Originally posted by viadi how about 3 years 3 revamps 30 publishes is that time enough?
3 years? The NGE has only been out for 6 or so months. Since then we have seen some of the best publishes in SWG history. I'd say thats a definite improvement.
_____________________ I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
Originally posted by pirrg Originally posted by viadi how about 3 years 3 revamps 30 publishes is that time enough?
3 years? The NGE has only been out for 6 or so months. Since then we have seen some of the best publishes in SWG history. I'd say thats a definite improvement.
Trying to stir the pot are we? I'd say you seen the most incompelete and buggy re-release of pre-CU, pre-NGE features in SWG history. And the game is not improving with these publishes. The group XP change on TC, for example, is being severly criticized on the SOE forums. The NGE, I would also remind you, was never billded as new game as you imply above. The NGE was one of the worest adons in SWG or RPG history period. It was buggy, it was incomplete and now we are struck with a rift of publishes by SOE that simply continue down a poorly designed path.
Originally posted by pirrg By improving i mean that its better then pre-cu ever was. Only a jedi ebay-merchant would fail to see that.
Anyway, whats the point, most of you didnt even read my post.
Like talking to a brick wall..
On the contrary I was so excited to actually read something from you that didn't consist of "piss off pre cu Jedi Dog SWG is now uber!" that I read the entire thing. Now that we know you are capable of reason and coherent thought when it comes to arguments we expect more of it from now on!
The combat system did need some tweaking, but it was not fundamentally flawd. The lack of content and what you had to do to get XP had nothing to do with the combat system of the day it had to do with lazy ass SOE devs not doing there job. Just think of the massive amounts of content we would have today if those idiots wouldn't start from scratch every six months with a new combat system.
Originally posted by pirrg Originally posted by viadi how about 3 years 3 revamps 30 publishes is that time enough?
3 years? The NGE has only been out for 6 or so months. Since then we have seen some of the best publishes in SWG history. I'd say thats a definite improvement.
What exactly were the publishes, I must have missed them.
Bounty hunting? Heavy weapons? Sitting on chairs fix? The /pvp command? Legacy quest bugfixes? Removal of mind bar?
Originally posted by Rekrul Originally posted by pirrg Originally posted by viadi how about 3 years 3 revamps 30 publishes is that time enough?
3 years? The NGE has only been out for 6 or so months. Since then we have seen some of the best publishes in SWG history. I'd say thats a definite improvement.
What exactly were the publishes, I must have missed them.
Bounty hunting? Heavy weapons? Sitting on chairs fix? The /pvp command? Legacy quest bugfixes? Removal of mind bar?
Seriously, what were these great publishes?
um.. everything you mentioned in that post.
_____________________ I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
Originally posted by pirrg Originally posted by Rekrul Originally posted by pirrg Originally posted by viadi how about 3 years 3 revamps 30 publishes is that time enough?
3 years? The NGE has only been out for 6 or so months. Since then we have seen some of the best publishes in SWG history. I'd say thats a definite improvement.
What exactly were the publishes, I must have missed them.
Bounty hunting? Heavy weapons? Sitting on chairs fix? The /pvp command? Legacy quest bugfixes? Removal of mind bar?
Seriously, what were these great publishes?
um.. everything you mentioned in that post.
Why exactly are these the best publishes ever?
Let's look at pub 12. - no /pvp, want to attack, just do it, that's what TEFs are for - Bounty hunters - all the way - Sitting on chairs - check - Heavy weapons - check - Mind bar - works
- Legacy quest - nope
So basically, Legacy quest is the greatest thing in history of SWG, and the culmination of their work in 6 months? Ok. Guess this is where the difference of opinions on the state of SWG comes from.
Originally posted by pirrg Originally posted by Rekrul Originally posted by pirrg Originally posted by viadi how about 3 years 3 revamps 30 publishes is that time enough?
3 years? The NGE has only been out for 6 or so months. Since then we have seen some of the best publishes in SWG history. I'd say thats a definite improvement.
What exactly were the publishes, I must have missed them.
Bounty hunting? Heavy weapons? Sitting on chairs fix? The /pvp command? Legacy quest bugfixes? Removal of mind bar?
Seriously, what were these great publishes?
um.. everything you mentioned in that post.
And in your own words pirrg, what is so great about those publishes?
