Originally posted by ownth3c0w I am looking through ratings in games and all I see is "WoW is a waste of money","WoW is the most stupid game I have ever sen!", "This game will definately blow WoW out of the water"... and so on.I play WoW, and I think it is really good. Graphics are corny, but easy to play with. Community is good from what I have seen. Grinding is fun! (Yes, it is.)I just want to know.. what is it with people against WoW these days?
What someone likes someone else hates. The best part about being human is that we are not all the same.
Originally posted by FlamingIce It's cool to hate mainstream.
it seems someone gets it.
The funny thing is people who don't play WoW will focus quite a bit of energy, slamming the game and it's users. They rarely talk about the game they play. We see stuff like "WOW is crappy" or "Anyone playing this game is a big poopyheaded freaky immature bird brain." Go to the WOW boards and those players are talking about......WOW.
There are some that truely don'y like the game. Don't like the ease of everything. These people like to be challenged and they don't find it in this game (this is why I don't play). Some don't like how it's mostly a casual game until you get to the upper levels and it turns into a different game.
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by ownth3c0w I am looking through ratings in games and all I see is "WoW is a waste of money","WoW is the most stupid game I have ever sen!", "This game will definately blow WoW out of the water"... and so on.
I play WoW, and I think it is really good. Graphics are corny, but easy to play with. Community is good from what I have seen. Grinding is fun! (Yes, it is.)
I just want to know.. what is it with people against WoW these days?
you probably like it, because it's made with YOU in mind specifically...
Username:
ownth3c0w
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If you honnestly fail to see WoW has not been created with a target age group in mind, then I suggest you NEVER study economics. or are you one of the many haters that think every WoW player is some kind of retard because you had bad experience in general chat?
Originally posted by damian7 you probably like it, because it's made with YOU in mind specifically... Username:ownth3c0wRank:Novice Member Member Since:June 7, 2006 Last Login:June 7, 2006 Total Posts:4 Real Name: Age:
13 Gender:Male
WTG, Damian, you've gone from shit-stirring to generalisation. How dare 13 year olds play video games! Whatrever will we do?
WTG, Damian, you've gone from shit-stirring to generalisation. How dare 13 year olds play video games! Whatrever will we do?
well it seems you excel at trolling. who IS wow's audience? if it were shooting for adults, it'd be higher rated on the esrb. if it were shooting for experienced people, the game would be challenging. it's got pretty colors and cartoonish characters (vice having more realistic looking toons to play). blizznet is who it drew it's largest initial chunk of players from -- anyone going to contest that blizznet wasn't/isn't full of kids?
maybe you just need to get a refill on your hater-aid and step away for a bit with your uber-nastiness.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by qotsa Originally posted by FlamingIce It's cool to hate mainstream.
it seems someone gets it.
The funny thing is people who don't play WoW will focus quite a bit of energy, slamming the game and it's users. They rarely talk about the game they play. We see stuff like "WOW is crappy" or "Anyone playing this game is a big poopyheaded freaky immature bird brain." Go to the WOW boards and those players are talking about......WOW.
There are some that truely don'y like the game. Don't like the ease of everything. These people like to be challenged and they don't find it in this game (this is why I don't play). Some don't like how it's mostly a casual game until you get to the upper levels and it turns into a different game.
some people get tired of reading posts on every forum they read about how wow is the greatest game known to man.
i mean, kaplan's mom has 2 60s and a lvl 40, so this game must be the best ever~!! wonder if he tells his mom she should learn to raid...
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Ulujain WTG, Damian, you've gone from shit-stirring to generalisation. How dare 13 year olds play video games! Whatrever will we do? well it seems you excel at trolling. who IS wow's audience? if it were shooting for adults, it'd be higher rated on the esrb. if it were shooting for experienced people, the game would be challenging. it's got pretty colors and cartoonish characters (vice having more realistic looking toons to play). blizznet is who it drew it's largest initial chunk of players from -- anyone going to contest that blizznet wasn't/isn't full of kids?maybe you just need to get a refill on your hater-aid and step away for a bit with your uber-nastiness.
So you don't like WoW.
Why slam people that do? I've never played it and I probably never will but I doubt I'll slam someone for liking it, and even more so, I doubt I'll slam someone for being 13 and liking it.
To sort of answer your question, WoW's target audience is people that were sick of end-game EQ. Hell, just look at various EQ uberguild forums - most of these guy's were in WoW's beta and tested WoW's end game. I'm sure not too many of them were 13.
Many of the target audience were people who played the RTS Warcrafts and Starcrafts - and they number in the millions.
Wow has some great things going for it. Imo the best is the gameplay itself. By that I mean virtually no lag and a very nice playability. There are some other great things about WoW too, but the playability is what kept me going. I have stopped playing it now, but if I can find a more "realistic" and less humorous MMO to play that played as well as WoW, I would be hooked for a long time.
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Ulujain
WTG, Damian, you've gone from shit-stirring to generalisation. How dare 13 year olds play video games! Whatrever will we do?
well it seems you excel at trolling. who IS wow's audience? if it were shooting for adults, it'd be higher rated on the esrb. if it were shooting for experienced people, the game would be challenging. it's got pretty colors and cartoonish characters (vice having more realistic looking toons to play). blizznet is who it drew it's largest initial chunk of players from -- anyone going to contest that blizznet wasn't/isn't full of kids?
maybe you just need to get a refill on your hater-aid and step away for a bit with your uber-nastiness.
