I kind of luaghed when I read some of the posts here. I play CoX and the server populations are alive and well.
There are heroes and villians everywhere, never a shortage. Someone trying to spin some kind of propoganda here?
Task Forces and groups are always going, I do 1-2 Task Forces almost daily, there is always interest and there are always enough players out there to make up full groups any level no matter what time of the day I log on. I can't say the same when I logged onto EQ before cancelling my accounts over there.
I really would like to see some hardcore facts that you all are claiming all this doom and gloom from cause from my perspective while actually playing the game I am not seeing it.
Are all you negative posters actually still playing the game?
Pscythe: I agree, I read your post before you edit.
State = Ohio. I thought they were in San Jose, Ohio is close enough
Originally posted by baff Nerfs have less to do with balance and more to do with player retention and powerleveling. I haven't seen any overpowered AT's in this game. I haven't seen any player made obselete by another build. I have seen a player made obselete by the nerfs.
The Short: Nerfs were needed.
The Long: Going back to prior issues where the nerf hammer hit and were needed. Gadget Blasters, those guys were seriously overpowered. 6 slot slow into Caltrops and you had no risk. Throw in the pet machine gun an it was a gooey mess (Warwolves were the favored victims of Gadget Blasters since at that time they had no range attacks)
Invunerable Tanks, PreIssue 2 or 3 (can't remember) they actually found high end tanks could actually have a defence over 100% Huge nerf stick to their defense. (wish we had a emoticons with a smiley with a nerf bat)
Tank Herding made controllers obselete for a time. Scrappers, untill they got their crit ability were sub par melee fighters.
AOE effects such as Rain of Fire, Caltrops, Ice Patch, Fire Patch. Creatures would stay in those zones, not trying to get away, they would just stay in those zones...anyone with knockback were told not to use their powers to attack.
These are examples of Nerfs that were needed to address game balance, class overpowering and also to make a person's play style/class not become obselete.
Now I know that you can come back with nerfes that made us all go Wiskey Tango Foxtrot! My response to those ones is that there was possibly game data to support those changes. Cryptic has also rolled back nerfs after players have pointed out data to support their point.
They have also went a step farther then most people expected. Remember that Supression was a result of a lot of people outraged that they could not hit while a travel power was on. The no hit/travel power was introduced due to the "Jousting" people would do; made more apparent when they introduced the Areana. "Jousting" was always there, but not brought to light untill they observed it in the Arena.
For those that don't know, Jousting was like a drive by shooting. You'd run up using your travel power, activate your attack, and continue running past. The animation would kick in showing you hitting the enemy, after you ran past them. This provided a person no risk because by the time the mob of creatures would react, the person would be out of aggro range.
I'll put it this way. You can hate the game, but you can be civil about it. Respect those who currently enjoy the game. Offer thoughtful arguments and avoid going on like a broken record (For those who are younger, that's like a CD only bigger )
I posted the State of the Game to show the the game is evolving, changing, and is getting better. The article also pointed out the current negative aspects of the game. Overall a balanced and informative review.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
The Long: Going back to prior issues where the nerf hammer hit and were needed. Gadget Blasters, those guys were seriously overpowered. 6 slot slow into Caltrops and you had no risk. Throw in the pet machine gun an it was a gooey mess (Warwolves were the favored victims of Gadget Blasters since at that time they had no range attacks)
Tank Herding made controllers obselete for a time. Scrappers, untill they got their crit ability were sub par melee fighters.
AOE effects such as Rain of Fire, Caltrops, Ice Patch, Fire Patch. Creatures would stay in those zones, not trying to get away, they would just stay in those zones...anyone with knockback were told not to use their powers to attack.
These are examples of Nerfs that were needed to address game balance, class overpowering and also to make a person's play style/class not become obselete.
The short, the nerfs were needed to slow down levelling by fee paying players.
The only gadget Blaster I ever played with was a domino he fell over so much. I can't agree from experience that any nerf to his build was necessary. A buff maybe. Buffing scrappers? I have no problam with buffs. Buffs don't take anything away.
Tank Herding never made controllers obselete in any game I ever played. In fact Tanks herding monkeys on monkey island made controllers very happy to be in their teams. At no point in any game I played was rounding up scores of bad guys to be mega zapped by blasters the job of a controller, or even aggroing them.Tank herding was removed because of power levelling in Drecks. Plain and simple. People were leveling to 50 in 5 days and it was stinging NCSOFTs revenues.
AOE effects vs knockback. Seems an obvious and intuitive tactitcal situation, what's the problem? Players aren't allowed to interact anymore? What did you recommend, nerf AOE's or nerf Knockback?
Considering you think these nerfs were to stop AT/playstyles becoming obselete, the nerfs you have cited all have that exact end result. Tanks can no longer Herd, AOE's can no longer area zap dummkopfs and gadget blasters can no longer prey off their personal weakest foes the Warwolves, using their gadgets for the obvious and designed purpose.
AOE easy victims = fast experience.
Herding up large numbers = fast experience.
Killing vast numbers of Warwolves = fast experience.
The short, the nerfs were needed to slow down levelling by fee paying players.
Which is why all the arguments for nerfs about "the good of the game" and "balance" are so damned disingenuous, and why the devs' true motives are all so transparent!
Most of these so called "exploits" (fighting with travel powers on, for instance) were allowed to go on for a year or more before the devs finally decided to implement nerfs. And BTW, looking at the IR, suppression (along with other nerfs) coincided with falling subscription levels!
Faced with falling revenue levels (through falling subs) and unable to get content out quickly enough, the devs turned to the one thing they knew (or believed) would keep people playing longer: slow down the game (suppression), weaken builds (nerfs) and reduce the amount of XP gained for streetsweeping, GMs, and Krakens.
In other words, reduce the rate at which people could gain XP. Make players grind every toon to 50 without the benefit of Kraken farming, herding, or GM hunting, and they believed that would keep subs up.
What they failed to realize is that - especially for the casual player - grinding to 50 wasn't fun and hardly worth the investment in time or money it takes to get there, especially since you realize that the "toys" you get by the time you reach 50 versus the foes you fight there make you feel like a level 1 all over again, especially now with ED.
The people that are still in the game don't mind the grind. The people that have left, or refuse to pay to play, find the grind too much like work. I get paid to work. I don't pay to work.
What the devs have done is remove playstyles and variety, making an already narrowly focused, incredibly shallow grind even moreso. Herding wasn't always fun anymore than doing dozens of consecutive door missions was, anymore than hours of streetsweeping was or powerlevelling was. But when you got tired of one, there was always something else you could do to get you through the boredom or grind. A change of pace kept the game fresh and fun.
The devs have worked harder at taking variety out of the game than adding to it and that's why the game will ultimately fail. Once upon a time, the players could play in a manner that they found entertaining. Now everyone has to play in a manner that Emmert finds entertaining.
Sorry, but an arrogant a-hole like that isn't going to dictate to me what I find fun.
The only gadget Blaster I ever played with was a domino he fell over so much. I can't agree from experience that any nerf to his build was necessary. A buff maybe. Buffing scrappers? I have no problam with buffs. Buffs don't take anything away.
