I still think mmo success is 350k-500k monthly subscribers just in the US. WoW is a fluke just like the classic rock of the Beatles. There will never be another beatles or a planet rock. There will never be another wow.
Well, guys and girls, we really, really have to use the term "WOW" discussing each and every MMO. Seriously. The success of WOW is based to a big part on the fact Blizzard had much more people working outside of the US, they had big experience in handling masses of people with their battle net and warcraft as a world established over many years. It can not be copied anytime near, and EVERY game company developing a MMO currently OPENLY admits it. So pls stop bringing WOW as example for pro or contra, it's really a quite single phenomenon. Period.
Either way, I think LOTR may be a great success, partially because it has a known background and a vast lore it can build on, but mostly because it is conservative in it's approach. When it comes to games (unline in RL) I believe into conservative game values, and I have a great scepticism against innovation, because there are many proven and valued game mechanics, so trying to invent a "better wheel" is a risky business. LOTR does avoid this, and all "relative" hits, games with many and stable rates of subscribers were very conservative in their approach. All things too fancy are risky at best and may proof a disaster in the game itself, no matter how cool the sound in a preview text.
The only thing that may bring down LOTR is - ironically - the Tolkien lore, or more precise the self proclaimed lore mongers, who will try to cage a gameing community into some iron cage of 1966 fantasy standarts.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by Lateris I still think mmo success is 350k-500k monthly subscribers just in the US. WoW is a fluke just like the classic rock of the Beatles. There will never be another beatles or a planet rock. There will never be another wow.
Actually anything over 50k subscribers is a successful MMORPG. That's the threshold most MMO's must achieve in order to cut enough profit to pay off development costs. Anything over 100,000 subs is a hit and anything over 200,000 subs is a wild success.
WoW is a freak of nature
Personally I think LOTRO will do "ok". It's not going to set any records and it's certainly not going to challenge WoW. But it will probably hit 200-300k subscribers and sit at around that for a good long time. Name recognition alone will help with that as well as the fact that it's not going to be over-instanced like DDO is (thank God) and will provide players with things to do besides just dungeon crawl.
However: If Turbine manages to screw this one up they're done as a company. It's just that simple. They have a VERY vested interest in seeing this title succeed. So they'll be working their rears off to make it happen. They can't afford another AC2. They certainly can't afford for this to be as poorly received as DDO was.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Any MMO that makes a profit, is a "Successful" MMO in my opinion. It might not be as big as WoW was, mainly because Blizzard had Diablo, Starcraft and Warcraft reputation that helped them ALOT more then people think. They also made the game to appeal to casual gamers, new gamers and younger gamers, this made the game appeal to the market of blizzards other games. LOTR Online WILL be successful, it will bring in the money for those who work at Turbine, but it wont be as successful as WoW was.
- Do not hate it, but instead embrace the diversity.
Originally posted by scaramoosh I think it'lll suck:
1. It's Turbine And? I'll give this point this: it's factual. Turbine is making the game. 2. It does nothing new So what other game has Monster Play? And for the record, WoW did nothing new. 3. Has no pvp See the Monster Play mention above. 4. Can't play as Orc And? When has the ability to play an Orc ever been the factor that makes or breaks a game's success? 5. That lotr gif of that WOW piss take Um...ok. But hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it's not backed by facts.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I don't like to focus on the negative, however just in case someone might learn...
1- Raiding enforcement, less than 5% of the players actually involve themselves with raiding in an ongoing way.
2- Lack of enought huge distinctions between characters
3- Soloing won't be developped enough, Boromir just told me that
4- Grouping will be ill-encouraged with the absence of strongly define class and roles
5- Turbines is unable to work with an existing property, not even with AC (ask AC2). They have some cool ideas and cool stuff, but they must start from scratch and even then, they should have someone else developp their design past the launch (and submitting their ideas to these persons).
6- The lack of understanding of any target audience, they are aiming for the overwhelming majority of players by offering them very little and a LOT of stuff from other target audience desires.
I could go on, but it sadden me to even talk about it. I really wish Turbines would do great...and that they would have done better for DDO...I really do wish so...but...it isn't happening.
