It seems that ALOT of the complaints are aimed at the combat mechanics, and even now SOE are making it easier to target your foe. Its called compromising mate. Alot of players love this new mechanic and i understand that alot of players absolutely hate it. The key is to meet somewhere at the middle and not camp at one end of the extreme like most people on this forum are doing. And on your last paragraph, we can only dream. I strongly believe that swg could be the best mmo ever in the hands of dedicated players.
thats it for me, im off to bed
ok so ... swg back in the day 300k subs ...
swg now 50k subs ( this is a generous figure i dont even know if swg has this many)
so 250k dont like the new combat system ...
50k do ( again a generous figure many just play the game because its star wars )
so the combat mechanics would have to swing waaaay towards what the 250k players liked for it to be a true compromise
It seems that ALOT of the complaints are aimed at the combat mechanics, and even now SOE are making it easier to target your foe. Its called compromising mate. Alot of players love this new mechanic and i understand that alot of players absolutely hate it. The key is to meet somewhere at the middle and not camp at one end of the extreme like most people on this forum are doing. And on your last paragraph, we can only dream. I strongly believe that swg could be the best mmo ever in the hands of dedicated players.
Players have no impact on an MMO, no matter how dedicated.
And yes, players like the new combat.
Too bad majority of the former subscribers didn't. Or do you have another explanation, why people aren't flocking back into the game?
If combat were the core problem (after all, 2.5 combat upgrades, 0 content upgrades), why didn't these changes turn the game around?
What killed the SWG was focusing exclusively on combat in a game, where that was not the focus. If they stuck to the original design and built on top of that, things would be different. They could hardly be worse than they are now.
I used to say this all the time.. all the time I played the game for 3 YEARS. Then my brain evolved and I realized SOE cares for one thing only... the almighty dollar. They are liars, decievers and all round horrid devs. If you like the game now you are probably 13 years old and trying to prove how leet you are or how much you can pwn.
SWG once stood for something... now thats long dead.
If you remember, there was a very short period in SWG's existance when the Jedi system worked perfectly. Extreme risk versus extreme reward. If you wanted to play an overpowered character you had to live with the consequences of your mistakes, which in this case were quite severe. With Saber TEF and permanent death, it was a flawless system. Unfortunately egotistical whining from simpletons that couldnt see the bigger picture sufficed and SOE decided to change that formula, making jedi an easy class to play yet still extremely powerful. This was the beginning of the end for swg as you knew it. Ofcourse most people failed or just didnt care to see that.
I disagree, I think that the Jedi system was always flawed. There were good ideas (Saber TEF) but it also included horrible ideas (hologrind). IMO, once an alpha class was introduced, they should have been limited to fighting each other (light vs. dark) and removed from PvPing with other characters (GCW).
Well, for me doing something repetitive is grinding. Exterminating the local fauna to master your profession over and over sounds like a grind to me.
How is that different from doing the same quests over and over again? Get quest, drive to waypoint, kill everything there, drive back to get another quest. Sounds a lot like the old mission terminals but with way more driving.
Actually, I don't have a problem with the "quest" system in the NGE, with both quests and missions accessible. They should have put that in a very long time ago. To bad they ruined any questing experience for me with the combat system.
Well alot of players did care, and most of them were extremely unhappy with the state of SWG's pvp. For me, the game was about the factional warfare and that warfare existed for a while until jedi and flavour of the month templates destroyed it.
Actually, I think the big reason why the PvP was disappointing was that there were so few reasons to fight in the GCW. Raiding player bases became boring and the only change that you saw (in the CU) was factional alignment changing at certain starports. Further, the bases themselves took a lot of faction grinding or credit grinding to buy in the first place.
I couldnt agree more on this point. If i remember correctly back in beta the overwhelming majority of beta testers begged the team not to release the game. Unfortunately there was an enormous horde of people on the other side of the fence that were determained to play the game at any cost. SOE rushed it, plain and simple. SWG remains one of the most unfinished games released to the public save for "seed" perhaps.
Heh! I remember reading the beta forums at work one day. The prior night I had a CTD three times while trying to use a shuttle, and the next day I was seeing posts stating that the game wasn't going to be delayed. That was the exact point that I decided that I wasn't going to purchase the game at launch. I don't remember if there was a pre-order, if there was I cancelled it.
It seems that ALOT of the complaints are aimed at the combat mechanics, and even now SOE are making it easier to target your foe. Its called compromising mate. Alot of players love this new mechanic and i understand that alot of players absolutely hate it. The key is to meet somewhere at the middle and not camp at one end of the extreme like most people on this forum are doing.
Actually, the key is to actually fix your combat mechanics, not replace them. That is the big reason that I doubt I'll ever come back to SWG. As long as you are required to have your mouse on the target (and I don't believe that is changing) for the ground game, I will not enjoy it. I hope that there will be players that enjoy the new combat system whenever it is finished, and if there are then I hope they thank all of you beta testers that funded the project.
I strongly believe that swg could be the best mmo ever in the hands of dedicated players.
It is not up to the players to make SWG the best MMO ever, that is in the hands of the developers. Considering that the developers have a track record showing massive declines in subscriptions, I doubt it will ever happen.
Actually, I think their biggest mistake was listening to players (either people playing SWG or WOW, take your pick).
It seems that ALOT of the complaints are aimed at the combat mechanics, and even now SOE are making it easier to target your foe. Its called compromising mate. Alot of players love this new mechanic and i understand that alot of players absolutely hate it. The key is to meet somewhere at the middle and not camp at one end of the extreme like most people on this forum are doing. And on your last paragraph, we can only dream. I strongly believe that swg could be the best mmo ever in the hands of dedicated players.
thats it for me, im off to bed
ok so ... swg back in the day 300k subs ...
swg now 50k subs ( this is a generous figure i dont even know if swg has this many)
so 250k dont like the new combat system ...
