WoW killed my dog, cat and my brother. It came over to my neighborhood and slaughtered the cat, laced the remains with cyanide and then fed it to my dog. Then 2 days later it went to my brother's house and eviscerated him.
That's why I hate WoW damnit! OK????? ITS EVIL!!!
On a more serious note: I don't hate WoW at all. I hate WoW players who think WoW is the "Best game" out there and refuse to even try other games before making that pronouncement. IMO DAOC is the 'best' MMORPG on the market, closely followed by EVE. But that's *my opinion* not a hard-fact.
"Best" is subjective. It varies from person to person.
WOW is absolutely 100% the most POPULAR MMORPG currently on the market. But Best? Not in this gamer's opinion.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by varius Originally posted by darktravesty We hate it because it's a piece of crap effectivly marketed to morons who constantly talk about it and call all other MMOs crap.
Exactly. Anyone who is happy playing WoW can go on ahead and keep playing WoW. Let them be ignorant. The reason so many people "greatly dislike" WoW is that there are so many MMO noobs who are playing WoW as their first MMO, who have never played Ultima Online or Shadowbane or Lineage or whatever, and they act as if they know all there is to know about MMOs. They think WoW is great simply because they are too stupid and ignorant to give any other games a try. The more they talk, the more they piss off real MMO gamers, which leads to the understandably large community of "WoW haters".
so I take it the mighty Varius, he who knows all about mmorpg´s, he! the one! is going to tell us a REAL mmorpg to play now?
In fact, thats what I'd like to hear from all the silly Wow haters. alright, you say we should go play another game. what game? go ahead, I'm waiting.
i think wow is a great game 1-59 for anyone wanting to get into a mmorpg.
What i dont like about wow is that they have gone against their own design with the raiding game, and its really hurting the funfactor if you dont choose to raid (read: most wow players).
If they had of stuck to the original vision of group content and world pvp wow would be perfect for me.
Whatever game the original designers of wow are making, im playing next.
Anything the current developers (Tigole) of wow are making will be trash so theres no need to go there. They are just living off of someone elses work, and doing a crappy job at it.
versus, losing a sword, having to get a craftsman to hook you up with a new one. versus mining and maybe a little hunting for other parts and making your own. versus
Exacly.looking for a craftsman: Go town, yell looking for craftsman Mining: Go to to mining spot, equip mining pick, click ore, wait Craft: click a few things in window menu's
Damian7, I take my words back. it truly requires skill. it requires deep thinking, planning and skill to do all these things. [/sacrasm]
sorry, but none of that requires skill. if you truly think that is called "skill" Then i suggest you drop gaming all together. it clearly isn't your thing. the things you mentioned make the game experience take LONGER, not harder.
also, the fact you compare a PvE raid to pvp town battles prove your just nothing more then a pathetic hater. get over yourself Damian7.
so I take it the mighty Varius, he who knows all about mmorpg´s, he! the one! is going to tell us a REAL mmorpg to play now?
In fact, thats what I'd like to hear from all the silly Wow haters. alright, you say we should go play another game. what game? go ahead, I'm waiting.
please, no. stay and play wow. please. this isn't reverse psychology. from reading your posts, wow IS your game. rock on brother.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Gameloading
so I take it the mighty Varius, he who knows all about mmorpg´s, he! the one! is going to tell us a REAL mmorpg to play now?
In fact, thats what I'd like to hear from all the silly Wow haters. alright, you say we should go play another game. what game? go ahead, I'm waiting.
please, no. stay and play wow. please. this isn't reverse psychology. from reading your posts, wow IS your game. rock on brother.
no no "Brother". I'd like to know . I'm sure an expert on the mmorpg genre like yourself can recommend all WoW players a better game. I mean, all WoW players are clearly ignorant. but we are saved now, Because damian7 knows what YOU like!
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Gameloading
so I take it the mighty Varius, he who knows all about mmorpg´s, he! the one! is going to tell us a REAL mmorpg to play now?
In fact, thats what I'd like to hear from all the silly Wow haters. alright, you say we should go play another game. what game? go ahead, I'm waiting.
please, no. stay and play wow. please. this isn't reverse psychology. from reading your posts, wow IS your game. rock on brother.
no no "Brother". I'd like to know . I'm sure an expert on the mmorpg genre like yourself can recommend all WoW players a better game. I mean, all WoW players are clearly ignorant. but we are saved now, Because damian7 knows what YOU like! well, i know i don't like trolls that read a post, take ONE line out of it, and act like that was the entirety of the post. i mean, it could be an RIF factor, but i'd like to assume someone posting on a forum CAN read.
judging from your posts, wow is THE game for you - rock on brother~!! go farm some for the rest of us who are too stupid/weak/whatever to play that game.
ftw-te.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by ownth3c0w I am looking through ratings in games and all I see is "WoW is a waste of money","WoW is the most stupid game I have ever sen!", "This game will definately blow WoW out of the water"... and so on.
I play WoW, and I think it is really good. Graphics are corny, but easy to play with. Community is good from what I have seen. Grinding is fun! (Yes, it is.)
I just want to know.. what is it with people against WoW these days?
I have several reasons for really disliking the game. Remember these are MY reasons only.
1. Most poorly designed grouping system ever in a MMO. Ok, lets look at at exp gain in WoW. Soloing will net you more exp over time than a duo, and duoing will net you more exp over time than a full group. WoW till about lvl 57/58 is a MO, that whole "Multiplayer" part doesnt even apply. No one groups because it's less effcetive. In a MMO. Anyone else see the complete and utter STUPIDITY? I think that WoW is the only MMO that has exp modle like this. This leads directly to my 2nd reason for really disliking WoW....
