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Brenlo on Who is to blame.
Tiller
Member LegendaryPosts: 11,488
First a request, to those of you using this thread as your personal battleground, please take it to PM's.
So, I wanted to clarify that we did, here at SOE conceive and develop the NGE. We did so with the best of intentions, to try and make a better game. No blame or buck is being passed. 
We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound. Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them, and they went for it. A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different.
Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize.
Brenlo Bixiebopper
Director, Global Community Relations - SOE
---------------------------------------------
It's a rough life, but someone has to live it.
http://soe.lithium.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swggpdiscussion&message.id=1039243#M1039243
Well first off they have made customers mad enough that the brand loyalty they did have is now gone. It may never return I'm afraid and the only thing that may bring a few players back is a classic server.
Comments
So who's to blame? The requester? The designer? Or the Approver?
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
So who's to blame? The requester? The designer? Or the Approver?
Is what LEC requested and approved the same thing that went live on Nov. 15?
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Screenshot this, save it for posterity.
It's likely to be soon gone.
But he speaketh the truth nonetheless, even in a formal business speak. This is as sincere as it gets.
So who's to blame? The requester? The designer? Or the Approver?
Is what LEC requested and approved the same thing that went live on Nov. 15?
The whining players requested, SoE designed it, LA approved it.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
"We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea."
What a pretentious ass clown. The debate ends once a user trys the NGE and experiences this hell shit. There is no debate this is a god awful game. What an @sshole.
So who's to blame? The requester? The designer? Or the Approver?
Is what LEC requested and approved the same thing that went live on Nov. 15?
The whining players requested, SoE designed it, LA approved it.
Requesting for bug fixes is not the same as requesting for a change in system. IT WAS SOE who said origionally, the current combat system is bad, we need to Revamp Combat. All anyone was asking for back in 2003 was profession definition and bug fixes. Then SOE changed the focus and talked about a "Combat Revamp."
Quit blaming the people who have absolutely no control over the game, please.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
On a side note -As for Thunderheart’s comment on showing the MMO industry that it’s not a good idea to have alpha classes in games, my take on this is that it was just fine till they removed perma death. There was nothing wrong with it and there was nothing wrong with playing in constant danger for your actions within the game. It was what truly balanced the game. Who would have thought that by removing one element of game play to make something easier and more rewarding (user friendly) would cause so many problems. There was nothing wrong with Jedi being alpha at that point or any point as long as the risks for being so where balanced with the reward and where far and above what NORMAL players would ever face. As soon as perma death went away and the village arrived it opened up a whole new door to a profession that until then had remained mostly underground. Those who didn’t use caution paid the price. The risks for being so powerful where pretty hardcore, and I agree but it was done so for people who had the nads to take that risk, not just any joe who wanted to look cool. This also made it more true to the timeline and cannon since Jedi went underground at the time (which you will see more of in GL’s new TV series I assume)
It’s just like how they removed Tefs. It killed that sense of dancer in the galaxy. When I first set foot in this game I thought “man this game is hardcore” I could feel the oppression of the empire. I was afraid of getting scanned. I was afraid of logging off in the wild, I was cautious when I did faction missions and I booked it if I was unbuffed and landing patrol of Stormtroopers touched down. But like the fear for being Jedi it was also removed. I really think that these elements are what made the game, not quests. When they yanked these elements out one by one the game dwindled down to nothing. By adding quests as content the people who were hardcore players were left twiddling their thumbs. It was never all about PvP and time sinks, it was about living with a sense of fear of the unknown and consequences for our actions. That’s like real life content. All that is gone and the game is more like an amusement park. “Meet and work for Jabba the Hutt ™ ” At the end of the day you can just walk around with little risk from his opposing faction. Remember that? If you had bad faction with Nym his guards would kill you as you loaded in? What happened to that? Are those guys even there anymore? If they are they don’t bother you. Back in my lower level days I used to have to go all the around the city so those guys didn’t blow my swoop and incap me. Now the game plays like a script.
Regardless of the fact people have issues with what was said in Brenlo's post, he still has to be commended for one thing. The overall tone of the post is apologetic, and it IS an admission of failure.
"Where did we go wrong?"
That, dear NGE Fanbois, is the same as saying "The NGE was done wrong". He discusses blame...blame is not necessary if all is good. He speaks of having the best intentions...one never uses that stock phrase unless he is trying to excuse himself.
I will smile during dinner tonight, knowing that even SOE is beginning to see that they were wrong, and I (and countless thousands of others) was right all along.
This has been a very busy couple of weeks in SWG-Land. The poodoo is hitting the fan. The Maroj melons are ripening. Seeya after dinner.
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
I was all at once dumbfounded and elated when I read Brenlos post. Even though I felt it was an apology under diress, it was an apology. I just can't help but feel some big changes coming yet again if there speech is headed in the tone of past tense with the NGE.
Really makes one wonder...
And I say again: LEC instructed them to change the game. SOE came up with the design. LEC approved the design.
tead
So who's to blame? The requester? The designer? Or the Approver?
