Im *really* not understanding the argument that the "fault" for this trend lies somehow with the *game developer* for making a "bad game".
I mean how far are people going to go in absolving personal responsibility that even in a *video game* debate - an *entirely voluntary luxury* - the "evil corporation" gets the blame?
That argument is really infuriating. If MMOs are just a "money making scam designed to exploit the people", then dont play them. No one is forcing you to buy a $2000 computer, buy an expensive internet connection, buy a $50 game and then pay *monthly* to play it. Go donate your time at a commune somewhere.
Role playing games are about character development. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the current batch of MMOs at all. The problem is with the basic flaw in human nature that causes people who cannot "compete" to seek some advantage at any cost.
The games are *obviously* doing something right or this debate couldnt possibly exist! The answer is clearly not to throw aside character development! What an assinine assertion. Because some people are dysfunctional and need to cut corners/cheat/whatever in order to feel important in a *game*, and because OTHER people are too dysfunctional to JUST IGNORE THEM, the *entire concept* should be tossed?!
Here's a little clue. Games where you start at level 60 and compete in pure endgame content on skill ALREADY EXIST. They're called FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS! or REAL TIME STRATEGY GAMES.
As a long time MMO player who has seen this debate waged ad nauseum, I can honestly say it is just completely a pointless discussion. Between people who, seemingly, often need very real psychological help.
MMOs are about character development. For 70% of the audience that will inevitably play them, that means making a character and having fun for some period of time developing it until boredom or frustration sets in or until a more interesting game comes along, or perhaps, staying with that game forever if its right for you.
The other 30% really dont have a solid enough emotional foundation to be anywhere NEAR this genre to begin with. They will run into ALL KINDS of frustrations that will come across on forums (where they will spend more time than they do playing) like the embittered rantings of a political prisoner.
You will see rants against capitalism and western society. Rants against the evils of class hierarchy. Rants against the nefarious machinations of game developers. Rants against "cheaters" and "botters" and "farmers". Rants against "them". Rants against meleers, or casters, or rogues (or probably - rouges).
It's just so amazingly ridiculous to even burn time discussing something as frivilous as all of this, and yet this "debate" never seems to go away. People compete. Its what they do. In competitions, people cheat. Its what they do. Rules are made to define what "cheating" is. Many folks will want adherance to those rules, others will not care, still others will strive to break them. If the "cheating" has minimal/no impact on me, I tend to just accept it as a fact of life. If it effects me and is rampant, I leave the game. Very simple.
Its up to developers to decide what they want to accept and balance the cost of trying to create as secure an environment as possible (it is IMPOSSIBLE to establish complete security in ANY system), against the benefit a secured environment provides. In general, PLVLing services are LOW on the cost/benfit analysis for a developer. True exploits are at the TOP.
The people that cant deal with that at all and, instead, want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and eliminate the competition aspect alltogether, take out the character development completely, create some sort of bizarre genre that looks like an RPG, but has an artificially leveled playing field so no one "feels cheated", need to just accept that this genre isnt for them.
If the nice rewards of having a persistent fantasy/sci-fi world sand box to play in during your liesure time and build an avatar there dont outweigh the risks of seeing someone with money to burn or time to spare become top dog while you're still just a pup, then you shouldnt be playing.
Originally posted by spraguep Maybe you should all just mind your own damn buisness?
It itsn't your concern how someone else decides to play (or not play) a game. You're all like the whinning little children spamming the /LFG channel in WoW stating it shouldn't be used for general chat. Just get over yourselves.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Think you totaly missing the whole point and that it is of much concurn because of it game devs start to make changes to games wich warn't really needed due to the fact of the powerleverers so they need to rush and hurry for new content cause people getting places wich was not ment to be in such a short time period, and also never ever used the LFG channel to ask spammer to shut up, that can only be done by little children, cause someone with some comm'n sence (mostly real gamers)knows that telling not to spam on lfg channel will only feed the spammers and make it worse. Also made it clear that when you "done that been there senario" i could understand why one would take some sort of lame service of powerleveling, but other then that people only make games worse cause of pl, it has not to be illagel but its sure is close of being a cheat, a game is not designed for that, but again debatting bout this topic won't and will not get use anywhere as like i said before also Pl have to pay sub.money to a sub.MMO so the game company's can not stop Pl from growing bigger
Originally posted by jimmyman99 But from other perspective, this game IS about competition, whether you play becuase of it or not.
Games are what we make of them; your view of them is not the least bit more "correct" than anybody else's. This is entirely true for a single player games, where only YOU get to influence environment around you. If you play a multiplayer game, your view is just a small part of it, since many many people play it alongside you. That being said, I believe most players are playing the game for the competetive reason, and not to create a top level char with epic gear then run around doing nothing. As it was said several times before, MMO's were designed to develop/advance your character, not to advance into a map like most singleplayer FPS games. Logicaly, advancing your char takes time and efford, so if someone wants to bypass that process, it affects all other people who donot have the means/donot want to do so. This is very similar to the the situation Diablo2 used to have, legit players vs cheaters. Often cheaters didnt use extreme cheats, like insta death or invulnerability. But even if someone admitted to using passive cheats like duping, he/she often was as dispised as the rest of cheaters. If I play in a world and I do not use ANY tool to affect my gameplay, I expect others around me to do the same. Thats one of the reasons EQ2 service where you get to sell/buy items is NOT spread on every server. You gotta keep pure legit gamers and not so pure players separately.
Already said... but again I think that if someone pays for a powerleveling service means the game isn't well designed. There is a long way to the nearly perfect mmorpg and we are just in the beggining. Powerleveling will be inexistent in future mmorpgs.
I remember a point someone mad that this issue is wrong unless the company says it's okay. From a purely technical standpoint, I suppose that's right. However, I'm a theorist, and I believe something is right or wrong no matter what the legislator (in this case the game company) says. I think powerleveling is wrong and a disturbing trend in MMO's even if the gaming company decides "if you can't beat em, join em" and decides rather than to uphold strict standards, just to jettison them to make a profit.
Originally posted by iceman00 I remember a point someone mad that this issue is wrong unless the company says it's okay. From a purely technical standpoint, I suppose that's right. However, I'm a theorist, and I believe something is right or wrong no matter what the legislator (in this case the game company) says. I think powerleveling is wrong and a disturbing trend in MMO's even if the gaming company decides "if you can't beat em, join em" and decides rather than to uphold strict standards, just to jettison them to make a profit.
Saying something is wrong just because nobody told you it was ok? That doesn't make any sense. I do things all day long that nobody stopped and said, "it's okay to set your alarm for 4am." ," It's okay to watch channel 12."
I don't wait for someone to tell me what I can do. I try it, and if someone tells me, no, you can not do that. Then I might stop.
When it comes to power leveling. Nobody said we can not do this, atleast no one has told me. The EULA's usually sate that you may not use any third party program. Such as botting programs, such as programs that do crafting for you.
You guys piss and moan about how we are taking a short cut to the top, but how many of you get up and rub two sticks together to make a fire so that you can have toast in the morning?
How many of you go out to the chicken coop and gather eggs for your breakfest?
Do you go gather your dinner from the wild or do you let others do it for you? Do you grow your own fruits and veggies or do you let others do it for you? Heck most of you probablly eat out or go get fast food rather then cook, and you want to complain about me buying 6 to 10 levels on a toon in a game most people barely even give a rats ass about anymore?
