Some interesting information about the great Canadian Care:
In June 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled in Chaoulli v. Quebec (Attorney General) that Quebec's prohibition against private health insurance for medically necessary services laws was unconstitutional, potentially opening the door to much more private sector participation in the health system. Justices Beverley McLachlin, Jack Major, Michel Bastarache and Marie Deschamps found for the majority. "Access to a waiting list is not access to health care," wrote Chief Justice Beverly McLachlin.
Also:
About 30% of Canadians' health care is paid for through the private sector. This mostly goes towards services not covered or only partially covered by Medicare such as prescription drugs, dentistry and optometry. Many Canadians have private health insurance, often through their employers, that cover these expenses. There are also large private entities that can buy priority access to medical services in Canada, such as WCB in BC.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
The former Italian Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi, 70, has undergone heart surgery in the United States.
His party Forza Italia said the operation, carried out in Cleveland, Ohio, was necessary to correct Mr Berlusconi's irregular heart rhythm.
His heart problems emerged last month when he collapsed at a political rally.
Italian media suggested he had gone to the US to be fitted with a pacemaker. The surgeon confirmed that the surgery was successful, Forza Italia said.
Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi sent a message of goodwill to his rival.
"Dear Silvio, I am relieved to know that the operation that you have undergone in these hours in the United States has been successfully completed," it said, according to a text released by his office to Associated Press.
Mr Berlusconi, who is leader of the centre-right opposition and Italy's richest man, admitted last month that he should "slow down".
He made the comments after leaving hospital, where he spent three days after collapsing during a speech he was making to his party in Tuscany.
Doctors said they detected an irregular heartbeat.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
A large percentage of the population say they would consider using private health care to skip lengthy NHS waiting lists.
Research by the Consumers' Association revealed that four in 10 people would think about going private to jump long queues, even though 84% of them had no private medical insurance to fall back on.
Though many people were happy with the treatment that they received from the NHS, nearly a third of those questioned said they did not believe there would be a free health service in a decade's time.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Another great thing from France's Health care system:
The fee is based on a national fee schedule set by the NHI. The fees are tightly restrained and are the main method of cost control. As a
result, average physician income is one-third the level of U.S. physicians. However, certain physicians—mainly specialists— are given the right to bill the patient extra for services.
And so:
In addition to NHI, 90% of the population obtains supplemental insurance to cover other benefits and perks.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
18000 Americans in the United States die a YEAR due to no health coverage.
The health care system in the USA is a FOR PROFIT model. Therefore, the price of drugs are HIGHER. The price of care is HIGHER. The cost of insurance is HIGHER. The quantity of care provided is LESS.
----- WoW and fast food = commercial successes. I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
18000 Americans in the United States die a YEAR due to no health coverage.
The health care system in the USA is a FOR PROFIT model. Therefore, the price of drugs are HIGHER. The price of care is HIGHER. The cost of insurance is HIGHER. The quantity of care provided is LESS.
No answer to what I posted huh? Not going to refute the Canadian Justice who said that access to a waiting list does not equal universal healthcare? What about the Italian Prime Minister coming to Cleveland for health care? What about the French needing extra insurance on top of their "free" universal insurance and then on top of it capping Doctor's salaries to well below US levels of income?
I guess none of that matters...
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Well, I can't weigh in on all of this, but drugs I can indeed weigh in on.
The price of drugs in the US is astronomical because of generics. During the 70's the FDA placed limits on drug patents and allowed generic companies to produce bioidentical drugs after a patent was up, without incuring the cost of research. Essentially the reverse-engineer a drug, and it's legal. That was the birth of the brand/generic divide. How is this relevant?
Well, before then a company could invest and research a drug, and reliably market it long term. If the drug was useful profit was assured, which is important because such research is expensive. Now, there is a cap. When you begin researching a drug, you must patent it to ensure that no one can pursue your path of research and beat you to developing the drug you're interested in. As soon as you patent it, the clock begins ticking. Now, you have to research it, get approval, and begin selling it. So, once it actually gets to market you've usually got around 10 years or less to make money before generic companies can start making it. Once a generic is released, your profits will plummet.
