Originally posted by anarchyart Just have to add Elnator that, while sometimes you do get missions that are too difficult for you, there is a stated level requirement for each of them. It says what level you should be for them, not sure if you noticed or not as in your review it seemingly states there is no way to tell.
Yes, I know. I met the level requirement for one of the quests and it was STILL nearly impossible. I had to get a group to pull it off. Not a bad thing but it didn't indicate the necessity of a group. And, trust me, I am not a novice when it comes to finding creative ways to complete a difficult mission solo. There's just not too much you can do when 15 agg "blue con" NPC's are stacked in 1 room. It's group or die Especially when the respawn is as high as it is.
Also, what you choose is not what you are. You get a respec kit good for 10 respecs of your profession. Others have stated they don't work yet, but they worked for me. I respecced to Jedi and when I discovered they can't wear any armor at all, I again respecced to commando.
Yep, you get 10. After that it's OVER. I'm sorry that is NOT what I'm talking about. 10 respecs and out is garbage. Who cares. I'm not talking about being able to respec 10 times. I'm talking about being able to slowly unlearn one profession and train up another. That is GONE. You can't do it. And once you're out of respecs those are gone forever and don't come back.
I'm affraid that what I've seen on the station is enough to make me not want to return to the game. I'm not impressed with what they've done. The new system is CLASS/LEVEL locked and there is no diversity within a class. You can't even pick what skills you get within your own class. They're force fed to you as you level and you can't manipulate the skill trees like you could before to get more useful skills earlier or what have you. This new system sucks compared to the old skill system in terms of 'character development'.
As I said: A smuggler is a smuggler is a smuggler. Any level 20 smuggler is identical to any other level 20 smuggler. And the new system REALLY hurts crafters too as quested gear is better than anything that can be crafted currently. This was true in CU as well but now that the entire game revolves 100% around quests you are constantly getting gear that's better than anything you can get from a crafter. Thus: Crafting = worthless. And there's no item decay either so there isn't even a repair market.
My points stand. And I'm GLAD you enjoy the game but the things you claim to like are very superficial to me. ALL the quests you're enjoying could have been implemented without tossing out one of the best skill based systems in any MMORPG and without nixing 23 professions. The new combat system, which I do enjoy, could have been implemented as well. Everything that they WANTED to do could have been done without tossing out the entire original game to replace it with yet another EQ clone. Because now that is all it is with a more FPS style combat system.
And dont' get me started on Jedi as a starter profession. Just.... don't.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by haxxjoo The gripe is the only reasonable way a person can reach lvl 90 is to buy the expansion. In wow you can reach your max lvl without an expansion. To state you don't need to max out in swg is absurd because you still have modifiers based on levels. So basically you buy the expansion to be a full templated character or grind hopelessly. Remember the NGE stops at lvl 30. From there it becomes a massive grind through 40 more levels. It is something to keep in mind when you consider a new character. Once he/she/it is level 30 all that new questing/adventure ends.
The expansion for WoW increases the max level from 60 to 70. From what I have read so far, you need the expansion to unlock those 10 levels. You don't need the expansion in SWG to unlock the levels, but it certainly makes the grind alot quicker and funner
Originally posted by anarchyart Just have to add Elnator that, while sometimes you do get missions that are too difficult for you, there is a stated level requirement for each of them. It says what level you should be for them, not sure if you noticed or not as in your review it seemingly states there is no way to tell. Also, what you choose is not what you are. You get a respec kit good for 10 respecs of your profession. Others have stated they don't work yet, but they worked for me. I respecced to Jedi and when I discovered they can't wear any armor at all, I again respecced to commando. Last night I finally finished my tasks that Jabba wanted me to do, when it happened, up pops Jabba in the corner of the screen telling me I was free to go, I know I'm easy to please, but that was very kewl! I was rewarded with a new rifle that looks different than the n00by rifle I had and outdamaged even the crafted one I had bought a few weeks before the NGE came out. It was a long series of missions and quests and I enjoyed it immensely. Then I was given the choice of seeking out the Imperial or Rebel recruiters: I chose Imperial as my PA is mostly Imperial and there's just too many Rebels. I like the underdog, lucky that I live in Vancouver as my hockey team is the perfect underdogs choice. So off I went on another series of missions, which took me to cave systems and Tosche station (where Luke wanted to get those power converters, damn Uncle Owen!) and to moisture farms just like Uncle Ownes and even to Watto's robot shop from Episode 1 where I logged out last night. I definitely know why the vets are so ticked off now, well one of the major reasons they may or may might ever come to find out. Respeccing in the NGE sucks. Learning a character you have played for over 2 years over again would just suck. Starting from scratch is damn fun. I have now seen more of Tatooine in 2 days than I ever did in 3 months, and that is the charm of the Star Wars universe that was totally lost on me, and I'm sure many others playing the old game. The quests take you to all the wonderful places from Georgie boys imagination, and they are well worth visiting. The game went from hardcore technical to casual fun, and for that I do sympathize with those who underwent the trials and probable name calling and harrassment for sticking with the flawed game for so long. For those vets who detest the new system, all I can say is start over, you might like it, I sure as hell am loving it. If not, then may the schwartz be with you.
