I really am the last to chime into Smed-bashing... but this man has lost ALL sense of gaming and all managemant instincts. I know F2P is a market, but there are SO many people who prefer to pay via a monthly payment over having to pay for unlock or dubious "items" rather. Its not that SOE is thinking about GW-like games, they want to milk the gamers MORE. As long as you have a monthly fee its easy to control to spendings as player, and you can be certain everything someone else wears (esp. important in PVP) was gained by him PLAYING not PAYING for it. The idea someone has uber gear because he is rich is the LAST thing I want to see in a MMO! Folks its not that SOE suddenly becomes generous, the want just a legal way to make what goldsellers do, just by themselves, THATS it! Besides, any F2P game shows its FULL of freeloaders and aggro kids, all my experience with GW was horrible community wise. This man really doesnt get the message! His NGE was wrong, he acquisition of Vanguard was wrong, and so many other decisions. He just has SO lost his instincts into whats going on. Hopefully in the Sony mother company someone realizes it sometimes and pulls the plug and replaces him. I have SO enough of this mans STUPID ramblings and ideas! If SOE goes into this gaming philosophy I am going to boycott them, I swear, and if theirs are the last MMOs out there. I fully agree with Jenuviel. This is were I too draw the line, while being not MUD player, I can think of many other types of games I can spent my time with, again. OF COURSE the business is *talking* about such models, and maybe they will try it. But I can tell them all right here and now they will fall flat on their noses with it. Its the same than the foolish copy-protected music download. Once the idea was, to make the music download cheap, but get the income back with limiting the downloaded file to one computer. In reality, it never gained much ground, essentially because people rather pay a bit more but then be certain they can play the music everywhere they want. Most people just prefer a simple 1-time fee which opens all features over a too complictaed system where they are unsure how much they will pay netto in the long run. Just like the limited music download now has failed and most companies are changing that, the itemized payment will fail in the end, if they are really stupid enough to try it out. This is SO NOT the future, lol. But greed likely makes stupid.
Actually SOE understands perfectly well, It's you who does not understand. The business is talking about such models? Sorry for asking, but have you been living in a cave? The business is not just talking about such models, the models has been applied and has proven to be successful. In a matter of only a few years the Item shop model has completely dominated asia over monthly fee games,to the point where it's rare to see a monthly fee game and is starting to become more and more popular in the west. Games like Silkroad Online and Maple Story have criminal amounts of players, and people are paying for this, even though it's clear those games are made on a limited budget.
Yulgang Online (Also known as Scions of Fate) has gained over 45 million accounts now. Yulgang gained 15 million accounts from 2006 - 2007. To clarify, that's 1.5 x's World of Warcraft's entire subscriber base went out just to try out Yulgang Online in just one year. Maple Story currently has 67 million accounts created. 67 million! Now, you might argue "that's just accounts created, not current players" and that's correct, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. It just shows how many more people are willing to try a game if it has an item shop instead of a monthly fee. It opens up the games to a much bigger audience. To compare, the original Everquest, you know, the 500k subscriber behemot of the past, only had 2,5 million people try the game in 5 years That means that in one year, Yulgang Online, had 6 times the amount of players trying out the game then Everquest did in five years
Anybody who says the business model will fail is horribly outdated, as the business model has already proven to be successful.
You can love it or you can hate it, but the business model is here to stay. Will monthly fee mmo's die out? Probably not. Despite the overwhelming success in Asia, games like Lineage, Lineage 2, Ragnarok Online and Legend of Mir 2 are still charging a monthly fee because it's difficult to change payment models this far in a game, or even a franchise. But you will see more MMO's, such as the Agency and Free realms by SOE, addapt the business models.
You should know pretty well we talk about entirely different CULTURES of gaming here. Most people who are hooked into WOW, EQ2, VG, LOTRO, CoH and so on never want to swap their MMO gaming experience for lightweight games like Maple Story! Its just hilarious to compare them. I mean, if Smed wants to stop making "classic western style MMOs" and start making browser games and Asia grinders, thats his decision. Its just comparing apples and bananas here.
I am quite confident in my judgement. The MMORPG player we have HERE is something entirely different, with differnt expectations and playstyles.