Now, as I said research is expensive, and you only have a tiny window in which to make money. So, you have to charge alot for your new brand name drug....a whole lot. I'll give the example of Xanax. It's an anti-anxiety medication. When the generics were released, within a few months the generics had lowered their prices to about a tenth of the brand name, and still dropping. The brand name manufacturer had to keep the price so horribly high because they have that tiny window in which to make money.
You can see a steady rise in drug prices since the late seventies to where we are today, and it all traces back to the generics laws. Because the government wanted to allow other companies to have a fair shot at making a drug someone else had put the effort to create, the brand name companies have to charge exorbitant prices while they can, because their profits and chance to make up research costs will vanish. So, the innovators who create drugs are punished, to give all companies a 'fair' shot. Before, drugs were reasonable in the US because the generic concern was not so intense, there was no competetive threat.
So, strange as it sounds, the reason for high drug prices is generic companies, not the pricey brand name drugs.
Originally posted by ixontes Why should I be taxed (pay for) someone else's health care?
Sadly my taxes had to pay for some of you people's failed education. Here's a clue...if you pay into a health care insurance program, you are already paying for someone elses health care. That is how health insurance works. So it's not called a 'tax', but it is a tax nonetheless. When you're not sick, someone else is using the money you paid to seek medical help.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Originally posted by ixontes Why should I be taxed (pay for) someone else's health care?
Sadly my taxes had to pay for some of you people's failed education. Here's a clue...if you pay into a health care insurance program, you are already paying for someone elses health care. That is how health insurance works. So it's not called a 'tax', but it is a tax nonetheless. When you're not sick, someone else is using the money you paid to seek medical help.
The difference being that you have a choice. Insurance is a service purchased, a tax is a tribute taken. What ixontes is saying is, he would rather have that choice.
Americans would rather crap them selves with pills like ALLI then to exericse or eat well, i know some people have medical issues that cause them to be overweight but lets face it most of america is just fat and lazy.
If only i could find a troll with a tin foil hat. =(
Americans are stressed, depressed, and overworked; those factors contribute to heart disease, high blood pressure (US Number 1 Killer), and obesity. Americans have a work like a warhorse lifestyle to get "rich." Ha ! ha! haha
----- WoW and fast food = commercial successes. I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
Don't like Michael Moore, and don't agree with 99% of his crap.
I do agree ALOT of things in America are broken, and healthcare is one of them. I work, pay taxes, pay for insurance, and I still can still bearely afford basic healthcare and dental needs for my family. For the average working joe (single income family of four in my case) the prescriptions and co-pays and non-coverage items KILL me. Add to that the frustration of dealing with an insurance company on occasion...and people wonder why we have workplace shootings and so much violence in america!
All the while the Doctors are driving thier Mercedes to work and golfing on Wednesdays...
Not saying capitalism is bad (GOD BLESS AMERICA!), but there needs to be compassion and humanity involved somewhere. People should get what they NEED somehow (food, shelter, medical attention) in the greatest industrialized nation on the planet?
One note about Michael Moore that I would like to add. He does play fast and loose with his creative editting. He likes to claim that he doesn't but you could tell he did it in the Bowling for Columbine movie. He pieced together the particular parts of a Charleton Heston speech skipping whole paragraphs in between by fading the voice out and switching to something else. He uses the speech transcript to show that everything that was said in the Movie was in fact said by Mr Heston, but of course it also shows that the tone of the Speech in the Movie is completely different then how it was in reality.
I actually liked Bowling for Columbine though and I am sure I will like Sicko. But he is not really a Documentary film maker. He has an agenda and it shows in his movies. Which I think is fine, but I wish his movies would be in different category so real documentary directors who were following the rules could fairly compete.
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Cabe, you are unable to refute any of the things I said. Any of the basic statistics I gave.
You Sir, are one of the worst debaters I have ever seen. You let your enemy take the moral high ground. You let your enemy score moral points, factual points and you don't even read properly what proof your enemy is providing.
Luckily this isn't a debate, but a friendly discussion.
Things I have proven without a doubt so far.
The French health care system is superior on all levels to the American system.
The French health care system is cheaper on all levels than the American system.
A good and social (not socialist) health care system makes the population more productive.
None of the biased and purely subjective opinions you provided us with are able to refutre my objective and reliable sources.
