SOE didn't abandon you. You abandoned them. I'm not trolling. Hear me out. First, you have every right to take your money elsewhere. If you left and found a home then good. For you SOE-hating "cabalists" who just want to see SWG fail here are some words for you. SOE is a business and it does everything to meet financial ends... period.. end of discussion. None of this was personal. The bottom line is that, for all its success on the user side, SWG couldn't be maintained as a financially viable business. I don't know how much more clear they can be on this. The game, for better or worse, is now much more stable, far fewer bugs, easier for new players to get into, and has vastly more content. The only problem is that the community isn't there. Why?
Because all you SOE-haters have abandoned your community.
Again, people have every right to move on and find a new game but don't say that SOE abandoned you. We all lost alot in the NGE. SOE did what it had to do to keep SWG financially afloat. If you are one of those who miss the old days, and you'd go back if the community was there, but hate SOE so much that you want to see NGE and SOE fail then I blame..
YOU
because the community starts with you and you are sitting here whining and moaning. The dev team wont even listen to the community as a whole because of you. They have to pick and choose who they can get feedback from because of the anti-nge rhetoric. Thats where the disconnect is now. You complain about them but its the community you are hurting.
I've said this before and Ill say it again. It wasn't the old system that made it great, it was the vast community. The old system was just the framework. Perhaps it was better but it had major bugs and the community still adapted to the bugs and prospered. Now that the framework has been fixed to be more stable you'd rather complain than give it a shot long enough to respark the old community back and adapt to the new framework.
I hear alot of people say that they would resub 2,3, or 4 accounts if they brought back the old system and yet, it would cost a fraction of that to give the new system a shot long enough to respark the community.
Not only are you part of the problem but you are ruining the solution.
Nope, sorry. SWG fucking blows now. Thats just the way it is.
We didnt abandon anything, they changed the game we paid for, changed it to the point that it was no longer the game we paid for, and we didnt feel like playing a new game.
Hopefully, someone will release SWG player-server tools, like they did with Everquest and Ultima Online.
Some UO shards have ~1000 people. Would be interesting to have an old-school, free-to-play, populated server around.
And by the way - I hope the community dies, and the game crashes into nothingness. Maybe that will teach them a lesson, no?
I think SWG was one of the best mmos ever... but then they did things to it... horrible horrible things.... I'll come later on I'm thinking now that its under new devolopment and they fired the NGE lead...
Originally posted by Kruniac And by the way - I hope the community dies, and the game crashes into nothingness. Maybe that will teach them a lesson, no?
No need to hope. The community is dead. The game crashed and burned. It's all over, nothing to see here people
SWG in my view, was one of the best MMOs I have played. I attribute that feeling due to the vast amount of professions and combinations of professions you could come up with, and the attention to social aspects of the game as well as combat. Sure, a non-class system can be a pain in the arse to balance but it, in my opinion, is more than worth it.
You are right. SOE is a business, and businesses exist to make money. However, you can make money in a savory way as opposed to an unsavory one. If they had put expansions on hold for just a while and focused on balancing the core of the game, I think it would still be flourishing today.
As I customer, I bought SWG based on what I read about the classless system and attention to social gaming. As a subscriber, I bought Jump To Lightspeed based on my already established love for the game.
Where I get angry at SOE, is when they took that game and decided to scrap it for an easier road to profit. I truely believe they would be flourishing today if they stuck to their guns. Instead, they took the simple way, scrapped the game that everyone loved, and offered us the NGE as a replacement.
No. I did not abandon SOE. I played three weeks into the NGE. I tried to like it. I really did. But it was nothing like the game that I loved.
The community was a big part about the appeal of the game, but when the game itself is no longer recognizable, what is the point?
If I want Star Wars-y-ness, I can just as easily join a Star Wars MUD. What I wanted, was SWG. A game that did not conform to the idea of strict classes, and a game that did give more than two craps about social gameplay.
The problem is not us, the problem is the NGE. I don't care how many times they say that it is better now than it was, in my mind, and the minds of, frankly, a good majority of their former customers, it is not better.
Man is born, man lives, man dies, and its all vanity.
I dont think many people think NGE is better. But it is more stable and has more content. PvP is better, Id wish they'd bring back CH tho. Still, Ive been playing it for a month and I've yet to find a mission bug. Occaisionally I see a dialogue bug.
I dont think many people think NGE is better. But it is more stable and has more content. PvP is better, Id wish they'd bring back CH tho. Still, Ive been playing it for a month and I've yet to find a mission bug. Occaisionally I see a dialogue bug.
PVP is better ? Please explain to me how so .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ah, Blazing has arrived, so the topic is dead for all future... Noone need another 30 posts from a guy that never has anything to say, just posting complete gibberish to raise his post count. In all his time here, he has not had ONE single constructive or even intelligent post.... *sigh* Waste of DNA
It is not my problem that you are unable to have a conversation based in reality. Best of fortune in the future. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
Let me point out some historical inaccuracies repeated on this board. Anyone who played SWG in the late CU period knows that, by then, 200K subs is dead wrong. The game had declined greatly and even more so by the time NGE hit. Most of you are remembering SWGs prime but not the doldrums of the late CU. Is SWG's hayday better than NGE? Of couse. But no one should try to compare SWG's prime with NGE.