Mr Smartass Smed and his type has make ENOUGH mistakes in business, so they arent the sacred wisemen in MY book. I dunno what the bean counting manager types THINK is the future, I just say most of the kind of players who play said western style MMOs will NOT be too happy about this, I can guanrantee you. If they want another target audience, well, its their decision, but they aint gonna make it with 95% of their CURRENT players. Its a dubious money trap, where people are lulled to believe they save money and they they are tempted to spent hundrets of dollars because they sting their greed. I find this idea not only stupid but also immoral. Its like placing a heroine vendor in a schoolyard!
The problem is that you're only looking at one audience. The people who play EQ2, VG, Lotro and CoH's minds probably won't be changed, but you're ignoring a much bigger audience, mainly of teenagers, who play games like Maple Story and Silkroad. Why would developers focus on the Everquest 2 and Vanguard audiance when there is a much bigger teenage audience playing games like Maple Story?
Smedley has never said that they would abandon the typical Everquest 2 players but they have to target a much bigger audience if they want to stay competive with other growing companies like Nexon. They haven't announced "Ok look, Everquest 2, Star Wars Galaxies and the Matrix Online are going free to play starting next friday", they have announced 2 NEW titles as f2p games.
As I pointed out before it's rare to see a game where real life money directly shows your status. It's not that putting more money in the game makes you more successful, it doesn't work like that. You want the sword of total uberz? You have to find it ingame. Epic armor of total pwnzors? You'll have to find it ingame. What item shops usually sell are XP boosters, gold drop boosters, Mounts, customization options, extra storage, keys to open chests, pets, teleportation scrolls, things like that.
I really am the last to chime into Smed-bashing... but this man has lost ALL sense of gaming and all managemant instincts. I know F2P is a market, but there are SO many people who prefer to pay via a monthly payment over having to pay for unlock or dubious "items" rather. Its not that SOE is thinking about GW-like games, they want to milk the gamers MORE. As long as you have a monthly fee its easy to control to spendings as player, and you can be certain everything someone else wears (esp. important in PVP) was gained by him PLAYING not PAYING for it. The idea someone has uber gear because he is rich is the LAST thing I want to see in a MMO! Folks its not that SOE suddenly becomes generous, the want just a legal way to make what goldsellers do, just by themselves, THATS it! Besides, any F2P game shows its FULL of freeloaders and aggro kids, all my experience with GW was horrible community wise. This man really doesnt get the message! His NGE was wrong, he acquisition of Vanguard was wrong, and so many other decisions. He just has SO lost his instincts into whats going on. Hopefully in the Sony mother company someone realizes it sometimes and pulls the plug and replaces him. I have SO enough of this mans STUPID ramblings and ideas! If SOE goes into this gaming philosophy I am going to boycott them, I swear, and if theirs are the last MMOs out there. I fully agree with Jenuviel. This is were I too draw the line, while being not MUD player, I can think of many other types of games I can spent my time with, again. OF COURSE the business is *talking* about such models, and maybe they will try it. But I can tell them all right here and now they will fall flat on their noses with it. Its the same than the foolish copy-protected music download. Once the idea was, to make the music download cheap, but get the income back with limiting the downloaded file to one computer. In reality, it never gained much ground, essentially because people rather pay a bit more but then be certain they can play the music everywhere they want. Most people just prefer a simple 1-time fee which opens all features over a too complictaed system where they are unsure how much they will pay netto in the long run. Just like the limited music download now has failed and most companies are changing that, the itemized payment will fail in the end, if they are really stupid enough to try it out. This is SO NOT the future, lol. But greed likely makes stupid.
Actually SOE understands perfectly well, It's you who does not understand. The business is talking about such models? Sorry for asking, but have you been living in a cave? The business is not just talking about such models, the models has been applied and has proven to be successful. In a matter of only a few years the Item shop model has completely dominated asia over monthly fee games,to the point where it's rare to see a monthly fee game and is starting to become more and more popular in the west. Games like Silkroad Online and Maple Story have criminal amounts of players, and people are paying for this, even though it's clear those games are made on a limited budget.
