1- We are not Carebear, we are hardcore PvEers as you are hardcore PvPers. 2- It is a RPG game not a competition game like FPS or RTS. 3- We like the game, the lore, the exploration. 4- We like to do what the Devs have put out there. 5- UO was the very first MMO, why you think they had to change it. 6- More ppl wants to play PvE. 7- A company as spent millions of hours and money to developpe a game, they want the ppl to get into the lore, not just bashing each other for no reason (yes there is a reason, I am stronger than you, til you beat me). They would have made an FPS instead for much cheaper. 8- PvP is not the main reason in an MMO, RPG is the main reason. 9- Spare me your "you never had good PvP, your way is meaningless...blah.blah.blah....." Nothing is more meaningless than killing another player because you have more experience in the game. (like playing an FPS against someone who knows all the maps). 10- It is not about what we lost or won, it is about that we want to PvE, you guys want PvP, find they have created special area to do it, but no, it is not enough, because there you can not bash anyone for no reason. You know ppl there want to kill you as well and they are prepare.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
So if you guys have Lineage I & II, UO, and EVE, why do you keep saying that there are no 'hardcore' PVP games to play, and that 'carebears' are so terrible for making developers not make them?
Originally posted by Pantastic So if you guys have Lineage I & II, UO, and EVE, why do you keep saying that there are no 'hardcore' PVP games to play, and that 'carebears' are so terrible for making developers not make them?
Lineage and UO are both old, and in both cases have had their pvp systems dumbed down short of so called "hardcore". EVE does not appeal to many players, it takes too much patience.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Originally posted by BattleFelon I think it's funny the whole idea of being truly "good" or "evil" in a freaking video game. In real life I consider myself a contributing member of society but in games I like to play "evil" classes like necromancers in GW or the foresaken in "WOW." Likewise, I've met plenty of total asshats in real life who pretend to be noble paladins or whatever so people in-game think of them as worthy human beings. The truth is there is almost nothing you can do in a game that makes you a hero or a villian. Even the worst ganker is at most an irritant. These players will never live up to the juvenile fantasy of being a super-villian or avenging rebel without a cause. Likewise, being the nice guy and "saving" other players really isn't that heroic because all you're really doing is playing a role IN A GAME. It's the equivalent of some sports star being the ultimate teamplayer and class act on the court/field but who beats his wife and kids when he comes home. Nothing he does in game will make up for how he acts in real life. Or what if a player throws a temper tantrum and punches another player in a game (like Zidane in the World Cup)? Most fans don't look at such players as badass villians worthy of fear and respect - rather they see them as poor losers and babies. As a "carebear" I don't think I lose anything at all in my game. I'm decent at organized PVP and get a rush when I win a close match against well-known guilds. Somehow I think that rush would be greatly diminished if I was minding my own business only to be one-shotted from behind by some ganker. Being a carebear doesn't mean you don't take chances or compete with other players - it just means you want at least some buffer from the stupidity and petty bullying that happens too often in real life.
Originally posted by Aelfinn Lineage and UO are both old, and in both cases have had their pvp systems dumbed down short of so called "hardcore".
So you're saying that susustudio's examples show that while PVP may be popular, 'hardcore' PVP isn't?
EVE does not appeal to many players, it takes too much patience.
Right, it's too 'hardcore' to appeal to many people. You have to patiently mine/rat/trade/etc for your ships over and over to be able to replace losses, which is simply a part of being 'hardcore' PVP, but it doesn't appeal to many people. That's not an excuse for the 'hardcore' though, they shouldn't be wusses whinng because the game makes them do what they say they want it to.
Originally posted by slapme7times risk can turn boring and seemingly meaningless activities into exciting ones.
without threat of loss, winning becomes meaningless.
without consequences, our choices make no difference.
why do you think people have been gambling for thousands and thousands of years? it's not because drawing straws or flipping coins is fun. it's because there's risk involved- chance of failure and chance of success, and then consequences later which make it important.
Slapme7times, gets it. He understands life.
The carebears, however, are lost in fantasy worlds that will eventually bore them.