Get a life, when I get out there and purchase my way into the president of the USA's chair, then you can whine about how I am ruining your life. When I buy out your local bars and take your favorite beer off tap, then you can complain about how I am unfair. When I go out and by a new Porche and a pimp suit and start picking up your women, then you can say I have an unfair advantage.
"A fool and his/her money are soon parted" seems to apply here.
If people wouldn't pay others to level their characters or spend vast sums of money to buy high level characters in games, this sort of thing would disappear on its' own.
As for me, I'll level my characters in whatever game that I choose to play.
That way, I only have me to blame when my character's build is done poorly.
There is no debate, having someone level your character is cheating and defeats the purpose of playing. No excuses about how the game is designed are acceptable as you don't have to play it if you don't want to.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
I say , we need more news articles about stuff advertised on this site. lol
I don't care too much about people who buy characters. I can see how it can annoy someone when they had to grind for weeks to get to level ?? while some richboy spent 500 bucks on a primo account, full of uber items that with a bit of practice will make him superior to your level grinding ass characters in every way
Back in UO of ole you could just have fun and make that guys plaing days full of misery by PKing him wherever you saw him, but those days are over.
On the other hand I think games should be about having fun, and this insane level grind implemented in so many of them is an abomination, so why not take the expensive route if you can afford it and enjoy the fun part of the game and skip the mind shattering lameness that game developers consider risk/reward.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
Originally posted by Jorev There is no debate, having someone level your character is cheating and defeats the purpose of playing. No excuses about how the game is designed are acceptable as you don't have to play it if you don't want to.
It would seem lordtwisted either doesn't understand or didn't fully read what I said. Your boss paying you to do work isn't the same as a power leveling service. That is within the same company. Powerleveling services are a 3rd party company, one that is outside and not affliated with the game company.
How would you feel if one of your employees was using your resources to make a product, then going to another company and selling it off for their own personal gain? Think of someone working for Microsoft, using Microsofts resources, then selling the code on ebay.
In addition all "spell casting warriors" are not the same. This statement seems to impy someone hasn't played very many MMOGs at all. A paladin in WoW is very different than a paladin in DAoC and a paladin in EQ1/2. I also doubt very much if handed a max level character in a game if he (or I for that matter) would be able to play it very well for quite some time. There is more to playing a class than just knowing that Spell A does This Effect.
As far as the cheaters "never touching my gameplay" they have indeed. Directly or indirectly, they have been affecting the gameplay. Several times I've grouped with someone who seemingly didn't know how to play, almost like he hit max level in less than a week..... or bought the toon. Many times this leads to player deaths, wipes and a lot of frustration for everyone as we expect That Guy to know how to play.
Cheating by any other name is still wrong. The "oh I just bought a little gold and it didn't hurt anyone" is one of the lamest excuses. How many times in real world have we heard something similar? Trying to justify it to yourself does not make it right.
Originally posted by DrowNoble It would seem lordtwisted either doesn't understand or didn't fully read what I said. Your boss paying you to do work isn't the same as a power leveling service. That is within the same company. Powerleveling services are a 3rd party company, one that is outside and not affliated with the game company. The city I live in post ads to bid on construction jobs all the time. The people that win the bidding on those rarely actually do that job, but actually pay a local contractor to fulfill the bidders obligation. So did the person that accepted the agrrement to do the job break a law or cheat by hireing another company to fulfill the job? No law was actually broken, as far as cheating like so many things in life it is an opinion, not a fact. How would you feel if one of your employees was using your resources to make a product, then going to another company and selling it off for their own personal gain? Think of someone working for Microsoft, using Microsofts resources, then selling the code on ebay. I don't feel this applys at all to the conversation. I am not cheating SOE out of anything by paying someone to play my game for me for a few days.... In addition all "spell casting warriors" are not the same. This statement seems to impy someone hasn't played very many MMOGs at all. A paladin in WoW is very different than a paladin in DAoC and a paladin in EQ1/2. I also doubt very much if handed a max level character in a game if he (or I for that matter) would be able to play it very well for quite some time. There is more to playing a class than just knowing that Spell A does This Effect. It was an "in general comment" A pally in WoW, and EQ, and EQ2 are virtually the same, they cast mainly buff and heal spells with a couple of offensive spells, and swing a weapon, while trying to tank at the same time. A SK is pretty much the same but cast evil buffs, rather then good buffs, etc.. etc... As far as me having not played many games.. well I have played just about every game on the market while I admit some of those such as DAoC, and Anarchy online I played for roughly a week. While most I played from beta to 6 months in to the release. I usually don't build high level toons, I am a casual gamer, and tend to leave a game for another before I more then 2/3rds of the way through my levels. Not because I don't know how to play, but I because I like to play my way and explore the game. As far as the cheaters "never touching my gameplay" they have indeed. Directly or indirectly, they have been affecting the gameplay. Several times I've grouped with someone who seemingly didn't know how to play, almost like he hit max level in less than a week..... or bought the toon. Many times this leads to player deaths, wipes and a lot of frustration for everyone as we expect That Guy to know how to play. For you to be in a group and jump into a monsterous battle that can wipe you entire party before knowing how each of your party members play is your own mistake. When I form a group I will attack reasonable monsters to see how my group members respond and how they handle the fights, and work my way up. I was grouped with a healer, that thought he was a battle mage just the other day. We informed him we were in need of a healer that will focus on healing, and he corrected his play style to fit ours. Cheating by any other name is still wrong. The "oh I just bought a little gold and it didn't hurt anyone" is one of the lamest excuses. How many times in real world have we heard something similar? Trying to justify it to yourself does not make it right. That is the weakest argument I have seen you put forth so far. I had a guild member that was a schitzo, atleast everyone thought he was until we discovered that it was actually two diffrent people playing the same account, they lived in a dorm in a major university, and took turns playing the account. Were they cheating too? I do agree buying items or gold off of an internet site, is a bit more unreasonable then power leveling, and I myself would consider it cheating, but like a lot of things in life I have done it, and can't change that fact now.
As far as this whole thing goes. As someone else said, I will play my game how I want, I pay for it too. You guys play your game the way you want.
I think the trend in todays MMOs is rather disturbing when I have to dedicate a few hours to the game just to play. For the most part to gain any good items, or fast experience you have to be in a group, unless you have a static group, you can be online for a couple hours waiting for a good group to be put together.
There are a lot of quest in game that can take you hours because of travel time, and or waiting on spawns to finish. Like most of the people I play with, I don't have this kind of time, when I log on during a week day I have an hour usually, two hours max. On the weekend I can sometimes dedicate a few hours, if the lawns are mowed, if the house is clean, if the kids don't need me to taxi them around, and my car doesn't need work done, and if I don't have to run errands.
As an adult we don't have the time we used to have to play these game that are generation started, and brought to life. I think it's time someone steps up and brings in a game that we with time issues can play. If I had a game that allowed me to play when I had time, how I wanted to play I would be happy. Not sure how it would be done though.
if someone tells me, no, you can not do that. Then I might stop.
When it comes to power leveling. Nobody said we can not do this, atleast no one has told me. The EULA's usually sate that you may not use any third party program. Such as botting programs, such as programs that do crafting for you.[quote]
Guess what. The EULA of every game says you cannot share accounts. When you pay someone to pl your toon, they are SHARING your account. So, I guess they did tell you it was not allowed. How about that?
Originally posted by Zorvan [quote]Originally posted by lordtwisted if someone tells me, no, you can not do that. Then I might stop. When it comes to power leveling. Nobody said we can not do this, atleast no one has told me. The EULA's usually sate that you may not use any third party program. Such as botting programs, such as programs that do crafting for you.[quote]
Guess what. The EULA of every game says you cannot share accounts. When you pay someone to pl your toon, they are SHARING your account. So, I guess they did tell you it was not allowed. How about that?