2. Endgame is COMPLETELY DIFFEREN'T from the leveling up part of the game. Ok, so you soloed your (insert class here) to 60. Woooo, didn't take too long, did mostley quests,goofed off, ect. NOW YOU GET TO RAID. In other words, scrap EVERYTHING you have learned about your class to this point. completely respec your talents and then........try not to get people killed, as you have to relearn to play your class, and to learn on the fly how to play in a group. I can't tell you how stupid this is in terms of game design.
3. The influx of battle.net um........how do I say this nicely? err.....people....
Not the best "community" on the planet, IMO.
4. Boring combat system. Ok, WoW is like riding a bike, with training wheels for me. The combat is very dull, as all you do is wait for a couple buttons on your hotbar to refresh. As a Hunter, I found that I only had 2-3 decent attacks, so that was all I used, most of what I had was utter garbage. And there was certainly nothing that kept me involved in a fight, mentally.
5. End-game: Raiding. Again?! Gah, can't we think of something else boys and girls? Oh yeah, crappy PvP........
6. Trolls. Why do PC trolls look like a 98 pound weakling (and all the other tribes are buff), and Night Elves are built like Arnold?! I call bulls***!
7. Really BAD character creation. Hardly any options, no way to change size, build, ect.
Originally posted by rungard i think wow is a great game 1-59 for anyone wanting to get into a mmorpg. What i dont like about wow is that they have gone against their own design with the raiding game, and its really hurting the funfactor if you dont choose to raid (read: most wow players). If they had of stuck to the original vision of group content and world pvp wow would be perfect for me. Whatever game the original designers of wow are making, im playing next.
I hate to break this to you, but "Raiding" was exactly what was designed many years ago. 3 years before the game was released, they (Blizzard) brought several of EQ's Uberguilds over to help develop the game. The brought those uberguilds over for one reason and one reason only, to help design the endgame.
Raiding was the endgame in EQ and that was what Blizzard was trying to recreate in it's endgame.
That was planned for 5 years ago. Nothing has changed in that dept.
The thread is too long for me to go through, so I'm gonna list my reasons and assume that they've been said before.
WoW is the reason that original MMOs, like Auto Assault or City of Villains aren't doing as well as they could be. Normally, I would consider raising the bar a good thing, as it forces other companies to step up, but it's been a year and a half now, and no other MMO has managed that, and only Warhammer Online looks promising as a future contender.
1-59, WoW rocks. 60, WoW is more fun the more time you have. Less time, less fun. So when you, like me, are a casual player who can play maybe 2 hours a day, WoW is no fun at all. So I'm forced to find other, more casual-friendly games. However, all the hardcores are playing WoW, and the casuals, who are the minority, are too spread out. Thus, games that are possible for people like me to enjoy are failing, while a game that caters to those that, apparently, don't have to juggle school, a job and a social life is succeeding more than I would've believed.
WoW is also a great "tutorial" for newbies to the genre. It's not punishing at low levels, it ramps up the difficulty quite nicely, and it has lots of players to help out. However, soloing is discouraged and min/maxing is prevalent. It is because of folks who sharpened their knifes on WoW that the previously pseudo-socialist MMO playerbase is now saturated with, to be blunt, dickwads. People that are always looking out for number one, and, when forced into a team, don't play well with others.
Originally posted by Nomad20 The thread is too long for me to go through, so I'm gonna list my reasons and assume that they've been said before.
WoW is the reason that original MMOs, like Auto Assault or City of Villains aren't doing as well as they could be. Normally, I would consider raising the bar a good thing, as it forces other companies to step up, but it's been a year and a half now, and no other MMO has managed that, and only Warhammer Online looks promising as a future contender.
1-59, WoW rocks. 60, WoW is more fun the more time you have. Less time, less fun. So when you, like me, are a casual player who can play maybe 2 hours a day, WoW is no fun at all. So I'm forced to find other, more casual-friendly games. However, all the hardcores are playing WoW, and the casuals, who are the minority, are too spread out. Thus, games that are possible for people like me to enjoy are failing, while a game that caters to those that, apparently, don't have to juggle school, a job and a social life is succeeding more than I would've believed.
WoW is also a great "tutorial" for newbies to the genre. It's not punishing at low levels, it ramps up the difficulty quite nicely, and it has lots of players to help out. However, soloing is discouraged and min/maxing is prevalent. It is because of folks who sharpened their knifes on WoW that the previously pseudo-socialist MMO playerbase is now saturated with, to be blunt, dickwads. People that are always looking out for number one, and, when forced into a team, don't play well with others.
Haunt <---- Casual Gamer (aka having a life, job, etc)
I agree with what you have to say... and
perhaps it's time for casual gamers to Unite!
Viva the Revolution!
erm... or just gimme a game to play after work so I can have fun, unwind and be a worthwhile person to be around...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Vagabond Spirit in search of a home... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Which FF Character Are You?
Originally posted by lomiller Most people don’t hate WoW. What happens is people who don’t particularly dislike WoW mention some real problem with the game, then the fanbois who can’t accept that WoW isn’t the ubar all time best MMO jump into the fray forcing people to explain to them at length the problems with the game.