Originally posted by Aelfinn Lineage and UO are both old, and in both cases have had their pvp systems dumbed down short of so called "hardcore".
So you're saying that susustudio's examples show that while PVP may be popular, 'hardcore' PVP isn't?
No his examples are of old and under developed MMO's.
PvP (open and hardcore) is just very simple to code compared to games with AI. What you are looking at is very early early prototypes that have evolved into what we have to day.
UO is the The Model T Ford of the MMORPG world, and WoW is the Vauxhall Vectra. It has cruise control a five speed gearbox, electric windows 16 valves twin cams tyres with treads anti lock brakes. Disc brakes. Power steering, A roof. A sun roof. A radio
etc etc etc.
No one wants just open PvP. It's just one tiny feature and hardly the all important sales piece.
Games that just haven't bothered to include any programming don't attract peoples money in the same way WoW or EQ2 does.
People don't play Eve for the great content they play it because it is one of the few multiplayer space games on the market. It might be under developed in MMO terms, but it's still more developed than many/most other space multiplayers out there.
Originally posted by sempiternal Originally posted by slapme7times risk can turn boring and seemingly meaningless activities into exciting ones.
without threat of loss, winning becomes meaningless.
without consequences, our choices make no difference.
why do you think people have been gambling for thousands and thousands of years? it's not because drawing straws or flipping coins is fun. it's because there's risk involved- chance of failure and chance of success, and then consequences later which make it important.
Slapme7times, gets it. He understands life.
The carebears, however, are lost in fantasy worlds that will eventually bore them.
If it was free to replay, I would agree with you. But i'm not willing to pay for contentless, uninspired gaming. I understand the thrill and the replayability factor of risk, although in time that too will still grow boring.
But if I'm paying dollar you will have to actually write some code.
If we want to look into the history of games, they have always been separated into two broad groups: games of skill, and games of chance. What makes these arguments from the PvPers confusing is that they just cannot figure out whether PvP is a game of skill, or a game of chance.
On the one hand, you have these people worshiping "risk versus reward" as the great equalizer, which is pretty much the concept of random chance, where skill is not as important as sheer luck.
On the other hand, you have these same people saying that PvP takes intelligence, skill, teamwork, etc. Which means that someone who is less intelligent, skillful, coordinated, ambitious, etc. will never win, because there is no luck factor to even the odds.
So as soon as we can determine exactly what PvP should be: a game of chance, or a game of skill; we can then start to figure out what makes PvP so unliked, and why it isn't working for many players.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by sempiternal Originally posted by slapme7times risk can turn boring and seemingly meaningless activities into exciting ones.
without threat of loss, winning becomes meaningless.
without consequences, our choices make no difference.
why do you think people have been gambling for thousands and thousands of years? it's not because drawing straws or flipping coins is fun. it's because there's risk involved- chance of failure and chance of success, and then consequences later which make it important.
Slapme7times, gets it. He understands life.
The carebears, however, are lost in fantasy worlds that will eventually bore them.
This is not what life is about. LIfe has risk, it has consequences, it has threats. It also has cooperation, group dynamics and social rules. This is not life either. All of those things are just a part of life.
If you still think life is just competition you are missing out on a great deal of life, in effect ripping yourself off.
Kyle Stanton
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by sempiternal Originally posted by slapme7times risk can turn boring and seemingly meaningless activities into exciting ones.
without threat of loss, winning becomes meaningless.
without consequences, our choices make no difference.
why do you think people have been gambling for thousands and thousands of years? it's not because drawing straws or flipping coins is fun. it's because there's risk involved- chance of failure and chance of success, and then consequences later which make it important.
Slapme7times, gets it. He understands life.
The carebears, however, are lost in fantasy worlds that will eventually bore them.
you seriously need to get yourself checked.
because 7times was talking about games ( that he prefers, on a sidenote) it has nothing to with real life.
PvP only works like someone already said with a skill tweaking system and not on a lvling system. Skill tweaking systems like the old UO made everyone the same the player decided what skill to tweak to make him more powerfull our less powerfull. You where you're own power. On a lvl and raceclasses ability system People will cry about to powerfull races/classes very fast because the dev people of the game decide the skill balance.