I'll tell you what, you go through and cut and paste the section of the EULA for seven diffrent games that state that, specifically, and I won't ever buy another level in those games......
[quote]Originally posted by lordtwisted [b] Originally posted by Zorvan [quote]Originally posted by lordtwisted if someone tells me, no, you can not do that. Then I might stop. When it comes to power leveling. Nobody said we can not do this, atleast no one has told me. The EULA's usually sate that you may not use any third party program. Such as botting programs, such as programs that do crafting for you.[quote]
Guess what. The EULA of every game says you cannot share accounts. When you pay someone to pl your toon, they are SHARING your account. So, I guess they did tell you it was not allowed. How about that? I'll tell you what, you go through and cut and paste the section of the EULA for seven diffrent games that state that, specifically, and I won't ever buy another level in those games......[/b][/quote]
Here ya go
Star Wars Galaxies
You may not transfer or share your Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one child to use the Account instead of you (in which case you may not use that Account). You are liable for all activities conducted through the Account, and parents or guardians are liable for the activities of their child. Corporations and other entities are not eligible to procure Accounts.
World of Warcraft
1. Establishment of a World of Warcraft Account.
A. You may establish one (1) user account (the "Account") with which to play World of Warcraft by accessing the Service pursuant to the terms, conditions and restrictions contained in this Agreement. In order to establish an Account, you must be a 'Natural Person,' who is the age of majority in the country where you are a citizen. Corporations, Limited Liability Companies, partnerships, or any other form of legal entity other than that of a "natural person" may not establish an account, and by accepting this Agreement, you hereby represent and warrant that you meet these eligibility requirements. You may not share the Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one (1) minor child to use the Account when not in use by you. You are liable for all uses of the Account. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary herein, you acknowledge and agree that you shall have no ownership or other property interest in the Account, and you further acknowledge and agree that all rights in and to the Account are and shall forever be owned by Blizzard Entertainment.
Final Fantasy XI
2.4 Restrictions. To the maximum extent permitted by law, you may not: (a) modify, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Licensed Software; (b) rent, lease, sublicense, distribute, or transmit the Licensed Software to any third party; (c) rent, lease, sell, distribute, transmit or otherwise transfer your User or other account-related information (including, but not limited to, your User ID or password information) to any third party
City of Heroes/City of Villians
4. ACCOUNT(a) Eligibility. By clicking the I Accept button, the Customer represents that he is an adult 18 years of age or older or, if under 18 years of age, that he has the consent of a parent or guardian and will provide their details where requested. Only one person may use an Account.
Guild wars
3. LICENSE TO USE
Subject to the terms of this Agreement, NC Interactive grants to you, for your personal use only, a non-exclusive, revocable, nontransferable (except as permitted in Section 4(a)) license to use the Service, and a non-exclusive, revocable, nontransferable (except as permitted in Section 4(a)) license to use the Software in connection with the Service, without charge except for new Chapters which will be charged on a prepaid basis according to Section 5.
You may not (a) sublicense, rent, lease, loan or otherwise transfer the Software or the Service (or any part thereof), including without limitation access keys
Anarchy Online
1. Accounts are available only to adults or, in their discretion, their minor children. If you are a minor, your parent(s) or guardian(s) must complete the registration process, in which case they will take full responsibility for all obligations under this Agreement. By clicking the "I Accept" button, you represent that you are an adult and are either accepting this Agreement on behalf of yourself or your child. Except as provided herein, you may not transfer or share your Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one child to use the Account instead of you (in which case you may not use that Account). You are liable for all activities conducted through the Account, and parents or guardians are liable for the activities of their child.
Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) STATION.COM
1. Fee-Based Station Games Some contents and/or services on The Station may be offered to you on a fee basis. If you elect to purchase fee-based content and/or services and transmit to SOE a purchase request, you warrant that your use of the particular credit card is authorized and that all information that you submit is true and accurate (including, without limitation, your credit card number and expiration date), and you agree to pay all fees you incur. Any account name and password supplied to you in connection with fee-based content and/or service you purchase is personal to you and the members of your household, and you may not transfer or make available your account name and password to others, including, without limitation, your co-workers. Any distribution by you of such account name and password may result in cancellation of the fee-based content and/or service without refund and in additional charges based on unauthorized use.
You lose. Thank you for playing the "Zorvan pwns joo" game. Please, try your luck next week.
Originally posted by Zorvan [quote]Originally posted by lordtwisted [b] Originally posted by Zorvan [quote]Originally posted by lordtwisted if someone tells me, no, you can not do that. Then I might stop. When it comes to power leveling. Nobody said we can not do this, atleast no one has told me. The EULA's usually sate that you may not use any third party program. Such as botting programs, such as programs that do crafting for you.[quote] Guess what. The EULA of every game says you cannot share accounts. When you pay someone to pl your toon, they are SHARING your account. So, I guess they did tell you it was not allowed. How about that? I'll tell you what, you go through and cut and paste the section of the EULA for seven diffrent games that state that, specifically, and I won't ever buy another level in those games......[/b][/quote]
Here ya go Star Wars Galaxies You may not transfer or share your Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one child to use the Account instead of you (in which case you may not use that Account). You are liable for all activities conducted through the Account, and parents or guardians are liable for the activities of their child. Corporations and other entities are not eligible to procure Accounts. I am a parent or guardian, how do I know it wasn't a child playing my account? It's doesn't say it has to be my child....
World of Warcraft 1. Establishment of a World of Warcraft Account.
A. You may establish one (1) user account (the "Account") with which to play World of Warcraft by accessing the Service pursuant to the terms, conditions and restrictions contained in this Agreement. In order to establish an Account, you must be a 'Natural Person,' who is the age of majority in the country where you are a citizen. Corporations, Limited Liability Companies, partnerships, or any other form of legal entity other than that of a "natural person" may not establish an account, and by accepting this Agreement, you hereby represent and warrant that you meet these eligibility requirements. You may not share the Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one (1) minor child to use the Account when not in use by you. You are liable for all uses of the Account. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary herein, you acknowledge and agree that you shall have no ownership or other property interest in the Account, and you further acknowledge and agree that all rights in and to the Account are and shall forever be owned by Blizzard Entertainment. When you can hit level 60 in less then two months, why would I want to pay someone to PL it? And yes you can, I have done it...with a lot of help and a continueous group.
Final Fantasy XI 2.4 Restrictions. To the maximum extent permitted by law, you may not: (a) modify, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Licensed Software; (b) rent, lease, sublicense, distribute, or transmit the Licensed Software to any third party; (c) rent, lease, sell, distribute, transmit or otherwise transfer your User or other account-related information (including, but not limited to, your User ID or password information) to any third party Ok, got me one this one, but I didn't care for this game....
City of Heroes/City of Villians 4. ACCOUNT(a) Eligibility. By clicking the “I Accept” button, the Customer represents that he is an adult 18 years of age or older or, if under 18 years of age, that he has the consent of a parent or guardian and will provide their details where requested. Only one person may use an Account. One person at a time...right?
Guild wars 3. LICENSE TO USE Subject to the terms of this Agreement, NC Interactive grants to you, for your personal use only, a non-exclusive, revocable, nontransferable (except as permitted in Section 4(a)) license to use the Service, and a non-exclusive, revocable, nontransferable (except as permitted in Section 4(a)) license to use the Software in connection with the Service, without charge except for new Chapters which will be charged on a prepaid basis according to Section 5. You may not (a) sublicense, rent, lease, loan or otherwise transfer the Software or the Service (or any part thereof), including without limitation access keys Is there even a PL service for this game? I figured there were enough hacks and real cheats no body would need one...