50k do ( again a generous figure many just play the game because its star wars )
so the combat mechanics would have to swing waaaay towards what the 250k players liked for it to be a true compromise
I just don't see why you are going to argue with another player about an issue such as this . Only SOE can do what you and many others demand , The only thing a current player can argue this point with is ." Hey give feedback and help reach a middle ground " . That is all anyone can do at this point . And it is not even guaranteed that will help . In some cases it is arguable as of late that feedback does go somewhere , Other than an all out rollback . It (Seems ) the devs are willing to work with their current subscibers to better "their" vision of the game . It is not hard to see what that vision is , Given the many statements made over the last few months . They want a console / casual friendly action oriented mmo . Which really has yet to be made so far in this genre of gaming .
I have always held the belief that any game , can be a good game given enough time . Look at EQ2 for example , or SOR . This has nothing to do with understanding or not , That doing what has been done with a game in live service for almost 3 years . Is questionable and quite moronic . But it has been done and it is about half a year later . It has been over a year since the original changes . Honestly it seems all of what seven or eight years ? Of this games development has been all for nothing . Not one of the systems / versions has trully paid off for the developers .
IMO it is their right to try and fullfil the potential of this game , Given for us the old players . Or the "new" , The trademark deserves a good game . Can SOe make one ? Sure they can it may not be your or my cup of tea , But it is entirely possible .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Just a reaeeeeally reaaaalllly bad chat room you pay 15 bucks a month to play.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
The storyline is laughable at best. ITs only one line. Only a handful of quests. People are totting it as wonderful that SWG has content. Well sorry guys but there really arent that many. SWG is still a wasteland when it comes to content. Its the same basic story for everyone.
Other games have hundreds of different paths or stories to follow that overlap and run together. SWG has 1.
I remember reading the ads for ToOW. One of the things they said was "...Over 50 new quests." I then look at other games releasing expansions around the sametime and they are advertising numbers like "over 750 new quests" or "150 new storylines" and I think to myself "You know SOE, you might want to keep that quest thing a secret."
Originally posted by KenshuAni @ Pirrg: I need to point out several itemsthanks for the reply buddy, my response goes as such
If you remember, there was a very short period in SWG's existance when the Jedi system worked perfectly. Extreme risk versus extreme reward. If you wanted to play an overpowered character you had to live with the consequences of your mistakes, which in this case were quite severe. With Saber TEF and permanent death, it was a flawless system. Unfortunately egotistical whining from simpletons that couldnt see the bigger picture sufficed and SOE decided to change that formula, making jedi an easy class to play yet still extremely powerful. This was the beginning of the end for swg as you knew it. Ofcourse most people failed or just didnt care to see that. I disagree, I think that the Jedi system was always flawed. There were good ideas (Saber TEF) but it also included horrible ideas (hologrind). IMO, once an alpha class was introduced, they should have been limited to fighting each other (light vs. dark) and removed from PvPing with other characters (GCW).
How you got jedi never bothered me since being a jedi wasnt my aim. Alas, it was far too easy even in pre-cu. All you needed was alot of spare time and some nice macro's, then grind one profession at a time. That would all have been fine though if permadeath remained as it was. Unfortunately, like i said, egotistical and narrowminded people destroyed all that which ironically set in motion the beginning of the end for pre-cu. There wouldnt have had to be limits and such if only permadeath remained. It was a PERFECT system ruined by simpletons and whining carebears.
Well, for me doing something repetitive is grinding. Exterminating the local fauna to master your profession over and over sounds like a grind to me. How is that different from doing the same quests over and over again? Get quest, drive to waypoint, kill everything there, drive back to get another quest. Sounds a lot like the old mission terminals but with way more driving. Actually, I don't have a problem with the "quest" system in the NGE, with both quests and missions accessible. They should have put that in a very long time ago. To bad they ruined any questing experience for me with the combat system. Questing "masks" the grinding. World of warcraft is a huge grind but you wont really notice it until later levels because of chain quests and overall diversity of the missions. Anything is an improvement over randomly generated missions 1-2k from the terminal.
Well alot of players did care, and most of them were extremely unhappy with the state of SWG's pvp. For me, the game was about the factional warfare and that warfare existed for a while until jedi and flavour of the month templates destroyed it. Actually, I think the big reason why the PvP was disappointing was that there were so few reasons to fight in the GCW. Raiding player bases became boring and the only change that you saw (in the CU) was factional alignment changing at certain starports. Further, the bases themselves took a lot of faction grinding or credit grinding to buy in the first place. Agreed. There was no point to it, and ontop of that the foundation of the pvp system was garbage. But hey, they plan to change all that so its all good with me.
I couldnt agree more on this point. If i remember correctly back in beta the overwhelming majority of beta testers begged the team not to release the game. Unfortunately there was an enormous horde of people on the other side of the fence that were determained to play the game at any cost. SOE rushed it, plain and simple. SWG remains one of the most unfinished games released to the public save for "seed" perhaps. Heh! I remember reading the beta forums at work one day. The prior night I had a CTD three times while trying to use a shuttle, and the next day I was seeing posts stating that the game wasn't going to be delayed. That was the exact point that I decided that I wasn't going to purchase the game at launch. I don't remember if there was a pre-order, if there was I cancelled it. You and many others my friend.