This property and franchise is very good and very strong, but despite everything Turbines might believe, the D&D franchise was stronger...it seem very unlikely that they achieve better with a weaker franchise that is still quite defined...they have more freedom on the rules, far less on the world. Simply justifying raiding in this world is a massive amount of work and it will fail to convince the players who doesn't want to raid...so...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by scaramoosh I think it'lll suck:
1. It's Turbine so just because of a few flops, a game that they have been developing for 3 years will fail too?
2. It does nothing new WoW does nothing new, they took the same crap from other MMO's and put it into theirs...however LOTRO does have ACTUAL new features, if you bothered to even read a tiny bit about ti on the forums
3. Has no pvp they do have Pvp, just a different form call PvMp where you get to go around as a monster such as goblin, orc, uruk-hai
4. Can't play as Orc you can but only through monster play...think of it this way, hoe fun would it be to play something that is 1. a slave, 2. is very weak compared to the other races, 3. has horrible equipment.
5. That lotr gif of that WOW piss take not exactly sure what you mean by this, but if its' that "this is the same as wow" not only are you wrong on that account but you obviously must be new to MMORPG's to not realize that everything wow did was in other MMO's. If however you mean that because WoW, was soo good *cough* bullshit *cough*, just because a game has 5 million players doesn't men it is the best there ever has been...and looking at the forums alot of you WoW noobs are coming to LOTRO online becuase it's something new and promising.
Do you guys even know how to read? if you do maybe you should go read up on the game and see that everything you say is proved wrong, BTW WoW is a sucky game, 1. it's like a fucking cartoon 2. it has a bunch of immature brats running around everywhere 3. it did nothing new, 4. once you hit lvl 60 its the same thing all the time, and it's not like it's a challenge to cap you level either
I don't think it will flop, but I don't think it will be as good as it could be. From what I've read, and its not much, does not sound prosmising. I want to play a bad guy or the bad faction. I want to play as a wizard. I've heard you can't do this and that doesn't sound good. I don't think this will be the game for me. I won't buy it, but if they do have a free trial, then I'll definitely try.
Edit: I forgot to mention DDO. This could have been an awesome game instead we got a shitty half MMO. The gameplay was horrible and it was a lot like Guild Wars, etc the reverse instancing. There shouldn't have been a monthly fee for DDO. Hopefully LoTR won't be anything like it.
Originally posted by mehhem I don't think it will flop, but I don't think it will be as good as it could be. From what I've read, and its not much, does not sound prosmising. I want to play a bad guy or the bad faction. I want to play as a wizard. I've heard you can't do this and that doesn't sound good. I don't think this will be the game for me. I won't buy it, but if they do have a free trial, then I'll definitely try.
Edit: I forgot to mention DDO. This could have been an awesome game instead we got a shitty half MMO. The gameplay was horrible and it was a lot like Guild Wars, etc the reverse instancing. There shouldn't have been a monthly fee for DDO. Hopefully LoTR won't be anything like it.
The Reaons you can't play a wizard is for lore. There are only 5 wizards in all of Middle Earth. And no, you don't want to be a bad guy...under-equipped, weak, only strength they have is in numbers, and they are slaves. That being said, you are allowed to play evil charcters in the form of Monster Play, just not as a main character.
So the reason you don't want to play this game is because turbine is doing a good job with it and sticking to the lore, unlike SWG with thousands of jedi running around.
well your opion is your opinion and mine is mine:P anyway lol, glad your not like the other guys and just saying it sucks becase turbine made it, with no knowledge futher then that, but i encourage you to read up on it some more, you may find that it sounds like an excellent game and maybe your opinion will change and you will not miss out on something that has great potential to be awesome
I also encourage you even more to read the books, it will give you a better understanding of what Turbine is doing, plus they are excellent books. period:P
I think LotRO will be more successful than WoW. Now I don't mean that it will have more subscribers, I mean it by the fact that Turbine has quite possibly the best franchise ever to base an MMO on, with infinite possibilities, backed by layers and layers of lore.
LotRO is not tailored towards 12 year old kids who just want to 'pwn' other people in PvP. I used to be entirely PvP-Pro, but I have since changed my mind, and I'm extremely excited with Monster Play. Monster Play is a new idea thought up by Turbine that has extreme potential. I believe that not having evil characters & 'real' PvP will keep out all the 1337 teenagers thinking they're something they're not, and actually bring forth a real mature community. Now who wouldn't want that?
Anyone who says this is another mimic of WoW is just merely insulting their own intelligence, and making themselves look bad. WoW is a mimic of all its predecessors. It didnt' bring anything new except brainwash customers into thinking it's casual friendly.
