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And so begins the SoE takeover, or sell out at the least...
AgtSmith
Member Posts: 1,498
I have bene questioning FLS about this for weeks and it seems obvious now that they have drank the SoE kool aid and are either willingly going along with Sony/SoE plans to control user desktops (at least in part) or are powerless to stop it.
You may or may not know about SoE's new launcher, currently in beta. It is a Steam like application that professes a bunch of stuff people might think they want (if it actually ever works or is supported which in the case of PotBS it is not and seems it is not likely to be anytime soon). it is called the Station Launcher and is an auto run app with links and stuff to all the SoE games we all love so much. It runs in the tray and has a nice little advertising interface that opens up to allow you to launch the, in my case, one game you want to play such as PotBS. Of course, you are greeted with the subtle but nonetheless pervasive promotion of all the station games. And according to press clippings the future plan goes beyond SoE games to music and movies and I suppose whatever crap Sony decides to use your computer to squawk about.
I suppose if you play several Station games it is not the worst thing ever - although we all know how unreliable and problematic SoE software is and untrustworthy Sony in general is in terms of DRM and software. To me this is the biggest issue as service type software is far more prone to issues than is a simple launcher executed and terminated on demand for a specific purpose.
Eventually Station Launcher will do more than just buddy lists. Citing a closer alignment with Sony's music and movie studios, executives said they hope to bring additional content downloads to Station Launcher. Additionally, Sony will be able to provide game updates to the Launcher, allowing patches for different games through one service.
"It's not going to stop at the PC," said Nathan Pearce, a creative director at Sony Online Entertainment, which is a subsidiary of Sony Pictures Digital.
nForceHQ
Eventually Station Launcher will do more than just buddy lists. Citing a closer alignment with Sony's music and movie studios, executives said they hope to bring additional content downloads to Station Launcher. Additionally, Sony will be able to provide game updates to the Launcher, allowing patches for different games through one service.
1Up.com
What gets me on this is the way FLS is spouting the SoE line. On the one hand I have little doubt that FLS is in control of the game itself but seeing how they can go from the people assuring everyone that SoE was only publishing to now being fully supportive of the requirement (when out of beta) to use this Station advertiser for you to be able to play an FLS game. I cannot help but wonder how long it will be before other SoE practices are full endorsed and supported by FLS - will we see ships and swords and things like that on sale like in other SoE games? Who knows, if they are either required or simply willing to let SoE force this down their customers throats despite all those assurances that this was NOT an SoE game then anything is not only possible but plausible.
I for one won't ever install a program like this - just on principle alone and not even deciding on the trust issue with Sony/SoE. How long it takes to become a requirement is unknown, but more than anything I think it is a serious let down to see FLS caving or going along on something like this despite all those assurances.
I allready pre ordered and will follow through and play - but I will find it very hard to subscribe given the lack of support from FLS for those not interested in Station software that does nothing but advertise and promote SoE games I would never want to play. Who knows, maybe nothing more comes of this in terms of SoE influencing FLS, but that seems quite questionable to me at this point.
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Comments
I personally jumped ship on PoTBS when i heard SOE was getting into it, surely i won't play another game for a couple of years for them to ruin it then because they feel the need to try and wow clone it to the best of their abilities.
SOE wants to make money, yet they do not know how, if they knew how they would listen to the fanbase and not their greedy mind.
List of SOE lies
I don't subscribe to the 'SoE is evil' or that corporations are otherwise the same as bad people ro some such thing. Companies are either incompetent or otherwise bad at meeting customer expectations and needs. But I would agree with your sentiment if only I could reword it. SoE, and Sony in general, sees their customers not as people they are obligated to service but as a means to their (Sony's/SoE's) own ends. To me companies like that are ones to avoid because they only ever do what it takes to get your money, your satisfaction as a customer is secondary to them.
I think this Station Launcher is a prefect example. if they where motivated to satisfy their customers and felt their customers wanted across game chat then they could work with xFire to allow some kind of access to make that possible if it isn't otherwise already possible. But that is not what they are doing, they came up with a marketing ploy and use the friends and other so called features as the sugar to get people to swallow. No differant thatn that cheesy flash game your Mom downloads that comes with a nasty trojan payload. this launcher portends to offer things to customers while it is easily designed as a way to the desktop of people for Sony/SoE products and services. FLS should understand many people, even just some, will object to such a thing and not allow PotBS to be co-opted in this way - so long as they don't object they are just as culpable as those originating the ploy in teh first place.