In the weeks before the CU went live there was a steady upswing in the population on just about every server. People were actually expecting the Combat Revamp that had been promised and never delivered. During the period of the CU many vets, myself included, were getting used to the new system... adapting and starting to have fun again. Around 2 weeks, maybe 3, before the NGE hit there were rumors of the impending NGE. Being a beta tester in the ToOW expansion i didnt exactly believe them because ToOW (unlike what Smedley has stated) worked fine with the CU system. If it didnt then why would there have been creatures to tame, and a new taming necklace hidden inside the Cho Gun cube. Also, we have EVERY right to compare the NGE to SWG in it's heyday. it was the mismanagement and piss poor decisions of Smedley, Freeman and others that led to this steaming pile of _______. NGE was not an arbitrary refit of a perfectly good system purely to mimic WoW. SWG was doomed and you would have all lost your characters anyway if it had folded.Im not exhonorating SOE of what they did. SOE is sqaurely at fault for rolling out the original SWG too soon, too buggy, too complex, too hard to update, whatever. And we all fault SOE for allowing a grossly lopsided economy and lopsided PVP to evolve.
Just because they released the game buggy and unfinished (like most of SOE's products) does not shift the blame of the NGE away from them. And you seem to think they did better with the NGE? Methinks you must be one of the devs who obviously do not play the game because the NGE was and in most cases still is in a state far worse than the original SWG ever was (well... almost. at least in the NGE they didnt have corpse runs where your body was not where it said it was.)
And Im certainly not blaming the players for being pissed off about SOE blowing away 2+ years worth of grinding and character building. Is it betrayal? Yes, in the sense that they created a grinding game and many people payed with the assumption that grinding would yield a powerfer character. For that, and all the reasons above, I dont fault anyone for walking. I did. But.. In the final analysis, it was a no win situation for SOE and the players. Business needs forcedSOE to either fold up shop, continue on, or revamp the whole game to make it leaner and easier to support. Users get screwed in all three scenarios. If SOE continues on they lose money only to fold up later anyway. If they revamp, they atleast have a game. Either way you disenfranchise all your loyal fan base. I was mad but later decided that I wasnt going to play victim. As the creators of the community, players have to take responsibility at some point.
There was every possibility for a win win situation. However the suits and folks at SWG thought that they could use the IP of Star Wars to shovel trash down people's throats and that they would accept it. They/We have not and will not. The vast majority of us have left that game and SOE in general far behind and take great happiness in every misstep that that moron Smedley makes. Obviously the people behind SWG in it's latter stages (Freeman, Smedley and others) are not old enough to know that the Star Wars name only goes so far. Lucas Arts almost went bankrupt in the early 90's because of the pure trash that they inundated the gaming public with, only Curse of Monkey Island saved lucas' backside. Clearly many of you just want to go with the flow and hate SOE no matter what. Ill leave you cowards to your own boredom. For those of you who think that maybe the community can be rebuilt regardless of what the game system is like as long as its SWG, then maybe my point of view makes sense to you.
Yes, you are a brave brave man calling people cowards hiding behind your computer screen. The community was ripped asunder by the supposed dev team over there. But then again the dev team that created SWG and gave us the sandbox to play in all quit SOE. Not fired, Quit! They have all left and gone onto bigger and better things, apart from Freeman who seems to be taking the fallguy role in taking on the entire blame of the NGE upon himself. The majority of systems designers pre-cu left when the CU came out. The main man behind the game Raph Koster was promoted early on and lost creative control over the game about the time of the holocron BS. He then left and its not hard to find what he is working on now. Jeff Vogel and the rest of the original UO devs that were hired by Verant to develop and design SWG are now working on Bioware's new mmo project and others.
The community will be rebuilt... in the EMU and in other bigger and better games far away from SOE's touch. Your post is just a feeble attempt at trying to bring people into a horrid excuse for a game that is neither fun, entertaining or worth anything but gamers' contempt and laughter. How bad it is when your beloved game, because of the NGE is ridiculed genre wide by every other developer. Even devs and producers of korean mmo's state that SOE is not a company to pattern themselves after. Oh how far the (in their eyes) great have fallen. ROFLMAO.
It's posts like this that sadden me. But, like a horrible accident, I can't get enough of looking at them...
SWG needs to die so it can be reborn. When apologists and masochists stop defending the indefensible, maybe this will finally get done.
"No... really... it's going to get better. The dev's say ___ is going to get a revamp... and ___ is coming back... and ___ will balance out the system... and I can't wait for the ___ update."
...wow... these posts have been going on for years.
Fine... I'll post a little "here's where I'm coming from". Started in the first year. Played through CU with 2 or 3 six months breaks. Came back about a month before NGE... played 6 months then quit because of it. Bought in to the posts pleading for players to give it another shot... I did... and confirmed that it needs to die.
Is it SOE's fault? Sure. They made a business decision and blew it. When WOW really took off... they thought to get a piece of the action... but made fatal mistakes. They thought they could keep their veterans during their gamble... but they screwed that up too by lying to everyone and taking away perks they earned through dedication and hard work (i.e. jedi). This isn't fiction... it's not "business"... it's just a shitty way to treat people.
Get it through your 's... this game is on life-support... and you blissfully ignorant and fatally optimistic people really need an intervention. Even if this game had a Living Will and a Do Not Resuscitate... you all would be appealing to the Supreme Court to keep the thing barely alive... drooling on itself.(disclaimer-any similarity between my analogy and anyone's personal experience is purely coincidental)
Your nobility and sense of chivalry is noted... now knock it off. There's nothing noble about being the last dancer in Eisley on a macro... and it's keeping the true evolution of SW online from happening. And whether it's SOE or some other company... who cares... by virtue of re-birth it'll be better.
This is THE dumbest reasoning about SWG I've ever read, ROFLMAO...
