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Impressions of the NGE - Final Update - 11/20/05
Elnator
Member Posts: 6,077
Hey guys... This is my final update. My 'free trial' ends in a few days. Some friends who had cancelled but hadn't expired yet let me borrow their accounts to do some testing in the 'non trial' game and I've updated my review with what I've found there. And it's almost all negative unfortunately.
I went into this expansion/upgrade/change with as open a mind as possible. And at first it looked great. But the further I went in the trial, and then when I played the *real* game the gaps and omissions and outright poor planning became glaringly obvious.
Initial impressions:
It's obvious that a lot of thought went into this update and it's also obvious that they honestly didn't care how the 'old subscribers' felt about the changes they implemented. I will only comment on things I've tried, not things that I've read or think so that I can keep this review as 100% objective as possible...
The new intro is much better though I think they need to lose any and all references to the timeline. It still bothers me that you can be a 'jedi' in a time when there weren't supposed to be any besides Vader and Yoda and the Emperor. But the intro itself is very well done. I also liked that the few 'loading screens' I saw had quotes from the characters in the movies instead of stupid quotes from 'imperial/rebel messages' that nobody really understood what the hell they were about.
I really liked the addition of 'cutscenes' in some areas as well instead of the traditional 'loading' screen. I am hoping they eventually eliminate ALL the loading screens when you land/launch in space and replace them with cutscenes of each appropriate spaceship launching / landing instead.
Combat:
This gets started pretty much right off the bat.
Combat Style: I have to say that I really like the new combat method. People have complained about having to 'constantly click' the mouse. This simply isn't true at all. All you have to do is hold the 'trigger button' (left mouse key) down and keep your cursor on the target. If you're GOOD at FPS combat this is actually VERY cool because you can moove and shoot and dodge enemy fire using movement. (which you couldn't before by the by).
Combat Bugs: Currently I've not done much but there is definitely a problem with collision detection and LOS for NPC's as they WILL continue to shoot you through walls if you duck around the corner. (It's also possible to shoot through some objects and walls as a player). This needs to be a priority on SOE's list to fix.
Melee combat is very unbalanced verses ranged combat. Personally this doesn't bother me because I really don't feel that melee (other than maybe jedi) belongs in a Star Wars game. Even in KOTOR I got a kick out of idiots running at my jedi with swords drawn. In this game melee are very unbalanced against ranged professions. Ranged people can just kite melee's all day. In PVE it's not too bad, in PVP it's just a melee slaughterfest.
Classes
The dreaded section...
Pros:
- Appear to have finally decided to make the professions in the game have a purpose. Each 'profession' now has a pretty clear 'purpse' and 'use'. This only holds true in the first few levels of the game, however, as SOE didn't see fit to add any content beyond CL30. And Mustafar's content (CL70-90) is 'generic' not 'profession specific'.
Cons:
- Only 9 Professions, the other 23 have been merged or outright eliminated and reduced to these 9.
- No 'skill' system at all
- Each Level you get fixed, set, skill(s). No variation at all from player to player. A smuggler will be the same as any other smuggler. Same for jedi, BH etc.
- No 'dabbling' in other professions. What you choose is what you are. Till you delete the character and start over.
- Can't "unlearn" a profession and learn a new one (see above). Have to re-start from scratch with a new toon (or play a new toon on another server) Or reach your 1 year anniversary and get the 'profession restart' tool that lets you become level 1 in any profession. (Just another word for 're-roll').
- XP is granted through quests for the most part. Problem is they didn't add any XP quests beyond CL30 and none of the original SWG quests grant XP so players are stuck at CL30 once they reach it. the "standard" or "Grinding" XP was nerfed to near non-existance so unless you REALLY enjoy grinding the same mobs over and over and over again (remember those old complaints, well it's worse now) you are frozen at CL30 till SOE gets around to adding quests from CL30 to CL70 so you can go to Mustafar (IF you bought the expansion).