WoW´s target were people who want to have a fun time, WoWs target were fans of the warcraft genré they never had a certain age as target. the reason ESRB´s rating is lower is because it has no extreme violence. WoW did that because they target ALL ages, not just adults. the ESRB rating is the minimum. WoW has a cartoony style, oh dear, it MUST be for kids now, Everquest 2 has a cartoony style, so it MUST be for kids, Lineage 2 has a cartoony/anime style, so it MUST be for kids. I'm sure some adults don't like the cartoony style, fine, I know a lot more that don't mind the cartoony style at all. it fits in the warcraft series.
also, could somebody finally explain to me why WoW is less challenging then other MMO's? I only noticed WoW's leveling goes a lot faster. but I never found any MMORPG a challenge. I always could play with my eyes closed if I wanted to.
WoW´s target were people who want to have a fun time, WoWs target were fans of the warcraft genré they never had a certain age as target. the reason ESRB´s rating is lower is because it has no extreme violence. WoW did that because they target ALL ages, not just adults. the ESRB rating is the minimum. WoW has a cartoony style, oh dear, it MUST be for kids now, Everquest 2 has a cartoony style, so it MUST be for kids, Lineage 2 has a cartoony/anime style, so it MUST be for kids. I'm sure some adults don't like the cartoony style, fine, I know a lot more that don't mind the cartoony style at all. it fits in the warcraft series.
also, could somebody finally explain to me why WoW is less challenging then other MMO's? I only noticed WoW's leveling goes a lot faster. but I never found any MMORPG a challenge. I always could play with my eyes closed if I wanted to.
the other points are obvious to anyone that's read even just parts of this one thread, well other than fanbois, they just ignore everything that isn't from god.
i'd like to address the challenge part.
death, xp penalties and item loss
say you're about to die in wow. don't care what from - pvp, pve, you just fell off a cliff. what are your thoughts? *crap i have to run all the way back to my body* if there's not someone there that can rez. or maybe it's *crap, i'll have to repair soon cuz my items are close to being red*.
now, compare just this one aspect of the game (which has a much larger effect on the game itself than you would first believe), to other games. in other games if you die, you might lose items permanently (looted by mobs or players), OR your items might suffer permanent damage, eventually to the point where they can't be repaired.
now if you compare that last statement to wow, and say wow has it - shut up, you have no idea what you're talking about.
in wow, your sword gets to say 1/75 durability, take it to an npc, boom 75/75 durability. in other games, your sword gets down to 1/75 durability, you repair it VERY WELL, it's now at 70/70 durability, you repair it POORLY and it's now 60/60 durability. eventually you WILL have to replace this sword. not because you've just gotten some new uber sword to replace it, but because the thing is broken and completely unusable from this point forward 0/0 durability if it doesn't just fall apart and cease to exist.
so in other games, if you lose all your goodies, or lose parts of them, because you keep dying and dying and dying -- you get penalized -- you lose items.
also,in a number of games you will also incur some sort of xp debt/loss upon death. in wow, you have 'rested' xp, which the only way you lose it is well, you don't lose it, it just keeps getting used as you kill mobs until it's gone.
PVP.
now, consider that many games have pvp. you fight the enemy, you die, you lose some (or all) of your stuff, you rest and fight another day. some games allow you to take over towns/outposts and such and hold them for your side/faction/guild/whatever; thusly changing the landscape and environment of the game.
in wow, well you might find some moronic lvl 60 bored and out killing lvl 10s cuz it's cool and not boring. zomgwtfbbq whatever. that's it. nothing for you to take over. kaplan got tired of players raiding enemy cities so now when you attack the enemy guards multiply and get unbeatable bosses or whatever to help defend. great job there, jazzy jeff. same dude wonders why no one does outdoor pvp -- brilliant!
just the couple of things i've listed make games more challenging. you have to think, "is it really worth dying for?"
or take something like maybe eve for example. i believe some of the corps in eve number in the thousands and control big chunks of space (not big in overall size of the playing field, but big compared to chunks of space held by other corps). you have wars, where expensive ships are lost, expensive clones have to be paid for (in case you get podded), bases might be lost and consequently, you could lose parts of that big chunk of space your corp controls.
in wow, you can go do the same raid instance against the exact same bosses/dungeon layout as the other literal 75 times you've done it.
which do you consider to honestly be more of a challenge?
edited to correct typo.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Most people don’t hate WoW. What happens is people who don’t particularly dislike WoW mention some real problem with the game, then the fanbois who can’t accept that WoW isn’t the ubar all time best MMO jump into the fray forcing people to explain to them at length the problems with the game.
Originally posted by lomiller Most people don’t hate WoW. What happens is people who don’t particularly dislike WoW mention some real problem with the game, then the fanbois who can’t accept that WoW isn’t the ubar all time best MMO jump into the fray forcing people to explain to them at length the problems with the game.
