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Is PVP with no risk like Poker with no money ?
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I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Same way, pvp with looting can only work if the bets wont make you lose months of grinding, lost items should be replacable in a relatively short time through grind or better yet crafting/trade.
XP loss is a bad idea because it forces you to grind mobs to regain the lost xp (i hate pve, because AI always sucks), with item loss you have the option of crafting them yourself or buyin from someone.
looting>all.
A looting switch doesnt work. The reason is people always choose the safe way. Just shows that most these people are all talk. When given the option they choose no looting. UO has item insurance and full looting. Everyone chooses item insurance (no looting). No matter what they try to say about running around with high risk makes them love the game, you can loot a million corpses in that game and never are you going to find an artifact unless someone forgot to put item insurance on or ran out of money in the bank. People say one thing then practice another.
What they really mean to say is, they want a game where they can gank a bunch of newbs and take all there stuff. They want HIGH REWARDS with NO RISK. They dont want risk, they just like to pretend they do. If they really wanted risk, they would run around without armor or item insurance with an awesome artifact. Im sure they would get alot of attention, that would really get thier heart pumping. You wont ever see them do it thou.
And your suggestion is one that so many people have brought up, yet here we are and so few games seem to be willing to utilize it. The hardcore PVP'ers want that high-risk experience so why not give it to them on their own server? All the while you're giving the so-called carebears what they want by having other servers with much stricter PVP rules and less risk involved. Not to mention that if you give choices (people love choices) you'll avoid a lot of the war of words that goes on because everybody is getting what they want.
And i just won't believe you people saying that you get the same rush with or without losses. Sure it's still the honor, but the honor and your items gotta sting a bit more right?
I however don't think full loot is the only solution, there is probably many ideas that would work perfectly fine... The important thing is that you gotta feel it when you die, not like in WoW when you just *sigh* and runs back to your corpse.
In Poker it's all vs all. Everyone ante's up the same. Seems noone else has caught this. I don't know of any poker game where you get your hand, and then the rest of your buddies all combine for a hand.
In an open pvp game it isnt. It's usually 5 guys ganking one. What risk is there for the 5? The solo dude ante'd up everything.
Who would play poker if you got your hand then 5 other guys combined cards to make the best hand they could?
Most people don't care about losing something if its a fair fight. But games as you suggest are just gank fests, in which one side risks NOTHING.
Figure out a way to stop gankfests, so it's actuallly fair both ways, both people are risking the same, or it won't ever fly. Sad, but true.
EDIT: And people already cry that XP loss on death in PVE is just a time-waste, yet losing items / money in PVP would be EXACTLY the same. Just a time waste to get back to where you were.
i can see your point, but without one server dediacted to that type of PVP ... it wouldnt work ... i come from star wars galaxies .. where there was pretty intense PVP ... and the cost of PVP'ing ruined the game .... the cost being the loss of xp from jedi on the grind .... i played as a bounty hunter and was harassed constantly for enjoying PVP ... bad mouthed in the forums as a cheater for being GOOD at PVP ... and all around watched as sony trasnformed the game mainly because of JEDI. bounty hunters, and PVP'ing .. into a total piece of crappolla ...
so unless one or more servers are dedicated towards " hardcore pvp", it wouldnt work imho ... and still might not ... when you dedicate an entire server to lawless and penalty ridden PVP ... people arent so interested ...or not as interested as you might think ...
first off many people like to devote their time to one character and one server ... if they had to choose between the two they'd take the server they KNEW they could grow with and enjoy the game .... second ... this isnt the MMO generation of the late 90's early 2000's ... this is a new generation ... mostly populated by younger timid gamers, or older players who dont want the drama .. ... in a game where PVP is standard in all servers they will in fact join in on the fun .. especially if there is no penalty ... but in a game where PVP offers more mature and detrimental consequences ... i expect these kids to shy away from it
No.