Originally posted by viadi how about 3 years 3 revamps 30 publishes is that time enough?
let me explain what I ment shall I.
your title of the post is SWG is improving, just give it some time not the NGE is getting better, and whats more by your own admission many things were better back then (Pre-CU).
The point is if after all that SOE have done to "inprove" the game they only made it worse. after 3 years can anyone say: ok maybenextpublish and the game will be done, i really dont think its possible, moreover anyone that does is crazy. because after 3 revamps 30 publishes (all of it done with broken and buggy code) SWG has been left all but unplayable. they is very little in the game you can do that does not has some kind of bug involved so will the next publish/revamp clear up the buggs and make the game playable?
NO WAY ON THIS EARTH (but id like it if I was wrong)
Next point, the NGE was not even ready for alpha testing so any fixes on that score will make the game seem more playable but that does not stop the NGE being bad design. and not worth my hard earned cash while your opinion of the game is getting better is a vailid one my opinion is 3 years 3 revamps 30 publishes and still we are in bata.
I saw an MTV video this week with four game developers who were interviewed at E3. I can't recall all their names, but the point is, the topic of sandbox freedom for the player vs. guided hand held step by step play was discussed.
The Gods of War guy just hated the sandbox approach and said he was faced with all this open choice and he just didn't know what to do. The other guys, Will Wright (Sims) and my favorite guy (who loved sandbox and mentioned proudly being a level 40 in Oblivion and having all the houses) really liked for themselves and the player setting up an environment where you have all these choices and the real fun is, seeing what the player does with them.
The killer with Galaxies is, the game was written with incredible freedom for the player to interact with the world and each other, then one day, somebody came along, shoved all the sand into a shoebox and said-here's your new game, you'll like this much better. If you don't like it, find a new shoebox.
They needed to leave the sandbox elements as they were and add in shoebox elements for the confused, but noooo. This is why they fail.
first, pirrg, your nose is browner than an brownie that's gone through the digestion system and ends up in the toilet. Immature, I know but it felt good.
Sandbox concept requires the players to use their imagination and actually do some thinking. I guess that was too hard for some people do deal with. The statement about facing an open choice and don't know what to do, is just pathetic. Plain and simple. People like this wants to play some mindnumbing handholding games that leaves the player no freedom in gameplay. Sorta like the NGE.
******************************** SWG pre cu - never forgotten.
Originally posted by Obraik Have to say, this is a decent thread, has some interesting discussion in it Helped me pass the time while waiting for a factory to finish Just one question Pirrg, are you Australian?
how are you and yours obraik (after the earthquake) i hope everthing is ok, and yes im a few weeks late but its good to know atleast you alive
Originally posted by viadi Originally posted by Obraik Have to say, this is a decent thread, has some interesting discussion in it Helped me pass the time while waiting for a factory to finish Just one question Pirrg, are you Australian?
how are you and yours obraik (after the earthquake) i hope everthing is ok, and yes im a few weeks late but its good to know atleast you alive
Luckily the quake was pretty deep down so very few noticed it (including myself lol). It was also further North from where I am.
Thanks for the concern! Now, back to SWG discussion
The eternal sandbox mystery for SWG is, why why why did they never start writing quests that anyone could do, regardless of profession to the original game?
Why did they drop the popular Cries of Alderan story arc? Why not finish that, expand that, add more things like it?
Why did they build the "theme" parks and drop those story lines?
Why didn't they add more stories for Jabba's Palace, another popular place? It seems to me there was a huge thread with ideas for adding story content specifically for Jabba's Palace. And yes, I played through the Legacy Quest Jabba's Palace storyline and it was awful, just awful.
Now they sit with all those planets, all that possibility for content and story and depth and they sit and draw new Jedi robes and animations all day long, and tweak bounty hunter abilities, and knock their heads against the wall wondering how to get that danged combat just right.
No question at all if they had built, however slowly, upon the base sandbox game they started with they would have many many more players than they have now. They had so much to offer all in one wonderful place what people keep looking for in bits and pieces elsewhere.
They spent too much time making expansions, and then reinventing the wheel imho...
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
If SOE wants to show good faith, and that they're serious about improving their game, there's an easy way to do it. They've been screwing their customers for years, and I think it'd be easy enough to make amends.