I have never played WoW but i here it is good, i may get it sometime but atm i am playing free online games like Thang Global and i am waiting for Deicide Online wich will be in Open-Beta next week . Respect,
I'll be honest, I can't stand WoW. I hate the cartoonish graphics, the gameplay, more than anything else the simplicity of everything, the quests that make you feel like someone is holding your hand and guiding you through the game, the all consuming importance of items and gear, the grind itself. That's just my opinion though, it has nothing to do with what everyone else thinks. Hell, I wish I could play the game, I have friends that play who I don't see very often.
That said, there's nothing wrong with WoW. I am simply not the audience the game targets, so no biggie. All those things I don't like, the majority of gamers seem to enjoy. Wether thats because I'm farther along, having spent my time chasing items and grinding levels and now expect other, 'better' things from a game, or because I'm just a hard to please pain in the butt, I don't know
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Gameloading
WoW´s target were people who want to have a fun time, WoWs target were fans of the warcraft genré they never had a certain age as target. the reason ESRB´s rating is lower is because it has no extreme violence. WoW did that because they target ALL ages, not just adults. the ESRB rating is the minimum. WoW has a cartoony style, oh dear, it MUST be for kids now, Everquest 2 has a cartoony style, so it MUST be for kids, Lineage 2 has a cartoony/anime style, so it MUST be for kids. I'm sure some adults don't like the cartoony style, fine, I know a lot more that don't mind the cartoony style at all. it fits in the warcraft series.
also, could somebody finally explain to me why WoW is less challenging then other MMO's? I only noticed WoW's leveling goes a lot faster. but I never found any MMORPG a challenge. I always could play with my eyes closed if I wanted to.
the other points are obvious to anyone that's read even just parts of this one thread, well other than fanbois, they just ignore everything that isn't from god.
i'd like to address the challenge part.
death, xp penalties and item loss
say you're about to die in wow. don't care what from - pvp, pve, you just fell off a cliff. what are your thoughts? *crap i have to run all the way back to my body* if there's not someone there that can rez. or maybe it's *crap, i'll have to repair soon cuz my items are close to being red*.
now, compare just this one aspect of the game (which has a much larger effect on the game itself than you would first believe), to other games. in other games if you die, you might lose items permanently (looted by mobs or players), OR your items might suffer permanent damage, eventually to the point where they can't be repaired.
now if you compare that last statement to wow, and say wow has it - shut up, you have no idea what you're talking about.
in wow, your sword gets to say 1/75 durability, take it to an npc, boom 75/75 durability. in other games, your sword gets down to 1/75 durability, you repair it VERY WELL, it's now at 70/70 durability, you repair it POORLY and it's now 60/60 durability. eventually you WILL have to replace this sword. not because you've just gotten some new uber sword to replace it, but because the thing is broken and completely unusable from this point forward 0/0 durability if it doesn't just fall apart and cease to exist.
so in other games, if you lose all your goodies, or lose parts of them, because you keep dying and dying and dying -- you get penalized -- you lose items.
also,in a number of games you will also incur some sort of xp debt/loss upon death. in wow, you have 'rested' xp, which the only way you lose it is well, you don't lose it, it just keeps getting used as you kill mobs until it's gone.
PVP.
now, consider that many games have pvp. you fight the enemy, you die, you lose some (or all) of your stuff, you rest and fight another day. some games allow you to take over towns/outposts and such and hold them for your side/faction/guild/whatever; thusly changing the landscape and environment of the game.
in wow, well you might find some moronic lvl 60 bored and out killing lvl 10s cuz it's cool and not boring. zomgwtfbbq whatever. that's it. nothing for you to take over. kaplan got tired of players raiding enemy cities so now when you attack the enemy guards multiply and get unbeatable bosses or whatever to help defend. great job there, jazzy jeff. same dude wonders why no one does outdoor pvp -- brilliant!
just the couple of things i've listed make games more challenging. you have to think, "is it really worth dying for?"
or take something like maybe eve for example. i believe some of the corps in eve number in the thousands and control big chunks of space (not big in overall size of the playing field, but big compared to chunks of space held by other corps). you have wars, where expensive ships are lost, expensive clones have to be paid for (in case you get podded), bases might be lost and consequently, you could lose parts of that big chunk of space your corp controls.
in wow, you can go do the same raid instance against the exact same bosses/dungeon layout as the other literal 75 times you've done it.
which do you consider to honestly be more of a challenge?
Those of you who are claiming that those of us who don't like wow only dislike it because we're trying to be cool by hating what is mainstream really, really need to get over yourselves.
I stated very clearly already why I no longer enjoy it: they took a game that is clearly designed for easy, casual play, with simple game mechanics, an mmo-lite (nothing wrong with that!) and then tried to mix it in with "hardcore" gameplay like 40 person raids in instances that can take several hours to clear. Combining simplistic game mechanics with long, drawn out, repetitive gameplay is, for me, boring. It's that simple.
WoW started going downhill when Blizzard lost their original focus on creating an accessable, scaled down MMO that could be played casually. Now, it's a mishmash of casual and hardcore ideas that weren't put together well and the upper levels of the game (Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, AQ, Zul Gurub, etc) are a tedious mix of boredom and frustration.
Originally posted by ownth3c0w I am looking through ratings in games and all I see is "WoW is a waste of money","WoW is the most stupid game I have ever sen!", "This game will definately blow WoW out of the water"... and so on.
I play WoW, and I think it is really good. Graphics are corny, but easy to play with. Community is good from what I have seen. Grinding is fun! (Yes, it is.)
