"Exactly, and even SWG didn't break any records.SWG only recently got very bad press,"
Based on this, I know you are new to the MMO scene. SWG didn't have any bad press at release? How long ago was the CU? I was following SWG during it's Phase 3 Beta. It had a lot of potential. But then SOE began removing and changing many of the aspects I wanted to play. It quickly became a shadow of what it was first intended to be. And if you think SWG only recently started getting bad press, you know nothing about it's history. And that tells me your experience in the MMO world is lacking. I've been playing MMOs since I started up my EQ account in '98.
By the way, you do know that a 76% is a C average. That's not exceptional, that's not even good. A C grade is barely passing in most places.
I have read it but they are so boring and it is the same stuff over and over. If gameloading says it it must be true. I know, I get it already.
I am right behind you on this. I stopped reading most of his posts half way through this whole thread since he keeps spewing the same crap over and over.
I honestly, would love to see WoW die by the hands of WAR but i can assure you it won't happen just because of WAR and not right away. But i can hope.
You are a fool your ignorance is apalling <- insult. Look at this way WoW has lets guestimate based on last press release and say 8.7million subscribers going on the current growth rate. I figure it will cap at around 10-11 million mid/end summer <- Speculation. Alright, thats alot no doubt about it at that point 1million becomes trivial. Not at all, as long as other MMORPG's are still strugling just to reach 200k subscribers, 1 million is not normal. So you figure the new breed of mmo's will dent WoW's subscription slightly (Far from killing it) lets take 2million out of 10-11 million. <- speculation Thats in truth not much and will not turn any of the 3-5 games they are going to into a juggernaught like wow. Now tack in outside generation from other sources being it Books,movies, table top games etc. That will draw in about 150k-450k per MMO <-Speculation with previousl attachments like that. Now, lets just say finally alot of the older mmo's do give up some subscriptinos lets totally all other ones at 500k. <- Speculation Your, looking at about ~2.8million <-Speculation or so subscribers going between 3-5 games. With i would wager 1/3 of them going to WAR. <-Speculation
Now not all of them might stay some might return to past games or try other new ones. or quit mmo's all together.<- speculation That will be withen the first 2-3 months. Now at that point the word gets out that WAR is infact a good game or *insert name* is a good game. <-Speculation Bam some more leave wow or other mmo or come into mmo genre <-Speculation. figure 1million-2million more in total at about the 4-5 month mark.<- Speculation
Hypothetically speaking based on hype. i am willing to bet at least 2 of the next batch of mmo's ranging from now to end of the year will hit over 1million. <-Speculation my bets on AOC and WAR. So its obvious other games can and will get over 1million and WoW Will easily stay top in your little world. <-Speculation However i figure by the quarter 3-early 4 of 08 you will be looking at less then 6million wow subscribers which will probably still reign as the supreme MMO by 1-2 million but will more then likely finally loose that spot after 08 <-Speculation. Sure this is far away, but in truth the ending of wow will be 1/3 of the time of its building up. Also, i would like to point out i doubt withen the next 5 years you will ever see another MMO top WoW subscriber cap but eventually it will happen.
Also, in the event of a WoW expac which knowing blizzard if it happens early 08 would probably delay the decline of wow at least 1 month at most 2 <-Speculation. Unless WAR, AOC or numerous others really do turn out to be the next WoW then forget it.
You see the marks I made in your post? Those are the parts where you speculate things will happen as you say they will, without ANYTHING that even hints that will actually happen. your entire post is this "blablabla this will happen, and then this, and this, and then for the finishing blow", but no evidence that backs it up that makes it a believable theory.
You see, that is my whole problem with the 1 million subscriber arguement. First it was Vanguard. I even had vanbois assure me it would totally and utterly destroy World of Warcraft. Many Vanguard vanbois are using the exact same things your using right now. It has was proven wrong in the past, I don't see why it will be any diffrent now.
You are a fool your ignorance is apalling <- insult. Look at this way WoW has lets guestimate based on last press release and say 8.7million subscribers going on the current growth rate. I figure it will cap at around 10-11 million mid/end summer <- Speculation. Alright, thats alot no doubt about it at that point 1million becomes trivial. Not at all, as long as other MMORPG's are still strugling just to reach 200k subscribers, 1 million is not normal. So you figure the new breed of mmo's will dent WoW's subscription slightly (Far from killing it) lets take 2million out of 10-11 million. <- speculation Thats in truth not much and will not turn any of the 3-5 games they are going to into a juggernaught like wow. Now tack in outside generation from other sources being it Books,movies, table top games etc. That will draw in about 150k-450k per MMO <-Speculation with previousl attachments like that. Now, lets just say finally alot of the older mmo's do give up some subscriptinos lets totally all other ones at 500k. <- Speculation Your, looking at about ~2.8million <-Speculation or so subscribers going between 3-5 games. With i would wager 1/3 of them going to WAR. <-Speculation
Now not all of them might stay some might return to past games or try other new ones. or quit mmo's all together.<- speculation That will be withen the first 2-3 months. Now at that point the word gets out that WAR is infact a good game or *insert name* is a good game. <-Speculation Bam some more leave wow or other mmo or come into mmo genre <-Speculation. figure 1million-2million more in total at about the 4-5 month mark.<- Speculation
Hypothetically speaking based on hype. i am willing to bet at least 2 of the next batch of mmo's ranging from now to end of the year will hit over 1million. <-Speculation my bets on AOC and WAR. So its obvious other games can and will get over 1million and WoW Will easily stay top in your little world. <-Speculation However i figure by the quarter 3-early 4 of 08 you will be looking at less then 6million wow subscribers which will probably still reign as the supreme MMO by 1-2 million but will more then likely finally loose that spot after 08 <-Speculation. Sure this is far away, but in truth the ending of wow will be 1/3 of the time of its building up. Also, i would like to point out i doubt withen the next 5 years you will ever see another MMO top WoW subscriber cap but eventually it will happen.
Also, in the event of a WoW expac which knowing blizzard if it happens early 08 would probably delay the decline of wow at least 1 month at most 2 <-Speculation. Unless WAR, AOC or numerous others really do turn out to be the next WoW then forget it.
You see the marks I made in your post? Those are the parts where you speculate things will happen as you say they will, without ANYTHING that even hints that will actually happen. your entire post is this "blablabla this will happen, and then this, and this, and then for the finishing blow", but no evidence that backs it up that makes it a believable theory.
You see, that is my whole problem with the 1 million subscriber arguement. First it was Vanguard. I even had vanbois assure me it would totally and utterly destroy World of Warcraft. Many Vanguard vanbois are using the exact same things your using right now. It has was proven wrong in the past, I don't see why it will be any diffrent now. Please, enlight me to where i said anything in that post is fact, i am fairly confident i made it fairly clear that it was speculation. Also, in a reverse counter to you. You have given us evidence that WoW has grown large yes, but have shown NO Evidence it will stay that large. So good game sir.