Here's some facts to think about before you decide to continue to play WoW, or someother MMO besides LotRO...
LotRO is based on REAL lore. It's already been made, and Turbine is strict on not conflicting with it if they don't have to. This is the main reason why Orcs are not a playable race. Besides, why would you want to be on the losing side, have less intelligence, less cities, less lore, and poor armor? It doesn't make sense if you bother to think about it for a moment.
LotRO will have PvP. It's monster play. You can play as an orc, or another evil character and gain special rewards, and have fun doing PvP without having to bounce then entire game around it like WoW has done. Why do you think there's so many nerfs in WoW? Well mostly because of PvP inbalances. So even though a small amount of PvP players would be happy, it gimps the PvE community because class abilities kept getting nerfed until they were useless. I think we've all been affected by that.
LotRO is a great franchise, and it has the potential to be the best MMO out there. Will it have the most subscribers? Probably not. Mostly because Turbine isn't trying to make everyone 100% happy. This is mostly tailored towards PvE content. Although there is PvP, it is in no way tailored towards it, therefore the PvP community will probably go elsewhere, taking all the 12 yr old kids with them.
LotRO is bringing new ideas to the table. It is in no way a mimic of another MMO. First off, why would they have to mimic another MMO when they have the best franchise out there? There's no reason to! First off, there's monster play which is a new PvP system. Then there's a more casual side of raiding only involving 25 raiders instead of the boring 40 man raids that WoW sponsors. But even Blizzard realized their mistake, and in the upcoming expansion, they're going to be doing 20-25 man raids now - no more 40 man. Why? Because it was a mistake. Turbine already has it right the first time. LotRO will also be featuring a much more meaningful crafting system. The items you can craft will actually mean something, and the weapons will not be worthless because of raiding items that you can get so much easier. In fact, Turbine is taking a very strong stance on raiding, and they are ensuring that there is plenty of more ways to get great gear besides raiding. This game has the hope to truly promote casual players' concerns, as well as hard-core.
What does all this mean? A great MMO! In my opinion, you can't judge a game by how many copies it sells, or how big it's subscriber base it. As long as you're satisfied, what do you care? I DO feel that it's important that you understand what LotRO truly is, and not what some people stereotype it as such as "...another wow clone".
Do I think this will be flop fest? Absolutely not. Turbine has way too many resources invested into this game for it to flop. The game has a very large, and loyal customer base with some that have been around for over 3 years during its development, myself included. There has also been Appx. 200,000 people that have signed up just for beta! If that doesn't show hope for a successful MMO, then I don't know what does!
im looking forward to this game the only problem i see is that its a franchise and when games are made for franchises they usually fail because of how high the hype is. alot of ppl want these games to be just like the books/movies along with following the lore to the T and you cant. i mean there cant be an end ot a mmo if there is it should be made as a standalone not a mmo... But im gonna subsribe to this one if they pull it off i see it doing very well
People have a valid reason to say it will flop. Turbine has had a very very VERY bad track record with MMO's. Even AC wasn't one of the best, it was successful thats about it. UO, EQ, and DAOC had more subs then AC. Lately they have been putting out total garbage.
Originally posted by iduums People have a valid reason to say it will flop. Turbine has had a very very VERY bad track record with MMO's. Even AC wasn't one of the best, it was successful thats about it. UO, EQ, and DAOC had more subs then AC. Lately they have been putting out total garbage.
I can see why you might say that. I mean, looking at subscriptions is the easy way to form an opinion. Having played every game you mention for an extended period of time (all from their launch but EQ) I had the most fun in AC. Nothing beats monthly content updates (and not small updates, big updates) that progress the world's ongoing storyline, and a storyline that the players actually had influence on and could vary from server to server.
If you want to talk about garbage, see $OE. Origin doesn't make MMO games anymore (and Garriott has left them anyway though his current projects aren't so hot). Mythic. Hey, I love them, right behind Turbine. But the whole EA factor is scaring me. I want W:AR to make it to launch (I worked for Games Workshop for a year and all we talked about was Warhammer online when the previous company was developing it) as I still play the table-top version. I just think EA will turn into $OE or what Microsoft was to Turbine with AC2.