Smuggler Class:
Style: Wow... at first blush it looks like they may FINALLY be getting Smugglers right. As mentioned above, the class specific stuff is cool but only lasts till CL30 (and, really, post CL6'ish it's few and far between) when SOE evidently stopped bothering adding new quests to the game. So while the class diversity looks really cool at first it quickly fades and you're 'just another toon' at this point. More content is promissed but considering this is a pre-existing game they really should have taken the time to get all the content needed for basic gameplay in before releasing NGE.
Bugs: Not really a bug so much as either stupidity, oversight or just plain apathy there is no quest content that allows players to advance beyond CL30. More content is 'promised' but no timeline has been given.
Level System:
The first time I levelled up I was a bit surprised. Like in EQ2 no longer do you need to visit a trainer when you go up a level. Then again, at least the first couple levels seemed ***linear*** rather than 'choose what skill you want'. Which bothers me. After further playing the level system is truely depressing. They've taken the original version of 32 professions which you could mix and match at will and cut them down to 9. While this wouldn't be too bad if you could still choose which skills you got you can't even do that. The level system is not only linear but the skills you get are fixed and level locked like in EQ. You have no choice which skills you get when and you don't get access to even the 'trees' you had in the old professions. At level X you get Y skill.
Pros: No longer have to stop what you're doing to 'go train'
Cons:
- Rigid system. No mixing and matching professions like before to make a truely custom character. All Smugglers will be the same. All bounty hunters, etc. The only thing that will differentiate them is the armor they wear.
- Skills are level locked. Even within a given profession you cannot pick which skills you learn, you are 'force fed' the skills you will get completely based upon your level
- Game is now 100% level based.
- Only real way to gain XP is quests. Unfortunately the quests stop at CL30.
General
Missions: So far the 'normal' missions seem to be not too terribly much different than before. They do a LOT more hand-holding than they used to though, which is both good and bad. The class specific ones I've done so far do seem to be much better.
Pros:
- Several nice missions are available in the new player area. Lots of things for a new player to do which will teach them the ropes.
- Have tripped across the first drawback of the new missions. With the game now even more *level* based than it became with the CU the missions you get should key based upon what level you are and give you a difficulty indicator. They, in fact, do not. There are a couple missions that I have stumbled across that could be VERY frustrating for a new player because they are highly likely to get them long before they should be trying them.
- Missions stop at CL30 and leave you stranded.
Glaring issues:
- NPC's shoot through walls.
- UI is much more of a pain in the ass to customize
- The new level system will really turn off anyone who loved the skill based system of before. The new level system is even more rigid than EQ2 or WoW.
- Strands players at CL30 with no way to reach CL70. There are no quests that give XP to players. The old quests are all ranked as 'level 0' and yield no XP reward so the only option is to 'grind' by killing NPC's. Add in the huge XP nerf that was added along with NGE and it's going to take people months (literally) to go from CL30 to CL80, where they can do the mustafar quests. SOE has 'promised' to 'add' the missing quests in in the 'future' but for me this is just a huge oversight. Those quests should have been in at the time NGE went live. This isn't a 'startup' where you add end-game content later. This is an existing game with thousands of players stuck at their current CL because of this change.
That's all I'm going to post about the NGE. For the first few hours it was great. After that the shortcomings (in this reviewers opinion) started showing up. If you've never played SWG before it probably won't seem like a bad game. For veterans, however, who enjoyed skill based advancement and the old variety of classes as well as the ability to 'build your own template' the game has changed for the worse.
Make of it what you will. I attempted to remain as objective as I could and I approached it from the perspective of a long-time player. If you want a review from someone who's never played SWG this is not the review for you.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Comments
I'm sorry.. But I'm offended at your fedex comment.
We all know that the only galactic delivery service is UPS... Underworld Parcel Service.
UPS.. We deliver S*** Old School.
(That's a nod to Intrepid's highly sucessful ingame delivery service... great bunch of guys.)
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
They did the early game really well. However they screwed up the rest of it, with releasing it to soon.
