They were left out because the gnostic gospels are a branching off from the earliest teachings of christianity. Nothing more. It's why the gospels and letters were brought together into one book, after all. Gnosticism didn't start with christianity. It predates christianity. It would later "borrow" christianity and attempt to meld the two into a new sect of gnostic christianity. Some gnostics borrowed nothing from christianity. Some borrow few trivial things (baptism, but not Jesus, for example) and some were very much influened by Christianity. Basically from 0 influence to heavily influeced, by christianity. It's akin to Catholics (or other christian faiths) not inserting Voodoo, that incorporates catholicism, into scripture. One was derived from the other. They're not the same.
Originally posted by tetsul Originally posted by Xexima What does them being discovered in 1896 have to do with it? The dead sea scrolls were found in 1947-56, does that mean they are fake too?
The dead sea scrolls which were discovered around an ancient Jewish settlement hidden in caves. This previously unknown and unreferrenced book was discovered by a guy rummaging around in a grave nowhere near the areas it referenced.
The thought isn't 'was it planted by the guy?' or 'maybe the guy in the grave wrote it as an outcast or his own ideas' or maybe 'someone put it there later for some reason' or 'it could be a work of fiction'. No, that sort of thinking is pure crazy talk. The only reasonable explanation is a massive religious conspiracy to seize control involving a massive coverup of what most religious people would consider a great gift that gives more into the life of their savior.
It's that sort of jump to insanity conclusions that give you these missle shooting 747s theories that people seem to eat up. Why is the most reasonable explainations so lost?
No conspiracy, we know exactly what happened.
When Constantine of Rome legalized Christianity and made it the very first official religion of the Empire, he appointed a council. They were instructed to take the fragmented texts harbored by various christian cults who were in hiding (Christianity up to this point was Illegal throughout the empire), select the portions that would most solidify the power and authority of the new religious body, and destroy the rejected books. This is historical fact.
What is not historical fact is the common and highly supported belief that the council rejected certain of the books because they did not fit in with their own personal ideals, and would interfere with the absolute power of the church.
As to the text, I can tell you it was not a modern fake, tests proved that time and time again. Whether or not it was legitimate back then when it was written or not is more difficult to tell.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Originally posted by lardmouth Yes, they're not fakes. They are a hybrid of gnosticism and christianity.
That sounds like 'maybe the guy in the grave wrote it as an outcast or his own ideas'. Yes I know there were various forms before Constantine. That can't be right. Where's the conspiracy? The intrigue? The cloak and dagger actions? Every new religious discovery has to be a revolutionary insight that throws traditional beliefs out the window and questions the legitimacy of current organized religion as a whole. It's in the rulebook.
Originally posted by tetsul That sounds like 'maybe the guy in the grave wrote it as an outcast or his own ideas'. Yes I know there were various forms before Constantine. That can't be right. Where's the conspiracy? The intrigue? The cloak and dagger actions? Every new religious discovery has to be a revolutionary insight that throws traditional beliefs out the window and questions the legitimacy of current organized religion as a whole. It's in the rulebook.
Basically, yeah. The reason for not including the Gospel of Mary is simple. It was a latter attempt to blend gnosticism (a seperate subject) with early christianity. Why would they include a hybrid?
When Constantine of Rome legalized Christianity and made it the very first official religion of the Empire, he appointed a council. They were instructed to take the fragmented texts harbored by various christian cults who were in hiding (Christianity up to this point was Illegal throughout the empire), select the portions that would most solidify the power and authority of the new religious body, and destroy the rejected books. This is historical fact.
What is not historical fact is the common and highly supported belief that the council rejected certain of the books because they did not fit in with their own personal ideals, and would interfere with the absolute power of the church.
I'd love to see your proof that Constantines orders were specifically to 'select the portions that would most solidify power and authority' . Until you show us that's exactly what they were ordered to do, it's not historical fact. It's just your interpretation.
"What is not historical fact is the common and highly supported belief that the council rejected certain of the books because they did not fit in with their own personal ideals, and would interfere with the absolute power of the church."
