I'm a little disgusted with MMORPG.com

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by eagleranger
i think if you break a nda from a game company that mmorpg SHOULD GIVE THE COMPANY YOUR INFORMATION if want to keep the trust of the companies they interview on a regular bases

If this is the way they want to operate they should include that in their privacy policy.

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by Motorhead

Originally posted by cumbom

Indeed, it may be illegal, and if it were to happen to me I would file a lawsuit.

I didn't even notice that. That was some funny funny stuff. Just priceless.
Really, good luck with that one. And again, thanks for the giggle.

I don't know why that is so funny there are many jurisdictions which have laws designed to protect the privacy of consumers, clients, and whatnot.

Although a privacy policy may not be legally binding, there very likely are other civil actions that can be taken against a company for sharing your personal information.

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by Roin

Originally posted by britoca

Originally posted by Bama1267

It doesnt seem like they are breaking any privacy policy. If you do not follow the rules of the game you choose to beta test for, you are breaking an agreement with that company. In order for MMORPG protect there own interests with these companies....they will hand over your information. You kow they will, he just stated it....so dont do it. And the only thing the company will do with the information is verify if you are indeed leakign information which you agreed not to.
Only one here breakig rules is the one leaking information about the beta they are in .

from a legal perspective, u are wrong:

"MMORPG.COM never sells or shares any of your personal information with other parties.
All information is strictly for internal use and all e-mails are only sent from our facilities."

Never means never. Only a court-issued order could force this rule to be broken.

If the gaming company has a problem with screenies being posted etc, that is THEIR problem, not mmorpg.com's

If it's such a big deal, either write your code in a way that prevents screenies, or have no open beta at all whatsoever. Find other ways to test your game, because asking people not to take screenies is pretty naive.

The fact that mmorpg is doing this just goes to show they're a commercial site, for the promotion of games and their viewpoints, and not so much the freedom of open and impartial communication in the forums.

This site is not about the forums and what we can say in it. That is a minor sideshow. What this site is about is promoting the hype of any given company. As such, it seems they are bending over quite easily.

Actually yes those screenshots would be a problem. Leaked or not, if the game is still under NDA. They still can't allow post of screenshots to remain on their forums, whether they are hosting them or not.

Actually, technically no, MMORPG.com owes nothing to those companies, and that is even if the NDA is legally binding, which it probably isn't.

britoca · June 2006

Originally posted by Motorhead

Originally posted by britoca

Originally posted by Bama1267

It doesnt seem like they are breaking any privacy policy. If you do not follow the rules of the game you choose to beta test for, you are breaking an agreement with that company. In order for MMORPG protect there own interests with these companies....they will hand over your information. You kow they will, he just stated it....so dont do it. And the only thing the company will do with the information is verify if you are indeed leakign information which you agreed not to.
Only one here breakig rules is the one leaking information about the beta they are in .

from a legal perspective, u are wrong:

"MMORPG.COM never sells or shares any of your personal information with other parties. All information is strictly for internal use and all e-mails are only sent from our facilities."

Never means never. Only a court-issued order could force this rule to be broken.

If the gaming company has a problem with screenies being posted etc, that is THEIR problem, not mmorpg.com's

If it's such a big deal, either write your code in a way that prevents screenies, or have no open beta at all whatsoever. Find other ways to test your game, because asking people not to take screenies is pretty naive.

The fact that mmorpg is doing this just goes to show they're a commercial site, for the promotion of games and their viewpoints, and not so much the freedom of open and impartial communication in the forums.

This site is not about the forums and what we can say in it. That is a minor sideshow. What this site is about is promoting the hype of any given company. As such, it seems they are bending over quite easily.

Court orders? what are you smoking? This is a private website, and they can honestly do whatever they want with the information they obtain from your using it.

I am smoking good stuff. You should try it as well.

I fthis website can really do anything they want with the information, then why even bother to include a misleading statement like that in their agreement:

"MMORPG.COM never
sells or shares any of your personal information with other parties.
All information is strictly for internal use and all e-mails are only
sent from our facilities. UNLESS WE DON'T FEEL LIKE IT."

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by Motorhead

Originally posted by britoca

Originally posted by Bama1267

It doesnt seem like they are breaking any privacy policy. If you do not follow the rules of the game you choose to beta test for, you are breaking an agreement with that company. In order for MMORPG protect there own interests with these companies....they will hand over your information. You kow they will, he just stated it....so dont do it. And the only thing the company will do with the information is verify if you are indeed leakign information which you agreed not to.
Only one here breakig rules is the one leaking information about the beta they are in .

from a legal perspective, u are wrong:

"MMORPG.COM never sells or shares any of your personal information with other parties. All information is strictly for internal use and all e-mails are only sent from our facilities."