This is really all there is to this debate. There's so many people (often a bit older than the general WoW community) who's been playing MMO's for a long time. We feel a need to inform other people about the facts, not to flame but to be a counterweight to all fanboys.
Don't forget that just because WoW have lots of subscribers doesn’t mean it's the greatest MMO ever. Take a few minutes to think about the effects of the huge marketing and the fact that it has Blizzard written on the box, as well as how the game plays (very simple game) and you'll probably see why we voice our opinions.
Originally posted by Haunt Originally posted by Nomad20 The thread is too long for me to go through, so I'm gonna list my reasons and assume that they've been said before.
WoW is the reason that original MMOs, like Auto Assault or City of Villains aren't doing as well as they could be. Normally, I would consider raising the bar a good thing, as it forces other companies to step up, but it's been a year and a half now, and no other MMO has managed that, and only Warhammer Online looks promising as a future contender.
1-59, WoW rocks. 60, WoW is more fun the more time you have. Less time, less fun. So when you, like me, are a casual player who can play maybe 2 hours a day, WoW is no fun at all. So I'm forced to find other, more casual-friendly games. However, all the hardcores are playing WoW, and the casuals, who are the minority, are too spread out. Thus, games that are possible for people like me to enjoy are failing, while a game that caters to those that, apparently, don't have to juggle school, a job and a social life is succeeding more than I would've believed.
WoW is also a great "tutorial" for newbies to the genre. It's not punishing at low levels, it ramps up the difficulty quite nicely, and it has lots of players to help out. However, soloing is discouraged and min/maxing is prevalent. It is because of folks who sharpened their knifes on WoW that the previously pseudo-socialist MMO playerbase is now saturated with, to be blunt, dickwads. People that are always looking out for number one, and, when forced into a team, don't play well with others.
Haunt <---- Casual Gamer (aka having a life, job, etc)
I agree with what you have to say... and
perhaps it's time for casual gamers to Unite!
Viva the Revolution!
erm... or just gimme a game to play after work so I can have fun, unwind and be a worthwhile person to be around...
I wait with bated breath for Warhammer Online. I don't care if it doesn't dethrone WoW, but if it isn't successful, I'm done with the genre.
WoW has established itself in mmorpg history as one of the most important games not many have done this, most that have done this before were the ones that appeared first,this is an undenyiable fact, so anyone saying WoW is bad is by definition wrong.
WoW was designed specifically to try and attract gamers of every single playstyle, and in this it is succesfull actually the most succesfull western mmorpg ever, and this is also an undecyiable fact.
So what happened to the industry and the community? well think about it for a moment, there are those who have a mmo history way back from the times of MUDS which were hosted on private BBS's before even the Internet became popular, then you have those that have followed the mmorpg worlds for about a decade now, and these people were a community.
Now this community in the west even if you include every single type of online game was about 1.5 maybe 2 million, specificaly speaking about the mmorpg community the most subscribers a game ever had was about 700k to 900k and......
....WoW comes in with a number of subscribers that not even eastern games ever had, 6.5 million subscribers, wow what a number so someone might say fot it to have such a number it must be the greatest of all games, but it isn't.
By definition the largest part of WoW's players are first timers, be it in mmorpgs or mmo's in general the numbers show that almost 5 out of 6 players are first timers, and now they will influence the world of a much more tight community into their liking, and here is a very strong point of why some players dislike WoW and what it brings.
Now don't get me wrong, i also dont like what WoW seems to be bringing in the industry, in comparison with other games WoW is a balloon, no matter how big it becomes it is still empty, why is it so succsesfull? well it is an extremely fancy ballon filled with hot air which can be seen from far away and extremely appealing, and designed in such a way that it will greatly satisfy anyone while he is exploring the surface.
Unfortunately when someone is done exploring the surface and now wished to move into more in-depth content, there is none, post-60 content is almost nonexistant the only thing that exists is a one way of constantly equiping yourself for no reason other then to be able to better equip yourself, there is no word content, there is no community, there is no feeling of beeing part of something bigger, there is no competition, there is no crafting, no economy, ad most importantly there is a PvP system in place that in all honesty it would benefit the game more if it didnt exist.
So in trying to answer the OP question what many really hate about WoW is the fact that it introduced a simplistic, easy going, non challenging and highly open game to the puplic and the puplic responded, and the puplic is now influencing the various companies to try and copy what kind of game WoW is in order to benefit from the extremely increased player base WoW created.
Thats it really....
the more challenging, hard, competitive games are really much more fun the WoW is, the proof is that most of them have passed the bigest test, the test of time, there are still quite alot subscribers in UO, a game which i believed should have died a long time now.... but as the saying goes...
when a man is presented with an easy way to do a task he will chose it even if the harder way will be give him more benefits.
So WoW will influence all other games in the future in a negative way, or at least what the pre-WoW majority of gamers consider negative, but in all honesty does it really matter now that these gamers are the minority?
1) it's Blizzard, come on guys, how many of you tried it just because it was Blizzard? 2) It was a direct challenge to the current online standard of games. EQ, DAoC, etc... 3) It set new guidelines for how NPC's could be presented.