MAKE SWG FREE, UNTIL THEY FEEL THAT THEIR CUSTOMER BASE WOULD BE WILLING TO PAY FOR THE 'COMPLETE' GAME
Seriously, what better wat to show good faith other than to admit your product 'isn't where it should be' yet. Put it back into a development stage, an open beta stage if you will.
Would they lose money, absolutely, but maybe by attempting to show their customers that they weren't such scum, people would be more willing to give that game one final chance.
Besides, how long has SOE been screwing customers out of money now, 4 years or so.../ I think they deserve to pay some of that back.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
then dont play MMO's go and play Battllefield or some other FPS game..
Welllll... wait a bit, and he will have the option of playing Huxley or Fallen Earth . And maybe meet me there Actually I would recommend Neocron if the programming quality was better. A nice try to unify FPS and MMOS, unfortunately it falls short on the technical side. Otherwise I would still play it myself.
Originally posted by viadi Originally posted by viadi how about 3 years 3 revamps 30 publishes is that time enough?
let me explain what I ment shall I.
your title of the post is SWG is improving, just give it some time not the NGE is getting better, and whats more by your own admission many things were better back then (Pre-CU).
Well, the NGE is SWG and vice versa. As far as im concerned swg has only existed for 6 months. There is no point in crying over spilled milk.
And yes, i said better in a SENSE. Better because they offered way more diversity but at the same time, worse because the very same diversity messed up the game balance.
The point is if after all that SOE have done to "inprove" the game they only made it worse. after 3 years can anyone say: ok maybenextpublish and the game will be done, i really dont think its possible, moreover anyone that does is crazy. because after 3 revamps 30 publishes (all of it done with broken and buggy code) SWG has been left all but unplayable. they is very little in the game you can do that does not has some kind of bug involved so will the next publish/revamp clear up the buggs and make the game playable?
Bugs can be squashed, and seriously buddy its NOT that buggy anymore. I know what you mean with "ok maybenextpublish and the game will be done". Its exactly how i used to feel pre-cu when they announced a miracle publish that was still 6 months away. You cant possible compare what we had then with what we have now though. Nowadays we get plenty of quality publishes. Infact each publish since the NGE hit has been better then ANY given publish before the NGE. NO WAY ON THIS EARTH (but id like it if I was wrong) Next point, the NGE was not even ready for alpha testing so any fixes on that score will make the game seem more playable but that does not stop the NGE being bad design. and not worth my hard earned cash while your opinion of the game is getting better is a vailid one my opinion is 3 years 3 revamps 30 publishes and still we are in bata. Sure the game needs some improvement, but i wouldnt go so far as to say that its still in beta. SWG today is more complete then it has ever been if you look at the game balance, content and fun faction. But thats just my opinion.
i was going to edit spelling but... I'm not To everyone else that has replied, my online time is fairly limited so i cant reply to everyone all in one go, and no obraik im not australian mate
_____________________ I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by DuraheLL OH IT'S IMPROOVING IS IT??? Good-Rate pre-CU: 80/100
Post-NGE: 9/100
And today: 12/100
AND YOU SAY IT'S IMPROOVING ?!?!?!? It's like breaking your spine getting immobilized in your entire body then when you all of a sudden get able to control YOUR LEFT TOE you go "Well I feel alot better now!!"
Technically, that would be true, now wouldn't it? I mean, if you broke your spine then there would be a huge chance of paralysis. The fact that you can move your left toe at all is a blessing of no small matter. It might require years of therapy and struggle, but you could walk again. That's pretty damn much an improvement if you ask me.
I think that's something both sides can agree on. "SWG: Now better then complete paralysis!"
That has to be the weirdest comparison I've seen on this yet.
Comments
Tin Foil hats dont work.. its all a conspiracy
Question is, what's the price of Faith? Apparantly, just an IP.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
Trying to stir the pot are we? I'd say you seen the most incompelete and buggy re-release of pre-CU, pre-NGE features in SWG history. And the game is not improving with these publishes. The group XP change on TC, for example, is being severly criticized on the SOE forums. The NGE, I would also remind you, was never billded as new game as you imply above. The NGE was one of the worest adons in SWG or RPG history period. It was buggy, it was incomplete and now we are struck with a rift of publishes by SOE that simply continue down a poorly designed path.
On the contrary I was so excited to actually read something from you that didn't consist of "piss off pre cu Jedi Dog SWG is now uber!" that I read the entire thing. Now that we know you are capable of reason and coherent thought when it comes to arguments we expect more of it from now on!