In reaction you decided to question the concept of a basic human right, health care. I'm afraid you're a few hundred years too late with doing that.
Even when we discard all humanity we can conclude that non-privatized health care costs society less in the long term.
The only reason why you continue to defy all logic and are unwilling to accept the fact that you are wrong is originating from some kind of blind patriotism. The same kind of blind patriotism that will cause (if not already causing) a stagnation and a growing decadence in the American thinking and being which will eventually might cause the very downfall of your nation.
I salute your couragous countrymen and women who are brave enough to keep an open mind and do what made America great, which is to ADAPT.
I'll be the first to admit that Michael Moore's Documentarys are not the kind you find on Nova or even the History Channel. However I also strongly believe that they are more fact than fiction, and that almost every documentary ever made has had motive behind it. I saw Sicko in theaters this previous weekend. I also saw Bowling for Columbine and Fahrenheit 9/11 in theaters when they came out. I liked all 3 and very much respect Michael Moore as a filmaker. Out of the recent 3, Sicko had the most impact on me. This is probably because it was about an issue I wasn't quite sure on. I always liked the sound of Nationalized Health Insurance, but I also made sure to hear the other side who brought up points about longer waits for transplants and limited operations per year. After seeing Sicko I've decided I would much prefer a Nationalized Health Insurance or at least anything better than Private Health Insurance Companies and HMOs. However I also recognize a Nationalized Health Insurance is probably not in the cards for us anytime soon. For those who enjoyed his other movies Sicko is not the funniest, though it has its funny parts of course, but it edged out Fahrenheit 9/11 on saddest and Columbine on most informative.
please, I'm willing to bet Sicko has more fiction in it than the new Harry Potter movie.
18000 Americans in the United States die a YEAR due to no health coverage.
The health care system in the USA is a FOR PROFIT model. Therefore, the price of drugs are HIGHER. The price of care is HIGHER. The cost of insurance is HIGHER. The quantity of care provided is LESS.
No answer to what I posted huh? Not going to refute the Canadian Justice who said that access to a waiting list does not equal universal healthcare? What about the Italian Prime Minister coming to Cleveland for health care? What about the French needing extra insurance on top of their "free" universal insurance and then on top of it capping Doctor's salaries to well below US levels of income?
I guess none of that matters...
Mhhhhh............
As far as I know we are talking about general healthcare, while you are talking about isolated cases referring to rich people that can afford the best of the treatement.
The fact is that US is cutting edge in research therefore in US you will find usually the best treatment if you can afford it.
Although, the fact that US has the best treatments doesn't make it the best healthcare system as a whole.
As someone pointed out already, if you are poor you die in US, the treatment you gonna receive is proportional to the money you are willing to spend, that doesn't make it a good health care.
In Italy the standards are high and best of all healthcare is free, therefore everyone in Italy can take advantage of a good healthcare, either you are poor or rich.
But obviously if you really can afford it and you want the best and cutting edge treatement US is still a good bet, even for foreigners.
Cabe, you are unable to refute any of the things I said. Any of the basic statistics I gave.
You Sir, are one of the worst debaters I have ever seen. You let your enemy take the moral high ground. You let your enemy score moral points, factual points and you don't even read properly what proof your enemy is providing.
Luckily this isn't a debate, but a friendly discussion.
Things I have proven without a doubt so far.
The French health care system is superior on all levels to the American system. The French health care system is cheaper on all levels than the American system. A good and social (not socialist) health care system makes the population more productive.
None of the biased and purely subjective opinions you provided us with are able to refutre my objective and reliable sources. In reaction you decided to question the concept of a basic human right, health care. I'm afraid you're a few hundred years too late with doing that. Even when we discard all humanity we can conclude that non-privatized health care costs society less in the long term.
The only reason why you continue to defy all logic and are unwilling to accept the fact that you are wrong is originating from some kind of blind patriotism. The same kind of blind patriotism that will cause (if not already causing) a stagnation and a growing decadence in the American thinking and being which will eventually might cause the very downfall of your nation.
I salute your couragous countrymen and women who are brave enough to keep an open mind and do what made America great, which is to ADAPT.