The human habit is always to be the best and lots will grab 3th party tools our use bugs to become "better". That spoiled allot of fun for me in lots of games. Where i do hard work to tweak my skills our lvl to that high lvl someone else uses macro prgs. And at a certain point you are forced to use it to else you can't compete and win.
a Game dev. need to take hard action on 3th party prg's and bug abusers those hurting the mmorpg's more then those carebears.
Hmm carebears brought instanced dungeons and pvp that is something i hate. Uhhh just kill them over and over then they will go away.
Man, I see less spin doctoring on a rightwing new show.
Putting people into categories, in this case; Good, evil, pvp'er, PvE'er"carebare". then assigning ridiculous stereotypes in the pursuit of misrepresenting the truth can be effective, but come on guys, this is a video game discussion.
Indeed, the original poster's view on "carebears" was frightenly close to Nazi rhetoric right out of the 1930's. Its a tried and true argumentation style which does nothing for me.
I think there are some people in this discussion that would be well served by trying to look for the truth, rather then manufacture it. And the true is that even though some people may fit vaguely into preconceived groups, everybody, every individual brings a unique perspective to the endeavor.
Giving another player in a game to kill the other and jack his stuff without any rules, ie making a game "hardcore" doesn't appeal to me. Does that mean I'm a "carebear?" No, it simply means I like structure in my violence. As gentlemen once dueled in the past. They did not stab one in other in the back and proclaim they have "pwn'ed" the other guy. No it was far more noble, more purposeful, and in that, far more useful.
Originally posted by slapme7times that's the point.
if money was free and easy to get, gambling would be pointless.
it would be like gambling for rocks... it wouldnt matter what happened.
something's value is determined usually by it's scarceness, that you have it and someone else wants it.
if everyone won when they gambled, the winnings would mean nothing, because they then would not be worth anything. nobody would desire your winnings, becuase they have ample ammounts of winnings themselves...if everyone won when they gambled, the casinos would close...etc, etc.
What you fail to see is that "gambling", and how you're referencing it here, is a question of choice: do you wish to gamble, or don't you? However, most people prefer not to, nor do they feel the need to gamble, because they make their money the way that Smith Barney says..."They earn it." The individual who is choosing to gamble does not have someone else twisting their arm and forcing them to do it; it's a personal choice. Gambling is a terrible analogy. Perhaps you meant to infer that there is an adrenaline rush from not being able to anticipate the unknown, or you have that constant "high" knowing you're in a dangerous territory and may become prey at any time.
But realize, mmorpg's are games people play to enjoy themselves...and this does not mean they enjoy losing the items they've worked long to attain only to be ganked and looted by losers who either don't work and stay home to play games all day, or they're just bullies at heart and enjoy harrassing people. It doesn't work in the real world, and it doesn't work in games. You will always be held accountable for your actions. And so, if the result is that PvP has become watered down...well, I certainly prefer that instead of losing what I've worked for. After all, I'm paying a subscription to enjoy myself...not to have someone steal what I took the time to attain. And if you can't handle the morons jeering at you, or insulting you, or trying to get you angry...well, you deserve nothing less. Ignore them and you'll spoil their fun.
And until there is a way to filter the gankers/greifers from PvP (if that is even possible), it's going to remain a "carebear" world, so-to-speak. You'll just have to accept that, find a different game, or turn off your computer and do something else.
Originally posted by deeviant Man, I see less spin doctoring on a rightwing new show.
Putting people into categories, in this case; Good, evil, pvp'er, PvE'er"carebare". then assigning ridiculous stereotypes in the pursuit of misrepresenting the truth can be effective, but come on guys, this is a video game discussion.
Indeed, the original poster's view on "carebears" was frightenly close to Nazi rhetoric right out of the 1930's. Its a tried and true argumentation style which does nothing for me.
I think there are some people in this discussion that would be well served by trying to look for the truth, rather then manufacture it. And the true is that even though some people may fit vaguely into preconceived groups, everybody, every individual brings a unique perspective to the endeavor.