I assume that by gadget blaster you mean the devices secondary yes? AKA the /regen of blasters? My only 50 in CoH is an energy/devices blaster that I had since release and it most assuredly was ungodly overpowered at release as a secondary. Personally I actively avoided the overpowered powers untill I knew a fix was in the works, it felt like cheating to take advantage of it, but I still wanted to see exactly how bad it was.
The caltrops power could be slotted with slow enhancements and thrown down so much that it worked like a location based AoE immobilize that the worked on all enemies regardless of their magnitude, and at the same time it would be doing some ok damage. All in all, kinda overpowered when you combined that with the big AoE blasting sets of fire and assault rifle.
The other hugely overpowered thing was the smoke grenade. In its current version it provides a very minor accuracy debuff that lasts for around 20 seconds, makes it harder for enemies to percieve you (though the act of throwing it makes you visible to the enemies anyway ... stupid), and requires an accuracy check. Not a 'have to have' power, kind of skipable actually. In its original version however, it was an auto hit against all the enemies in its fairly large AoE, lasted longer than 20 seconds, and due to a boneheaded coding error gave a 100% accuracy debuff.
Those were utterly understandable nerfs. Truly and understandable. The ones that came after on the other hand ... weren't. They made it harder for the trip mines to go off, sometimes not going off even if mobs are standing right on top of them (undocumented nerf first showed up in I3 I think). The defensive benifits of the cloaking device was both reduced and then made to half supress when you were in combat. ED made it so the trip mine no longer was able to take out a minion in one shot when slotted for its maximum damage capabilities. To-hit buff enhancers were reduced in effectiveness around the same time as ED working as a double whammy on the targeting drone.
Still, with all that being said, my /dev blaster dies very rarely in PvE. <shrug>
A buff maybe. Buffing scrappers? I have no problam with buffs. Buffs don't take anything away.
As much as I wish that was always true, sometimes a nerf really is just that needed. Now, usually devs nerf a bit too much for my personal taste, but you get into odd issues if you just always buff. Take fire tankers and their burn patches. I remember back when fire tankers would go, herd up the entire map without being in any danger of death, place their burn patches, and then just keep placing them while they defeated the entire herd of mobs in very short order. This was with the fire tanks teamed with defenders, scrappers, blasters and controllers. So in theory you'd have the tank to grab aggro and herd a good chunk of the map with the defender keeping them alive along with the controller locking down portions of the mob in danger of overwhelming the tank, and then have the damage dealers (blaster/scrapper) head in and take out the mobs safe from harm because the controller and tank are dealing with the aggro. You'd actually have the one fire tank join the team, folks would start the mission and just sit inside the door and chat while the tank did everything in the mission, and then everyone would move to the next and repeat the thing.
In that instance what would you do to buff? Increase the damage or health of the mobs to where the tank would need the help of the rest of the team? If you did that then you'd end up with mobs that would utterly lay waste to any of the non-tanks in the game. I mean, what do you buff so that there's any need for the rest of the team that doesn't require a buff to almost everything in the game as opposed to the simple answer ... just nerfing burn so that the tank needs the rest of the team.
Tank Herding never made controllers obselete in any game I ever played.
The main issue I had with herding and my grav controller was that if the tank has all 100+ mobs in the map on him/her ... and there's next to no possibility of them dying, then what exactly was my grav controller supposed to do? Just kinda sit there and get free xp?
On the other hand, herding and my energy blaster went very, very well together. You haven't known entertainment untill you've smacked several hundred monkies back a few dozen feet with a nova at once. Ahhh, a thing of beauty. The current 32 I can hit now just isn't quite as fun.
Still fun though.
gadget blasters can no longer prey off their personal weakest foes the Warwolves
Um ... how were war wolves a device blaster's weakest foe? If anything they were one of the ones to avoid. Oftentimes war wolves would have just a tad more health than my mines could take away in one shot. I'd much rather just be able to stealth into a mob and take it all out at once than go after things that do an ungodly amount of melee damage and still leave them a little bit alive at the end.
Ohh, you know what was really fun? Set up a minefield of like 8 mines while the tank's out herding, then having them go off and take out a huge chunk of the mobs at the end. I used to do it to fire tanks when they were uber, was fun to see them get upset that another member of the team would be defeating any of the mobs.
Killing vast numbers of Warwolves = fast experience.
The issue with the war wolves, and all the other nerfed missions that people used to farm to an insane amount was that folks would just do that one mission over and over and over and over and over and over and ... well you get the idea. They'd just do that one mission untill they hit 50 or some idiocy like that. Then a good half of those folks would go onto the CoH boards and complain that there was no content in the game and that there weren't any interesting mobs to fight. Then a good number of them would quit.
Now I'll grant you, the game most definately needs an end game. Oh good lord does it need one. Finally the dang devs are putting one in, issue 8 can't come soon enough I tell you. However, it just always seemed weird to me that folks would come onto chat boards and complain that there wasn't any content in the game, no new and fun things to fight and all that ... when they just had gone and skipped 10+ levels of said content. Never having done any of the task forces, and even oftentimes never having completed any of the story arcs.
Well, at least Serling has apperantely given up his attempts to twist numbers out of context to 'prove' the game is doomed. Aside from the fact that NCSoft has cut employees, I still feel that any producer company out there would love to have a game that has 182k subs at 15 bucks a month. That is an awful lot of cash flow. By the way, haven't mentioned it before, but seriously, Cryptic Studios owns the Cox brand, not NCSoft. They pay Emmert, his team, the girl who takes phone calls at the office, all that jazz. Stating that since NCSoft has cut employees is obvious evidence that Cox is faltering is assine at best, and misleading to say the least. When NCSoft can dictate how Cryptic runs it's office, then their cutbacks might make a difference in how they (Cryptic) operates; but they don't so it doesn't.
I'm not going to bother trying to argue against someone who obviously has a grudge against the game itself and twists numbers to serve his purpose: to try to show that since toons were nerfed, the game is DOOOOMMED!
Too bad Serling didn't say that in the first few pages of this thread, would have saved a lot of time for a lot of us.
Regarding the nerfs, well, a lot of toons got the nerf hammer, and I can't say that's a good thing all around. The taunt nerf for tanks was needed to help stop WW herding. IH was made a clicky to stop regen from being better at taking damage than a tank. Etc, etc....
It's never fun to get 'nerfed', but the devs of the game seem to think that it's the game itself, not the e-peen thrill of having 7 level 50's that's fun. I agree with them on that point. When I was in SWG, my BH could take most any Jedi I got a mark on, and it took a damn lot of time and energy looting, practicing, grinding, stalking, whatever to get to that point. Not saying I was some kind of uber BH or anything, there where plenty others who were much better than me. What I mean is I spent a lot of time getting myself to the point where I could take a bounty and be confident in it. How many stupid solo groups did I join to grind credits to get the best equpiment, how many times did I camp Aklay to help fellow guildies get their best loot drops? A lot, and when that was destroyed in the NGE I was personally offended (well, a bit, it is a game after all but still).