You use a source that states that America's healthcare system is ranked 37. Even though the Patient satisfaction by that same source rates it at number 1. So it is not better then America's Healthcare. Access and Cost is better yes, but not the actual healthcare itself. So yes I would rather have higher quality healthcare but not have everyone have access to it, then lower quality healthcare and everyone have it. The cost goes along with having higher quality care. So once again your suposed numbers do not tell the whole story you are using the numbers that suit your arguement and that is all.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
18000 Americans in the United States die a YEAR due to no health coverage.
The health care system in the USA is a FOR PROFIT model. Therefore, the price of drugs are HIGHER. The price of care is HIGHER. The cost of insurance is HIGHER. The quantity of care provided is LESS.
No answer to what I posted huh? Not going to refute the Canadian Justice who said that access to a waiting list does not equal universal healthcare? What about the Italian Prime Minister coming to Cleveland for health care? What about the French needing extra insurance on top of their "free" universal insurance and then on top of it capping Doctor's salaries to well below US levels of income?
I guess none of that matters...
Mhhhhh............
As far as I know we are talking about general healthcare, while you are talking about isolated cases referring to rich people that can afford the best of the treatement.
The fact is that US is cutting edge in research therefore in US you will find usually the best treatment if you can afford it.
Although, the fact that US has the best treatments doesn't make it the best healthcare system as a whole.
As someone pointed out already, if you are poor you die in US, the treatment you gonna receive is proportional to the money you are willing to spend, that doesn't make it a good health care.
In Italy the standards are high and best of all healthcare is free, therefore everyone in Italy can take advantage of a good healthcare, either you are poor or rich.
But obviously if you really can afford it and you want the best and cutting edge treatement US is still a good bet, even for foreigners.
I don't see any contraddiction in this.
Umm how about access to lower quality healthcare doesn't make the healthcare better. I would rather have higher quality care and not necessarily have access to everyone, then lower quality care for all. That coupled with the fact that Patient Satisfaction is rated highest in the US of all countries. That does tell something. IT shows that while we need to try to improve upon the system to get access to more people, private healthcare in fact is better quality then national healthcare that these other countries have.
And it isn't only the rich that have good healthcare. 83% of Americans have access to the world's best healthcare.
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Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Again, you are unable to refute my arguments. You are unable to find a constrctive backing of your so called proof and you are unable to make a solid case against universal health care.
The "customer satisfaction" argument has been defeated by someone else.
some things in life should never be "for profit" health care in one of them things It's that simple the health care as a whole world wide should be free and paid for by doing the same as we do here in the UK.
Again, you are unable to refute my arguments. You are unable to find a constrctive backing of your so called proof and you are unable to make a solid case against universal health care.
The "customer satisfaction" argument has been defeated by someone else.
No it hasn't. You state that it is better to have lower quality healthcare for all. I state that it is better to have higher quality healthcare for the majority.
The case from the Canadian Supreme court was about a 70ish year old man that was in constant pain and needed a hip replacement. He wanted to pay for it himself because it was going to be a long long wait. The government told him that was illegal. The supreme court justice stated that making it illegal was unconstitutional and that access to a waiting list did not equal medical care.
I showed that 4 out of 10 British people would give up their "free" universal care to instead join a private plan so they could get better care.
I showed the the former prime minister of Italy (the World's 2nd highest rated healthcare system) travelled to the US for his healthcare because it was better. Cleveland was better then the best hospitals in all of Italy.
I showed that Doctors in france make significantly less money then their US counterparts. Is it any wonder that their patient satisfaction is lower then the US?
So once again I would rather have 83% of the country have access to the World's best medical care, then 100% have mediocre medical care.
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Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Comments
Well, that is fine, Cabe.
It is still cheaper, and EVERYONE is still covered in France compared to the USA. You get the same care, but more and at a lower cost.
All industrialized, advanced countries understand --and they are capitalist and democratic-- that national health care does work.
-----
WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
Some interesting information about the great Canadian Care:
In June 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled in Chaoulli v. Quebec (Attorney General) that Quebec's prohibition against private health insurance for medically necessary services laws was unconstitutional, potentially opening the door to much more private sector participation in the health system. Justices Beverley McLachlin, Jack Major, Michel Bastarache and Marie Deschamps found for the majority. "Access to a waiting list is not access to health care," wrote Chief Justice Beverly McLachlin.