Giving another player in a game to kill the other and jack his stuff without any rules, ie making a game "hardcore" doesn't appeal to me. Does that mean I'm a "carebear?" No, it simply means I like structure in my violence. As gentlemen once dueled in the past. They did not stab one in other in the back and proclaim they have "pwn'ed" the other guy. No it was far more noble, more purposeful, and in that, far more useful.
I like you, cheers for another person who freaking sees that everything is opinion and knows that these are just games.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Originally posted by Laneo Originally posted by ghost0475- UO was the very first MMO, why you think they had to change it. Umm...Meridian 59 came before UO which makes YOU a worthless poster. YES you are!That line alone makes you unworthy of posting anything.Nuff said...Back to WoW with you where your types belong!
It doesn't make his post worthless, just he's a bit young most likely
Legends of Kesmai (Successor to the MUD (with custom gui) Islands of Kesmai) and NWN (on AOL) came long before M59... but almost no one has heard of them. They cost a lot of money to play and they were graphical with many hundreds, maybe even a few thousand people actively playing at a given time... but they were of much larger scale than even big muds like batmud (still running... 15 years later... bat.org 23) at the time.
Most people who are serious in the MMO community don't even remember MUCKs MUSHes MOOs and door games.
Originally posted by sempiternal Slapme7times, gets it. He understands life. The carebears, however, are lost in fantasy worlds that will eventually bore them.
Obviously based on your signature you've never gotten bored of any games and moved onto a new one.
Originally posted by Laneo Originally posted by ghost0475- UO was the very first MMO, why you think they had to change it.
Umm...Meridian 59 came before UO which makes YOU a worthless poster. YES you are!That line alone makes you unworthy of posting anything.Nuff said...Back to WoW with you where your types belong!
It doesn't make his post worthless, just he's a bit young most likely
Legends of Kesmai (Successor to the MUD (with custom gui) Islands of Kesmai) and NWN (on AOL) came long before M59... but almost no one has heard of them. They cost a lot of money to play and they were graphical with many hundreds, maybe even a few thousand people actively playing at a given time... but they were of much larger scale than even big muds like batmud (still running... 15 years later... bat.org 23) at the time.
Most people who are serious in the MMO community don't even remember MUCKs MUSHes MOOs and door games.
Shrug.
Sorry if I was misinform, but the way people talk on this forum, it sounds like UO was the first reel MMO open PvP.
To Shadus, it is not because I am too young, if you look at my user info I am older than you. I have never played UO, I started to play MMO with EQ.
To Laneo, because I have 1 misinformation I am a worthless poster, it is 1 point out 10 that was wrong. But your post was worthless, it did not bring anything to this topic.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
Some of the funniest things I have read are in this post.
For instance PvE is boring fighting bots, just about every game I can think of has "bots", from space invaders to WoW.
So playing a game like Halo (or WoW or EQ1, 2 etc) is boring unless its PvP, probably in your opinion, in mine not so and in millions upon millions of other gamers would agree with me.
If you dont like PvE fine, go play a game that caters for your needs but please don't blame people cos they won't play with you (or tell your mum might work), how old are you?
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
"Oh look PvPers trying to proove to people their not Gankers, so I'll post a video of some Arsegoblin ganking noobs in a Noob Zone".
Who needs to debate when your side can win it for us.
I'lll tel you why FFA PvP is not in games anymore.
You don't teach a kid to swim by throwing it off the 10m high board into the deep end with no flotation devices.
You don't teach people to like PvP by walking up to them and ganking them, when their still trying to learn the game.
You don't run a succesful game by letting idiots piss off your new costumers and making them quit before they have finished their Free Trial.
You don't makes games with FFA PvP because some twat will always act like a child and ruin it.
People do not want to be forced into anything, that is a fact.
People do not want to do stuff, they feel they are not prepared for.
Why do you think modern Armies train so much, so when the time comes the soldiers feel they have the tools to not die and therefor the self confidence to put their lives on the line.
You give people the time to learn how to play and build their confidence, they will PvP.
You smash them in the face 3 minutes after they enter the game, they will walk away.
I dont understand this conflict between carebears and pkers...
