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WMD's found in Iraq.

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  • lardmouthlardmouth Member Posts: 701

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/02/kay.report/

    "We have discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during the inspections that began in late 2002. The discovery of these deliberate concealment efforts have come about both through the admissions of Iraqi scientists and officials concerning information they deliberately withheld and through physical evidence of equipment and activities that ISG has discovered that should have been declared to the UN. Let me just give you a few examples of these concealment efforts, some of which I will elaborate on later:

    · A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research.

    · A prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of BW agents, that Iraqi officials working to prepare for UN inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the UN.

    · Reference strains of biological organisms concealed in a scientist's home, one of which can be used to produce biological weapons.

    · New research on BW-applicable agents, Brucella and Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever (CCHF), and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin were not declared to the UN.

    · Documents and equipment, hidden in scientists' homes, that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation (EMIS).

    · A line of UAVs not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 km, 350 km beyond the permissible limit.

    · Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited SCUD variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the UN.

    · Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1000 km -- well beyond the 150 km range limit imposed by the UN. Missiles of a 1000 km range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets through out the Middle East, including Ankara, Cairo, and Abu Dhabi.

    · Clandestine attempts between late-1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300 km range ballistic missiles --probably the No Dong -- 300 km range anti-ship cruise missiles, and other prohibited military equipment

  • lardmouthlardmouth Member Posts: 701

    The above is just a sample that Saddam was, and had been, in material breach of multiple resolutions since the end of the Gulf War.

  • VercadesVercades Member Posts: 1,065
    Hmm I can see why they don't want to go back into the debate.
  • VercadesVercades Member Posts: 1,065


    Originally posted by britoca

    Originally posted by methane47
    What do you think the U.N. would find if they did an inspection of the USA?

    you think america would hide some of their technology/weapons?

    if they hid it before, they're hiding it now.



    Actually no, the US has been transparent in the UN more then anyone that actually pays their dues.
  • methane47methane47 Member UncommonPosts: 3,694
    And you know this because? You know the top secret materials and experiments that go on in the USA.
    i have a friend old guy served in a buncha wars and stuff.... And I asked him a couple questions... and He got all serious and was like... "there are somethings that I just can't talk about. Top secret stuff... And i'm sorry but I just can't talk about it."

    And I think to myself... What in the world.. could be sooo secretive about the US army/navy/airforce that 15 years after the guy retires from the military he still can't talk about it. Then I figrue.... if I knew... I'd probably have to die....lol
    anyways..... If you really believe that the US of A is being totatly transparent and doesn't have things/experiments/illegal things going on behind the scenes... well... I guess you're not seeing the reality that every country has to keep secrets so that they can do things without having to leave themselves open, vunerable...

    Look i have nothing against america fighting Iraq... But i do have something against the fact that it seems to me like this whole war isn't really about WMD's at all.. and they dont want to tell us what the real motivation is.


    image
    What's your Wu Name?
    Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
    Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
    "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
    <i>ME<i>

  • VercadesVercades Member Posts: 1,065

    Cspan mostly.

  • methane47methane47 Member UncommonPosts: 3,694
    wellll... CSpan IS very resourceful

    image
    What's your Wu Name?
    Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
    Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
    "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
    <i>ME<i>

  • VercadesVercades Member Posts: 1,065

    Fine, I don't watch Cspan enough to know everything about it I find it terribly boring and can only stand 20 minutes of it.  But, I heard the other countries not paying their dues notion from a moderator on another forum in another discussion.  Could be wrong as much as anyone else.

    Thing is trust can't survive in doubt.  Saddam betrayed the U.S. in the WMD weapons deal.  People want to blame Rumsfield for this cause of his diplomatic visit to Iraq.

    I just don't understand why people hate Bush so much and, they hate him for all the wrong reasons.  He's tryed his best he's done all he can and, at his wits end at many things.  He's looked over thousands of thousands of documents signed and, did many things to help stimulate the economy at the same time preventing another terristic attack on out country.

    Is it wrong to want to believe in the Commander and Chief or, should we all accuse every leader that makes it into office of anything at our disposal?  All this questioning of the government's loyalty prevents people in our country from voting and, actually getting better candidates in the office.  Offer something somewhat positive to the public and, people might actually start caring.