"Exactly, and even SWG didn't break any records.SWG only recently got very bad press,"
Based on this, I know you are new to the MMO scene. SWG didn't have any bad press at release? How long ago was the CU? I was following SWG during it's Phase 3 Beta. It had a lot of potential. But then SOE began removing and changing many of the aspects I wanted to play. It quickly became a shadow of what it was first intended to be. And if you think SWG only recently started getting bad press, you know nothing about it's history. And that tells me your experience in the MMO world is lacking. I've been playing MMOs since I started up my EQ account in '98.
By the way, you do know that a 76% is a C average. That's not exceptional, that's not even good. A C grade is barely passing in most places.
a 7,6 is considered by most a good score, thank you very much.
I joined the MMO scene in 2002, for your information, just to show you that your "Oh, if they don't agree with me, they must be newbies to the mmorpg genre!" theory is not working.
I also apologize, because for some reason I think I made the impression that I actually gave a damn of your experience or your past in the mmorpg genre. I do have a question though, am I supposed to look up to you now? Are you expecting me to say: "wow (no pun), Everquest since 1998, now thats an accomplishment!"?
You are a fool your ignorance is apalling <- insult. Look at this way WoW has lets guestimate based on last press release and say 8.7million subscribers going on the current growth rate. I figure it will cap at around 10-11 million mid/end summer <- Speculation. Alright, thats alot no doubt about it at that point 1million becomes trivial. Not at all, as long as other MMORPG's are still strugling just to reach 200k subscribers, 1 million is not normal. So you figure the new breed of mmo's will dent WoW's subscription slightly (Far from killing it) lets take 2million out of 10-11 million. <- speculation Thats in truth not much and will not turn any of the 3-5 games they are going to into a juggernaught like wow. Now tack in outside generation from other sources being it Books,movies, table top games etc. That will draw in about 150k-450k per MMO <-Speculation with previousl attachments like that. Now, lets just say finally alot of the older mmo's do give up some subscriptinos lets totally all other ones at 500k. <- Speculation Your, looking at about ~2.8million <-Speculation or so subscribers going between 3-5 games. With i would wager 1/3 of them going to WAR. <-Speculation
Now not all of them might stay some might return to past games or try other new ones. or quit mmo's all together.<- speculation That will be withen the first 2-3 months. Now at that point the word gets out that WAR is infact a good game or *insert name* is a good game. <-Speculation Bam some more leave wow or other mmo or come into mmo genre <-Speculation. figure 1million-2million more in total at about the 4-5 month mark.<- Speculation
Hypothetically speaking based on hype. i am willing to bet at least 2 of the next batch of mmo's ranging from now to end of the year will hit over 1million. <-Speculation my bets on AOC and WAR. So its obvious other games can and will get over 1million and WoW Will easily stay top in your little world. <-Speculation However i figure by the quarter 3-early 4 of 08 you will be looking at less then 6million wow subscribers which will probably still reign as the supreme MMO by 1-2 million but will more then likely finally loose that spot after 08 <-Speculation. Sure this is far away, but in truth the ending of wow will be 1/3 of the time of its building up. Also, i would like to point out i doubt withen the next 5 years you will ever see another MMO top WoW subscriber cap but eventually it will happen.
Also, in the event of a WoW expac which knowing blizzard if it happens early 08 would probably delay the decline of wow at least 1 month at most 2 <-Speculation. Unless WAR, AOC or numerous others really do turn out to be the next WoW then forget it.
You see the marks I made in your post? Those are the parts where you speculate things will happen as you say they will, without ANYTHING that even hints that will actually happen. your entire post is this "blablabla this will happen, and then this, and this, and then for the finishing blow", but no evidence that backs it up that makes it a believable theory.
You see, that is my whole problem with the 1 million subscriber arguement. First it was Vanguard. I even had vanbois assure me it would totally and utterly destroy World of Warcraft. Many Vanguard vanbois are using the exact same things your using right now. It has was proven wrong in the past, I don't see why it will be any diffrent now. Please, enlight me to where i said anything in that post is fact, i am fairly confident i made it fairly clear that it was speculation. Also, in a reverse counter to you. You have given us evidence that WoW has grown large yes, but have shown NO Evidence it will stay that large. So good game sir. I know you didn't read all of my posts in this thread, so I won't bitch about that. But let me explain to you that the extreme growth WoW is STILL going through, the current state of other MMORPG's, and the past are very valid arguement to hint that WoW will stay as large as it is now for a while longer then you speculate. You also missed the point I was making in that last post, please read it carefully.
It got trashed upon release. Hell if you want to talk like that, Gameinformer gave Vanguard a 7.5 and a second opinion of 7.75, now go read EVERY Vanguard forum. You will see that the game even though it got a decent score, is taking a lot of heat. Just because a site or a magazine gives the game a nice reviewing score does not mean that the players and the people on the forums agree.
A 74% is a good score? That's a C minus. How can you possibly see a 74% as a good score?
Because over here in Europe, we are used to a rating score from 1 to 10, or from 1 to 100, and let me assure you 7,4 is indeed a good score, more then enough to pass your exam, I assure you.
WoW is like Microsoft. They can only grow for so long before it caps out. There are finite resources in the world.
Very true !
Oh and btw gameloading honest question are you going to even give any other MMO's a chance or you just going to be a WoW fanboy ?
P.S. Adythiel what is your avatar reminds me of Alaitoc Eldar. Yes, in fact, I'm very looking forward to Granado Espada, Aion, Ragnarok 2: Gate of the world, WAR and Age of Conan.
I do have to say you make me chuckle, I'm glad I'm now aware of this rule:
Not agreeing WAR will be the next biggestt thing with over 1 million subscribers = WoW fanboi. no other explenation.
In NA we grade 1-10 which is 1-100 and in high school anything below a 70 is failing.
Over here, below 50 is failing. 60 is considered "mediocre" and anything above is good.
In high school, its works like this.
The minimum you must have for each class is 60 points (or a 6) at the end of the year. anything below = failed. Reaching 70 points (or a 7) and above are bonus points.