The nerfs in Cox aren't done to punish people, they aren't done to 'get those lousy fire tankers'; they are done to balance a game where if one person wants to be a defender or controller, they won't be literally useless if there is a tank or scrapper on the team. Remember how boring and stupid WW farmng was/is? I do, after maybe 3 farming runs I was done with farming, it's not for me. I enjoy the game, not the feeling of having multile level 50's.
My lfg comment is still 'won't farm, anything else please', and it works for me. My SG is a pvp based one and I get a lot of flak for not having more than one 50. I have several toons in their 40's, 2 at 48, but I can't farm, I just can't. It bores me silly running dreck 20 times in a row.
I wish there was level 50 content, I really do and can't argue that point one bit. I can't argue that we get nerfed in issue after issue. But as a player who isn't after having 'the leetest tank/scrapper on the server', someone who likes doing a few door missions every other day or so, it doesn't bother me. It's not EQ2, it's not SWG, or a game of that genre; it's a game about the journey to 50. After the nerfs occur, I can see more parity between the classes and powersets usually; actually, when I don't I go gripe on the forums and lo and behold, there is a dev response every now and then.
I posted like 40 times on how dumb people using TP foe to stick their targets in the towers in Siren's was. Drove me crazy, it was griefing to the letter. We got a response from Cuppa within a few days saying what we wanted to hear, that yes it was an exploit and was not cool to do to others. A few days later, poof!, we had doors in the towers so you wouldn't get stuck in there until you were TP'd out.
Sorry, I can see I'm rambling, I tend to do that... Anyways, I still enjoy this game, and so do a lot of others it seems. Have subs gone down? Sure, almost 9% according to Serling's numbers. Do I log on a mid 20's toon and not find a team within 5-10 minutes more often than I like? Yes.
But when I do find that pick up group, I can rest assured that they aren't a bunch of powerleveling min/maxers who will shoot me tells about how craptstic my build is, or judging my every move. They are people like me: someone playing a game we find enjoyable, nerfed or not.
Well, that's all I have to say really. I can't be bothered to listen to made up Econ 101 lessons. If you want to say the nerfage killed the game for you, great! Have the balls to come out and say it. Don't play Enron and use number games to try to prove a point, come out and say what you want to say. Like Bush in Iraq (oops! sorry to bring this up but...), you can't make stuff up to use as your argument, you just can't. You can make up stuff all day long, and get a lot of people to believe you since half the population is below average in intellignce. It doesn't make it true.
If the nerfage ruined the game for you, I am sorry. I've lost a few great friends to that, and we were going to meet in DnL, but that sure fell through lol! I feel you on the nerf thing, but as a non-powerleveler, I get over them fast since they really don't stop me from enjoying the game. I guess this is where we have to agree to disagree Serling.
@ hehe I thought those devices were a pool power. Shows what I know.
I used Warwolves as an example because the guy I was replying to did. I think any non ranged only mob will fit his caltrops tactic.
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I don't have any experience of I1 and I2 the game launched here at I3. (And got progressively worse for my money). I sat by for 3 nerfs and then fled for pastures new. While Nerfs maybe understandable, Nerfs every update are not. It is clear from the frequency that the developers are very limited both in the problems they are willing to address and the ways they wish to do so.
I've also been in missions in teams where the fire tank would do the level and the rest would sit back and chat.
Pretty boring stuff, but they could have joined in. It would have gone quicker if they did. When I first started power leveling Drecks, (no one had done it before on our server), our fire tank fought as part of the team. A few months later I joined a P level team and they all just sat there and chatted while the fire tank killed everything. I fought with the tank. That's not the kind of team I am looking for.
It's up to you how you play, all the game does is give you options.
People farming the same mission over and over again fits into this catagory. No one is forcing them to, they are doing so from choice. They have other options if they want to take them.
If you chose certain AT's you may find the balancing makes you strong in one scenario but weak in another. While the fire tank can solo in Drecks he is dog food against Rhuluru, even in a team. I haven't tried your controller, but maybe it's the same.
If you can't find a use for yourself in a herding game, don't go on herding missions. No one was forcing you. Now people who did want to go herding are forced not to. Choice has been removed.
Your controllerstillhas no purpose in a mission where the tank can solo it. The nerfs have not altered this.That mission just takes longer now.
All your complaint has done is ruin the fun for that tank, and slow down the leveling of the onlookers. I'd say some sarcastic stuff about this attitude, but in truth, you never had any say it any more than I did. Fire tanks weren't nerfed to give your controller something to do in Drecks. They were nerfed to stop P leveling. A style of gameplay that many people enjoy.
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So why is the answer to all these "problems" a nerf?. Why not a buff?
If everybody is farming the same old mission, clearly that mission is popular, instead of nerfing it how about adding a load of new farming missions so that they can have some variety?
If the Regen is sooooo overpowered how about introducing a regen hunter AI like the space aliens get. OR a freak in Drecks that can ignore tank armour and needs to be controlled.
If one build is particularly weak, buff it.
If PVP is unbalanced but PVE is good, simply change how the powers work inside the Arena only.
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They nerfed everyone because it was the quickest, easiet and cheapest way. The prime importance was to stop people reaching the end game so fast. New end game content would have been better. It was what I was asking for in I3, but the nerf solution was easier. (Altering pre-progammed variables is easier than creating a new zone).
But as a player who isn't after having 'the leetest tank/scrapper on the server', someone who likes doing a few door missions every other day or so, it doesn't bother me.
Same for me, unfortunately after the nerfs I was no longer able to.
My scrapper grew organically, I was forced either to Min/Max him every nerf or retire him. Being the biggest baddest isn't the goal, but to continually advance in power throughout the game is. The more I played, the weaker I got, until I was no longer able to play in lvl 40+ teams. No matter what I did , how much I farmed lvl 53 SO's, I couldn't maintain my power let alone advance it.
Now I could of just rebuilt him, but I preferred to build a new toon in a completely new game. If I am going to try something new, I am going to try something new.
Sorry, I can see I'm rambling, I tend to do that... Anyways, I still enjoy this game, and so do a lot of others it seems. Have subs gone down? Sure, almost 9% according to Serling's numbers. Do I log on a mid 20's toon and not find a team within 5-10 minutes more often than I like? Yes.
I play a lot at off peak hours. At the beginning I could always find a team of any level in any zone at any hour of the day or night. By last summer, the playerbase had visibly shrunk so that late at night I had two choices Portal Park or The Hollows. The playerbase had visible evaporated. Prime time was still busy.
NCsoft doesn't give the figures for COH subs, only server usuage.
The nerfs in Cox aren't done to punish people, they aren't done to 'get those lousy fire tankers'; they are done to balance a game where if one person wants to be a defender or controller, they won't be literally useless if there is a tank or scrapper on the team.
I completely fail to see how this has been improved. Controllers got nerfed too. Defenders have always massively helped in any circumstance. A buffed tank or scrapper has always been more effective than a non buffed tank or scrapper. A buffed tank can pull a vastly bigger number of mobs and kill them quicker completing the level much faster.