Yulgang Online (Also known as Scions of Fate) has gained over 45 million accounts now. Yulgang gained 15 million accounts from 2006 - 2007. To clarify, that's 1.5 x's World of Warcraft's entire subscriber base went out just to try out Yulgang Online in just one year. Maple Story currently has 67 million accounts created. 67 million! Now, you might argue "that's just accounts created, not current players" and that's correct, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. It just shows how many more people are willing to try a game if it has an item shop instead of a monthly fee. It opens up the games to a much bigger audience. To compare, the original Everquest, you know, the 500k subscriber behemot of the past, only had 2,5 million people try the game in 5 years That means that in one year, Yulgang Online, had 6 times the amount of players trying out the game then Everquest did in five years
Anybody who says the business model will fail is horribly outdated, as the business model has already proven to be successful.
You can love it or you can hate it, but the business model is here to stay. Will monthly fee mmo's die out? Probably not. Despite the overwhelming success in Asia, games like Lineage, Lineage 2, Ragnarok Online and Legend of Mir 2 are still charging a monthly fee because it's difficult to change payment models this far in a game, or even a franchise. But you will see more MMO's, such as the Agency and Free realms by SOE, addapt the business models.
You should know pretty well we talk about entirely different CULTURES of gaming here. Most people who are hooked into WOW, EQ2, VG, LOTRO, CoH and so on never want to swap their MMO gaming experience for lightweight games like Maple Story! Its just hilarious to compare them. I mean, if Smed wants to stop making "classic western style MMOs" and start making browser games and Asia grinders, thats his decision. Its just comparing apples and bananas here.
I am quite confident in my judgement. The MMORPG player we have HERE is something entirely different, with differnt expectations and playstyles.
Mr Smartass Smed and his type has make ENOUGH mistakes in business, so they arent the sacred wisemen in MY book. I dunno what the bean counting manager types THINK is the future, I just say most of the kind of players who play said western style MMOs will NOT be too happy about this, I can guanrantee you. If they want another target audience, well, its their decision, but they aint gonna make it with 95% of their CURRENT players. Its a dubious money trap, where people are lulled to believe they save money and they they are tempted to spent hundrets of dollars because they sting their greed. I find this idea not only stupid but also immoral. Its like placing a heroine vendor in a schoolyard!
The problem is that you're only looking at one audience. The people who play EQ2, VG, Lotro and CoH's minds probably won't be changed, but you're ignoring a much bigger audience, mainly of teenagers, who play games like Maple Story and Silkroad. Why would developers focus on the Everquest 2 and Vanguard audiance when there is a much bigger teenage audience playing games like Maple Story?
Smedley has never said that they would abandon the typical Everquest 2 players but they have to target a much bigger audience if they want to stay competive with other growing companies like Nexon. They haven't announced "Ok look, Everquest 2, Star Wars Galaxies and the Matrix Online are going free to play starting next friday", they have announced 2 NEW titles as f2p games.
As I pointed out before it's rare to see a game where real life money directly shows your status. It's not that putting more money in the game makes you more successful, it doesn't work like that. You want the sword of total uberz? You have to find it ingame. Epic armor of total pwnzors? You'll have to find it ingame. What item shops usually sell are XP boosters, gold drop boosters, Mounts, customization options, extra storage, keys to open chests, pets, teleportation scrolls, things like that.
What is it, am I talking in Marsian?
READ MY LIPS: I AM AGAINST IT.
Not a frigging single more HAIR for money! Not here not anywhere else. I have the old fashioned equality idea, like in an Olympic contest. We all start with the same chance and the best wins. Not "he who has more money gets a more WHATEVER". The line must be drawn here and now. Sure, now they smooth talk about "just a little" and all too soon it will widen and be more and more for money.
NO WAY. It MAY be that the industry will try it out. Ever since game creation went away from a few visionairs and became a product of bean counters games generally got more sterile and mass streamlined. Its games who tries to appeal as many as possible, who dont hurt anyway and dont really please anyone either. Its junk games, MacDonalds games. I dont know what they WILL do, I just say I dont want such TRASH games! Whats so hard to understand about this??