Anarchy Online 1. Accounts are available only to adults or, in their discretion, their minor children. If you are a minor, your parent(s) or guardian(s) must complete the registration process, in which case they will take full responsibility for all obligations under this Agreement. By clicking the "I Accept" button, you represent that you are an adult and are either accepting this Agreement on behalf of yourself or your child. Except as provided herein, you may not transfer or share your Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one child to use the Account instead of you (in which case you may not use that Account). You are liable for all activities conducted through the Account, and parents or guardians are liable for the activities of their child. Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) STATION.COM 1. Fee-Based Station Games Some contents and/or services on The Station may be offered to you on a fee basis. If you elect to purchase fee-based content and/or services and transmit to SOE a purchase request, you warrant that your use of the particular credit card is authorized and that all information that you submit is true and accurate (including, without limitation, your credit card number and expiration date), and you agree to pay all fees you incur. Any account name and password supplied to you in connection with fee-based content and/or service you purchase is personal to you and the members of your household, and you may not transfer or make available your account name and password to others, including, without limitation, your co-workers. Any distribution by you of such account name and password may result in cancellation of the fee-based content and/or service without refund and in additional charges based on unauthorized use. I didn't give it to a co-worker.... And how do you know that the person I paid to PL me, doesn't live in my house? You lose. Thank you for playing the "Zorvan pwns joo" game. Please, try your luck next week. If you own me, then get my women off my butt for playing too many game, she getting aggressive!
I miss the old flame wars, anyone else? Sometimes they were better then PvP.
*lordtwisted said it best but heres another example*
Fiew things ive noticed about the issue of powerleveling. A) some companies like UBISoft will BAN an account for a person giving out their password to others. They are seeing this as a security risk to the account itself. So powerleveling will get you banned with them if they find out. On the other side Lineage 2 is the most botted game ive ever seen so they do not moniter or enforce this very well.
the reason most people play besides the community and the leveling would be, i dont want to say a way to escape reality but to make everyone equil in a world. So that means the richest person in the world would start out the same in a game. And this is a way for average day joe to be as good as anyone else. Now you add the powerleveling companies or mony farmers or botting in genral. This unbalances a game and making the real world to have an effect on the game world. This could in effect be effecting others gameplay by unbalancing the game world. In my expieriences when you negativaly effect others gameplay expieriences your account is eligable for banning.
One other thing is earlier people related it to single player games. People who powerlevel dont want to work for their charicter and would probably follow under the crowd of people who cheat in single player games. I am not saying that they do cheat im just saying that the cheaters mentallity is shown by them wanting to be the best or beat the game. In any online game thats not MMO or MMO cheating is also a bannable offense. So if anyone who should do anything about this should be the company thats running the mmo its self. They have the rules set they just dont enfoce them wich is sad figuring ensuring customer game play is the whole point of the monthly fee.
Other games that have ingame purchases IE rakion, although not a traditional MMO do NOT have a monthly fee BUT a person can buy better stuff with real money and buy stuff that makes them level faster. THIS is a design feature of the game. THEY allow this kind of activity. They do NOT charge a monthly fee so whomever pays them more in effect can level faster and be better. Now we take in account the montly fee, these fees are to ensure everyone has an equil chance at the game and that their gameplay and service is fufilled.
Anyways beating a dead horse, in the end the MMO service provider should enforce their set rules so no matter what anyone feels its up to the MMO company to deal with it.
The reason why people play mmorpgs is because everyone is equal in that world. Evryone starts out the same and can build up on that started charecter.
But when u have powerlevelling services we agian bring in the real world . The person who has the most money has the highest level. Powerleveling services are generally unfair cause whoever pays the MMO company the most can aquire the highest level which is totally unfair. People who have absolutely no experience in the game can top a server or the game. From personal experience i have met a few level 70's who keep asking me questions which most experiences lvl 20's would know
MMOs which provide powerlevelling services are generally unbalanced . The rich guys have high levels with the exceptions of a few hardworking ones. Role-Playing in theses games is dead. Only level matters. MMos are about other stuff too.... making friends .... chatting..... helping someone level lol
Basically Power Leveling Services are totally unfair
There actually still are services out there that will PL your toon while you are playing it - so you're not breakng the EULA, although most have been run out of business by the other types.
/did the research, got the tee-shirt.
Some great discussion going on here folks. Anyone want to debate on whether the Sony Exchange Servers service is a spawn of the debbil?
*ducks*
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
Powergaming clans swap accounts all the time for advantages. You can tell because every so often you'd get a thread of, "so and so stole X from my house."
Yet I don't see anyone saying that this is wrong or cheating. But somehow, if someone gives money to someone else because they aren't hooked up with a twink clan, its all the sudden wrong?
How else do you think the average joe that ain't in the 1337 clubs like FoH going to be on a level playing field with them, when they can powerlevel all day without paying a service to do it?
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Power leveling services and all it's relatives, offer many solutions of leveling to players that believe that getting faster to the cap level of a game they play, even by someone else, is really what counts and not the way to get there.
Another brilliant invention of companies that know that sometimes "jealousy" of a low level player for a high level one can make the first think of spending some more real cash in order to reach his friends' high level faster than usual in an online game.
The real problem though is the ways these leveling services use in order to achieve their customers' demands. Exactly as it is the same problem with players that use bots, offline macroing and exploits to advance faster in their favourite Games.
Getting in the persistent and virtual worlds of some modern MMO's for a player that really wants to advance his character by himself, many times seems like getting into a single player game full of NPC's that do just nothing than grinding endlessly.
However it is the right of any player to give his purchased and owned account id to anyone he thinks that can advance faster than him despite of any EULA's that can be beaten extremely easily in any court of law of any Democratic Country, since EULA's for any kind of services, programs and everything you can imagine are real life contracts and must be read and be understood by people before they pay for the services they cover.
To me a bot program of an offline player or a power leveling service are just two sides of the same coin since i think they are both offering leveling services, paid or not.
But i would never care if i talk play and be with a player, owner of an online account or with a paid employee of a leveling service since they both respond to me and together we have fun and nice gaming.
Major game company lawyer: Did you or did you not, check the box that says you have read and understand the EULA?
Gamer: Yup....
Gamers lawyer: Did you actually read and understand the EULA?
Gamer: Nope...
Major game company lawyer: Then why did you check the box?
Gamer: 'cause you can't play the game 'til ya do....
Gamers lawyer: Did they offer you an alternative to checking the box?
Gamer: yup, don't play the game....
Gamers lawyer: That is the only other option, not a box that says you have read, but don't understand, or an I don't know how to read box?
Gamer: Nope...
Major game companys lawyer: Did you in fact read the EULA?
Gamer: Nope...
Judge: Why not?
Gamer: I get lost in all the "afore mentioned's" the "therefores" and the other lawyer talk mumbojumbo crud that these legal documents use. It seems like it's not enough to just say, don't do this, don't do that. They have to say if you or they from here out known as them, do not comply to the afore mentioned documentation of the previous misspelling of the further noted name of the prvious administrator of the recently discombobulated refrence of the previous meaning of the use of the term them, you will have your account banned. If you or the afore mentioned them previously known as they perticipate in an ongoing misspelling of the previously used version of the afore mentioned they or them or any other spelling of their, there, they're will all be held accountable for the persuant copy of the fourth paragraph of third page of the fith book of the united states of america released version, or the fifth paragraph of the eithgh page of the aforementioned title released in the eastern europian nations, not withstanding, and includeing the first third, and thirteenth releash of the african american version of the afore mentioned title. If you do not comply you will be assimilated and become a member of the borg society. Unless you have parental consent.
