This was not trying something different. SWG was something different from your other online games. Instead, you ran from something different and tried to make it into something seen elsewhere. I am truly sad that you feel happy for working with a company that would knowingly dump their loyal players in the hopes of enticing in new players.
Until SOE as a company realizes this, I have little hope for a return of the world sim that I loved.
And I say again: LEC instructed them to change the game. SOE came up with the design. LEC approved the design.
So who's to blame? The requester? The designer? Or the Approver?
I can only speak for myself but I'm not holding any special place in my heart for an LEC MMORPG that could come out sometime. SOE I'm done with, period. LEC... maybe just one notch above that.
Originally posted by Shayde I'm just glad this puts to bed the whole "LA made the nge" argument.
What I find funny is this... and I may sound like a conspiracy theorist and I'm just spitballing here, but...
1. Brenlo is saying this. How many times has HE been thrust foreward to say ANYTHING. He's an outsider to SWG. WHY is HE saying it? Why come out now and have a complete outsider confess to everyone it was "our bad"? HE had nothing to do with it, he's EQ's bitch.
2. He firmly states it was $OE not LA who came up with the NGE. WHY would he take the hit? Why would he totally give the mea culpas from $OE's camp.. blaming Freeman for the design, blaming $OE for the rollout.. the bad communication?
3. He basically makes the excuse as, and I paraphraze, "We tried to reach too high". Not that the coding blew, or they tried to build it on another system, or our coders are chimps... that they dreamed too big. That the goal was admirable, yet unattainable... and that he's PROUD to work for a company that has the balls to take such chances.
Babe.. there's gonna be a split. It's as inevatable as when Brad Pitt does a flick with some hottie.. it's over. The SWG design team is being rolled into DC (if they really haven't already).. LA will take over the servers (complete with rollback/classic servers) and we all hobble towards SWG2.
If there wasn't something BIG happening soon.. they wouldn't be saying this. Brenlo... Smed... $OE is slyly trying to get their excuses to the net beforehand so they look less like dicks. Save a bit of face.
Hey Shayde- Taking your conspiracy theory a little further - i wonder if this is why LA met with the Duck team. Kinda telling them - keep this thing on the down low for a couple of weeks so that SOE staff can cover their a$$e$. Maybe
Originally posted by Leel Originally posted by Shayde I'm just glad this puts to bed the whole "LA made the nge" argument.
What I find funny is this... and I may sound like a conspiracy theorist and I'm just spitballing here, but...
1. Brenlo is saying this. How many times has HE been thrust foreward to say ANYTHING. He's an outsider to SWG. WHY is HE saying it? Why come out now and have a complete outsider confess to everyone it was "our bad"? HE had nothing to do with it, he's EQ's bitch.
2. He firmly states it was $OE not LA who came up with the NGE. WHY would he take the hit? Why would he totally give the mea culpas from $OE's camp.. blaming Freeman for the design, blaming $OE for the rollout.. the bad communication?
3. He basically makes the excuse as, and I paraphraze, "We tried to reach too high". Not that the coding blew, or they tried to build it on another system, or our coders are chimps... that they dreamed too big. That the goal was admirable, yet unattainable... and that he's PROUD to work for a company that has the balls to take such chances.
Babe.. there's gonna be a split. It's as inevatable as when Brad Pitt does a flick with some hottie.. it's over. The SWG design team is being rolled into DC (if they really haven't already).. LA will take over the servers (complete with rollback/classic servers) and we all hobble towards SWG2.
If there wasn't something BIG happening soon.. they wouldn't be saying this. Brenlo... Smed... $OE is slyly trying to get their excuses to the net beforehand so they look less like dicks. Save a bit of face.
Hey Shayde- Taking your conspiracy theory a little further - i wonder if this is why LA met with the Duck team. Kinda telling them - keep this thing on the down low for a couple of weeks so that SOE staff can cover their a$$e$. Maybe
/QFE.. I was gonna bring that up also... Ever notice how the LEC producers were taking a more active approcah to the forums.. Think they are gearing up to switch it over... We never had them in there before, and to have them now jump in on threads and answer stuff is jsut too coincidental now...
Also... Leave Obraik alone.. He doesnt owe anyone an explanation, or interpretation of what Brenlo said (and I do wonder why they had Brenlo do it - Unless he was low man on totem pole for this one). If he wants to comment he will...