It seems that ALOT of the complaints are aimed at the combat mechanics, and even now SOE are making it easier to target your foe. Its called compromising mate. Alot of players love this new mechanic and i understand that alot of players absolutely hate it. The key is to meet somewhere at the middle and not camp at one end of the extreme like most people on this forum are doing. Actually, the key is to actually fix your combat mechanics, not replace them. That is the big reason that I doubt I'll ever come back to SWG. As long as you are required to have your mouse on the target (and I don't believe that is changing) for the ground game, I will not enjoy it. I hope that there will be players that enjoy the new combat system whenever it is finished, and if there are then I hope they thank all of you beta testers that funded the project. In my opinion It DOES add more interactivity to the combat. In the past all you did was stand still and spam a hotkey. You didnt even need to face the right direction.. But again, either is fine by me, ill even settle for some kind of hybrid as long as everyone is happy.
I strongly believe that swg could be the best mmo ever in the hands of dedicated players. It is not up to the players to make SWG the best MMO ever, that is in the hands of the developers. Considering that the developers have a track record showing massive declines in subscriptions, I doubt it will ever happen. Actually, I think their biggest mistake was listening to players (either people playing SWG or WOW, take your pick). Thats the thing, the vocal minority (you know who you are) are only concerned about whats good for THEM. A truly dedicated player would see the bigger picture and give suggestions accordingly while the narrowminded and egotistical player only cares about what happens in his own little world. Remember back in the days when pretty much everyone complained about jedi being overpowered, yet the jedi failed to acknowledge that claiming they deserved more because they grinded more. Well, look at where we are now. Maybe they should have cooporated more eh?The biggest mistake any developer makes is to listen to the whiners that are only concerned about their own characters.
_____________________ I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
Originally posted by pirrg Originally posted by KenshuAni @ Pirrg: I need to point out several itemsthanks for the reply buddy, my response goes as such
Thats the thing, the vocal minority (you know who you are) are only concerned about whats good for THEM. A truly dedicated player would see the bigger picture and give suggestions accordingly while the narrowminded and egotistical player only cares about what happens in his own little world. Remember back in the days when pretty much everyone complained about jedi being overpowered, yet the jedi failed to acknowledge that claiming they deserved more because they grinded more. Well, look at where we are now. Maybe they should have cooporated more eh?The biggest mistake any developer makes is to listen to the whiners that are only concerned about their own characters.
Thats the thing, the vocal minority (you know who you are) are only concerned about whats good for THEM. A truly dedicated player would see the bigger picture and give suggestions accordingly while the narrowminded and egotistical player only cares about what happens in his own little world. Remember back in the days when pretty much everyone complained about jedi being overpowered, yet the jedi failed to acknowledge that claiming they deserved more because they grinded more. Well, look at where we are now. Maybe they should have cooporated more eh?The biggest mistake any developer makes is to listen to the whiners that are only concerned about their own characters.
Thats the thing, the vocal minority (you know who you are) are only concerned about whats good for THEM. A truly dedicated player would see the bigger picture and give suggestions accordingly while the narrowminded and egotistical player only cares about what happens in his own little world. Remember back in the days when pretty much everyone complained about jedi being overpowered, yet the jedi failed to acknowledge that claiming they deserved more because they grinded more. Well, look at where we are now. Maybe they should have cooporated more eh?The biggest mistake any developer makes is to listen to the whiners that are only concerned about their own characters.
Thats the thing, the vocal minority (you know who you are) are only concerned about whats good for THEM. A truly dedicated player would see the bigger picture and give suggestions accordingly while the narrowminded and egotistical player only cares about what happens in his own little world. Remember back in the days when pretty much everyone complained about jedi being overpowered, yet the jedi failed to acknowledge that claiming they deserved more because they grinded more. Well, look at where we are now. Maybe they should have cooporated more eh?The biggest mistake any developer makes is to listen to the whiners that are only concerned about their own characters.
I agree with most of everything in this post piirg.. I disagree though about the vocal minority statement. We tried our best to get SOE to listen to what needed to be fixed. Instead they pushed out expansion after expansion instead of fixing what needed to be fixed. In the beggining the bugs could of been managable. Instead they just added insult to injury by pushing out unfuinshied publishes / expansions. I surmize that had they "fixed" things in the beggining then we wouldnt be where we are now. The "vocal minority" wanted the game fixed.. not changed to fit their needs as you state.
Xcathdra
Thats the thing, the vocal minority (you know who you are) are only concerned about whats good for THEM. A truly dedicated player would see the bigger picture and give suggestions accordingly while the narrowminded and egotistical player only cares about what happens in his own little world. Remember back in the days when pretty much everyone complained about jedi being overpowered, yet the jedi failed to acknowledge that claiming they deserved more because they grinded more. Well, look at where we are now. Maybe they should have cooporated more eh?The biggest mistake any developer makes is to listen to the whiners that are only concerned about their own characters.
Thats the thing, the vocal minority (you know who you are) are only concerned about whats good for THEM. A truly dedicated player would see the bigger picture and give suggestions accordingly while the narrowminded and egotistical player only cares about what happens in his own little world. Remember back in the days when pretty much everyone complained about jedi being overpowered, yet the jedi failed to acknowledge that claiming they deserved more because they grinded more. Well, look at where we are now. Maybe they should have cooporated more eh?The biggest mistake any developer makes is to listen to the whiners that are only concerned about their own characters.
Thats the thing, the vocal minority (you know who you are) are only concerned about whats good for THEM. A truly dedicated player would see the bigger picture and give suggestions accordingly while the narrowminded and egotistical player only cares about what happens in his own little world. Remember back in the days when pretty much everyone complained about jedi being overpowered, yet the jedi failed to acknowledge that claiming they deserved more because they grinded more. Well, look at where we are now. Maybe they should have cooporated more eh?The biggest mistake any developer makes is to listen to the whiners that are only concerned about their own characters.
Thats the thing, the vocal minority (you know who you are) are only concerned about whats good for THEM. A truly dedicated player would see the bigger picture and give suggestions accordingly while the narrowminded and egotistical player only cares about what happens in his own little world. Remember back in the days when pretty much everyone complained about jedi being overpowered, yet the jedi failed to acknowledge that claiming they deserved more because they grinded more. Well, look at where we are now. Maybe they should have cooporated more eh?The biggest mistake any developer makes is to listen to the whiners that are only concerned about their own characters.
