Originally posted by pirrg Thats why it only had 300k regular subscribers, even with a name like Star Wars and the immense hype it recieved in beta.
There's nothing wrong with dreaming. It's when you forget you're awake that dreaming becomes a problem.
I have _NEVER_ seen a single piece of advertisement for Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided. I have no clue what the OP is refering to as "immense hype".
Lack of advertising: Lucas Arts fault. (It's Star Wars, everyone knows what it is so we don't have to tell them...)
Lack of Content and persistence bugs: Sony Online Entertainment's problem. (moto: Less is more)
Originally posted by pirrg By improving i mean that its better then pre-cu ever was. Only a jedi ebay-merchant would fail to see that.
Anyway, whats the point, most of you didnt even read my post.
Like talking to a brick wall..
You forget, Star Wars fans are illiterate and have attention spans of about 6 seconds; which happens to be the average length of engagement in SWG.
There's been SO much removed from SWG that SOE will need another 2 years to implement content to make SWG "better then pre-cu ever was".
Also keep in mind that SOE hires their developers fresh out of college with no experiance for 6 months then cans them. Well, they just refuse to renew their contracts. This business model is the problem why SWG has become a terrible game in comparison to pre-cu.
Then also I have to wonder exactly why the OP wanted to explain all of this to us?
As far as I am concerned, I'll give SOE all the time they need. The fact is, it doesn't cost me a thing to give them time. I am cancelled, and I ain't coming back to what it is now.
But if the OP wants us all to pile in SWG, just because his crystal ball says the game will get better at some undisclosed point in the future, I say that is pretty dumb. Its much better I believe to play something that is finished, and already pretty good, than this thing that has yet to restabilize itself.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by pirrg Thats why it only had 300k regular subscribers, even with a name like Star Wars and the immense hype it recieved in beta.
There's nothing wrong with dreaming. It's when you forget you're awake that dreaming becomes a problem.
I have _NEVER_ seen a single piece of advertisement for Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided. I have no clue what the OP is refering to as "immense hype".
Lack of advertising: Lucas Arts fault. (It's Star Wars, everyone knows what it is so we don't have to tell them...)
Lack of Content and persistence bugs: Sony Online Entertainment's problem. (moto: Less is more)
Exactly right. Smed said in a launch interview that they were doing a "soft launch" and will rely on word-of-mough to drive the game. If they spent half what they did when they did the CU and nge advertizing campaigns (anyone see the pitiful infomercial? ) They'd have had a MUCH more successful game.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by pirrg Originally posted by duncan_922 Originally posted by pirrg .
This is great.... You mention all the wrong things that were with PRE-CU.... We all know it wasn't perfect. Yet you fail to mention once how this got bettered with the CU or the NGE. And promises don't count, we've seen enough of them already.
All the wrong things? The stuff i mentioned basically defines what pre-cu was. I never played during the CU but with the NGE, at least we have better profession balance and no overpowered alpha-class running around. And there is WAY more content in the game right now. Not to mention that the pvp has never been better.
Yes, all you say is only the bad things that pre-cu had, it doesn't define pre-cu. Because, by your reasoning, we would then have to define NGE as "one big pile of bugs" and it's be as much of a truth as your statement.
And profession balance? Well... That's a hot topic and I won't get into it much, since it has a lot to do with opinions and personal playstyle. But my opinion is that "balance" is a fool's dream, that when everyone is special, no one really is!
And "way more content"? You mean those "two expansions smack-filled with content and a great space simulator"???? Other than the fact that the code for the expansions were built on the code of the "revamps", what does it have to do with the issue? Are you trying to tell me that they HAD to make the CU and the NGE so that they could give us expansions with content? Are they THAT incompetent that they couldn't do this with the game they built on in the first place?
SOE knows what you like... You don't! And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Beatnik59, what I think hes refering to is things like quest and story driven chain missions, things like that. There wernt very many during Pre-cu, but I see your point very well. To an extent we didnt really need that stuff...their were mission terminals yea but the game relied heavily on player-made content, which I was involved with quite abit. My city on Talus awhile back had a little fued going on with a resident City, was called ZION or something, anyways the 2 Mayors of the city had a little staged battle and stuff and we played it off as ours getting assassinated (she was going to be away from the game for a few weeks) and it was preety fun stuff, thats the stuff that made the game.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by mindspat
Originally posted by pirrg Thats why it only had 300k regular subscribers, even with a name like Star Wars and the immense hype it recieved in beta.
There's nothing wrong with dreaming. It's when you forget you're awake that dreaming becomes a problem.
I have _NEVER_ seen a single piece of advertisement for Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided. I have no clue what the OP is refering to as "immense hype".
Lack of advertising: Lucas Arts fault. (It's Star Wars, everyone knows what it is so we don't have to tell them...)
Lack of Content and persistence bugs: Sony Online Entertainment's problem. (moto: Less is more)
Exactly right. Smed said in a launch interview that they were doing a "soft launch" and will rely on word-of-mough to drive the game. If they spent half what they did when they did the CU and nge advertizing campaigns (anyone see the pitiful infomercial? ) They'd have had a MUCH more successful game.
LOL!!! Yes I saw it at work one night in the break room, the guy that did the narriation is the same guy that does the RONCO Roticery (spelling) and that magnet twisting thing that pulls out dents in cars lol.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Originally posted by Beatnik59 The problem now is that twinkie quests are all that you have. There is no more richness. Perhaps you have more "quests" (and as far as I know, the term "quest" is not uttered in any of the Star Wars movies), but there is nothing to do really but quests, and I can't imagine that can last forever. They can't churn out the kind of content you want faster than you can consume it.
You being limited more by your attitude than by the changes to the game. There is just as much to do other than quests now as there was Pre-NGE, aside form those abilities specific to professions removed from the game.