Again that's your interpretation. I find it highly more likely that they would have rejected books because they were in fact FALSE.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
people are way too touchy about religion. me i believe in a god but dont go to church i dont believe in church. i pray where ever i am at the time. god male/female can hear all. i also have a strong belief in myself. i dont need a support group which church is in my eyes.
i find most church goers to be very hypacritical(sp?).
i my self dont drink. dont do drugs. smoke cigs. and drink caffine. I dont in anyway put down or make anyone feel bad for doing drugs or drinking its there thing. i will speek my beliefs but never expect anyone to believe what i believe. i dislike sometimes downright loath people that think they can try and make me see what there religion does for people. i have read enough to come to my own conclusion. i maybe wrong i maybe right but thats my choice.
see the thing alot of people say is that god gave us free will. but damnit if they dont believe there own words and try and tell me im wrong. free will is a bitch cause no one can say the exact same thing even from there own religion. cause everyone sees it differantly.
so please dont bash me for having my own beliefs and expressing them.
i will say it one more time free wills a bitch that not one person can control and it freaks some people out.
I'd love to see your proof that Constantines orders were specifically to 'select the portions that would most solidify power and authority' . Until you show us that's exactly what they were ordered to do, it's not historical fact. It's just your interpretation. Again that's your interpretation. I find it highly more likely that they would have rejected books because they were in fact FALSE.
It is historical fact, they found the original orders written by Constantine himself
Pay attention Blurr, none of the people who made the decisions concerning this were Christian, prior to this movement, they all had worshipped one or another of the mixmatched pagan Roman gods. Their goal was to solidify their governments power through use of a single religious body, they had no reason whatsoever to care if it was false or not.
Originally posted by OneMuslim Originally posted by reavo Will the real story of Jesus please stand up?
Well...
There you go. Islam isn't nearly as screwed up in terms of its past, but I don't think that really answers the problem
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
It is historical fact, they found the original orders written by Constantine himself
Pay attention Blurr, none of the people who made the decisions concerning this were Christian, prior to this movement, they all had worshipped one or another of the mixmatched pagan Roman gods. Their goal was to solidify their governments power through use of a single religious body, they had no reason whatsoever to care if it was false or not.
Absolutely and completely false. Please don't say something is historical fact, when it's not even close.
Originally posted by lardmouth Originally posted by Aelfinn
It is historical fact, they found the original orders written by Constantine himself
Pay attention Blurr, none of the people who made the decisions concerning this were Christian, prior to this movement, they all had worshipped one or another of the mixmatched pagan Roman gods. Their goal was to solidify their governments power through use of a single religious body, they had no reason whatsoever to care if it was false or not.
Absolutely and completely false. Please don't say something is historical fact, when it's not even close.
Actually he's right, the Romans and Greeks used christianity as a method to control people, but people didn't like the idea of one God, so they made two, God and his son, and they didn't like the idea either so they made the mother of God.
The romans and greeks changed so many things, added so many things that never existed in christianity, changed the name of the days to their days of worship.
Saturn day, Sun day, Moon day, Zues day, Woodn's day or something, Thor's day, and friday i'm not sure.
oh and btw, just a little bit of information, they changed the main day or worship from Sabath, to Sunday.
Sabath means what? it means seventh, the seventh day of the week, which is Saturday, but the roman or greek king at that time was a sun worshipper, so they changed it to sun day.
Keep the Sabath Holy is what the bible says, keep the seventh day of the week holy, as in day of worship, but look at what the christians are doing right now? totally not following their own book.
Once again, wrong. The First Council of Nicaea was attended by 250-320 BISHOPS of the christian faith. These were christian bishops before the council was ever thought up. Please try to research more.