I tried out the new system yesterday after resubscribing. Instead of respeccing both my CL80 toons, I rerolled. I agree rerolling is fun. The tutorial tells you how to play with the new system and is actually quite easy. For those who read the Dev chat the other day know that your Def is calculated off your agility. I created a Jedi and have received many agility enhancing items including my robes. I can take on enemies 2 or 3 levels higher then me. All I can say is that the veterans who decided to respec than reroll will have a harder time because they are at a disadvantage for not having all the experiance we will have by rerolling. We will have more experiance with the new game controls and will probably have better equipment that money can't buy. All they have is money and the CL 80 going for them which at this point isn't as good as starting over.
Originally posted by Shayde The devs said you have to buy mustifar to level past 80?
HAhAHAHAHAHhahahaHAHAhahahahAHAAaaaaaaaaa
What a way to stick it to the vets again. Offer the refunds, then say "If ya want level 81... shell out 30 bucks" That's eeeeeeeeevil.
Really? You're serious.. I havent tried to level, just been exploring. I am level 80 and without that piece of garbage known as ToOW its pointless to level anyhow?
Go to our forum, intrepid.galaxyforums.com . There's a lot of people trying to cope with the new mess, and have been sharing all the info they can get on it. The only place they have found that gives them reasonable XP is mustifar. They pointed out the dev post that said "If you want xp, buy ToOW."
Ain't that a kick in the nads.
As I said before, what is the gripe with this? So people who buy the expansion get a bonus for doing so, isn't this what an expansion is meant to do? Help you expand in the game? This is exactly what WoW is doing with their expansion, but as I said, you can't get the extra 10 levels with out buying the expansion in WoW. But of course, Blizzard can do no wrong
The gripe is the only reasonable way a person can reach lvl 90 is to buy the expansion. In wow you can reach your max lvl without an expansion. To state you don't need to max out in swg is absurd because you still have modifiers based on levels. So basically you buy the expansion to be a full templated character or grind hopelessly.
Remember the NGE stops at lvl 30. From there it becomes a massive grind through 40 more levels. It is something to keep in mind when you consider a new character. Once he/she/it is level 30 all that new questing/adventure ends.
One of the reasons I bought a MMORPG is because I thought it would take years to build a character since the game never ends. I'm sorry you can't reach your max level over night, in a week or a month. This doesn't bother me one bit. If it takes a year to get to max level I won't complain because that's a year I won't need to buy another MMORPG.
If only they had taken all this time and effort of the NGE and placed into the Original SWG, you know more quests, the actual Profession changes and enhancements they talked about for months, it would have been better imo.
I agree with Cerion here, this is right on. A few things to add. I don't understand why people think that adding Chewie and Han to the introduction section makes the NGE more Star Warsy. This kind of content could have been added at any time they just chose not to. They had Han and Chewie pre-NGe they decided to lock them in the back of some cantina somewhere. It has nothing to do with the NGE. I'll also never figure out why someone would think a twitch based system feels more Star Warsy. This kind of comment makes me think the person saying it prefers that type of combat system and is showing their bias. Another thing that I've heard more than once is this notion that the NGE allows people to run and shoot. That was always part of the game and is not something new thanks to the graces of the NGE. A lot of people trying this are gonna find out soon enough that when the outer layer of the content onion has been peeled away and they're looking for the next it won't be there. There isn't any new content once your combat level gets past 30. This has always been an issue for SWG and nothing has changed. You can put perfume on a turd but.....
Originally posted by Jheron If only they had taken all this time and effort of the NGE and placed into the Original SWG, you know more quests, the actual Profession changes and enhancements they talked about for months, it would have been better imo. I agree with Cerion here, this is right on. A few things to add. I don't understand why people think that adding Chewie and Han to the introduction section makes the NGE more Star Warsy. This kind of content could have been added at any time they just chose not to. They had Han and Chewie pre-NGe they decided to lock them in the back of some cantina somewhere. It has nothing to do with the NGE. I'll also never figure out why someone would think a twitch based system feels more Star Warsy. This kind of comment makes me think the person saying it prefers that type of combat system and is showing their bias. Another thing that I've heard more than once is this notion that the NGE allows people to run and shoot. That was always part of the game and is not something new thanks to the graces of the NGE. A lot of people trying this are gonna find out soon enough that when the outer layer of the content onion has been peeled away and they're looking for the next it won't be there. There isn't any new content once your combat level gets past 30. This has always been an issue for SWG and nothing has changed. You can put perfume on a turd but.....
Your not saying anything new here. All this mumbo jumbo about there being no content after 30 has already been said. I know once I get to 30 I will have to find something else to do. I don't care. It will take me a few months to get there in the first place. Maybe by time then they will add more content. If not I can just grind till I can start more quests on Mustafar. Not a big deal to me. If I have fun from lvl 1 to 30 it's worth the money.
I did my time. My 1 toon is from server start of tempest. 1st day the server went live. It took me years to build that toon. He was one of the first bounty hunters and I had to run missions before speeders to level his investigation tree. You do the investigation grind with pet mounts. Then tell me to regrind anything. I did that branch and it was worse then grinding branches for jedi.
He went swords/tka for a while just to make a full suit of RIS armor. Which was crafted when the loot drops where 1 in 100 on dragons and you'd be lucky to get 3 gdk scales. I leveled my toon enough. I earned level 10000000000000 in swg. I never grinded aggressively towards jedi and treated the game and the process as the dev's said I should. Then they decided what the said was incorrect and decided a new game was better. It needed 10 more levels. Now my character I so thoughtfully and patiently developed in the game is junk. But I am suppose to listen to some dude tell me that I expect to go from lvl 80 to 90 in 1 week. I don't have the expansion because I paid enough for this game and the only way to level my toon to where he was before this crap nge is to buy more soe crap. No. I dont want it.
