you know what, if POTBS didnt screw itself over by signing up with SOE, they would not have to come to these forums and try to deal with this PR disaster that they created in order to save a few subs.
Haha, I don't think you understand how PotBS interacts with it's community. As stated previously, the FLS employees and developers are extremely involved with their community. They hire dedicated forum members as company employees, they make massive game overhauls if the community asks for it, and they actually befriend many of their fans.
Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you have to cry a river on the forums for no reason. I think that more FLS developer interaction with the community is better than having them sit in a corner and not saying anything about the contract at all.
For all of the people whining about this contract, suck it up and go somewhere else - you aren't impressing anybody with your crybaby behavior.
Time will tell if the deal you got from Sony makes up for the revenue you won't make from people like me who won't play any game connected to SOE. It's too bad--especially so soon after the Vanguard debacle. What do they say about people who don't learn from the past?
This is a good interview with an ex-sigil employee that will help anyone wishing to educate themselves on the "Vanguard debacle". Some interesting notes:
f13.net: What was SOE's involvement from beginning the partnership up until E3 2006?
Ex-Sigil: No hands-on influence from SOE, only leveraging of SOE assets like testing.
f13.net: How deep did SOE's hands get into it? What was the progression like?
Ex-Sigil: They were hands-off all the way up til today
f13.net: ... are you serious?
Ex-Sigil: SOE lent a few devs to us in the final days, but it was nothing like people think. I think design had 3 people, art 2, and programming 1 from SOE. They let us use their testing dept too somewhat. We felt somewhat reborn I guess, but with a sense of reservation. When the merger happened SOE embraced us, and spent a LOT of money on us right away. It felt really good.
f13.net: What happened in the short time between E3 2006 and Beta?
Ex-Sigil: The dev staff knew the game wasn't ready. Brad set the beta start I think and was completely clueless as to the actual state of the game... not listening to anyone telling him it wasn't ready
f13.net: How was QA treated through the course of development?
Ex-Sigil: QA?
f13.net: QA.
Ex-Sigil: QA was one person up until about November... ONE.
f13.net: What.
Ex-Sigil: 100% serious.
f13.net: What? How? This is an MMOG.
Ex-Sigil: Vanguard had one internal tester for probably 95% of the design cycle.
f13.net: Doesn't the complete and utter failure, in hindsight, seem like a self-fulfilled prophecy though with only one QA member?
Ex-Sigil: The reasons for failure are too numerous to list, but can all be summed up by a lack of management. Brad, for all his faults at least made decisions. So did Jeff. Right or wrong, they took a shot. The people in charge now were so afraid to make the wrong decision that they made no decision at all.
Read the whole thing for more information. You can't use Vanguard's failure as a valid argument against SOE. To do so is simply misguided.
May i ask, What wrong with SOE? They are a great company and there games are great? Beter than i see anywhere else, No one compaires to SOE in my opinion!
Nothing wrong with SOE aqt all and a good move in this case. For all the SOE haters out there I'll dance on your graves now what a total bunch of class 1 muppets.
To not play PoC becuase of SOE is severely misguided and better for all of us who have a semblence of common sense.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
May i ask, What wrong with SOE? They are a great company and there games are great? Beter than i see anywhere else, No one compaires to SOE in my opinion!
WTF is this? I am no SoE hater...but you've made 1 post...and this is it...SoE is on every aspect of your profile....good lord, if you're gonna shill for SoE, please be more creative about it.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
Don't give the SOE haters another thought. They actually think there's enough of them to make a dent in subscription numbers.
There isn't. People like to THINK there are, but the reality is that most people who are irked by Sony will still give POTBS a try.
That includes me.
I hated Vanguard as well. The fact that SOE was "involved" in their billing, whatever, had nothing to do with why they flopped. Vanguard flopped because Sigil got themselves in too deep, had a flawed vision, and were forced into the Catch 22 of needing to bring in money from an unfinished game.
It absolutely amazes me that more people aren't blaming Sigil for them blowing their own game, seriously.