I agree with most of everything in this post piirg.. I disagree though about the vocal minority statement. We tried our best to get SOE to listen to what needed to be fixed. Instead they pushed out expansion after expansion instead of fixing what needed to be fixed. In the beggining the bugs could of been managable. Instead they just added insult to injury by pushing out unfuinshied publishes / expansions. I surmize that had they "fixed" things in the beggining then we wouldnt be where we are now. The "vocal minority" wanted the game fixed.. not changed to fit their needs as you state.
Xcathdra
How you got jedi never bothered me since being a jedi wasnt my aim. Alas, it was far too easy even in pre-cu. All you needed was alot of spare time and some nice macro's, then grind one profession at a time. That would all have been fine though if permadeath remained as it was. Unfortunately, like i said, egotistical and narrowminded people destroyed all that which ironically set in motion the beginning of the end for pre-cu. There wouldnt have had to be limits and such if only permadeath remained. It was a PERFECT system ruined by simpletons and whining carebears.
Well, for me doing something repetitive is grinding. Exterminating the local fauna to master your profession over and over sounds like a grind to me. How is that different from doing the same quests over and over again? Get quest, drive to waypoint, kill everything there, drive back to get another quest. Sounds a lot like the old mission terminals but with way more driving. Actually, I don't have a problem with the "quest" system in the NGE, with both quests and missions accessible. They should have put that in a very long time ago. To bad they ruined any questing experience for me with the combat system. Questing "masks" the grinding. World of warcraft is a huge grind but you wont really notice it until later levels because of chain quests and overall diversity of the missions. Anything is an improvement over randomly generated missions 1-2k from the terminal.
Well alot of players did care, and most of them were extremely unhappy with the state of SWG's pvp. For me, the game was about the factional warfare and that warfare existed for a while until jedi and flavour of the month templates destroyed it. Actually, I think the big reason why the PvP was disappointing was that there were so few reasons to fight in the GCW. Raiding player bases became boring and the only change that you saw (in the CU) was factional alignment changing at certain starports. Further, the bases themselves took a lot of faction grinding or credit grinding to buy in the first place. Agreed. There was no point to it, and ontop of that the foundation of the pvp system was garbage. But hey, they plan to change all that so its all good with me.
I couldnt agree more on this point. If i remember correctly back in beta the overwhelming majority of beta testers begged the team not to release the game. Unfortunately there was an enormous horde of people on the other side of the fence that were determained to play the game at any cost. SOE rushed it, plain and simple. SWG remains one of the most unfinished games released to the public save for "seed" perhaps. Heh! I remember reading the beta forums at work one day. The prior night I had a CTD three times while trying to use a shuttle, and the next day I was seeing posts stating that the game wasn't going to be delayed. That was the exact point that I decided that I wasn't going to purchase the game at launch. I don't remember if there was a pre-order, if there was I cancelled it. You and many others my friend.
It seems that ALOT of the complaints are aimed at the combat mechanics, and even now SOE are making it easier to target your foe. Its called compromising mate. Alot of players love this new mechanic and i understand that alot of players absolutely hate it. The key is to meet somewhere at the middle and not camp at one end of the extreme like most people on this forum are doing. Actually, the key is to actually fix your combat mechanics, not replace them. That is the big reason that I doubt I'll ever come back to SWG. As long as you are required to have your mouse on the target (and I don't believe that is changing) for the ground game, I will not enjoy it. I hope that there will be players that enjoy the new combat system whenever it is finished, and if there are then I hope they thank all of you beta testers that funded the project. In my opinion It DOES add more interactivity to the combat. In the past all you did was stand still and spam a hotkey. You didnt even need to face the right direction.. But again, either is fine by me, ill even settle for some kind of hybrid as long as everyone is happy.
I strongly believe that swg could be the best mmo ever in the hands of dedicated players. It is not up to the players to make SWG the best MMO ever, that is in the hands of the developers. Considering that the developers have a track record showing massive declines in subscriptions, I doubt it will ever happen. Actually, I think their biggest mistake was listening to players (either people playing SWG or WOW, take your pick). Thats the thing, the vocal minority (you know who you are) are only concerned about whats good for THEM. A truly dedicated player would see the bigger picture and give suggestions accordingly while the narrowminded and egotistical player only cares about what happens in his own little world. Remember back in the days when pretty much everyone complained about jedi being overpowered, yet the jedi failed to acknowledge that claiming they deserved more because they grinded more. Well, look at where we are now. Maybe they should have cooporated more eh?The biggest mistake any developer makes is to listen to the whiners that are only concerned about their own characters.
Well alot of players did care, and most of them were extremely unhappy with the state of SWG's pvp. For me, the game was about the factional warfare and that warfare existed for a while until jedi and flavour of the month templates destroyed it. Actually, I think the big reason why the PvP was disappointing was that there were so few reasons to fight in the GCW. Raiding player bases became boring and the only change that you saw (in the CU) was factional alignment changing at certain starports. Further, the bases themselves took a lot of faction grinding or credit grinding to buy in the first place. Agreed. There was no point to it, and ontop of that the foundation of the pvp system was garbage. But hey, they plan to change all that so its all good with me.
I couldnt agree more on this point. If i remember correctly back in beta the overwhelming majority of beta testers begged the team not to release the game. Unfortunately there was an enormous horde of people on the other side of the fence that were determained to play the game at any cost. SOE rushed it, plain and simple. SWG remains one of the most unfinished games released to the public save for "seed" perhaps. Heh! I remember reading the beta forums at work one day. The prior night I had a CTD three times while trying to use a shuttle, and the next day I was seeing posts stating that the game wasn't going to be delayed. That was the exact point that I decided that I wasn't going to purchase the game at launch. I don't remember if there was a pre-order, if there was I cancelled it. You and many others my friend.