Also.. I wonder if the switch from Lithium to the other company is part of whats going on...
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Originally posted by jrscott Regardless of the fact people have issues with what was said in Brenlo's post, he still has to be commended for one thing. The overall tone of the post is apologetic, and it IS an admission of failure. "Where did we go wrong?" That, dear NGE Fanbois, is the same as saying "The NGE was done wrong". He discusses blame...blame is not necessary if all is good. He speaks of having the best intentions...one never uses that stock phrase unless he is trying to excuse himself. I will smile during dinner tonight, knowing that even SOE is beginning to see that they were wrong, and I (and countless thousands of others) was right all along. This has been a very busy couple of weeks in SWG-Land. The poodoo is hitting the fan. The Maroj melons are ripening. Seeya after dinner.
It is good to see the start of the blame game and the "IM SORRY" phase..... as predicted, ALSO note-- He has nads for saying these things, he really does.
NOW THEN LETS SEE THE NGE FANBOIS SPIN THIS ONE... It is not possible, maybe just maybe they will see the writing on the wall.
If anything good comes from this it took 8 months for this to happen, almost 9 and past the 6 month mark.
The NGE failed, it took more then it gave and THEY KNOW IT, any monkey would know it..
NOW Smedley has called out LEC and the blame wars have begun... get the popcorn because NOW it is going to get intresting.
I just hope someone out of these two companies learns somthing from doing this so it does not happen again.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
It sounds like LEC pressured SOE to come out and admit to concieving the NGE.
Take this and add in the post from Smed, and then sprinkle in some recent emumours and you can tell there is a split going on...You never dis your partner in public.
Which would of placed it sometime mid september... We are in august, and no sign of the NGE improving to the point where they will get hoards of players back to SWG...
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Originally posted by Xcathdra Which would of placed it sometime mid september... We are in august, and no sign of the NGE improving to the point where they will get hoards of players back to SWG...
Originally posted by SODAofBRIA Originally posted by Xcathdra Which would of placed it sometime mid september... We are in august, and no sign of the NGE improving to the point where they will get hoards of players back to SWG...
Just wait for the Trader/Smuggler revamp dude!!!
Please?
LMAO.... Nope... They already screwed me over a few times...
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Originally posted by SODAofBRIA Originally posted by Xcathdra Which would of placed it sometime mid september... We are in august, and no sign of the NGE improving to the point where they will get hoards of players back to SWG...
Originally posted by SODAofBRIA Originally posted by Xcathdra Which would of placed it sometime mid september... We are in august, and no sign of the NGE improving to the point where they will get hoards of players back to SWG...
Just wait for the Trader/Smuggler revamp dude!!!
Please?!
OMG OMG OMG OMG, you mean you mean you mean, I can smuggle?
Originally posted by Rabia Originally posted by SODAofBRIA
Originally posted by Xcathdra
Which would of placed it sometime mid september... We are in august, and no sign of the NGE improving to the point where they will get hoards of players back to SWG...
Just wait for the Trader/Smuggler revamp dude!!!
Please?!
OMG OMG OMG OMG, you mean you mean you mean, I can smuggle?
Im really suprised they havnt made smuggler better, after all, SoE sure as hell smuggled the NGE past us and onto live.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize. Well first off they have made customers mad enough that the brand loyalty they did have is now gone. It may never return I'm afraid and the only thing that may bring a few players back is a classic server.
True. Even with a few classic servers (still praying for them) we won't have as many players as we once had. They have pissed too many.
I find it funny they say they went wrong in those three thing... In my opinion that's the least of the problems. They knew perfectly what the players wanted, but they had WoW's success and to beat them was their main and only concern.
Cash, that's the only thing a firm like LA or SOE cares about.
Apart from that, there are many ways to get more people in a game, and I think someone made a list of good and bad ideas, and they took the wrong list... Because damn, they couldn't have done it worse!
They could have created new CU/NGE servers and improved them until people went from classic to new servers, they could have listened, they could have given content,they could have fixed bugs, instead they started removing things from the game and from time to time adding stupid useless features nobody prefered over the old ones.
I doubt they can fix it, and if they are not going to create some classic servers to please us and earn some money (even if they are static and never are patched), I'd like them to close the game and let others do something worth the IP (which I know don't see with the same eyes I did once, that all changed with the CU and the crappy episodes 1-3)
About who is to blame... No idea. They have never said wether it was SoE's or LA's idea, and I doubt it's something one person alone can decide, so we can't just say "it's XXX's fault"...