POTBS is in an entirely different boat, and some people are simply grasping at straws to find an excuse to bash Sony.
If Sony helping them publish their own game and helping them with infrastructure is a big enough reason for you to not play...
Then good riddance, cause you weren't a true fan anyway. Jaded "fans" like those would simply find any excuse to complain about an MMO.
From logistical standpoint, Sony's involvement does nothing but help this game's exposure and give it the best shot it has at succeeding in a mainstream fashion. Be "hardcore anti-Sony" if you want, but that very vocal minority won't carry a game, so I'm not worried about them "refusing to play".
trust me we SOE boycotters are enough...look at this :
vangaurd has maybe 20k subs at the msot. And I am sure the we will not play SOE game people are far greater than 20k.. thats a whole game community right there that if they did not play or did play would be the game with zero population or double the current population. thats huge. but ok bye go play your shitty Pirates game that is owned by SOE unofficially
The number of people who may not be fans of Sony? Sure, 20000 might not be a stretch. I'm one of them. I've played EQ2 after all; I understand the frustration.
The number who'll go so far as to not play any of their games? Far less than 20000. Far less. I'm not going to slap an exact number on it, but the vocal minority always makes themselves appear larger than they are. This really isn't different.
This number you're throwing out isn't going to be more than a few thousand. Drop in the bucket. And I'm talking in total too -- not all of this few thousand would've been interested in POTBS anyway.
Flying Lab's answer to this concern by the way comes from the fact that they read online forums, which by human nature is filled with more negative than positive things. Beta testers read forums -- the majority of people who play online though, hardly ever post to them.
trust me we SOE boycotters are enough...look at this :
vangaurd has maybe 20k subs at the msot. And I am sure the we will not play SOE game people are far greater than 20k.. thats a whole game community right there that if they did not play or did play would be the game with zero population or double the current population. thats huge. but ok bye go play your shitty Pirates game that is owned by SOE unofficially
Hasn't it ever occurred to you that Vanguard might just be a bad game? The majority of people will decide not to play a game because it isn't any fun - not because of the publisher or developer. I don't really care who is in charge of marketing a game I play just as long as it is fun.
You are really just making yourself look stupid. Telling us SOE "unofficially" owns PotBS is probably one of the worst arguments you can make... Since it isn't true. If you are so concerned about SOE lying, I suggest you keep your lies to a minimum too, otherwise you just look like a hypocrite.
Vanguard was a bad game from the start and Brad is a silly person from the start. He did good in the past and his game clearly proved that he has never managed to follow the evolution of both technology and communities. When Sigil was about to die, SOE decided to aquire vanguard and they are now trying to make it better.
Still, Vanguard was a bad design and concept from the start.
Pirates is a good game from the start and pretty much everything that the devs promised has made it to the game so far.
SOE has good servers, a fine patching system, easy to use billing systems and others. Stop hating them for being a big corporation, you're in 2007 and big corporations are not all evil. Do you all think that an evil guy is sitting in his lab thinking about world domination when they aquire a new game to publish?
So yes, the recent saga of Vanguard did hurt SOE again in reputation but if you document yourself closely, SOE is not actually the ones responsible for that. It's all about Sigil not doing things right. How the hell do you make a game so un-optimized for a computer when you're using the U3 engine...
So yes, the recent saga of Vanguard did hurt SOE again in reputation but if you document yourself closely, SOE is not actually the ones responsible for that. It's all about Sigil not doing things right. How the hell do you make a game so un-optimized for a computer when you're using the U3 engine... It's simple like that.
Exactly. It's all about a company that made a game they wanted to be able to "look great on new computers years from now", but never thought about the road to get there.
I don't know what the SOE-haters want -- a digital-download only game? They want Flying Lab to lose their IP rights? *shrug*
So i suppose cause some FLS Dev says so it makes it true? I recall Brad from sigil having a similar post saying basically the same thing. SoE said the same things right before the CU.. Then allmost word for word when the NGE was announced. Well i suppose that means that you cant take E-words as the gospel truth. The truth will come when the statement is proven or disproven through actions.