You are a fool your ignorance is apalling <- insult. Look at this way WoW has lets guestimate based on last press release and say 8.7million subscribers going on the current growth rate. I figure it will cap at around 10-11 million mid/end summer <- Speculation. Alright, thats alot no doubt about it at that point 1million becomes trivial. Not at all, as long as other MMORPG's are still strugling just to reach 200k subscribers, 1 million is not normal. So you figure the new breed of mmo's will dent WoW's subscription slightly (Far from killing it) lets take 2million out of 10-11 million. <- speculation Thats in truth not much and will not turn any of the 3-5 games they are going to into a juggernaught like wow. Now tack in outside generation from other sources being it Books,movies, table top games etc. That will draw in about 150k-450k per MMO <-Speculation with previousl attachments like that. Now, lets just say finally alot of the older mmo's do give up some subscriptinos lets totally all other ones at 500k. <- Speculation Your, looking at about ~2.8million <-Speculation or so subscribers going between 3-5 games. With i would wager 1/3 of them going to WAR. <-Speculation
Now not all of them might stay some might return to past games or try other new ones. or quit mmo's all together.<- speculation That will be withen the first 2-3 months. Now at that point the word gets out that WAR is infact a good game or *insert name* is a good game. <-Speculation Bam some more leave wow or other mmo or come into mmo genre <-Speculation. figure 1million-2million more in total at about the 4-5 month mark.<- Speculation
Hypothetically speaking based on hype. i am willing to bet at least 2 of the next batch of mmo's ranging from now to end of the year will hit over 1million. <-Speculation my bets on AOC and WAR. So its obvious other games can and will get over 1million and WoW Will easily stay top in your little world. <-Speculation However i figure by the quarter 3-early 4 of 08 you will be looking at less then 6million wow subscribers which will probably still reign as the supreme MMO by 1-2 million but will more then likely finally loose that spot after 08 <-Speculation. Sure this is far away, but in truth the ending of wow will be 1/3 of the time of its building up. Also, i would like to point out i doubt withen the next 5 years you will ever see another MMO top WoW subscriber cap but eventually it will happen.
Also, in the event of a WoW expac which knowing blizzard if it happens early 08 would probably delay the decline of wow at least 1 month at most 2 <-Speculation. Unless WAR, AOC or numerous others really do turn out to be the next WoW then forget it.
You see the marks I made in your post? Those are the parts where you speculate things will happen as you say they will, without ANYTHING that even hints that will actually happen. your entire post is this "blablabla this will happen, and then this, and this, and then for the finishing blow", but no evidence that backs it up that makes it a believable theory.
You see, that is my whole problem with the 1 million subscriber arguement. First it was Vanguard. I even had vanbois assure me it would totally and utterly destroy World of Warcraft. Many Vanguard vanbois are using the exact same things your using right now. It has was proven wrong in the past, I don't see why it will be any diffrent now. Please, enlight me to where i said anything in that post is fact, i am fairly confident i made it fairly clear that it was speculation. Also, in a reverse counter to you. You have given us evidence that WoW has grown large yes, but have shown NO Evidence it will stay that large. So good game sir. I know you didn't read all of my posts in this thread, so I won't bitch about that. But let me explain to you that the extreme growth WoW is STILL going through, the current state of other MMORPG's, and the past are very valid arguement to hint that WoW will stay as large as it is now for a while longer then you speculate. You also missed the point I was making in that last post, please read it carefully. No, i did not miss the point. You gave us evidence of its growth and extreme growth yes we got that. Now show us evidence its growth will continue after a new breed of MMO's comes out? At the very least it will stop and SLOWLY decline taking at least 1 whole year (now talking 2009) before you even begin to see large subscription drops. However you have NOT GIVEN us a shred of evidence to go on saying its growth will keep growing strong after a new product is out that is ARGUEABLY better.
All in all a 5 year life span with millions of subscribers is nothing to mock, and on that note most of us are dissing that. But most MMO's start to die in there 4th year anyhow. However those MMO's didn't have nearly the number WoW has. ALso there was far less compeition then.
But you see Gameloading WOW has already lost subscribers.. Know how I know? ITS ME!! As well as 38 guildies from Thunderhorn. ^ are staying and switching to a brother guild. You see, its hard to dispute that WOW is not losing subs since alot of us old WOW players are leaving or have left for greener pastures!
Question? Why do you even post to refute this? I left, thats a 2minus sub for the NA servers of WOW. Total accounts just from our guild is perhaps 60. Some of us 2-boxed. And we are not the only guild on our server which left.
*sigh* By losing subscribers I'm talking about a serious amount of subscribers. not 100 or 200. I am talking about those 700k players that are supposed to leave WoW after WAR, AoC and Lotro. When I talk about losing subscribers, I mean to see that 8,5 million number go down. really, what use is it to post things like "well, I quit, and my entire guild quit, and I know 5 other guilds that quit!" all those players combined are about 0,01% of the total playerbase.
Originally posted by whitedelight
Those users are either just playing because they are close to their guild and/or they are wanting to playing something until other games come out. I do not see how you can honestly think that WoW will not lose some users to ANY MMORPGS coming out this year. It does not have to be LOTRO or WAR, but any mmo.
I'm sorry, But I think I will stop commenting on your posts. If the only conclussion you can up "well, they are all just playing because of their guild or they are paying 15$ just for the heck of waiting for something else" , then I don't really want to continue to discuss with you. I would like to keep the level of this debate high, and I would like to see realistic views on the subject, not views that are guided by hate and the need to see a game do bad. You seem to think that we have reached a Max on the number of people that will play MMOs. So I guess WoW will never hit 9million or 10 million or higher. Because you seem to think that only WoW somehow can bring in more players. And for some reason every other game has to pull from WoW? That is totally illogical. There are hundreds of millions of video game players. Not the MAX, but the mmorpg genre will grow slowly. WoW will continue to grow because WoW keeps adding new gamers to the game, which is something WAR won't. hundreds of millions of video game players, but only a few million mmo gamers. ofcourse every game brings some new gamers to the genre, a couple of thousands, maybe even a fifty thousand. But not millions of gamers like WoW did. for that, you need quality, name recognition, hype and avdertisement. Ok you said that you need quality, name recognition, hype and advertisement.
Well we can easily say that EA mythic will provide the Advertisement and definitely the name recognition for the developer. A bigger recognition then Blizzard has. So that is two of the 4 you think is needed.
Wrong. Warhammer does not have the name recognition among computer gamers, and gamers do not relate Warhammer to EA. Not to mention that Mythic doesn't provide name recognition at all. I thought you read my posts?
Once again you ignore the fact that EA is known. It is more well known then Blizzard is by far. They are the NUMBER 1 (capitalized because you keep missing it) third party developer in the world. Not just in the US they are number 1 in the whole entire world. That means the only people ahead of them are first party such as micrsoft, sony and nintendo. That is it. Other then that they are the best known Video Game company in the whole World. See it doesn't matter if Mythic had ever made a game before. No one is going to look at EA Mythic and go hmm I wonder what games Mythic has made before. They will look at it and say oh EA, I know them. Do you think the average person that plays Halo can name Bungie as its maker? Or do you think it is more likely that they equate Halo with Microsoft?
Oh, so you mean like Earth & beyond hm?
What does that have to do with it? Hmm I guess I could talk about the new Starcraft game that was supposed to come out by Blizzard and never did ? Earth and beyond has nothing to do with WAR.
Because you seem to think that as soon as people see EA, they will buy it. Earth & beyondd was an MMORPG that was published by EA. it died of a lack of players. and yes, it had that fancy EA logo written all over it.