  • VormVorm Member Posts: 22
    The reason most people (liberals/democrats) hate GWB?  Bush vs. Gore 2000.  that right there cemented thier dislike, no matter what.  He could have transformed this country into a Utopian Society, a shining beacon for the world to emulate and they STILL would hate him...virulently...completely.

    The reason I dislike Bush and crew?  Arrogance, incompetance and blindness.  mix those three traits and what do you get?  why, a situation that we are in now...


  • VercadesVercades Member Posts: 1,065

    So their hatred of Bush is of no logical sense acording to you?  Makes sense to me.

    I don't know exactly how bad it really is only thing that has affected me is the gas prices everything else not so much.

    On a side note, secrets are kept to prevent people from taking advantage of the secret.  About the same reason a doctor wouldn't want everyone knowing about his legal issues.  Somethings just happen and, life goes on.

    BTW, I'm a registered Democrat.

  • methane47methane47 Member UncommonPosts: 3,694

    No i dont hate Bush because of the War... To tell you the truth the war is just a small thing... for me... I think it's neccessary just the overhead to it was obviously lies and fabricated truths.... Anyways
    I dislike bush because of his local descisions..

    His no child left behind that has even more children left behind now and left more schools without funding.

    His tax cuts that tax us more..

    His endorsing of NSA spying

    His backing up of Tax breaks for rich peoeple
    His trying to destroy the estate tax... (who does it affect? rich people)

    His putting ill equipt soldiers in harms way (bad body armor)

    Homeland Security....... Who exactly is that securing?

    Immigration issues?

    trying to block pharmacuticals from Canada? Because aparantly Canadian medicine is badddd...

    Forcing Canadians near the border to purchase an expensive ID card to get into the US? For what? THE CANadian illegal IMmigrant problem??!!? come on!?!

    his obvious incompetance on anything regarding anything remotely important. I am upset at bush because He in most speaches or QA sessions or press conferences.... He almost always has no clue of what he's talking about... and He just plays it off with a joke... or makes fun of the person who questioned him.

    I dont understand how he can be a good president when He hasn't SHOWn how he can be good.
    Didn't he personally select the people from FEMA? not sure... anyways... He doesn't really have anything about him that was successful... He's run a couple companies... all tanked... He isn't showing me he can be a good leader... Ok.. he can throw a football. I'll give him that. And he can conduct a War... I'll give him that...
    But i want to know what real good has he done for America?



    image
    What's your Wu Name?
    Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
    Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
    "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
    <i>ME<i>

  • hazmatshazmats Member Posts: 1,081

    I don't lke the estate tax because it occurs at the death of a person.  Just because somone is rich doesn't mean they should be taxed for everything they do.

  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457

    Outside of America people hate Bush because he reminds them of Hitler. They think he is the single biggest threat to world peace on the planet and is actively trying to start World War 3. 

    On a lesser note they don't like his protectionist trade policies and they don't like his stance on the enviroment. Whatever he does inside the U.S., no one cares about at all. Do what you like in your own country.

  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457


    Originally posted by lardmouth

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/02/kay.report/
    "We have discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during the inspections that began in late 2002. The discovery of these deliberate concealment efforts have come about both through the admissions of Iraqi scientists and officials concerning information they deliberately withheld and through physical evidence of equipment and activities that ISG has discovered that should have been declared to the UN. Let me just give you a few examples of these concealment efforts, some of which I will elaborate on later:
    · A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research.
    · A prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of BW agents, that Iraqi officials working to prepare for UN inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the UN.
    · Reference strains of biological organisms concealed in a scientist's home, one of which can be used to produce biological weapons.
    · New research on BW-applicable agents, Brucella and Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever (CCHF), and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin were not declared to the UN.
    · Documents and equipment, hidden in scientists' homes, that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation (EMIS).
    · A line of UAVs not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 km, 350 km beyond the permissible limit.
    · Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited SCUD variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the UN.
    · Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1000 km -- well beyond the 150 km range limit imposed by the UN. Missiles of a 1000 km range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets through out the Middle East, including Ankara, Cairo, and Abu Dhabi.
    · Clandestine attempts between late-1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300 km range ballistic missiles --probably the No Dong -- 300 km range anti-ship cruise missiles, and other prohibited military equipment


    This is the kay report, it has nothing to do with the U.N.

    The U.N. report is the Blix report.