So the carebears prefer pve/fairness/no looting...okay...let them play daoc or w/e
pkers like to grief/cheat/loot etc...okay go play L2
Why do people whine so much? *applies to both sterotypes*
They're just games, so the carebear looses his weapon and boots in L2...k fight some lower lvl mobs till you can afford to replace it...or cancel account and move on to somthing new.
The pker is mad cuz he isnt allowed to kill someone in w/e game at w/e zone. k...go somewhere were you can or play another game...
Im probably a carebear, back when L2 was first out, i was 20+++ and had to deal with bots, and griefers. Lost some stuff didnt want to have to replace it, so i just canceled account and moved on to somthing else
Comments
2- It is a RPG game not a competition game like FPS or RTS.
3- We like the game, the lore, the exploration.
4- We like to do what the Devs have put out there.
5- UO was the very first MMO, why you think they had to change it.
6- More ppl wants to play PvE.
7- A company as spent millions of hours and money to developpe a game, they want the ppl to get into the lore, not just bashing each other for no reason (yes there is a reason, I am stronger than you, til you beat me). They would have made an FPS instead for much cheaper.
8- PvP is not the main reason in an MMO, RPG is the main reason.
9- Spare me your "you never had good PvP, your way is meaningless...blah.blah.blah....." Nothing is more meaningless than killing another player because you have more experience in the game. (like playing an FPS against someone who knows all the maps).
10- It is not about what we lost or won, it is about that we want to PvE, you guys want PvP, find they have created special area to do it, but no, it is not enough, because there you can not bash anyone for no reason. You know ppl there want to kill you as well and they are prepare.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
may i remind you about Lineage and Lineage 2? right until WoW arrived, they were the most played games by a LONG LONG LONG shot.
well, maybe they are PVE games after all
So if you guys have Lineage I & II, UO, and EVE, why do you keep saying that there are no 'hardcore' PVP games to play, and that 'carebears' are so terrible for making developers not make them?
Lineage and UO are both old, and in both cases have had their pvp systems dumbed down short of so called "hardcore". EVE does not appeal to many players, it takes too much patience.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Meridian 59 came before UO which makes YOU a worthless poster. YES you are!
That line alone makes you unworthy of posting anything.
Nuff said...Back to WoW with you where your types belong!
Nobody is perfect...My name is Nobody
So you're saying that susustudio's examples show that while PVP may be popular, 'hardcore' PVP isn't?
Right, it's too 'hardcore' to appeal to many people. You have to patiently mine/rat/trade/etc for your ships over and over to be able to replace losses, which is simply a part of being 'hardcore' PVP, but it doesn't appeal to many people. That's not an excuse for the 'hardcore' though, they shouldn't be wusses whinng because the game makes them do what they say they want it to.
Slapme7times, gets it. He understands life.
The carebears, however, are lost in fantasy worlds that will eventually bore them.
So you're saying that susustudio's examples show that while PVP may be popular, 'hardcore' PVP isn't?
No his examples are of old and under developed MMO's.
PvP (open and hardcore) is just very simple to code compared to games with AI. What you are looking at is very early early prototypes that have evolved into what we have to day.
UO is the The Model T Ford of the MMORPG world, and WoW is the Vauxhall Vectra. It has cruise control a five speed gearbox, electric windows 16 valves twin cams tyres with treads anti lock brakes. Disc brakes. Power steering, A roof. A sun roof. A radio
etc etc etc.
No one wants just open PvP. It's just one tiny feature and hardly the all important sales piece.
Games that just haven't bothered to include any programming don't attract peoples money in the same way WoW or EQ2 does.
People don't play Eve for the great content they play it because it is one of the few multiplayer space games on the market. It might be under developed in MMO terms, but it's still more developed than many/most other space multiplayers out there.
Slapme7times, gets it. He understands life.
The carebears, however, are lost in fantasy worlds that will eventually bore them.
If it was free to replay, I would agree with you. But i'm not willing to pay for contentless, uninspired gaming. I understand the thrill and the replayability factor of risk, although in time that too will still grow boring.
But if I'm paying dollar you will have to actually write some code.
If we want to look into the history of games, they have always been separated into two broad groups: games of skill, and games of chance. What makes these arguments from the PvPers confusing is that they just cannot figure out whether PvP is a game of skill, or a game of chance.