I just want to know.. what is it with people against WoW these days?
Community good? Are you sure your talking about WoW?
Yup yup I feel the same way as most of the post up there... I dont hate WoW it's just not the game for me. Guess it might really depend on what game you came from, WoW is perfect for people from like EQ and stuff where most of the game is PvE. I on the other hand started out in DAOC, and nothing yet has compare to it in form of PvP fun. WoW would be better if you can just take over some cities and defend it off the horde trying to take it back or something. Being able to change the landscape in PvP makes it more fun, it doesnt' become so boring because you honestly dont know which way the fight will go. Instance PvP gets boring cause you would have already learned the whole map after a few times, as for the constance change of hands of town lets say you might have to avoid a town's guard to go help defend a city you have that's cut off of supply :P see it get more fun.
AND long a** instances suck... and the fact that you can spend a week raiding a place and not get what you want or even a chance of getting it is even worst. I rather they say yea you have to collect this and that and you know it'll take you so long to do so... a goal to work to rather then not knowing.
I like wow, but I just love the pvp aspect of it. The only instances I do are MC/BWL once a week and I just get on sometimes just to pvp. The pvp in the game rocks, and I love owning ppl and making them scream irl (That makes me happy).
Originally posted by beautyisin Popular equates to bad, simple really.
And that exact same silly counter argument is used over and over and over and over. This train of throught is apparently quite popular. And it really is bad logic.
Wait a minute...so maybe there IS some sense to this theory after all!
Originally posted by FlamingIce It's cool to hate mainstream.
That's not what it is.
It's because most of the people who come to this site have played other MMO's. Some for years before WoW came out.
WoW is a scaled down, streamlined, stuck on easy, MMO. That's fine for most of the people who buy games. But people who have played a lot of MMO's aren't looking for that.
We're looking for something different. Not just a rehash of ideas from other games with an easy interface and endless raiding.
If people were saying they didn't like it just because they want to buck the trend, then they couldn't list specific reasons why they dislike the game. Yet there are very specific reasons that people can list.
Originally posted by reavo Originally posted by FlamingIce It's cool to hate mainstream.
That's not what it is.
It's because most of the people who come to this site have played other MMO's. Some for years before WoW came out.
WoW is a scaled down, streamlined, stuck on easy, MMO. That's fine for most of the people who buy games. But people who have played a lot of MMO's aren't looking for that.
We're looking for something different. Not just a rehash of ideas from other games with an easy interface and endless raiding.
If people were saying they didn't like it just because they want to buck the trend, then they couldn't list specific reasons why they dislike the game. Yet there are very specific reasons that people can list.
For me, I don't like the impact it appears to be having on the industry as a whole (read: more and more and MORE fantasy games, easier games with no death penalty, no realism, no consequences, etc.).
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Gameloading
WoW´s target were people who want to have a fun time, WoWs target were fans of the warcraft genré they never had a certain age as target. the reason ESRB´s rating is lower is because it has no extreme violence. WoW did that because they target ALL ages, not just adults. the ESRB rating is the minimum. WoW has a cartoony style, oh dear, it MUST be for kids now, Everquest 2 has a cartoony style, so it MUST be for kids, Lineage 2 has a cartoony/anime style, so it MUST be for kids. I'm sure some adults don't like the cartoony style, fine, I know a lot more that don't mind the cartoony style at all. it fits in the warcraft series.
also, could somebody finally explain to me why WoW is less challenging then other MMO's? I only noticed WoW's leveling goes a lot faster. but I never found any MMORPG a challenge. I always could play with my eyes closed if I wanted to.
the other points are obvious to anyone that's read even just parts of this one thread, well other than fanbois, they just ignore everything that isn't from god.
i'd like to address the challenge part.
death, xp penalties and item loss
say you're about to die in wow. don't care what from - pvp, pve, you just fell off a cliff. what are your thoughts? *crap i have to run all the way back to my body* if there's not someone there that can rez. or maybe it's *crap, i'll have to repair soon cuz my items are close to being red*.
now, compare just this one aspect of the game (which has a much larger effect on the game itself than you would first believe), to other games. in other games if you die, you might lose items permanently (looted by mobs or players), OR your items might suffer permanent damage, eventually to the point where they can't be repaired.
now if you compare that last statement to wow, and say wow has it - shut up, you have no idea what you're talking about.
in wow, your sword gets to say 1/75 durability, take it to an npc, boom 75/75 durability. in other games, your sword gets down to 1/75 durability, you repair it VERY WELL, it's now at 70/70 durability, you repair it POORLY and it's now 60/60 durability. eventually you WILL have to replace this sword. not because you've just gotten some new uber sword to replace it, but because the thing is broken and completely unusable from this point forward 0/0 durability if it doesn't just fall apart and cease to exist.
so in other games, if you lose all your goodies, or lose parts of them, because you keep dying and dying and dying -- you get penalized -- you lose items.
also,in a number of games you will also incur some sort of xp debt/loss upon death. in wow, you have 'rested' xp, which the only way you lose it is well, you don't lose it, it just keeps getting used as you kill mobs until it's gone.