I don't see how a controller using a mass hold on 7 herded mobs at the same time is any less useful than a controller using mass hold on 1 herded mob at a time. A controller with 2 pets not 3 is much less useful in all circumstances.
If it's a fire tank in Drecks, he doesn't need help. Not from a scrapper or a controller or a blaster or a defender. He didn't need help before the nerfs, he doesn't need help after the nerfs. What exactly has changed? He can still farm Drecks, it just takes him longer. The team balance is identical to before the nerfs, the XP per minute has been reduced, nothing more.
Originally posted by aaron123 I disagree. I think the changes have made controllers more favorable rather than always picking the tank for the team to wipe everything out.
The tanks absorb mass damage.
The blaster deals heavy damage.
The controller interupts their ability to do damage.
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If you are just using a tank to wipe everything out you are misunderstanding the team dynamic. That's what damage dealers are for.
A fire tank can solo Drecks, but it takes an aeon. A well balanced team can total it in a fraction of the time.
I mean pre-nerfs, you could just get one tank on your team to wipe everything out, so why opt them out for a controller? Such isn't the case presently.
I disagree. Pre-nerf you had controllers with multiple sets of pets out(excellent damage), not to mention their holds were much stronger back then, which even if you didn't think the tank needed additional protection, definitely increased the survivability of the rest of the team. Again, though my experience was only with defenders, I did not feel that burden of not feeling useful. For how many people say they have no problem today finding teams whenever we mention the "lower population", I will say I had no problems with finding teams or feeling needed, PL or not, in the Legendary pre-nerf days.
I used to play with 2 controllers back then(Infinity Coalition SG if memory serves) and many times we didn't play with our resident tank, yet there were few instances where they could not handle the situations and many where they did better than a tanker. With their pets and holds for aggro control and my bubbles to let them stay on their feet longer to get off those holds, they were just as good if not better than many tanks. Also, they played quite a bit as a duo(many times one of them refusing to duo with me so they would stay the same level with each other).
But every AT can also wipe everything out (not sure about defenders). Equally I might say why opt for a team at all?
The tank might be able to wipe everything out, but he does it sooooo slowly. The tank is a shield not a sword. If your tank is just soloing everything, you have joined a rubbish team. (In my opinion). Unless you just want your friend to gain a few XP's for you while you cook the dinner.
For the record, tanks pre nerf could not "just wipe everything out". Pre nerf tanks died too. There are levels such as Drecks where all the damage is lethal where certain tanks had it easy and other levelss with obscure or varied damage types that they couldn't handle. Now they most certainly aren't squishies, but then they don't have much in the way of offensive powers either. Can't hurt much, can't be hurt much.
Against Malta and Carnies for example a tank is all but useless, controllers and blasters are much more useful. Every dog has his day. I think it is a very sour response to force someone to stop doing what they enjoy because you think they are stealing your thunder. If someone doesn't want to play with tanks in their team as a controller, they don't have to. No need to be a kiljoy.
I have also played in countless teams without a tank. As a defensive scrapper, I also enjoyed being a tank substitute. My role in the team became far more important when there was no tank. I am not intrested in deliberately "opting one out" for a controller or anything else. Sure I have more fun when I play without them. In fact I have the most fun in 8 man teams of identical builds. But that's no reason to nerf all the others so that my AT is the only one that is fun to play.
The tank is a lynch pin of the team in COH and many other games. It is as important to find a role that supports one as much as it is to be able to fullfil that role in other ways. As soon as you get into a team you may find yourself having to compromise your personal style to suit the dynamic.
It's a standard formula to play. I have no problem with it.
Originally posted by baff Against Malta and Carnies for example a tank is all but useless, controllers and blasters are much more useful. Every dog has his day. I think it is a very sour response to force someone to stop doing what they enjoy because you think they are stealing your thunder. If someone doesn't want to play with tanks in their team as a controller, they don't have to. No need to be a kiljoy.
Nothing like having 6 pets to kill Malta! I remember hating Sappers with a passion...my MM hardly flinch and figure I should kill them for the sake of the peoples I am grouping with...taking the energy from the MM or any of the 6 pets is useless, as the sapper is not doing damage and will invariably die when just put a little focus on them. A Sapper use to mean it could be a wipe...for my MM it is a joke, gimme 6 sappers, I won't flinch! They will died however! Solo, all at once! That type of difference, of adaptation, of different new twists make it fun. Nothing like any strong AE mob to put my MM in all his states. So yes, my MM would kill a simple flamethrower(a minion) rather than a sapper.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by aaron123 I mean pre-nerfs, you could just get one tank on your team to wipe everything out, so why opt them out for a controller? Such isn't the case presently.
Pre-nerf? A controller bubbling a Regen Scrapper and you are set for the greatest glory! See, prior all the nerfs, the regen scrapper has such a high regen...it only flaw was preventing damage, a bubbler was just perfect...or any class reducing damage! Still the regen NEEDS these buffs!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Well, at least Serling has apperantely given up his attempts to twist numbers out of context to 'prove' the game is doomed. Aside from the fact that NCSoft has cut employees, I still feel that any producer company out there would love to have a game that has 182k subs at 15 bucks a month. That is an awful lot of cash flow. By the way, haven't mentioned it before, but seriously, Cryptic Studios owns the Cox brand, not NCSoft. They pay Emmert, his team, the girl who takes phone calls at the office, all that jazz. Stating that since NCSoft has cut employees is obvious evidence that Cox is faltering is assine at best, and misleading to say the least. When NCSoft can dictate how Cryptic runs it's office, then their cutbacks might make a difference in how they (Cryptic) operates; but they don't so it doesn't.
I'm not going to bother trying to argue against someone who obviously has a grudge against the game itself and twists numbers to serve his purpose: to try to show that since toons were nerfed, the game is DOOOOMMED!
Too bad Serling didn't say that in the first few pages of this thread, would have saved a lot of time for a lot of us.
Twist numbers???
You're the only thing twisting anything here! Crawl back to the CoH fanboy board. You're aspersions and diversions are simply a waste of everyone's time.
Stating that since NCSoft has cut employees is obvious evidence that Cox is faltering is assine at best, and misleading to say the least.
Agiain, troll, NCSoft publishes the game, runs the servers, handles customer supprt, and assists in QA. Cryptic is the design studio. Cryptic does not run the servers or publish the game. NCSoft gets the lion's share of the profits for doing what it does to publish and support the game and its customers. When profits fall for the game, they fall for both Cryptic and NCSoft. When revenues fall enough, layoffs at NCSoft ensue.
You've shown time and time again you have no freaking clue what you're writing about. Crawl back to your fanboy board, troll.
First i will say if i wasant playing eve id definatly be playing this game or city of villains Its a trully fresh idea just like eve.
Now i didnt read all 10 pages of comments here but i did read someone saying eve only has 4-5 thosand people subscribing or something like this now just so you know It has at least 120 thousand subscibers and between 17-24 thousand people on eves single server at once. Also its subscribers are staying and numbers are steadily going up.
Netherless i do hope this game of yours survives its current problems as like i said before its a trully fresh idea
Stating that since NCSoft has cut employees is obvious evidence that Cox is faltering is assine at best, and misleading to say the least.