Now some of the reasons that people may not like it:
1) the constant grind. There is really no true break from it. 2) Pre-determined path of progression. Though they try to pull away from it, it still breaks down to this class can only do this or this. 3) the community for some. I started on a roleplay server as I'm an avid RP"er but when someone slips character or did something wrong, the was a huge group of people who slammed, ridiculed and belittled someone for such a faux pas. 4)The casual player versus the seasoned Hardcore. Let's be honest, some people have lives outside of games, many casual players felt they were having to play catch up. But in truth, if your not a rabid play every night hardliner, then don't worry about...just enjoy the game before you. 5) Instances, this one is my gripe. I'm an old AO (anarchy online) player, so I can't understand why some of the instances can't be pared down to solo'd experience style dungeons. AO has been doing this since day one and perhaps some other games should take note to be truthful.
In sum, some people may not like WoW for one or more reasons listed above or for completely different reasons. But to be honest, gamers are fickle. They want to play the best and brightest, but with the influx of so many new games with various themes and ideals..this is no longer probable. Play what you enjoy, does others opinions really need to be deciding your enjoyment. If you enjoy EQ, then play it. The same goes for WoW, if someone doesn't like it, meh. It really doesn't matter if you enjoy it.
I enjoy WoW. It isn't my favorite game ever, but it indeed fun. Some will disagree and I could care less.... Blizzard is one of my favorite gaming companys because they actually make games for FUN instead of Money. That's why they let you play 80% of the games they create for Free Online. People say they sell out for making WoW p2p but they don't know how much money it takes to keep a game server up and running. Most of the games we play nowdays like guildwars is losing money every day because they don't have the upkeep to keep the server running. I clap at the achievements blizzard has done for themselves.
There are people who hate WoW simply because everyone is different. Now I'm not sure, but from what the title is suggesting, you are trying to say everyone should like WoW, which isn't true. People may not like it because they just can't work with it, or don't like a lot of its features. I can understand why a lot of people don't like the MMO's I play, such as RS. Everybody has different opinions, and everybody must accept that.
Best MMOs - RuneScape and WoW Crappiest MMOs - Hero Online, SWG, DDO MMO's played - RS, WoW, GW, EVE, AO, PlanetSide, Jumpgate, Face of Mankind, MapleStory, SO, Liniege 1 & 2, City of Villains, Flyff, Realm Online, SWG, Seed, Sims Online, City of Heroes.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature. ----
I guess I dont like WoW because I felt like it was an eq clone with far less content, and what makes like it even less is the fanbois screaming in your face how great it is, kinda reminds me of when homosexuals used to rally around "Were here, were queer, get used to it." Thats fine, stick it where ever, but dont expect everyone else to enjoy it and want to listen to your incessant ranting about it.
Wow is as challenging as any other game out there say for perhaps EQ classic and all its expansions. The misnomer of skill and challenge is a false idea set forth by fanboi's of whatever game they maybe playing atm.
From Eve to crappy games likes Horizons the fanbois all doth protest too much and take great delight in taking potshots at wow. Which they only do because they are really just too stupid and ignorant to see the game for what it is. What they do not get is that they are just insecure as to their games place in the MMO world. They also feel threatened by WoW.
WoW isn't the holy grail of MMO's. It has many flaws but it also does many things very well. To say that it doesn't is pure naivety and a total lack of what other MMO's are doing and not doing. Its a well polished game but builds on nothing in the MMO world. All MMO's are just various copies of one kind of grind for another. They are a testament to a human beings willingness to plug away at the most mundane of tasks.
WoW completely rocks for about 3-5 months. Most fun i've ever had in an mmo. After that, it's a nose-dive, boredom in the extreme, (imo).
But WoW did set a line/standard. The whole "level your character, group, pvp some, explore" thing... they have done the best ever. The easy graphics make it playable on most systems. The fast leveling keeps people engrossed (for the first 3-5 months mind you). And the modelling and consistency of the graphics is actually better than most of the MMOs that strive for realism. ( Realism is not the holy grail, Believability/Immersion is... consistency and interesting modelling is a bigger deal than just textures).
I think WoW is the pinnacle of the genre. It has set a new standard, and it is going to force other companies to innovate if they want to win in this market. But I'm looking at the "games in development" and I'm not seeing a whole lot of real gameplay innovation. I think they will flop because of it. The NEXT mmo is going to have to do something really new in the GAMEPLAY department. I'm not sure what exactly... i'm just sure that if new game X does exactly what wow does with realistic graphics, it will not be enough to either A) pull people from wow, or get people to play MMOs that have never played them before. Maybe some mixin of pvp conquests, sieges, building stuff, destroying stuff (some of the shadowbane type of promises), with maybe some RTS thrown in there, with some kind of dynamic content/quests, or player-made content or something... The same old same old is just not going to take us to the next level...
Originally posted by airhead WoW completely rocks for about 3-5 months. Most fun i've ever had in an mmo. After that, it's a nose-dive, boredom in the extreme, (imo).
But WoW did set a line/standard. The whole "level your character, group, pvp some, explore" thing... they have done the best ever. The easy graphics make it playable on most systems. The fast leveling keeps people engrossed (for the first 3-5 months mind you). And the modelling and consistency of the graphics is actually better than most of the MMOs that strive for realism. ( Realism is not the holy grail, Believability/Immersion is... consistency and interesting modelling is a bigger deal than just textures).
I think WoW is the pinnacle of the genre. It has set a new standard, and it is going to force other companies to innovate if they want to win in this market. But I'm looking at the "games in development" and I'm not seeing a whole lot of real gameplay innovation. I think they will flop because of it. The NEXT mmo is going to have to do something really new in the GAMEPLAY department. I'm not sure what exactly... i'm just sure that if new game X does exactly what wow does with realistic graphics, it will not be enough to either A) pull people from wow, or get people to play MMOs that have never played them before. Maybe some mixin of pvp conquests, sieges, building stuff, destroying stuff (some of the shadowbane type of promises), with maybe some RTS thrown in there, with some kind of dynamic content/quests, or player-made content or something... The same old same old is just not going to take us to the next level...