Why? Well, considering THEY SAID THEY WERE ABANDONING US FOR NEW PLAYERS, the discussion in over. The Abandoned thier previous player base for the one they have now, end of discussion, even for Smed himself.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
No its not a fair comparison to match SWG in its prime against NGE. They are two different systems, two different schemas, and are meant to exist as two different games. Clearly old SWG was better from the players point of view but you didnt have to code it, support it, manage it or handle the accounting. The whole notion that for no reason SOE dumped 350K subs from a perfect game is crap. It was far from perfect. It was a dying game with huge overhead and with numbers in was in the red.
Only people who just want to wank on and on about SOE this and that are willing to forget all of the original SWGs shortcomings and harp on NGEs. Its not the same game because NGE wasnt meant to be an immersive complex world like original SWG was.
Im not calling for some silly (and impossible) mass migration to SWG. I am saying that at some point the real players and fans of SWG need to decide wether they are a victim or a rebuilder and I am saying that all of you cowards who'd rather see SWG fail (screwing more people) just to spite SOE should move on and leave SWG to the players.
No, Im not a dev but apparently there is an irrational type of hatred for them.
Again, people have every right to move on and find a new game but don't say that SOE abandoned you. We all lost alot in the NGE. SOE did what it had to do to keep SWG financially afloat.
Here is where the argument falls apart. You say they did it to keep SWG financially afloat, yet they have proven they can make it float with half the subs and players as before the NGE. This statement makes no logical sense.
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
No its not a fair comparison to match SWG in its prime against NGE. They are two different systems, two different schemas, and are meant to exist as two different games. Clearly old SWG was better from the players point of view but you didnt have to code it, support it, manage it or handle the accounting. The whole notion that for no reason SOE dumped 350K subs from a perfect game is crap. It was far from perfect. It was a dying game with huge overhead and with numbers in was in the red.
Yet, that is exactly what they did. You seem to try and make a case for the financial reasons yet there is no factual evidence to support the claims that they are now in a better financial position than they were before the NGE. In fact the amount of people on any given server on any given day speaks volumes about how bad they have gone. You also seem to want to deny the fact that in business it is often better for a company to fail miserably so they can take those losses as a write off. Only people who just want to wank on and on about SOE this and that are willing to forget all of the original SWGs shortcomings and harp on NGEs. Its not the same game because NGE meant to be an immersive complex world like original SWG was.
See, here again you fail. A very great number of the posters here, I would say 90% of the true vets of SWG, realize and know full well that there were problems with the original game. As you have stated, I have stated (for years now), and others have stated if you took the time to read before you troll, the game was released way too early, had its share of bugs, had a complete lack of content (apart from live events which were a regular occurance before Koster was promoted and the original dev team quit), and had severe balance issues. With that said, if you were someone that played in the original pre-holo/pre-jedi days then you would be fully aware that they had been working on a combat revamp. Some of the things included in said Combat Revamp were: Full balance pass amongst ALL professions, Full balance pass on all weapons, new schematics and content, a fully implemented physics system with the ability to jump over a rock, attacks from npcs and players would no longer travel through walls etc etc etc. All of these issues still remain in the NGE and have not been addressed. Even them GUTTING the god forsaken game and stripping out 3/4ths of the professions and skills could not bring balance to the game.
Only someone completely delusional and with a complete lack of reference could say that the the NGE is an immersive and complex world. The complexity was dumbed down for the WoW crowd with the CU and completely scrapped for the NGE. Even Smedley admits that they thought the game was too complex and that they dumbed it down. But as the server populations show clearly that the VAST majority of the player base preferred the complexity of the original game to what the NGE offered. Im not calling for some silly (and impossible) mass migration to SWG. I am saying that at some point the real players and fans of SWG need to decide wether they are a victim or a rebuilder and I am saying that all of you cowards who'd rather see SWG fail (screwing more people) just to spite SOE should move on and leave SWG to the players.
Again with the use of the word coward. You really need to take a course in literature so you can understand the meaning of the word and the hypocrisy of a moron that uses it from behind a computer screen. Not only that but someone that is so brazen enough to come here and suggest that people should bend over and drop their pants begging SOE to come give em a hard hello up where the sun doesn't shine. In case you can not read this is the SWG Veterans Refuge. You are neither a veteran nor a refugee. You should seriously go back to your suck boards so the posters there can rip into you for being the prison bitch you so apparently are. No, Im not a dev but apparently there is an irrational type of hatred for them.
You really have absolutely no clue. Do I hate SOE and Smedley? good gracious no. They have, after stripping out a successful game and replaced it with a pure pile of trash, provided me with increased post counts on a number of forums, made themselves the laughing stock of the industry and made the death of SWG a slow and painful one that myself and others are able to watch with the sick fascination of someone watching a train wreck.
SOE didn't abandon you. You abandoned them. I'm not trolling. Hear me out. First, you have every right to take your money elsewhere. If you left and found a home then good. For you SOE-hating "cabalists" who just want to see SWG fail here are some words for you. SOE is a business and it does everything to meet financial ends... period.. end of discussion. None of this was personal. The bottom line is that, for all its success on the user side, SWG couldn't be maintained as a financially viable business. I don't know how much more clear they can be on this. The game, for better or worse, is now much more stable, far fewer bugs, easier for new players to get into, and has vastly more content. The only problem is that the community isn't there. Why?
Because all you SOE-haters have abandoned your community.