The FPS combat system doesn't really work in groups and on some mobs. People and mobs get in the way. Also the targeting really shows up as a weakness when you come across small sized mobs. Mobs also play by CU rules, they can kite you outside the range of what many weapons converted to.
Jedi are also a joke, because they forgot to add any innate armour (think WoW warrior in cloth armour). Also Kashyyyk quests aren't giving XP, not that I saw anyway. Mustafar is fine though.
Its back to the old release at deadline, regardless and fix things after. Which granted they will. I'm just hoping they put target locks back in aswell.
As I said, I will only comment, in my review, on what I've personally seen and tried. I'm not going to post ANY hearsay statements. I don't doubt what you're saying but in the interest of remaining impartial and objective I am only going to add information that I've personally experienced or seen in the game.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Fair game.
I am actually playing it and like most of the changes, just not the bugs and oversights.
I keep saying the changes in question aren't bad at all, at least on paper. They are finally getting around to doing what they should have started with, putting the Star Wars in SWG.
But doing it in such a manner not sensitive to the players, their customers, is typical of SOE and a pointer that says to many they just don't care.
The people responsible for THAT are the ones that need to be ushered out. They just don't have a realistic view of how to treat their customers.
Incompetence, has become the word of the day.
I'll leave your post with this recap - WILL THEY FINALLY FINISH WHAT THEY START? They haven't to-date...and it's been five and a half YEARS.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I'd like to read some reviews on either the Bounty Hunter or Commando professions.
I'm hoping to get some time to play the trial, or even wait until the holidays to resub for a month. Right now, I imagine that the number of bugs may interfere with getting the most out of a trial.
Nice review though El.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Agree 100% with everything you've said. I'm not analyzing what they may do or might do or should do. Just what they HAVE done.
Matter of fact I'm not even analyzing it, just reporting
Hopefully people will see it as an objective review and be able to use it to make a decision whether they want to give the game a try or not. One of the things I have always detested about most reviews is they're almost always slanted. I'm going to work very hard to keep mine as objective and about "the current game" as I can rather than dig into politics or management decisions, etc. I'll leave that to you, it's your thing 
Not mine.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Want to know what is in the free trial for any profession?
1 unique profession mission each. All the rest are generic missions all professions may run.
So if you thought oh boy more content for my profession... BUZZ. Sorry. Doesn't matter what profession you choose. 1 Unique mission. I did spy. I had to run and click on some terminals... It required no stealth, no thought, the wp was handed to you. It was childish. Thanks SOE!
I did Jedi. 1 unique mission. Then all the generic ones. Think of it this way. You will land on tatooine. First mission. Run around tatooine clicking on a container to build your speeder! oooooh... there is some depth... click on npc to get a vehicle customization kit.. ooh... but don't bother trying to customize your speeder cause they are broken...
It is a borked game right now and requires at least 3 months of debugging just to get simple things to work and be balanced. That is until u all realize a jedi rifleman with his saber special can 1 shot kill you. You will all realize real quick. Look for level certed weapons only with descent damage. Then fire jedi specials.... It is wickedly awesome. Oh and wait till armor gets uncerted and jedi slap that on... oh well... I am so sick of every month betaing there game. Its disgusting. Every single time you think alright most of the bugginess, balance issues are solved. Then bam! Nerf, revamp, all over again. F*ck SOE. F*ck them up there stupid arses. This last thing is absurdly stupid and unnecessary. It wasn't even tested 15 days in beta. So anyone saying they put time into this. F*ck you too.
I agree with what Elnator has to say about the game. One problem I was facing with the game though, was naseua when playing 3rd person. I actually found a way around that today. Like the old way, I expanded the invisible box that lets the crosshairs move around freely before actually turning the camera. This helped immensly and I no longer get or feel sick.
The only thing I am mad at right now is the fact that I cannot play until I can get the respec kit that we are suppose to get when we level so we are not left as gimps.