No you seem to think that people buy WoW because Blizzard is so well known. EA is better known. So since you think that Blizzard has done so well because it is so known then shouldn't EA do better since they are better known? See the faulty logic you have? WoW did well do to the advertising dollars Blizzard spent. They spent the most money on a MMO game ever. No one else so far has come close to it. Even with the 25million or so Brad spent on his crapper Vanguard that is still somewhere in the neighborhood of 15million less then what Blizzard spent. Comparing Earth and Beyond (a completely unknown IP) to WAR is laughable. Even though you seem to think that WAR isn't well known millions have come in contact with the Warhammer IP. (Table Top games, Fiction books, Video Games) And just because it is Warhammer Fantasy doesn't mean that all the good name recognition that Warhammer 40K has is useless. Remember Games Workshop (the maker of all of Warhammer products) is behind EA Mythic 100% on this game. So mark my words everyone who gets any type of literature from Games Workshop will be hearing about this MMO. Now if EA does for some reason decide not to advertise this game (which I cant possibly see them doing after they see the possible income they could get) then sure it could fail miserably. Asheron's CAll is a good example of this. EQ won the first generation of MMOs because Microsoft didn't advertise AC at all. Otherwise today we would all be playing AC clones.
Hype - well WAR won all types of awards at E3 and is hyped all over the place on Gaming sites.
Quality - well WAR will basically have been in Beta for the last 6.5 years. Mythic was able to learn all of the lessons needed to make a great game with their experience on Dark Age of Camelot.
You really need to look at what you say though. Your assumptions are very illogical. You know nothing about the actual market place yet seem to think that WoW is the only game that can bring in people? How do you know that their aren't 50 million people that looked at WoW and said man I would love to play a game like that if only it was in World "?". For all you know their could be millions and millions of people that look at WoW and say I wish I could play a game like that in Middle Earth.
I don't, but on the other hand, there is nothing that even hints that there actually are a significant amount of people who think like that, and that is my entire point. you claim that I know nothing of the actual market, yet you will see me proven right in a year, maybe two years from now.
It is just plain silly to think that 1 game only can add to the genre in significant numbers. At this point anyone that wanted to play WoW has already in the NA/EU market place. There is no way they will add anything significant to the numbers they have already. So out of 69% of american households that play Video Games, the best blizzard did was about 1% of those people. And somehow you don't think the other 200million American video game players don't want a game for them? It isn't that they haven't heard about WoW. They said no! They didn't want to play the game. And don't try and say its because of the 15 per month. That is less then going to 1 movie at the theater. It isn't the cost that prevents them from playing. It's the fact that a game hasn't come that offers them something they want.
What exactly are you talking about? WoW has been growing for over 1 million subscribers in the last year in North America, in fact, WoW has gained 500k subscribers in the last two months (although that was world wide, its is safe to assume that a number of those were in NA/EU). Nothing points in the direction that WoW has peaked. Its also obvious that you are greatly misunderstanding the 15$ border. Go look up a few reports on MMORPG's, you will see that many proffesionals talk about a large amount of people not willing to purchase a monthly fee. Why do you think that Item shop games are so incredbly successfull? and why would WAR draw such a large amount of "newcommers" with such little name recognition?
Here are the numbers for the latest expansion sold for WoW from their own press release. Pay close attention to the Parts in bright green.
"This includes more than 1.9 million sold in regions that play on North American realms, including more than 100,000 copies in Australasia, and nearly 1.6 million in Europe."
and here is the numbers from when they announced 8million users just a couple months earlier.
"8 million gamers around the world. World of Warcraft has also achieved new regional subscriber milestones, with more than 2 million players in North America, more than 1.5 million players in Europe, and more than 3.5 million players in China."
See in just 2 short months after TBC was released they actually lost subscribers in NA and only gained 100K in Europe. So yes WoW has already peaked in NA definitely and I think in EU as well. They will probably grow some more but in Asia.
The first one you quoted is 1,9 million BURNING CRUSADE copies sold, not the total subscriber base. the SECOND quote you posted, was the current subscriber base at the time of the press release.
Did you actually read it first?
So in March almost a full two months after the release of their huge expansion pack to a game that is supposedly growing in the NA market less people bought the expansion then had the game two months prior? Where is the supposed proof of the game increasing as you say in the NA market? The game came out and sold a ton of expansions yes. But it didn't sell as many as they had in the NA market place in January pre expansion. So yeah I would say that shows a decline or at least a standstill. It definitely doesn't show an increasing number of subscriptions.
You seem to forget that this is all in just 1 month. just one. they sold 1,9 million copies in just 1 month. Ofcourse not EVERYBODY is going to purchase the expansion,the first month. not everybody is even at level cap yet. If you see a decline in subscribers in this, then I'm not even going to continue debate with you. I think the real issue here is that you made a statement that you didn't look up if it was true, and now that your proven wrong, you come up with weak excuses.
Actually that is half of Jan and all of Feb. So a tad more then 1 month. But you said the NA market was growing. Why wouldn't they sell more copies of their hotly anticipated expansion pack if the market was growing? I would think since it takes less then 1 month casual play to hit the level cap that most people would want the expansion if they were happy with the game. Why would fans that weren't looking to move to a new game not buy the expansion? It doesn't make any sense at all that the first expansion of a 2 year old game, that you say has a rapidly growing subscription base in NA, would not sell all of the copies to all of their current subscribers.
See you can't even fathom the idea that maybe they lost some subscribers. I mean wow we would only be talking about 100K subscribers. And still your blind devotion to the game keeps you from thinking its a possibility.
I like all of these other people who have posted have an entire guild of about 50-60 people who have either left WoW or will be leaving WoW for Warhammer. Jeez they even have a nifty little slogan already WoW = Waiting on Warhammer.
I have asked multiple times now for evidence that hints (since you can't fully prove it ofcourse) that WAR will have 1 million subscribers, that WAR can do what No other MMORPG can do besides just 3 of them. and I have seen nothing of it. the past speaks against the 1 million arguement.
I never said it will definitely hit 1 million. I have said that is is possible. For all you or I know there are millions of foaming rabid fanboys of the tabletop game that are just waiting for it to be released so they can play it. Your the one not being logical and even thinking of it as a possibility. And as far as whats in the past. That doesn't matter. The market for MMO games has become larger. Whether you want to believe it or not the market isn't just WoW. There are more games coming out that will have people playing them. You just seem to be blinded to the fact that games will grow the market. You remind me of the people who think Women don't play Video games and its not possible to get them to play. Then a game like "The Sims" comes out and brings millions of people to play PC games that never had before. There is always going to be that special game that comes out. There will always be a new game. You just seem to not understand that. Whether its WAR, AoC, LOTRO, STO, Star Gate Worlds, or some other game we won't know till it comes, but blindly thinking that it isn't possible is just plain ignorant.
*sigh* more of that unsupported dogma. If the market for MMO's has become so incredbly large, then how come so many MMO's are losing subscribers to WoW? How come so little mmorpg's actually make it above the 200k subscribers? I'll let you think about that for a while.