Never means never. Only a court-issued order could force this rule to be broken.

If the gaming company has a problem with screenies being posted etc, that is THEIR problem, not mmorpg.com's

If it's such a big deal, either write your code in a way that prevents screenies, or have no open beta at all whatsoever. Find other ways to test your game, because asking people not to take screenies is pretty naive.

The fact that mmorpg is doing this just goes to show they're a commercial site, for the promotion of games and their viewpoints, and not so much the freedom of open and impartial communication in the forums.

This site is not about the forums and what we can say in it. That is a minor sideshow. What this site is about is promoting the hype of any given company. As such, it seems they are bending over quite easily.

Umm, you realize you're quoting their privacy policy. A policy does not equate a law.

Court orders? what are you smoking? This is a private website, and they can honestly do whatever they want with the information they obtain from your using it.

It is their policy that they won't give that information out. But as already has been stated by Enigma, if they see you breaking a legal agreement that you agreed to, they're gonna do something about it.

Where do you get your legal information from? Night Court on TV-Land?

Looks like you get your legal information from the back of a cereal box.

It is their policy that they won't give that
information out. But as already has been stated by Enigma, if they
see you breaking a legal agreement that you agreed to, they're gonna do
something about it.

Surprise the legal agreement Enigma was talking about was not a legal agreement, an NDA is just a promise, not a legally binding one.

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by voodookhan

Originally posted by cumbom

Originally posted by paulscott
a site like this does not want to piss off game companies or else the site becomes phassed out by the companies

Then strictly moderate the forums, ban offender, but don't give away our private information.

Cumbom, I see your point but read the whole policy:

MMORPG.COM may access and/or disclose your personal information if required to do so by
law or in the good faith belief that such action is necessary to: (a) conform to
the edicts of the law or comply with legal process served on our company or the
site; (b) protect and defend the rights or property of our company, including the MMORPG.COM
Web site; or (c) act under exigent circumstances to protect the
personal safety of users of MMORPG.COM, its web sites, or the public.

So yes, under normal circumstances MMORPG.com should never disclose your personal information to anyone without your express permission, EXCEPT "if they are required by law to do so or in the good faith belief that such action is necessary..."

The wonderful thing about the law, policies, et. al., is that there are always loopholes.

But they know that action is not necessary. MMORPG.com have no obligation to release anyone's information without a court order.

They can't have it held against them in a lawsuit. If another party is entitled to that information they will have no problem getting a court order for it.

I don't buy it that they believe that the action is necessary and neither should you.

cumbom · June 2006

I would really like to see a post in here from MMORPG.COM Staff.

Please clarify your Privacy Policy for us.

If you intend to release our information please change the Privacy policy and be more specific, so that the users of this site can be made aware of what exactly your intentions are.

voodookhan · June 2006

Originally posted by cumbom
Surprise the legal agreement Enigma was talking about was not a legal agreement, an NDA is just a promise, not a legally binding one.

Depends on how the NDA is worded. Some are, some are not...it's dependent on the wording. Some NDAs given out for game betas do not have the proper wording to make them legally binding, you are correct. Others may have the proper wording and are therefore legally binding. However that's not really the point is it. The point is you don't want MMORPG.com to give your personal information out to a 3rd party for any reason (unless they are forced to by law). The Privacy Policy tells you clearly that they can give your personal information out to a 3rd party for any reason they deem, "in the good faith" to protect their company. As other have already said, they don't want to piss of these 3rd parties. PERIOD. MMORPG being a haven for people to go to and freely break the NDAs they agree to (legally binding or not) would jepordize MMORPG's reputation with this 3rd parties and therefore jepordize the safety of the company.

Hotcell · June 2006

You know about doctor-patient confidientiality?

You know if you confess to a doctor that you are going to kill someone, they are obligated to report you?

Same case here.

MMORPG's interest is well... mmorpg. If you break NDA and thus undermining a MMORPG, they will report you.

Why are you trying to play the legal system when you are breaking the law (NDA) in the first place?