On the one hand, you have these people worshiping "risk versus reward" as the great equalizer, which is pretty much the concept of random chance, where skill is not as important as sheer luck.
On the other hand, you have these same people saying that PvP takes intelligence, skill, teamwork, etc. Which means that someone who is less intelligent, skillful, coordinated, ambitious, etc. will never win, because there is no luck factor to even the odds.
So as soon as we can determine exactly what PvP should be: a game of chance, or a game of skill; we can then start to figure out what makes PvP so unliked, and why it isn't working for many players.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Slapme7times, gets it. He understands life.
The carebears, however, are lost in fantasy worlds that will eventually bore them.
This is not what life is about. LIfe has risk, it has consequences, it has threats. It also has cooperation, group dynamics and social rules. This is not life either. All of those things are just a part of life.
If you still think life is just competition you are missing out on a great deal of life, in effect ripping yourself off.
Kyle Stanton
Slapme7times, gets it. He understands life.
The carebears, however, are lost in fantasy worlds that will eventually bore them.
you seriously need to get yourself checked.
because 7times was talking about games ( that he prefers, on a sidenote)
it has nothing to with real life.
The human habit is always to be the best and lots will grab 3th party tools our use bugs to become "better". That spoiled allot of fun for me in lots of games. Where i do hard work to tweak my skills our lvl to that high lvl someone else uses macro prgs. And at a certain point you are forced to use it to else you can't compete and win.
a Game dev. need to take hard action on 3th party prg's and bug abusers those hurting the mmorpg's more then those carebears.
Hmm carebears brought instanced dungeons and pvp that is something i hate. Uhhh just kill them over and over then they will go away.
Man, I see less spin doctoring on a rightwing new show.
Putting people into categories, in this case; Good, evil, pvp'er,
PvE'er"carebare". then assigning ridiculous stereotypes in the pursuit of misrepresenting the truth can be effective, but come on
guys, this is a video game discussion.
Indeed, the original poster's view on "carebears" was frightenly
close to Nazi rhetoric right out of the 1930's. Its a tried and true
argumentation style which does nothing for me.
I think there are some people in this discussion that would be well served by trying to look for the truth, rather then manufacture
it. And the true is that even though some people may fit vaguely into preconceived
groups, everybody, every individual brings a unique perspective to the
endeavor.
Giving another player in a game to kill the other and jack his stuff without
any rules, ie making a game "hardcore" doesn't appeal to me. Does
that mean I'm a "carebear?" No, it simply means I like structure in
my violence. As gentlemen once dueled in the past. They did not stab one in
other in the back and proclaim they have "pwn'ed" the other guy. No
it was far more noble, more purposeful, and in that, far more useful.
What you fail to see is that "gambling", and how you're referencing it here, is a question of choice: do you wish to gamble, or don't you? However, most people prefer not to, nor do they feel the need to gamble, because they make their money the way that Smith Barney says..."They earn it." The individual who is choosing to gamble does not have someone else twisting their arm and forcing them to do it; it's a personal choice. Gambling is a terrible analogy. Perhaps you meant to infer that there is an adrenaline rush from not being able to anticipate the unknown, or you have that constant "high" knowing you're in a dangerous territory and may become prey at any time.
But realize, mmorpg's are games people play to enjoy themselves...and this does not mean they enjoy losing the items they've worked long to attain only to be ganked and looted by losers who either don't work and stay home to play games all day, or they're just bullies at heart and enjoy harrassing people. It doesn't work in the real world, and it doesn't work in games. You will always be held accountable for your actions. And so, if the result is that PvP has become watered down...well, I certainly prefer that instead of losing what I've worked for. After all, I'm paying a subscription to enjoy myself...not to have someone steal what I took the time to attain. And if you can't handle the morons jeering at you, or insulting you, or trying to get you angry...well, you deserve nothing less. Ignore them and you'll spoil their fun.
And until there is a way to filter the gankers/greifers from PvP (if that is even possible), it's going to remain a "carebear" world, so-to-speak. You'll just have to accept that, find a different game, or turn off your computer and do something else.