Judge: case dismissed....GET HIM OUT OF MY COURT ROOM!
Perhaps I am not being clear to lordtwisted as he still seems to not understand what I am saying here. I do not want to turn this into a "shoving match" between him and I, so I will try to rephrase what I said more clearly.
First he mentioned bidding on a job. This is a bad analogy on his part as it does not reflect the power leveling service. That company, say a construction company, is saying "hey we can do this build better than Other Company, so hire us to do it for you". The Big Company can then say "ok we will contract Builder A to work with us". A power leveling service you are saying "take this product, which is supposed to be for myself and myself only and modify it for me which I'll pay you X dollars". The game company is kept out of the loop and the power leveling service is making a profit on Their Software. It is no different to pay someone to level up a character for you to max level or to have them acquire The Sword of Uberness and sell it to you. Essentially it is the same thing.
He mentioned SOE also so I will comment on that. With the Station Exchange, SOE is basically doing an about face on their long time stand of selling their intellectual property. They are now trying to make a buck off it themselves while encouraging more farming. As to "I am not cheating SOE out of anything" actually you are. You are paying 3rd Party Company X dollars for SOE's intellectual property, again same as buying the Sword of Great Uberness from someone for real world cash.
The comment I made about paladins was the best illustration and his comment showed that he has indeed not played all of the games I mentioned. This is not a criticism, simply a statement. The DAoC paladin cast no buffs at all, no heals at all, everything is done with a pulsing "chant", so a better comparison would be that the paladin of DAoC is more similar to the bards of other games. If I was an expert with my WoW paladin and someone gave me a 50 DAoC paladin to play I would be rather confused as to what to do with these "chants" initially. Also games that have a shadowknight or "evil paladin" have distinct differences in how they are played. In EQ1, the SK has more offensive spells and virtually no buffs (other than self), while the paladin of EQ1 is loaded with buffs (self and other) with very little offensive spell attacks (stun & undead nukes mostly). So if I was used to a 70 SK and was given a 70 paladin in EQ1, I would not be able to play the same way as they are distinctly different on how they approach an encounter.
Jumping into an monstrous encounter that can wipe the party being "my mistake" implies some naivity on his part. This is the dreaded PUG (pick up group) that some do not relish starting. I know full well that a group of guildmates or friends would work better together than strangers, the point was that even if I don't know the warrior I expect him to know how to play one. I've seen healers consistanly mistime their heals, cloth users overnuke or nuke too soon, etc. If they did it for a short time then corrected that's fine but often they keep doing it almost as if they don't know better. That usually implies that (1) it's not their toon, (2) they used a power level service or (3) bought the account off ebay.
Finally the "weakest argument" you counter with an even weaker one. Were the two guys in the dorm cheating? Technically yes they were. Majority of the time the Terms of Service state that You and Only You use Your Account. This isn't as bad as a power leveling service though. I've known people that will say have to work that nite so my wife is gonna play the account for friday's raid (or such). Unless the Rightful User doesn't play for a month and just has his friend level up his rogue, I wouldn't have a real problem with that. At least this way the two people are leveling up at the same time, getting the experience on how to play and MOST IMPORTANTLY are Not Paying Someone Else to do it for them!
In conclusion, cheating by any other name is still cheating. Many times people try to justify it by saying "oh I'm casual and don't have time to raid to get the Staff of Uberness" or "I work too much to level up quickly". The weakest one is "well it's not hurting anybody so who cares". It can affect other people with inflated ingame prices of items, difficulty getting spawns (bot is farming kills), and/or having a group wipe cuz the Max Level Mage just took this guy over yesterday and didn't know fire nukes heal the Fire Mobs.
Oh a suggestoin, City of Heroes/Villains is a fairly good game for casual players as the missions can be done solo and have difficulty sliders you adjust to your playstyle. I'd suggest that lordtwisted if you were looking for a fun, casual-friendly MMOG.
I won't even respond to most of the "beating a dead horse" stuff you seem to be stuck on. I'm done reading all the holier then thou, thou shalt not cheat posting, and hearing how leet you are and I know nothing about gaming <even though I have been invited to beta test damn near every title out there, been an alpha tester on numerous projects, and have an ADD play style that while keeping me from being higher levels very often gives me a lot of experience with most races, and classes, in most major title MMORPG's, not to mention being a play tester, customer service, and E3 rep for a company that used to import and translate japanese RPG's for many years.>
As much as you seem to think I am a novice, I have probablly played, hacked, cheated, owned, slaughtered, more games then the average gamer has even heard of. I am far from a novice, Between my first two MMORPG's M59, and UO my charachters whitch in both games spent 90% of their time hunting random PKers, had a total of well over 12,000 kills, all of which being PKers being brought to justice. Remember PKHQ? If you have never been on the sharp end of one of their guilds members you have not played PvP.
Enough about what I have or have not done. This whole conversation towards wheter I cheated or not, is not even worth the time, my WoW account was cancelled a long time ago, and my only current account was EQ2 which is cancelled as of a couple hours ago. So there is no way my charachters power leveled or not can disturb anyone else any longer.
Until a new game comes out that I think is playable, I will remain in my real life <short of a little Oblivion>.
As far as your recomendation of CoV, CoH, you could not be further from the truth, that game does not suit a true fantasy RPG freak what so ever. I played them both, and while fun for a month or two, they get really old really fast, as do many games these days. Guess I am just getting too old.
So where is the PvP gaming? This PvE stuff has gotten old!
Comments
Im *really* not understanding the argument that the "fault" for this trend lies somehow with the *game developer* for making a "bad game".
I mean how far are people going to go in absolving personal responsibility that even in a *video game* debate - an *entirely voluntary luxury* - the "evil corporation" gets the blame?
That argument is really infuriating. If MMOs are just a "money making scam designed to exploit the people", then dont play them. No one is forcing you to buy a $2000 computer, buy an expensive internet connection, buy a $50 game and then pay *monthly* to play it. Go donate your time at a commune somewhere.
Role playing games are about character development. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the current batch of MMOs at all. The problem is with the basic flaw in human nature that causes people who cannot "compete" to seek some advantage at any cost.
The games are *obviously* doing something right or this debate couldnt possibly exist! The answer is clearly not to throw aside character development! What an assinine assertion. Because some people are dysfunctional and need to cut corners/cheat/whatever in order to feel important in a *game*, and because OTHER people are too dysfunctional to JUST IGNORE THEM, the *entire concept* should be tossed?!
Here's a little clue. Games where you start at level 60 and compete in pure endgame content on skill ALREADY EXIST. They're called FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS! or REAL TIME STRATEGY GAMES.
As a long time MMO player who has seen this debate waged ad nauseum, I can honestly say it is just completely a pointless discussion. Between people who, seemingly, often need very real psychological help.
MMOs are about character development. For 70% of the audience that will inevitably play them, that means making a character and having fun for some period of time developing it until boredom or frustration sets in or until a more interesting game comes along, or perhaps, staying with that game forever if its right for you.
The other 30% really dont have a solid enough emotional foundation to be anywhere NEAR this genre to begin with. They will run into ALL KINDS of frustrations that will come across on forums (where they will spend more time than they do playing) like the embittered rantings of a political prisoner.