Valharan · June 2006

Thier intention is to protect thier assets and main source of revenue which is the advertisers and mmorpg production companys. To do this they need to prove on a continual basis that the production company assets are safe in the hands of the people who frequent this site. When game production companys start to lose faith in MMORPG.com they will end thier relationship with MMORPG.com. No new information regarding games in development or already released means no source of customers for the advertisers who pay for ads on this site. Which in turns means no money for MMORPG.com.

Thus in order to show good faith to the production companys and to protect MMORPG.com as stated in article b) of the privacy policy they will release account information to the relevant production company.

Your argument has no basis and only the people who are breaking NDA and posting on here in the first place (the true guilty party) need worry about the state of thier personal information.

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by voodookhan

Originally posted by cumbom
Surprise the legal agreement Enigma was talking about was not a legal agreement, an NDA is just a promise, not a legally binding one.

Depends on how the NDA is worded. Some are, some are not...it's dependent on the wording. Some NDAs given out for game betas do not have the proper wording to make them legally binding, you are correct. Others may have the proper wording and are therefore legally binding. However that's not really the point is it. The point is you don't want MMORPG.com to give your personal information out to a 3rd party for any reason (unless they are forced to by law). The Privacy Policy tells you clearly that they can give your personal information out to a 3rd party for any reason they deem, "in the good faith" to protect their company. As other have already said, they don't want to piss of these 3rd parties. PERIOD. MMORPG being a haven for people to go to and freely break the NDAs they agree to (legally binding or not) would jepordize MMORPG's reputation with this 3rd parties and therefore jepordize the safety of the company.

Its not the wording that makes them legally binding its the lack of consideration. And the highlighted part is not what it says read it again.

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by Hotcell

You know about doctor-patient confidientiality?
You know if you confess to a doctor that you are going to kill someone, they are obligated to report you?
Same case here.
MMORPG's interest is well... mmorpg. If you break NDA and thus undermining a MMORPG, they will report you.
Why are you trying to play the legal system when you are breaking the law (NDA) in the first place?

NDA's are not law

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by Valharan

Thier intention is to protect thier assets and main source of revenue which is the advertisers and mmorpg production companys. To do this they need to prove on a continual basis that the production company assets are safe in the hands of the people who frequent this site. When game production companys start to lose faith in MMORPG.com they will end thier relationship with MMORPG.com. No new information regarding games in development or already released means no source of customers for the advertisers who pay for ads on this site. Which in turns means no money for MMORPG.com.

Thus in order to show good faith to the production companys and to protect MMORPG.com as stated in article b) of the privacy policy they will release account information to the relevant production company.

Your argument has no basis and only the people who are breaking NDA and posting on here in the first place (the true guilty party) need worry about the state of thier personal information.

That is not what is said in the Privacy Policy.

I am sure they can just delete posts, threads, and ban accounts of people breaking NDAs if what they want to do is protect potential advertisers.

Valharan · June 2006

Originally posted by cumbom

NDA's are not law

MMORPG Privacy Policy (Relevant Parts):

MMORPG.COM never sells or shares any of your personal information with other parties. All information is strictly for internal use and all e-mails are only sent from our facilities.

MMORPG.COM may access and/or disclose your personal information if required to do so by law or in the good faith belief that such action is necessary to: (a) conform to the edicts of the law or comply with legal process served on our company or the site; (b) protect and defend the rights or property of our company, including the MMORPG.COM Web site; or (c) act under exigent circumstances to protect the personal safety of users of MMORPG.COM, its web sites, or the public.

Read very carefully the highlighted text in no way shape or form does it state that if ordered by law is that the only time they will release your information.

They will release your information if ordered by law AND in the good fath beliief that such action is necessary.

They are protecting thier assets and have every right to do so. People who break NDA's however forfiet thier right's to privacy as per the privacy policy they agreed to when signing up for this site.

I seriously doubt the loss of a few members who are worried they will be caught by production companys they are beta testing games with for breaking NDA's is going to effect anyone except the guilty party.

Hotcell · June 2006

Someone seriously needs to get a life.

So you break the NDA and get banned.... so?

You deserve it

I suggest you log out, rather than waiting for a staff reply. I'm sure even if other members here post some really good arguments, you will find some way to ignore them... coz that's what you are. A self-rightouesness kid

edit : Actually if I'm a staff member, I would want to say: We do it because we like it.

Valharan · June 2006

Originally posted by cumbom

NDA's are not law

MMORPG Privacy Policy (Relevant Parts):

MMORPG.COM never sells or shares any of your personal information with other parties. All information is strictly for internal use and all e-mails are only sent from our facilities.