Frankly, I did my grind and was enjoying the game pre-cu. I was a doc and buffed at starports to kill time and chat. I would go on hunts. I earned the MBH title when it meant something. I hunted jedi. I was really enjoying swg. I had an alt account to play on Naritus with my little brother. I had more then enough credits. Things where good in that game. It had balance issues for sure. Now look at it. it is a mess of bugs and full of noob jedi whipping out there lightsabers running around. I wanted to vomit at the character selection screen when you choose your iconic profession. Of which you dont even get the option of a secondary class. This game has gone from mmo to a genre of game built for the rated g and pg crowd. Here is a tip for any mmo designers out there. This genre of games founding principle was targeting the aging gamers. Those looking for more then a fps. Those where we spend hours of time instead of infront of the tv. It was built for us 20 somethings and 30 somethings and older to finally have a place where we could play an adult geared video game with depth. It was suppose to be about attracting an audience willing to pay to play. As swg stands now anyone who pays for it is getting ripped off. It is not what MMO's where suppose to be about. It wasn't about appeasing the lowest common denominator of gamer. It was not about simplifying the games.
MMORPG.com you are obligated to take to task SOE in why it is breaking the cardinal rule for MMO's and trying to appeal to a crowd that is NOT typically the MMO market.
before NGE, even before CU I was considered one of the Top Weaponsmiths on my Server, on top of that I was also the leader of our Servers Largestt Imperial Guild if not the largest guild on the Server. What got me into SWG in the first place was the idea that I could make items that would have different stats then what everyone else produced depending on the amount of work I put into my craft (time gather resouces, how I experiemented and so fourth) That Started to Fade with CU, it completely vanished with NGE. NGE has left no room for a crafter type player anymore. They are now nothing more then assembly line workers that pump out the same product that everyone else does. If I wanted that I would have stayed a Bowyer in Ultima Online. What SOE and LA have done to the community was completely Wrong, they would have been better announcing they were coming out with SWG2 and closing SWG at some future date. At least that way I would not be feeling as if a bait and switch schem was pulled on me.
Well they archive done thing though. I like the game now as an nuub, much easier to start and understand the game then before. Yet even ingame I heard a lot of complaint espacialy from the oldies, but we talking about an SOE game....what else did you expected?
Originally posted by Jenneroflok before NGE, even before CU I was considered one of the Top Weaponsmiths on my Server, on top of that I was also the leader of our Servers Largestt Imperial Guild if not the largest guild on the Server. What got me into SWG in the first place was the idea that I could make items that would have different stats then what everyone else produced depending on the amount of work I put into my craft (time gather resouces, how I experiemented and so fourth) That Started to Fade with CU, it completely vanished with NGE. NGE has left no room for a crafter type player anymore. They are now nothing more then assembly line workers that pump out the same product that everyone else does. If I wanted that I would have stayed a Bowyer in Ultima Online. What SOE and LA have done to the community was completely Wrong, they would have been better announcing they were coming out with SWG2 and closing SWG at some future date. At least that way I would not be feeling as if a bait and switch schem was pulled on me.
I agree...I played CoH before SWG. After my first time logging into SWG I cancelled my CoH account. SWG to me was like a vast world...it wasn't linear grinding it was here you are on this planet and what you do from here is your choice...we have an economy here, we have things you can build, we all depend on each other.
That feeling was reduced with the CU and eliminated with the NGE. You can loot weapons better than you can craft. The weapons don't decay, why on earth would I want to buy a crafted one now. So I run missions and I receive credits as a reward...for what?
I started a new character with the NGE, and I'll have to admit, the tutorial is pretty good, but I would be totally disappointed going from the tutorial to what the game actually is.
Originally posted by anarchyart Just have to add Elnator that, while sometimes you do get missions that are too difficult for you, there is a stated level requirement for each of them. It says what level you should be for them, not sure if you noticed or not as in your review it seemingly states there is no way to tell. Also, what you choose is not what you are. You get a respec kit good for 10 respecs of your profession. Others have stated they don't work yet, but they worked for me. I respecced to Jedi and when I discovered they can't wear any armor at all, I again respecced to commando. Last night I finally finished my tasks that Jabba wanted me to do, when it happened, up pops Jabba in the corner of the screen telling me I was free to go, I know I'm easy to please, but that was very kewl! I was rewarded with a new rifle that looks different than the n00by rifle I had and outdamaged even the crafted one I had bought a few weeks before the NGE came out. It was a long series of missions and quests and I enjoyed it immensely. Then I was given the choice of seeking out the Imperial or Rebel recruiters: I chose Imperial as my PA is mostly Imperial and there's just too many Rebels. I like the underdog, lucky that I live in Vancouver as my hockey team is the perfect underdogs choice. So off I went on another series of missions, which took me to cave systems and Tosche station (where Luke wanted to get those power converters, damn Uncle Owen!) and to moisture farms just like Uncle Ownes and even to Watto's robot shop from Episode 1 where I logged out last night. I definitely know why the vets are so ticked off now, well one of the major reasons they may or may might ever come to find out. Respeccing in the NGE sucks. Learning a character you have played for over 2 years over again would just suck. Starting from scratch is damn fun. I have now seen more of Tatooine in 2 days than I ever did in 3 months, and that is the charm of the Star Wars universe that was totally lost on me, and I'm sure many others playing the old game. The quests take you to all the wonderful places from Georgie boys imagination, and they are well worth visiting. The game went from hardcore technical to casual fun, and for that I do sympathize with those who underwent the trials and probable name calling and harrassment for sticking with the flawed game for so long. For those vets who detest the new system, all I can say is start over, you might like it, I sure as hell am loving it. If not, then may the schwartz be with you.