Okay clarify for me, what has WoW done that hasnt already been done? Because so far, its little more than a simplified Everquest.
Originally posted by Arcken Originally posted by airhead WoW completely rocks for about 3-5 months. Most fun i've ever had in an mmo. After that, it's a nose-dive, boredom in the extreme, (imo).
But WoW did set a line/standard. The whole "level your character, group, pvp some, explore" thing... they have done the best ever. The easy graphics make it playable on most systems. The fast leveling keeps people engrossed (for the first 3-5 months mind you). And the modelling and consistency of the graphics is actually better than most of the MMOs that strive for realism. ( Realism is not the holy grail, Believability/Immersion is... consistency and interesting modelling is a bigger deal than just textures).
I think WoW is the pinnacle of the genre. It has set a new standard, and it is going to force other companies to innovate if they want to win in this market. But I'm looking at the "games in development" and I'm not seeing a whole lot of real gameplay innovation. I think they will flop because of it. The NEXT mmo is going to have to do something really new in the GAMEPLAY department. I'm not sure what exactly... i'm just sure that if new game X does exactly what wow does with realistic graphics, it will not be enough to either A) pull people from wow, or get people to play MMOs that have never played them before. Maybe some mixin of pvp conquests, sieges, building stuff, destroying stuff (some of the shadowbane type of promises), with maybe some RTS thrown in there, with some kind of dynamic content/quests, or player-made content or something... The same old same old is just not going to take us to the next level...
Okay clarify for me, what has WoW done that hasnt already been done? Because so far, its little more than a simplified Everquest.
Nothing new... that's what i said. They have 'maxed out' so to speak the whole "level your character, group some, solo some, pvp some, explore some" kind of game. Nothing new. The graphics were simplier, (worked on more systems), very consistent (character model details matched world model details, as opposed to let's say eq2). "relatively" smooth gameplay.
But they did nothing new, other than broaden the mmo customer market by about 500%. 6 mill + copies sold. Read what I said again... I'm saying that the NEXT mmo will need to do something new to steal their customers, or get new ones. Particularly, i'm following games like AoC, War, Vanguard. AoC has a couple of new angles (adult-oriented, realtime action (which i'm suspecting may be hard to actually pull off without lag destroying it) etc). But on the whole, i'm still seeing the same old same old coming down the pike. Level your character, kill 10 rats, gather some copper to craft a pair of shoes etc. I think the next big hit will need to something really new in the gameplay department. I don't see anyone making a WoW-2, and taking away blizzard's playerbase, no matter how boring the game is.... just my opinion of course.
Personally I think WoW is popular mostly due to the fact that it was hugely hyped from teh get go, it had brand name recognition working for it, and the MMO market is very stagnant right now, people will play a so so game before theyll give up mmos altogether.
Originally posted by Arcken Personally I think WoW is popular mostly due to the fact that it was hugely hyped from teh get go, it had brand name recognition working for it, and the MMO market is very stagnant right now, people will play a so so game before theyll give up mmos altogether.
hmm... was definately hyped from the get-go, and blizz had name recognition for sure... but EQ1 was top dog for years, and they were coming out with eq2 at the same time. The simple yet consistent graphics, more solo-play, and smoother pvp of WoW caused them to squash eq2 underfoot. It really was mono-e-mono between them, and WoW completely won. Honestly, i remember watching the eq2 trailors, getting really pumped. Bought both games within a few weeks of release.... eq2 ended up spending 7+ months on the shelf while i played WoW. I mean, c'mon man... they increased the whole MMO playerbase by a factor of 10+ ? They obviously did something right.
That said, I completely agree with your "market is very stagnant right now" final point. And as I said before, I will never play WoW again... it's completely boring after 5 months or so. And I think given the money blizz made from the game, they should have come out with xpacks within a year instead of the upcoming 2-year mark, INSTEAD of pocketing the money. But hey, if i was them maybe i would do the same, dont' know.
I generally agree with you arcken, the genre is really boring, repetitive, with little to no innovation. Maybe it's because the genre requires such a HUGE initial capital investment (blizz spent 3+ years on wow), and a good hefty ongoing cost (keeping servers up, classes balanced, new content coming), that it really is a very risky venture to begin with. Then add to that the risk involved with doing anything new (ala DDO forced grouping of quests was borderline new, and it resulted in a MONSTER FLOP).... maybe repetitive and boring all that MMOs will ever be...
I dont have much experience with Wow. Recently(withing the past couple of months) i tried out the free trial. I started an a newer low population server. THe first time i got you have a 35 minute wait to get into the game i uninstalled. Simple as that, if i'm paying for a game there is no chance in hell i'm waiting to get into it. From my week or so there i thought it was a good game, but very simplistic(both combat and crafting), but thats my opinion only.
Comments
That's why I hate WoW damnit! OK????? ITS EVIL!!!
On a more serious note: I don't hate WoW at all. I hate WoW players who think WoW is the "Best game" out there and refuse to even try other games before making that pronouncement. IMO DAOC is the 'best' MMORPG on the market, closely followed by EVE. But that's *my opinion* not a hard-fact.
"Best" is subjective. It varies from person to person.