Also:
About 30% of Canadians' health care is paid for through the private sector. This mostly goes towards services not covered or only partially covered by Medicare such as prescription drugs, dentistry and optometry. Many Canadians have private health insurance, often through their employers, that cover these expenses. There are also large private entities that can buy priority access to medical services in Canada, such as WCB in BC.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Italian Healthcare system?:
The former Italian Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi, 70, has undergone heart surgery in the United States.
His party Forza Italia said the operation, carried out in Cleveland, Ohio, was necessary to correct Mr Berlusconi's irregular heart rhythm.
His heart problems emerged last month when he collapsed at a political rally.
Italian media suggested he had gone to the US to be fitted with a pacemaker. The surgeon confirmed that the surgery was successful, Forza Italia said.
Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi sent a message of goodwill to his rival.
"Dear Silvio, I am relieved to know that the operation that you have undergone in these hours in the United States has been successfully completed," it said, according to a text released by his office to Associated Press.
Mr Berlusconi, who is leader of the centre-right opposition and Italy's richest man, admitted last month that he should "slow down".
He made the comments after leaving hospital, where he spent three days after collapsing during a speech he was making to his party in Tuscany.
Doctors said they detected an irregular heartbeat.
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LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
From the BBC:
A large percentage of the population say they would consider using private health care to skip lengthy NHS waiting lists.
Research by the Consumers' Association revealed that four in 10 people would think about going private to jump long queues, even though 84% of them had no private medical insurance to fall back on.
Though many people were happy with the treatment that they received from the NHS, nearly a third of those questioned said they did not believe there would be a free health service in a decade's time.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Another great thing from France's Health care system:
The fee is based on a national fee schedule set by the NHI. The fees are tightly restrained and are the main method of cost control. As a
result, average physician income is one-third the level of U.S. physicians. However, certain physicians—mainly specialists— are given the right to bill the patient extra for services.
And so:
In addition to NHI, 90% of the population obtains supplemental insurance to cover other benefits and perks.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
18000 Americans in the United States die a YEAR due to no health coverage.
The health care system in the USA is a FOR PROFIT model. Therefore, the price of drugs are HIGHER. The price of care is HIGHER. The cost of insurance is HIGHER. The quantity of care provided is LESS.
-----
WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
I guess none of that matters...
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Well, I can't weigh in on all of this, but drugs I can indeed weigh in on.
The price of drugs in the US is astronomical because of generics. During the 70's the FDA placed limits on drug patents and allowed generic companies to produce bioidentical drugs after a patent was up, without incuring the cost of research. Essentially the reverse-engineer a drug, and it's legal. That was the birth of the brand/generic divide. How is this relevant?
Well, before then a company could invest and research a drug, and reliably market it long term. If the drug was useful profit was assured, which is important because such research is expensive. Now, there is a cap. When you begin researching a drug, you must patent it to ensure that no one can pursue your path of research and beat you to developing the drug you're interested in. As soon as you patent it, the clock begins ticking. Now, you have to research it, get approval, and begin selling it. So, once it actually gets to market you've usually got around 10 years or less to make money before generic companies can start making it. Once a generic is released, your profits will plummet.
Now, as I said research is expensive, and you only have a tiny window in which to make money. So, you have to charge alot for your new brand name drug....a whole lot. I'll give the example of Xanax. It's an anti-anxiety medication. When the generics were released, within a few months the generics had lowered their prices to about a tenth of the brand name, and still dropping. The brand name manufacturer had to keep the price so horribly high because they have that tiny window in which to make money.
You can see a steady rise in drug prices since the late seventies to where we are today, and it all traces back to the generics laws. Because the government wanted to allow other companies to have a fair shot at making a drug someone else had put the effort to create, the brand name companies have to charge exorbitant prices while they can, because their profits and chance to make up research costs will vanish. So, the innovators who create drugs are punished, to give all companies a 'fair' shot. Before, drugs were reasonable in the US because the generic concern was not so intense, there was no competetive threat.
So, strange as it sounds, the reason for high drug prices is generic companies, not the pricey brand name drugs.