I quite liked the NGE, only problem is the fact that the game is barren of any content between levels 30-80. If you want to go from 80 to 90 you have to own the mustafaar expansion. But that wont matter much beacuse after level 30 there simply isnt a way to level anymore.
_____________________ I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by ShaydeOriginally posted by rc_brooks Originally posted by ShaydeThe devs said you have to buy mustifar to level past 80?HAhAHAHAHAHhahahaHAHAhahahahAHAAaaaaaaaaa What a way to stick it to the vets again. Offer the refunds, then say "If ya want level 81... shell out 30 bucks" That's eeeeeeeeevil. Really? You're serious.. I havent tried to level, just been exploring. I am level 80 and without that piece of garbage known as ToOW its pointless to level anyhow?Go to our forum, intrepid.galaxyforums.com . There's a lot of people trying to cope with the new mess, and have been sharing all the info they can get on it. The only place they have found that gives them reasonable XP is mustifar. They pointed out the dev post that said "If you want xp, buy ToOW." Ain't that a kick in the nads.As I said before, what is the gripe with this? So people who buy the expansion get a bonus for doing so, isn't this what an expansion is meant to do? Help you expand in the game? This is exactly what WoW is doing with their expansion, but as I said, you can't get the extra 10 levels with out buying the expansion in WoW. But of course, Blizzard can do no wrong
Uhhh I dunno... Maybe because there were MANY MANY free places you could level before, noe the only place you can now is after you pay for a pathetic expansion? You think they didn't do that on purpose?
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
All of you doomsayers about the inability to gain xp obviously got spoiled by CU's xp rate gain. NGE made xp gain similar (the numbers are not the same) as the game was in it's first year. You are basically forced to go out and solo terminal missions until you are blue in the face. The difference is that now you get 1/4 the experience you used to get on a lair pre-CU. However, you more than make up for that since you can now take down a lair in about 1/8 the time you used to.
At CL80, I can gain xp faster by taking down lairs solo than anyone doing quests other than the 3 kill quests on mustafar. This method remains viable from 30-84, albiet boring. By the time you hit 84, the scheduled addition of missions / quests on original planets will have gone live and non-TOOW buying customers will have options other than mustafar.
Personally, I am not playing much now as I am waiting for several fixes to go live. I go in to test for about 1 hour every other day. Unfortunately, one of the biggest fixes I am waiting for (collision detection) is not slated for publish for possibly months.
Uhhh I dunno... Maybe because there were MANY MANY free places you could level before, noe the only place you can now is after you pay for a pathetic expansion? You think they didn't do that on purpose?
Same thing will be with the WoW expansion, you wanna level past 60 you HAVE to have the expansion. Pretty natural.
For the LAST time, SOE has stated several times that they are expanding the mission levels from terminals on "normal" planets. They have also stated that they will be adding quests on normal planets similar to the ones on mustafar for QL80-90. To learn this information, rather than assuming the worst, you could either read the Stratics dev chat or dev tracker.
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Shayde Uhhh I dunno... Maybe because there were MANY MANY free places you could level before, noe the only place you can now is after you pay for a pathetic expansion? You think they didn't do that on purpose?Same thing will be with the WoW expansion, you wanna level past 60 you HAVE to have the expansion. Pretty natural.
Where are you getting this false information from? People will be able to hit the new cap from expansion. Without owning the expansion. Maybe you should go check the FAQ on Burning Crusade again.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Where are you getting this false information from? People will be able to hit the new cap from expansion. Without owning the expansion. Maybe you should go check the FAQ on Burning Crusade again.
Originally posted by daeandor For the LAST time, SOE has stated several times that they are expanding the mission levels from terminals on "normal" planets. They have also stated that they will be adding quests on normal planets similar to the ones on mustafar for QL80-90. To learn this information, rather than assuming the worst, you could either read the Stratics dev chat or dev tracker.
Will believe it when it happens. SOE has made many promises in the past and not kept them.
Uhhh I dunno... Maybe because there were MANY MANY free places you could level before, noe the only place you can now is after you pay for a pathetic expansion? You think they didn't do that on purpose?
There are still many many places you can level, you don't HAVE to go to Mustafar to level up. Weren't you bitching and moaning a few weeks ago that the expnasion adds nothing new to the game, etc etc? Now that it does, you bitch and moan about that.
To whoever said WoW doesn't require the expansion for the extra levels, please show me evidence of this. I've looked and I cannot find, even the official FAQ implies that you need the expansion to get the extra levels. Isn't the way WoW works that you need to go certain locations to level up?