Why don't you think about the number of MMOs that have come out since WoW? Have any come out that weren't plagued by bad press or problems during launch? So that means nothing at all. WoW has reached its peak in the NA marketplace for sure. In order for the MMO market to grow new games will need to bring more players to the genre. That will definitely be done with some of the new games coming out. Bioware MMO, Star Trek MMO, StarGate MMO, Lord of the Rings MMO, Warhammer MMO, Conan MMO, other then the uknown Bioware MMO each of those is build on a huge IP. You think they won't make significant waves in the market? If the bioware MMO is a Star Wars MMO done in the style of KOTOR that would be huge. Star Wars Galaxies released in a Pre WoW market where there were maybe 1 million NA mmo Players total. And now it has horrible press about it. DDO released with poor reviews and a game design that didn't do well with casual players (the group only dynamic) that was a poor gamble on trying to stay close to the feel of a D&D session with friends.
Exactly, and even SWG didn't break any records.SWG only recently got very bad press, it didn't receive such bad press at the start of the game. Also, It would be wise to get your facts right. DDO did NOT release with poor reviews in general.
D&Do is currently on average score of 7,6, thats not poor at all.
First of all 7.6 score for DDO is a poor score it did less then 7% better then Vanguard.
If you look at games that have done pretty well on subscriber base they all have something in common. They do well on reviews. and no 76% doesn't get it done. Considering reviewers very very rarely give poor scores. Average is a poor score.
But lets compare your supposed great Blizzard and their awesome quality to Mythic's Dark Age of Camelot
Using your logic though there are only about 3 million or so MMO players in NA with 2 million of them playing WoW. So if each of those games coming out does just moderately well. 150K-200K each thats about 1.2 million people gone from WoW. Thats not counting all the numerous other MMOs coming out.
According to MMOGchat.com (once again not really the most reliable choice of sites, but the only thing we really have to work with) 5 games have hit over 500K subscribers. Of those 5 of them still had over 500K subscribers post WoW. Lineage 1, Lineage 2, WoW, Final Fantasy XI, and Runescape. Of those games only Lineage 2 showed sustained losses after WoW. And we have shown that a lot of them didn't go to WoW, they were playing on free servers. Last thing I read was that Lineage 2's subscriptions are increasing after they shut down some of those free servers. Lineage 1 even being almost 10 years old lost players and then had more players and then lost players again.
Your only looking at the few bars right after the release of WoW.Look further away, you will see that: Everquest, Everquest 2, Lineage, Lineage 2 and FFXI all lost subscribers.
If you read what I wrote I was talking about games that are larger then 500K. And I was looking up to 1 year after WoW was released. If a game lost subscribers after that its pretty safe to assume they didn't leave specifically to go play WoW. They would of done that in the first year the game was out.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
It got trashed upon release. Hell if you want to talk like that, Gameinformer gave Vanguard a 7.5 and a second opinion of 7.75, now go read EVERY Vanguard forum. You will see that the game even though it got a decent score, is taking a lot of heat. Just because a site or a magazine gives the game a nice reviewing score does not mean that the players and the people on the forums agree.
Take a look at the WoW forum. WoW gets more heat then any other MMORPG, and very few people are prepared to argue its quality.
Originally posted by Azyriel
No, i did not miss the point. You gave us evidence of its growth and extreme growth yes we got that. Now show us evidence its growth will continue after a new breed of MMO's comes out? At the very least it will stop and SLOWLY decline taking at least 1 whole year (now talking 2009) before you even begin to see large subscription drops. However you have NOT GIVEN us a shred of evidence to go on saying its growth will keep growing strong after a new product is out that is ARGUEABLY better.
All in all a 5 year life span with millions of subscribers is nothing to mock, and on that note most of us are dissing that. But most MMO's start to die in there 4th year anyhow. However those MMO's didn't have nearly the number WoW has. ALso there was far less compeition then.
I have given you plenty of evidence, note that I said Evidence that HINTS towards something, you can't get undeniable evidence for something that has yet to come. I have given you the past and the current state of WoW that hints how it will do in the future. If you can't see that this is a good hint that the game will do well, then Its easy to tell that the force behind your post is your hatred for WoW and your wishfull thought that WAR will do very well.
Gameloading, are you an underachiver? If I had a rating of 74% on anything I did for work or scored a 74% on a test, I screwed up. A 74% is barely above average. That's hardly good. Barely passing isn't something to strive for. It means you didn't do well enough to be at a level to compete. It's that attitude that says it's ok to release a game bugged and not ready for release. It's that attitude that told SOE Vanguard was ready to be sold, regardless of how well the game functioned. It's the reason game developers have the release now, patch later mindset. They know people are ok with a 74% rated game and they will dump money into it. By supporting that, you are saying it's ok for them to release unfinished games.
WoW gets that heat now, Vanguard is getting it and it is what, two months old? WoW was not put under the microscope that Vanguard has and I played both upon release.
WoW is like Microsoft. They can only grow for so long before it caps out. There are finite resources in the world.
Very true !
Oh and btw gameloading honest question are you going to even give any other MMO's a chance or you just going to be a WoW fanboy ?
P.S. Adythiel what is your avatar reminds me of Alaitoc Eldar. Yes, in fact, I'm very looking forward to Granado Espada, Aion, Ragnarok 2: Gate of the world, WAR and Age of Conan.
I do have to say you make me chuckle, I'm glad I'm now aware of this rule:
Not agreeing WAR will be the next biggestt thing with over 1 million subscribers = WoW fanboi. no other explenation. I would like to point at that i never said WAR would be the next biggest but it not getting at least 1 million subscribers is a bit asinine thinking. I do wish WAR would get WoW numbers and it MIGHT but we do not know. As far WoW we know it will fail in at least 2.5 years time. That is not speculation that is fact only thing you can really argue now is if it will fail sooner or later then that. I honestly doubt it will, but i hope it does.
Before you call me a WAR fanboy. I would like to point out that i was a huge Warcraft fanboy since warcraft 2 and have been one up until 3 months ago when my love of warcraft finally died.
Gameloading, are you an underachiver? If I had a rating of 74% on anything I did for work or scored a 74% on a test, I screwed up. A 74% is barely above average. That's hardly good. Barely passing isn't something to strive for. It means you didn't do well enough to be at a level to compete. It's that attitude that says it's ok to release a game bugged and not ready for release. It's that attitude that told SOE Vanguard was ready to be sold, regardless of how well the game functioned. It's the reason game developers have the release now, patch later mindset. They know people are ok with a 74% rated game and they will dump money into it. By supporting that, you are saying it's ok for them to release unfinished games. I'd rather to be underachiver then someone who is unhappy untill he gets at least 90% on his test. I rest my case.
Comments
Based on this, I know you are new to the MMO scene. SWG didn't have any bad press at release? How long ago was the CU? I was following SWG during it's Phase 3 Beta. It had a lot of potential. But then SOE began removing and changing many of the aspects I wanted to play. It quickly became a shadow of what it was first intended to be. And if you think SWG only recently started getting bad press, you know nothing about it's history. And that tells me your experience in the MMO world is lacking. I've been playing MMOs since I started up my EQ account in '98.
By the way, you do know that a 76% is a C average. That's not exceptional, that's not even good. A C grade is barely passing in most places.