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Well, in all fairness, SOE did create possibly the biggest anti-customer base blunder in the history of MMOs. They took a truly unique game and dumbed it down to make it more WoW like.
Sadly, I see the inclusion of a previously shelved for later avatar combat, rushed and poorly implemented, as much of the same kind of move.
Same here.....I cancelled all of my accounts with any SOE pub. Some fanbois say "so what, they don't need your money"...but they fail to realize in their little heads that when you add up all of those like us, it is a substantial amount that any business regrets losing. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other...I have other interest.... but it's currently raining outside.
"I'm not a racist...I only hate stupid people..."-SinisterCB
I'm pretty sure Flying Labs is in control of what is going on in the game.
SOE is simply marketing the product for Flying Labs. Atleast that is what I have understood.
they have control... for now.
I don't think SOE will screw this one up, hopefully they have learned their lessons.
But then again, we never know. We can only hope Flying Labs keeps a firm grip on the game and doesn't let SOE sneak its nasty bloodsoaked fingers in and take hold.
I am truely anal about programs in my tray. Volume control and firewall, that it. I'm pretty anal about programs running in the back round in general. I know the programs that windows and my firewall need to function and at an idle state, thats all that is running. Lots of pieces of software stick BS in your prefetch folder so it gets started on boot (In the tray or running in the backround unnoticed). I think Hewlett Packard is one of the worst. Usually upon installing you have options for this, it's just that most people click on "Quick" install or click right through it. Deceptive? Perhaps.....but this is nothing new. Companies have been doin this for years.......granted, not so much with games as applications. It's always easy enough to track them down in the prefetch and stop them from automatically starting.
As far as a SOE launcher advertising SOE games...or in the case of PotBS ones on the station pass ... "Meh" it's quite simply what companies do. Push their products and others that make them money. SOE is FLS's safety net I agree. Sellout or takeover? Sigh, after reading many of Rick Saadas posts I would hope not. It would put him in the Smedley category of devs. Not a very good place to be.......
SOE is making a steam like launcher? I hope this is a joke.
If not. I'm done. Canceling today until I can verify this. I'm not going through that shit yet again. Steam is the worst delivery application in gaming history. If SOE wants to lose all their player base then they'll do this. If not. They'll leave shit alone.
NEWS FLASH SOE - DO NOT FIX WHAT IS NOT BROKEN -
Well if this IS true I'll never purchase an SOE game again.. ever.. until the day of my death.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
I think you'll find yourself to be in the minority there, Sinister. I love these arguments of 'But we all add up', when they're just stroking their own ego and not realizing there's not much of a 'we' involved more than 'me'.
Agt., you brought up this whole 'conspiracy thing' back in the IRC and pretty much it's the same old argument. And I am amused by your confusing 'questioning' with 'argumentative', in which everyone pretty much tells you to shut up about it as you simply repeat yourself with venemous anti-SOE mouthings. I don't mind someone questioning a company's motives, but your ramblings were so venomous that it went way beyond questioning. You're not offering anything new or groundbreaking, and honestly, I'm not sure why you're even surprised. The writing has been on the wall for some time that SOE wanted to get into the software publishing side of things vs. the development side. This is simply a logical step toward that end. And since they are going through SOE for their front-end, they are sort of locked with going solely with SOE for the launch software. That's kind of how businesses work.
As far as the whole software conspiracy, you'll find that smarter people than you will put the software through a microscope and let you know what it actually entails, so you should wait for that point rather than run around like a chicken with your head cut off screaming 'The sky is falling, the sky is falling!'. If you're scared of having it on your computer, then don't install it. Simple as that.
I'm not saying that it's a good thing, but look at it this way. It is successful business model. Valve is doing very well, and I have no doubt SOE will do so as well, regardless of the self-importance some may have of their own influence on the grand scheme of things.