Well, there are other ways to grind, but I agree this is completely unacceptable. Personally, my entire guild on the Radiant server is planning on moving to another online game (preferably not WoW). An interview with Julio Torres on Gamespot made it seem that he questions our intelligence (or gullability), check it out if you can locate it.
Originally posted by daeandor For the LAST time, SOE has stated several times that they are expanding the mission levels from terminals on "normal" planets. They have also stated that they will be adding quests on normal planets similar to the ones on mustafar for QL80-90. To learn this information, rather than assuming the worst, you could either read the Stratics dev chat or dev tracker.
Dae: I don't care if they're ADDING them in the future. They've been working on NGE for over a year. I'm sorry, in that much time they should already have quests ready to go live that would have 'filled in the gaps' when they KNEW there would be people that would need them in order to advance.
If I had a year to develop them and pre-existing NPC's to give them I could have written thousands of quests, all by myself. I'm sorry. This is just poor prior planning, once again.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Dae: I don't care if they're ADDING them in the future. They've been working on NGE for over a year. I'm sorry, in that much time they should already have quests ready to go live that would have 'filled in the gaps' when they KNEW there would be people that would need them in order to advance. If I had a year to develop them and pre-existing NPC's to give them I could have written thousands of quests, all by myself. I'm sorry. This is just poor prior planning, once again.
Well El you would probably know better than me how much dev costs are as you are one of the poor monkeys that got told to program stuff at one time. However, what do you think it would have taken in your honest opinion to make 60 levels of questable content, all the while having your normal dev staff working on the existing system.
That's basically like all the quests in the original release of WoW wouldn't you say? 60 levels of questable content related to existing mobs, lore and locales. I'm no mathematician, but I'd say that is one tall order. So far what they HAVE done has delighted me, and correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all the quests from the pre NGE game still in existance? I'll find this out in the coming weeks, but would love to know right now.
I'm at Jabbas palace at level 21 almost level 22 and I have to win favor over his court to meet him face to face to find the last piece of R2 for my first Imperial quest. It's a doozy, I haven't had so much fun in an RPG since....well CoV a week ago lol except there's no loot in CoV and this is Star Wars. It's just rockin, and grouping is so freakin kewl.
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Elnator Dae:I don't care if they're ADDING them in the future. They've been working on NGE for over a year. I'm sorry, in that much time they should already have quests ready to go live that would have 'filled in the gaps' when they KNEW there would be people that would need them in order to advance. If I had a year to develop them and pre-existing NPC's to give them I could have written thousands of quests, all by myself. I'm sorry. This is just poor prior planning, once again. Well El you would probably know better than me how much dev costs are as you are one of the poor monkeys that got told to program stuff at one time. However, what do you think it would have taken in your honest opinion to make 60 levels of questable content, all the while having your normal dev staff working on the existing system. That's basically like all the quests in the original release of WoW wouldn't you say? 60 levels of questable content related to existing mobs, lore and locales. I'm no mathematician, but I'd say that is one tall order. So far what they HAVE done has delighted me, and correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all the quests from the pre NGE game still in existance? I'll find this out in the coming weeks, but would love to know right now. I'm at Jabbas palace at level 21 almost level 22 and I have to win favor over his court to meet him face to face to find the last piece of R2 for my first Imperial quest. It's a doozy, I haven't had so much fun in an RPG since....well CoV a week ago lol except there's no loot in CoV and this is Star Wars. It's just rockin, and grouping is so freakin kewl.
Sorry Anarchy... they had a whole team working on NGE on the sly. My point is this: I could have made, by my lonesome, just using existing NPC's, a fully linked and flowing quest system of over 500-600 quests if I only did the type they have in the station. If you use existing assets within the game (and there's no reason they couldn't have) throwing a quest in takes next to no effort. You just need to come up with the plot of the quest and the key players.
Since most of the quests are simply: Go get x item at y location and put it in z location or go kill x mob and bring back proof it would NOT have been hard to provide some basic quests to get players from CL30 to CL80. I'm sorry... it just wouldn't. As I said, I'm no longer a Dev but I *was* a programmer. And back in the day when I worked on MUDS it took all of 30 seconds to code a simple ass quest like that. Given the tools these guys have to develop in these engines you could easily crank out dozens of minor quests like that every day.
SOE either chose not to or flat out forgot that they'd need to provide a method for people to get from CL30 to CL80 in the new system. Poor Planning or Stupidity.... you choose.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
This NGE situation raises an interesting question.
Here's the thing... the EULA agreement let's us know that "Online game experience may change".
The people in support of the NGE are basically using this as their battle cry... "stop whining, you knew the game was going to change"
Some people have even begun to use that line from the EULA as their signature.
But I think the situation is more complex than that.
To begin with... I'm thinking about the situation that occured in China where a MMORPG gamer sued a gaming company because they lost his stuff in the game and he won. He proved to the court that the items in the game HAD REAL VALUE. They may have been "only" electronic weapons and items in a video game but they represented real time and energy spent by the guy and the court ruled that the gaming company could not just let his stuff dissappear with no recourse... they had to pay out a settlement.
So my central question is this... at what point do items in a video game represent enough real-world cost and time investment that they take on legal status as items that can not be stolen or lost w/out some recourse?
It's hard to imagine that many of the people who are so psyched about the NGE are long standing crafters for instance.