Sadly my taxes had to pay for some of you people's failed education. Here's a clue...if you pay into a health care insurance program, you are already paying for someone elses health care. That is how health insurance works. So it's not called a 'tax', but it is a tax nonetheless. When you're not sick, someone else is using the money you paid to seek medical help.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Sadly my taxes had to pay for some of you people's failed education. Here's a clue...if you pay into a health care insurance program, you are already paying for someone elses health care. That is how health insurance works. So it's not called a 'tax', but it is a tax nonetheless. When you're not sick, someone else is using the money you paid to seek medical help.
The difference being that you have a choice. Insurance is a service purchased, a tax is a tribute taken. What ixontes is saying is, he would rather have that choice.
The funny thing about the rankings of the world health care is that even though America ranks 37th overall we rank #1 in patience satisfaction.
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Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Sure. For patients (not patience, Cabe, lol) that can access health care. MILLIONS cannot access it; they cannot participate in the poll!
-----
WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
To say that infant mortality and average life expectancy are directly related to how well the health care works is a joke.
Please first read this article on infant mortality http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/060924/2healy.htm
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Now lets talk about adults
Here' the top killersof a population in the US
Source: U.S. National Center for Health Statistics, Health, United States, 2005.
Main cause of Diseases of the heart, weight issues. Time for some fun facts
Sixty-five percent of Americans are overweight or obese. (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/22/sunday/main711140.shtml)
Lets look at obesity levels now to day France has one of the lowest obesity levels in Europe: 12% of the population, vs. 23% for Britain. (Some 31% of the population in the U.S. is considered obese.) 2005 data http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/apr2005/nf20050419_5664_db089.htm?chan=gb
Oh and one last fun fact for the day.
Americans would rather crap them selves with pills like ALLI then to exericse or eat well, i know some people have medical issues that cause them to be overweight but lets face it most of america is just fat and lazy.
If only i could find a troll with a tin foil hat. =(
Americans are stressed, depressed, and overworked; those factors contribute to heart disease, high blood pressure (US Number 1 Killer), and obesity. Americans have a work like a warhorse lifestyle to get "rich." Ha ! ha! haha
-----
WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
Don't like Michael Moore, and don't agree with 99% of his crap.
I do agree ALOT of things in America are broken, and healthcare is one of them. I work, pay taxes, pay for insurance, and I still can still bearely afford basic healthcare and dental needs for my family. For the average working joe (single income family of four in my case) the prescriptions and co-pays and non-coverage items KILL me. Add to that the frustration of dealing with an insurance company on occasion...and people wonder why we have workplace shootings and so much violence in america!
All the while the Doctors are driving thier Mercedes to work and golfing on Wednesdays...
Not saying capitalism is bad (GOD BLESS AMERICA!), but there needs to be compassion and humanity involved somewhere. People should get what they NEED somehow (food, shelter, medical attention) in the greatest industrialized nation on the planet?
I would still love to see someone answer about what the Justice from Canada said about Canadian Health Care.
Or why an Italian with the Worlds what 2nd? best healthcare system would travel to Cleveland for heart surgery?
Any answers would be appreciated guys.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
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One note about Michael Moore that I would like to add. He does play fast and loose with his creative editting. He likes to claim that he doesn't but you could tell he did it in the Bowling for Columbine movie. He pieced together the particular parts of a Charleton Heston speech skipping whole paragraphs in between by fading the voice out and switching to something else. He uses the speech transcript to show that everything that was said in the Movie was in fact said by Mr Heston, but of course it also shows that the tone of the Speech in the Movie is completely different then how it was in reality.
I actually liked Bowling for Columbine though and I am sure I will like Sicko. But he is not really a Documentary film maker. He has an agenda and it shows in his movies. Which I think is fine, but I wish his movies would be in different category so real documentary directors who were following the rules could fairly compete.
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Cabe, you are unable to refute any of the things I said. Any of the basic statistics I gave.
You Sir, are one of the worst debaters I have ever seen. You let your enemy take the moral high ground. You let your enemy score moral points, factual points and you don't even read properly what proof your enemy is providing.
Luckily this isn't a debate, but a friendly discussion.
Things I have proven without a doubt so far.
None of the biased and purely subjective opinions you provided us with are able to refutre my objective and reliable sources.