Of the big name companies out there making MMOs that have any integrity left, Turbine and Mythic are about it, in my opinion.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
For those who want to be part of an evil faction, I have to let you know, the horde faction in WoW is not evil. It's just a faction against another faction.
The middle earth races had evil individuals, and maybe the game will allow players to make evil choices to hinder the war efforts against Sauron. Any race should be able to choose to be evil.
To the guy who said AC isn't great, I have to say that I think AC is the best mmorpg ever made. I can't find a game that lives up to it, so I still play it.
Originally posted by Solon22 the fact that Turbine has quite possibly the best franchise ever to base an MMO on, with infinite possibilities, backed by layers and layers of lore.
SWG also had virtually the best franchise...
Originally posted by Solon22
LotRO is not tailored towards 12 year old kids who just want to 'pwn' other people in PvP.
That's what we all hope, but it remains to be seen.
Comments
I still think mmo success is 350k-500k monthly subscribers just in the US. WoW is a fluke just like the classic rock of the Beatles. There will never be another beatles or a planet rock. There will never be another wow.
Well, guys and girls, we really, really have to use the term "WOW" discussing each and every MMO. Seriously. The success of WOW is based to a big part on the fact Blizzard had much more people working outside of the US, they had big experience in handling masses of people with their battle net and warcraft as a world established over many years. It can not be copied anytime near, and EVERY game company developing a MMO currently OPENLY admits it. So pls stop bringing WOW as example for pro or contra, it's really a quite single phenomenon. Period.
Either way, I think LOTR may be a great success, partially because it has a known background and a vast lore it can build on, but mostly because it is conservative in it's approach. When it comes to games (unline in RL) I believe into conservative game values, and I have a great scepticism against innovation, because there are many proven and valued game mechanics, so trying to invent a "better wheel" is a risky business. LOTR does avoid this, and all "relative" hits, games with many and stable rates of subscribers were very conservative in their approach. All things too fancy are risky at best and may proof a disaster in the game itself, no matter how cool the sound in a preview text.
The only thing that may bring down LOTR is - ironically - the Tolkien lore, or more precise the self proclaimed lore mongers, who will try to cage a gameing community into some iron cage of 1966 fantasy standarts.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
WoW is a freak of nature
Personally I think LOTRO will do "ok". It's not going to set any records and it's certainly not going to challenge WoW. But it will probably hit 200-300k subscribers and sit at around that for a good long time. Name recognition alone will help with that as well as the fact that it's not going to be over-instanced like DDO is (thank God) and will provide players with things to do besides just dungeon crawl.
However: If Turbine manages to screw this one up they're done as a company. It's just that simple. They have a VERY vested interest in seeing this title succeed. So they'll be working their rears off to make it happen. They can't afford another AC2. They certainly can't afford for this to be as poorly received as DDO was.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Any MMO that makes a profit, is a "Successful" MMO in my opinion. It might not be as big as WoW was, mainly because Blizzard had Diablo, Starcraft and Warcraft reputation that helped them ALOT more then people think. They also made the game to appeal to casual gamers, new gamers and younger gamers, this made the game appeal to the market of blizzards other games. LOTR Online WILL be successful, it will bring in the money for those who work at Turbine, but it wont be as successful as WoW was.
-
Do not hate it, but instead embrace the diversity.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I don't like to focus on the negative, however just in case someone might learn...
1- Raiding enforcement, less than 5% of the players actually involve themselves with raiding in an ongoing way.
2- Lack of enought huge distinctions between characters
3- Soloing won't be developped enough, Boromir just told me that
4- Grouping will be ill-encouraged with the absence of strongly define class and roles
5- Turbines is unable to work with an existing property, not even with AC (ask AC2). They have some cool ideas and cool stuff, but they must start from scratch and even then, they should have someone else developp their design past the launch (and submitting their ideas to these persons).
6- The lack of understanding of any target audience, they are aiming for the overwhelming majority of players by offering them very little and a LOT of stuff from other target audience desires.
I could go on, but it sadden me to even talk about it. I really wish Turbines would do great...and that they would have done better for DDO...I really do wish so...but...it isn't happening.
This property and franchise is very good and very strong, but despite everything Turbines might believe, the D&D franchise was stronger...it seem very unlikely that they achieve better with a weaker franchise that is still quite defined...they have more freedom on the rules, far less on the world. Simply justifying raiding in this world is a massive amount of work and it will fail to convince the players who doesn't want to raid...so...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Good on 'em.