Thank you Hax, you have just proven EXACTLY why I decided to do the trial *myself* and do an impartial review of what the game is now. I may come to the same conclusions as you but I refuse to take your word for it. You're a bit to ahh.... 'volatile'... to rely on for an objective review.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
He is here like most of us getting tired of every single thread trying to worsen the state of SWG. Unless attempts at that. Gets quite annoying after a while.
I grabbed the trial, and gave it a whirl as well. I really enjoyed the game when I played pre-CU/JtL, but just got to burnt out doing the holocube profession grind. With that in mind, I actually enjoyed the trial, to an extent. I was rather disappointed that, like EQ2, I wasn't able to leave the tutorial station without subscribing, as I have an eerie feeling that, also like EQ2, the coolness/fun factor of the tutorial is not on par with the rest of the game.
The only things I didn't care much for were the UI, which is a major step back from the old one in my opinion. I found it to be clunky, and not very intuative. The controls where ok, though a bit on the loose side. I did get a bit annoyed that it reset my camera position every time I zoned, though it's not that big of a deal.
Mobs shooting through walls was a huge annoyance to me, though. Particularly when I'm some 40 meters away, and one floor up from them. I haven't tried a ranged class yet, so I don't know if players suffer from LoS restrictions, and I've heard that they do, and don't, so no idea there.
My last complaint would be the hokey pictures of Luke, Boba Fett, etc in the class panel. It's just a personal preference, but I think they'd have been better served with either a generic class related picture, or just a picture of your character, ala KotOR. Again, maybe it's just me, but the picture of Luke in the Jedi class panel just seems out of place, not because he's not a Jedi, but because it doesn't fit in well with the look and feel of the panel as a cut n paste of an actual picture.
So far I think the changes are ok, though I don't think they added a more "Star Wars" feel to the game, so much as making it feel more like a console game. I am a bit saddened that they gutted the sandbox aspect of the game, though. All in all, it's pretty neat, and I might resub for a month after they've had a month or two to work out the major kinks.
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Don't click here...no2
Thank you Hax, you have just proven EXACTLY why I decided to do the trial *myself* and do an impartial review of what the game is now. I may come to the same conclusions as you but I refuse to take your word for it. You're a bit to ahh.... 'volatile'... to rely on for an objective review.
Hey Elnator. I just looked at your bio and you don't live too far from me. I live in Newport News.
Both of you guys don't live very far from me either. I'm in Danville, VA. Small world..but anyways ....Elnator is one of the most respected SWG forum members on MMORPG.com. He's been around quite a while and knows a great deal about SWG. Usually when he gives a review or gives advice about SWG, people that come here alot know and respect his words.
I had quit SWG 2 months ago, and was about to come back this week and play again until I started reading up on the NGE and all the reviews the players gave it. Now I have kinda been turned off from SWG again based on all the negativity. I guess it's just time to move on to another game. SOE has given alot of players and the community the shaft more than once, especially players on the Bria server which had so many problems and issues that it drove alot of folks away.
I guess this just gives us one more reason to not play SWG anymore. I think it might be time to let this game go, and move on to something else. That's probably what I'll do.
Thanks.
Joe
Somehow honesty and you just don't seem to fit Scaramoosh.
Anywho ...
I think El will provide as much of an impartial review of the NGE as possible.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Thanks for the kind words folks. And yes, I will do my very best to remain objective.
As to whether I "think" I'm a Dev or not? I don't. I'm a network engineer by trade. I gave up my "Developer" days shortly after getting out of college and realizing what a bunch of jerks corporate execs are when asking you to program anything.
<Random Exec> "We wanted it do do this, damnit!"
<Elnator's Response> "Well sir, then maybe you should have asked for that on your project request. This program does exactly what you asked for, flawlessly".
<Random Exec> "But we didn't know that wasn't what we wanted"
<Elnator's Response> "7 P's sir... 7 P's."
<Exec> "???"
<Elnator> (thinking) 'exactly'...
Needless to say... it got old fast. I hate programming to someone else's schedule.