It seems that ALOT of the complaints are aimed at the combat mechanics, and even now SOE are making it easier to target your foe. Its called compromising mate. Alot of players love this new mechanic and i understand that alot of players absolutely hate it. The key is to meet somewhere at the middle and not camp at one end of the extreme like most people on this forum are doing. Actually, the key is to actually fix your combat mechanics, not replace them. That is the big reason that I doubt I'll ever come back to SWG. As long as you are required to have your mouse on the target (and I don't believe that is changing) for the ground game, I will not enjoy it. I hope that there will be players that enjoy the new combat system whenever it is finished, and if there are then I hope they thank all of you beta testers that funded the project. In my opinion It DOES add more interactivity to the combat. In the past all you did was stand still and spam a hotkey. You didnt even need to face the right direction.. But again, either is fine by me, ill even settle for some kind of hybrid as long as everyone is happy.
I strongly believe that swg could be the best mmo ever in the hands of dedicated players. It is not up to the players to make SWG the best MMO ever, that is in the hands of the developers. Considering that the developers have a track record showing massive declines in subscriptions, I doubt it will ever happen. Actually, I think their biggest mistake was listening to players (either people playing SWG or WOW, take your pick). Thats the thing, the vocal minority (you know who you are) are only concerned about whats good for THEM. A truly dedicated player would see the bigger picture and give suggestions accordingly while the narrowminded and egotistical player only cares about what happens in his own little world. Remember back in the days when pretty much everyone complained about jedi being overpowered, yet the jedi failed to acknowledge that claiming they deserved more because they grinded more. Well, look at where we are now. Maybe they should have cooporated more eh?The biggest mistake any developer makes is to listen to the whiners that are only concerned about their own characters.
Well alot of players did care, and most of them were extremely unhappy with the state of SWG's pvp. For me, the game was about the factional warfare and that warfare existed for a while until jedi and flavour of the month templates destroyed it. Actually, I think the big reason why the PvP was disappointing was that there were so few reasons to fight in the GCW. Raiding player bases became boring and the only change that you saw (in the CU) was factional alignment changing at certain starports. Further, the bases themselves took a lot of faction grinding or credit grinding to buy in the first place. Agreed. There was no point to it, and ontop of that the foundation of the pvp system was garbage. But hey, they plan to change all that so its all good with me.
I couldnt agree more on this point. If i remember correctly back in beta the overwhelming majority of beta testers begged the team not to release the game. Unfortunately there was an enormous horde of people on the other side of the fence that were determained to play the game at any cost. SOE rushed it, plain and simple. SWG remains one of the most unfinished games released to the public save for "seed" perhaps. Heh! I remember reading the beta forums at work one day. The prior night I had a CTD three times while trying to use a shuttle, and the next day I was seeing posts stating that the game wasn't going to be delayed. That was the exact point that I decided that I wasn't going to purchase the game at launch. I don't remember if there was a pre-order, if there was I cancelled it. You and many others my friend.
It seems that ALOT of the complaints are aimed at the combat mechanics, and even now SOE are making it easier to target your foe. Its called compromising mate. Alot of players love this new mechanic and i understand that alot of players absolutely hate it. The key is to meet somewhere at the middle and not camp at one end of the extreme like most people on this forum are doing. Actually, the key is to actually fix your combat mechanics, not replace them. That is the big reason that I doubt I'll ever come back to SWG. As long as you are required to have your mouse on the target (and I don't believe that is changing) for the ground game, I will not enjoy it. I hope that there will be players that enjoy the new combat system whenever it is finished, and if there are then I hope they thank all of you beta testers that funded the project. In my opinion It DOES add more interactivity to the combat. In the past all you did was stand still and spam a hotkey. You didnt even need to face the right direction.. But again, either is fine by me, ill even settle for some kind of hybrid as long as everyone is happy.
I strongly believe that swg could be the best mmo ever in the hands of dedicated players. It is not up to the players to make SWG the best MMO ever, that is in the hands of the developers. Considering that the developers have a track record showing massive declines in subscriptions, I doubt it will ever happen. Actually, I think their biggest mistake was listening to players (either people playing SWG or WOW, take your pick). Thats the thing, the vocal minority (you know who you are) are only concerned about whats good for THEM. A truly dedicated player would see the bigger picture and give suggestions accordingly while the narrowminded and egotistical player only cares about what happens in his own little world. Remember back in the days when pretty much everyone complained about jedi being overpowered, yet the jedi failed to acknowledge that claiming they deserved more because they grinded more. Well, look at where we are now. Maybe they should have cooporated more eh?The biggest mistake any developer makes is to listen to the whiners that are only concerned about their own characters.
I agree with most of everything in this post piirg.. I disagree though about the vocal minority statement. We tried our best to get SOE to listen to what needed to be fixed. Instead they pushed out expansion after expansion instead of fixing what needed to be fixed. In the beggining the bugs could of been managable. Instead they just added insult to injury by pushing out unfuinshied publishes / expansions. I surmize that had they "fixed" things in the beggining then we wouldnt be where we are now. The "vocal minority" wanted the game fixed.. not changed to fit their needs as you state.
Xcathdra
I agree with most of everything in this post piirg.. I disagree though about the vocal minority statement. We tried our best to get SOE to listen to what needed to be fixed. Instead they pushed out expansion after expansion instead of fixing what needed to be fixed. In the beggining the bugs could of been managable. Instead they just added insult to injury by pushing out unfuinshied publishes / expansions. I surmize that had they "fixed" things in the beggining then we wouldnt be where we are now. The "vocal minority" wanted the game fixed.. not changed to fit their needs as you state.