Actually he's right, the Romans and Greeks used christianity as a method to control people, but people didn't like the idea of one God, so they made two, God and his son, and they didn't like the idea either so they made the mother of God. Um, before the Romans ever excepted Christianity as a legal practice, christians were being martyered for even attempting to practice their young religion. Jesus as god was believed long before the Nicaen Council was even thought of. About 3 centuries. The romans and greeks changed so many things, added so many things that never existed in christianity, changed the name of the days to their days of worship. Saturn day, Sun day, Moon day, Zues day, Woodn's day or something, Thor's day, and friday i'm not sure. Um, and? The names of days doen't have spiritual significance to us. It's like using the roman or greek word for "boot." A christian can call the days of the week whatever he likes. oh and btw, just a little bit of information, they changed the main day or worship from Sabath, to Sunday. Sabath has been fulfilled, we pratice the Lord's day. We are not Jews. We honor a new covenant on the Lord's Day. Sabath means what? it means seventh, the seventh day of the week, which is Saturday, but the roman or greek king at that time was a sun worshipper, so they changed it to sun day. And sunday is the the what? First day of the week. And when do we know when Christ rose from the dead? On the first day of the week. We now honor the resurrection on the first day of the week, every week. Keep the Sabath Holy is what the bible says, keep the seventh day of the week holy, as in day of worship, but look at what the christians are doing right now? totally not following their own book. Perhaps learn something abouts christianty before you implore me to follow my own book. And not just what they tell you in the mosque.
Originally posted by lardmouth Originally posted by OneMuslim
Actually he's right, the Romans and Greeks used christianity as a method to control people, but people didn't like the idea of one God, so they made two, God and his son, and they didn't like the idea either so they made the mother of God. Um, before the Romans ever excepted Christianity as a legal practice, christians were being martyered for even attempting to practice their young religion. Jesus as god was believed long before the Nicaen Council was even thought of. About 3 centuries. I'm sorry but real christians didn't believe Jesus as a God, go back to the original texts in Aramaic if you even have them and see for yourself. The romans and greeks changed so many things, added so many things that never existed in christianity, changed the name of the days to their days of worship. Saturn day, Sun day, Moon day, Zues day, Woodn's day or something, Thor's day, and friday i'm not sure. Um, and? The names of days doen't have spiritual significance to us. It's like using the roman or greek word for "boot." A christian can call the days of the week whatever he likes. The names of the days in the calender and the months' names were changed, nuff said. oh and btw, just a little bit of information, they changed the main day or worship from Sabath, to Sunday. Sabath has been fulfilled, we pratice the Lord's day. We are not Jews. We honor a new covenant on the Lord's Day. "I have not come to change the law" Sabath means what? it means seventh, the seventh day of the week, which is Saturday, but the roman or greek king at that time was a sun worshipper, so they changed it to sun day. And sunday is the the what? First day of the week. And when do we know when Christ rose from the dead? On the first day of the week. We now honor the resurrection on the first day of the week, every week. Christ rose from what? he didn't die in the first place man, what are you talkin about :} Keep the Sabath Holy is what the bible says, keep the seventh day of the week holy, as in day of worship, but look at what the christians are doing right now? totally not following their own book. Perhaps learn something abouts christianty before you implore me to follow my own book. And not just what they tell you in the mosque. Oh, i didn't learn from the mosques, i learned from various places and from christians themselves about their own faith, i talked to alot of people about different faiths, and christianity was the main one of them, and i can easily tell you, most of the christians don't even know what the Sabath means, and most of the christians know how messed up their religion is, compared to the old christianity, but they're still calling themselves christians, it amazes me to see someone who knows that truth, but doesn't follow it.
Originally posted by OneMuslim I'm sorry but real christians didn't believe Jesus as a God, go back to the original texts in Aramaic if you even have them and see for yourself. Wrong! The Antiochs (non-jewish) coined the term "Christians" in the 40's AD. In order to distinguish between the Messianic Jews and the other Jewish sects. There was a sect of Jews that believed Jesus was Christ, Messiah, Son of God, decades before they were even called "Christians." The names of the days in the calender and the months' names were changed, nuff said. ...again, so what? Christians don't hold spiritural significance to the NAMES of the days of the week. Or, the month. You can call monday "Day of the Mighty Ninja Pirate." Naming of the days of the week is NOT part of our religion. We could care less. I'm not sure why you can't grasp that. "I have not come to change the law" Yay for incomplete quotes! "I have not come to change the law, I have come to fullfil it." That's right, he fullfilled the OLD covenant, the old laws. Jesus in the rest of the new testament sets forth the new covenant and the beginnings of the new Church. Christ rose from what? he didn't die in the first place man, what are you talkin about :} Sorry bro, that's YOUR faith, borrowed from Messianic Jews that were around long before Islam. And they believed the Christ was crucified and risen. Oh, i didn't learn from the mosques, i learned from various places and from christians themselves about their own faith, i talked to alot of people about different faiths, and christianity was the main one of them, and i can easily tell you, most of the christians don't even know what the Sabath means, and most of the christians know how messed up their religion is, compared to the old christianity, but they're still calling themselves christians, it amazes me to see someone who knows that truth, but doesn't follow it. You're trying to tell me you learned from christians who didn't even know what the Sabath was? Sorry, even though we don't uphold the old Sabath, they'd have to know what is was if they even spent a modicum of time studying their faith. Perhaps you're listening to the wrong people. And before you talk about messed up religions....Perhaps you could talk to some of your folks about burning and killing over Dutch cartoons and what the Pope says. Hate to get like that. But one shouldn't toss stones from a glass house.