    The important thing to remember about the U.N. is that while anyone may provide evidence to the U.N, only the U.N. council can make a decision. They decided that they didn't have enough evidence, or that evidence was not damning enough to warrant military action.

    What Kay has to say about it is a red herring. It is not for any single country to decide what is and what isn't against U.N. rulings. The whole point of the U.N. is that after WW2 this dangerous kind of unilateralism should never happen again. We have a council so that the individual needs or wishes of any given country are tempered by the wishes of all the others.


  • methane47methane47 Member UncommonPosts: 3,694


    Originally posted by hazmats

    I don't lke the estate tax because it occurs at the death of a person.  Just because somone is rich doesn't mean they should be taxed for everything they do.


    A proverb comes to mind here.
    To whom much is given, much is required.

    Because of the capitalistic Goverment, the little man is just getting poorer and poorer and the rich are getting richer. While lower class people live pay check to pay check... or maybe they are alittle more well off. They are still struggling. While upper class people just sit there accumating money. They are more than able to give more back to the community.

    ANDD estate tax isn't only for the rich. It's for everyone. But the thing is while a lower class person may get
    1,000 - 50,000 in assets.. (no basis just supposition) a rich person can get millions.

    It doesn't seem fair that Just so a rich person can keep the 50,000 dollars they pay in taxes... the government has to cut funding to schools... hospitals... government agencies.... ORR increase other taxes to make up for the loss.. and Guess who that kills... The lower class people.

    image
    What's your Wu Name?
    Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
    Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
    "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
    <i>ME<i>

  • VercadesVercades Member Posts: 1,065

    reply @ methane47

    911 botched up his no child left behind plan.

    He thought the tax cut would help us instead it proved wrong, but tax over here doesn't happen till you've made enough to be taxed which is I think around 20,000.  If you don't make enough they just give you all you made back.

    The estate tax effects both rich and poor, poor even worse then rich.

    He didn't put them in harms way on purpose, things change and situations adapt republican's called for more money in armed forces democrats tryed to stop it.

    Homeland security.. an attack hasn't happened on US soil since 911, so far it's working.

    Immigration issues aren't issues if they go thru the process legally, which I know is a pain..

    Canada's medicine.. I don't know enough about the problem there honestly.

  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457

    The problem with inheritance tax is that I am penalised for seeking to provide for my children.

    We live in an upwardly mobile society and it is perfectly reasonable for a lower class person to become an upper class person in one lifetime.

    If however I work my whole life to build a family home that is big enough and well built enough to house my children and my childrens children for generations to come, the state may take that away from them. kick them out of something that has taken a lifetime to build and is their birthright. I give my life for the next generation, sacrifce my work for my childrens betterment and a complete stranger comes along and steals it. It goes against human nature.

    It doesn't seem fair that a person who works twice as hard as his peers to get ahead for himself and his family has to have that taken from him to support someone who worked half as hard and saved nothing. Or, as is more likely to pay for some fat politicians holiday. There are only two classes left in our societies, the political classes and the rest.

    If you don't allow people to be rewarded for their hard work, no one will work hard. If financial rewards are granted to people who earn less, then more people will earn less.

    The whole lower class argument is a very weak one in western societies. Even poor people here are rich by global standards. Redistribution of wealth is alright until it's your wealth they redistribute. It very important to leave those people with the ability to generate wealth, the motivation to do so.

  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457


    Originally posted by Vercades

    Homeland security.. an attack hasn't happened on US soil since 911, so far it's working.


    Since there isn't any significant resident Islamic communities in the U.S. this isn't really such an impressive achievement. N.B. there hadn't been an attack in U.S. soil for 60 years to that previously. Homeland security really doesn't have so much to do with it.
  • methane47methane47 Member UncommonPosts: 3,694

    This is taken from the IRS website http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=108143,00.html


    The Estate Tax is a tax on your right to transfer property at your
    death. It consists of an accounting of everything you own or have
    certain interests in at the date of death (Refer to Form 706).
    The fair market value of these items is used, not necessarily what you
    paid for them or what their values were when you acquired them. The
    total of all of these items is your "Gross Estate." The includible
    property may consist of Cash and Securities, Real Estate, Insurance,
    Trusts, Annuities, Business interests and other assets.