PVP.
now, consider that many games have pvp. you fight the enemy, you die, you lose some (or all) of your stuff, you rest and fight another day. some games allow you to take over towns/outposts and such and hold them for your side/faction/guild/whatever; thusly changing the landscape and environment of the game.
in wow, well you might find some moronic lvl 60 bored and out killing lvl 10s cuz it's cool and not boring. zomgwtfbbq whatever. that's it. nothing for you to take over. kaplan got tired of players raiding enemy cities so now when you attack the enemy guards multiply and get unbeatable bosses or whatever to help defend. great job there, jazzy jeff. same dude wonders why no one does outdoor pvp -- brilliant!
just the couple of things i've listed make games more challenging. you have to think, "is it really worth dying for?"
or take something like maybe eve for example. i believe some of the corps in eve number in the thousands and control big chunks of space (not big in overall size of the playing field, but big compared to chunks of space held by other corps). you have wars, where expensive ships are lost, expensive clones have to be paid for (in case you get podded), bases might be lost and consequently, you could lose parts of that big chunk of space your corp controls.
in wow, you can go do the same raid instance against the exact same bosses/dungeon layout as the other literal 75 times you've done it.
which do you consider to honestly be more of a challenge?
edited to correct typo.
From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power. this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same thing.
From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power. this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same thing.
if Item loss is supposed to make the game harder, then I will remain my stance that there is NO mmorpg in the world that gives the player a challenge.
Originally posted by ownth3c0w I am looking through ratings in games and all I see is "WoW is a waste of money","WoW is the most stupid game I have ever sen!", "This game will definately blow WoW out of the water"... and so on.
I play WoW, and I think it is really good. Graphics are corny, but easy to play with. Community is good from what I have seen. Grinding is fun! (Yes, it is.)
I just want to know.. what is it with people against WoW these days?
I enjoyed playing World of Warcraft. I return to play occasionally. I like the mmorpg, but I am looking for a little different experience when it comes to mmorpgs. I like a difficult mmorpg, some may call hardcore, although I am not a hardcore gamer. I appreciate Everquest and the more hardcore features like the death penalty, corpse runs, etc.
I am looking forward to Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, which sounds like it will be exactly what I am looking for, but I gladly play WoW sometimes and have fun with it.
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The funny thing is people who don't play WoW will focus quite a bit of energy, slamming the game and it's users. They rarely talk about the game they play. We see stuff like "WOW is crappy" or "Anyone playing this game is a big poopyheaded freaky immature bird brain." Go to the WOW boards and those players are talking about......WOW.
There are some that truely don'y like the game. Don't like the ease of everything. These people like to be challenged and they don't find it in this game (this is why I don't play). Some don't like how it's mostly a casual game until you get to the upper levels and it turns into a different game.
If you honnestly fail to see WoW has not been created with a target age group in mind, then I suggest you NEVER study economics. or are you one of the many haters that think every WoW player is some kind of retard because you had bad experience in general chat?
WTG, Damian, you've gone from shit-stirring to generalisation. How dare 13 year olds play video games! Whatrever will we do?
WTG, Damian, you've gone from shit-stirring to generalisation. How dare 13 year olds play video games! Whatrever will we do?
well it seems you excel at trolling. who IS wow's audience? if it were shooting for adults, it'd be higher rated on the esrb. if it were shooting for experienced people, the game would be challenging. it's got pretty colors and cartoonish characters (vice having more realistic looking toons to play). blizznet is who it drew it's largest initial chunk of players from -- anyone going to contest that blizznet wasn't/isn't full of kids?
maybe you just need to get a refill on your hater-aid and step away for a bit with your uber-nastiness.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
The funny thing is people who don't play WoW will focus quite a bit of energy, slamming the game and it's users. They rarely talk about the game they play. We see stuff like "WOW is crappy" or "Anyone playing this game is a big poopyheaded freaky immature bird brain." Go to the WOW boards and those players are talking about......WOW.
There are some that truely don'y like the game. Don't like the ease of everything. These people like to be challenged and they don't find it in this game (this is why I don't play). Some don't like how it's mostly a casual game until you get to the upper levels and it turns into a different game.
some people get tired of reading posts on every forum they read about how wow is the greatest game known to man.
i mean, kaplan's mom has 2 60s and a lvl 40, so this game must be the best ever~!! wonder if he tells his mom she should learn to raid...
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
So you don't like WoW.
Why slam people that do? I've never played it and I probably never will but I doubt I'll slam someone for liking it, and even more so, I doubt I'll slam someone for being 13 and liking it.
To sort of answer your question, WoW's target audience is people that were sick of end-game EQ. Hell, just look at various EQ uberguild forums - most of these guy's were in WoW's beta and tested WoW's end game. I'm sure not too many of them were 13.
Many of the target audience were people who played the RTS Warcrafts and Starcrafts - and they number in the millions.
WTG, Damian, you've gone from shit-stirring to generalisation. How dare 13 year olds play video games! Whatrever will we do?
well it seems you excel at trolling. who IS wow's audience? if it were shooting for adults, it'd be higher rated on the esrb. if it were shooting for experienced people, the game would be challenging. it's got pretty colors and cartoonish characters (vice having more realistic looking toons to play). blizznet is who it drew it's largest initial chunk of players from -- anyone going to contest that blizznet wasn't/isn't full of kids?
maybe you just need to get a refill on your hater-aid and step away for a bit with your uber-nastiness.