Agiain, troll, NCSoft publishes the game, runs the servers, handles customer supprt, and assists in QA. Cryptic is the design studio. Cryptic does not run the servers or publish the game. NCSoft gets the lion's share of the profits for doing what it does to publish and support the game and its customers. When profits fall for the game, they fall for both Cryptic and NCSoft. When revenues fall enough, layoffs at NCSoft ensue.
You've shown time and time again you have no freaking clue what you're writing about. Crawl back to your fanboy board, troll.
A swing and a miss... NCsoft is the publisher, but they publish more then one game. Throw in Auto Assult and then see what you have. AA isn't doing very well. Also when is their next great MMO released? Anyone know when TR is out? Face it NCsoft is just trying to save some money until TR comes out, then they will hire everyone back to support it. Plus NCSoft will go on even if COX were to die off so trying to tie those two together is not going to work.
I'm well aware that NCsoft has other offerings. I'm also aware that while AA has lost about $13 million, Lineage II about $11 million, Lineage about $6 million, the "Cities" franchise has lost $11 million dollars in revenues, putting "Cities" right up there with NCsoft's biggest revenue losers!
Guild Wars, on the other hand, made about $23 million (unfortunately, it couldn't cover all of NCsoft's losses).
When games - INCLUDING COH/V - lose income, the whole company suffers.
Is it all Cryptic's fault? No. But Cryptic is obviously part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Originally posted by Serling I'm well aware that NCsoft has other offerings. I'm also aware that while AA has lost about $13 million, Lineage II about $11 million, Lineage about $6 million, the "Cities" franchise has lost $11 million dollars in revenues, putting "Cities" right up there with NCsoft's biggest revenue losers! Guild Wars, on the other hand, made about $23 million (unfortunately, it couldn't cover all of NCsoft's losses). When games - INCLUDING COH/V - lose income, the whole company suffers. Is it all Cryptic's fault? No. But Cryptic is obviously part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Can you source this?
Your previous table showed decreased profit margins, and certainly 18% is not a very good investment/profit return, but it is not the incredible loss that you are reporting above either. In fact, it is a relatively small profit.
I love when people throw around numbers that they don't have any sources for.
Anyways, you gotta realize that NCSoft has 5 games in development:
Exteel Aion Soccer Fury Dungeon Runners Tabula Rasa
Now that's 5 development teams that are not producing any revenue at this point. You gotta spend money to make money.
As far as CoX, well lemme just say that I used to be a big fan, then I got bored of it, but I came back for City of Villains, then I got bored of it, now I've come back after Issue 7 and I'm loving it again.
I wish I could say the same for WoW.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Originally posted by dink Can you source this? Your previous table showed decreased profit margins, and certainly 18% is not a very good investment/profit return, but it is not the incredible loss that you are reporting above either. In fact, it is a relatively small profit.
It's better than any bank or investment company will offer you.
Comments
I kind of luaghed when I read some of the posts here. I play CoX and the server populations are alive and well.
There are heroes and villians everywhere, never a shortage. Someone trying to spin some kind of propoganda here?
Task Forces and groups are always going, I do 1-2 Task Forces almost daily, there is always interest and there are always enough players out there to make up full groups any level no matter what time of the day I log on. I can't say the same when I logged onto EQ before cancelling my accounts over there.
I really would like to see some hardcore facts that you all are claiming all this doom and gloom from cause from my perspective while actually playing the game I am not seeing it.
Are all you negative posters actually still playing the game?
The Short: Nerfs were needed.
The Long: Going back to prior issues where the nerf hammer hit and were needed. Gadget Blasters, those guys were seriously overpowered. 6 slot slow into Caltrops and you had no risk. Throw in the pet machine gun an it was a gooey mess (Warwolves were the favored victims of Gadget Blasters since at that time they had no range attacks)
Invunerable Tanks, PreIssue 2 or 3 (can't remember) they actually found high end tanks could actually have a defence over 100%
Huge nerf stick to their defense. (wish we had a emoticons with a smiley with a nerf bat)
Tank Herding made controllers obselete for a time. Scrappers, untill they got their crit ability were sub par melee fighters.
AOE effects such as Rain of Fire, Caltrops, Ice Patch, Fire Patch. Creatures would stay in those zones, not trying to get away, they would just stay in those zones...anyone with knockback were told not to use their powers to attack.
These are examples of Nerfs that were needed to address game balance, class overpowering and also to make a person's play style/class not become obselete.
Now I know that you can come back with nerfes that made us all go
Wiskey Tango Foxtrot! My response to those ones is that there was possibly game data to support those changes. Cryptic has also rolled back nerfs after players have pointed out data to support their point.
They have also went a step farther then most people expected. Remember that Supression was a result of a lot of people outraged that they could not hit while a travel power was on. The no hit/travel power was introduced due to the "Jousting" people would do; made more apparent when they introduced the Areana. "Jousting" was always there, but not brought to light untill they observed it in the Arena.
For those that don't know, Jousting was like a drive by shooting. You'd run up using your travel power, activate your attack, and continue running past. The animation would kick in showing you hitting the enemy, after you ran past them. This provided a person no risk because by the time the mob of creatures would react, the person would be out of aggro range.
I'll put it this way. You can hate the game, but you can be civil about it. Respect those who currently enjoy the game. Offer thoughtful arguments and avoid going on like a broken record (For those who are younger, that's like a CD only bigger
)
I posted the State of the Game to show the the game is evolving, changing, and is getting better. The article also pointed out the current negative aspects of the game. Overall a balanced and informative review.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Challenge != added grind and timesinks.
Every issue gave a nerf. It became EQ in tights.
Have they yet added any lvl 50 end content? Amost two years!!
The Short: Nerfs were needed.
The Long: Going back to prior issues where the nerf hammer hit and were needed. Gadget Blasters, those guys were seriously overpowered. 6 slot slow into Caltrops and you had no risk. Throw in the pet machine gun an it was a gooey mess (Warwolves were the favored victims of Gadget Blasters since at that time they had no range attacks)
Tank Herding made controllers obselete for a time. Scrappers, untill they got their crit ability were sub par melee fighters.
AOE effects such as Rain of Fire, Caltrops, Ice Patch, Fire Patch. Creatures would stay in those zones, not trying to get away, they would just stay in those zones...anyone with knockback were told not to use their powers to attack.
These are examples of Nerfs that were needed to address game balance, class overpowering and also to make a person's play style/class not become obselete.
The short, the nerfs were needed to slow down levelling by fee paying players.
The only gadget Blaster I ever played with was a domino he fell over so much. I can't agree from experience that any nerf to his build was necessary. A buff maybe. Buffing scrappers? I have no problam with buffs. Buffs don't take anything away.
Tank Herding never made controllers obselete in any game I ever played. In fact Tanks herding monkeys on monkey island made controllers very happy to be in their teams. At no point in any game I played was rounding up scores of bad guys to be mega zapped by blasters the job of a controller, or even aggroing them.Tank herding was removed because of power levelling in Drecks. Plain and simple. People were leveling to 50 in 5 days and it was stinging NCSOFTs revenues.