Originally posted by SODAofBRIA Originally posted by Xcathdra Which would of placed it sometime mid september... We are in august, and no sign of the NGE improving to the point where they will get hoards of players back to SWG...
Just wait for the Trader/Smuggler revamp dude!!!
Please?!
Stick's too short, carrot's too big. Must be for the officer revamp. Not NEARLY right for traders and smugglers.
Originally posted by SODAofBRIA Originally posted by Xcathdra Which would of placed it sometime mid september... We are in august, and no sign of the NGE improving to the point where they will get hoards of players back to SWG...
Just wait for the Trader/Smuggler revamp dude!!!
Please?!
The problem is they placed a turd instead of a carrot... Same shape, different color, somebody needs to visit the oculist. (or however it's said in english!)
So, after all the mess and confusion that's reigned since last November we get, in the same week, Brenlo and Smed popping up and doing the mea culpa?
Except one of them says "OK, fair cop guv, you got us bang to rights, NGE wasn't as well done as it might have been" and the other is still going "It wasn't us! Bad boys came and did it!".
I'm glad that's all cleared up then.
Message, mixed, much?
********************* So, you all sat in camps and that was fun? *********************
Sorry to those that wanted me to post here earlier :P During the day I can't really post in the threads that have alot of reading involved since I usually don't have enough time...
Anyway, to me it doesn't really seem like Brenlo is saying anything overly new. Back in March they were saying the same stuff (admitting they failied on the delivery and the testing, apologized, etc), this is just the same thing but in one post instead :P Why Brenlo? He's the chief customer relations guy (TH's boss) for all SOE games.
To those thinking he's saying the NGE is a failure, he's not. He's apologizing for how it was delivered in a rushed fasion with little communication about it. He quite clearly states that he believes/believed in the NGE concept. Why the past tense? Well, it's not really the original NGE concept anymore. There's profession diversity now, target lock, auto fire, weapon based damage, etc all things that weren't really part of the NGE concept.
Wow I wasn't expecting anything like this, don't think I've ever seen a SOE apology, and an admission that they were the instigators of the NGE.
You could read the comment as Obraik just did, but with the mass exodus since November and the general crapness of the game it was just a matter of time before they put their hands up and admitted what was so completely obvious to 99% of people out there.
With Smed's comments about problems developing someone else's games, it looks like the SOE/LA split is starting.
We should expect George Lucas to start wearing FCUK SOE t-shirts soon.
Sony used to be a purveyor of fine quality goods, I can't believe how much they've bombed over the last 20 years, must be the lowest-bidder mentality they've adopted I suppose.
Originally posted by jrscott Originally posted by Sago Now comes the biggie. He is saying that the NGE was NOT a mistake. The mistake was in timing and communication. This speaks volumes that $OE does not think the NGE was wrong in concept or in implementation. This also tells me that with this mindset that $OE would do it again. He only says that $OE should have given the playerbase more of a warning .... communicated that it was coming better. But in essence it would have happened anyways.
I can see how you interpret this in that fashion, but asking "Where did we go wrong?" is implying IT was wrong. Not just the communication, IT...the NGE.
I think he was trying to SAY exactly what you say above. But by asking where IT went wrong IMPLIES the whole thing is a mistake in his mind. So technically I agree with you, but IMO that question indicates a lot of suppressed feelings. I could be right or wrong or either.
At any rate, I'm still smiling ear-to-ear.
I see what you are trying to say but this was his exact statement:
"Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize."
First, Brenlo asked a question: "Where did we go wrong?"
Then Brenlo answers his own question, thus making a statement: "Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most,"
Nowhere does he say "IT". Tho I can see if someone tries to read into what he is saying to try to get a good sense of his meaning, one may conclude he was meaning the NGE was wrong.
Personally I don't try to read into or try to decipher what someone is truly trying to say. I, in most cases, will take a persons words and take it for what he said ... or didn't say. If they meant something else then they needed to communicate that and not speak in riddles or clarify what they meant..
So my conclusion on Brenlo's statement above is that they aren't appologizing for the NGE, just the way it was sprung upon the playerbase. So the end result is that we would have had the NGE forced down our throats .... anyways.