What I find amusing is the whole 'I won't install anything like this, but I'll install something like Internet Explorer/Windows/Macrovision/Adobe/Flash/etc.' which has the potential to be much much worse, especially when people simply take it for granted rather than actually checking out to see how it opens their system up to attack. If you want to defend yourself from aggressive advertising, disconnect your computer, your tv, your phone, and anything else that connects you with the world around you, because that's what causes it.
NCSoft's launcher works almost exactly like this...when you boot up your pc there it is in the tray and it shows you ads and links to all their games and patches the game for you. But there's that nifty lil pc feature of changing your start up list ...not sure what the big deal is here if you just use the launcher to log in...who actually reads those screens anyway other than people with slow connections?
another crying foul on SOE..and forgetting its nothing new...SOE's only true mistake was the SWG debacle..honestly....you should just have plates installed in your skull if the tin foil hat isn't enough.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
The Station Launcher is in beta and totally optional, as far as it remaining optional we shall see. You don't need it to launch your games by the way.
This post seems more like bashing SOE just to bash SOE...imagine that...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I have zero problem listing all the games on the launcher...but that clearly states they intend on adding music, videos, trailers for Sony movies, etc. as well.
Sorry, that's a little different in my mind.
PHEW thank god. If it wasn't optional i'd be done with SOE games for good. I despise steam.. I hope it remains optional.. would hate to quit EQ2 due to another dumb SOE move.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
they have control... for now.
It will be interesting to see if it stays that way for very long. SOE loves to buy games and hurting developers are usually quick to sell. Have to just wait and see how this one turns out.
I would have said the same before hearing Rusty's replies to my own objections on this issue. But one of two things is the case here - either he is being forced to do this by the SoE deal or he agrees it is an appropriate thing to force the use of a largely unnecessary application with the obvious purpose being promotion through availability (and who knows what else later) of Sony/SoE programs.
So either FLS has lost control or they are on board with this type of typical SoE leverage the customer to get what we want type of tactic.
Given my experience with SoE over the years and even of late through PotBS closed beta testing they are hardly capable of fixing what goes wrong let alone what isn't broken.
Nothing I have said here is venomous or otherwise over the top. As for irc or comments elsewhere post one comment that I have done anything that offer reasoned objection to this issue. You can't because I haven't. And I suggest no conspiracy, this is being done out in the open negating any possible conspiracy. And I even argued here that SoE is not "evil" as someone exaggerated, they are just incompetent and have the wrong priorities in my opinion. Sorry if calling FLS out for not following through on their promises of SoE exerting this kind of control/influence offends you but hey - that is the way I think it is and the way it looks.
And another thing, I am no basher of the game. FLS themselves invited me to join their Boarding Party community group which is formed to be a go between for fans and FLS as well as promote the game. I recently resigned because I felt I had certain disagreements with the game that made it awkward trying to be a cheerleader and critic at the same time, Theresa herself emailed me asking me to reconsider or at least stay nearby with an open ear and I agreed. Point being, while I am not special in any way, I am not a raving PotBS hater. I like the game, I will buy the game, I will play the game - and I really like FLS and have praised them to date as being part of the good guys side of things. But on this they re wrong, and it is such an inappropriate thing given the obvious SoE concerns many have that it does call into question the issue of control and influence or simple their judgment.
And for the record, I don't install Adobe programs for this exact type of reason - they install and run service level outrun components that operate without user permission or control. IE, it is part of windows but I surely don't use it - and other such things I avoid when the intrusion is great or the source is suspect. Sony and SoE are easily at the top of the list of companies who I don't trust software from not only for security/privacy issues but simply because their track record is buggy crap. I might install their launcher knowing and checking that it does its one thing without more intrusive elements and knowing that it runs when I tell it to and shuts off when its task is over, going to a running in the background app made for the clear purpose of delivering promotions about SoE games and movies and music and stuff is a big difference.
NCsoft is not SoE for one thing and if you read the reports I posted (there are many more if you search) clearly Sony itself has plans for this launcher. People always defend SoE for comments about Sony's rootkit mess but which division did the rootkit - music. And who is quoted as being part of this in future plans - Sony Music.