WoW´s target were people who want to have a fun time, WoWs target were fans of the warcraft genré they never had a certain age as target. the reason ESRB´s rating is lower is because it has no extreme violence. WoW did that because they target ALL ages, not just adults. the ESRB rating is the minimum. WoW has a cartoony style, oh dear, it MUST be for kids now, Everquest 2 has a cartoony style, so it MUST be for kids, Lineage 2 has a cartoony/anime style, so it MUST be for kids. I'm sure some adults don't like the cartoony style, fine, I know a lot more that don't mind the cartoony style at all. it fits in the warcraft series.
also, could somebody finally explain to me why WoW is less challenging then other MMO's? I only noticed WoW's leveling goes a lot faster. but I never found any MMORPG a challenge. I always could play with my eyes closed if I wanted to.
Popular equates to bad, simple really.
WoW´s target were people who want to have a fun time, WoWs target were fans of the warcraft genré they never had a certain age as target. the reason ESRB´s rating is lower is because it has no extreme violence. WoW did that because they target ALL ages, not just adults. the ESRB rating is the minimum. WoW has a cartoony style, oh dear, it MUST be for kids now, Everquest 2 has a cartoony style, so it MUST be for kids, Lineage 2 has a cartoony/anime style, so it MUST be for kids. I'm sure some adults don't like the cartoony style, fine, I know a lot more that don't mind the cartoony style at all. it fits in the warcraft series.
also, could somebody finally explain to me why WoW is less challenging then other MMO's? I only noticed WoW's leveling goes a lot faster. but I never found any MMORPG a challenge. I always could play with my eyes closed if I wanted to.
the other points are obvious to anyone that's read even just parts of this one thread, well other than fanbois, they just ignore everything that isn't from god.
i'd like to address the challenge part.
death, xp penalties and item loss
say you're about to die in wow. don't care what from - pvp, pve, you just fell off a cliff. what are your thoughts? *crap i have to run all the way back to my body* if there's not someone there that can rez. or maybe it's *crap, i'll have to repair soon cuz my items are close to being red*.
now, compare just this one aspect of the game (which has a much larger effect on the game itself than you would first believe), to other games. in other games if you die, you might lose items permanently (looted by mobs or players), OR your items might suffer permanent damage, eventually to the point where they can't be repaired.
now if you compare that last statement to wow, and say wow has it - shut up, you have no idea what you're talking about.
in wow, your sword gets to say 1/75 durability, take it to an npc, boom 75/75 durability. in other games, your sword gets down to 1/75 durability, you repair it VERY WELL, it's now at 70/70 durability, you repair it POORLY and it's now 60/60 durability. eventually you WILL have to replace this sword. not because you've just gotten some new uber sword to replace it, but because the thing is broken and completely unusable from this point forward 0/0 durability if it doesn't just fall apart and cease to exist.
so in other games, if you lose all your goodies, or lose parts of them, because you keep dying and dying and dying -- you get penalized -- you lose items.
also,in a number of games you will also incur some sort of xp debt/loss upon death. in wow, you have 'rested' xp, which the only way you lose it is well, you don't lose it, it just keeps getting used as you kill mobs until it's gone.
PVP.
now, consider that many games have pvp. you fight the enemy, you die, you lose some (or all) of your stuff, you rest and fight another day. some games allow you to take over towns/outposts and such and hold them for your side/faction/guild/whatever; thusly changing the landscape and environment of the game.
in wow, well you might find some moronic lvl 60 bored and out killing lvl 10s cuz it's cool and not boring. zomgwtfbbq whatever. that's it. nothing for you to take over. kaplan got tired of players raiding enemy cities so now when you attack the enemy guards multiply and get unbeatable bosses or whatever to help defend. great job there, jazzy jeff. same dude wonders why no one does outdoor pvp -- brilliant!
just the couple of things i've listed make games more challenging. you have to think, "is it really worth dying for?"
or take something like maybe eve for example. i believe some of the corps in eve number in the thousands and control big chunks of space (not big in overall size of the playing field, but big compared to chunks of space held by other corps). you have wars, where expensive ships are lost, expensive clones have to be paid for (in case you get podded), bases might be lost and consequently, you could lose parts of that big chunk of space your corp controls.
in wow, you can go do the same raid instance against the exact same bosses/dungeon layout as the other literal 75 times you've done it.
which do you consider to honestly be more of a challenge?
edited to correct typo.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Most people don’t hate WoW. What happens is people who don’t particularly dislike WoW mention some real problem with the game, then the fanbois who can’t accept that WoW isn’t the ubar all time best MMO jump into the fray forcing people to explain to them at length the problems with the game.
Respect,
(*$malli$*)
I'll be honest, I can't stand WoW. I hate the cartoonish graphics, the gameplay, more than anything else the simplicity of everything, the quests that make you feel like someone is holding your hand and guiding you through the game, the all consuming importance of items and gear, the grind itself. That's just my opinion though, it has nothing to do with what everyone else thinks. Hell, I wish I could play the game, I have friends that play who I don't see very often.