Again, people have every right to move on and find a new game but don't say that SOE abandoned you. We all lost alot in the NGE. SOE did what it had to do to keep SWG financially afloat. If you are one of those who miss the old days, and you'd go back if the community was there, but hate SOE so much that you want to see NGE and SOE fail then I blame..
YOU
because the community starts with you and you are sitting here whining and moaning. The dev team wont even listen to the community as a whole because of you. They have to pick and choose who they can get feedback from because of the anti-nge rhetoric. Thats where the disconnect is now. You complain about them but its the community you are hurting.
I've said this before and Ill say it again. It wasn't the old system that made it great, it was the vast community. The old system was just the framework. Perhaps it was better but it had major bugs and the community still adapted to the bugs and prospered. Now that the framework has been fixed to be more stable you'd rather complain than give it a shot long enough to respark the old community back and adapt to the new framework.
I hear alot of people say that they would resub 2,3, or 4 accounts if they brought back the old system and yet, it would cost a fraction of that to give the new system a shot long enough to respark the community.
Not only are you part of the problem but you are ruining the solution.
Actually the old system did make it great. The system set it apart form the normal games out there . As far as giving it a try , I did. Itsno more than a pay to play beta, unfinished and buggy. Serously....during my boring and un fun grind, half my mobs never fought back due to bugs, they just sat there while I killed them. And even if they had fought back...who cares, a couple hundred thousand kills of the same mob is boring as hell. PVP, when? Oh thats right....after Im done grinding. Community? Yeah its huge now! i ran into a whole 1 person a day untill I was about max level.
I've seen the writing on the wall pre launch, I was a beta tester. Still with all the bugs that it had at release it was a very good intelligent game and very customizable. However, even before Launch it wasn't the player base that let SOE down it was SOE that let the player base down... The beta testers pleaded with SOE that the game was not ready!!! SOE Never listened to anyone except people that didn't play the game or Stock holders. I agree it's a bussiness, I agree that it's about the bottom line. However you can have a great bottom line by giving the players *WHO I MIGHT ADD ARE PAYING THE PAYCHECK* what they want! The game didn't need a revamp just needed systems tweeked and content added. Everytime there was content added the subscriptions went up and people came back. For the whole 3.5 years I've played and the 3 years I payed I've seen the forum content with ideas suggestions etc... The DEVS supposedly knew better. So again it wasn't the players letting them down it was the Company that let the players down. I have no faith in them now to make it any better until they start to listen to the player base..... AND I MEAN REALLY LISTEN and not blow smoke up peoples asses just get a few more extra dollars before the game Sunsets etc..
So you can come and lecture all you want it's within your ability to do so... Just dont expect me to put my dollars into something I've been burned on too many times before. As far as bordem goes I'm not bored at all... I'm loving WoW I'm glad SWG gave me a taste of what it could have been. I went to WoW and was blown away by no bugged quests. Worlds rich with content and quests. Lag free play even with combats of large battlegrounds 40 on 40 players. Lag free play 40 on 40 in the world enviroment etc.. I can list a hundred things I see in WoW that blows SWG away just in gameplay... The one thing that sticks out in WoW I've seen is the whiners... Oh the server is going to restart to fix a problem you get people that are Bitching "I wish Blizzard would fix this crap!" I just smile and think if it was Sony the servers would be down for hours.... but nope server resets it's back up in 5 minutes I'm back to playing.
Fact of the matter is yes the Fantasy Role play has been done to DEATH... However the gameplay and complexity as well as the simplicity draws me back to the game. SWG I loved for the complexity and customization aspects as well as the virtual economy however the little kiddies didn't think it was right stuff wasn't given to them... Well they got the game they wanted now and we're going to rant about the game that got taken away it's a fact that will always be.... The horse will be beaten for quite a while you can't piss off that many people and think it will go away in a matter of months.... Maybe years but not months.
What's even funnier is he's blaming "the cabalists".
There IS NO cabal. It's a work of fiction that $OE supposingly believes. Those, like me, who call themselves members of the cabal are just making fun of their sheer lunacy.
Ah I have my Cabal membership card that you sent me Shyde. It is black and in white block letters says Pre-CU FTW.
It cost me 14.99 plus shipping and handling. We have weekly SOE Cabal Meetings at my local church Tues and Thurs from 9:30-10pm just after the AA meeting. These meetings generally have punch and cookies. Sorry no melons.
We have a Cabal manifesto
Pre-CU FTW
Death to Smedley
Pre-CU FTW
Hate all things SOE
Wookies have Feelings Too (Some hairy guy at the first meeting asked for that)
Destroy SOE Reputation
Death to Microsoft the Unix Penguin Rulz. (Damn Unix penguin showed up at the first meeting and got that past into the manifesto)
No its not a fair comparison to match SWG in its prime against NGE. They are two different systems, two different schemas, and are meant to exist as two different games. Clearly old SWG was better from the players point of view but you didnt have to code it, support it, manage it or handle the accounting. The whole notion that for no reason SOE dumped 350K subs from a perfect game is crap. It was far from perfect. It was a dying game with huge overhead and with numbers in was in the red.
Yet, that is exactly what they did. You seem to try and make a case for the financial reasons yet there is no factual evidence to support the claims that they are now in a better financial position than they were before the NGE. In fact the amount of people on any given server on any given day speaks volumes about how bad they have gone. You also seem to want to deny the fact that in business it is often better for a company to fail miserably so they can take those losses as a write off. Only people who just want to wank on and on about SOE this and that are willing to forget all of the original SWGs shortcomings and harp on NGEs. Its not the same game because NGE meant to be an immersive complex world like original SWG was.