Its about the money no matter what Pr spin is given. I dont blame them for wanting to better their status as a developer. But why SoE? Knowing that their current reputation with gamers is rocky at best. I suppose we shall see in a few months how good/bad this move was. I hate to be negative but due to SoE's customer treatment tactics in the past will effect the games player base. I have a hard time giving money to SoE based soley on how i was treated in several games. Hey SoE made their reputation not the paying customers.
So PotBS will be losing a small number of potential customers who fall into the following categories (one or more):
1) People who will be scarred for life if the game does not turn out well. 2) People who compare a failed attempt to improve a game to actions of pure evil or terrorism. 3) People who continually post lies as fact and refuse to read or just ignore facts that harm their viewpoint. 4) People who twist even positive actions (SOE ---rescued--- Vanguard, not destroyed it!) into some great act of evil. 5) People who honestly believe a handful of people on a forum represent a massive customer base that should be favored over retaining ownership of the IP or the customer base of EVERYONE WHO WALKS INTO A STORE. 6) People who seem otherwise like fine human beings, but for some reason, have no problem with lumping themselves in with, and standing beside the people in groups 1-5. If you are a person in group #6, please reexamine, set down the kool-aid, and rejoin the rest of us on the slightly less crazy side of the fence.
It seems to me that losing most of those people is an argument FOR signing with SOE, not an argument against it. A community without people who treat game companies as gods and devils, and let games embitter them for years, is a community I'm more likely to enjoy.
trust me we SOE boycotters are enough...look at this :
vangaurd has maybe 20k subs at the msot. And I am sure the we will not play SOE game people are far greater than 20k.. thats a whole game community right there that if they did not play or did play would be the game with zero population or double the current population. thats huge. but ok bye go play your shitty Pirates game that is owned by SOE unofficially
The number of people who may not be fans of Sony? Sure, 20000 might not be a stretch. I'm one of them. I've played EQ2 after all; I understand the frustration.
The number who'll go so far as to not play any of their games? Far less than 20000. Far less. I'm not going to slap an exact number on it, but the vocal minority always makes themselves appear larger than they are. This really isn't different.
This number you're throwing out isn't going to be more than a few thousand. Drop in the bucket. And I'm talking in total too -- not all of this few thousand would've been interested in POTBS anyway.
Flying Lab's answer to this concern by the way comes from the fact that they read online forums, which by human nature is filled with more negative than positive things. Beta testers read forums -- the majority of people who play online though, hardly ever post to them.
well to you, you think the market of mmo players is in the 100k marks or near that. in reality its a huge business. millions upon millons of players have been screwed by SOE..negative publicity is now being brought upon POTBS because of this very poor decision. so in fact that will hurt the game.. as simple as i can put it
So i suppose cause some FLS Dev says so it makes it true? I recall Brad from sigil having a similar post saying basically the same thing. SoE said the same things right before the CU.. Then allmost word for word when the NGE was announced. Well i suppose that means that you cant take E-words as the gospel truth. The truth will come when the statement is proven or disproven through actions. Its about the money no matter what Pr spin is given. I dont blame them for wanting to better their status as a developer. But why SoE? Knowing that their current reputation with gamers is rocky at best. I suppose we shall see in a few months how good/bad this move was. I hate to be negative but due to SoE's customer treatment tactics in the past will effect the games player base. I have a hard time giving money to SoE based soley on how i was treated in several games. Hey SoE made their reputation not the paying customers.
agreed and QFT. just b/c the devs say it so it is so? rofl, they lie and lie in order to try and continue to get publicity and potential sales, but they siged with SOE so they lost sales. they are morons.
There is not 1 thread on this whole website that has not been hijacked by you guys.If a player were to ask a question on this site about a SOE game and it was about the game you guys would hijack it im sure.
I find it funny that you doom POTBS from the get go.FLS decided to go with a major publisher and you guys cant beleive it so you trash it without even asking why they would do this.