In a game of Poker with no money, when you lose the deck will be reshuffled. In a MMO PvP game, you simply respawn. If (no money) poker were like a MMO, then everyone would have an ACE in their hand, and their hand would grow by one ACE and everyone would be calling eachother and nobody would fold, and nobody would ever win or lose.
most mmos arent designed for full loot pvp
leveling is stupid and higher levels being able to destroy lower levels would make full loot pvp crappy
class specific items and pretty much class based games arent designed for full loot
taking months to obtain items is stupid
a game designed for full loot pvp would need to be skill based where everyone has a closer to equal chance at winning, no pre-set classes, no levels, some relatively safe towns, and pvp that doesnt last 3-4 seconds (such as wow pvp) before someone dies. gear should also be easy to get and most of the gear in the game should be craftable
mmos that are currently out just arent designed for full loot pvp and people dont understand why it would be fun. games like UO put the fun in fighting each other instead of grinding your gear and levels (which imo isnt fun).
If Poker were an MMO, then everyone would start out with 5 aces, and everytime around each player's hand would grow by an additional ace until the deck ran out of aces, then another deck would be brought in. An hour later, every player would be holding 500 aces. Nobody would ever win, nobody would ever lose, just spawn more aces.
If Poker were an MMO, then everyone would start out with 5 aces, and everytime around each player's hand would grow by an additional ace until the deck ran out of aces, then another deck would be brought in. An hour later, every player would be holding 500 aces. Nobody would ever win, nobody would ever lose, just spawn more aces. yea, i still have no clue what the heck are you talking about, but somehow i get the feeling that either you didnt quite grasp the whole poker-pvp thing or youre just fooling around, which is fine.
In general, I do not like PvP in MMORPGs. I feel that if you want to kill other player controlled characters you should go play an FPS. It causes too many problems for people who play the game for the sake of the game, to experience its richness, complete the quests, kill epic monsters, and so on and so forth.
Take Lineage 2's siege system. That is very cool. However, the ability to gank a level 1 inside the noobie zone because you are bored just seems unnecessary. The ability to prey on lower level players and steal their items is no better than being a Thug irl - because thats exactly what you're doing. Do I think MMOs should cater to people who want to be virtual Thugs without the consequence of jail time? Of course not.
That being said, I think the idea of risk is an important one - but it should be on both sides. A level 50 can kill a level 1 with no risk - essentially thats like coming to the poker table every time with a straight flush when the other person hasn't even got a pair- you dont' have much chance of losing ;P Makes the person who draws the crap hand every time wonder why they even play and eventually, they will stop playing.
PvP has its place. A voluntary system, requiring you to 'flag up' or be in 'certain zones' or even on a 'certain server' - is fine. All parties agree to come and sit at that poker table and battle it out. The problem I have is when people who don't want to sit at that table are dragged off of the couch, handed some cards and told to sink or swim. No one likes to be forced to do anything against their will, and more and more games these days are putting weaker, perhaps more Role Playing oriented players ( in an RPG, imagine that!) into situations where they can be griefed, and this is what I find to be unacceptable.
In WoW, you're basically safe unless you go looking for trouble on the 'normal' server. Thats fine. In Eq2, you're safe unless you play on a PvP server. In AC, you were safe unless you went red at the altar, which is fine, voluntary choice. However there are many games that do not give you this choice, where by installing the game you are agreeing to PvP. Yes, there's a thrill of danger, but how long are you going to keep playing a game where you find yourself constantly killed by higher lvl players against whom you had absolutely no chance to defend yourself while trying to do your noobie quests? Or trying to level up? It ceases to be a thrill of danger and becomes something different entirely - an annoyance.
Imagine if you will that every time you went out to kill a mob or do a quest, your game crashed, rendering you unable to continue. You'd log back on to lost xp or items or whatever that game's penalty is. And there was nothing you could do about it. How long would you keep playing? Its the same thing with being ganked/griefed. The exact same thing. Being beaten by something against which you had no chance isn't fun.