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I really am the last to chime into Smed-bashing... but this man has lost ALL sense of gaming and all managemant instincts. I know F2P is a market, but there are SO many people who prefer to pay via a monthly payment over having to pay for unlock or dubious "items" rather. Its not that SOE is thinking about GW-like games, they want to milk the gamers MORE. As long as you have a monthly fee its easy to control to spendings as player, and you can be certain everything someone else wears (esp. important in PVP) was gained by him PLAYING not PAYING for it. The idea someone has uber gear because he is rich is the LAST thing I want to see in a MMO! Folks its not that SOE suddenly becomes generous, the want just a legal way to make what goldsellers do, just by themselves, THATS it! Besides, any F2P game shows its FULL of freeloaders and aggro kids, all my experience with GW was horrible community wise. This man really doesnt get the message! His NGE was wrong, he acquisition of Vanguard was wrong, and so many other decisions. He just has SO lost his instincts into whats going on. Hopefully in the Sony mother company someone realizes it sometimes and pulls the plug and replaces him. I have SO enough of this mans STUPID ramblings and ideas! If SOE goes into this gaming philosophy I am going to boycott them, I swear, and if theirs are the last MMOs out there. I fully agree with Jenuviel. This is were I too draw the line, while being not MUD player, I can think of many other types of games I can spent my time with, again. OF COURSE the business is *talking* about such models, and maybe they will try it. But I can tell them all right here and now they will fall flat on their noses with it. Its the same than the foolish copy-protected music download. Once the idea was, to make the music download cheap, but get the income back with limiting the downloaded file to one computer. In reality, it never gained much ground, essentially because people rather pay a bit more but then be certain they can play the music everywhere they want. Most people just prefer a simple 1-time fee which opens all features over a too complictaed system where they are unsure how much they will pay netto in the long run. Just like the limited music download now has failed and most companies are changing that, the itemized payment will fail in the end, if they are really stupid enough to try it out. This is SO NOT the future, lol. But greed likely makes stupid.
Actually SOE understands perfectly well, It's you who does not understand. The business is talking about such models? Sorry for asking, but have you been living in a cave? The business is not just talking about such models, the models has been applied and has proven to be successful. In a matter of only a few years the Item shop model has completely dominated asia over monthly fee games,to the point where it's rare to see a monthly fee game and is starting to become more and more popular in the west. Games like Silkroad Online and Maple Story have criminal amounts of players, and people are paying for this, even though it's clear those games are made on a limited budget.
Yulgang Online (Also known as Scions of Fate) has gained over 45 million accounts now. Yulgang gained 15 million accounts from 2006 - 2007. To clarify, that's 1.5 x's World of Warcraft's entire subscriber base went out just to try out Yulgang Online in just one year. Maple Story currently has 67 million accounts created. 67 million! Now, you might argue "that's just accounts created, not current players" and that's correct, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. It just shows how many more people are willing to try a game if it has an item shop instead of a monthly fee. It opens up the games to a much bigger audience. To compare, the original Everquest, you know, the 500k subscriber behemot of the past, only had 2,5 million people try the game in 5 years That means that in one year, Yulgang Online, had 6 times the amount of players trying out the game then Everquest did in five years
Anybody who says the business model will fail is horribly outdated, as the business model has already proven to be successful.
You can love it or you can hate it, but the business model is here to stay. Will monthly fee mmo's die out? Probably not. Despite the overwhelming success in Asia, games like Lineage, Lineage 2, Ragnarok Online and Legend of Mir 2 are still charging a monthly fee because it's difficult to change payment models this far in a game, or even a franchise. But you will see more MMO's, such as the Agency and Free realms by SOE, addapt the business models.
You should know pretty well we talk about entirely different CULTURES of gaming here. Most people who are hooked into WOW, EQ2, VG, LOTRO, CoH and so on never want to swap their MMO gaming experience for lightweight games like Maple Story! Its just hilarious to compare them. I mean, if Smed wants to stop making "classic western style MMOs" and start making browser games and Asia grinders, thats his decision. Its just comparing apples and bananas here.
I am quite confident in my judgement. The MMORPG player we have HERE is something entirely different, with differnt expectations and playstyles.
Mr Smartass Smed and his type has make ENOUGH mistakes in business, so they arent the sacred wisemen in MY book. I dunno what the bean counting manager types THINK is the future, I just say most of the kind of players who play said western style MMOs will NOT be too happy about this, I can guanrantee you. If they want another target audience, well, its their decision, but they aint gonna make it with 95% of their CURRENT players. Its a dubious money trap, where people are lulled to believe they save money and they they are tempted to spent hundrets of dollars because they sting their greed. I find this idea not only stupid but also immoral. Its like placing a heroine vendor in a schoolyard!
