AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Well I'll be having a high perception and standing my ground.
Everyone whinging that it doesn't work in a game thats not even out and no one has any idea how balanced it is - even at release when it comes - this makes me laugh. Yea NERF the rogue already rofl.
AoC's classes are pretty diverse, and already looking at some of the abilities and spells that some have im sure there will be decent counters. I have confidence balancing is something that can come along way to fruition at release.
Originally posted by FE|Tachyon Originally posted by SilverPhenix Originally posted by FE|Tachyon
Grow Up. Disagreeing with somebody isn't the same as petty insults. I can disagree with somebody without saying "Go back to WoW"... I don't play WoW, haven't for months. I started the thread to get the community's oppinion, not " STEALTH IS OVERPOWERED, IT SHOULD BE REMOVED" for a game that isn't even out yet. When in fact the AoC offical forums shows that more people want to play rogue charactors then any other type. Removeing stealth seems to hardly be an option. Removeing something because a very small portion of a community doesn't like stealth for reasons they cannot explain, other then they don't like it. I guess when you throw a net out there like this, I'm bound to pick up some trash like this. The harsh reality of it is, stealth's in AoC. Cry About it, but you'll still need to deal with it. To you I offer this. Instead of saying "It Sucks" Why not come up with good logical reasons that a community can agree with about it, and try to show the powers that be. Saying that Stealth isn't done right, or Stealth just sucks, and you don't like getting killed by people you can't run from befor they attack you isn't going to cut it.
And what you never seemed to notice is that I never "cried" about stealth in Age of Conan. I never "cried" about stealth in general. I love stealth in games. I love the frustration of finding a dagger in my back at a critical time and the sensation of relief I get when I pound said dagger-wielder into dust (sometimes). Also, the "very small portion" that *does* hate stealth *did* explain it. Except you want to dismiss their explanations as invalid because you don't agree with the very premise of hating stealth.
As for petty insults: "Cry more", "cry about it", "whiner", etc count as petty insults. You, sir/ma'am, are guilty of petty insults. If you have anything else to say to me, my PM box is open to you.
I'll dismiss idiots who say Stealth sucks, its way over powered in PvP. Yes I will. Stealth Charactors arn't the be all, end all of the PvP World, and to say that stealth should be left out, because they think they die too much to stealthers. The thing they actualy hate, is that they can't see it comming. They would run from others, where as a rogue gets them befor they can flee. Those people don't get oppinions, they are prey. I don't ask a cow how he feels about Filet Migon.
So funny...." YO, Fish....hop on my plate, let's get this over with".
Everybody crying about stealth can put points into their Perception skill to identify stealthers. I also don't know why you choose to complain about something that you have no experience on in this particular game, and why you would complain on a non-official forum, when there is an official forum.
To be honest with you, I can't see how a game with a third person view could NOT have some sort of stealth system.
You can see behind you at ALL times in this game (and in every 3rd person MMO) making sneaking without help from the computer IMPOSSIBLE.
I don't care if you feel that sneaking is honest. Of course it isn't. It isn't straight up and down, it isn't in your face, it isn' a fireball or an ice nova or Odin's spear in your ass. It isn't a battleaxe through your skull. It isn't racing across a bloody field screaming wildly at your opponent with a two handed sword and severed heads dangling from your belt.
It's dishonest, backstabbing, oportunistic, and plain wrong. It's being able to out think, out maneuver, out wait, and finally when nessisary, out run your opponent. A straight up fight is what you normally avoid (though this isn't the same for everyone) in favor of the easy kill. You get that opportunity by having surprise on your side.
You need stealth to have surprise on your side. Granted, people have been doing the stealth aspect inccorectly for a long time, but the idea itself isn't flawed, the mechanics are. The trade off for the surprise advantage is supposed to be less survivability, less dps overall, and generally, less charisma. You trade something to be a sneaky bastard, and in return, you get to stab people in the kidneys when they aren't looking.
And there is NO WAY that they could keep stealth out of a CONAN world. The whole damn book series was one long tale about a badass thief and his badass companions. So what if he had bulging muscles and could also fight like a dozen demons? His first real career was as a thief if I recall. It would be a huge disservice the spirit of the books if they made it impossible for characters to also be thieves in the game. Hell, I know I wouldn't play if stealth was left out.
I prefer watching where people go, how they move from point A to B, what drives them to move from A to B. I like picking off stragglers and harrassing supply lines. I prefer to avoid the main battle, since I prefer to go for the throat instead of jumping into a fist fight. I like scouting for my allies (DAOC got me addicted to that until they put in the realmwar map) and setting up ambushes. It thrills me to see an enemy force taken by surprise by equal or lesser numbers of my allies and slaughtered. It thrills me because I know that I played a crucial part of it, and I did it doing what I normally do best- being a sneaky bastard.