The "richness" is still there, if a borked combat system all of the sudden causes you to ignore it, that's a different matter.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Originally posted by duggo Originally posted by Beatnik59 The problem now is that twinkie quests are all that you have. There is no more richness. Perhaps you have more "quests" (and as far as I know, the term "quest" is not uttered in any of the Star Wars movies), but there is nothing to do really but quests, and I can't imagine that can last forever. They can't churn out the kind of content you want faster than you can consume it.
You being limited more by your attitude than by the changes to the game. There is just as much to do other than quests now as there was Pre-NGE, aside form those abilities specific to professions removed from the game.
The "richness" is still there, if a borked combat system all of the sudden causes you to ignore it, that's a different matter.
-d
The borked combat system is the core of what is wrong with the nge. The additional content was ALWAYS welcome.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by pirrg Hey all, your favourite neighborhood pirrg here. This might be long so bare with me..
It may come as a surprise to many of you to learn that i used to play SWG pre-cu. The reason i quit was due to the utter lack of content in the game at the time and the fact that jedi could take on 10 people at once and emerge victorious without so much as a scratch. Back when killing baz-nitches (pre-nerf) and quenkers were the norm for xp grinding and when a gurcat was your best friend. When there really wasnt anything to do in the game besides grinding professions and decorating your house.
Back when publishes were few and far inbetween and when they did come, they were garbage. Back when everyone thought the "combat upgrade" would fix a broken game (mind you, it was still in concept back then).
Now, ill admit that SOME things were better back then. The 32 professions were better then the 9 we have now in a sense because the crafters general role in the game was better then it is now. The entertainers role in the game was better and the game was aimed at a larger audience. From mildly retarded lawn-care tool makers to 80 year old grandfathers and so on which offered some diversity ingame. But the negatives FAR outweigh the positives and lets face it, pre-cu was a negative experience for most people. Thats why it only had 300k regular subscribers, even with a name like Star Wars and the immense hype it recieved in beta.
I mean there was absolutely NO content! There were generic kill missions that randomly spawned at a point 1-2k from the terminal and two themeparks one could easily finish in a day or two. Other then that, the game was barren of any worthwile content. The only "content" was to grind new professions over and over or grind a jedi which never was an option for me and many others. Players creating their own content only goes so far, you cant base a game around it unless you give those players some proper tools to support their ideas.
The PvP was a travesty. First it was the pokemon wars where creature handlers ruled the pvp battlefield. Then it was the mindshot3-spam wars where all you did was run around (or stand still, didnt matter) and spam mindshot3. Going from that to the combat medic wars or the kd/dizzy spam wars or whatever the flavour of the month profession was, all you ended up with was everyone running around with the same template and weapons and armours spamming the same boring move over and over. Depending on what month it was, you never really noticed that the game had 32 professions because almost everyone was a bounty hunter or a TKA/Combat medic or a rifleman/doctor or what have you.
Im not happy that they cut down professions from 32 to 9 but i realize now that its something that HAD to be done. There were simply far too many combinations you could pick to make them all balanced against eachother.
Swg simply wasnt a fun game to play. You logged in and asked yourself, "ok.. now what?". And lets face it, your options were limited. You can only decorate your house so many times before it gets boring.
If letting go of 32 professions and making the game less accessible is the prize i have to pay for good publishes at regular intervalls and a general willingness from the developers to make SWG a better game, i pay it gladly.
Once they create subprofessions for each profession making them more diverse, the difference between pre-cu profession system and the NGE wont be all that great. Only way more balanced and more fun for everyone. But the difference in content is immense already. With two expansions smack-filled with content and a great space simulator, swg is better then ever, and once publish 30-32 hits this game will reclaim its rightful rule as the number one mmo out there.
Well for once a fanbois post that didn't involve leet speek or denigrating remarks. (Obraik notwithstanding, he's exempt from that count lol.) However, I think you should qualify your remarks it wasn't fun FOR YOU. Other people had a blast playing this game. Otherwise the subscriptions would not have bled the way they did with the original CU, and then flowing like a river with the NGE.
There is only content if your willing to cough up money for expansion packs, and even then thats' the only real way to level the way they want you to. (Remember they hated grinding, and allowed missions to give better xp only out of player demand.)
Also I think you are readily aware of how bad the devs are at following up. I hope your right that it will be a better game, but many of us have little desire to trust devs and a company who has lied time and time again, and say their game is not worth playing. (Until Smedley comes back out and says his game is playable again, I have no interest in considering resubbin.)
Originally posted by pirrg By improving i mean that its better then pre-cu ever was. Only a jedi ebay-merchant would fail to see that.
Anyway, whats the point, most of you didnt even read my post.
Like talking to a brick wall..
After insults like that you honestly wonder why? I never ebayed nor did I have jedi. Matter of fact I worked to eliminate ebaying at every chance I could. When a new Eclipse Jedi ebayed, I placed bounties on their heads to harass the living hell out of that jedi, make him sorry for ebaying.
Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by kasra then dont play MMO's go and play Battllefield or some other FPS game..
You crossed the line. The "love it or leave it" attitude needs to go, because your viewpoints are not only shallow and unimportant, they aren't even correct. There are lots of MMOs that don't fit your narrow definition of what a MMO should be.
Maybe SWG doesn't appeal to you, but it appeals to somebody. Don't try to wedge yourself in by forcing them out.
Tell that to Smedley who told former SWG players to love it or leave it. Yet you are one of Smedley's most ardent fanbois.
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Target lock and auto fire are the two things I hate about MMO's .
That is exatly what I like about MMOs at the moment. At least target lock. I want to relax, with occasional exciting moments, so I'm not looking for a player-skill-based game other than figuring out sequences of moves. I do not want to aim constantly, that sounds more like a chore than enjoyment.