MMORPG.COM may access and/or disclose your personal information if required to do so by law or in the good faith belief that such action is necessary to: (a) conform to the edicts of the law or comply with legal process served on our company or the site; (b) protect and defend the rights or property of our company, including the MMORPG.COM Web site; or (c) act under exigent circumstances to protect the personal safety of users of MMORPG.COM, its web sites, or the public.

Read very carefully the highlighted text in no way shape or form does it state that if ordered by law is that the only time they will release your information.

They will release your information if ordered by law AND in the good fath beliief that such action is necessary.

They are protecting thier assets and have every right to do so. People who break NDA's however forfiet thier right's to privacy as per the privacy policy they agreed to when signing up for this site.

I seriously doubt the loss of a few members who are worried they will be caught by production companys they are beta testing games with for breaking NDA's is going to effect anyone except the guilty party.

Valharan · June 2006

Originally posted by cumbom

That is not what is said in the Privacy Policy.

I am sure they can just delete posts, threads, and ban accounts of people breaking NDAs if what they want to do is protect potential advertisers.

That is exactly what the privacy policy says.

Why would they ban accounts? the same people can once again sign up for a free account and continue posting said pictures/revies of the beta still under an NDA. Furthermore that same destructive person is now free to go to other sites and do the same thing there with less chance of getting caught because now they are aware of the fact that all that will likely happen is a ban from said site.

Whats really at stake is the production companys faith in MMORPG.com and related sites that the offenders will be reported so that they may be removed from the beta under said NDA without risking leaking further information.

Really whats so hard to understand about that. If you wanted to protect your livelyhood I'm sure you personally would go to much greater lengths than this to do it.

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by Valharan

Originally posted by cumbom
NDA's are not law

MMORPG Privacy Policy (Relevant Parts):

MMORPG.COM never sells or shares any of your personal information with other parties. All information is strictly for internal use and all e-mails are only sent from our facilities.

MMORPG.COM may access and/or disclose your personal information if required to do so by law or in the good faith belief that such action is necessary to: (a) conform to the edicts of the law or comply with legal process served on our company or the site; (b) protect and defend the rights or property of our company, including the MMORPG.COM Web site; or (c) act under exigent circumstances to protect the personal safety of users of MMORPG.COM, its web sites, or the public.

Read very carefully the highlighted text in no way shape or form does it state that if ordered by law is that the only time they will release your information.

They will release your information if ordered by law AND in the good fath beliief that such action is necessary.

They are protecting thier assets and have every right to do so. People who break NDA's however forfiet thier right's to privacy as per the privacy policy they agreed to when signing up for this site.

I seriously doubt the loss of a few members who are worried they will be caught by production companys they are beta testing games with for breaking NDA's is going to effect anyone except the guilty party.

Now you read it very carefully.

(b) protect and defend the rights or property of our company, including the MMORPG.COM Web site;

Releasing a posters personal information is not done to defend the "rights" or "property" of MMORPG.COM

People who break NDAs do not forfeit their right ot privacy as per the privacy policy, there is no part of the privacy policy that states that MMORPG.com will enforce agreements, or do anything with your information in accordance with agreements that does not involve them.

Valharan · June 2006

Sweet mother of mercy no one is this dense.

I just asked my legal councel the esteemed Prof. Freddy Mercury, and he informed me you are wrong I am right.

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by Valharan
Sweet mother of mercy no one is this dense.

Apparently you are.

nomadian · June 2006

mmorpg.com are taking a stance against people breaking NDA's, don't see what is so wrong about that. Though perhaps instead of forwarding their details on, the people be warned or banned instead?

seabass2003 · June 2006

Originally posted by cumbom

Originally posted by Valharan
Sweet mother of mercy no one is this dense.

Apparently you are.

Your an idiot. I thought you were leaving MMORPG.COM anyways.

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by nomadian
mmorpg.com are taking a stance against people breaking NDA's, don't see what is so wrong about that. Though perhaps instead of forwarding their details on, the people be warned or banned instead?

I agree. All I am saying is that MMORPG.COM should not break their privacy policy. However else they want to make sure the NDA's aren't violated is up to them.

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by Valharan

Sweet mother of mercy no one is this dense.
I just asked my legal councel the esteemed Prof. Freddy Mercury, and he informed me you are wrong I am right.

Hmm. I believe you?

No.

Darkentwo · June 2006

Cumbom you're making no sense. Shutup already.

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