Instead of:Hmmm i know i dont like SOE so why would this potentially very succesful game that ive been hearing about for the past 2 or 3 years choose them to publish?Perhaps i should find out the reason behind this?
We hear this:OH NOOOOO my god it is doomed for i will NEVER play this game.My money would be better spent in hell!!!!Why oh why would they do this to me!!!
Instead of placing a bit of faith in FLS you just go ahead and doom them from the start.Im really sure they appreciate this as a team that has developed this game over the course of what 5 years?
You SOE haters are starting to lose your voice because most people are sick to death of your same tired whiny little complaints.
Its like the guy you work with that hates his job and walks around bitching all the time.He always says "im getting a new job im out of here by the end of this month!!".Everyone rolls their eyes at him and goes back to work.He never gets a new job and is back the next month repeating the cycle.
If you dont like it dont play it but stop hijacking every thread that has to do with SOE.There are people who play games published and made by SOE that actually enjoy them learn to accept it.
I am so sick of hearing about SOE sucks, they cant suck to bad since EQ2 is one of the best mmorpg's out I think everyone has forgotten this and I was around playing SWG when all that crap happened.
I won't bother line for line, my time is much too valuable and you are obviously just like the rest. Investing too much time in the response would obviously just feed your obsession with green text and it is something my willpower won't and can't allow. Beacuse I can seperate truth from folly in a single click of the post message button.
So I'll make it short and sweet. I'm not a conservative, I'm a realist. Nor would I ignore the meat and reason in a post and go straight for the flame bait. Your point here, as far as I'm concerned, is not to debate the merits of any contractual agreements. Otherwise you would have. Rampant whining, complaining, and half truths have no place in logical assesements. Thats what I compare these cats to, no more, no less. If you want to lump yourself in the same cess pool, go right ahead. I'm glad you have made your position on immigration reform known to your representative, rather I would be. But you see, the majority of Americans don't. So I can hardly beleive that you would. Yea, thats that reverse psycology, looking in the mirror bit. Did I get it right? Hate, not complainers. Hate is a seperate emotion from dissatisfaction. It can be likened to an adrenaline rush, this unbiased hate. It should be checked at every opportunity.
Well, you made the challenge, called people out; I accepted and I see you have nothing but off topic statements and rants to make after being countered.
My points is sticking up for the so-called "haters" and that it would be in the best interests of both SOE and of its affiliates to take pro-active means to mitigate this perceived hate. SOE does have a significant number of dissatisfied customers; that is part of the baggage of this marriage with SOE.
So go ahead and retire from your wounds.
When you're ready to debate on the issues and of your so-called beliefs of "SOE Haters" again, let me know.
And I was looking forward to using my heavy bladed Schlaeger... shucks.
/salute
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Wow......leave the gaming scene for a couple months and come back to all hell breaking loose. Perhaps someone can help me catch up here.
FLS is letting SOE do the bitch work with PotBS, I got that much. It's gonna be on SOEs station pass, I got that too. Sooooo.....does anyone know how SOE makes their dime? They obviously get all the Station Pass money from their subs. Do they get all the subscriber money (including monthlies) and FLS gets the money it costs to purchase the game? Does FLS get a percentage of the monthlies? Any knowledge of the senario floating around?
Appolagise if this has been addressed. Like I said, I'm playing catch up.
On the contrary, there are more and more $OE "haters" all the time, and for good reason. I understand you dont like this, and dont feel people should not like a company based on their terrible rep, but sorry to say people are allowed their opinions on this site and others, just like you are. Its not hijacking, this isnt a love fest for your game. Critical dicussion is allowed.