The combat system did need some tweaking, but it was not fundamentally flawd. The lack of content and what you had to do to get XP had nothing to do with the combat system of the day it had to do with lazy ass SOE devs not doing there job. Just think of the massive amounts of content we would have today if those idiots wouldn't start from scratch every six months with a new combat system.
<imgsrc="http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/86975/Black_Fire.jpg">;
<ahref="http://profile.xfire.com/aetiuslonginus"><img src="http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sh/type/2/aetiuslonginus.png"; width="450" height="34" /></a>
What exactly were the publishes, I must have missed them.
Bounty hunting?
Heavy weapons?
Sitting on chairs fix?
The /pvp command?
Legacy quest bugfixes?
Removal of mind bar?
Seriously, what were these great publishes?
What exactly were the publishes, I must have missed them.
Bounty hunting?
Heavy weapons?
Sitting on chairs fix?
The /pvp command?
Legacy quest bugfixes?
Removal of mind bar?
Seriously, what were these great publishes?
um.. everything you mentioned in that post.
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
What exactly were the publishes, I must have missed them.
Bounty hunting?
Heavy weapons?
Sitting on chairs fix?
The /pvp command?
Legacy quest bugfixes?
Removal of mind bar?
Seriously, what were these great publishes?
um.. everything you mentioned in that post.
Why exactly are these the best publishes ever?
Let's look at pub 12.
- no /pvp, want to attack, just do it, that's what TEFs are for
- Bounty hunters - all the way
- Sitting on chairs - check
- Heavy weapons - check
- Mind bar - works
- Legacy quest - nope
So basically, Legacy quest is the greatest thing in history of SWG, and the culmination of their work in 6 months? Ok. Guess this is where the difference of opinions on the state of SWG comes from.
What exactly were the publishes, I must have missed them.
Bounty hunting?
Heavy weapons?
Sitting on chairs fix?
The /pvp command?
Legacy quest bugfixes?
Removal of mind bar?
Seriously, what were these great publishes?
um.. everything you mentioned in that post.
And in your own words pirrg, what is so great about those publishes?
let me explain what I ment shall I.
your title of the post is SWG is improving, just give it some time not the NGE is getting better, and whats more by your own admission many things were better back then (Pre-CU).
The point is if after all that SOE have done to "inprove" the game they only made it worse. after 3 years can anyone say: ok maybe next publish and the game will be done, i really dont think its possible, moreover anyone that does is crazy. because after 3 revamps 30 publishes (all of it done with broken and buggy code) SWG has been left all but unplayable. they is very little in the game you can do that does not has some kind of bug involved so will the next publish/revamp clear up the buggs and make the game playable?
NO WAY ON THIS EARTH (but id like it if I was wrong)
Next point, the NGE was not even ready for alpha testing so any fixes on that score will make the game seem more playable but that does not stop the NGE being bad design. and not worth my hard earned cash while your opinion of the game is getting better is a vailid one my opinion is 3 years 3 revamps 30 publishes and still we are in bata.
i was going to edit spelling but... I'm not
Tin Foil hats dont work.. its all a conspiracy
I saw an MTV video this week with four game developers who were interviewed at E3. I can't recall all their names, but the point is, the topic of sandbox freedom for the player vs. guided hand held step by step play was discussed.
The Gods of War guy just hated the sandbox approach and said he was faced with all this open choice and he just didn't know what to do. The other guys, Will Wright (Sims) and my favorite guy (who loved sandbox and mentioned proudly being a level 40 in Oblivion and having all the houses) really liked for themselves and the player setting up an environment where you have all these choices and the real fun is, seeing what the player does with them.
The killer with Galaxies is, the game was written with incredible freedom for the player to interact with the world and each other, then one day, somebody came along, shoved all the sand into a shoebox and said-here's your new game, you'll like this much better. If you don't like it, find a new shoebox.
They needed to leave the sandbox elements as they were and add in shoebox elements for the confused, but noooo. This is why they fail.
first, pirrg, your nose is browner than an brownie that's gone through the digestion system and ends up in the toilet. Immature, I know but it felt good.