Originally posted by lardmouth Originally posted by OneMuslim
Wrong! The Antiochs (non-jewish) coined the term "Christians" in the 40's AD. In order to distinguish between the Messianic Jews and the other Jewish sects. There was a sect of Jews that believed Jesus was Christ, Messiah, Son of God, decades before they were even called "Christians." How do you know that when most of your faith has been changed? ...again, so what? Christians don't hold spiritural significance to the NAMES of the days of the week. Or, the month. You can call monday "Day of the Mighty Ninja Pirate." Naming of the days of the week is NOT part of our religion. We could care less. I'm not sure why you can't grasp that. ok let's drop this one, it's kinda useless. Yay for incomplete quotes! "I have not come to change the law, I have come to fullfil it." That's right, he fullfilled the OLD covenant, the old laws. Jesus in the rest of the new testament sets forth the new covenant and the beginnings of the new Church. He fullfilled, as you said, the most important part is the HE SAID, kee pthe sabath holy, i guess you are not following, he didn't change the day of worship. Sorry bro, that's YOUR faith, borrowed from Messianic Jews that were around long before Islam. And they believed the Christ was crucified and risen. too bad for them, because there are proofs that Jesus didn't die or was crucified. You're trying to tell me you learned from christians who didn't even know what the Sabath was? Sorry, even though we don't uphold the old Sabath, they'd have to know what is was if they even spent a modicum of time studying their faith. Perhaps you're listening to the wrong people. And before you talk about messed up religions....Perhaps you could talk to some of your folks about burning and killing over Dutch cartoons and what the Pope says. Hate to get like that. But one shouldn't toss stones from a glass house. These christians that you're talking about know alot more than you do, believe me, and not all of them didn't know what the sabath was, and i bet you didn't either :} and about muslims burning and killing for cartoons, no one said it was right, it was wrong, and if it was me i'd punish them. as of your lovely pope, he is a trouble stirrer, seriously, the previous pope saught peace, the current one seeks to destroy it, you might as well overthrow him and replace him with a better one, WHO THE HELL IS HE? telling the people that Islam is evil EH?
Originally posted by OneMuslim as of your lovely pope, he is a trouble stirrer, seriously, the previous pope saught peace, the current one seeks to destroy it, you might as well overthrow him and replace him with a better one, WHO THE HELL IS HE? telling the people that Islam is evil EH?
I should just point out that the Pope is head of the Catholic Church. He does not represent the entire Christian faith.
There are several denominations of Christianity, and, grouping them all would be the same as grouping Sunnis and Shiites together.