I have seriously been into FPS in the past, so I understand that someone else would prefer that. I just don't enjoy the act of shooting things that much at the moment. I enjoy the queuing of skills, what can I say.
I just wish they could compromise somehow. NGE is all or nothing.
Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by kasra
then dont play MMO's go and play Battllefield or some other FPS game..
You crossed the line. The "love it or leave it" attitude needs to go, because your viewpoints are not only shallow and unimportant, they aren't even correct. There are lots of MMOs that don't fit your narrow definition of what a MMO should be.
Maybe SWG doesn't appeal to you, but it appeals to somebody. Don't try to wedge yourself in by forcing them out.
Squidi:
SWG is no longer an MMORPG -- and that is likely what Kasra meant. Please do not jump on something like this without due consideration which you seem to expect from everyone but fail to demonstrate yourself. An MMOFPS has a narrow definition and if SWG as an MMORPG wasn't to your liking, there are pleanty of MMOFPS such as Battlefield, etc that would fit your defintion. So, please don't tell us what an MMORPG should be. SWG as an MMOFPS simply doesn't work for the majory of people who played the game and have quit given Smedley's love it or leave answer to making the game profitable for SOE.
Originally posted by pirrg Hey all, your favourite neighborhood pirrg here. This might be long so bare with me..
PiRRRRRRRRRRG!
It may come as a surprise to many of you to learn that i used to play SWG pre-cu. The reason i quit was due to the utter lack of content in the game at the time and the fact that jedi could take on 10 people at once and emerge victorious without so much as a scratch.
That's exactly what I expected a Jedi to do. Actually, 10 ppl is too little, I was expecting some 20 masters to be murdered with a smile. Remeber, this was meant to be as close to the SW galaxy, its interdependent environment, like a society. A jedi is an uber fighter, and self-sufficient as well, therefore he/she has no place in this system of interdependence. He/she doesn't need it. Therefore, the game was not meant to be about the .000000000000000000000001% of the galactic population, the jedi. This game was never, ever, to be meant for the jedi. If it was, they were dilusional to think a class as a jedi could really ever be balanced. Imho, jedi were a freak variation of the norm. Only the very few select and dedicated people should ever have had the privilege to touch a jedi character. And yes, a jedi should walk around like a god. It might have been boring, but hey, the game was not meant to be played as a jedi anyways. Jedi were an extravagance, and yes, they were freaks, what did u expect?
Back when killing baz-nitches (pre-nerf) and quenkers were the norm for xp grinding and when a gurcat was your best friend. When there really wasnt anything to do in the game besides grinding professions and decorating your house.
yeah, the enjoyable stuff. That and making friends when going aimlessly hunting and exploring for hours on end with a tight group of interdependent professionals. Yup, I remember those days very well, and craving them badly.
Now, ill admit that SOME things were better back then. The 32 professions were better then the 9 we have now in a sense because the crafters general role in the game was better then it is now. The entertainers role in the game was better and the game was aimed at a larger audience. From mildly retarded lawn-care tool makers to 80 year old grandfathers and so on which offered some diversity ingame.
/applaud Pirrg
But the negatives FAR outweigh the positives and lets face it, pre-cu was a negative experience for most people.
speak for yourself Pirrg
Thats why it only had 300k regular subscribers, even with a name like Star Wars and the immense hype it recieved in beta.
The learning curve was the limiting factor imo. There were more commands that words in a dictionary ( do not hold that as a fact ). But then again, look at the huge number of different things that could be interacted with and how many interactions for each of those. It was a huge number of possibilities. Still, that could have been bypassed with better mouse interaction instead of such a stong dependance on command entry. Even so, it was weird only during the first week or so, beyond that, you'd get used to it imo)
I mean there was absolutely NO content!
that was never much of a problem for me. Again, I didn't play SWG to be "in the movies" I played SWG to live in the galaxy, even if I chose to just be a nuna-herder, hanging out with the random bone armored scout. I expected something similar to real-life, but in the SW universe. Many out there expected rebels and imperial stuff oozing off the walls. I never did.
There were generic kill missions that randomly spawned at a point 1-2k from the terminal and two themeparks one could easily finish in a day or two. Other then that, the game was barren of any worthwile content.
Agreed, some more of that would have been nice. But not to the point like it is in wow, where u're put on quest-rails. I think the 10 planets gave plenty of free-exploration possibilities. At least for a good 8-9 months. In my opinion, the 3 top planets should never have been soloable (well, only jedi perhaps), and should have contained rare resources only found there as an incentive to exploration.
The only "content" was to grind new professions over and over or grind a jedi which never was an option for me and many others.
You didn't have to grind them. I did mine calmly and enjoyably. Whenever I got done with them (bored, etc) I just started trying another one or something hybrid. The jedi grind did ruin it by introducing a goal and a method to this. I fell for that as well.
The PvP was a travesty.
Couldn't have cared less about it, but the little that I did was fun (in huge battles, no duels), but that game really was about the environment imho.
Im not happy that they cut down professions from 32 to 9 but i realize now that its something that HAD to be done. There were simply far too many combinations you could pick to make them all balanced against each other.
that measn the game got rushed and released before they had the time to consider and balance all the skills/professions. That in itself does not mean the game idea was impossible to function because they never took the time to really adjust things right.
Everytime they tried to fix or adjust anything, they'd do it in a crude, brute, and blunt way. Example: just about every profession revamp was meant to make a weak profession "awesome", instead of attempting to make it an average or normally functioning profession. I remember the chef revamp clearly. Chef sucked, the food was worthless. What did they do? instead of incrementally adjusting the modifiers patiently until the profession would balance out, they went ahead and introduced a bunch of "kick-ass" new foods that gave anyone under its effect a new-god-status. Everyone and their mom suddenly was learning chef.