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Originally posted by bugzonlsd Just to be off sub and ignorant of this post because its a bs post anyhow lol , I think we made our own new swg offical forums here by now Now all we need is REAL STAR WARS mmo to play and we'd be set baby WOOT!
Originally posted by pirrg Hey all, your favourite neighborhood pirrg here. This might be long so bare with me..
It may come as a surprise to many of you to learn that i used to play SWG pre-cu. The reason i quit was due to the utter lack of content in the game at the time and the fact that jedi could take on 10 people at once and emerge victorious without so much as a scratch. Back when killing baz-nitches (pre-nerf) and quenkers were the norm for xp grinding and when a gurcat was your best friend. When there really wasnt anything to do in the game besides grinding professions and decorating your house.
Back when publishes were few and far inbetween and when they did come, they were garbage. Back when everyone thought the "combat upgrade" would fix a broken game (mind you, it was still in concept back then).
Now, ill admit that SOME things were better back then. The 32 professions were better then the 9 we have now in a sense because the crafters general role in the game was better then it is now. The entertainers role in the game was better and the game was aimed at a larger audience. From mildly retarded lawn-care tool makers to 80 year old grandfathers and so on which offered some diversity ingame. But the negatives FAR outweigh the positives and lets face it, pre-cu was a negative experience for most people. Thats why it only had 300k regular subscribers, even with a name like Star Wars and the immense hype it recieved in beta.
I mean there was absolutely NO content! There were generic kill missions that randomly spawned at a point 1-2k from the terminal and two themeparks one could easily finish in a day or two. Other then that, the game was barren of any worthwile content. The only "content" was to grind new professions over and over or grind a jedi which never was an option for me and many others. Players creating their own content only goes so far, you cant base a game around it unless you give those players some proper tools to support their ideas.
The PvP was a travesty. First it was the pokemon wars where creature handlers ruled the pvp battlefield. Then it was the mindshot3-spam wars where all you did was run around (or stand still, didnt matter) and spam mindshot3. Going from that to the combat medic wars or the kd/dizzy spam wars or whatever the flavour of the month profession was, all you ended up with was everyone running around with the same template and weapons and armours spamming the same boring move over and over. Depending on what month it was, you never really noticed that the game had 32 professions because almost everyone was a bounty hunter or a TKA/Combat medic or a rifleman/doctor or what have you.
Im not happy that they cut down professions from 32 to 9 but i realize now that its something that HAD to be done. There were simply far too many combinations you could pick to make them all balanced against eachother.
Swg simply wasnt a fun game to play. You logged in and asked yourself, "ok.. now what?". And lets face it, your options were limited. You can only decorate your house so many times before it gets boring.
If letting go of 32 professions and making the game less accessible is the prize i have to pay for good publishes at regular intervalls and a general willingness from the developers to make SWG a better game, i pay it gladly.
Once they create subprofessions for each profession making them more diverse, the difference between pre-cu profession system and the NGE wont be all that great. Only way more balanced and more fun for everyone. But the difference in content is immense already. With two expansions smack-filled with content and a great space simulator, swg is better then ever, and once publish 30-32 hits this game will reclaim its rightful rule as the number one mmo out there.
Dont take this as a flame since I do agree with most everything you said.
The problem wasnt that SWG PreCU was boring. I agree it was. The dev's never made a serious effort to balance or add the content we asked for. Instead of fixing the game they brought out expansions. Shouldnt have to pay more money for content. We asked for regular profession revamps instead they revamped Jedi over and over.
SWG failed not because it was a bad concept in general. SWG failed since the dev's never finished the game. They never fine tuned combat. They never even attempted to balance the unhittable melee stackers or godlike composite TK clones.
SWG never had a chance to mature. I can only imagine the state of the game had they actually attempted to finish it instead of milking more money out of subscribers with buggy expansions. Why use man hours to finish something when they can just use those hours to make something else for you to buy?
Marking on my calendar as this being the one day where I agree with pirrg on a few things. However, the title is where I would like to point a few things out.
Just Give It Some Time.
SOE coined this phrase a few years back - they may own the rights to it as it is their unofficial motto. This give it some more TIME concept may well have worked back in the day when there was slim mmorpg pickings but we are standing at the advent of what may well be the highest point of the mmorpg era. Arguably, after this round - everything may well be in decline. At any rate, in the face of all of this upcoming competition - there isn't room for extended forgiveness for near beta play by the players. SOE may have the wallets to keep this game under development without the numbers but that won't cut it when other games start rising on the charts. Despite the rumors - there are a finite number of players.
One of SOE's grievous sins was to ignore that word of mouth is the best advertising in this market. Changing midstream at the expense of vets and their subscriptions left this game with a very bad black eye. Worse still, allowing THIS much TIME to pass to make the replacement system enjoyable. Worse still, they are asking the lot of us for "more time". While the WoWs and the EVEs shatter records and expand into new frontiers all the while keeping their player base mostly intact - SWG is using thread and needle to replace appendages. I will agree that they are trying to improve things but I think it is too little too late. They may well end up with a great game in the end - but that is the problem. It will be the end as it will be outmoded, antiquated and gone the way of the elder games.
TIME is valuable and precious to each of us here. There are other companies and games that seem to appreciate my TIME more than SOE does as they voted me obsolete and expendable. So in the end, the only TIME I am willing to give them is the time I spend here hoping for a miracle all the while waiting on a replacement.
imho, these calls for "balance", and the lame brains at SOE listening to these cries are what landed us where we are today (a broken game)
WHY should a CH be "balanced" against a Rifleman? WHY should TK be "balanced" against a Ranger? i dont believe balance in MMORPG's does/should exist. its kinda the whole point to an MMORPG to have DIVERSE profession which compliment each other in combat. kinda like the rock, paper, scissors concept.
also, if you and 10 of your friends couldnt take down a jedi, you just plain sucked. i could hold my own against most jedi w/ my Fencer/Doctor. and if i had a friend or two with me, that jedi was in serious trouble. To anyone who says any profession should be able to kill jedi, i say go watch the films, and read the novels. i didnt grow up idolizing jedi b/c they were just like every other proff.