Originally posted by Opticaleye
You SOE haters are beyond ridiculous. Is this the only thing you think about? There is not 1 thread on this whole website that has not been hijacked by you guys.If a player were to ask a question on this site about a SOE game and it was about the game you guys would hijack it im sure. I find it funny that you doom POTBS from the get go.FLS decided to go with a major publisher and you guys cant beleive it so you trash it without even asking why they would do this. Instead of:Hmmm i know i dont like SOE so why would this potentially very succesful game that ive been hearing about for the past 2 or 3 years choose them to publish?Perhaps i should find out the reason behind this? We hear this:OH NOOOOO my god it is doomed for i will NEVER play this game.My money would be better spent in hell!!!!Why oh why would they do this to me!!! Instead of placing a bit of faith in FLS you just go ahead and doom them from the start.Im really sure they appreciate this as a team that has developed this game over the course of what 5 years? You SOE haters are starting to lose your voice because most people are sick to death of your same tired whiny little complaints. Its like the guy you work with that hates his job and walks around bitching all the time.He always says "im getting a new job im out of here by the end of this month!!".Everyone rolls their eyes at him and goes back to work.He never gets a new job and is back the next month repeating the cycle. If you dont like it dont play it but stop hijacking every thread that has to do with SOE.There are people who play games published and made by SOE that actually enjoy them learn to accept it.
I am so sick of hearing about SOE sucks, they cant suck to bad since EQ2 is one of the best mmorpg's out I think everyone has forgotten this and I was around playing SWG when all that crap happened.
I beg to differ. EQ 2 was a disaster in my opinion. And after 6 months of haing an game issue unresolved with rude customer service reps I gave up on it. If you are sick of hearing critical opinions on games, stop visiting this site, as its a reality here.
Sooooo.....does anyone know how SOE makes their dime? Do they get all the subscriber money (including monthlies) and FLS gets the money it costs to purchase the game? Does FLS get a percentage of the monthlies? Any knowledge of the senario floating around?
Depends on the contract that was negotiated. But from what is know by other publishers is that the publisher will take ownership of the IP and provide about a 10% to 20% revenue to the developer; with the low teen's for first time developers. Royalties are rarely provided.
So in the sense of deciding which publisher to go with for retail distribution, SOE does provide the better offer. Unfortunately SOE has some problems associated to it (as shown around here).
If following "conventional" business models, the publisher (SOE) will obtain a percentage cut from the sales and subscription fees, as well as possible other in-game financial transactions. The percentage I'll take a guess (again a guess) at 35%, based from other publishers and game portals, potential revenue payoff, and maybe with some good negotiating skills involved. But then again, maybe SOE is similar to other retail publishers and has absorbed a significant amount of the percentage cut to off-set costs and still turn a profit.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Comments
Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you have to cry a river on the forums for no reason. I think that more FLS developer interaction with the community is better than having them sit in a corner and not saying anything about the contract at all.
For all of the people whining about this contract, suck it up and go somewhere else - you aren't impressing anybody with your crybaby behavior.
http://www.f13.net/index.php?itemid=561#more
This is a good interview with an ex-sigil employee that will help anyone wishing to educate themselves on the "Vanguard debacle". Some interesting notes:
f13.net: What was SOE's involvement from beginning the partnership up until E3 2006?
Ex-Sigil: No hands-on influence from SOE, only leveraging of SOE assets like testing.
f13.net: How deep did SOE's hands get into it? What was the progression like?
Ex-Sigil: They were hands-off all the way up til today
f13.net: ... are you serious?
Ex-Sigil: SOE lent a few devs to us in the final days, but it was nothing like people think. I think design had 3 people, art 2, and programming 1 from SOE. They let us use their testing dept too somewhat. We felt somewhat reborn I guess, but with a sense of reservation. When the merger happened SOE embraced us, and spent a LOT of money on us right away. It felt really good.
f13.net: What happened in the short time between E3 2006 and Beta?
Ex-Sigil: The dev staff knew the game wasn't ready. Brad set the beta start I think and was completely clueless as to the actual state of the game... not listening to anyone telling him it wasn't ready
f13.net: How was QA treated through the course of development?
Ex-Sigil: QA?
f13.net: QA.
Ex-Sigil: QA was one person up until about November... ONE.
f13.net: What.