The game was released unfinished and they tried really hard to unbalance it, truth be told.
Swg simply wasnt a fun game to play. You logged in and asked yourself, "ok.. now what?".
If someone landed you in the middle of a never before seen planet.... would you really need to ask that question? Try exploring, a lot of it.
If letting go of 32 professions and making the game less accessible is the prize i have to pay for good publishes at regular intervalls and a general willingness from the developers to make SWG a better game, i pay it gladly.
I understand what they intended with the profession collapse, though I emphasize that it was not the only way to go about it. What really is beyond understanding is the change in game combat mechanics. Why the need for the FPS-hybrid?
Once they create subprofessions for each profession making them more diverse, the difference between pre-cu profession system and the NGE wont be all that great. Only way more balanced and more fun for everyone.
Maybe, but by then there'll be other games out in the market doing it already. Really, how long will this take? It took them 2 years to develop the original SWG. You do realize they almost started from scracth again? Do you not mind going through 2 years of being a guinea pig? It's your money, and you're free to do it.
With the old system, broken as it was, at least it was already some progress done, though with quite a few errors and mistakes. If they really had tried it, with INCREMENTAL and almost unnoticeable changes along 3 years of its existance, the game would have progressed a lot by now.
Besides, if it doesn't offer the capability to combine multiple traits from different professions (sandbox), it's just like any other game. But the difference in content is immense already. With two expansions smack-filled with content and a great space simulator, swg is better then ever, and once publish 30-32 hits this game will reclaim its rightful rule as the number one mmo out there.
More content is definetely better in general, more things to do.
In the end , this all comes down to the following: SWG original was a huge game with tremendous variation in playerbase. It's clear to see that what I enjoyed in the game is what you found boring, and vice-versa. Not everyone can be made satisfied, I understand that. But to take drastic and traumatic measures, which so often brought forth even more serious and complicated unseen consequences, not to mention substituting the entire game core combat mechanism for another niche-oriented one, is horrible, horrible strategy on the part of SOE.
Not just that, but it's total disrespect to render useless so many things that people put their time and effort into.
I just want time to pass. One day, this will be just abandonware, and there'll be plenty of gamer-hosted servers, and people will finally have the time and the power to incrementally and smartly applly these minute balancing changes and approximate the initial vision of the game.
One day, this will be just abandonware, and there'll be plenty of gamer-hosted servers, and people will finally have the time and the power to incrementally and smartly applly these minute balancing changes and approximate the initial vision of the game.
I believe abandonware applies to products not available in stores for 7 or more years. So no sooner than 2014.
Originally posted by pirrg Hey all, your favourite neighborhood pirrg here. This might be long so bare with me..
It may come as a surprise to many of you to learn that i used to play SWG pre-cu. The reason i quit was due to the utter lack of content in the game at the time and the fact that jedi could take on 10 people at once and emerge victorious without so much as a scratch. Back when killing baz-nitches (pre-nerf) and quenkers were the norm for xp grinding and when a gurcat was your best friend. When there really wasnt anything to do in the game besides grinding professions and decorating your house.
Back when publishes were few and far inbetween and when they did come, they were garbage. Back when everyone thought the "combat upgrade" would fix a broken game (mind you, it was still in concept back then).
Now, ill admit that SOME things were better back then. The 32 professions were better then the 9 we have now in a sense because the crafters general role in the game was better then it is now. The entertainers role in the game was better and the game was aimed at a larger audience. From mildly retarded lawn-care tool makers to 80 year old grandfathers and so on which offered some diversity ingame. But the negatives FAR outweigh the positives and lets face it, pre-cu was a negative experience for most people. Thats why it only had 300k regular subscribers, even with a name like Star Wars and the immense hype it recieved in beta.
I mean there was absolutely NO content! There were generic kill missions that randomly spawned at a point 1-2k from the terminal and two themeparks one could easily finish in a day or two. Other then that, the game was barren of any worthwile content. The only "content" was to grind new professions over and over or grind a jedi which never was an option for me and many others. Players creating their own content only goes so far, you cant base a game around it unless you give those players some proper tools to support their ideas.
The PvP was a travesty. First it was the pokemon wars where creature handlers ruled the pvp battlefield. Then it was the mindshot3-spam wars where all you did was run around (or stand still, didnt matter) and spam mindshot3. Going from that to the combat medic wars or the kd/dizzy spam wars or whatever the flavour of the month profession was, all you ended up with was everyone running around with the same template and weapons and armours spamming the same boring move over and over. Depending on what month it was, you never really noticed that the game had 32 professions because almost everyone was a bounty hunter or a TKA/Combat medic or a rifleman/doctor or what have you.
Im not happy that they cut down professions from 32 to 9 but i realize now that its something that HAD to be done. There were simply far too many combinations you could pick to make them all balanced against eachother.
Swg simply wasnt a fun game to play. You logged in and asked yourself, "ok.. now what?". And lets face it, your options were limited. You can only decorate your house so many times before it gets boring.
If letting go of 32 professions and making the game less accessible is the prize i have to pay for good publishes at regular intervalls and a general willingness from the developers to make SWG a better game, i pay it gladly.