How do you know that when most of your faith has been changed? Um, because the existence of the Messianic Jews (the christians jews) are a documented part of history He fullfilled, as you said, the most important part is the HE SAID, kee pthe sabath holy, i guess you are not following, he didn't change the day of worship. Actually, he berated the Jewish religious leaders, for reprimanding him and the apostles, because they didnt abide by the laws of the Sabbath. too bad for them, because there are proofs that Jesus didn't die or was crucified. Yeah, so Muhammad borrows Jesus from the Christians and discards the testimony of those that actually followed Jesus. Talk about pick and choose. These christians that you're talking about know alot more than you do, believe me, and not all of them didn't know what the sabath was, and i bet you didn't either :} Are you kidding me? There's no way in heck they know more than me if they don't even know what the Sabbath is. It's like 1st year christian learning for goodness sake. Heck, many non-religious people know what the Sabbath is. So, for you tell me that you spoke to these suppossed learned Christians...who didn't know what the Sabbath is...sorry, I don't buy it. and about muslims burning and killing for cartoons, no one said it was right, it was wrong, and if it was me i'd punish them. as of your lovely pope, he is a trouble stirrer, seriously, the previous pope saught peace, the current one seeks to destroy it, you might as well overthrow him and replace him with a better one, WHO THE HELL IS HE? telling the people that Islam is evil EH? Way to regurgitate what your mosque told you. Have you even read the speech? It was a denunciation of religious violence and hatred. It was a quote of someone else, in a full speech. By the way, interesting view you have there. The Pope destroys peace with just words? Just words? It's that kind of thinking that get's Cartoon artists killed, embassies burned, authors assassinated, etc. Those things are the destroyers of peace. Not mere words. Especially words from a speech that asked for peace. A speech in which you will not find him calling Islam evil, as you just claimed.
Originally posted by Norked Originally posted by OneMuslim as of your lovely pope, he is a trouble stirrer, seriously, the previous pope saught peace, the current one seeks to destroy it, you might as well overthrow him and replace him with a better one, WHO THE HELL IS HE? telling the people that Islam is evil EH?
I should just point out that the Pope is head of the Catholic Church. He does not represent the entire Christian faith.
There are several denominations of Christianity, and, grouping them all would be the same as grouping Sunnis and Shiites together.
Comments
They were left out because the gnostic gospels are a branching off from the earliest teachings of christianity. Nothing more. It's why the gospels and letters were brought together into one book, after all. Gnosticism didn't start with christianity. It predates christianity. It would later "borrow" christianity and attempt to meld the two into a new sect of gnostic christianity. Some gnostics borrowed nothing from christianity. Some borrow few trivial things (baptism, but not Jesus, for example) and some were very much influened by Christianity. Basically from 0 influence to heavily influeced, by christianity. It's akin to Catholics (or other christian faiths) not inserting Voodoo, that incorporates catholicism, into scripture. One was derived from the other. They're not the same.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic
The dead sea scrolls which were discovered around an ancient Jewish settlement hidden in caves. This previously unknown and unreferrenced book was discovered by a guy rummaging around in a grave nowhere near the areas it referenced.
The thought isn't 'was it planted by the guy?' or 'maybe the guy in the grave wrote it as an outcast or his own ideas' or maybe 'someone put it there later for some reason' or 'it could be a work of fiction'. No, that sort of thinking is pure crazy talk. The only reasonable explanation is a massive religious conspiracy to seize control involving a massive coverup of what most religious people would consider a great gift that gives more into the life of their savior.
It's that sort of jump to insanity conclusions that give you these missle shooting 747s theories that people seem to eat up. Why is the most reasonable explainations so lost?
No conspiracy, we know exactly what happened.
When Constantine of Rome legalized Christianity and made it the very first official religion of the Empire, he appointed a council. They were instructed to take the fragmented texts harbored by various christian cults who were in hiding (Christianity up to this point was Illegal throughout the empire), select the portions that would most solidify the power and authority of the new religious body, and destroy the rejected books. This is historical fact.
What is not historical fact is the common and highly supported belief that the council rejected certain of the books because they did not fit in with their own personal ideals, and would interfere with the absolute power of the church.
As to the text, I can tell you it was not a modern fake, tests proved that time and time again. Whether or not it was legitimate back then when it was written or not is more difficult to tell.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Well...
Basically, yeah. The reason for not including the Gospel of Mary is simple. It was a latter attempt to blend gnosticism (a seperate subject) with early christianity. Why would they include a hybrid?
Would Jesus leave the gospels of Mary Magdalene out of his story?
When Constantine of Rome legalized Christianity and made it the very first official religion of the Empire, he appointed a council. They were instructed to take the fragmented texts harbored by various christian cults who were in hiding (Christianity up to this point was Illegal throughout the empire), select the portions that would most solidify the power and authority of the new religious body, and destroy the rejected books. This is historical fact.