All that aside, I think PvP among equals or semi-equals, where both sides have risk and both sides have the same or near same chance of victory is a pleasurable experience.
Gaming? That's not gaming!
That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...
If Poker were an MMO, then everyone would start out with 5 aces, and everytime around each player's hand would grow by an additional ace until the deck ran out of aces, then another deck would be brought in. An hour later, every player would be holding 500 aces. Nobody would ever win, nobody would ever lose, just spawn more aces. yea, i still have no clue what the heck are you talking about, but somehow i get the feeling that either you didnt quite grasp the whole poker-pvp thing or youre just fooling around, which is fine.
Did you hear the parable of the monkey?
A monkey played a MMO once, he gained lots of items and gold. All the monkey needed was determination and allot of button pushing. The monkey was a chimpanzee. One day this Chimpanzee was pushing the same button over and over again and the button broke. The Chimpanzee didn't know how to buy a new keyboard, or bind another key to the action. At about this time when the keyboard broke, the monkey was just about to loot an epic piece of armor, but didn't really know it because epics drop randomly and only the server knows when an epic will drop. This is the parable of the monkey, and there is no point, sorry if you read all this.
thats why level based games arent good for pvp. games with full loot pvp should have easily attainable items, i know in UO i had several backup sets of armor banked in case i died.
a good reputation system would also be a good idea, where PKs have a rougher time and good people that kill PKs are rewarded. i really think the only problem is theres no games designed for good pvp, everythings basically an EQ clone with new skins and a couple different features. if you imagine full loot open pvp in most current games (like youre doing in your post) it makes makes pvp sound retarded. adding hardcore pvp servers to current games is probably a bad idea, because they arent designed for it and will be horrible and turn people away from pvp.
The poker thing is a reasonable analogy. However one thing you cannot do in poker is view the other persons hand but in MMORPG's you can virtually always view an enemies stats to ensure that you have a better than average chance of beating them thereby enabling the player to always pick on targets that are weaker than him/herself. Of course you could use this very same facilty to ensure that you have a comparible challenge to your own characters ability but sadly that seldom seems to happen.
In my opinion these types of games would be much better if you actually could not know the capabilities of your enemy and thus be able to pick and choose weaker targets. I would suggest removing the 'con' system between players and preventing players from inspecting other players capabilities and statistics, not even allowing them to know what areas of specialisation they have.
That coupled with a skill based game which would also allow the chance of multiple 'newbie' characters taking down more experienced characters would both allow the newer characters to have at least a chance of defending themselves from anyone and also give a some sense of the unknown and peril thereof as you would not be in a position to assess exactly what the characters around you are capable off and could quite easilly 'pick off more than you can chew.'
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"At the very least, doing the wet towel snap should disconnect the nerves of the spinal column, causing total paralysis, thus enabling you to skin the bastard alive."
Also if you make full loot pvp, then items and money would have to be easy to acquire, which then makes players not care about losing them, which defeats the the whole point to "making the death sting".
Have you ever played tibia?
okay...worst graphics out there.
BUT... awesome gameplay.
www.tibia.com
you should play it.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Ok first to the OP, You do not understand poker.
Example: You have 4 aces and a King and $20 of real money.
I have a pair 2s, a 7 a jack and a queen and $200 of real money.
You bid $10
I raise you $100 and call you.
You Loose.
Thats the problem with PVP, the ones that cry about RVR mean No risk for them and all reward for them. Those that cry about needing to be a penalty actualy mean they want to ruin other peoples fun. They forget that they are playing a game with other people and that the game should be fun for all not just them.
Poker with out money is a heck of a lot more fun than playing for real money where the other guy can just buy the pot. But then again a lvl60 attacking a lvl20 is like playing poker that way. The lvl60 just buys the pot with no Risk.
When DEVS concentrate to much of a game on so called PVP with penilities all they end up doing is ruining what that game could have become because the PKers will never fight unless they can win the pot by outclassing their victims or blobing them.
An so it begins
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