WOW is absolutely 100% the most POPULAR MMORPG currently on the market. But Best? Not in this gamer's opinion.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
so I take it the mighty Varius, he who knows all about mmorpg´s, he! the one! is going to tell us a REAL mmorpg to play now?
In fact, thats what I'd like to hear from all the silly Wow haters. alright, you say we should go play another game. what game? go ahead, I'm waiting.
i think wow is a great game 1-59 for anyone wanting to get into a mmorpg.
What i dont like about wow is that they have gone against their own design with the raiding game, and its really hurting the funfactor if you dont choose to raid (read: most wow players).
If they had of stuck to the original vision of group content and world pvp wow would be perfect for me.
Whatever game the original designers of wow are making, im playing next.
Anything the current developers (Tigole) of wow are making will be trash so theres no need to go there. They are just living off of someone elses work, and doing a crappy job at it.
versus, losing a sword, having to get a craftsman to hook you up with a new one. versus mining and maybe a little hunting for other parts and making your own. versus
Exacly.looking for a craftsman: Go town, yell looking for craftsman
Mining: Go to to mining spot, equip mining pick, click ore, wait
Craft: click a few things in window menu's
Damian7, I take my words back. it truly requires skill. it requires deep thinking, planning and skill to do all these things. [/sacrasm]
sorry, but none of that requires skill. if you truly think that is called "skill" Then i suggest you drop gaming all together. it clearly isn't your thing. the things you mentioned make the game experience take LONGER, not harder.
also, the fact you compare a PvE raid to pvp town battles prove your just nothing more then a pathetic hater. get over yourself Damian7.
In fact, thats what I'd like to hear from all the silly Wow haters. alright, you say we should go play another game. what game? go ahead, I'm waiting.
please, no. stay and play wow. please. this isn't reverse psychology. from reading your posts, wow IS your game. rock on brother.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
In fact, thats what I'd like to hear from all the silly Wow haters. alright, you say we should go play another game. what game? go ahead, I'm waiting.
please, no. stay and play wow. please. this isn't reverse psychology. from reading your posts, wow IS your game. rock on brother.
no no "Brother". I'd like to know . I'm sure an expert on the mmorpg genre like yourself can recommend all WoW players a better game. I mean, all WoW players are clearly ignorant. but we are saved now, Because damian7 knows what YOU like!
In fact, thats what I'd like to hear from all the silly Wow haters. alright, you say we should go play another game. what game? go ahead, I'm waiting.
please, no. stay and play wow. please. this isn't reverse psychology. from reading your posts, wow IS your game. rock on brother.
no no "Brother". I'd like to know . I'm sure an expert on the mmorpg genre like yourself can recommend all WoW players a better game. I mean, all WoW players are clearly ignorant. but we are saved now, Because damian7 knows what YOU like!
well, i know i don't like trolls that read a post, take ONE line out of it, and act like that was the entirety of the post. i mean, it could be an RIF factor, but i'd like to assume someone posting on a forum CAN read.
judging from your posts, wow is THE game for you - rock on brother~!!
ftw-te.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I have several reasons for really disliking the game. Remember these are MY reasons only.
1. Most poorly designed grouping system ever in a MMO. Ok, lets look at at exp gain in WoW. Soloing will net you more exp over time than a duo, and duoing will net you more exp over time than a full group. WoW till about lvl 57/58 is a MO, that whole "Multiplayer" part doesnt even apply. No one groups because it's less effcetive. In a MMO. Anyone else see the complete and utter STUPIDITY?
I think that WoW is the only MMO that has exp modle like this. This leads directly to my 2nd reason for really disliking WoW....
2. Endgame is COMPLETELY DIFFEREN'T from the leveling up part of the game. Ok, so you soloed your (insert class here) to 60. Woooo, didn't take too long, did mostley quests,goofed off, ect. NOW YOU GET TO RAID. In other words, scrap EVERYTHING you have learned about your class to this point. completely respec your talents and then........try not to get people killed, as you have to relearn to play your class, and to learn on the fly how to play in a group. I can't tell you how stupid this is in terms of game design.
3. The influx of battle.net um........how do I say this nicely? err.....people....
Not the best "community" on the planet, IMO.
4. Boring combat system. Ok, WoW is like riding a bike, with training wheels for me. The combat is very dull, as all you do is wait for a couple buttons on your hotbar to refresh. As a Hunter, I found that I only had 2-3 decent attacks, so that was all I used, most of what I had was utter garbage. And there was certainly nothing that kept me involved in a fight, mentally.
5. End-game: Raiding. Again?! Gah, can't we think of something else boys and girls? Oh yeah, crappy PvP........
6. Trolls. Why do PC trolls look like a 98 pound weakling (and all the other tribes are buff), and Night Elves are built like Arnold?! I call bulls***!
7. Really BAD character creation. Hardly any options, no way to change size, build, ect.
My reasons for not likeing WoW.
I hate to break this to you, but "Raiding" was exactly what was designed many years ago. 3 years before the game was released, they (Blizzard) brought several of EQ's Uberguilds over to help develop the game. The brought those uberguilds over for one reason and one reason only, to help design the endgame.
Raiding was the endgame in EQ and that was what Blizzard was trying to recreate in it's endgame.
That was planned for 5 years ago. Nothing has changed in that dept.
WoW is the reason that original MMOs, like Auto Assault or City of Villains aren't doing as well as they could be. Normally, I would consider raising the bar a good thing, as it forces other companies to step up, but it's been a year and a half now, and no other MMO has managed that, and only Warhammer Online looks promising as a future contender.