I honestly, would love to see WoW die by the hands of WAR but i can assure you it won't happen just because of WAR and not right away. But i can hope.
You see, that is my whole problem with the 1 million subscriber arguement. First it was Vanguard. I even had vanbois assure me it would totally and utterly destroy World of Warcraft. Many Vanguard vanbois are using the exact same things your using right now. It has was proven wrong in the past, I don't see why it will be any diffrent now.
You see, that is my whole problem with the 1 million subscriber arguement. First it was Vanguard. I even had vanbois assure me it would totally and utterly destroy World of Warcraft. Many Vanguard vanbois are using the exact same things your using right now. It has was proven wrong in the past, I don't see why it will be any diffrent now. Please, enlight me to where i said anything in that post is fact, i am fairly confident i made it fairly clear that it was speculation. Also, in a reverse counter to you. You have given us evidence that WoW has grown large yes, but have shown NO Evidence it will stay that large. So good game sir.
Even if he gives hints you will still cry speculation. All of your posts are speculation as well.
I joined the MMO scene in 2002, for your information, just to show you that your "Oh, if they don't agree with me, they must be newbies to the mmorpg genre!" theory is not working.
I also apologize, because for some reason I think I made the impression that I actually gave a damn of your experience or your past in the mmorpg genre. I do have a question though, am I supposed to look up to you now? Are you expecting me to say: "wow (no pun), Everquest since 1998, now thats an accomplishment!"?
Moving on,
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/468222.asp?q=Star Wars Galaxies
That is what the press had to say about Galaxies, again, a 7,4, a good score. thats not bad press,.
so thats the "Horrible press" SWG received at launch.
You see, that is my whole problem with the 1 million subscriber arguement. First it was Vanguard. I even had vanbois assure me it would totally and utterly destroy World of Warcraft. Many Vanguard vanbois are using the exact same things your using right now. It has was proven wrong in the past, I don't see why it will be any diffrent now. Please, enlight me to where i said anything in that post is fact, i am fairly confident i made it fairly clear that it was speculation. Also, in a reverse counter to you. You have given us evidence that WoW has grown large yes, but have shown NO Evidence it will stay that large. So good game sir. I know you didn't read all of my posts in this thread, so I won't bitch about that. But let me explain to you that the extreme growth WoW is STILL going through, the current state of other MMORPG's, and the past are very valid arguement to hint that WoW will stay as large as it is now for a while longer then you speculate. You also missed the point I was making in that last post, please read it carefully.
Oh and btw gameloading honest question are you going to even give any other MMO's a chance or you just going to be a WoW fanboy ?
P.S. Adythiel what is your avatar reminds me of Alaitoc Eldar.
Oh and btw gameloading honest question are you going to even give any other MMO's a chance or you just going to be a WoW fanboy ?
P.S. Adythiel what is your avatar reminds me of Alaitoc Eldar. Yes, in fact, I'm very looking forward to Granado Espada, Aion, Ragnarok 2: Gate of the world, WAR and Age of Conan.
I do have to say you make me chuckle, I'm glad I'm now aware of this rule:
Not agreeing WAR will be the next biggestt thing with over 1 million subscribers = WoW fanboi. no other explenation.
In high school, its works like this.
The minimum you must have for each class is 60 points (or a 6) at the end of the year. anything below = failed. Reaching 70 points (or a 7) and above are bonus points.
You see, that is my whole problem with the 1 million subscriber arguement. First it was Vanguard. I even had vanbois assure me it would totally and utterly destroy World of Warcraft. Many Vanguard vanbois are using the exact same things your using right now. It has was proven wrong in the past, I don't see why it will be any diffrent now. Please, enlight me to where i said anything in that post is fact, i am fairly confident i made it fairly clear that it was speculation. Also, in a reverse counter to you. You have given us evidence that WoW has grown large yes, but have shown NO Evidence it will stay that large. So good game sir. I know you didn't read all of my posts in this thread, so I won't bitch about that. But let me explain to you that the extreme growth WoW is STILL going through, the current state of other MMORPG's, and the past are very valid arguement to hint that WoW will stay as large as it is now for a while longer then you speculate. You also missed the point I was making in that last post, please read it carefully. No, i did not miss the point. You gave us evidence of its growth and extreme growth yes we got that. Now show us evidence its growth will continue after a new breed of MMO's comes out? At the very least it will stop and SLOWLY decline taking at least 1 whole year (now talking 2009) before you even begin to see large subscription drops. However you have NOT GIVEN us a shred of evidence to go on saying its growth will keep growing strong after a new product is out that is ARGUEABLY better.
All in all a 5 year life span with millions of subscribers is nothing to mock, and on that note most of us are dissing that. But most MMO's start to die in there 4th year anyhow. However those MMO's didn't have nearly the number WoW has. ALso there was far less compeition then.
I'm sorry, But I think I will stop commenting on your posts. If the only conclussion you can up "well, they are all just playing because of their guild or they are paying 15$ just for the heck of waiting for something else" , then I don't really want to continue to discuss with you. I would like to keep the level of this debate high, and I would like to see realistic views on the subject, not views that are guided by hate and the need to see a game do bad. You seem to think that we have reached a Max on the number of people that will play MMOs. So I guess WoW will never hit 9million or 10 million or higher. Because you seem to think that only WoW somehow can bring in more players. And for some reason every other game has to pull from WoW? That is totally illogical. There are hundreds of millions of video game players. Not the MAX, but the mmorpg genre will grow slowly. WoW will continue to grow because WoW keeps adding new gamers to the game, which is something WAR won't. hundreds of millions of video game players, but only a few million mmo gamers. ofcourse every game brings some new gamers to the genre, a couple of thousands, maybe even a fifty thousand. But not millions of gamers like WoW did. for that, you need quality, name recognition, hype and avdertisement. Ok you said that you need quality, name recognition, hype and advertisement.
Well we can easily say that EA mythic will provide the Advertisement and definitely the name recognition for the developer. A bigger recognition then Blizzard has. So that is two of the 4 you think is needed.
Wrong. Warhammer does not have the name recognition among computer gamers, and gamers do not relate Warhammer to EA. Not to mention that Mythic doesn't provide name recognition at all. I thought you read my posts?
Once again you ignore the fact that EA is known. It is more well known then Blizzard is by far. They are the NUMBER 1 (capitalized because you keep missing it) third party developer in the world. Not just in the US they are number 1 in the whole entire world. That means the only people ahead of them are first party such as micrsoft, sony and nintendo. That is it. Other then that they are the best known Video Game company in the whole World. See it doesn't matter if Mythic had ever made a game before. No one is going to look at EA Mythic and go hmm I wonder what games Mythic has made before. They will look at it and say oh EA, I know them. Do you think the average person that plays Halo can name Bungie as its maker? Or do you think it is more likely that they equate Halo with Microsoft?
Oh, so you mean like Earth & beyond hm?
What does that have to do with it? Hmm I guess I could talk about the new Starcraft game that was supposed to come out by Blizzard and never did ? Earth and beyond has nothing to do with WAR.