(Edited for spelling errors only)
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
It doesn't make his post worthless, just he's a bit young most likely
Legends of Kesmai (Successor to the MUD (with custom gui) Islands of Kesmai) and NWN (on AOL) came long before M59... but almost no one has heard of them. They cost a lot of money to play and they were graphical with many hundreds, maybe even a few thousand people actively playing at a given time... but they were of much larger scale than even big muds like batmud (still running... 15 years later... bat.org 23) at the time.
Most people who are serious in the MMO community don't even remember MUCKs MUSHes MOOs and door games.
Shrug.
Shadus
Obviously based on your signature you've never gotten bored of any games and moved onto a new one.
*rolls eyes*
Shadus
For an example of how well we treat Carebears in Eve, check out this cool video made by one of our friendly community members.
Heck, it's almost like someone putting a pie on your doorstep to welcome you.
Brings a tear to my eye *sniff*
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0609/Jihad_2_-_Rens_Assault.wmv
It doesn't make his post worthless, just he's a bit young most likely
Legends of Kesmai (Successor to the MUD (with custom gui) Islands of Kesmai) and NWN (on AOL) came long before M59... but almost no one has heard of them. They cost a lot of money to play and they were graphical with many hundreds, maybe even a few thousand people actively playing at a given time... but they were of much larger scale than even big muds like batmud (still running... 15 years later... bat.org 23) at the time.
Most people who are serious in the MMO community don't even remember MUCKs MUSHes MOOs and door games.
Shrug.
Sorry if I was misinform, but the way people talk on this forum, it sounds like UO was the first reel MMO open PvP.
To Shadus, it is not because I am too young, if you look at my user info I am older than you. I have never played UO, I started to play MMO with EQ.
To Laneo, because I have 1 misinformation I am a worthless poster, it is 1 point out 10 that was wrong. But your post was worthless, it did not bring anything to this topic.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
*yawn* another PvP post "justifying itself".
Some of the funniest things I have read are in this post.
For instance PvE is boring fighting bots, just about every game I can think of has "bots", from space invaders to WoW.
So playing a game like Halo (or WoW or EQ1, 2 etc) is boring unless its PvP, probably in your opinion, in mine not so and in millions upon millions of other gamers would agree with me.
If you dont like PvE fine, go play a game that caters for your needs but please don't blame people cos they won't play with you (or tell your mum might work), how old are you?
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
"Oh look PvPers trying to proove to people their not Gankers, so I'll post a video of some Arsegoblin ganking noobs in a Noob Zone".
Who needs to debate when your side can win it for us.
I'lll tel you why FFA PvP is not in games anymore.
You don't teach a kid to swim by throwing it off the 10m high board into the deep end with no flotation devices.
You don't teach people to like PvP by walking up to them and ganking them, when their still trying to learn the game.
You don't run a succesful game by letting idiots piss off your new costumers and making them quit before they have finished their Free Trial.
You don't makes games with FFA PvP because some twat will always act like a child and ruin it.
People do not want to be forced into anything, that is a fact.
People do not want to do stuff, they feel they are not prepared for.
Why do you think modern Armies train so much, so when the time comes the soldiers feel they have the tools to not die and therefor the self confidence to put their lives on the line.
You give people the time to learn how to play and build their confidence, they will PvP.
You smash them in the face 3 minutes after they enter the game, they will walk away.
I dont understand this conflict between carebears and pkers...
So the carebears prefer pve/fairness/no looting...okay...let them play daoc or w/e
pkers like to grief/cheat/loot etc...okay go play L2
Why do people whine so much? *applies to both sterotypes*
They're just games, so the carebear looses his weapon and boots in L2...k fight some lower lvl mobs till you can afford to replace it...or cancel account and move on to somthing new.
The pker is mad cuz he isnt allowed to kill someone in w/e game at w/e zone. k...go somewhere were you can or play another game...
Im probably a carebear, back when L2 was first out, i was 20+++ and had to deal with bots, and griefers. Lost some stuff didnt want to have to replace it, so i just canceled account and moved on to somthing else
Just seems retarded to me...