Just like some people are best at explosions or stand up tanking.
[Begin Sarcasm]
Girls don't use the internet unless theres a webcam involved....its a physical impossibility.
They also don't play them thar vidya gaymes, mmorpg = most men online role play girls...even in ventrillo.
Grow Up. Disagreeing with somebody isn't the same as petty insults. I can disagree with somebody without saying "Go back to WoW"... I don't play WoW, haven't for months. I started the thread to get the community's oppinion, not " STEALTH IS OVERPOWERED, IT SHOULD BE REMOVED" for a game that isn't even out yet. When in fact the AoC offical forums shows that more people want to play rogue charactors then any other type. Removeing stealth seems to hardly be an option. Removeing something because a very small portion of a community doesn't like stealth for reasons they cannot explain, other then they don't like it. I guess when you throw a net out there like this, I'm bound to pick up some trash like this. The harsh reality of it is, stealth's in AoC. Cry About it, but you'll still need to deal with it. To you I offer this. Instead of saying "It Sucks" Why not come up with good logical reasons that a community can agree with about it, and try to show the powers that be. Saying that Stealth isn't done right, or Stealth just sucks, and you don't like getting killed by people you can't run from befor they attack you isn't going to cut it.
And what you never seemed to notice is that I never "cried" about stealth in Age of Conan. I never "cried" about stealth in general. I love stealth in games. I love the frustration of finding a dagger in my back at a critical time and the sensation of relief I get when I pound said dagger-wielder into dust (sometimes). Also, the "very small portion" that *does* hate stealth *did* explain it. Except you want to dismiss their explanations as invalid because you don't agree with the very premise of hating stealth.
As for petty insults: "Cry more", "cry about it", "whiner", etc count as petty insults. You, sir/ma'am, are guilty of petty insults.
If you have anything else to say to me, my PM box is open to you.
I'll dismiss idiots who say Stealth sucks, its way over powered in PvP. Yes I will. Stealth Charactors arn't the be all, end all of the PvP World, and to say that stealth should be left out, because they think they die too much to stealthers. The thing they actualy hate, is that they can't see it comming. They would run from others, where as a rogue gets them befor they can flee. Those people don't get oppinions, they are prey. I don't ask a cow how he feels about Filet Migon.
Then why even post. This isn't a blog. Its a discussion board.
I was just crusing the other game forums, and I hear something that made my ears fall off!!!! Theres a big big MMO comming out around the same time as AoC, (I WONT SAY THE NAME) and it WILL NOT have stealth!! Will Stealth be in AoC? I can't see how a game doesn't have stealth, its part of MMO Culture! I don't plan to play one in AoC because I've played one in every other game i've ever played, but I'd cry if they didn't have it.
If you want the same old thing because of culture, then you have many game you can still play. Move along.
I could kill MOST classes without stealthing. Because ??? I knew how. I knew what poisens to use, when to stun, or bleed. When to interupt spell casting. Stealth doesn't kill anyone, It was their lack of prepairations, or attention that gets people killed.
Ah...so then your in agreement.....no reason to have stealth in the game, Rogue classes can be completely viable w/o it....
And so the thread was won!
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Just thought I'd throw this in here, for anyone concerned by WoW's Stunlocking:
It's not stealth that worries me, it's stunlocking to death, which Funcom says they will take care measures to insure there is no stunlocking to death in AoC. This is one of the majors reasons I plan to switch over to AoC when it is released.
Stunlocking by Rogues in WoW is what makes WoW PVP NOT fun.
Now I can respect a good well set up ambush by assassins and rangers in AoC PVP as long as there is no stunlocking.
We have adopted an immunity system rather than a diminishing return system which makes stunlocking impossible.
__________________
Athelan-NPC/Monster Designer, Behavioral Control Center/Combat Guru, Age of Conan
Not every MMOG has had an implementation of stealth or invisibility as such, but almost every one has had some skill, ability or power that allows a player to disappear, camoflauge, distract, be hidden. It's as fundamental a part of the grammar of character development or empowerment as healing, tanking or damage output.
Many of those standard features come with their own familiar issues and technical problems, but stealth is at the top of the list (along with "crowd control") of features that almost always cause serious, ongoing issues. One of the questions I'm eager to pose here is whether the issues that stealth implementations seem to give rise to are intrinsic and unavoidable or the consequence of poorly thought-out designs.
Comments
Well I'll be having a high perception and standing my ground.
Everyone whinging that it doesn't work in a game thats not even out and no one has any idea how balanced it is - even at release when it comes - this makes me laugh. Yea NERF the rogue already rofl.
AoC's classes are pretty diverse, and already looking at some of the abilities and spells that some have im sure there will be decent counters. I have confidence balancing is something that can come along way to fruition at release.
As for petty insults: "Cry more", "cry about it", "whiner", etc count as petty insults. You, sir/ma'am, are guilty of petty insults.