Once they create subprofessions for each profession making them more diverse, the difference between pre-cu profession system and the NGE wont be all that great. Only way more balanced and more fun for everyone. But the difference in content is immense already. With two expansions smack-filled with content and a great space simulator, swg is better then ever, and once publish 30-32 hits this game will reclaim its rightful rule as the number one mmo out there.
i disagree with everything your saying pretty much ...
why when other mmorpg's have so many races/classes and such detailed character customization ... does SWG have to have so few proffessions? such little ability to customize your character during the creation process? and then such horrible proffessions?
the proffessions are horrible ... horrible to play, they dont really feel set apart from each other ... when i close my eyes, i dont see variety just that red crosshair FPS BS, which reminds be of a 4 bit atari game battle tank...
the game sucks ... why would i play a game where i can only select out of 9 proffessions which all suck? and then play with its cheesy FPS style anyway? if your gonna make a game FPS .. by all means MAKE IT FPS .. make it hardcore .. not this 4-bit atari styled archaic junk ...and the specials are just play G@Y sorry to say they look ridiculous ... they have these out of high school kids now programming the game or something and put in the effects where they arent needed an in a ridiculous fashion, and then havent put the effects in the game where they are needed ...
content? content for what? broken items? useless items? untradable items?
crafting? what crafting? you mean junk collecting? noob equipping?
dude the pre-cu OWNED the current state of this game .. me myself i was a fan of the CU .. but this NGE just plain sucks ... expansions? you mean the expansions i already mastered? the expansions i freaking paid 30 bucks for?
dude this game sucks ... the content in this game sucks, its just BORING ...
i honestly wish you people would just LET THIS GAME DIE SO WE CAN GET A SWG 2 AND HAVE A REAL GAME >> AN AWSOME GAME >> WHY KEEP THIS PIECE OF SHIT ON LIFE SUPPORT!!!!!
Originally posted by Rekrul Originally posted by britoca
One day, this will be just abandonware, and there'll be plenty of gamer-hosted servers, and people will finally have the time and the power to incrementally and smartly applly these minute balancing changes and approximate the initial vision of the game.
I believe abandonware applies to products not available in stores for 7 or more years. So no sooner than 2014.
from wikipedia (not that I'd ever bet my life on anything stated there but...):
"Abandonware is computer software which is no longer being sold or supported by its copyright holder. Sometimes, it is used as a blanket category for any software over a certain age, usually five years.
Originally posted by britoca Originally posted by Rekrul
Originally posted by britoca
One day, this will be just abandonware, and there'll be plenty of gamer-hosted servers, and people will finally have the time and the power to incrementally and smartly applly these minute balancing changes and approximate the initial vision of the game.
I believe abandonware applies to products not available in stores for 7 or more years. So no sooner than 2014.
from wikipedia (not that I'd ever bet my life on anything stated there but...):
"Abandonware is computer software which is no longer being sold or supported by its copyright holder. Sometimes, it is used as a blanket category for any software over a certain age, usually five years.
The term has no legal meaning."
So, 2011-2012?
In whatever form, if won't look good then. And besides, that's a long time.
Originally posted by britoca Originally posted by pirrg Hey all, your favourite neighborhood pirrg here. This might be long so bare with me..
PiRRRRRRRRRRG!
Dan is that you?
Um, anyway, thanks for answering each paragraph in my post mate. Alright, on to business.. It may come as a surprise to many of you to learn that i used to play SWG pre-cu. The reason i quit was due to the utter lack of content in the game at the time and the fact that jedi could take on 10 people at once and emerge victorious without so much as a scratch.
That's exactly what I expected a Jedi to do. Actually, 10 ppl is too little, I was expecting some 20 masters to be murdered with a smile. Remeber, this was meant to be as close to the SW galaxy, its interdependent environment, like a society. A jedi is an uber fighter, and self-sufficient as well, therefore he/she has no place in this system of interdependence. He/she doesn't need it. Therefore, the game was not meant to be about the .000000000000000000000001% of the galactic population, the jedi. This game was never, ever, to be meant for the jedi. If it was, they were dilusional to think a class as a jedi could really ever be balanced. Imho, jedi were a freak variation of the norm. Only the very few select and dedicated people should ever have had the privilege to touch a jedi character. And yes, a jedi should walk around like a god. It might have been boring, but hey, the game was not meant to be played as a jedi anyways. Jedi were an extravagance, and yes, they were freaks, what did u expect?
If you remember, there was a very short period in SWG's existance when the Jedi system worked perfectly. Extreme risk versus extreme reward. If you wanted to play an overpowered character you had to live with the consequences of your mistakes, which in this case were quite severe. With Saber TEF and permanent death, it was a flawless system. Unfortunately egotistical whining from simpletons that couldnt see the bigger picture sufficed and SOE decided to change that formula, making jedi an easy class to play yet still extremely powerful. This was the beginning of the end for swg as you knew it. Ofcourse most people failed or just didnt care to see that. Back when killing baz-nitches (pre-nerf) and quenkers were the norm for xp grinding and when a gurcat was your best friend. When there really wasnt anything to do in the game besides grinding professions and decorating your house.
yeah, the enjoyable stuff. That and making friends when going aimlessly hunting and exploring for hours on end with a tight group of interdependent professionals. Yup, I remember those days very well, and craving them badly.
Enjoyable to you perhaps, but a repetitive grind for me. Sure it was fun to run around with your buddies and make camps inbetween piket lairs, but the novelty wore off pretty fast for me. Now, ill admit that SOME things were better back then. The 32 professions were better then the 9 we have now in a sense because the crafters general role in the game was better then it is now. The entertainers role in the game was better and the game was aimed at a larger audience. From mildly retarded lawn-care tool makers to 80 year old grandfathers and so on which offered some diversity ingame.
/applaud Pirrg
/poke britoca But the negatives FAR outweigh the positives and lets face it, pre-cu was a negative experience for most people.
speak for yourself Pirrg
Thats why it only had 300k regular subscribers, even with a name like Star Wars and the immense hype it recieved in beta.