Ex-Sigil: 100% serious.
f13.net: What? How? This is an MMOG.
Ex-Sigil: Vanguard had one internal tester for probably 95% of the design cycle.
f13.net: Doesn't the complete and utter failure, in hindsight, seem like a self-fulfilled prophecy though with only one QA member?
Ex-Sigil: The reasons for failure are too numerous to list, but can all be summed up by a lack of management. Brad, for all his faults at least made decisions. So did Jeff. Right or wrong, they took a shot. The people in charge now were so afraid to make the wrong decision that they made no decision at all.
Read the whole thing for more information. You can't use Vanguard's failure as a valid argument against SOE. To do so is simply misguided.
May i ask, What wrong with SOE? They are a great company and there games are great? Beter than i see anywhere else, No one compaires to SOE in my opinion!
Nothing wrong with SOE aqt all and a good move in this case. For all the SOE haters out there I'll dance on your graves now what a total bunch of class 1 muppets.
To not play PoC becuase of SOE is severely misguided and better for all of us who have a semblence of common sense.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
WTF is this? I am no SoE hater...but you've made 1 post...and this is it...SoE is on every aspect of your profile....good lord, if you're gonna shill for SoE, please be more creative about it.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
Don't give the SOE haters another thought. They actually think there's enough of them to make a dent in subscription numbers.
There isn't. People like to THINK there are, but the reality is that most people who are irked by Sony will still give POTBS a try.
That includes me.
I hated Vanguard as well. The fact that SOE was "involved" in their billing, whatever, had nothing to do with why they flopped. Vanguard flopped because Sigil got themselves in too deep, had a flawed vision, and were forced into the Catch 22 of needing to bring in money from an unfinished game.
It absolutely amazes me that more people aren't blaming Sigil for them blowing their own game, seriously.
POTBS is in an entirely different boat, and some people are simply grasping at straws to find an excuse to bash Sony.
If Sony helping them publish their own game and helping them with infrastructure is a big enough reason for you to not play...
Then good riddance, cause you weren't a true fan anyway. Jaded "fans" like those would simply find any excuse to complain about an MMO.
From logistical standpoint, Sony's involvement does nothing but help this game's exposure and give it the best shot it has at succeeding in a mainstream fashion. Be "hardcore anti-Sony" if you want, but that very vocal minority won't carry a game, so I'm not worried about them "refusing to play".
I commend the decision to go with Sony.
But they are. Or rather they was 'cause if they would continue with it arguments usedhere would be lost.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
But they are. Or rather they was 'cause if they would continue with it arguments usedhere would be lost.
And then they would't have anything to cry and be emo over.
/wrists
The number of people who may not be fans of Sony? Sure, 20000 might not be a stretch. I'm one of them. I've played EQ2 after all; I understand the frustration.
The number who'll go so far as to not play any of their games? Far less than 20000. Far less. I'm not going to slap an exact number on it, but the vocal minority always makes themselves appear larger than they are. This really isn't different.
This number you're throwing out isn't going to be more than a few thousand. Drop in the bucket. And I'm talking in total too -- not all of this few thousand would've been interested in POTBS anyway.
Flying Lab's answer to this concern by the way comes from the fact that they read online forums, which by human nature is filled with more negative than positive things. Beta testers read forums -- the majority of people who play online though, hardly ever post to them.
Hasn't it ever occurred to you that Vanguard might just be a bad game? The majority of people will decide not to play a game because it isn't any fun - not because of the publisher or developer. I don't really care who is in charge of marketing a game I play just as long as it is fun.
You are really just making yourself look stupid. Telling us SOE "unofficially" owns PotBS is probably one of the worst arguments you can make... Since it isn't true. If you are so concerned about SOE lying, I suggest you keep your lies to a minimum too, otherwise you just look like a hypocrite.
People cannot blame SOE for ruining Vanguard.
Vanguard was a bad game from the start and Brad is a silly person from the start. He did good in the past and his game clearly proved that he has never managed to follow the evolution of both technology and communities. When Sigil was about to die, SOE decided to aquire vanguard and they are now trying to make it better.