That said, there's nothing wrong with WoW. I am simply not the audience the game targets, so no biggie. All those things I don't like, the majority of gamers seem to enjoy. Wether thats because I'm farther along, having spent my time chasing items and grinding levels and now expect other, 'better' things from a game, or because I'm just a hard to please pain in the butt, I don't know
WoW´s target were people who want to have a fun time, WoWs target were fans of the warcraft genré they never had a certain age as target. the reason ESRB´s rating is lower is because it has no extreme violence. WoW did that because they target ALL ages, not just adults. the ESRB rating is the minimum. WoW has a cartoony style, oh dear, it MUST be for kids now, Everquest 2 has a cartoony style, so it MUST be for kids, Lineage 2 has a cartoony/anime style, so it MUST be for kids. I'm sure some adults don't like the cartoony style, fine, I know a lot more that don't mind the cartoony style at all. it fits in the warcraft series.
also, could somebody finally explain to me why WoW is less challenging then other MMO's? I only noticed WoW's leveling goes a lot faster. but I never found any MMORPG a challenge. I always could play with my eyes closed if I wanted to.
the other points are obvious to anyone that's read even just parts of this one thread, well other than fanbois, they just ignore everything that isn't from god.
i'd like to address the challenge part.
death, xp penalties and item loss
say you're about to die in wow. don't care what from - pvp, pve, you just fell off a cliff. what are your thoughts? *crap i have to run all the way back to my body* if there's not someone there that can rez. or maybe it's *crap, i'll have to repair soon cuz my items are close to being red*.
now, compare just this one aspect of the game (which has a much larger effect on the game itself than you would first believe), to other games. in other games if you die, you might lose items permanently (looted by mobs or players), OR your items might suffer permanent damage, eventually to the point where they can't be repaired.
now if you compare that last statement to wow, and say wow has it - shut up, you have no idea what you're talking about.
in wow, your sword gets to say 1/75 durability, take it to an npc, boom 75/75 durability. in other games, your sword gets down to 1/75 durability, you repair it VERY WELL, it's now at 70/70 durability, you repair it POORLY and it's now 60/60 durability. eventually you WILL have to replace this sword. not because you've just gotten some new uber sword to replace it, but because the thing is broken and completely unusable from this point forward 0/0 durability if it doesn't just fall apart and cease to exist.
so in other games, if you lose all your goodies, or lose parts of them, because you keep dying and dying and dying -- you get penalized -- you lose items.
also,in a number of games you will also incur some sort of xp debt/loss upon death. in wow, you have 'rested' xp, which the only way you lose it is well, you don't lose it, it just keeps getting used as you kill mobs until it's gone.
PVP.
now, consider that many games have pvp. you fight the enemy, you die, you lose some (or all) of your stuff, you rest and fight another day. some games allow you to take over towns/outposts and such and hold them for your side/faction/guild/whatever; thusly changing the landscape and environment of the game.
in wow, well you might find some moronic lvl 60 bored and out killing lvl 10s cuz it's cool and not boring. zomgwtfbbq whatever. that's it. nothing for you to take over. kaplan got tired of players raiding enemy cities so now when you attack the enemy guards multiply and get unbeatable bosses or whatever to help defend. great job there, jazzy jeff. same dude wonders why no one does outdoor pvp -- brilliant!
just the couple of things i've listed make games more challenging. you have to think, "is it really worth dying for?"
or take something like maybe eve for example. i believe some of the corps in eve number in the thousands and control big chunks of space (not big in overall size of the playing field, but big compared to chunks of space held by other corps). you have wars, where expensive ships are lost, expensive clones have to be paid for (in case you get podded), bases might be lost and consequently, you could lose parts of that big chunk of space your corp controls.
in wow, you can go do the same raid instance against the exact same bosses/dungeon layout as the other literal 75 times you've done it.
which do you consider to honestly be more of a challenge?
edited to correct typo.
QFT
I stated very clearly already why I no longer enjoy it: they took a game that is clearly designed for easy, casual play, with simple game mechanics, an mmo-lite (nothing wrong with that!) and then tried to mix it in with "hardcore" gameplay like 40 person raids in instances that can take several hours to clear. Combining simplistic game mechanics with long, drawn out, repetitive gameplay is, for me, boring. It's that simple.
WoW started going downhill when Blizzard lost their original focus on creating an accessable, scaled down MMO that could be played casually. Now, it's a mishmash of casual and hardcore ideas that weren't put together well and the upper levels of the game (Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, AQ, Zul Gurub, etc) are a tedious mix of boredom and frustration.
Yup yup I feel the same way as most of the post up there... I dont hate WoW it's just not the game for me. Guess it might really depend on what game you came from, WoW is perfect for people from like EQ and stuff where most of the game is PvE. I on the other hand started out in DAOC, and nothing yet has compare to it in form of PvP fun. WoW would be better if you can just take over some cities and defend it off the horde trying to take it back or something. Being able to change the landscape in PvP makes it more fun, it doesnt' become so boring because you honestly dont know which way the fight will go. Instance PvP gets boring cause you would have already learned the whole map after a few times, as for the constance change of hands of town lets say you might have to avoid a town's guard to go help defend a city you have that's cut off of supply :P see it get more fun.
AND long a** instances suck... and the fact that you can spend a week raiding a place and not get what you want or even a chance of getting it is even worst. I rather they say yea you have to collect this and that and you know it'll take you so long to do so... a goal to work to rather then not knowing.
Wait a minute...so maybe there IS some sense to this theory after all!