I honestly respect and admire those who have the patience for it. It drove me bonkers. Now I work on networks. Servers switches and routers don't generally talk back 
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
So what ya think El? Time to probably seriously consider moving on from SWG? I loved it when I came back to play but this was pre-NGE and it was so much better. I had alot of fun hunting jedi and doing NPC missions for loot along with the entire SWG community. I felt like the players on Bria once you got to know them were very helpful and friendly. It was a great experience, however real life took over for a few months and I had to quit. Now that I'm back, practically the entire mechanics of the game changed and it's not looking like it was for the better. I don't know, maybe I'm skeptical. However, whenever I have to actually think of reasons to come back and play...that usually means it's just time to move on.
You even said yourself, back in the day that you were going to let it go. Is now the time?
Joe
Honestly at this point it's too early to tell. Currently my account is cancelled but I'm doing the 'free trial' to review this. From what I understand I'll eventually have to resubscribe in order to try things 'beyond' the trial but I'll deal with that when the time comes. I'll continue updating my review on the 1st post I made so keep an eye on that to see my impressions of the game as I play through the trial.
If you haven't done so I would recommend going and creating a new 'dummy' station account and getting a free trial of your own. That way you can try it without giving SOE any monetary benefit. (Trial doesn't require a CC either).
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
When I saw the title of the thread, I knew I could trust Elnator to give it an honest, unbiased by the evil empire turned satanic cult that many believe is SOE.
Very good summation of what you have seen, and I have to agree with all of it.
Last night I was continuing my mission to try and buy my way out of Jabba's service in Mos Eisley. I had some mission to travel into some caves to kill these scorpion like creatures to get their poison glands for some evil deed Jabba no doubt had in mind. Not sure if the caves were new, although I suspect they were. Was fun running through the caves fighting off the inhabitants and finally finding the creatures I had to farm. They were kind of like scorpions without the big stinger tails.
There was a pathing issue with one of them but overall it went off very slick. I actually chucked a grenade (Commando) and aggrod about 7 of the things and they all quickly pwned me. Have to say I loved exploring the caves and the overhead map worked for it, might have gotten lost might not, but it's nice to have.
I then went on a subsequent mission further into this installation of the "white *something*" sorry can't remember lol was pretty late at night. Basically some aggroing humans of nefarious character with a fairly complex underground bunker. Was a long mission of planting viruses into their computers, retrieving data, eventually killing a named Manager dude and slicing his account for info and taking a few thousand creds for myself. I got some decent stat gear out of it too. I logged out about 3 am on the very last portion so I have that to look forward to after work.
Overall it's been very fun so far, the collision which will be added is going to be a definite asset. Also I would like to see some extra touches, such as a zoom in and a progress meter for the bomb defusing and hacking/slicing/computer terminal parts of the missions.
But the missions so far have been very "Star Warsy" and although I'm level 19 and the mobs/enemies have been green so far, if I was the right level, a group would be highly recommended for them. At 3 am there were 4 people inside the installation I was in, a couple of CL80 vets running the missions too. I like the idea of doing Jabbas dirty work to avoid getting killed, kinda like Han working off his debt lol sounds cheesy but I have always loved Star Wars and I still do.
Again I appreciate the objectivity Elnator, I'd say to keep it up but I know you will. I'm out of the trial and reveling in life on Mos Eisley. Finally got into Erillions PA and have to say they're a good bunch of blokes. I'm really interested to hear a Traders point of view on the changes, objective ones that is. Seems like all the trainers still say the same things so I'm hoping crafting hasn't changed too too much and that I'll find one who knows what kind of weapon I can have. At level 21 I get to use Blast armor, can't wait.
Also I have to say I really like the rewards for completing quests. Last night I got one of those chinese type hats and some boots, pants and a shirt, all which added stats. Very kewl looking and gotta love added stats.
EDIT: spelling
Yes, nice for you, but what about the tailor who can now pack his or her business up because the majority of players will now be going for quested/looted stat clothing since BE tissues are no more? You just provided a perfect example of one of the many reasons why so many people are against the NGE.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.