Because you seem to think that as soon as people see EA, they will buy it. Earth & beyondd was an MMORPG that was published by EA. it died of a lack of players. and yes, it had that fancy EA logo written all over it.
No you seem to think that people buy WoW because Blizzard is so well known. EA is better known. So since you think that Blizzard has done so well because it is so known then shouldn't EA do better since they are better known? See the faulty logic you have? WoW did well do to the advertising dollars Blizzard spent. They spent the most money on a MMO game ever. No one else so far has come close to it. Even with the 25million or so Brad spent on his crapper Vanguard that is still somewhere in the neighborhood of 15million less then what Blizzard spent. Comparing Earth and Beyond (a completely unknown IP) to WAR is laughable. Even though you seem to think that WAR isn't well known millions have come in contact with the Warhammer IP. (Table Top games, Fiction books, Video Games) And just because it is Warhammer Fantasy doesn't mean that all the good name recognition that Warhammer 40K has is useless. Remember Games Workshop (the maker of all of Warhammer products) is behind EA Mythic 100% on this game. So mark my words everyone who gets any type of literature from Games Workshop will be hearing about this MMO. Now if EA does for some reason decide not to advertise this game (which I cant possibly see them doing after they see the possible income they could get) then sure it could fail miserably. Asheron's CAll is a good example of this. EQ won the first generation of MMOs because Microsoft didn't advertise AC at all. Otherwise today we would all be playing AC clones.
Hype - well WAR won all types of awards at E3 and is hyped all over the place on Gaming sites.
Quality - well WAR will basically have been in Beta for the last 6.5 years. Mythic was able to learn all of the lessons needed to make a great game with their experience on Dark Age of Camelot.
You really need to look at what you say though. Your assumptions are very illogical. You know nothing about the actual market place yet seem to think that WoW is the only game that can bring in people? How do you know that their aren't 50 million people that looked at WoW and said man I would love to play a game like that if only it was in World "?". For all you know their could be millions and millions of people that look at WoW and say I wish I could play a game like that in Middle Earth.
I don't, but on the other hand, there is nothing that even hints that there actually are a significant amount of people who think like that, and that is my entire point. you claim that I know nothing of the actual market, yet you will see me proven right in a year, maybe two years from now.
It is just plain silly to think that 1 game only can add to the genre in significant numbers. At this point anyone that wanted to play WoW has already in the NA/EU market place. There is no way they will add anything significant to the numbers they have already. So out of 69% of american households that play Video Games, the best blizzard did was about 1% of those people. And somehow you don't think the other 200million American video game players don't want a game for them? It isn't that they haven't heard about WoW. They said no! They didn't want to play the game. And don't try and say its because of the 15 per month. That is less then going to 1 movie at the theater. It isn't the cost that prevents them from playing. It's the fact that a game hasn't come that offers them something they want.
What exactly are you talking about? WoW has been growing for over 1 million subscribers in the last year in North America, in fact, WoW has gained 500k subscribers in the last two months (although that was world wide, its is safe to assume that a number of those were in NA/EU). Nothing points in the direction that WoW has peaked. Its also obvious that you are greatly misunderstanding the 15$ border. Go look up a few reports on MMORPG's, you will see that many proffesionals talk about a large amount of people not willing to purchase a monthly fee. Why do you think that Item shop games are so incredbly successfull? and why would WAR draw such a large amount of "newcommers" with such little name recognition?
Here are the numbers for the latest expansion sold for WoW from their own press release. Pay close attention to the Parts in bright green.
"This includes more than 1.9 million sold in regions that play on North American realms, including more than 100,000 copies in Australasia, and nearly 1.6 million in Europe."
and here is the numbers from when they announced 8million users just a couple months earlier.
"8 million gamers around the world. World of Warcraft has also achieved new regional subscriber milestones, with more than 2 million players in North America, more than 1.5 million players in Europe, and more than 3.5 million players in China."
See in just 2 short months after TBC was released they actually lost subscribers in NA and only gained 100K in Europe. So yes WoW has already peaked in NA definitely and I think in EU as well. They will probably grow some more but in Asia.
The first one you quoted is 1,9 million BURNING CRUSADE copies sold, not the total subscriber base. the SECOND quote you posted, was the current subscriber base at the time of the press release.
Did you actually read it first?
So in March almost a full two months after the release of their huge expansion pack to a game that is supposedly growing in the NA market less people bought the expansion then had the game two months prior? Where is the supposed proof of the game increasing as you say in the NA market? The game came out and sold a ton of expansions yes. But it didn't sell as many as they had in the NA market place in January pre expansion. So yeah I would say that shows a decline or at least a standstill. It definitely doesn't show an increasing number of subscriptions.
You seem to forget that this is all in just 1 month. just one. they sold 1,9 million copies in just 1 month. Ofcourse not EVERYBODY is going to purchase the expansion,the first month. not everybody is even at level cap yet. If you see a decline in subscribers in this, then I'm not even going to continue debate with you. I think the real issue here is that you made a statement that you didn't look up if it was true, and now that your proven wrong, you come up with weak excuses.
Actually that is half of Jan and all of Feb. So a tad more then 1 month. But you said the NA market was growing. Why wouldn't they sell more copies of their hotly anticipated expansion pack if the market was growing? I would think since it takes less then 1 month casual play to hit the level cap that most people would want the expansion if they were happy with the game. Why would fans that weren't looking to move to a new game not buy the expansion? It doesn't make any sense at all that the first expansion of a 2 year old game, that you say has a rapidly growing subscription base in NA, would not sell all of the copies to all of their current subscribers.
See you can't even fathom the idea that maybe they lost some subscribers. I mean wow we would only be talking about 100K subscribers. And still your blind devotion to the game keeps you from thinking its a possibility.
I like all of these other people who have posted have an entire guild of about 50-60 people who have either left WoW or will be leaving WoW for Warhammer. Jeez they even have a nifty little slogan already WoW = Waiting on Warhammer.
I have asked multiple times now for evidence that hints (since you can't fully prove it ofcourse) that WAR will have 1 million subscribers, that WAR can do what No other MMORPG can do besides just 3 of them. and I have seen nothing of it. the past speaks against the 1 million arguement.
I never said it will definitely hit 1 million. I have said that is is possible. For all you or I know there are millions of foaming rabid fanboys of the tabletop game that are just waiting for it to be released so they can play it. Your the one not being logical and even thinking of it as a possibility. And as far as whats in the past. That doesn't matter. The market for MMO games has become larger. Whether you want to believe it or not the market isn't just WoW. There are more games coming out that will have people playing them. You just seem to be blinded to the fact that games will grow the market. You remind me of the people who think Women don't play Video games and its not possible to get them to play. Then a game like "The Sims" comes out and brings millions of people to play PC games that never had before. There is always going to be that special game that comes out. There will always be a new game. You just seem to not understand that. Whether its WAR, AoC, LOTRO, STO, Star Gate Worlds, or some other game we won't know till it comes, but blindly thinking that it isn't possible is just plain ignorant.