See, here again you fail. A very great number of the posters here, I would say 90% of the true vets of SWG, realize and know full well that there were problems with the original game. As you have stated, I have stated (for years now), and others have stated if you took the time to read before you troll, the game was released way too early, had its share of bugs, had a complete lack of content (apart from live events which were a regular occurance before Koster was promoted and the original dev team quit), and had severe balance issues. With that said, if you were someone that played in the original pre-holo/pre-jedi days then you would be fully aware that they had been working on a combat revamp. Some of the things included in said Combat Revamp were: Full balance pass amongst ALL professions, Full balance pass on all weapons, new schematics and content, a fully implemented physics system with the ability to jump over a rock, attacks from npcs and players would no longer travel through walls etc etc etc. All of these issues still remain in the NGE and have not been addressed. Even them GUTTING the god forsaken game and stripping out 3/4ths of the professions and skills could not bring balance to the game.
Only someone completely delusional and with a complete lack of reference could say that the the NGE is an immersive and complex world. The complexity was dumbed down for the WoW crowd with the CU and completely scrapped for the NGE. Even Smedley admits that they thought the game was too complex and that they dumbed it down. But as the server populations show clearly that the VAST majority of the player base preferred the complexity of the original game to what the NGE offered. Im not calling for some silly (and impossible) mass migration to SWG. I am saying that at some point the real players and fans of SWG need to decide wether they are a victim or a rebuilder and I am saying that all of you cowards who'd rather see SWG fail (screwing more people) just to spite SOE should move on and leave SWG to the players.
Again with the use of the word coward. You really need to take a course in literature so you can understand the meaning of the word and the hypocrisy of a moron that uses it from behind a computer screen. Not only that but someone that is so brazen enough to come here and suggest that people should bend over and drop their pants begging SOE to come give em a hard hello up where the sun doesn't shine. In case you can not read this is the SWG Veterans Refuge. You are neither a veteran nor a refugee. You should seriously go back to your suck boards so the posters there can rip into you for being the prison bitch you so apparently are. No, Im not a dev but apparently there is an irrational type of hatred for them.
You really have absolutely no clue. Do I hate SOE and Smedley? good gracious no. They have, after stripping out a successful game and replaced it with a pure pile of trash, provided me with increased post counts on a number of forums, made themselves the laughing stock of the industry and made the death of SWG a slow and painful one that myself and others are able to watch with the sick fascination of someone watching a train wreck.
What's even funnier is he's blaming "the cabalists".
There IS NO cabal. It's a work of fiction that $OE supposingly believes. Those, like me, who call themselves members of the cabal are just making fun of their sheer lunacy.
Ah I have my Cabal membership card that you sent me Shyde. It is black and in white block letters says Pre-CU FTW.
It cost me 14.99 plus shipping and handling. We have weekly SOE Cabal Meetings at my local church Tues and Thurs from 9:30-10pm just after the AA meeting. These meetings generally have punch and cookies. Sorry no melons.
We have a Cabal manifesto
Pre-CU FTW
Death to Smedley
Pre-CU FTW
Hate all things SOE
Wookies have Feelings Too (Some hairy guy at the first meeting asked for that)
Destroy SOE Reputation
Death to Microsoft the Unix Penguin Rulz. (Damn Unix penguin showed up at the first meeting and got that past into the manifesto)
SOE didn't abandon you. You abandoned them. Damn right I did. If someone tried to pull something of NGE proportions on me, I'd leave them in the dust. I'm not trolling. Hear me out. First, you have every right to take your money elsewhere. If you left and found a home then good. For you SOE-hating "cabalists" who just want to see SWG fail here are some words for you. Thanks for reminding me I don't have to pay SWG. I figured that out when I cancelled around the fifteenth of November, 2005. Also, I guarantee nobody here wants to see this game fail. We'd love to see it suceed. We love this game more than you could possibly know. We do, however, have a different opinion on the bastards that killed the game (Your beloved SOE). SOE is a business and it does everything to meet financial ends... period.. end of discussion. None of this was personal. The bottom line is that, for all its success on the user side, SWG couldn't be maintained as a financially viable business. I don't know how much more clear they can be on this. The game, for better or worse, is now much more stable, far fewer bugs, easier for new players to get into, and has vastly more content. The only problem is that the community isn't there. Why? Yep. Its all our fault SWG failed. We completely wanted the NGE shoved down our throats. And when they gave us EXACTLY what everyone was asking for, we backstabbed the benevolent creaters (I hope you can sense the sarcasm there.). As for the superiority of the NGE, don't make me laugh. Where's the mythical subscriberbase? It isn't even stable without all the people logging on. The only thing you're remotely right on is content, and its not like I'm going to rush in and play with shit just because now I have more things to do with it. Because all you SOE-haters have abandoned your community. I didn't abandon my community, my community isn't in SWG anymore. We're here, on various other sites, and we trade e-mails/IMs. My community isn't going to pay SOE another dime. Again, people have every right to move on and find a new game but don't say that SOE abandoned you. We all lost alot in the NGE. SOE did what it had to do to keep SWG financially afloat. If you are one of those who miss the old days, and you'd go back if the community was there, but hate SOE so much that you want to see NGE and SOE fail then I blame.. SOE was doing just fine Pre-NGE. The CU was on a population upswing, everyone was having the time of their life with professions FINALLY being fixed. They wouldn't be anywhere close to the mess they're in now if they hadn't screwed with us. YOU So, you're blaming us for not bending over for SOE while they were being jackasses, and demonstrating their repitroire of completely corrupt business practices? We should support corruption to save a community that we can keep in contact with just as easily without doing so? WRONG! because the community starts with you and you are sitting here whining and moaning. The dev team wont even listen to the community as a whole because of you. They have to pick and choose who they can get feedback from because of the anti-nge rhetoric. Thats where the disconnect is now. You complain about them but its the community you are hurting. Yep, its all our faults the devs won't listen to what we want. Hey, wait a second. Aren't we trying to tell the devs something with mass cancellations and Pre-CU ftw posts? I think so. I wonder what it could be... The community has spoken. The majority wants Pre-NGE. The devs won't listen, and since we are asking them to listen, we are causing them to not listen..... I completely follow your astounding logic.