1-59, WoW rocks. 60, WoW is more fun the more time you have. Less time, less fun. So when you, like me, are a casual player who can play maybe 2 hours a day, WoW is no fun at all. So I'm forced to find other, more casual-friendly games. However, all the hardcores are playing WoW, and the casuals, who are the minority, are too spread out. Thus, games that are possible for people like me to enjoy are failing, while a game that caters to those that, apparently, don't have to juggle school, a job and a social life is succeeding more than I would've believed.
WoW is also a great "tutorial" for newbies to the genre. It's not punishing at low levels, it ramps up the difficulty quite nicely, and it has lots of players to help out. However, soloing is discouraged and min/maxing is prevalent. It is because of folks who sharpened their knifes on WoW that the previously pseudo-socialist MMO playerbase is now saturated with, to be blunt, dickwads. People that are always looking out for number one, and, when forced into a team, don't play well with others.
Haunt <---- Casual Gamer (aka having a life, job, etc)
I agree with what you have to say... and
perhaps it's time for casual gamers to Unite!
Viva the Revolution!
erm... or just gimme a game to play after work so I can have fun, unwind and be a worthwhile person to be around...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Vagabond Spirit in search of a home...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Which FF Character Are You?
This is really all there is to this debate. There's so many
people (often a bit older than the general WoW community) who's been playing
MMO's for a long time. We feel a need to inform other people about the facts,
not to flame but to be a counterweight to all fanboys.
Don't forget that just because WoW have lots of subscribers doesn’t
mean it's the greatest MMO ever. Take a few minutes to think about the effects
of the huge marketing and the fact that it has Blizzard written on the box, as
well as how the game plays (very simple game) and you'll probably see why we
voice our opinions.
Haunt <---- Casual Gamer (aka having a life, job, etc)
I agree with what you have to say... and
perhaps it's time for casual gamers to Unite!
Viva the Revolution!
erm... or just gimme a game to play after work so I can have fun, unwind and be a worthwhile person to be around...
I wait with bated breath for Warhammer Online. I don't care if it doesn't dethrone WoW, but if it isn't successful, I'm done with the genre.
WoW has established itself in mmorpg history as one of the most important games not many have done this, most that have done this before were the ones that appeared first,this is an undenyiable fact, so anyone saying WoW is bad is by definition wrong.
WoW was designed specifically to try and attract gamers of every single playstyle, and in this it is succesfull actually the most succesfull western mmorpg ever, and this is also an undecyiable fact.
So what happened to the industry and the community? well think about it for a moment, there are those who have a mmo history way back from the times of MUDS which were hosted on private BBS's before even the Internet became popular, then you have those that have followed the mmorpg worlds for about a decade now, and these people were a community.
Now this community in the west even if you include every single type of online game was about 1.5 maybe 2 million, specificaly speaking about the mmorpg community the most subscribers a game ever had was about 700k to 900k and......
....WoW comes in with a number of subscribers that not even eastern games ever had, 6.5 million subscribers, wow what a number so someone might say fot it to have such a number it must be the greatest of all games, but it isn't.
By definition the largest part of WoW's players are first timers, be it in mmorpgs or mmo's in general the numbers show that almost 5 out of 6 players are first timers, and now they will influence the world of a much more tight community into their liking, and here is a very strong point of why some players dislike WoW and what it brings.
Now don't get me wrong, i also dont like what WoW seems to be bringing in the industry, in comparison with other games WoW is a balloon, no matter how big it becomes it is still empty, why is it so succsesfull? well it is an extremely fancy ballon filled with hot air which can be seen from far away and extremely appealing, and designed in such a way that it will greatly satisfy anyone while he is exploring the surface.
Unfortunately when someone is done exploring the surface and now wished to move into more in-depth content, there is none, post-60 content is almost nonexistant the only thing that exists is a one way of constantly equiping yourself for no reason other then to be able to better equip yourself, there is no word content, there is no community, there is no feeling of beeing part of something bigger, there is no competition, there is no crafting, no economy, ad most importantly there is a PvP system in place that in all honesty it would benefit the game more if it didnt exist.
So in trying to answer the OP question what many really hate about WoW is the fact that it introduced a simplistic, easy going, non challenging and highly open game to the puplic and the puplic responded, and the puplic is now influencing the various companies to try and copy what kind of game WoW is in order to benefit from the extremely increased player base WoW created.
Thats it really....
the more challenging, hard, competitive games are really much more fun the WoW is, the proof is that most of them have passed the bigest test, the test of time, there are still quite alot subscribers in UO, a game which i believed should have died a long time now.... but as the saying goes...
when a man is presented with an easy way to do a task he will chose it even if the harder way will be give him more benefits.
So WoW will influence all other games in the future in a negative way, or at least what the pre-WoW majority of gamers consider negative, but in all honesty does it really matter now that these gamers are the minority?
1) it's Blizzard, come on guys, how many of you tried it just because it was Blizzard?
2) It was a direct challenge to the current online standard of games. EQ, DAoC, etc...
3) It set new guidelines for how NPC's could be presented.
Now some of the reasons that people may not like it:
1) the constant grind. There is really no true break from it.
2) Pre-determined path of progression. Though they try to pull away from it, it still breaks down to this class can only do this or this.
3) the community for some. I started on a roleplay server as I'm an avid RP"er but when someone slips character or did something wrong, the was a huge group of people who slammed, ridiculed and belittled someone for such a faux pas.