*sigh* more of that unsupported dogma. If the market for MMO's has become so incredbly large, then how come so many MMO's are losing subscribers to WoW? How come so little mmorpg's actually make it above the 200k subscribers? I'll let you think about that for a while.
Why don't you think about the number of MMOs that have come out since WoW? Have any come out that weren't plagued by bad press or problems during launch? So that means nothing at all. WoW has reached its peak in the NA marketplace for sure. In order for the MMO market to grow new games will need to bring more players to the genre. That will definitely be done with some of the new games coming out. Bioware MMO, Star Trek MMO, StarGate MMO, Lord of the Rings MMO, Warhammer MMO, Conan MMO, other then the uknown Bioware MMO each of those is build on a huge IP. You think they won't make significant waves in the market? If the bioware MMO is a Star Wars MMO done in the style of KOTOR that would be huge. Star Wars Galaxies released in a Pre WoW market where there were maybe 1 million NA mmo Players total. And now it has horrible press about it. DDO released with poor reviews and a game design that didn't do well with casual players (the group only dynamic) that was a poor gamble on trying to stay close to the feel of a D&D session with friends.
Exactly, and even SWG didn't break any records. SWG only recently got very bad press, it didn't receive such bad press at the start of the game. Also, It would be wise to get your facts right. DDO did NOT release with poor reviews in general.
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/915021.asp?q=Dungeons Dragons Online
D&Do is currently on average score of 7,6, thats not poor at all.
First of all 7.6 score for DDO is a poor score it did less then 7% better then Vanguard.
If you look at games that have done pretty well on subscriber base they all have something in common. They do well on reviews. and no 76% doesn't get it done. Considering reviewers very very rarely give poor scores. Average is a poor score.
But lets compare your supposed great Blizzard and their awesome quality to Mythic's Dark Age of Camelot
WoW 91.8%
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/534914.asp?q=world of warcraft
DAoC 87%
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/437033.asp?q=Dark age of Camelot
Not much better there. So Mythic obviously has the ability to put out a great product.
Oh But wait. According to your choice of Website Lineage 1 and 2 should of bombed horribly.
Lineage 1 - 67%
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/516635.asp?q=Lineage
Lineage 2 - 64%
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/559083.asp?q=Lineage
SWG according to that site with reviews from 2003 recieved a 74%
But there were quite a few in the 70% and lower over all.
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/468222.asp?q=Star Wars Galaxies
So I would say that is pretty bad press.
Using your logic though there are only about 3 million or so MMO players in NA with 2 million of them playing WoW. So if each of those games coming out does just moderately well. 150K-200K each thats about 1.2 million people gone from WoW. Thats not counting all the numerous other MMOs coming out.
According to MMOGchat.com (once again not really the most reliable choice of sites, but the only thing we really have to work with) 5 games have hit over 500K subscribers. Of those 5 of them still had over 500K subscribers post WoW. Lineage 1, Lineage 2, WoW, Final Fantasy XI, and Runescape. Of those games only Lineage 2 showed sustained losses after WoW. And we have shown that a lot of them didn't go to WoW, they were playing on free servers. Last thing I read was that Lineage 2's subscriptions are increasing after they shut down some of those free servers. Lineage 1 even being almost 10 years old lost players and then had more players and then lost players again.
Your only looking at the few bars right after the release of WoW. Look further away, you will see that: Everquest, Everquest 2, Lineage, Lineage 2 and FFXI all lost subscribers.
If you read what I wrote I was talking about games that are larger then 500K. And I was looking up to 1 year after WoW was released. If a game lost subscribers after that its pretty safe to assume they didn't leave specifically to go play WoW. They would of done that in the first year the game was out.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I have given you plenty of evidence, note that I said Evidence that HINTS towards something, you can't get undeniable evidence for something that has yet to come. I have given you the past and the current state of WoW that hints how it will do in the future. If you can't see that this is a good hint that the game will do well, then Its easy to tell that the force behind your post is your hatred for WoW and your wishfull thought that WAR will do very well.
Oh and btw gameloading honest question are you going to even give any other MMO's a chance or you just going to be a WoW fanboy ?
P.S. Adythiel what is your avatar reminds me of Alaitoc Eldar. Here is a link directly to it for you. You are close. http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/highelves/extras/banners/assets/highelfcolourbannerspage.pdf
Gameloading, are you an underachiver? If I had a rating of 74% on anything I did for work or scored a 74% on a test, I screwed up. A 74% is barely above average. That's hardly good. Barely passing isn't something to strive for. It means you didn't do well enough to be at a level to compete. It's that attitude that says it's ok to release a game bugged and not ready for release. It's that attitude that told SOE Vanguard was ready to be sold, regardless of how well the game functioned. It's the reason game developers have the release now, patch later mindset. They know people are ok with a 74% rated game and they will dump money into it. By supporting that, you are saying it's ok for them to release unfinished games.
Oh and btw gameloading honest question are you going to even give any other MMO's a chance or you just going to be a WoW fanboy ?
P.S. Adythiel what is your avatar reminds me of Alaitoc Eldar. Yes, in fact, I'm very looking forward to Granado Espada, Aion, Ragnarok 2: Gate of the world, WAR and Age of Conan.
I do have to say you make me chuckle, I'm glad I'm now aware of this rule:
Not agreeing WAR will be the next biggestt thing with over 1 million subscribers = WoW fanboi. no other explenation. I would like to point at that i never said WAR would be the next biggest but it not getting at least 1 million subscribers is a bit asinine thinking. I do wish WAR would get WoW numbers and it MIGHT but we do not know. As far WoW we know it will fail in at least 2.5 years time. That is not speculation that is fact only thing you can really argue now is if it will fail sooner or later then that. I honestly doubt it will, but i hope it does.
Before you call me a WAR fanboy. I would like to point out that i was a huge Warcraft fanboy since warcraft 2 and have been one up until 3 months ago when my love of warcraft finally died.
We can continue this debate once you are prepared to fully read my posts so you will understand my standpoints.
Oh and btw gameloading honest question are you going to even give any other MMO's a chance or you just going to be a WoW fanboy ?
P.S. Adythiel what is your avatar reminds me of Alaitoc Eldar. Here is a link directly to it for you. You are close. http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/highelves/extras/banners/assets/highelfcolourbannerspage.pdf
Gameloading, are you an underachiver? If I had a rating of 74% on anything I did for work or scored a 74% on a test, I screwed up. A 74% is barely above average. That's hardly good. Barely passing isn't something to strive for. It means you didn't do well enough to be at a level to compete. It's that attitude that says it's ok to release a game bugged and not ready for release. It's that attitude that told SOE Vanguard was ready to be sold, regardless of how well the game functioned. It's the reason game developers have the release now, patch later mindset. They know people are ok with a 74% rated game and they will dump money into it. By supporting that, you are saying it's ok for them to release unfinished games. I'd rather to be underachiver then someone who is unhappy untill he gets at least 90% on his test. I rest my case.