Wrong! They failed to engange and listen to the veteran player base. End of story. Timing and communication would not have been an issue if they had listen to use and fixed bugs instead of modifying the design (ie nerf). End of Story, End of SWG.
This was not trying something different. SWG was something different from your other online games. Instead, you ran from something different and tried to make it into something seen elsewhere. I am truly sad that you feel happy for working with a company that would knowingly dump their loyal players in the hopes of enticing in new players.
Until SOE as a company realizes this, I have little hope for a return of the world sim that I loved.
What I find funny is this... and I may sound like a conspiracy theorist and I'm just spitballing here, but...
1. Brenlo is saying this. How many times has HE been thrust foreward to say ANYTHING. He's an outsider to SWG. WHY is HE saying it? Why come out now and have a complete outsider confess to everyone it was "our bad"? HE had nothing to do with it, he's EQ's bitch.
2. He firmly states it was $OE not LA who came up with the NGE. WHY would he take the hit? Why would he totally give the mea culpas from $OE's camp.. blaming Freeman for the design, blaming $OE for the rollout.. the bad communication?
3. He basically makes the excuse as, and I paraphraze, "We tried to reach too high". Not that the coding blew, or they tried to build it on another system, or our coders are chimps... that they dreamed too big. That the goal was admirable, yet unattainable... and that he's PROUD to work for a company that has the balls to take such chances.
Babe.. there's gonna be a split. It's as inevatable as when Brad Pitt does a flick with some hottie.. it's over. The SWG design team is being rolled into DC (if they really haven't already).. LA will take over the servers (complete with rollback/classic servers) and we all hobble towards SWG2.
If there wasn't something BIG happening soon.. they wouldn't be saying this. Brenlo... Smed... $OE is slyly trying to get their excuses to the net beforehand so they look less like dicks. Save a bit of face.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Sorry to disagree with you, but what SWG design team are you talking about? I have seen no design effort
since the NGE hit. Helios doesn't seem like a designer to me. Just a maintence guy with a faux title.
Sorry to disagree with you, but what SWG design team are you talking about? I have seen no design effort
since the NGE hit. Helios doesn't seem like a designer to me. Just a maintence guy with a faux title.
Design team may not be the apprpriate TITLE.. but it is the chimps banging at the keyboards bringing us such sucktastic "improvements" as all the copied stuff from WoW and the bad looking new character "improvements".
You know.. THOSE chimps.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
QFE - Good points one and all.
Oh, and tillamook, red font just isn't your style
Unless you thank me for my time ;P
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
Sorry to disagree with you, but what SWG design team are you talking about? I have seen no design effort
since the NGE hit. Helios doesn't seem like a designer to me. Just a maintence guy with a faux title.
I guess last of the original designers was Raph, and he left SWG about 6 months after launch.
I don't think there's been anyone else at the wheel since then.
Sorry to disagree with you, but what SWG design team are you talking about? I have seen no design effort
since the NGE hit. Helios doesn't seem like a designer to me. Just a maintence guy with a faux title.
Design team may not be the apprpriate TITLE.. but it is the chimps banging at the keyboards bringing us such sucktastic "improvements" as all the copied stuff from WoW and the bad looking new character "improvements".
You know.. THOSE chimps.
My take on Brenlo's post:
"We did so with the best of intentions, to try and make a better game."
One could say he is trying to plea for forgiveness by attempting to say "we did it for you." Another might say he was trying to shrug any blame and chaulk it up to "you win a few ... you lose a few" attitude. But either way to take it, the fact he said it says they know the F'ed up.
"Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound."
Definitely a poor attempt to cover his ass. After all, he is a company man. His "We are sorry" statement s can only go so far.
"Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them, and they went for it. A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different."
Another attempt to cover his ass and be a team player ... and a good one. The problem with this statemnet is that you don't try something different is an EXISTING game that has an EXISTING playerbase. If they wanted to try something "different" they should have started a new game. I am please to see he threw Jeff Freemans name out there. I hope Jeff is washing dishes at some McDonalds somewhere.
"Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize."
Now comes the biggie. He is saying that the NGE was NOT a mistake. The mistake was in timing and communication. This speaks volumes that $OE does not think the NGE was wrong in concept or in implementation. This also tells me that with this mindset that $OE would do it again. He only says that $OE should have given the playerbase more of a warning .... communicated that it was coming better. But in essence it would have happened anyways.
I will have to agree with everyones opinion that SWG life expectancy does not look very good right now. I don't know if I am happy or sad. But I do know 2 things.....
Good catch and good post to the OP.
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
hey, where is Obriak? where is the sunshine and happy happy joy joy posts?
I thought from his take the NGE was makign a HUGE come back.
I can see how you interpret this in that fashion, but asking "Where did we go wrong?" is implying IT was wrong. Not just the communication, IT...the NGE.
I think he was trying to SAY exactly what you say above. But by asking where IT went wrong IMPLIES the whole thing is a mistake in his mind. So technically I agree with you, but IMO that question indicates a lot of suppressed feelings. I could be right or wrong or either.
At any rate, I'm still smiling ear-to-ear.
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0