What is not historical fact is the common and highly supported belief that the council rejected certain of the books because they did not fit in with their own personal ideals, and would interfere with the absolute power of the church.
I'd love to see your proof that Constantines orders were specifically to 'select the portions that would most solidify power and authority' . Until you show us that's exactly what they were ordered to do, it's not historical fact. It's just your interpretation.
"What is not historical fact is the common and highly supported belief that the council rejected certain of the books because they did not fit in with their own personal ideals, and would interfere with the absolute power of the church."
Again that's your interpretation. I find it highly more likely that they would have rejected books because they were in fact FALSE.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
people are way too touchy about religion. me i believe in a god but dont go to church i dont believe in church. i pray where ever i am at the time. god male/female can hear all. i also have a strong belief in myself. i dont need a support group which church is in my eyes.
i find most church goers to be very hypacritical(sp?).
i my self dont drink. dont do drugs. smoke cigs. and drink caffine. I dont in anyway put down or make anyone feel bad for doing drugs or drinking its there thing. i will speek my beliefs but never expect anyone to believe what i believe. i dislike sometimes downright loath people that think they can try and make me see what there religion does for people. i have read enough to come to my own conclusion. i maybe wrong i maybe right but thats my choice.
see the thing alot of people say is that god gave us free will. but damnit if they dont believe there own words and try and tell me im wrong. free will is a bitch cause no one can say the exact same thing even from there own religion. cause everyone sees it differantly.
so please dont bash me for having my own beliefs and expressing them.
i will say it one more time free wills a bitch that not one person can control and it freaks some people out.
It is historical fact, they found the original orders written by Constantine himself
Pay attention Blurr, none of the people who made the decisions concerning this were Christian, prior to this movement, they all had worshipped one or another of the mixmatched pagan Roman gods. Their goal was to solidify their governments power through use of a single religious body, they had no reason whatsoever to care if it was false or not.
There you go.Islam isn't nearly as screwed up in terms of its past, but I don't think that really answers the problem
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
It is historical fact, they found the original orders written by Constantine himself
Pay attention Blurr, none of the people who made the decisions concerning this were Christian, prior to this movement, they all had worshipped one or another of the mixmatched pagan Roman gods. Their goal was to solidify their governments power through use of a single religious body, they had no reason whatsoever to care if it was false or not.
Absolutely and completely false. Please don't say something is historical fact, when it's not even close.
It is historical fact, they found the original orders written by Constantine himself
Pay attention Blurr, none of the people who made the decisions concerning this were Christian, prior to this movement, they all had worshipped one or another of the mixmatched pagan Roman gods. Their goal was to solidify their governments power through use of a single religious body, they had no reason whatsoever to care if it was false or not.
Absolutely and completely false. Please don't say something is historical fact, when it's not even close.
Actually he's right, the Romans and Greeks used christianity as a method to control people, but people didn't like the idea of one God, so they made two, God and his son, and they didn't like the idea either so they made the mother of God.
The romans and greeks changed so many things, added so many things that never existed in christianity, changed the name of the days to their days of worship.
Saturn day, Sun day, Moon day, Zues day, Woodn's day or something, Thor's day, and friday i'm not sure.
oh and btw, just a little bit of information, they changed the main day or worship from Sabath, to Sunday.
Sabath means what? it means seventh, the seventh day of the week, which is Saturday, but the roman or greek king at that time was a sun worshipper, so they changed it to sun day.
Keep the Sabath Holy is what the bible says, keep the seventh day of the week holy, as in day of worship, but look at what the christians are doing right now? totally not following their own book.
Once again, wrong. The First Council of Nicaea was attended by 250-320 BISHOPS of the christian faith. These were christian bishops before the council was ever thought up. Please try to research more.
I should just point out that the Pope is head of the Catholic Church. He does not represent the entire Christian faith.
There are several denominations of Christianity, and, grouping them all would be the same as grouping Sunnis and Shiites together.
I should just point out that the Pope is head of the Catholic Church. He does not represent the entire Christian faith.
There are several denominations of Christianity, and, grouping them all would be the same as grouping Sunnis and Shiites together.
I know that, but alot of people DON'T.