It's because most of the people who come to this site have played other MMO's. Some for years before WoW came out.
WoW is a scaled down, streamlined, stuck on easy, MMO. That's fine for most of the people who buy games. But people who have played a lot of MMO's aren't looking for that.
We're looking for something different. Not just a rehash of ideas from other games with an easy interface and endless raiding.
If people were saying they didn't like it just because they want to buck the trend, then they couldn't list specific reasons why they dislike the game. Yet there are very specific reasons that people can list.
It's because most of the people who come to this site have played other MMO's. Some for years before WoW came out.
WoW is a scaled down, streamlined, stuck on easy, MMO. That's fine for most of the people who buy games. But people who have played a lot of MMO's aren't looking for that.
We're looking for something different. Not just a rehash of ideas from other games with an easy interface and endless raiding.
If people were saying they didn't like it just because they want to buck the trend, then they couldn't list specific reasons why they dislike the game. Yet there are very specific reasons that people can list.
For me, I don't like the impact it appears to be having on the industry as a whole (read: more and more and MORE fantasy games, easier games with no death penalty, no realism, no consequences, etc.).
WoW´s target were people who want to have a fun time, WoWs target were fans of the warcraft genré they never had a certain age as target. the reason ESRB´s rating is lower is because it has no extreme violence. WoW did that because they target ALL ages, not just adults. the ESRB rating is the minimum. WoW has a cartoony style, oh dear, it MUST be for kids now, Everquest 2 has a cartoony style, so it MUST be for kids, Lineage 2 has a cartoony/anime style, so it MUST be for kids. I'm sure some adults don't like the cartoony style, fine, I know a lot more that don't mind the cartoony style at all. it fits in the warcraft series.
also, could somebody finally explain to me why WoW is less challenging then other MMO's? I only noticed WoW's leveling goes a lot faster. but I never found any MMORPG a challenge. I always could play with my eyes closed if I wanted to.
the other points are obvious to anyone that's read even just parts of this one thread, well other than fanbois, they just ignore everything that isn't from god.
i'd like to address the challenge part.
death, xp penalties and item loss
say you're about to die in wow. don't care what from - pvp, pve, you just fell off a cliff. what are your thoughts? *crap i have to run all the way back to my body* if there's not someone there that can rez. or maybe it's *crap, i'll have to repair soon cuz my items are close to being red*.
now, compare just this one aspect of the game (which has a much larger effect on the game itself than you would first believe), to other games. in other games if you die, you might lose items permanently (looted by mobs or players), OR your items might suffer permanent damage, eventually to the point where they can't be repaired.
now if you compare that last statement to wow, and say wow has it - shut up, you have no idea what you're talking about.
in wow, your sword gets to say 1/75 durability, take it to an npc, boom 75/75 durability. in other games, your sword gets down to 1/75 durability, you repair it VERY WELL, it's now at 70/70 durability, you repair it POORLY and it's now 60/60 durability. eventually you WILL have to replace this sword. not because you've just gotten some new uber sword to replace it, but because the thing is broken and completely unusable from this point forward 0/0 durability if it doesn't just fall apart and cease to exist.
so in other games, if you lose all your goodies, or lose parts of them, because you keep dying and dying and dying -- you get penalized -- you lose items.
also,in a number of games you will also incur some sort of xp debt/loss upon death. in wow, you have 'rested' xp, which the only way you lose it is well, you don't lose it, it just keeps getting used as you kill mobs until it's gone.
PVP.
now, consider that many games have pvp. you fight the enemy, you die, you lose some (or all) of your stuff, you rest and fight another day. some games allow you to take over towns/outposts and such and hold them for your side/faction/guild/whatever; thusly changing the landscape and environment of the game.
in wow, well you might find some moronic lvl 60 bored and out killing lvl 10s cuz it's cool and not boring. zomgwtfbbq whatever. that's it. nothing for you to take over. kaplan got tired of players raiding enemy cities so now when you attack the enemy guards multiply and get unbeatable bosses or whatever to help defend. great job there, jazzy jeff. same dude wonders why no one does outdoor pvp -- brilliant!
just the couple of things i've listed make games more challenging. you have to think, "is it really worth dying for?"
or take something like maybe eve for example. i believe some of the corps in eve number in the thousands and control big chunks of space (not big in overall size of the playing field, but big compared to chunks of space held by other corps). you have wars, where expensive ships are lost, expensive clones have to be paid for (in case you get podded), bases might be lost and consequently, you could lose parts of that big chunk of space your corp controls.
in wow, you can go do the same raid instance against the exact same bosses/dungeon layout as the other literal 75 times you've done it.
which do you consider to honestly be more of a challenge?
edited to correct typo.
From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power. this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same thing.From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power. this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same thing.
if Item loss is supposed to make the game harder, then I will remain my stance that there is NO mmorpg in the world that gives the player a challenge.
I enjoyed playing World of Warcraft. I return to play occasionally. I like the mmorpg, but I am looking for a little different experience when it comes to mmorpgs. I like a difficult mmorpg, some may call hardcore, although I am not a hardcore gamer. I appreciate Everquest and the more hardcore features like the death penalty, corpse runs, etc.
I am looking forward to Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, which sounds like it will be exactly what I am looking for, but I gladly play WoW sometimes and have fun with it.