I've said this before and Ill say it again. It wasn't the old system that made it great, it was the vast community. The old system was just the framework. Perhaps it was better but it had major bugs and the community still adapted to the bugs and prospered. Now that the framework has been fixed to be more stable you'd rather complain than give it a shot long enough to respark the old community back and adapt to the new framework. You're right to a point. The game was good, but the community kept you coming back for more. However, if you fuck with your playerbase like SOE did, you're asking for retaliation. Most people don't get raped, and then ask for more like you seem to think they do. Once again, the NGE isn't anywhere close to an improvement. Believe it all you want, the Majority says you're wrong. I hear alot of people say that they would resub 2,3, or 4 accounts if they brought back the old system and yet, it would cost a fraction of that to give the new system a shot long enough to respark the community. People don't like being screwed with. However, people are also willing to accept an apology. Pre-NGE is an apology. The NGE is a "Fuck you". Not only are you part of the problem but you are ruining the solution. It is you that is the problem. Every single subscriber is someone who says SOE is right. Anyone who subscribes is preventing Pre-CU from returning. Anyone doing that is preventing the community from returning.
Comments in red.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment; We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
SOE didn't abandon you. You abandoned them. I'm not trolling. Hear me out. First, you have every right to take your money elsewhere. If you left and found a home then good. For you SOE-hating "cabalists" who just want to see SWG fail here are some words for you. SOE is a business and it does everything to meet financial ends... period.. end of discussion. None of this was personal. The bottom line is that, for all its success on the user side, SWG couldn't be maintained as a financially viable business. I don't know how much more clear they can be on this. The game, for better or worse, is now much more stable, far fewer bugs, easier for new players to get into, and has vastly more content. The only problem is that the community isn't there. Why?
Because all you SOE-haters have abandoned your community.
Again, people have every right to move on and find a new game but don't say that SOE abandoned you. We all lost alot in the NGE. SOE did what it had to do to keep SWG financially afloat. If you are one of those who miss the old days, and you'd go back if the community was there, but hate SOE so much that you want to see NGE and SOE fail then I blame..
YOU
because the community starts with you and you are sitting here whining and moaning. The dev team wont even listen to the community as a whole because of you. They have to pick and choose who they can get feedback from because of the anti-nge rhetoric. Thats where the disconnect is now. You complain about them but its the community you are hurting.
I've said this before and Ill say it again. It wasn't the old system that made it great, it was the vast community. The old system was just the framework. Perhaps it was better but it had major bugs and the community still adapted to the bugs and prospered. Now that the framework has been fixed to be more stable you'd rather complain than give it a shot long enough to respark the old community back and adapt to the new framework.
I hear alot of people say that they would resub 2,3, or 4 accounts if they brought back the old system and yet, it would cost a fraction of that to give the new system a shot long enough to respark the community.
Not only are you part of the problem but you are ruining the solution.
Could you plz come to the vanguard forums and get them out of there they seemed to have taken thier crusade to our forums
First, you have every right to take your money elsewhere. If you left and found a home then good. For you SOE-hating "cabalists" who just want to see SWG fail here are some words for you.
SOE is a business and it does everything to meet financial ends... period.. end of discussion. None of this was personal. The bottom line is that, for all its success on the user side, SWG couldn't be maintained as a financially viable business. I don't know how much more clear they can be on this. The game, for better or worse, is now much more stable, far fewer bugs, easier for new players to get into, and has vastly more content. The only problem is that the community isn't there. Why?
Because all you SOE-haters have abandoned your community.
Again, people have every right to move on and find a new game but don't say that SOE abandoned you. We all lost alot in the NGE. SOE did what it had to do to keep SWG financially afloat. If you are one of those who miss the old days, and you'd go back if the community was there, but hate SOE so much that you want to see NGE and SOE fail then I blame..
YOU
because the community starts with you and you are sitting here whining and moaning. The dev team wont even listen to the community as a whole because of you. They have to pick and choose who they can get feedback from because of the anti-nge rhetoric. Thats where the disconnect is now. You complain about them but its the community you are hurting.
I've said this before and Ill say it again. It wasn't the old system that made it great, it was the vast community. The old system was just the framework. Perhaps it was better but it had major bugs and the community still adapted to the bugs and prospered. Now that the framework has been fixed to be more stable you'd rather complain than give it a shot long enough to respark the old community back and adapt to the new framework.
I hear alot of people say that they would resub 2,3, or 4 accounts if they brought back the old system and yet, it would cost a fraction of that to give the new system a shot long enough to respark the community.
Not only are you part of the problem but you are ruining the solution.
Could you plz come to the vanguard forums and get them out of there they seemed to have taken thier crusade to our forums
Your SOE game doesn't even have official forums, what are you talking about? LMAO. SOE is trying to hide the fact the VG is broken. They don't have time to delete post if there was a VG forum, they're still too busy in the SWG forums. Piss off swede.