Still, Vanguard was a bad design and concept from the start.
Pirates is a good game from the start and pretty much everything that the devs promised has made it to the game so far.
SOE has good servers, a fine patching system, easy to use billing systems and others. Stop hating them for being a big corporation, you're in 2007 and big corporations are not all evil. Do you all think that an evil guy is sitting in his lab thinking about world domination when they aquire a new game to publish?
So yes, the recent saga of Vanguard did hurt SOE again in reputation but if you document yourself closely, SOE is not actually the ones responsible for that. It's all about Sigil not doing things right. How the hell do you make a game so un-optimized for a computer when you're using the U3 engine...
It's simple like that.
Exactly. It's all about a company that made a game they wanted to be able to "look great on new computers years from now", but never thought about the road to get there.
I don't know what the SOE-haters want -- a digital-download only game? They want Flying Lab to lose their IP rights? *shrug*
So i suppose cause some FLS Dev says so it makes it true? I recall Brad from sigil having a similar post saying basically the same thing. SoE said the same things right before the CU.. Then allmost word for word when the NGE was announced. Well i suppose that means that you cant take E-words as the gospel truth. The truth will come when the statement is proven or disproven through actions.
Its about the money no matter what Pr spin is given. I dont blame them for wanting to better their status as a developer. But why SoE? Knowing that their current reputation with gamers is rocky at best. I suppose we shall see in a few months how good/bad this move was. I hate to be negative but due to SoE's customer treatment tactics in the past will effect the games player base. I have a hard time giving money to SoE based soley on how i was treated in several games. Hey SoE made their reputation not the paying customers.
HERPES!!!! Dont catch it.
playing eq2 and two worlds
So PotBS will be losing a small number of potential customers who fall into the following categories (one or more):
1) People who will be scarred for life if the game does not turn out well.
2) People who compare a failed attempt to improve a game to actions of pure evil or terrorism.
3) People who continually post lies as fact and refuse to read or just ignore facts that harm their viewpoint.
4) People who twist even positive actions (SOE ---rescued--- Vanguard, not destroyed it!) into some great act of evil.
5) People who honestly believe a handful of people on a forum represent a massive customer base that should be favored over retaining ownership of the IP or the customer base of EVERYONE WHO WALKS INTO A STORE.
6) People who seem otherwise like fine human beings, but for some reason, have no problem with lumping themselves in with, and standing beside the people in groups 1-5. If you are a person in group #6, please reexamine, set down the kool-aid, and rejoin the rest of us on the slightly less crazy side of the fence.
It seems to me that losing most of those people is an argument FOR signing with SOE, not an argument against it. A community without people who treat game companies as gods and devils, and let games embitter them for years, is a community I'm more likely to enjoy.
Can we get Conan and Warhammer over to SOE too?
OMG this thread was started 2 days ago and has 448 posts in it!
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
The number of people who may not be fans of Sony? Sure, 20000 might not be a stretch. I'm one of them. I've played EQ2 after all; I understand the frustration.
The number who'll go so far as to not play any of their games? Far less than 20000. Far less. I'm not going to slap an exact number on it, but the vocal minority always makes themselves appear larger than they are. This really isn't different.
This number you're throwing out isn't going to be more than a few thousand. Drop in the bucket. And I'm talking in total too -- not all of this few thousand would've been interested in POTBS anyway.
Flying Lab's answer to this concern by the way comes from the fact that they read online forums, which by human nature is filled with more negative than positive things. Beta testers read forums -- the majority of people who play online though, hardly ever post to them.
well to you, you think the market of mmo players is in the 100k marks or near that. in reality its a huge business. millions upon millons of players have been screwed by SOE..negative publicity is now being brought upon POTBS because of this very poor decision. so in fact that will hurt the game.. as simple as i can put it
agreed and QFT. just b/c the devs say it so it is so? rofl, they lie and lie in order to try and continue to get publicity and potential sales, but they siged with SOE so they lost sales. they are morons.