Crafters spend forever and a day putting together +12 exp suits, getting harvestors, doing lot trades with other servers, placing harvestors and keeping them up to date, gathering uber resources, storing all their stuff, getting factories, making factory crates of components, gathering schematics, experimenting and crafting, advertising, making a nice shop, placing vendors on different vendors and maintaining them all... etc... it takes a hell of a lot of time and intellectual energy to become a succesful crafter.
Now along comes the NGE and basically renders tons of stuff useless.
And how about combat skill itself? People spend all this time learning skills only to have them rendered useless. Or maybe the gun or sword they spent a month and 15 million credits for is being turned into a piece of valueless dogpoo (like my DE-10 did after the 1st CU for example)
Or how about the people who spent months grinding out jedi or have been jedi since pre-cu one who are having their whole profession NERFed!? That FS Village stuff takes forever and it's really boring for the most part... not to mention the ENDLESS grinding (while dealing with BH's taking away massive XP the whole time)
Etc Etc Etc (and for the record I'm not a crafter or even force sensitive... those are just good examples)
There's so many ways that the NGE NERFs people skill's and items.
And I don't think the pat answer, "online game experience may change" really covers this kind of change.
When the average consumer reads "online game experience may change" I don't think they read that to mean: You may spend 467 hours grinding out your jedi in the hopes that it will make you a bit more powerful in the game... because that's the way the game is set up only to find that your 467 hours will eventually mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
When the average consumer reads "online game experience may change" I don't think they read that to mean: You may spend 524 hours creating one of the best Chef/Weaponsmiths on the server only to find out that your 524 hours was a complete waste of your life because 1. experimentation is starting to mean nothing, 2. +12 suits are going away, 3. mods are changing, 4. decay is being taken out and oh yeah, 5. you can't be both of those crafting professions at the same time anymore so you'll have to get rid of half your stuff.
I have a personal friend in-game who is a MBE/MCH. How about him? Do you think he read "online game experience may change" to mean "the professions that you love to RP (and has played for a lonmg time) may become obsolete and be completely removed"?
I don't think so.
524 HOURS. Consider... a situation like we have now MMORPGs has not really existed before now. Think about the other kinds of "hobbies" people have... sports, playing music, going out and doing stuff, collecting stuff, etc ... most hobbies take up at most a few hours per week. People spend more time on these game than on all their other hobbies put together.
And many of the people are adults. Many are adults with careers and children. Adults with careers and children are not used to being jerked around and having something they spent 524 hours on just dissappear in a puff of smoke without doing something about it. Society has consumer protection laws for a reason. People in general need protection from corporations who have only profit as a bottom line (all of them).
Now I can understand if you are a younger player saying "oh stop whining, it's just a game. roll with it"... young folks are used to tearing things down ... it's what they do... the way they forge their own identity is in many ways to disrespect and distance themselves from what came before them. So for all the 12, 15, 18 year old PWNers out there who support the NGE I can understand where they are coming from and this argument is only a waste of time on them now... until they grow into adults they will not understand the value of respect... that's normal.
But the opinions of teens do not form consumer protection laws.
If you are a veteran player who is looking forward to the changes then it's likely that you don't have a succesful crafter or jedi or any super elite loot/weapons... in other words if you didn't spend 524 hours on one thing in the game then you don't really have anything to lose.
And that brings me back to my original question...
Don't some people in-game have someTHING to lose?
Be it items or time/emotional energy invested... it's not NOTHING.
Should laws be changed at some point to prevent this kind of thing from happening? Sure we don't want to tie the hands of game devs to change and improve their games... but nor do we want to waste time like this for nothing.
My final thought... I'm very unlikely to play another SOE/LA MMORPG if one ever comes out because they have proven to me that they don't consider the items in game and time spent by people to have ANY value. To them our time spent playing SWG is no different than some Comcast customer's time spent wathing cable TV.
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Yes, I know. I met the level requirement for one of the quests and it was STILL nearly impossible. I had to get a group to pull it off. Not a bad thing but it didn't indicate the necessity of a group. And, trust me, I am not a novice when it comes to finding creative ways to complete a difficult mission solo. There's just not too much you can do when 15 agg "blue con" NPC's are stacked in 1 room. It's group or die
Especially when the respawn is as high as it is.
Yep, you get 10. After that it's OVER. I'm sorry that is NOT what I'm talking about. 10 respecs and out is garbage. Who cares. I'm not talking about being able to respec 10 times. I'm talking about being able to slowly unlearn one profession and train up another. That is GONE. You can't do it. And once you're out of respecs those are gone forever and don't come back.
I'm affraid that what I've seen on the station is enough to make me not want to return to the game. I'm not impressed with what they've done. The new system is CLASS/LEVEL locked and there is no diversity within a class. You can't even pick what skills you get within your own class. They're force fed to you as you level and you can't manipulate the skill trees like you could before to get more useful skills earlier or what have you. This new system sucks compared to the old skill system in terms of 'character development'.
As I said: A smuggler is a smuggler is a smuggler. Any level 20 smuggler is identical to any other level 20 smuggler. And the new system REALLY hurts crafters too as quested gear is better than anything that can be crafted currently. This was true in CU as well but now that the entire game revolves 100% around quests you are constantly getting gear that's better than anything you can get from a crafter. Thus: Crafting = worthless. And there's no item decay either so there isn't even a repair market.