The learning curve was the limiting factor imo. There were more commands that words in a dictionary ( do not hold that as a fact ). But then again, look at the huge number of different things that could be interacted with and how many interactions for each of those. It was a huge number of possibilities. Still, that could have been bypassed with better mouse interaction instead of such a stong dependance on command entry. Even so, it was weird only during the first week or so, beyond that, you'd get used to it imo)
I dont understand why people claim the learning curve was steep. I was only 16 years old when i started swg and i had absolutely no problems with it. There wasnt that much to learn for a new player, you kind of learned as you went along. Compared to eve its like a picture book versus a book on quantum physics. I mean there was absolutely NO content!
that was never much of a problem for me. Again, I didn't play SWG to be "in the movies" I played SWG to live in the galaxy, even if I chose to just be a nuna-herder, hanging out with the random bone armored scout. I expected something similar to real-life, but in the SW universe. Many out there expected rebels and imperial stuff oozing off the walls. I never did.
It wasnt a problem for me either, but not for very long. The initial novelty wore off after about a month for me, after that i just stuck with the game because it was star wars and because my buddies played it. I think the problem with swg's subscription ammount stems from the fact that "many out there" as you say expected ALOT more from swg. There were generic kill missions that randomly spawned at a point 1-2k from the terminal and two themeparks one could easily finish in a day or two. Other then that, the game was barren of any worthwile content.
Agreed, some more of that would have been nice. But not to the point like it is in wow, where u're put on quest-rails. I think the 10 planets gave plenty of free-exploration possibilities. At least for a good 8-9 months. In my opinion, the 3 top planets should never have been soloable (well, only jedi perhaps), and should have contained rare resources only found there as an incentive to exploration.
This is another one i see alot. Explore? Explore what exactly mate? The swg universe consisted of randomly generated squares of terrain with randomly inserted points of interests and the occasional empty cave here and there. You can only visit generic landmarks so many times before it gets boring. The only "content" was to grind new professions over and over or grind a jedi which never was an option for me and many others.
You didn't have to grind them. I did mine calmly and enjoyably. Whenever I got done with them (bored, etc) I just started trying another one or something hybrid. The jedi grind did ruin it by introducing a goal and a method to this. I fell for that as well.
Well, for me doing something repetitive is grinding. Exterminating the local fauna to master your profession over and over sounds like a grind to me. The PvP was a travesty.
Couldn't have cared less about it, but the little that I did was fun (in huge battles, no duels), but that game really was about the environment imho.
Well alot of players did care, and most of them were extremely unhappy with the state of SWG's pvp. For me, the game was about the factional warfare and that warfare existed for a while until jedi and flavour of the month templates destroyed it. Im not happy that they cut down professions from 32 to 9 but i realize now that its something that HAD to be done. There were simply far too many combinations you could pick to make them all balanced against each other.
that measn the game got rushed and released before they had the time to consider and balance all the skills/professions. That in itself does not mean the game idea was impossible to function because they never took the time to really adjust things right.
Everytime they tried to fix or adjust anything, they'd do it in a crude, brute, and blunt way. Example: just about every profession revamp was meant to make a weak profession "awesome", instead of attempting to make it an average or normally functioning profession. I remember the chef revamp clearly. Chef sucked, the food was worthless. What did they do? instead of incrementally adjusting the modifiers patiently until the profession would balance out, they went ahead and introduced a bunch of "kick-ass" new foods that gave anyone under its effect a new-god-status. Everyone and their mom suddenly was learning chef.
The game was released unfinished and they tried really hard to unbalance it, truth be told.
I couldnt agree more on this point. If i remember correctly back in beta the overwhelming majority of beta testers begged the team not to release the game. Unfortunately there was an enormous horde of people on the other side of the fence that were determained to play the game at any cost. SOE rushed it, plain and simple. SWG remains one of the most unfinished games released to the public save for "seed" perhaps. Swg simply wasnt a fun game to play. You logged in and asked yourself, "ok.. now what?".
If someone landed you in the middle of a never before seen planet.... would you really need to ask that question? Try exploring, a lot of it.
Exploring empty and randomly generated terrain and points of interests that are marked on the freakin map just isnt my thing mind you. Maybe if there was a real game world to explore like there is in World of Warcraft i would have been more interested.
If letting go of 32 professions and making the game less accessible is the prize i have to pay for good publishes at regular intervalls and a general willingness from the developers to make SWG a better game, i pay it gladly.
I understand what they intended with the profession collapse, though I emphasize that it was not the only way to go about it. What really is beyond understanding is the change in game combat mechanics. Why the need for the FPS-hybrid?
I cant answer that, either system works for me to be honest. I just hated the one-ability spam you saw in every profession. At least now you have to use more then one or two abilities to win a fight. Once they create subprofessions for each profession making them more diverse, the difference between pre-cu profession system and the NGE wont be all that great. Only way more balanced and more fun for everyone.
Maybe, but by then there'll be other games out in the market doing it already. Really, how long will this take? It took them 2 years to develop the original SWG. You do realize they almost started from scracth again? Do you not mind going through 2 years of being a guinea pig? It's your money, and you're free to do it.
With the old system, broken as it was, at least it was already some progress done, though with quite a few errors and mistakes. If they really had tried it, with INCREMENTAL and almost unnoticeable changes along 3 years of its existance, the game would have progressed a lot by now.
Besides, if it doesn't offer the capability to combine multiple traits from different professions (sandbox), it's just like any other game. The developers have made some poor choices througout the years but in my opinion, they are making amends. The progress done on the old system was minimal at best, and altough there will be a throng of new games on the market by the time that SWG reaches perfection, they wont be Star wars. There is one star wars mmo and im sticking with it.
But the difference in content is immense already. With two expansions smack-filled with content and a great space simulator, swg is better then ever, and once publish 30-32 hits this game will reclaim its rightful rule as the number one mmo out there.