You SOE haters are beyond ridiculous.
Is this the only thing you think about?
There is not 1 thread on this whole website that has not been hijacked by you guys.If a player were to ask a question on this site about a SOE game and it was about the game you guys would hijack it im sure.
I find it funny that you doom POTBS from the get go.FLS decided to go with a major publisher and you guys cant beleive it so you trash it without even asking why they would do this.
Instead of:Hmmm i know i dont like SOE so why would this potentially very succesful game that ive been hearing about for the past 2 or 3 years choose them to publish?Perhaps i should find out the reason behind this?
We hear this:OH NOOOOO my god it is doomed for i will NEVER play this game.My money would be better spent in hell!!!!Why oh why would they do this to me!!!
Instead of placing a bit of faith in FLS you just go ahead and doom them from the start.Im really sure they appreciate this as a team that has developed this game over the course of what 5 years?
You SOE haters are starting to lose your voice because most people are sick to death of your same tired whiny little complaints.
Its like the guy you work with that hates his job and walks around bitching all the time.He always says "im getting a new job im out of here by the end of this month!!".Everyone rolls their eyes at him and goes back to work.He never gets a new job and is back the next month repeating the cycle.
If you dont like it dont play it but stop hijacking every thread that has to do with SOE.There are people who play games published and made by SOE that actually enjoy them learn to accept it.
What is your physical limit?
I am so sick of hearing about SOE sucks, they cant suck to bad since EQ2 is one of the best mmorpg's out I think everyone has forgotten this and I was around playing SWG when all that crap happened.
My points is sticking up for the so-called "haters" and that it would be in the best interests of both SOE and of its affiliates to take pro-active means to mitigate this perceived hate. SOE does have a significant number of dissatisfied customers; that is part of the baggage of this marriage with SOE.
So go ahead and retire from your wounds.
When you're ready to debate on the issues and of your so-called beliefs of "SOE Haters" again, let me know.
And I was looking forward to using my heavy bladed Schlaeger... shucks.
/salute
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Wow......leave the gaming scene for a couple months and come back to all hell breaking loose. Perhaps someone can help me catch up here.
FLS is letting SOE do the bitch work with PotBS, I got that much. It's gonna be on SOEs station pass, I got that too. Sooooo.....does anyone know how SOE makes their dime? They obviously get all the Station Pass money from their subs. Do they get all the subscriber money (including monthlies) and FLS gets the money it costs to purchase the game? Does FLS get a percentage of the monthlies? Any knowledge of the senario floating around?
Appolagise if this has been addressed. Like I said, I'm playing catch up.
http://www.straightdope.com/
On the contrary, there are more and more $OE "haters" all the time, and for good reason. I understand you dont like this, and dont feel people should not like a company based on their terrible rep, but sorry to say people are allowed their opinions on this site and others, just like you are. Its not hijacking, this isnt a love fest for your game. Critical dicussion is allowed.
I beg to differ. EQ 2 was a disaster in my opinion. And after 6 months of haing an game issue unresolved with rude customer service reps I gave up on it. If you are sick of hearing critical opinions on games, stop visiting this site, as its a reality here.
Depends on the contract that was negotiated. But from what is know by other publishers is that the publisher will take ownership of the IP and provide about a 10% to 20% revenue to the developer; with the low teen's for first time developers. Royalties are rarely provided.
So in the sense of deciding which publisher to go with for retail distribution, SOE does provide the better offer. Unfortunately SOE has some problems associated to it (as shown around here).
If following "conventional" business models, the publisher (SOE) will obtain a percentage cut from the sales and subscription fees, as well as possible other in-game financial transactions. The percentage I'll take a guess (again a guess) at 35%, based from other publishers and game portals, potential revenue payoff, and maybe with some good negotiating skills involved. But then again, maybe SOE is similar to other retail publishers and has absorbed a significant amount of the percentage cut to off-set costs and still turn a profit.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.