    Once you have accounted for the Gross Estate, certain deductions
    (and in special circumstances, reductions to value) are allowed in
    arriving at your "Taxable Estate." These deductions may include
    Mortgages and other Debts, Estate Administration expenses, property
    that passes to Surviving Spouses and Qualified Charities. The value of
    some operating business interests or farms may be reduced for estates
    that qualify.

    After the net amount is computed, the value of lifetime taxable
    gifts (beginning with gifts made in 1977) is added to this number and
    the tax is computed. The tax is then reduced by the available unified
    credit. Presently, the amount of this credit reduces the computed tax
    so that only total taxable estates and lifetime gifts that exceed
    $1,000,000 will actually have to pay tax. In its current form, the
    estate tax only affects the wealthiest 2% of all Americans.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well I say if you have more than a milliion dollars in assets... then your kids already dont have much to worry about.

    edit: --> I guess i was wrong in my previous post because I really assumed that estate tax taxed everyone..... well it kinda does.. just some are exempt...

    image
    What's your Wu Name?
    Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
    Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
    "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
    <i>ME<i>

  • methane47methane47 Member UncommonPosts: 3,694


    Originally posted by Vercades

    reply @ methane47
    Homeland security.. an attack hasn't happened on US soil since 911, so far it's working.


    People always say this like its a big thing. Americans have already shown that Homeland security doesn't work.
    An ex cop I think last week walked into the Homeland Security Headquarters with a Mexican fake ID... now if that isn't hillarious i dont know what is. Then the guy wrote an article about how bad homeland security is.. (Something to that effect may have the details wrong)

    Anyways people act as if there were terrorist attacts everyday before homeland security.... It's only been a couple years... Apparently Homeland Security didn't even know about the new york subway terrorist plan... the terrorists themselves called it off... Maybe their feeling sorry for us.. i dont know...

    image
    What's your Wu Name?
    Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
    Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
    "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
    <i>ME<i>

  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457

    I pay 40% on anything over £285,000.

    Average house price here is £185,000.

    Income on $1,000,000 = average wage for one person in the U.K., so if I have assets of $1,000,000 the govt would take 40%, leaving my child on low income or if I have 2 children below the poverty line.

    A million sounds like alot of money but it isn't. Buy a house out of that money, and then take a 20th a year in income. You won't be rich.

  • methane47methane47 Member UncommonPosts: 3,694


    Originally posted by baff

    I pay 40% on anything over £285,000.
    Average house price here is £185,000.


    ooohhhhhhh you're not IN america... Yeah well I can't vouch for England.. Sorry that they tax you so much...

    image
    What's your Wu Name?
    Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
    Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
    "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
    <i>ME<i>

  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457


    Originally posted by methane47

    Originally posted by baff

    I pay 40% on anything over £285,000.
    Average house price here is £185,000.

    ooohhhhhhh you're not IN america... Yeah well I can't vouch for England.. Sorry that they tax you so much...


    Thanks, probably not as sorry as I am.

    Essentially I don't like inheritance tax, I feel it undermines family values and replaces the emphasis for social care and responsability from the family unit to the state. It's Stalinist and I'm not into it.

    The U.S. has great tax laws. I thought quite seriously about emigrating there a few years back. i remember a great interview about inheritance tax with Bill Gates's dad.

    He was arguing that taxing the parents was a good a thing. He sounded pretty reasonable too, and his son is the worlds richest man. And then I realised. His son is the worlds richest man, what could he possibly finacially leave him that would make any difference.

  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457

    We don't go to war with countries that have WMD.

    We only go to war with those that don't.

  • methane47methane47 Member UncommonPosts: 3,694


    Originally posted by jdun1




    WMD has been reported since 2003 but CNN and other liberal
    new organizations decided not to run them or drum them down to make it look
    like they were misinformed. A lot of WMD was shipped to Syria from Iraq before
    the war started. This was in a military a report a few months after the war was
    over. This is nothing new. I found it funny the liberals can’t admit that they
    were wrong. Now the posters here are trying to defect this information by
    saying that the US has WMD too. So what. This is not the USA this is about if
    Iraq has WMD and why we went to war.



     

    The next thing they will say that the Republican will
    steal the election. Good. We steal this one and the next and many more after
    that.



    The war is Over? Really?

    And The US can't just go to everycountry that has WMD's when ever they want and against the wishes of the U.N. and be vigilantes and alla that. That's not right.


    image
    What's your Wu Name?
    Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
    Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
    "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
    <i>ME<i>

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