My points stand. And I'm GLAD you enjoy the game but the things you claim to like are very superficial to me. ALL the quests you're enjoying could have been implemented without tossing out one of the best skill based systems in any MMORPG and without nixing 23 professions. The new combat system, which I do enjoy, could have been implemented as well. Everything that they WANTED to do could have been done without tossing out the entire original game to replace it with yet another EQ clone. Because now that is all it is with a more FPS style combat system.
And dont' get me started on Jedi as a starter profession. Just.... don't.
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Really? You're serious.. I havent tried to level, just been exploring. I am level 80 and without that piece of garbage known as ToOW its pointless to level anyhow?
Go to our forum, intrepid.galaxyforums.com . There's a lot of people trying to cope with the new mess, and have been sharing all the info they can get on it. The only place they have found that gives them reasonable XP is mustifar. They pointed out the dev post that said "If you want xp, buy ToOW."
Ain't that a kick in the nads.
As I said before, what is the gripe with this? So people who buy the expansion get a bonus for doing so, isn't this what an expansion is meant to do? Help you expand in the game? This is exactly what WoW is doing with their expansion, but as I said, you can't get the extra 10 levels with out buying the expansion in WoW. But of course, Blizzard can do no wrong
The gripe is the only reasonable way a person can reach lvl 90 is to buy the expansion. In wow you can reach your max lvl without an expansion. To state you don't need to max out in swg is absurd because you still have modifiers based on levels. So basically you buy the expansion to be a full templated character or grind hopelessly.
Remember the NGE stops at lvl 30. From there it becomes a massive grind through 40 more levels. It is something to keep in mind when you consider a new character. Once he/she/it is level 30 all that new questing/adventure ends.
One of the reasons I bought a MMORPG is because I thought it would take years to build a character since the game never ends. I'm sorry you can't reach your max level over night, in a week or a month. This doesn't bother me one bit. If it takes a year to get to max level I won't complain because that's a year I won't need to buy another MMORPG.
If only they had taken all this time and effort of the NGE and placed into the Original SWG, you know more quests, the actual Profession changes and enhancements they talked about for months, it would have been better imo.
I agree with Cerion here, this is right on. A few things to add. I don't understand why people think that adding Chewie and Han to the introduction section makes the NGE more Star Warsy. This kind of content could have been added at any time they just chose not to. They had Han and Chewie pre-NGe they decided to lock them in the back of some cantina somewhere. It has nothing to do with the NGE. I'll also never figure out why someone would think a twitch based system feels more Star Warsy. This kind of comment makes me think the person saying it prefers that type of combat system and is showing their bias. Another thing that I've heard more than once is this notion that the NGE allows people to run and shoot. That was always part of the game and is not something new thanks to the graces of the NGE. A lot of people trying this are gonna find out soon enough that when the outer layer of the content onion has been peeled away and they're looking for the next it won't be there. There isn't any new content once your combat level gets past 30. This has always been an issue for SWG and nothing has changed. You can put perfume on a turd but.....
I did my time. My 1 toon is from server start of tempest. 1st day the server went live. It took me years to build that toon. He was one of the first bounty hunters and I had to run missions before speeders to level his investigation tree. You do the investigation grind with pet mounts. Then tell me to regrind anything. I did that branch and it was worse then grinding branches for jedi.
He went swords/tka for a while just to make a full suit of RIS armor. Which was crafted when the loot drops where 1 in 100 on dragons and you'd be lucky to get 3 gdk scales. I leveled my toon enough. I earned level 10000000000000 in swg. I never grinded aggressively towards jedi and treated the game and the process as the dev's said I should. Then they decided what the said was incorrect and decided a new game was better. It needed 10 more levels. Now my character I so thoughtfully and patiently developed in the game is junk. But I am suppose to listen to some dude tell me that I expect to go from lvl 80 to 90 in 1 week. I don't have the expansion because I paid enough for this game and the only way to level my toon to where he was before this crap nge is to buy more soe crap. No. I dont want it.
Frankly, I did my grind and was enjoying the game pre-cu. I was a doc and buffed at starports to kill time and chat. I would go on hunts. I earned the MBH title when it meant something. I hunted jedi. I was really enjoying swg. I had an alt account to play on Naritus with my little brother. I had more then enough credits. Things where good in that game. It had balance issues for sure. Now look at it. it is a mess of bugs and full of noob jedi whipping out there lightsabers running around. I wanted to vomit at the character selection screen when you choose your iconic profession. Of which you dont even get the option of a secondary class. This game has gone from mmo to a genre of game built for the rated g and pg crowd. Here is a tip for any mmo designers out there. This genre of games founding principle was targeting the aging gamers. Those looking for more then a fps. Those where we spend hours of time instead of infront of the tv. It was built for us 20 somethings and 30 somethings and older to finally have a place where we could play an adult geared video game with depth. It was suppose to be about attracting an audience willing to pay to play. As swg stands now anyone who pays for it is getting ripped off. It is not what MMO's where suppose to be about. It wasn't about appeasing the lowest common denominator of gamer. It was not about simplifying the games.