More content is definetely better in general, more things to do.
Agreed, and you cant say they arent trying. I have never seen so much activity by the developers in swg as i am seeing now. That can only be a good thing.
In the end , this all comes down to the following: SWG original was a huge game with tremendous variation in playerbase. It's clear to see that what I enjoyed in the game is what you found boring, and vice-versa. Not everyone can be made satisfied, I understand that. But to take drastic and traumatic measures, which so often brought forth even more serious and complicated unseen consequences, not to mention substituting the entire game core combat mechanism for another niche-oriented one, is horrible, horrible strategy on the part of SOE.
Not just that, but it's total disrespect to render useless so many things that people put their time and effort into.
I just want time to pass. One day, this will be just abandonware, and there'll be plenty of gamer-hosted servers, and people will finally have the time and the power to incrementally and smartly applly these minute balancing changes and approximate the initial vision of the game.
It seems that ALOT of the complaints are aimed at the combat mechanics, and even now SOE are making it easier to target your foe. Its called compromising mate. Alot of players love this new mechanic and i understand that alot of players absolutely hate it. The key is to meet somewhere at the middle and not camp at one end of the extreme like most people on this forum are doing. And on your last paragraph, we can only dream. I strongly believe that swg could be the best mmo ever in the hands of dedicated players.
thats it for me, im off to bed
_____________________ I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
Comments
There's nothing wrong with dreaming. It's when you forget you're awake that dreaming becomes a problem.
I have _NEVER_ seen a single piece of advertisement for Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided. I have no clue what the OP is refering to as "immense hype".
Lack of advertising: Lucas Arts fault. (It's Star Wars, everyone knows what it is so we don't have to tell them...)
Lack of Content and persistence bugs: Sony Online Entertainment's problem. (moto: Less is more)
You forget, Star Wars fans are illiterate and have attention spans of about 6 seconds; which happens to be the average length of engagement in SWG.
There's been SO much removed from SWG that SOE will need another 2 years to implement content to make SWG "better then pre-cu ever was".
Also keep in mind that SOE hires their developers fresh out of college with no experiance for 6 months then cans them. Well, they just refuse to renew their contracts. This business model is the problem why SWG has become a terrible game in comparison to pre-cu.
Then also I have to wonder exactly why the OP wanted to explain all of this to us?
As far as I am concerned, I'll give SOE all the time they need. The fact is, it doesn't cost me a thing to give them time. I am cancelled, and I ain't coming back to what it is now.
But if the OP wants us all to pile in SWG, just because his crystal ball says the game will get better at some undisclosed point in the future, I say that is pretty dumb. Its much better I believe to play something that is finished, and already pretty good, than this thing that has yet to restabilize itself.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
There's nothing wrong with dreaming. It's when you forget you're awake that dreaming becomes a problem.
I have _NEVER_ seen a single piece of advertisement for Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided. I have no clue what the OP is refering to as "immense hype".
Lack of advertising: Lucas Arts fault. (It's Star Wars, everyone knows what it is so we don't have to tell them...)
Lack of Content and persistence bugs: Sony Online Entertainment's problem. (moto: Less is more)
Exactly right. Smed said in a launch interview that they were doing a "soft launch" and will rely on word-of-mough to drive the game. If they spent half what they did when they did the CU and nge advertizing campaigns (anyone see the pitiful infomercial?
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
All the wrong things? The stuff i mentioned basically defines what pre-cu was. I never played during the CU but with the NGE, at least we have better profession balance and no overpowered alpha-class running around. And there is WAY more content in the game right now. Not to mention that the pvp has never been better.
Yes, all you say is only the bad things that pre-cu had, it doesn't define pre-cu. Because, by your reasoning, we would then have to define NGE as "one big pile of bugs" and it's be as much of a truth as your statement.
And profession balance? Well... That's a hot topic and I won't get into it much, since it has a lot to do with opinions and personal playstyle. But my opinion is that "balance" is a fool's dream, that when everyone is special, no one really is!
And "way more content"? You mean those "two expansions smack-filled with content and a great space simulator"???? Other than the fact that the code for the expansions were built on the code of the "revamps", what does it have to do with the issue? Are you trying to tell me that they HAD to make the CU and the NGE so that they could give us expansions with content? Are they THAT incompetent that they couldn't do this with the game they built on in the first place?
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
There's nothing wrong with dreaming. It's when you forget you're awake that dreaming becomes a problem.
I have _NEVER_ seen a single piece of advertisement for Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided. I have no clue what the OP is refering to as "immense hype".
Lack of advertising: Lucas Arts fault. (It's Star Wars, everyone knows what it is so we don't have to tell them...)
Lack of Content and persistence bugs: Sony Online Entertainment's problem. (moto: Less is more)
Exactly right. Smed said in a launch interview that they were doing a "soft launch" and will rely on word-of-mough to drive the game. If they spent half what they did when they did the CU and nge advertizing campaigns (anyone see the pitiful infomercial?
LOL!!! Yes I saw it at work one night in the break room, the guy that did the narriation is the same guy that does the RONCO Roticery (spelling) and that magnet twisting thing that pulls out dents in cars lol.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
You being limited more by your attitude than by the changes to the game. There is just as much to do other than quests now as there was Pre-NGE, aside form those abilities specific to professions removed from the game.
The "richness" is still there, if a borked combat system all of the sudden causes you to ignore it, that's a different matter.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
fanboi
You being limited more by your attitude than by the changes to the game. There is just as much to do other than quests now as there was Pre-NGE, aside form those abilities specific to professions removed from the game.
The "richness" is still there, if a borked combat system all of the sudden causes you to ignore it, that's a different matter.