Could you plz come to the vanguard forums and get them out of there they seemed to have taken thier crusade to our forums
I have to say, If you're looking for someone to get ex-SWGers off your forums, you sure as hell ain't looking for him. His arguement was pathetic at best.
You'd need Rambo to get us to back down any at all, and even so, we'd get him at the end, and be back to the "Crusade of holy righteousness" to drive back the heathen SOE worshipers just that quickly.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment; We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
Let me point out some historical inaccuracies repeated on this board. Anyone who played SWG in the late CU period knows that, by then, 200K subs is dead wrong. The game had declined greatly and even more so by the time NGE hit. Most of you are remembering SWGs prime but not the doldrums of the late CU. Is SWG's hayday better than NGE? Of couse. But no one should try to compare SWG's prime with NGE. NGE was not an arbitrary refit of a perfectly good system purely to mimic WoW. SWG was doomed and you would have all lost your characters anyway if it had folded.Im not exhonorating SOE of what they did. SOE is sqaurely at fault for rolling out the original SWG too soon, too buggy, too complex, too hard to update, whatever. And we all fault SOE for allowing a grossly lopsided economy and lopsided PVP to evolve. And Im certainly not blaming the players for being pissed off about SOE blowing away 2+ years worth of grinding and character building. Is it betrayal? Yes, in the sense that they created a grinding game and many people payed with the assumption that grinding would yield a powerfer character. For that, and all the reasons above, I dont fault anyone for walking. I did. But.. In the final analysis, it was a no win situation for SOE and the players. Business needs forcedSOE to either fold up shop, continue on, or revamp the whole game to make it leaner and easier to support. Users get screwed in all three scenarios. If SOE continues on they lose money only to fold up later anyway. If they revamp, they atleast have a game. Either way you disenfranchise all your loyal fan base. I was mad but later decided that I wasnt going to play victim. As the creators of the community, players have to take responsibility at some point. Clearly many of you just want to go with the flow and hate SOE no matter what. Ill leave you cowards to your own boredom. For those of you who think that maybe the community can be rebuilt regardless of what the game system is like as long as its SWG, then maybe my point of view makes sense to you.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
No its not a fair comparison to match SWG in its prime against NGE. They are two different systems, two different schemas, and are meant to exist as two different games. Clearly old SWG was better from the players point of view but you didnt have to code it, support it, manage it or handle the accounting. The whole notion that for no reason SOE dumped 350K subs from a perfect game is crap. It was far from perfect. It was a dying game with huge overhead and with numbers in was in the red. Only people who just want to wank on and on about SOE this and that are willing to forget all of the original SWGs shortcomings and harp on NGEs. Its not the same game because NGE wasnt meant to be an immersive complex world like original SWG was. Im not calling for some silly (and impossible) mass migration to SWG. I am saying that at some point the real players and fans of SWG need to decide wether they are a victim or a rebuilder and I am saying that all of you cowards who'd rather see SWG fail (screwing more people) just to spite SOE should move on and leave SWG to the players. No, Im not a dev but apparently there is an irrational type of hatred for them.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA
Rebuild? On this?
HHAHAHAHAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Swamp Castle. The 5th time it stayed up.
AAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
/passout
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Comments
Nope, sorry. SWG fucking blows now. Thats just the way it is.
We didnt abandon anything, they changed the game we paid for, changed it to the point that it was no longer the game we paid for, and we didnt feel like playing a new game.
Hopefully, someone will release SWG player-server tools, like they did with Everquest and Ultima Online.
Some UO shards have ~1000 people. Would be interesting to have an old-school, free-to-play, populated server around.
And by the way - I hope the community dies, and the game crashes into nothingness. Maybe that will teach them a lesson, no?
No need to hope. The community is dead. The game crashed and burned. It's all over, nothing to see here people
But sadly I doubt it taught them anything...
-for the overmind.
You are right. SOE is a business, and businesses exist to make money. However, you can make money in a savory way as opposed to an unsavory one. If they had put expansions on hold for just a while and focused on balancing the core of the game, I think it would still be flourishing today.
As I customer, I bought SWG based on what I read about the classless system and attention to social gaming. As a subscriber, I bought Jump To Lightspeed based on my already established love for the game.
Where I get angry at SOE, is when they took that game and decided to scrap it for an easier road to profit. I truely believe they would be flourishing today if they stuck to their guns. Instead, they took the simple way, scrapped the game that everyone loved, and offered us the NGE as a replacement.
No. I did not abandon SOE. I played three weeks into the NGE. I tried to like it. I really did. But it was nothing like the game that I loved.
The community was a big part about the appeal of the game, but when the game itself is no longer recognizable, what is the point?
If I want Star Wars-y-ness, I can just as easily join a Star Wars MUD. What I wanted, was SWG. A game that did not conform to the idea of strict classes, and a game that did give more than two craps about social gameplay.
The problem is not us, the problem is the NGE. I don't care how many times they say that it is better now than it was, in my mind, and the minds of, frankly, a good majority of their former customers, it is not better.
Man is born, man lives, man dies, and its all vanity.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
It's posts like this that sadden me. But, like a horrible accident, I can't get enough of looking at them...
SWG needs to die so it can be reborn. When apologists and masochists stop defending the indefensible, maybe this will finally get done.
"No... really... it's going to get better. The dev's say ___ is going to get a revamp... and ___ is coming back... and ___ will balance out the system... and I can't wait for the ___ update."
...wow... these posts have been going on for years.