I bet my smile is bigger than yours LOLOL
Sago Mactow Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet 6/26/03 - 1/26/06 Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect DFR Councilman Tarq Server
Originally posted by Shayde I'm just glad this puts to bed the whole "LA made the nge" argument.
What I find funny is this... and I may sound like a conspiracy theorist and I'm just spitballing here, but...
I don't think anyone thinks LA came up with the NGE. Personally, I still believe LA dirrested the changes, gave the general direction & approved them, especially considering what Smed has said recently. But it's clear, and has been clear, that SOE developed this abomination, as well as treated their customers so poorly.
I'd compare it to this: SWG was a Coca Cola fountian, then LA said they wanted to catch the Pepsi Generation and told SOE to turn Coke into Pepsi. Unable to do so, SOE came up with New Coke, and LA said it was an improvement and to release it. Like the New Coke inncident, some people did like New Coke, but the vast majority rebeled and stopped drinking Coke, many saying that if they wanted Pepsi they would have bought it 3 years ago. Instead of taking a stand or offering both, SOE decide to force it on the community anyway, and deny it wasn't better, insisting this is what people really wanted.... So theor both guilty IMO...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Comments
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
This was not trying something different. SWG was something different from your other online games. Instead, you ran from something different and tried to make it into something seen elsewhere. I am truly sad that you feel happy for working with a company that would knowingly dump their loyal players in the hopes of enticing in new players.
Until SOE as a company realizes this, I have little hope for a return of the world sim that I loved.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Well done.
...naw, half a notch.
/QFE.. I was gonna bring that up also... Ever notice how the LEC producers were taking a more active approcah to the forums.. Think they are gearing up to switch it over... We never had them in there before, and to have them now jump in on threads and answer stuff is jsut too coincidental now...
Also... Leave Obraik alone.. He doesnt owe anyone an explanation, or interpretation of what Brenlo said (and I do wonder why they had Brenlo do it - Unless he was low man on totem pole for this one). If he wants to comment he will...
Also.. I wonder if the switch from Lithium to the other company is part of whats going on...
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
So, how are you guys feeling about those Trader and Smuggler revamps? ROFL
I think that Shayde might be on to something...I hope so, at least.
Love, Sodapop
It is good to see the start of the blame game and the "IM SORRY" phase..... as predicted, ALSO note-- He has nads for saying these things, he really does.
NOW THEN LETS SEE THE NGE FANBOIS SPIN THIS ONE... It is not possible, maybe just maybe they will see the writing on the wall.
If anything good comes from this it took 8 months for this to happen, almost 9 and past the 6 month mark.
The NGE failed, it took more then it gave and THEY KNOW IT, any monkey would know it..
NOW Smedley has called out LEC and the blame wars have begun... get the popcorn because NOW it is going to get intresting.
I just hope someone out of these two companies learns somthing from doing this so it does not happen again.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
It sounds like LEC pressured SOE to come out and admit to concieving the NGE.
Take this and add in the post from Smed, and then sprinkle in some recent emumours and you can tell there is a split going on...You never dis your partner in public.
Love, Sodapop
Well, to be fair, the only comment regarding 6 months that I have seen was when Smed asked for 6 months on 3/24/06.
(clicky)
Which would of placed it sometime mid september... We are in august, and no sign of the NGE improving to the point where they will get hoards of players back to SWG...
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Just wait for the Trader/Smuggler revamp dude!!!
Please?!
Love, Sodapop
Just wait for the Trader/Smuggler revamp dude!!!
Please?
LMAO.... Nope... They already screwed me over a few times...
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Just wait for the Trader/Smuggler revamp dude!!!
Please?!
I almost wet myself I was laughing so hard!!!
Just wait for the Trader/Smuggler revamp dude!!!
Please?!
OMG OMG OMG OMG, you mean you mean you mean, I can smuggle?
Just wait for the Trader/Smuggler revamp dude!!!
Please?!
OMG OMG OMG OMG, you mean you mean you mean, I can smuggle?
Im really suprised they havnt made smuggler better, after all, SoE sure as hell smuggled the NGE past us and onto live.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
True. Even with a few classic servers (still praying for them) we won't have as many players as we once had. They have pissed too many.
I find it funny they say they went wrong in those three thing... In my opinion that's the least of the problems. They knew perfectly what the players wanted, but they had WoW's success and to beat them was their main and only concern.
Cash, that's the only thing a firm like LA or SOE cares about.