Perhaps we should all run down to our local supermarket and raise hell cuz the apples arent "balanced" with the oranges.
Comments
thats it for me, im off to bed
ok so ... swg back in the day 300k subs ...
swg now 50k subs ( this is a generous figure i dont even know if swg has this many)
so 250k dont like the new combat system ...
50k do ( again a generous figure many just play the game because its star wars )
so the combat mechanics would have to swing waaaay towards what the 250k players liked for it to be a true compromise
Players have no impact on an MMO, no matter how dedicated.
And yes, players like the new combat.
Too bad majority of the former subscribers didn't. Or do you have another explanation, why people aren't flocking back into the game?
If combat were the core problem (after all, 2.5 combat upgrades, 0 content upgrades), why didn't these changes turn the game around?
What killed the SWG was focusing exclusively on combat in a game, where that was not the focus. If they stuck to the original design and built on top of that, things would be different. They could hardly be worse than they are now.
SWG once stood for something... now thats long dead.
@ Pirrg: I need to point out several items
If you remember, there was a very short period in SWG's existance when the Jedi system worked perfectly. Extreme risk versus extreme reward. If you wanted to play an overpowered character you had to live with the consequences of your mistakes, which in this case were quite severe. With Saber TEF and permanent death, it was a flawless system. Unfortunately egotistical whining from simpletons that couldnt see the bigger picture sufficed and SOE decided to change that formula, making jedi an easy class to play yet still extremely powerful. This was the beginning of the end for swg as you knew it. Ofcourse most people failed or just didnt care to see that.
I disagree, I think that the Jedi system was always flawed. There were good ideas (Saber TEF) but it also included horrible ideas (hologrind). IMO, once an alpha class was introduced, they should have been limited to fighting each other (light vs. dark) and removed from PvPing with other characters (GCW).
Well, for me doing something repetitive is grinding. Exterminating the local fauna to master your profession over and over sounds like a grind to me.
How is that different from doing the same quests over and over again? Get quest, drive to waypoint, kill everything there, drive back to get another quest. Sounds a lot like the old mission terminals but with way more driving.
Actually, I don't have a problem with the "quest" system in the NGE, with both quests and missions accessible. They should have put that in a very long time ago. To bad they ruined any questing experience for me with the combat system.
Well alot of players did care, and most of them were extremely unhappy with the state of SWG's pvp. For me, the game was about the factional warfare and that warfare existed for a while until jedi and flavour of the month templates destroyed it.
Actually, I think the big reason why the PvP was disappointing was that there were so few reasons to fight in the GCW. Raiding player bases became boring and the only change that you saw (in the CU) was factional alignment changing at certain starports. Further, the bases themselves took a lot of faction grinding or credit grinding to buy in the first place.
I couldnt agree more on this point. If i remember correctly back in beta the overwhelming majority of beta testers begged the team not to release the game. Unfortunately there was an enormous horde of people on the other side of the fence that were determained to play the game at any cost. SOE rushed it, plain and simple. SWG remains one of the most unfinished games released to the public save for "seed" perhaps.
Heh! I remember reading the beta forums at work one day. The prior night I had a CTD three times while trying to use a shuttle, and the next day I was seeing posts stating that the game wasn't going to be delayed. That was the exact point that I decided that I wasn't going to purchase the game at launch. I don't remember if there was a pre-order, if there was I cancelled it.
It seems that ALOT of the complaints are aimed at the combat mechanics, and even now SOE are making it easier to target your foe. Its called compromising mate. Alot of players love this new mechanic and i understand that alot of players absolutely hate it. The key is to meet somewhere at the middle and not camp at one end of the extreme like most people on this forum are doing.
Actually, the key is to actually fix your combat mechanics, not replace them. That is the big reason that I doubt I'll ever come back to SWG. As long as you are required to have your mouse on the target (and I don't believe that is changing) for the ground game, I will not enjoy it. I hope that there will be players that enjoy the new combat system whenever it is finished, and if there are then I hope they thank all of you beta testers that funded the project.
I strongly believe that swg could be the best mmo ever in the hands of dedicated players.
It is not up to the players to make SWG the best MMO ever, that is in the hands of the developers. Considering that the developers have a track record showing massive declines in subscriptions, I doubt it will ever happen.
Actually, I think their biggest mistake was listening to players (either people playing SWG or WOW, take your pick).
thats it for me, im off to bed
ok so ... swg back in the day 300k subs ...
swg now 50k subs ( this is a generous figure i dont even know if swg has this many)
so 250k dont like the new combat system ...
50k do ( again a generous figure many just play the game because its star wars )
so the combat mechanics would have to swing waaaay towards what the 250k players liked for it to be a true compromise
I just don't see why you are going to argue with another player about an issue such as this . Only SOE can do what you and many others demand , The only thing a current player can argue this point with is ." Hey give feedback and help reach a middle ground " . That is all anyone can do at this point . And it is not even guaranteed that will help . In some cases it is arguable as of late that feedback does go somewhere , Other than an all out rollback . It (Seems ) the devs are willing to work with their current subscibers to better "their" vision of the game . It is not hard to see what that vision is , Given the many statements made over the last few months . They want a console / casual friendly action oriented mmo . Which really has yet to be made so far in this genre of gaming .
