless with friends and we're still miss a 5 th right now.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The trophies in your 3 houses are also important.
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- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
You can level a weapon to max in a single day. Just a few hours actually.
You can buy gear in the auction house.
Same with Gems. Or have a crafter in your guild...
Consumables.. yeah.. make or AH.
Trophies.. LOL. OK.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Me, have yet to watch a video of the game play, definitely fall into the category of a more "casual" gamer.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I know my dodge rolls in light armor look a lot like this.
Speaking of armor, the level you wear greatly impacts how well you can dodge roll, ranging from being able to do so in any direction in light to a simple backstep in heavy.
It also affects damage and healing output quite significantly, heavy armor being the worst as it's wearers do like 20% less damage and has an even greater impact on healing reduction. To
I'm told the healing reduction was a recent nerf in order to reduce the number of "paladin" builds as healers in heavy armor were able to tank/heal far too much damage compared to others.
Paladins are still viable, but definitely have to be more careful, especially against elites.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
How can you have any of these mechanics when people are now running around with only 2-5 attack moves. Today every attack move is a "does everything" move. Even if a game does have a small resist to a particular type of attack like say "blunt", the mobs are so easy now you can just power through it even if you are using the blunt weapon.
I remember in DAOC you actually had attack chains, where after a successful block/parry/dodge (or other move) you could do a special followup power move for even better effects. Also the followup moves were powerful, they could easily distinguish newbs from elite players.
This all stems from the industry dumbing the games down for consoles, now they are doing it even more for mobile.
The different damage types and mobs being more or less weak to them is a concept that also exists in New World. And also the fact that you don't really have a class but the stats and weapons you're using define your character.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There's bonuses for attacking when either the player or npc are at full health, stamina or magic as well as attack and defense bonuses for when players / npcs are less than full health, even more so if below 50%.
New World's NPCs are far more mobile when attacking than those in DAOC which tended to bore straight in or attack at range in a very flatfoot manner.
Ranged attackers often shoot then move, sometimes standing off, other times closing for the kill in a series of dodging leaps towards you.
Mele NPCs do similar, often blocking on their way in if carrying a shield and definitely trying to get behind you for a backstab.
NPCs sometimes have abilities and skills not available to players (yet?).
Two hand pistols, dual wielding knives, swirling energy knife / blade pylons than continue to damage even after the npc's death are just part of their repertoire.
Oh yeah, a good tactic against ranged is to shoot them at range, then duck behind cover, waiting for the NPC archer to come into range.
I noticed at level 60 some NPCs employ the same tactic, shooting you and ducking for cover until the player sticks their neck out again.
I've even had patrolling melee NPCs suddenly duck back behind a corner if they happen to stumble into me during their rounds.
While there is no system message saying so I swear some boss NPCS call for help as their followers can come running from other parts of the local area if their master is under attack.
So overall, pretty complex systems really, perhaps in a different way than old school titles, and not as punishing, but at least the NW devs are trying.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Backstabs, headshots.
Actually, NW combat is one of the closest to AC1, since like AC1, you can also dodge ranged attacks, and ranged attacks have to anticipate movement. Unlike EQ/WoW clones, dodging isn't just a stat on a character sheet with a chance of success.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Neither is necessarily better but I will always prefer to play a character (The Roleplay in RPG) and not me in a skin.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023