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I don't think it will flop, but I don't think it will be as good as it could be. From what I've read, and its not much, does not sound prosmising. I want to play a bad guy or the bad faction. I want to play as a wizard. I've heard you can't do this and that doesn't sound good. I don't think this will be the game for me. I won't buy it, but if they do have a free trial, then I'll definitely try.
Edit: I forgot to mention DDO. This could have been an awesome game instead we got a shitty half MMO. The gameplay was horrible and it was a lot like Guild Wars, etc the reverse instancing. There shouldn't have been a monthly fee for DDO. Hopefully LoTR won't be anything like it.
So the reason you don't want to play this game is because turbine is doing a good job with it and sticking to the lore, unlike SWG with thousands of jedi running around.
well your opion is your opinion and mine is mine:P anyway lol, glad your not like the other guys and just saying it sucks becase turbine made it, with no knowledge futher then that, but i encourage you to read up on it some more, you may find that it sounds like an excellent game and maybe your opinion will change and you will not miss out on something that has great potential to be awesome
I also encourage you even more to read the books, it will give you a better understanding of what Turbine is doing, plus they are excellent books. period:P
It won't be a huge smashing raging hit like WoW was
But it won't flop.
And it'll outlive WoW.
Thanks.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
I think LotRO will be more successful than WoW. Now I don't mean that it will have more subscribers, I mean it by the fact that Turbine has quite possibly the best franchise ever to base an MMO on, with infinite possibilities, backed by layers and layers of lore.
LotRO is not tailored towards 12 year old kids who just want to 'pwn' other people in PvP. I used to be entirely PvP-Pro, but I have since changed my mind, and I'm extremely excited with Monster Play. Monster Play is a new idea thought up by Turbine that has extreme potential. I believe that not having evil characters & 'real' PvP will keep out all the 1337 teenagers thinking they're something they're not, and actually bring forth a real mature community. Now who wouldn't want that?
Anyone who says this is another mimic of WoW is just merely insulting their own intelligence, and making themselves look bad. WoW is a mimic of all its predecessors. It didnt' bring anything new except brainwash customers into thinking it's casual friendly.
Here's some facts to think about before you decide to continue to play WoW, or someother MMO besides LotRO...
What does all this mean? A great MMO! In my opinion, you can't judge a game by how many copies it sells, or how big it's subscriber base it. As long as you're satisfied, what do you care? I DO feel that it's important that you understand what LotRO truly is, and not what some people stereotype it as such as "...another wow clone".
Do I think this will be flop fest? Absolutely not. Turbine has way too many resources invested into this game for it to flop. The game has a very large, and loyal customer base with some that have been around for over 3 years during its development, myself included. There has also been Appx. 200,000 people that have signed up just for beta! If that doesn't show hope for a successful MMO, then I don't know what does!
well alot of people expect it to flop because almost every game that comes out sucks, its just playing the odds.
although i dont think this one will honestly.
I can see why you might say that. I mean, looking at subscriptions is the easy way to form an opinion. Having played every game you mention for an extended period of time (all from their launch but EQ) I had the most fun in AC. Nothing beats monthly content updates (and not small updates, big updates) that progress the world's ongoing storyline, and a storyline that the players actually had influence on and could vary from server to server.
If you want to talk about garbage, see $OE. Origin doesn't make MMO games anymore (and Garriott has left them anyway though his current projects aren't so hot). Mythic. Hey, I love them, right behind Turbine. But the whole EA factor is scaring me. I want W:AR to make it to launch (I worked for Games Workshop for a year and all we talked about was Warhammer online when the previous company was developing it) as I still play the table-top version. I just think EA will turn into $OE or what Microsoft was to Turbine with AC2.
Of the big name companies out there making MMOs that have any integrity left, Turbine and Mythic are about it, in my opinion.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
For those who want to be part of an evil faction, I have to let you know, the horde faction in WoW is not evil. It's just a faction against another faction.
The middle earth races had evil individuals, and maybe the game will allow players to make evil choices to hinder the war efforts against Sauron. Any race should be able to choose to be evil.
To the guy who said AC isn't great, I have to say that I think AC is the best mmorpg ever made. I can't find a game that lives up to it, so I still play it.
LotRO is not tailored towards 12 year old kids who just want to 'pwn' other people in PvP.
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