You will see rants against capitalism and western society. Rants against the evils of class hierarchy. Rants against the nefarious machinations of game developers. Rants against "cheaters" and "botters" and "farmers". Rants against "them". Rants against meleers, or casters, or rogues (or probably - rouges).
It's just so amazingly ridiculous to even burn time discussing something as frivilous as all of this, and yet this "debate" never seems to go away. People compete. Its what they do. In competitions, people cheat. Its what they do. Rules are made to define what "cheating" is. Many folks will want adherance to those rules, others will not care, still others will strive to break them. If the "cheating" has minimal/no impact on me, I tend to just accept it as a fact of life. If it effects me and is rampant, I leave the game. Very simple.
Its up to developers to decide what they want to accept and balance the cost of trying to create as secure an environment as possible (it is IMPOSSIBLE to establish complete security in ANY system), against the benefit a secured environment provides. In general, PLVLing services are LOW on the cost/benfit analysis for a developer. True exploits are at the TOP.
The people that cant deal with that at all and, instead, want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and eliminate the competition aspect alltogether, take out the character development completely, create some sort of bizarre genre that looks like an RPG, but has an artificially leveled playing field so no one "feels cheated", need to just accept that this genre isnt for them.
If the nice rewards of having a persistent fantasy/sci-fi world sand box to play in during your liesure time and build an avatar there dont outweigh the risks of seeing someone with money to burn or time to spare become top dog while you're still just a pup, then you shouldnt be playing.
This is entirely true for a single player games, where only YOU get to influence environment around you. If you play a multiplayer game, your view is just a small part of it, since many many people play it alongside you. That being said, I believe most players are playing the game for the competetive reason, and not to create a top level char with epic gear then run around doing nothing. As it was said several times before, MMO's were designed to develop/advance your character, not to advance into a map like most singleplayer FPS games. Logicaly, advancing your char takes time and efford, so if someone wants to bypass that process, it affects all other people who donot have the means/donot want to do so. This is very similar to the the situation Diablo2 used to have, legit players vs cheaters. Often cheaters didnt use extreme cheats, like insta death or invulnerability. But even if someone admitted to using passive cheats like duping, he/she often was as dispised as the rest of cheaters. If I play in a world and I do not use ANY tool to affect my gameplay, I expect others around me to do the same. Thats one of the reasons EQ2 service where you get to sell/buy items is NOT spread on every server. You gotta keep pure legit gamers and not so pure players separately.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Saying something is wrong just because nobody told you it was ok? That doesn't make any sense. I do things all day long that nobody stopped and said, "it's okay to set your alarm for 4am." ," It's okay to watch channel 12."
I don't wait for someone to tell me what I can do. I try it, and if someone tells me, no, you can not do that. Then I might stop.
When it comes to power leveling. Nobody said we can not do this, atleast no one has told me. The EULA's usually sate that you may not use any third party program. Such as botting programs, such as programs that do crafting for you.
You guys piss and moan about how we are taking a short cut to the top, but how many of you get up and rub two sticks together to make a fire so that you can have toast in the morning?
How many of you go out to the chicken coop and gather eggs for your breakfest?
Do you go gather your dinner from the wild or do you let others do it for you? Do you grow your own fruits and veggies or do you let others do it for you? Heck most of you probablly eat out or go get fast food rather then cook, and you want to complain about me buying 6 to 10 levels on a toon in a game most people barely even give a rats ass about anymore?
Get a life, when I get out there and purchase my way into the president of the USA's chair, then you can whine about how I am ruining your life. When I buy out your local bars and take your favorite beer off tap, then you can complain about how I am unfair. When I go out and by a new Porche and a pimp suit and start picking up your women, then you can say I have an unfair advantage.
Not so nice guy!
If people wouldn't pay others to level their characters or spend vast sums of money to buy high level characters in games, this sort of thing would disappear on its' own.
As for me, I'll level my characters in whatever game that I choose to play.
That way, I only have me to blame when my character's build is done poorly.
Wheeeeeee!
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
I don't care too much about people who buy characters. I can see how it can annoy someone when they had to grind for weeks to get to level ?? while some richboy spent 500 bucks on a primo account, full of uber items that with a bit of practice will make him superior to your level grinding ass characters in every way
Back in UO of ole you could just have fun and make that guys plaing days full of misery by PKing him wherever you saw him, but those days are over.
On the other hand I think games should be about having fun, and this insane level grind implemented in so many of them is an abomination, so why not take the expensive route if you can afford it and enjoy the fun part of the game and skip the mind shattering lameness that game developers consider risk/reward.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
Not so nice guy!
It would seem lordtwisted either doesn't understand or didn't fully read what I said. Your boss paying you to do work isn't the same as a power leveling service. That is within the same company. Powerleveling services are a 3rd party company, one that is outside and not affliated with the game company.
How would you feel if one of your employees was using your resources to make a product, then going to another company and selling it off for their own personal gain? Think of someone working for Microsoft, using Microsofts resources, then selling the code on ebay.
In addition all "spell casting warriors" are not the same. This statement seems to impy someone hasn't played very many MMOGs at all. A paladin in WoW is very different than a paladin in DAoC and a paladin in EQ1/2. I also doubt very much if handed a max level character in a game if he (or I for that matter) would be able to play it very well for quite some time. There is more to playing a class than just knowing that Spell A does This Effect.
As far as the cheaters "never touching my gameplay" they have indeed. Directly or indirectly, they have been affecting the gameplay. Several times I've grouped with someone who seemingly didn't know how to play, almost like he hit max level in less than a week..... or bought the toon. Many times this leads to player deaths, wipes and a lot of frustration for everyone as we expect That Guy to know how to play.
Cheating by any other name is still wrong. The "oh I just bought a little gold and it didn't hurt anyone" is one of the lamest excuses. How many times in real world have we heard something similar? Trying to justify it to yourself does not make it right.
As far as this whole thing goes. As someone else said, I will play my game how I want, I pay for it too. You guys play your game the way you want.
I think the trend in todays MMOs is rather disturbing when I have to dedicate a few hours to the game just to play. For the most part to gain any good items, or fast experience you have to be in a group, unless you have a static group, you can be online for a couple hours waiting for a good group to be put together.
There are a lot of quest in game that can take you hours because of travel time, and or waiting on spawns to finish. Like most of the people I play with, I don't have this kind of time, when I log on during a week day I have an hour usually, two hours max. On the weekend I can sometimes dedicate a few hours, if the lawns are mowed, if the house is clean, if the kids don't need me to taxi them around, and my car doesn't need work done, and if I don't have to run errands.
As an adult we don't have the time we used to have to play these game that are generation started, and brought to life. I think it's time someone steps up and brings in a game that we with time issues can play. If I had a game that allowed me to play when I had time, how I wanted to play I would be happy. Not sure how it would be done though.
Not so nice guy!
[quote]Originally posted by lordtwisted
if someone tells me, no, you can not do that. Then I might stop.
When it comes to power leveling. Nobody said we can not do this, atleast no one has told me. The EULA's usually sate that you may not use any third party program. Such as botting programs, such as programs that do crafting for you.[quote]
Guess what. The EULA of every game says you cannot share accounts. When you pay someone to pl your toon, they are SHARING your account. So, I guess they did tell you it was not allowed. How about that?
Not so nice guy!
[quote]Originally posted by lordtwisted
[b]
Originally posted by Zorvan
[quote]Originally posted by lordtwisted
if someone tells me, no, you can not do that. Then I might stop.