-d
The borked combat system is the core of what is wrong with the nge. The additional content was ALWAYS welcome.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Well for once a fanbois post that didn't involve leet speek or denigrating remarks. (Obraik notwithstanding, he's exempt from that count lol.) However, I think you should qualify your remarks it wasn't fun FOR YOU. Other people had a blast playing this game. Otherwise the subscriptions would not have bled the way they did with the original CU, and then flowing like a river with the NGE.
There is only content if your willing to cough up money for expansion packs, and even then thats' the only real way to level the way they want you to. (Remember they hated grinding, and allowed missions to give better xp only out of player demand.)
Also I think you are readily aware of how bad the devs are at following up. I hope your right that it will be a better game, but many of us have little desire to trust devs and a company who has lied time and time again, and say their game is not worth playing. (Until Smedley comes back out and says his game is playable again, I have no interest in considering resubbin.)
Maybe SWG doesn't appeal to you, but it appeals to somebody. Don't try to wedge yourself in by forcing them out.
Tell that to Smedley who told former SWG players to love it or leave it. Yet you are one of Smedley's most ardent fanbois.
I have seriously been into FPS in the past, so I understand that someone else would prefer that. I just don't enjoy the act of shooting things that much at the moment. I enjoy the queuing of skills, what can I say.
I just wish they could compromise somehow. NGE is all or nothing.
-virtual tourist
want your game back?
Maybe SWG doesn't appeal to you, but it appeals to somebody. Don't try to wedge yourself in by forcing them out.
Squidi:
SWG is no longer an MMORPG -- and that is likely what Kasra meant. Please do not jump on something like this without due consideration which you seem to expect from everyone but fail to demonstrate yourself. An MMOFPS has a narrow definition and if SWG as an MMORPG wasn't to your liking, there are pleanty of MMOFPS such as Battlefield, etc that would fit your defintion. So, please don't tell us what an MMORPG should be. SWG as an MMOFPS simply doesn't work for the majory of people who played the game and have quit given Smedley's love it or leave answer to making the game profitable for SOE.
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Not just that, but it's total disrespect to render useless so many things that people put their time and effort into.
I just want time to pass. One day, this will be just abandonware, and there'll be plenty of gamer-hosted servers, and people will finally have the time and the power to incrementally and smartly applly these minute balancing changes and approximate the initial vision of the game.
-virtual tourist
want your game back?
I believe abandonware applies to products not available in stores for 7 or more years. So no sooner than 2014.
i disagree with everything your saying pretty much ...
why when other mmorpg's have so many races/classes and such detailed character customization ... does SWG have to have so few proffessions? such little ability to customize your character during the creation process? and then such horrible proffessions?
the proffessions are horrible ... horrible to play, they dont really feel set apart from each other ... when i close my eyes, i dont see variety just that red crosshair FPS BS, which reminds be of a 4 bit atari game battle tank...
the game sucks ... why would i play a game where i can only select out of 9 proffessions which all suck? and then play with its cheesy FPS style anyway? if your gonna make a game FPS .. by all means MAKE IT FPS .. make it hardcore .. not this 4-bit atari styled archaic junk ...and the specials are just play G@Y sorry to say they look ridiculous ... they have these out of high school kids now programming the game or something and put in the effects where they arent needed an in a ridiculous fashion, and then havent put the effects in the game where they are needed ...
content? content for what? broken items? useless items? untradable items?
crafting? what crafting? you mean junk collecting? noob equipping?
dude the pre-cu OWNED the current state of this game .. me myself i was a fan of the CU .. but this NGE just plain sucks ... expansions? you mean the expansions i already mastered? the expansions i freaking paid 30 bucks for?
dude this game sucks ... the content in this game sucks, its just BORING ...
i honestly wish you people would just LET THIS GAME DIE SO WE CAN GET A SWG 2 AND HAVE A REAL GAME >> AN AWSOME GAME >> WHY KEEP THIS PIECE OF SHIT ON LIFE SUPPORT!!!!!
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
I believe abandonware applies to products not available in stores for 7 or more years. So no sooner than 2014.
from wikipedia (not that I'd ever bet my life on anything stated there but...):
"Abandonware is computer software which is no longer being sold or supported by its copyright holder. Sometimes, it is used as a blanket category for any software over a certain age, usually five years.
The term has no legal meaning."-virtual tourist
want your game back?
That's your opinion.
I happen to think your full of it, but that's MY opinion.
Shouldn't you and squidi be off posting more SOE propaganda on other boards?
One day, this will be just abandonware, and there'll be plenty of gamer-hosted servers, and people will finally have the time and the power to incrementally and smartly applly these minute balancing changes and approximate the initial vision of the game.
I believe abandonware applies to products not available in stores for 7 or more years. So no sooner than 2014.
from wikipedia (not that I'd ever bet my life on anything stated there but...):
"Abandonware is computer software which is no longer being sold or supported by its copyright holder. Sometimes, it is used as a blanket category for any software over a certain age, usually five years.
The term has no legal meaning."So, 2011-2012?
In whatever form, if won't look good then. And besides, that's a long time.
Not just that, but it's total disrespect to render useless so many things that people put their time and effort into.
I just want time to pass. One day, this will be just abandonware, and there'll be plenty of gamer-hosted servers, and people will finally have the time and the power to incrementally and smartly applly these minute balancing changes and approximate the initial vision of the game.
It seems that ALOT of the complaints are aimed at the combat mechanics, and even now SOE are making it easier to target your foe. Its called compromising mate. Alot of players love this new mechanic and i understand that alot of players absolutely hate it. The key is to meet somewhere at the middle and not camp at one end of the extreme like most people on this forum are doing. And on your last paragraph, we can only dream. I strongly believe that swg could be the best mmo ever in the hands of dedicated players.
thats it for me, im off to bed
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.