If you have anything else to say to me, my PM box is open to you.
I'll dismiss idiots who say Stealth sucks, its way over powered in PvP. Yes I will. Stealth Charactors arn't the be all, end all of the PvP World, and to say that stealth should be left out, because they think they die too much to stealthers. The thing they actualy hate, is that they can't see it comming. They would run from others, where as a rogue gets them befor they can flee. Those people don't get oppinions, they are prey. I don't ask a cow how he feels about Filet Migon.
So funny...." YO, Fish....hop on my plate, let's get this over with".
Everybody crying about stealth can put points into their Perception skill to identify stealthers. I also don't know why you choose to complain about something that you have no experience on in this particular game, and why you would complain on a non-official forum, when there is an official forum.
To be honest with you, I can't see how a game with a third person view could NOT have some sort of stealth system.
You can see behind you at ALL times in this game (and in every 3rd person MMO) making sneaking without help from the computer IMPOSSIBLE.
I don't care if you feel that sneaking is honest. Of course it isn't. It isn't straight up and down, it isn't in your face, it isn' a fireball or an ice nova or Odin's spear in your ass. It isn't a battleaxe through your skull. It isn't racing across a bloody field screaming wildly at your opponent with a two handed sword and severed heads dangling from your belt.
It's dishonest, backstabbing, oportunistic, and plain wrong. It's being able to out think, out maneuver, out wait, and finally when nessisary, out run your opponent. A straight up fight is what you normally avoid (though this isn't the same for everyone) in favor of the easy kill. You get that opportunity by having surprise on your side.
You need stealth to have surprise on your side. Granted, people have been doing the stealth aspect inccorectly for a long time, but the idea itself isn't flawed, the mechanics are. The trade off for the surprise advantage is supposed to be less survivability, less dps overall, and generally, less charisma. You trade something to be a sneaky bastard, and in return, you get to stab people in the kidneys when they aren't looking.
And there is NO WAY that they could keep stealth out of a CONAN world. The whole damn book series was one long tale about a badass thief and his badass companions. So what if he had bulging muscles and could also fight like a dozen demons? His first real career was as a thief if I recall. It would be a huge disservice the spirit of the books if they made it impossible for characters to also be thieves in the game. Hell, I know I wouldn't play if stealth was left out.
I prefer watching where people go, how they move from point A to B, what drives them to move from A to B. I like picking off stragglers and harrassing supply lines. I prefer to avoid the main battle, since I prefer to go for the throat instead of jumping into a fist fight. I like scouting for my allies (DAOC got me addicted to that until they put in the realmwar map) and setting up ambushes. It thrills me to see an enemy force taken by surprise by equal or lesser numbers of my allies and slaughtered. It thrills me because I know that I played a crucial part of it, and I did it doing what I normally do best- being a sneaky bastard.
Just like some people are best at explosions or stand up tanking.
[Begin Sarcasm]
Girls don't use the internet unless theres a webcam involved....its a physical impossibility.
They also don't play them thar vidya gaymes, mmorpg = most men online role play girls...even in ventrillo.
-kyte317
As for petty insults: "Cry more", "cry about it", "whiner", etc count as petty insults. You, sir/ma'am, are guilty of petty insults.
If you have anything else to say to me, my PM box is open to you.
I'll dismiss idiots who say Stealth sucks, its way over powered in PvP. Yes I will. Stealth Charactors arn't the be all, end all of the PvP World, and to say that stealth should be left out, because they think they die too much to stealthers. The thing they actualy hate, is that they can't see it comming. They would run from others, where as a rogue gets them befor they can flee. Those people don't get oppinions, they are prey. I don't ask a cow how he feels about Filet Migon.
Then why even post. This isn't a blog. Its a discussion board.
If you want the same old thing because of culture, then you have many game you can still play. Move along.
And so the thread was won!
Just thought I'd throw this in here, for anyone concerned by WoW's Stunlocking:
More on Stunlocking here: http://www.wowwiki.com/Stun_Lock
Stunlocking by Rogues in WoW is what makes WoW PVP NOT fun.
Now I can respect a good well set up ambush by assassins and rangers in AoC PVP as long as there is no stunlocking.
We have adopted an immunity system rather than a diminishing return system which makes stunlocking impossible.
Not every MMOG has had an implementation of stealth or invisibility as such, but almost every one has had some skill, ability or power that allows a player to disappear, camoflauge, distract, be hidden. It's as fundamental a part of the grammar of character development or empowerment as healing, tanking or damage output.
Many of those standard features come with their own familiar issues and technical problems, but stealth is at the top of the list (along with "crowd control") of features that almost always cause serious, ongoing issues. One of the questions I'm eager to pose here is whether the issues that stealth implementations seem to give rise to are intrinsic and unavoidable or the consequence of poorly thought-out designs.