When it comes to power leveling. Nobody said we can not do this, atleast no one has told me. The EULA's usually sate that you may not use any third party program. Such as botting programs, such as programs that do crafting for you.[quote]
Guess what. The EULA of every game says you cannot share accounts. When you pay someone to pl your toon, they are SHARING your account. So, I guess they did tell you it was not allowed. How about that?
I'll tell you what, you go through and cut and paste the section of the EULA for seven diffrent games that state that, specifically, and I won't ever buy another level in those games......[/b][/quote]
Here ya go
Star Wars Galaxies
You may not transfer or share your Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one child to use the Account instead of you (in which case you may not use that Account). You are liable for all activities conducted through the Account, and parents or guardians are liable for the activities of their child. Corporations and other entities are not eligible to procure Accounts.
World of Warcraft
1. Establishment of a World of Warcraft Account.
A. You may establish one (1) user account (the "Account") with which to play World of Warcraft by accessing the Service pursuant to the terms, conditions and restrictions contained in this Agreement. In order to establish an Account, you must be a 'Natural Person,' who is the age of majority in the country where you are a citizen. Corporations, Limited Liability Companies, partnerships, or any other form of legal entity other than that of a "natural person" may not establish an account, and by accepting this Agreement, you hereby represent and warrant that you meet these eligibility requirements. You may not share the Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one (1) minor child to use the Account when not in use by you. You are liable for all uses of the Account. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary herein, you acknowledge and agree that you shall have no ownership or other property interest in the Account, and you further acknowledge and agree that all rights in and to the Account are and shall forever be owned by Blizzard Entertainment.
Final Fantasy XI
2.4 Restrictions.
To the maximum extent permitted by law, you may not: (a) modify, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Licensed Software;
(b) rent, lease, sublicense, distribute, or transmit the Licensed Software to any third party;
(c) rent, lease, sell, distribute, transmit or otherwise transfer your User or other account-related information (including, but not limited to, your User ID or password information) to any third party
City of Heroes/City of Villians
4. ACCOUNT(a) Eligibility. By clicking the I Accept button, the Customer represents that he is an adult 18 years of age or older or, if under 18 years of age, that he has the consent of a parent or guardian and will provide their details where requested. Only one person may use an Account.
Guild wars
3. LICENSE TO USE
Subject to the terms of this Agreement, NC Interactive grants to you, for your personal use only, a non-exclusive, revocable, nontransferable (except as permitted in Section 4(a)) license to use the Service, and a non-exclusive, revocable, nontransferable (except as permitted in Section 4(a)) license to use the Software in connection with the Service, without charge except for new Chapters which will be charged on a prepaid basis according to Section 5.
You may not (a) sublicense, rent, lease, loan or otherwise transfer the Software or the Service (or any part thereof), including without limitation access keys
Anarchy Online
1. Accounts are available only to adults or, in their discretion, their minor children. If you are a minor, your parent(s) or guardian(s) must complete the registration process, in which case they will take full responsibility for all obligations under this Agreement. By clicking the "I Accept" button, you represent that you are an adult and are either accepting this Agreement on behalf of yourself or your child. Except as provided herein, you may not transfer or share your Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one child to use the Account instead of you (in which case you may not use that Account). You are liable for all activities conducted through the Account, and parents or guardians are liable for the activities of their child.
Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) STATION.COM
1. Fee-Based Station Games
Some contents and/or services on The Station may be offered to you on a fee basis. If you elect to purchase fee-based content and/or services and transmit to SOE a purchase request, you warrant that your use of the particular credit card is authorized and that all information that you submit is true and accurate (including, without limitation, your credit card number and expiration date), and you agree to pay all fees you incur. Any account name and password supplied to you in connection with fee-based content and/or service you purchase is personal to you and the members of your household, and you may not transfer or make available your account name and password to others, including, without limitation, your co-workers. Any distribution by you of such account name and password may result in cancellation of the fee-based content and/or service without refund and in additional charges based on unauthorized use.
You lose. Thank you for playing the "Zorvan pwns joo" game. Please, try your luck next week.
Not so nice guy!
*lordtwisted said it best but heres another example*
Fiew things ive noticed about the issue of powerleveling. A) some companies like UBISoft will BAN an account for a person giving out their password to others. They are seeing this as a security risk to the account itself. So powerleveling will get you banned with them if they find out. On the other side Lineage 2 is the most botted game ive ever seen so they do not moniter or enforce this very well.
One other thing is earlier people related it to single player games. People who powerlevel dont want to work for their charicter and would probably follow under the crowd of people who cheat in single player games. I am not saying that they do cheat im just saying that the cheaters mentallity is shown by them wanting to be the best or beat the game. In any online game thats not MMO or MMO cheating is also a bannable offense. So if anyone who should do anything about this should be the company thats running the mmo its self. They have the rules set they just dont enfoce them wich is sad figuring ensuring customer game play is the whole point of the monthly fee.
Other games that have ingame purchases IE rakion, although not a traditional MMO do NOT have a monthly fee BUT a person can buy better stuff with real money and buy stuff that makes them level faster. THIS is a design feature of the game. THEY allow this kind of activity. They do NOT charge a monthly fee so whomever pays them more in effect can level faster and be better. Now we take in account the montly fee, these fees are to ensure everyone has an equil chance at the game and that their gameplay and service is fufilled.
Anyways beating a dead horse, in the end the MMO service provider should enforce their set rules so no matter what anyone feels its up to the MMO company to deal with it.
The reason why people play mmorpgs is because everyone is equal in that world. Evryone starts out the same and can build up on that started charecter.
But when u have powerlevelling services we agian bring in the real world . The person who has the most money has the highest level. Powerleveling services are generally unfair cause whoever pays the MMO company the most can aquire the highest level which is totally unfair. People who have absolutely no experience in the game can top a server or the game. From personal experience i have met a few level 70's who keep asking me questions which most experiences lvl 20's would know
MMOs which provide powerlevelling services are generally unbalanced . The rich guys have high levels with the exceptions of a few hardworking ones. Role-Playing in theses games is dead. Only level matters. MMos are about other stuff too.... making friends .... chatting..... helping someone level lol
Basically Power Leveling Services are totally unfair
There actually still are services out there that will PL your toon while you are playing it - so you're not breakng the EULA, although most have been run out of business by the other types.
/did the research, got the tee-shirt.
Some great discussion going on here folks. Anyone want to debate on whether the Sony Exchange Servers service is a spawn of the debbil?
*ducks*
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
Yet I don't see anyone saying that this is wrong or cheating. But somehow, if someone gives money to someone else because they aren't hooked up with a twink clan, its all the sudden wrong?
How else do you think the average joe that ain't in the 1337 clubs like FoH going to be on a level playing field with them, when they can powerlevel all day without paying a service to do it?
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Power leveling services and all it's relatives, offer many solutions of leveling to players that believe that getting faster to the cap level of a game they play, even by someone else, is really what counts and not the way to get there.
Another brilliant invention of companies that know that sometimes "jealousy" of a low level player for a high level one can make the first think of spending some more real cash in order to reach his friends' high level faster than usual in an online game.
The real problem though is the ways these leveling services use in order to achieve their customers' demands. Exactly as it is the same problem with players that use bots, offline macroing and exploits to advance faster in their favourite Games.
Getting in the persistent and virtual worlds of some modern MMO's for a player that really wants to advance his character by himself, many times seems like getting into a single player game full of NPC's that do just nothing than grinding endlessly.