But all that aside, NCsoft using an NCsoft made application for NCsoft made games used by an NCsoft cusotmer is one thing - PotBS is supposed to be an FLS game, so why am I forced to use such intrusive SoE software promoting and servicing SoE games? There is a big difference there.
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Anything else inaccurate you want to post? While still in beta it is optional but when done it is REQUIRED to play any Station game.
From http://launcher.station.sony.com/faq.vm
Do I have to use the Station Launcher?
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Anything else inaccurate you want to post? While still in beta it is optional but when done it is REQUIRED to play any Station game.
From http://launcher.station.sony.com/faq.vm
Do I have to use the Station Launcher?
Forced?
I play 1 of their damn games. Why do I need the damn launcher for all of them. Why do I need to be bombarded by extra tons of garbage when all I want to do is login and play. the current launcher starts, updates, starts game, closes launcher. 1 click for the shortcut. type my password. hit entire.. walk away.. 2mins and my character is on the screen. Now they want to make it complicated and give extra features that most likely no one wants.
This is even better confirmation then what I was lead to believe. Then this is it. I'm done with EQ2. Not against the game, but because SOE is ruining it for me *sigh*. Time to find something else. Maybe EVE.. maybe i'll go back to WOW.. or just wait it out.. who knows..
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
I know that FLS and Sony have their relations. But FLS isn't SOE, nor will they ever be. FLS looked to Sony for distribution and advertising and stuff like that. SOE has little to do with the accual gameplay going on in the game. So, just because PoTBS is on SOE's "list of games", doesnt mean that it is accually run by SOE. At least, not yet.
So are we better off learning that SoE has no control over in game stuff but has the ability to exert control over my desktop if I want acces to the game? I worry far more about the later than the former.
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Honestly, NCSoft's launcher is fairly nice. If Station Launcher is anything like it then it'll be nice as well. Advertisements or not as long as they don't force you to click through the advertisements. If you purchase a game and then you are forced to see advertisements before you play that game (by clicking through them) then I think thats total BS.
However, it is rather ridiculous going after SOE at this point for creating a launcher for their games. Something like this is very nice for station access people and with non-intrusive advertisements for other games it helps bring in some players to those to boost those communities as well.
Anyone who is howling and ready to rip SOE over this when its still in beta needs to recheck themselves and stop "The Sky is falling" crap as mentioned before in this thread. You may hate SOE for the NGE stuff but don't rag on them simply to rag on them. And yes, I agree, Smedley should be fired for the NGE crap because that was simply the most boneheaded move in the history of MMORPG developed.
And tust me Turbine deserves far more venom spit in their direction. AC2 cancellation right after expansion, DDO's $14.95 price tag for a Guild Wars Free style gameplay and the absolute snoozefest known as LoTRO and the 6 months of no updates after promised monthly content just to create an expansion pack by amateurs and stealing all the good developers away to make DDO and LoTRO.
So again, SOE may have committed something boneheaded and tried to revamp SWG to appeal to more people but Turbine strait up spat in people's faces.
splat
Very true, I see your point. But accually, SOE doesn't have that access. You could have relations with PoTBS without even going near Sony. They have their own launcher, not SOE's. They have their own website. Not the http://piratesoftheburningsea.station.sony.com/ but the www.piratesoftheburningsea.com or www.potbs.com. Those don't involve SOE. So all Sony is really doing is publishing it, and putting their name on it.
hey retards....download the potbs launcher sans the soe launcher....dolts....
I don't begrudge SoE for doing this for their games, but we have all been told the libe about this NOT BEING AND SOE GAME. So why must I use anything but the most basic SoE launcher for patching and authentication. I have no interest in SoE Station games so why must I be forced to install something clearly designed for promoting them when I am not even a customer of those games. If Station people want it great - let them, if SoE wants to really make something good then leave it optional and the public will be the judge. But by forcing on people who are not even customers of SoE games then it becomes obvious that they are simply leveraging people's desire to play a game they don't even make to get that desktop space of theirs to proomte Sony/SoE stuff.
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I've had a station pass for around the past 5 years and they have always had a station launcher, just that most don't use it and go directly through to the game via each games individual log in.
They are changing the skin and adding other crap (granted unwanted, by myself) such as music/movie links but other than that I just fail to see the problem here.
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