AOE effects vs knockback. Seems an obvious and intuitive tactitcal situation, what's the problem? Players aren't allowed to interact anymore? What did you recommend, nerf AOE's or nerf Knockback?
Considering you think these nerfs were to stop AT/playstyles becoming obselete, the nerfs you have cited all have that exact end result. Tanks can no longer Herd, AOE's can no longer area zap dummkopfs and gadget blasters can no longer prey off their personal weakest foes the Warwolves, using their gadgets for the obvious and designed purpose.
AOE easy victims = fast experience.
Herding up large numbers = fast experience.
Killing vast numbers of Warwolves = fast experience.
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Beggining to see the patttern yet?
Which is why all the arguments for nerfs about "the good of the game" and "balance" are so damned disingenuous, and why the devs' true motives are all so transparent!
Most of these so called "exploits" (fighting with travel powers on, for instance) were allowed to go on for a year or more before the devs finally decided to implement nerfs. And BTW, looking at the IR, suppression (along with other nerfs) coincided with falling subscription levels!
Faced with falling revenue levels (through falling subs) and unable to get content out quickly enough, the devs turned to the one thing they knew (or believed) would keep people playing longer: slow down the game (suppression), weaken builds (nerfs) and reduce the amount of XP gained for streetsweeping, GMs, and Krakens.
In other words, reduce the rate at which people could gain XP. Make players grind every toon to 50 without the benefit of Kraken farming, herding, or GM hunting, and they believed that would keep subs up.
What they failed to realize is that - especially for the casual player - grinding to 50 wasn't fun and hardly worth the investment in time or money it takes to get there, especially since you realize that the "toys" you get by the time you reach 50 versus the foes you fight there make you feel like a level 1 all over again, especially now with ED.
The people that are still in the game don't mind the grind. The people that have left, or refuse to pay to play, find the grind too much like work. I get paid to work. I don't pay to work.
What the devs have done is remove playstyles and variety, making an already narrowly focused, incredibly shallow grind even moreso. Herding wasn't always fun anymore than doing dozens of consecutive door missions was, anymore than hours of streetsweeping was or powerlevelling was. But when you got tired of one, there was always something else you could do to get you through the boredom or grind. A change of pace kept the game fresh and fun.
The devs have worked harder at taking variety out of the game than adding to it and that's why the game will ultimately fail. Once upon a time, the players could play in a manner that they found entertaining. Now everyone has to play in a manner that Emmert finds entertaining.
Sorry, but an arrogant a-hole like that isn't going to dictate to me what I find fun.
much. I can't agree from experience that any nerf to his build was
necessary. A buff maybe. Buffing scrappers? I have no problam with
buffs. Buffs don't take anything away.
The caltrops power could be slotted with slow enhancements and thrown down so much that it worked like a location based AoE immobilize that the worked on all enemies regardless of their magnitude, and at the same time it would be doing some ok damage. All in all, kinda overpowered when you combined that with the big AoE blasting sets of fire and assault rifle.
The other hugely overpowered thing was the smoke grenade. In its current version it provides a very minor accuracy debuff that lasts for around 20 seconds, makes it harder for enemies to percieve you (though the act of throwing it makes you visible to the enemies anyway ... stupid), and requires an accuracy check. Not a 'have to have' power, kind of skipable actually. In its original version however, it was an auto hit against all the enemies in its fairly large AoE, lasted longer than 20 seconds, and due to a boneheaded coding error gave a 100% accuracy debuff.
Those were utterly understandable nerfs. Truly and understandable. The ones that came after on the other hand ... weren't. They made it harder for the trip mines to go off, sometimes not going off even if mobs are standing right on top of them (undocumented nerf first showed up in I3 I think). The defensive benifits of the cloaking device was both reduced and then made to half supress when you were in combat. ED made it so the trip mine no longer was able to take out a minion in one shot when slotted for its maximum damage capabilities. To-hit buff enhancers were reduced in effectiveness around the same time as ED working as a double whammy on the targeting drone.
Still, with all that being said, my /dev blaster dies very rarely in PvE. <shrug>
A buff maybe. Buffing scrappers? I have no problam with buffs. Buffs don't take anything away.
In that instance what would you do to buff? Increase the damage or health of the mobs to where the tank would need the help of the rest of the team? If you did that then you'd end up with mobs that would utterly lay waste to any of the non-tanks in the game. I mean, what do you buff so that there's any need for the rest of the team that doesn't require a buff to almost everything in the game as opposed to the simple answer ... just nerfing burn so that the tank needs the rest of the team.
Tank Herding never made controllers obselete in any game I ever played.
On the other hand, herding and my energy blaster went very, very well together. You haven't known entertainment untill you've smacked several hundred monkies back a few dozen feet with a nova at once. Ahhh, a thing of beauty. The current 32 I can hit now just isn't quite as fun.
Still fun though.
gadget blasters can no longer prey off their personal weakest foes the Warwolves
Ohh, you know what was really fun? Set up a minefield of like 8 mines while the tank's out herding, then having them go off and take out a huge chunk of the mobs at the end. I used to do it to fire tanks when they were uber, was fun to see them get upset that another member of the team would be defeating any of the mobs.
Killing vast numbers of Warwolves = fast experience.
Now I'll grant you, the game most definately needs an end game. Oh good lord does it need one. Finally the dang devs are putting one in, issue 8 can't come soon enough I tell you. However, it just always seemed weird to me that folks would come onto chat boards and complain that there wasn't any content in the game, no new and fun things to fight and all that ... when they just had gone and skipped 10+ levels of said content. Never having done any of the task forces, and even oftentimes never having completed any of the story arcs.
It just never made much sense to me. <shrug>
Well, at least Serling has apperantely given up his attempts to twist numbers out of context to 'prove' the game is doomed. Aside from the fact that NCSoft has cut employees, I still feel that any producer company out there would love to have a game that has 182k subs at 15 bucks a month. That is an awful lot of cash flow. By the way, haven't mentioned it before, but seriously, Cryptic Studios owns the Cox brand, not NCSoft. They pay Emmert, his team, the girl who takes phone calls at the office, all that jazz. Stating that since NCSoft has cut employees is obvious evidence that Cox is faltering is assine at best, and misleading to say the least. When NCSoft can dictate how Cryptic runs it's office, then their cutbacks might make a difference in how they (Cryptic) operates; but they don't so it doesn't.
I'm not going to bother trying to argue against someone who obviously has a grudge against the game itself and twists numbers to serve his purpose: to try to show that since toons were nerfed, the game is DOOOOMMED!
Too bad Serling didn't say that in the first few pages of this thread, would have saved a lot of time for a lot of us.
Regarding the nerfs, well, a lot of toons got the nerf hammer, and I can't say that's a good thing all around. The taunt nerf for tanks was needed to help stop WW herding. IH was made a clicky to stop regen from being better at taking damage than a tank. Etc, etc....