Apart from that, there are many ways to get more people in a game, and I think someone made a list of good and bad ideas, and they took the wrong list... Because damn, they couldn't have done it worse!
They could have created new CU/NGE servers and improved them until people went from classic to new servers, they could have listened, they could have given content,they could have fixed bugs, instead they started removing things from the game and from time to time adding stupid useless features nobody prefered over the old ones.
I doubt they can fix it, and if they are not going to create some classic servers to please us and earn some money (even if they are static and never are patched), I'd like them to close the game and let others do something worth the IP (which I know don't see with the same eyes I did once, that all changed with the CU and the crappy episodes 1-3)
About who is to blame... No idea. They have never said wether it was SoE's or LA's idea, and I doubt it's something one person alone can decide, so we can't just say "it's XXX's fault"...
Just wait for the Trader/Smuggler revamp dude!!!
Please?!
Stick's too short, carrot's too big. Must be for the officer revamp. Not NEARLY right for traders and smugglers.
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
Just wait for the Trader/Smuggler revamp dude!!!
Please?!
The problem is they placed a turd instead of a carrot... Same shape, different color, somebody needs to visit the oculist. (or however it's said in english!)
Except one of them says "OK, fair cop guv, you got us bang to rights, NGE wasn't as well done as it might have been" and the other is still going "It wasn't us! Bad boys came and did it!".
I'm glad that's all cleared up then.
Message, mixed, much?
*********************
So, you all sat in camps and that was fun?
*********************
Sorry to those that wanted me to post here earlier :P During the day I can't really post in the threads that have alot of reading involved since I usually don't have enough time...
Anyway, to me it doesn't really seem like Brenlo is saying anything overly new. Back in March they were saying the same stuff (admitting they failied on the delivery and the testing, apologized, etc), this is just the same thing but in one post instead :P Why Brenlo? He's the chief customer relations guy (TH's boss) for all SOE games.
To those thinking he's saying the NGE is a failure, he's not. He's apologizing for how it was delivered in a rushed fasion with little communication about it. He quite clearly states that he believes/believed in the NGE concept. Why the past tense? Well, it's not really the original NGE concept anymore. There's profession diversity now, target lock, auto fire, weapon based damage, etc all things that weren't really part of the NGE concept.
I can see how you interpret this in that fashion, but asking "Where did we go wrong?" is implying IT was wrong. Not just the communication, IT...the NGE.
I think he was trying to SAY exactly what you say above. But by asking where IT went wrong IMPLIES the whole thing is a mistake in his mind. So technically I agree with you, but IMO that question indicates a lot of suppressed feelings. I could be right or wrong or either.
At any rate, I'm still smiling ear-to-ear.
I see what you are trying to say but this was his exact statement:
"Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize."
First, Brenlo asked a question: "Where did we go wrong?"
Then Brenlo answers his own question, thus making a statement: "Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most,"
Nowhere does he say "IT". Tho I can see if someone tries to read into what he is saying to try to get a good sense of his meaning, one may conclude he was meaning the NGE was wrong.
Personally I don't try to read into or try to decipher what someone is truly trying to say. I, in most cases, will take a persons words and take it for what he said ... or didn't say. If they meant something else then they needed to communicate that and not speak in riddles or clarify what they meant..
So my conclusion on Brenlo's statement above is that they aren't appologizing for the NGE, just the way it was sprung upon the playerbase. So the end result is that we would have had the NGE forced down our throats .... anyways.
I bet my smile is bigger than yours LOLOL
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
I don't think anyone thinks LA came up with the NGE. Personally, I still believe LA dirrested the changes, gave the general direction & approved them, especially considering what Smed has said recently. But it's clear, and has been clear, that SOE developed this abomination, as well as treated their customers so poorly.
I'd compare it to this: SWG was a Coca Cola fountian, then LA said they wanted to catch the Pepsi Generation and told SOE to turn Coke into Pepsi. Unable to do so, SOE came up with New Coke, and LA said it was an improvement and to release it. Like the New Coke inncident, some people did like New Coke, but the vast majority rebeled and stopped drinking Coke, many saying that if they wanted Pepsi they would have bought it 3 years ago. Instead of taking a stand or offering both, SOE decide to force it on the community anyway, and deny it wasn't better, insisting this is what people really wanted.... So theor both guilty IMO...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Agreed.
Obi posting in this thread is like a deer going to an NRA convention... that's just asking for it....
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!