MMORPG.com you are obligated to take to task SOE in why it is breaking the cardinal rule for MMO's and trying to appeal to a crowd that is NOT typically the MMO market.
before NGE, even before CU I was considered one of the Top Weaponsmiths on my Server, on top of that I was also the leader of our Servers Largestt Imperial Guild if not the largest guild on the Server. What got me into SWG in the first place was the idea that I could make items that would have different stats then what everyone else produced depending on the amount of work I put into my craft (time gather resouces, how I experiemented and so fourth) That Started to Fade with CU, it completely vanished with NGE. NGE has left no room for a crafter type player anymore. They are now nothing more then assembly line workers that pump out the same product that everyone else does. If I wanted that I would have stayed a Bowyer in Ultima Online. What SOE and LA have done to the community was completely Wrong, they would have been better announcing they were coming out with SWG2 and closing SWG at some future date. At least that way I would not be feeling as if a bait and switch schem was pulled on me.
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Well they archive done thing though. I like the game now as an nuub, much easier to start and understand the game then before. Yet even ingame I heard a lot of complaint espacialy from the oldies, but we talking about an SOE game....what else did you expected?
I agree...I played CoH before SWG. After my first time logging into SWG I cancelled my CoH account. SWG to me was like a vast world...it wasn't linear grinding it was here you are on this planet and what you do from here is your choice...we have an economy here, we have things you can build, we all depend on each other.
That feeling was reduced with the CU and eliminated with the NGE. You can loot weapons better than you can craft. The weapons don't decay, why on earth would I want to buy a crafted one now. So I run missions and I receive credits as a reward...for what?
I started a new character with the NGE, and I'll have to admit, the tutorial is pretty good, but I would be totally disappointed going from the tutorial to what the game actually is.
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Uhhh I dunno... Maybe because there were MANY MANY free places you could level before, noe the only place you can now is after you pay for a pathetic expansion? You think they didn't do that on purpose?
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
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All of you doomsayers about the inability to gain xp obviously got spoiled by CU's xp rate gain. NGE made xp gain similar (the numbers are not the same) as the game was in it's first year. You are basically forced to go out and solo terminal missions until you are blue in the face. The difference is that now you get 1/4 the experience you used to get on a lair pre-CU. However, you more than make up for that since you can now take down a lair in about 1/8 the time you used to.
At CL80, I can gain xp faster by taking down lairs solo than anyone doing quests other than the 3 kill quests on mustafar. This method remains viable from 30-84, albiet boring. By the time you hit 84, the scheduled addition of missions / quests on original planets will have gone live and non-TOOW buying customers will have options other than mustafar.
Personally, I am not playing much now as I am waiting for several fixes to go live. I go in to test for about 1 hour every other day. Unfortunately, one of the biggest fixes I am waiting for (collision detection) is not slated for publish for possibly months.
Where are you getting this false information from? People will be able to hit the new cap from expansion. Without owning the expansion. Maybe you should go check the FAQ on Burning Crusade again.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Will believe it when it happens. SOE has made many promises in the past and not kept them.
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There are still many many places you can level, you don't HAVE to go to Mustafar to level up. Weren't you bitching and moaning a few weeks ago that the expnasion adds nothing new to the game, etc etc? Now that it does, you bitch and moan about that.
To whoever said WoW doesn't require the expansion for the extra levels, please show me evidence of this. I've looked and I cannot find, even the official FAQ implies that you need the expansion to get the extra levels. Isn't the way WoW works that you need to go certain locations to level up?
Dae:
I don't care if they're ADDING them in the future. They've been working on NGE for over a year. I'm sorry, in that much time they should already have quests ready to go live that would have 'filled in the gaps' when they KNEW there would be people that would need them in order to advance.
If I had a year to develop them and pre-existing NPC's to give them I could have written thousands of quests, all by myself. I'm sorry. This is just poor prior planning, once again.
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Well El you would probably know better than me how much dev costs are as you are one of the poor monkeys that got told to program stuff at one time. However, what do you think it would have taken in your honest opinion to make 60 levels of questable content, all the while having your normal dev staff working on the existing system.
That's basically like all the quests in the original release of WoW wouldn't you say? 60 levels of questable content related to existing mobs, lore and locales. I'm no mathematician, but I'd say that is one tall order. So far what they HAVE done has delighted me, and correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all the quests from the pre NGE game still in existance? I'll find this out in the coming weeks, but would love to know right now.
I'm at Jabbas palace at level 21 almost level 22 and I have to win favor over his court to meet him face to face to find the last piece of R2 for my first Imperial quest. It's a doozy, I haven't had so much fun in an RPG since....well CoV a week ago lol except there's no loot in CoV
and this is Star Wars.
It's just rockin, and grouping is so freakin kewl.
Sorry Anarchy... they had a whole team working on NGE on the sly. My point is this:
I could have made, by my lonesome, just using existing NPC's, a fully linked and flowing quest system of over 500-600 quests if I only did the type they have in the station. If you use existing assets within the game (and there's no reason they couldn't have) throwing a quest in takes next to no effort. You just need to come up with the plot of the quest and the key players.
Since most of the quests are simply: Go get x item at y location and put it in z location or go kill x mob and bring back proof it would NOT have been hard to provide some basic quests to get players from CL30 to CL80. I'm sorry... it just wouldn't. As I said, I'm no longer a Dev but I *was* a programmer. And back in the day when I worked on MUDS it took all of 30 seconds to code a simple ass quest like that. Given the tools these guys have to develop in these engines you could easily crank out dozens of minor quests like that every day.
SOE either chose not to or flat out forgot that they'd need to provide a method for people to get from CL30 to CL80 in the new system. Poor Planning or Stupidity.... you choose.
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