However it is the right of any player to give his purchased and owned account id to anyone he thinks that can advance faster than him despite of any EULA's that can be beaten extremely easily in any court of law of any Democratic Country, since EULA's for any kind of services, programs and everything you can imagine are real life contracts and must be read and be understood by people before they pay for the services they cover.
To me a bot program of an offline player or a power leveling service are just two sides of the same coin since i think they are both offering leveling services, paid or not.
But i would never care if i talk play and be with a player, owner of an online account or with a paid employee of a leveling service since they both respond to me and together we have fun and nice gaming.
Major game company lawyer: Did you or did you not, check the box that says you have read and understand the EULA?
Gamer: Yup....
Gamers lawyer: Did you actually read and understand the EULA?
Gamer: Nope...
Major game company lawyer: Then why did you check the box?
Gamer: 'cause you can't play the game 'til ya do....
Gamers lawyer: Did they offer you an alternative to checking the box?
Gamer: yup, don't play the game....
Gamers lawyer: That is the only other option, not a box that says you have read, but don't understand, or an I don't know how to read box?
Gamer: Nope...
Major game companys lawyer: Did you in fact read the EULA?
Gamer: Nope...
Judge: Why not?
Gamer: I get lost in all the "afore mentioned's" the "therefores" and the other lawyer talk mumbojumbo crud that these legal documents use. It seems like it's not enough to just say, don't do this, don't do that. They have to say if you or they from here out known as them, do not comply to the afore mentioned documentation of the previous misspelling of the further noted name of the prvious administrator of the recently discombobulated refrence of the previous meaning of the use of the term them, you will have your account banned. If you or the afore mentioned them previously known as they perticipate in an ongoing misspelling of the previously used version of the afore mentioned they or them or any other spelling of their, there, they're will all be held accountable for the persuant copy of the fourth paragraph of third page of the fith book of the united states of america released version, or the fifth paragraph of the eithgh page of the aforementioned title released in the eastern europian nations, not withstanding, and includeing the first third, and thirteenth releash of the african american version of the afore mentioned title. If you do not comply you will be assimilated and become a member of the borg society. Unless you have parental consent.
Judge: case dismissed....GET HIM OUT OF MY COURT ROOM!
Not so nice guy!
Perhaps I am not being clear to lordtwisted as he still seems to not understand what I am saying here. I do not want to turn this into a "shoving match" between him and I, so I will try to rephrase what I said more clearly.
First he mentioned bidding on a job. This is a bad analogy on his part as it does not reflect the power leveling service. That company, say a construction company, is saying "hey we can do this build better than Other Company, so hire us to do it for you". The Big Company can then say "ok we will contract Builder A to work with us". A power leveling service you are saying "take this product, which is supposed to be for myself and myself only and modify it for me which I'll pay you X dollars". The game company is kept out of the loop and the power leveling service is making a profit on Their Software. It is no different to pay someone to level up a character for you to max level or to have them acquire The Sword of Uberness and sell it to you. Essentially it is the same thing.
He mentioned SOE also so I will comment on that. With the Station Exchange, SOE is basically doing an about face on their long time stand of selling their intellectual property. They are now trying to make a buck off it themselves while encouraging more farming. As to "I am not cheating SOE out of anything" actually you are. You are paying 3rd Party Company X dollars for SOE's intellectual property, again same as buying the Sword of Great Uberness from someone for real world cash.
The comment I made about paladins was the best illustration and his comment showed that he has indeed not played all of the games I mentioned. This is not a criticism, simply a statement. The DAoC paladin cast no buffs at all, no heals at all, everything is done with a pulsing "chant", so a better comparison would be that the paladin of DAoC is more similar to the bards of other games. If I was an expert with my WoW paladin and someone gave me a 50 DAoC paladin to play I would be rather confused as to what to do with these "chants" initially. Also games that have a shadowknight or "evil paladin" have distinct differences in how they are played. In EQ1, the SK has more offensive spells and virtually no buffs (other than self), while the paladin of EQ1 is loaded with buffs (self and other) with very little offensive spell attacks (stun & undead nukes mostly). So if I was used to a 70 SK and was given a 70 paladin in EQ1, I would not be able to play the same way as they are distinctly different on how they approach an encounter.
Jumping into an monstrous encounter that can wipe the party being "my mistake" implies some naivity on his part. This is the dreaded PUG (pick up group) that some do not relish starting. I know full well that a group of guildmates or friends would work better together than strangers, the point was that even if I don't know the warrior I expect him to know how to play one. I've seen healers consistanly mistime their heals, cloth users overnuke or nuke too soon, etc. If they did it for a short time then corrected that's fine but often they keep doing it almost as if they don't know better. That usually implies that (1) it's not their toon, (2) they used a power level service or (3) bought the account off ebay.
Finally the "weakest argument" you counter with an even weaker one. Were the two guys in the dorm cheating? Technically yes they were. Majority of the time the Terms of Service state that You and Only You use Your Account. This isn't as bad as a power leveling service though. I've known people that will say have to work that nite so my wife is gonna play the account for friday's raid (or such). Unless the Rightful User doesn't play for a month and just has his friend level up his rogue, I wouldn't have a real problem with that. At least this way the two people are leveling up at the same time, getting the experience on how to play and MOST IMPORTANTLY are Not Paying Someone Else to do it for them!
In conclusion, cheating by any other name is still cheating. Many times people try to justify it by saying "oh I'm casual and don't have time to raid to get the Staff of Uberness" or "I work too much to level up quickly". The weakest one is "well it's not hurting anybody so who cares". It can affect other people with inflated ingame prices of items, difficulty getting spawns (bot is farming kills), and/or having a group wipe cuz the Max Level Mage just took this guy over yesterday and didn't know fire nukes heal the Fire Mobs.
Oh a suggestoin, City of Heroes/Villains is a fairly good game for casual players as the missions can be done solo and have difficulty sliders you adjust to your playstyle. I'd suggest that lordtwisted if you were looking for a fun, casual-friendly MMOG.
I won't even respond to most of the "beating a dead horse" stuff you seem to be stuck on. I'm done reading all the holier then thou, thou shalt not cheat posting, and hearing how leet you are and I know nothing about gaming <even though I have been invited to beta test damn near every title out there, been an alpha tester on numerous projects, and have an ADD play style that while keeping me from being higher levels very often gives me a lot of experience with most races, and classes, in most major title MMORPG's, not to mention being a play tester, customer service, and E3 rep for a company that used to import and translate japanese RPG's for many years.>
As much as you seem to think I am a novice, I have probablly played, hacked, cheated, owned, slaughtered, more games then the average gamer has even heard of. I am far from a novice, Between my first two MMORPG's M59, and UO my charachters whitch in both games spent 90% of their time hunting random PKers, had a total of well over 12,000 kills, all of which being PKers being brought to justice. Remember PKHQ? If you have never been on the sharp end of one of their guilds members you have not played PvP.
Enough about what I have or have not done. This whole conversation towards wheter I cheated or not, is not even worth the time, my WoW account was cancelled a long time ago, and my only current account was EQ2 which is cancelled as of a couple hours ago. So there is no way my charachters power leveled or not can disturb anyone else any longer.
Until a new game comes out that I think is playable, I will remain in my real life <short of a little Oblivion>.
As far as your recomendation of CoV, CoH, you could not be further from the truth, that game does not suit a true fantasy RPG freak what so ever. I played them both, and while fun for a month or two, they get really old really fast, as do many games these days. Guess I am just getting too old.
So where is the PvP gaming? This PvE stuff has gotten old!
Not so nice guy!