It's never fun to get 'nerfed', but the devs of the game seem to think that it's the game itself, not the e-peen thrill of having 7 level 50's that's fun. I agree with them on that point. When I was in SWG, my BH could take most any Jedi I got a mark on, and it took a damn lot of time and energy looting, practicing, grinding, stalking, whatever to get to that point. Not saying I was some kind of uber BH or anything, there where plenty others who were much better than me. What I mean is I spent a lot of time getting myself to the point where I could take a bounty and be confident in it. How many stupid solo groups did I join to grind credits to get the best equpiment, how many times did I camp Aklay to help fellow guildies get their best loot drops? A lot, and when that was destroyed in the NGE I was personally offended (well, a bit, it is a game after all but still).
The nerfs in Cox aren't done to punish people, they aren't done to 'get those lousy fire tankers'; they are done to balance a game where if one person wants to be a defender or controller, they won't be literally useless if there is a tank or scrapper on the team. Remember how boring and stupid WW farmng was/is? I do, after maybe 3 farming runs I was done with farming, it's not for me. I enjoy the game, not the feeling of having multile level 50's.
My lfg comment is still 'won't farm, anything else please', and it works for me. My SG is a pvp based one and I get a lot of flak for not having more than one 50. I have several toons in their 40's, 2 at 48, but I can't farm, I just can't. It bores me silly running dreck 20 times in a row.
I wish there was level 50 content, I really do and can't argue that point one bit. I can't argue that we get nerfed in issue after issue. But as a player who isn't after having 'the leetest tank/scrapper on the server', someone who likes doing a few door missions every other day or so, it doesn't bother me. It's not EQ2, it's not SWG, or a game of that genre; it's a game about the journey to 50. After the nerfs occur, I can see more parity between the classes and powersets usually; actually, when I don't I go gripe on the forums and lo and behold, there is a dev response every now and then.
I posted like 40 times on how dumb people using TP foe to stick their targets in the towers in Siren's was. Drove me crazy, it was griefing to the letter. We got a response from Cuppa within a few days saying what we wanted to hear, that yes it was an exploit and was not cool to do to others. A few days later, poof!, we had doors in the towers so you wouldn't get stuck in there until you were TP'd out.
Sorry, I can see I'm rambling, I tend to do that... Anyways, I still enjoy this game, and so do a lot of others it seems. Have subs gone down? Sure, almost 9% according to Serling's numbers. Do I log on a mid 20's toon and not find a team within 5-10 minutes more often than I like? Yes.
But when I do find that pick up group, I can rest assured that they aren't a bunch of powerleveling min/maxers who will shoot me tells about how craptstic my build is, or judging my every move. They are people like me: someone playing a game we find enjoyable, nerfed or not.
Well, that's all I have to say really. I can't be bothered to listen to made up Econ 101 lessons. If you want to say the nerfage killed the game for you, great! Have the balls to come out and say it. Don't play Enron and use number games to try to prove a point, come out and say what you want to say. Like Bush in Iraq (oops! sorry to bring this up but...), you can't make stuff up to use as your argument, you just can't. You can make up stuff all day long, and get a lot of people to believe you since half the population is below average in intellignce. It doesn't make it true.
If the nerfage ruined the game for you, I am sorry. I've lost a few great friends to that, and we were going to meet in DnL, but that sure fell through lol! I feel you on the nerf thing, but as a non-powerleveler, I get over them fast since they really don't stop me from enjoying the game. I guess this is where we have to agree to disagree Serling.
@ hehe I thought those devices were a pool power. Shows what I know.
I used Warwolves as an example because the guy I was replying to did. I think any non ranged only mob will fit his caltrops tactic.
.
I don't have any experience of I1 and I2 the game launched here at I3. (And got progressively worse for my money). I sat by for 3 nerfs and then fled for pastures new. While Nerfs maybe understandable, Nerfs every update are not. It is clear from the frequency that the developers are very limited both in the problems they are willing to address and the ways they wish to do so.
I've also been in missions in teams where the fire tank would do the level and the rest would sit back and chat.
Pretty boring stuff, but they could have joined in. It would have gone quicker if they did. When I first started power leveling Drecks, (no one had done it before on our server), our fire tank fought as part of the team. A few months later I joined a P level team and they all just sat there and chatted while the fire tank killed everything. I fought with the tank. That's not the kind of team I am looking for.
It's up to you how you play, all the game does is give you options.
People farming the same mission over and over again fits into this catagory. No one is forcing them to, they are doing so from choice. They have other options if they want to take them.
If you chose certain AT's you may find the balancing makes you strong in one scenario but weak in another. While the fire tank can solo in Drecks he is dog food against Rhuluru, even in a team. I haven't tried your controller, but maybe it's the same.
If you can't find a use for yourself in a herding game, don't go on herding missions. No one was forcing you. Now people who did want to go herding are forced not to. Choice has been removed.
Your controller still has no purpose in a mission where the tank can solo it. The nerfs have not altered this. That mission just takes longer now.
All your complaint has done is ruin the fun for that tank, and slow down the leveling of the onlookers. I'd say some sarcastic stuff about this attitude, but in truth, you never had any say it any more than I did. Fire tanks weren't nerfed to give your controller something to do in Drecks. They were nerfed to stop P leveling. A style of gameplay that many people enjoy.
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So why is the answer to all these "problems" a nerf?. Why not a buff?
If everybody is farming the same old mission, clearly that mission is popular, instead of nerfing it how about adding a load of new farming missions so that they can have some variety?
If the Regen is sooooo overpowered how about introducing a regen hunter AI like the space aliens get. OR a freak in Drecks that can ignore tank armour and needs to be controlled.
If one build is particularly weak, buff it.
If PVP is unbalanced but PVE is good, simply change how the powers work inside the Arena only.
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They nerfed everyone because it was the quickest, easiet and cheapest way. The prime importance was to stop people reaching the end game so fast. New end game content would have been better. It was what I was asking for in I3, but the nerf solution was easier. (Altering pre-progammed variables is easier than creating a new zone).
@jandrsn
But as a player who isn't after having 'the leetest tank/scrapper on the server', someone who likes doing a few door missions every other day or so, it doesn't bother me.
Same for me, unfortunately after the nerfs I was no longer able to.
My scrapper grew organically, I was forced either to Min/Max him every nerf or retire him. Being the biggest baddest isn't the goal, but to continually advance in power throughout the game is. The more I played, the weaker I got, until I was no longer able to play in lvl 40+ teams. No matter what I did , how much I farmed lvl 53 SO's, I couldn't maintain my power let alone advance it.
Now I could of just rebuilt him, but I preferred to build a new toon in a completely new game. If I am going to try something new, I am going to try something new.
Sorry, I can see I'm rambling, I tend to do that... Anyways, I still enjoy this game, and so do a lot of others it seems. Have subs gone down? Sure, almost 9% according to Serling's numbers. Do I log on a mid 20's toon and not find a team within 5-10 minutes more often than I like? Yes.
I play a lot at off peak hours. At the beginning I could always find a team of any level in any zone at any hour of the day or night. By last summer, the playerbase had visibly shrunk so that late at night I had two choices Portal Park or The Hollows. The playerbase had visible evaporated. Prime time was still busy.
NCsoft doesn't give the figures for COH subs, only server usuage.