Sandbox concept requires the players to use their imagination and actually do some thinking. I guess that was too hard for some people do deal with. The statement about facing an open choice and don't know what to do, is just pathetic. Plain and simple. People like this wants to play some mindnumbing handholding games that leaves the player no freedom in gameplay. Sorta like the NGE.
********************************
SWG pre cu - never forgotten.
Have to say, this is a decent thread, has some interesting discussion in it
Helped me pass the time while waiting for a factory to finish 
Just one question Pirrg, are you Australian?
Tin Foil hats dont work.. its all a conspiracy
Luckily the quake was pretty deep down so very few noticed it (including myself lol). It was also further North from where I am.
Thanks for the concern! Now, back to SWG discussion
The eternal sandbox mystery for SWG is, why why why did they never start writing quests that anyone could do, regardless of profession to the original game?
Why did they drop the popular Cries of Alderan story arc? Why not finish that, expand that, add more things like it?
Why did they build the "theme" parks and drop those story lines?
Why didn't they add more stories for Jabba's Palace, another popular place? It seems to me there was a huge thread with ideas for adding story content specifically for Jabba's Palace. And yes, I played through the Legacy Quest Jabba's Palace storyline and it was awful, just awful.
Now they sit with all those planets, all that possibility for content and story and depth and they sit and draw new Jedi robes and animations all day long, and tweak bounty hunter abilities, and knock their heads against the wall wondering how to get that danged combat just right.
No question at all if they had built, however slowly, upon the base sandbox game they started with they would have many many more players than they have now. They had so much to offer all in one wonderful place what people keep looking for in bits and pieces elsewhere.
They spent too much time making expansions, and then reinventing the wheel imho...
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
MAKE SWG FREE, UNTIL THEY FEEL THAT THEIR CUSTOMER BASE WOULD BE WILLING TO PAY FOR THE 'COMPLETE' GAME
Seriously, what better wat to show good faith other than to admit your product 'isn't where it should be' yet. Put it back into a development stage, an open beta stage if you will.
Would they lose money, absolutely, but maybe by attempting to show their customers that they weren't such scum, people would be more willing to give that game one final chance.
Besides, how long has SOE been screwing customers out of money now, 4 years or so.../ I think they deserve to pay some of that back.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Actually I would recommend Neocron if the programming quality was better. A nice try to unify FPS and MMOS, unfortunately it falls short on the technical side. Otherwise I would still play it myself.
let me explain what I ment shall I.
your title of the post is SWG is improving, just give it some time not the NGE is getting better, and whats more by your own admission many things were better back then (Pre-CU).
Well, the NGE is SWG and vice versa. As far as im concerned swg has only existed for 6 months. There is no point in crying over spilled milk.And yes, i said better in a SENSE. Better because they offered way more diversity but at the same time, worse because the very same diversity messed up the game balance.
The point is if after all that SOE have done to "inprove" the game they only made it worse. after 3 years can anyone say: ok maybe next publish and the game will be done, i really dont think its possible, moreover anyone that does is crazy. because after 3 revamps 30 publishes (all of it done with broken and buggy code) SWG has been left all but unplayable. they is very little in the game you can do that does not has some kind of bug involved so will the next publish/revamp clear up the buggs and make the game playable?
Bugs can be squashed, and seriously buddy its NOT that buggy anymore. I know what you mean with "ok maybe next publish and the game will be done". Its exactly how i used to feel pre-cuwhen they announced a miracle publish that was still 6 months away. You
cant possible compare what we had then with what we have now though.
Nowadays we get plenty of quality publishes. Infact each publish since
the NGE hit has been better then ANY given publish before the NGE.
NO WAY ON THIS EARTH (but id like it if I was wrong)
Next point, the NGE was not even ready for alpha testing so any fixes on that score will make the game seem more playable but that does not stop the NGE being bad design. and not worth my hard earned cash while your opinion of the game is getting better is a vailid one my opinion is 3 years 3 revamps 30 publishes and still we are in bata.
Sure the game needs some improvement, but i wouldnt go so far as to say that its still in beta. SWG today is more complete then it has ever been if you look at the game balance, content and fun faction. But thats just my opinion.
i was going to edit spelling but... I'm not
To everyone else that has replied, my online time is fairly limited so i cant reply to everyone all in one go, and no obraik im not australian mate
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
I think that's something both sides can agree on. "SWG: Now better then complete paralysis!"
That has to be the weirdest comparison I've seen on this yet.