4)The casual player versus the seasoned Hardcore. Let's be honest, some people have lives outside of games, many casual players felt they were having to play catch up. But in truth, if your not a rabid play every night hardliner, then don't worry about...just enjoy the game before you.
5) Instances, this one is my gripe. I'm an old AO (anarchy online) player, so I can't understand why some of the instances can't be pared down to solo'd experience style dungeons. AO has been doing this since day one and perhaps some other games should take note to be truthful.
In sum, some people may not like WoW for one or more reasons listed above or for completely different reasons. But to be honest, gamers are fickle. They want to play the best and brightest, but with the influx of so many new games with various themes and ideals..this is no longer probable. Play what you enjoy, does others opinions really need to be deciding your enjoyment. If you enjoy EQ, then play it. The same goes for WoW, if someone doesn't like it, meh. It really doesn't matter if you enjoy it.
I enjoy WoW.
It isn't my favorite game ever, but it indeed fun. Some will disagree and I could care less....
Blizzard is one of my favorite gaming companys because they actually make games for FUN instead of Money.
That's why they let you play 80% of the games they create for Free Online.
People say they sell out for making WoW p2p but they don't know how much money it takes to keep a game server up and running.
Most of the games we play nowdays like guildwars is losing money every day because they don't have the upkeep to keep the server running.
I clap at the achievements blizzard has done for themselves.
Neptus - FFXI - Pandemonium
Neptus - WoW - Detheroc
There are people who hate WoW simply because everyone is different. Now I'm not sure, but from what the title is suggesting, you are trying to say everyone should like WoW, which isn't true. People may not like it because they just can't work with it, or don't like a lot of its features. I can understand why a lot of people don't like the MMO's I play, such as RS. Everybody has different opinions, and everybody must accept that.
Best MMOs - RuneScape and WoW
Crappiest MMOs - Hero Online, SWG, DDO
MMO's played - RS, WoW, GW, EVE, AO, PlanetSide, Jumpgate, Face of Mankind, MapleStory, SO, Liniege 1 & 2, City of Villains, Flyff, Realm Online, SWG, Seed, Sims Online, City of Heroes.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
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From Eve to crappy games likes Horizons the fanbois all doth protest too much and take great delight in taking potshots at wow. Which they only do because they are really just too stupid and ignorant to see the game for what it is. What they do not get is that they are just insecure as to their games place in the MMO world. They also feel threatened by WoW.
WoW isn't the holy grail of MMO's. It has many flaws but it also does many things very well. To say that it doesn't is pure naivety and a total lack of what other MMO's are doing and not doing. Its a well polished game but builds on nothing in the MMO world. All MMO's are just various copies of one kind of grind for another. They are a testament to a human beings willingness to plug away at the most mundane of tasks.
But WoW did set a line/standard. The whole "level your character, group, pvp some, explore" thing... they have done the best ever. The easy graphics make it playable on most systems. The fast leveling keeps people engrossed (for the first 3-5 months mind you). And the modelling and consistency of the graphics is actually better than most of the MMOs that strive for realism. ( Realism is not the holy grail, Believability/Immersion is... consistency and interesting modelling is a bigger deal than just textures).
I think WoW is the pinnacle of the genre. It has set a new standard, and it is going to force other companies to innovate if they want to win in this market. But I'm looking at the "games in development" and I'm not seeing a whole lot of real gameplay innovation. I think they will flop because of it. The NEXT mmo is going to have to do something really new in the GAMEPLAY department. I'm not sure what exactly... i'm just sure that if new game X does exactly what wow does with realistic graphics, it will not be enough to either A) pull people from wow, or
Nothing new... that's what i said. They have 'maxed out' so to speak the whole "level your character, group some, solo some, pvp some, explore some" kind of game. Nothing new. The graphics were simplier, (worked on more systems), very consistent (character model details matched world model details, as opposed to let's say eq2). "relatively" smooth gameplay.
But they did nothing new, other than broaden the mmo customer market by about 500%. 6 mill + copies sold. Read what I said again... I'm saying that the NEXT mmo will need to do something new to steal their customers, or get new ones. Particularly, i'm following games like AoC, War, Vanguard. AoC has a couple of new angles (adult-oriented, realtime action (which i'm suspecting may be hard to actually pull off without lag destroying it) etc). But on the whole, i'm still seeing the same old same old coming down the pike. Level your character, kill 10 rats, gather some copper to craft a pair of shoes etc. I think the next big hit will need to something really new in the gameplay department. I don't see anyone making a WoW-2, and taking away blizzard's playerbase, no matter how boring the game is.... just my opinion of course.
That said, I completely agree with your "market is very stagnant right now" final point. And as I said before, I will never play WoW again... it's completely boring after 5 months or so. And I think given the money blizz made from the game, they should have come out with xpacks within a year instead of the upcoming 2-year mark, INSTEAD of pocketing the money. But hey, if i was them maybe i would do the same, dont' know.
I generally agree with you arcken, the genre is really boring, repetitive, with little to no innovation. Maybe it's because the genre requires such a HUGE initial capital investment (blizz spent 3+ years on wow), and a good hefty ongoing cost (keeping servers up, classes balanced, new content coming), that it really is a very risky venture to begin with. Then add to that the risk involved with doing anything new (ala DDO forced grouping of quests was borderline new, and it resulted in a MONSTER FLOP).... maybe repetitive and boring all that MMOs will ever be...