Fine... I'll post a little "here's where I'm coming from". Started in the first year. Played through CU with 2 or 3 six months breaks. Came back about a month before NGE... played 6 months then quit because of it. Bought in to the posts pleading for players to give it another shot... I did... and confirmed that it needs to die.
Is it SOE's fault? Sure. They made a business decision and blew it. When WOW really took off... they thought to get a piece of the action... but made fatal mistakes. They thought they could keep their veterans during their gamble... but they screwed that up too by lying to everyone and taking away perks they earned through dedication and hard work (i.e. jedi). This isn't fiction... it's not "business"... it's just a shitty way to treat people.
Get it through your
's... this game is on life-support... and you blissfully ignorant and fatally optimistic people really need an intervention. Even if this game had a Living Will and a Do Not Resuscitate... you all would be appealing to the Supreme Court to keep the thing barely alive... drooling on itself.
(disclaimer-any similarity between my analogy and anyone's personal experience is purely coincidental)
Your nobility and sense of chivalry is noted... now knock it off. There's nothing noble about being the last dancer in Eisley on a macro... and it's keeping the true evolution of SW online from happening. And whether it's SOE or some other company... who cares... by virtue of re-birth it'll be better.
Aurelion-Ellwaen-Aulric
This is THE dumbest reasoning about SWG I've ever read, ROFLMAO...
Why? Well, considering THEY SAID THEY WERE ABANDONING US FOR NEW PLAYERS, the discussion in over. The Abandoned thier previous player base for the one they have now, end of discussion, even for Smed himself.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Here is where the argument falls apart. You say they did it to keep SWG financially afloat, yet they have proven they can make it float with half the subs and players as before the NGE. This statement makes no logical sense.
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
I've seen the writing on the wall pre launch, I was a beta tester. Still with all the bugs that it had at release it was a very good intelligent game and very customizable. However, even before Launch it wasn't the player base that let SOE down it was SOE that let the player base down... The beta testers pleaded with SOE that the game was not ready!!! SOE Never listened to anyone except people that didn't play the game or Stock holders. I agree it's a bussiness, I agree that it's about the bottom line. However you can have a great bottom line by giving the players *WHO I MIGHT ADD ARE PAYING THE PAYCHECK* what they want! The game didn't need a revamp just needed systems tweeked and content added. Everytime there was content added the subscriptions went up and people came back. For the whole 3.5 years I've played and the 3 years I payed I've seen the forum content with ideas suggestions etc... The DEVS supposedly knew better. So again it wasn't the players letting them down it was the Company that let the players down. I have no faith in them now to make it any better until they start to listen to the player base..... AND I MEAN REALLY LISTEN and not blow smoke up peoples asses just get a few more extra dollars before the game Sunsets etc..
So you can come and lecture all you want it's within your ability to do so... Just dont expect me to put my dollars into something I've been burned on too many times before. As far as bordem goes I'm not bored at all... I'm loving WoW I'm glad SWG gave me a taste of what it could have been. I went to WoW and was blown away by no bugged quests. Worlds rich with content and quests. Lag free play even with combats of large battlegrounds 40 on 40 players. Lag free play 40 on 40 in the world enviroment etc.. I can list a hundred things I see in WoW that blows SWG away just in gameplay... The one thing that sticks out in WoW I've seen is the whiners... Oh the server is going to restart to fix a problem you get people that are Bitching "I wish Blizzard would fix this crap!" I just smile and think if it was Sony the servers would be down for hours.... but nope server resets it's back up in 5 minutes I'm back to playing.
Fact of the matter is yes the Fantasy Role play has been done to DEATH... However the gameplay and complexity as well as the simplicity draws me back to the game. SWG I loved for the complexity and customization aspects as well as the virtual economy however the little kiddies didn't think it was right stuff wasn't given to them... Well they got the game they wanted now and we're going to rant about the game that got taken away it's a fact that will always be.... The horse will be beaten for quite a while you can't piss off that many people and think it will go away in a matter of months.... Maybe years but not months.
Ah I have my Cabal membership card that you sent me Shyde. It is black and in white block letters says Pre-CU FTW.
It cost me 14.99 plus shipping and handling. We have weekly SOE Cabal Meetings at my local church Tues and Thurs from 9:30-10pm just after the AA meeting. These meetings generally have punch and cookies. Sorry no melons.
We have a Cabal manifesto
Or something like that.
Well said chap!
heheheheheheheheh this a joke right!........ now get out this forum please there a forum below to make this sort of post.
Ah I have my Cabal membership card that you sent me Shyde. It is black and in white block letters says Pre-CU FTW.
It cost me 14.99 plus shipping and handling. We have weekly SOE Cabal Meetings at my local church Tues and Thurs from 9:30-10pm just after the AA meeting. These meetings generally have punch and cookies. Sorry no melons.
We have a Cabal manifesto
Or something like that.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment;
We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
Your SOE game doesn't even have official forums, what are you talking about? LMAO. SOE is trying to hide the fact the VG is broken. They don't have time to delete post if there was a VG forum, they're still too busy in the SWG forums. Piss off swede.
I have to say, If you're looking for someone to get ex-SWGers off your forums, you sure as hell ain't looking for him. His arguement was pathetic at best.
You'd need Rambo to get us to back down any at all, and even so, we'd get him at the end, and be back to the "Crusade of holy righteousness" to drive back the heathen SOE worshipers just that quickly.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment;
We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA
/breathe
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I can't believe this guy
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA
Good of the game
HAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
/fall on floor
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA
Rebuild? On this?
HHAHAHAHAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Swamp Castle. The 5th time it stayed up.
AAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
/passout
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0