The nerfs in Cox aren't done to punish people, they aren't done to 'get those lousy fire tankers'; they are done to balance a game where if one person wants to be a defender or controller, they won't be literally useless if there is a tank or scrapper on the team.
I completely fail to see how this has been improved. Controllers got nerfed too. Defenders have always massively helped in any circumstance. A buffed tank or scrapper has always been more effective than a non buffed tank or scrapper. A buffed tank can pull a vastly bigger number of mobs and kill them quicker completing the level much faster.
I don't see how a controller using a mass hold on 7 herded mobs at the same time is any less useful than a controller using mass hold on 1 herded mob at a time. A controller with 2 pets not 3 is much less useful in all circumstances.
If it's a fire tank in Drecks, he doesn't need help. Not from a scrapper or a controller or a blaster or a defender. He didn't need help before the nerfs, he doesn't need help after the nerfs. What exactly has changed? He can still farm Drecks, it just takes him longer. The team balance is identical to before the nerfs, the XP per minute has been reduced, nothing more.
The tanks absorb mass damage.
The blaster deals heavy damage.
The controller interupts their ability to do damage.
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If you are just using a tank to wipe everything out you are misunderstanding the team dynamic. That's what damage dealers are for.
A fire tank can solo Drecks, but it takes an aeon. A well balanced team can total it in a fraction of the time.
I disagree. Pre-nerf you had controllers with multiple sets of pets out(excellent damage), not to mention their holds were much stronger back then, which even if you didn't think the tank needed additional protection, definitely increased the survivability of the rest of the team. Again, though my experience was only with defenders, I did not feel that burden of not feeling useful. For how many people say they have no problem today finding teams whenever we mention the "lower population", I will say I had no problems with finding teams or feeling needed, PL or not, in the Legendary pre-nerf days.
I used to play with 2 controllers back then(Infinity Coalition SG if memory serves) and many times we didn't play with our resident tank, yet there were few instances where they could not handle the situations and many where they did better than a tanker. With their pets and holds for aggro control and my bubbles to let them stay on their feet longer to get off those holds, they were just as good if not better than many tanks. Also, they played quite a bit as a duo(many times one of them refusing to duo with me so they would stay the same level with each other).
But every AT can also wipe everything out (not sure about defenders). Equally I might say why opt for a team at all?
The tank might be able to wipe everything out, but he does it sooooo slowly. The tank is a shield not a sword. If your tank is just soloing everything, you have joined a rubbish team. (In my opinion). Unless you just want your friend to gain a few XP's for you while you cook the dinner.
For the record, tanks pre nerf could not "just wipe everything out". Pre nerf tanks died too. There are levels such as Drecks where all the damage is lethal where certain tanks had it easy and other levelss with obscure or varied damage types that they couldn't handle. Now they most certainly aren't squishies, but then they don't have much in the way of offensive powers either. Can't hurt much, can't be hurt much.
Against Malta and Carnies for example a tank is all but useless, controllers and blasters are much more useful. Every dog has his day. I think it is a very sour response to force someone to stop doing what they enjoy because you think they are stealing your thunder. If someone doesn't want to play with tanks in their team as a controller, they don't have to. No need to be a kiljoy.
I have also played in countless teams without a tank. As a defensive scrapper, I also enjoyed being a tank substitute. My role in the team became far more important when there was no tank. I am not intrested in deliberately "opting one out" for a controller or anything else. Sure I have more fun when I play without them. In fact I have the most fun in 8 man teams of identical builds. But that's no reason to nerf all the others so that my AT is the only one that is fun to play.
The tank is a lynch pin of the team in COH and many other games. It is as important to find a role that supports one as much as it is to be able to fullfil that role in other ways. As soon as you get into a team you may find yourself having to compromise your personal style to suit the dynamic.
It's a standard formula to play. I have no problem with it.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Twist numbers???
You're the only thing twisting anything here! Crawl back to the CoH fanboy board. You're aspersions and diversions are simply a waste of everyone's time.
Agiain, troll, NCSoft publishes the game, runs the servers, handles customer supprt, and assists in QA. Cryptic is the design studio. Cryptic does not run the servers or publish the game. NCSoft gets the lion's share of the profits for doing what it does to publish and support the game and its customers. When profits fall for the game, they fall for both Cryptic and NCSoft. When revenues fall enough, layoffs at NCSoft ensue.
You've shown time and time again you have no freaking clue what you're writing about. Crawl back to your fanboy board, troll.
First i will say if i wasant playing eve id definatly be playing this game or city of villains Its a trully fresh idea just like eve.
Now i didnt read all 10 pages of comments here but i did read someone saying eve only has 4-5 thosand people subscribing or something like this now just so you know It has at least 120 thousand subscibers and between 17-24 thousand people on eves single server at once. Also its subscribers are staying and numbers are steadily going up.
Netherless i do hope this game of yours survives its current problems as like i said before its a trully fresh idea
Jdun:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/search.php?Cat=
Search "Friggin_Taser" under username.
Agiain, troll, NCSoft publishes the game, runs the servers, handles customer supprt, and assists in QA. Cryptic is the design studio. Cryptic does not run the servers or publish the game. NCSoft gets the lion's share of the profits for doing what it does to publish and support the game and its customers. When profits fall for the game, they fall for both Cryptic and NCSoft. When revenues fall enough, layoffs at NCSoft ensue.
You've shown time and time again you have no freaking clue what you're writing about. Crawl back to your fanboy board, troll.
A swing and a miss...
NCsoft is the publisher, but they publish more then one game. Throw in Auto Assult and then see what you have. AA isn't doing very well. Also when is their next great MMO released? Anyone know when TR is out? Face it NCsoft is just trying to save some money until TR comes out, then they will hire everyone back to support it. Plus NCSoft will go on even if COX were to die off so trying to tie those two together is not going to work.
I'm well aware that NCsoft has other offerings. I'm also aware that while AA has lost about $13 million, Lineage II about $11 million, Lineage about $6 million, the "Cities" franchise has lost $11 million dollars in revenues, putting "Cities" right up there with NCsoft's biggest revenue losers!
Guild Wars, on the other hand, made about $23 million (unfortunately, it couldn't cover all of NCsoft's losses).
When games - INCLUDING COH/V - lose income, the whole company suffers.
Is it all Cryptic's fault? No. But Cryptic is obviously part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Can you source this?
Your previous table showed decreased profit margins, and certainly 18% is not a very good investment/profit return, but it is not the incredible loss that you are reporting above either. In fact, it is a relatively small profit.
I love when people throw around numbers that they don't have any sources for.
Anyways, you gotta realize that NCSoft has 5 games in development:
Exteel
Aion
Soccer Fury
Dungeon Runners
Tabula Rasa
Now that's 5 development teams that are not producing any revenue at this point. You gotta spend money to make money.
As far as CoX, well lemme just say that I used to be a big fan, then I got bored of it, but I came back for City of Villains, then I got bored of it, now I've come back after Issue 7 and I'm loving it again.
I wish I could say the same for WoW.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
It's better than any bank or investment company will offer you.
18% is good.