In reaction you decided to question the concept of a basic human right, health care. I'm afraid you're a few hundred years too late with doing that.
Even when we discard all humanity we can conclude that non-privatized health care costs society less in the long term.
The only reason why you continue to defy all logic and are unwilling to accept the fact that you are wrong is originating from some kind of blind patriotism. The same kind of blind patriotism that will cause (if not already causing) a stagnation and a growing decadence in the American thinking and being which will eventually might cause the very downfall of your nation.
I salute your couragous countrymen and women who are brave enough to keep an open mind and do what made America great, which is to ADAPT.
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please, I'm willing to bet Sicko has more fiction in it than the new Harry Potter movie.
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I guess none of that matters...
Mhhhhh............
As far as I know we are talking about general healthcare, while you are talking about isolated cases referring to rich people that can afford the best of the treatement.
The fact is that US is cutting edge in research therefore in US you will find usually the best treatment if you can afford it.
Although, the fact that US has the best treatments doesn't make it the best healthcare system as a whole.
As someone pointed out already, if you are poor you die in US, the treatment you gonna receive is proportional to the money you are willing to spend, that doesn't make it a good health care.
In Italy the standards are high and best of all healthcare is free, therefore everyone in Italy can take advantage of a good healthcare, either you are poor or rich.
But obviously if you really can afford it and you want the best and cutting edge treatement US is still a good bet, even for foreigners.
I don't see any contraddiction in this.
You use a source that states that America's healthcare system is ranked 37. Even though the Patient satisfaction by that same source rates it at number 1. So it is not better then America's Healthcare. Access and Cost is better yes, but not the actual healthcare itself. So yes I would rather have higher quality healthcare but not have everyone have access to it, then lower quality healthcare and everyone have it. The cost goes along with having higher quality care. So once again your suposed numbers do not tell the whole story you are using the numbers that suit your arguement and that is all.
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I guess none of that matters...
Umm how about access to lower quality healthcare doesn't make the healthcare better. I would rather have higher quality care and not necessarily have access to everyone, then lower quality care for all. That coupled with the fact that Patient Satisfaction is rated highest in the US of all countries. That does tell something. IT shows that while we need to try to improve upon the system to get access to more people, private healthcare in fact is better quality then national healthcare that these other countries have.Mhhhhh............
As far as I know we are talking about general healthcare, while you are talking about isolated cases referring to rich people that can afford the best of the treatement.
The fact is that US is cutting edge in research therefore in US you will find usually the best treatment if you can afford it.
Although, the fact that US has the best treatments doesn't make it the best healthcare system as a whole.
As someone pointed out already, if you are poor you die in US, the treatment you gonna receive is proportional to the money you are willing to spend, that doesn't make it a good health care.
In Italy the standards are high and best of all healthcare is free, therefore everyone in Italy can take advantage of a good healthcare, either you are poor or rich.
But obviously if you really can afford it and you want the best and cutting edge treatement US is still a good bet, even for foreigners.
I don't see any contraddiction in this.
And it isn't only the rich that have good healthcare. 83% of Americans have access to the world's best healthcare.
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Again, you are unable to refute my arguments. You are unable to find a constrctive backing of your so called proof and you are unable to make a solid case against universal health care.
The "customer satisfaction" argument has been defeated by someone else.
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some things in life should never be "for profit" health care in one of them things It's that simple the health care as a whole world wide should be free and paid for by doing the same as we do here in the UK.
Tin Foil hats dont work.. its all a conspiracy
The case from the Canadian Supreme court was about a 70ish year old man that was in constant pain and needed a hip replacement. He wanted to pay for it himself because it was going to be a long long wait. The government told him that was illegal. The supreme court justice stated that making it illegal was unconstitutional and that access to a waiting list did not equal medical care.
I showed that 4 out of 10 British people would give up their "free" universal care to instead join a private plan so they could get better care.
I showed the the former prime minister of Italy (the World's 2nd highest rated healthcare system) travelled to the US for his healthcare because it was better. Cleveland was better then the best hospitals in all of Italy.
I showed that Doctors in france make significantly less money then their US counterparts. Is it any wonder that their patient satisfaction is lower then the US?
So once again I would rather have 83% of the country have access to the World's best medical care, then 100% have mediocre medical care.
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