I have always held the belief that any game , can be a good game given enough time . Look at EQ2 for example , or SOR . This has nothing to do with understanding or not , That doing what has been done with a game in live service for almost 3 years . Is questionable and quite moronic . But it has been done and it is about half a year later . It has been over a year since the original changes . Honestly it seems all of what seven or eight years ? Of this games development has been all for nothing . Not one of the systems / versions has trully paid off for the developers .
IMO it is their right to try and fullfil the potential of this game , Given for us the old players . Or the "new" , The trademark deserves a good game . Can SOe make one ? Sure they can it may not be your or my cup of tea , But it is entirely possible .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Really? What exactly did it stand for?
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Just a reaeeeeally reaaaalllly bad chat room you pay 15 bucks a month to play.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
It stood for Smed's Deli of cold cuts!
Just a reaeeeeally reaaaalllly bad chat room you pay 15 bucks a month to play.
Find me a better Star Wars chatroom for the money.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
It stood for Smed's Deli of cold cuts!
Egad! NOW I see why everyone misses pre-CU so much!!
...I'm hungry.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Other games have hundreds of different paths or stories to follow that overlap and run together. SWG has 1.
I remember reading the ads for ToOW. One of the things they said was "...Over 50 new quests." I then look at other games releasing expansions around the sametime and they are advertising numbers like "over 750 new quests" or "150 new storylines" and I think to myself "You know SOE, you might want to keep that quest thing a secret."
Kai
Just to be off sub and ignorant of this post because its a bs post anyhow lol ,
I think we made our own new swg offical forums here by now
Now all we need is REAL STAR WARS mmo to play and we'd be set baby WOOT!
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
I agree with most of everything in this post piirg.. I disagree though about the vocal minority statement. We tried our best to get SOE to listen to what needed to be fixed. Instead they pushed out expansion after expansion instead of fixing what needed to be fixed. In the beggining the bugs could of been managable. Instead they just added insult to injury by pushing out unfuinshied publishes / expansions. I surmize that had they "fixed" things in the beggining then we wouldnt be where we are now. The "vocal minority" wanted the game fixed.. not changed to fit their needs as you state.
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Wow.. not sure what the hell happened there...
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/
There you go, officially licensed and everything. Have fun!
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Same here. Promises, promises, promises.
Kind of remainds me of chitterlings. Just keep eating them you will learn to like it
For all of you who dont know what Chitterlings are, they are deep fried hog guts.
Support Bacteria, its the only culture some people have.
Heck no!
I've given them 3 years to get their shite in order....
And the only thing I've seen is a downgrade of a good game into a mediocre game....
I've seen better free games than what SWG currently is. So they get no more time from me.
* special note for fanboys: THIS POST IS ONLY A JOKE. KTHX.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Lol!
Can you edit that post?
The problem wasnt that SWG PreCU was boring. I agree it was. The dev's never made a serious effort to balance or add the content we asked for. Instead of fixing the game they brought out expansions. Shouldnt have to pay more money for content. We asked for regular profession revamps instead they revamped Jedi over and over.
SWG failed not because it was a bad concept in general. SWG failed since the dev's never finished the game. They never fine tuned combat. They never even attempted to balance the unhittable melee stackers or godlike composite TK clones.
SWG never had a chance to mature. I can only imagine the state of the game had they actually attempted to finish it instead of milking more money out of subscribers with buggy expansions. Why use man hours to finish something when they can just use those hours to make something else for you to buy?
/sigh
Marking on my calendar as this being the one day where I agree with pirrg on a few things. However, the title is where I would like to point a few things out.
Just Give It Some Time.
SOE coined this phrase a few years back - they may own the rights to it as it is their unofficial motto. This give it some more TIME concept may well have worked back in the day when there was slim mmorpg pickings but we are standing at the advent of what may well be the highest point of the mmorpg era. Arguably, after this round - everything may well be in decline. At any rate, in the face of all of this upcoming competition - there isn't room for extended forgiveness for near beta play by the players. SOE may have the wallets to keep this game under development without the numbers but that won't cut it when other games start rising on the charts. Despite the rumors - there are a finite number of players.
One of SOE's grievous sins was to ignore that word of mouth is the best advertising in this market. Changing midstream at the expense of vets and their subscriptions left this game with a very bad black eye. Worse still, allowing THIS much TIME to pass to make the replacement system enjoyable. Worse still, they are asking the lot of us for "more time". While the WoWs and the EVEs shatter records and expand into new frontiers all the while keeping their player base mostly intact - SWG is using thread and needle to replace appendages. I will agree that they are trying to improve things but I think it is too little too late. They may well end up with a great game in the end - but that is the problem. It will be the end as it will be outmoded, antiquated and gone the way of the elder games.
TIME is valuable and precious to each of us here. There are other companies and games that seem to appreciate my TIME more than SOE does as they voted me obsolete and expendable. So in the end, the only TIME I am willing to give them is the time I spend here hoping for a miracle all the while waiting on a replacement.
imho, these calls for "balance", and the lame brains at SOE listening to these cries are what landed us where we are today (a broken game)
WHY should a CH be "balanced" against a Rifleman? WHY should TK be "balanced" against a Ranger? i dont believe balance in MMORPG's does/should exist. its kinda the whole point to an MMORPG to have DIVERSE profession which compliment each other in combat. kinda like the rock, paper, scissors concept.
also, if you and 10 of your friends couldnt take down a jedi, you just plain sucked. i could hold my own against most jedi w/ my Fencer/Doctor. and if i had a friend or two with me, that jedi was in serious trouble. To anyone who says any profession should be able to kill jedi, i say go watch the films, and read the novels. i didnt grow up idolizing jedi b/c they were just like every other proff.
Perhaps we should all run down to our local supermarket and raise hell cuz the apples arent "balanced" with the oranges.
SWG ADDICT...clean since the NGE
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.