The problem is that you're only looking at one audience. The people who play EQ2, VG, Lotro and CoH's minds probably won't be changed, but you're ignoring a much bigger audience, mainly of teenagers, who play games like Maple Story and Silkroad. Why would developers focus on the Everquest 2 and Vanguard audiance when there is a much bigger teenage audience playing games like Maple Story?
Smedley has never said that they would abandon the typical Everquest 2 players but they have to target a much bigger audience if they want to stay competive with other growing companies like Nexon. They haven't announced "Ok look, Everquest 2, Star Wars Galaxies and the Matrix Online are going free to play starting next friday", they have announced 2 NEW titles as f2p games.
As I pointed out before it's rare to see a game where real life money directly shows your status. It's not that putting more money in the game makes you more successful, it doesn't work like that. You want the sword of total uberz? You have to find it ingame. Epic armor of total pwnzors? You'll have to find it ingame. What item shops usually sell are XP boosters, gold drop boosters, Mounts, customization options, extra storage, keys to open chests, pets, teleportation scrolls, things like that.
What is it, am I talking in Marsian?
READ MY LIPS: I AM AGAINST IT.
Not a frigging single more HAIR for money! Not here not anywhere else. I have the old fashioned equality idea, like in an Olympic contest. We all start with the same chance and the best wins. Not "he who has more money gets a more WHATEVER". The line must be drawn here and now. Sure, now they smooth talk about "just a little" and all too soon it will widen and be more and more for money.
NO WAY. It MAY be that the industry will try it out. Ever since game creation went away from a few visionairs and became a product of bean counters games generally got more sterile and mass streamlined. Its games who tries to appeal as many as possible, who dont hurt anyway and dont really please anyone either. Its junk games, MacDonalds games. I dont know what they WILL do, I just say I dont want such TRASH games! Whats so hard to understand about this??
If you want to be against it that's fine, I'm not a fan of the business model either, but if you make a false arguement that the person who puts the most money in the game will be the most successful, or that this business model has no chance of staying and is destined to fail, I'm going to correct you.
Noone knows if this model will work, I doubt it. But I don't really care, I'd love to see SOE go bankrupt and discontinued by Sony though.
There's certain principles you can't just ignore in a business. SOE plans to sell thin air here. Items that don't have a value will be sold for hard cash after coercing people to buy them. Remember these items have no value at all. They become valuable in a fantasy world after you coerce people to buy them. That's not right, I wish there was a law against selling virtual items already, but SOE doesn't seem to care.
After years of telling their players they can't sell items or goods, they make a business out of it. It's so despicable.
It's low, it's not with the good of the consumer in mind, it's about $, it's typical SOE.
Noone knows if this model will work, I doubt it. But I don't really care, I'd love to see SOE go bankrupt and discontinued by Sony though. There's certain principles you can't just ignore in a business. SOE plans to sell thin air here. Items that don't have a value will be sold for hard cash after coercing people to buy them. Remember these items have no value at all. They become valuable in a fantasy world after you coerce people to buy them. That's not right, I wish there was a law against selling virtual items already, but SOE doesn't seem to care. After years of telling their players they can't sell items or goods, they make a business out of it. It's so despicable. It's low, it's not with the good of the consumer in mind, it's about $, it's typical SOE.
It's already been proven that the model works. Also I fail to see any reason in your arguement. Nobody is forcing you to buy those items or even to play the game at all. There will never be a law against selling virtual items because you mention one very silly reason. Wether it has value is up to the player. Getting these items improves the enjoyment the person who buys it gets from the game, it would be the same as saying that an expansion has no value.
There is also a huge difference between a micro transaction model and RMT by 3rd parties such as chinese goldfarmers.
You should know pretty well we talk about entirely different CULTURES of gaming here. Most people who are hooked into WOW, EQ2, VG, LOTRO, CoH and so on never want to swap their MMO gaming experience for lightweight games like Maple Story! Its just hilarious to compare them. I mean, if Smed wants to stop making "classic western style MMOs" and start making browser games and Asia grinders, thats his decision. Its just comparing apples and bananas here.
True dat, Elikal. The only person I knew who went to Maple Story was some dude who couldn't afford to keep his EQ2 account open because he spent all his public assistance check on Sudafed.
...And it wasn't because he had the flu.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I'm as frustrated as the next player by some of SOE's moves, but this thread is basically a circle jerk of people who want to bash anything this man does. You killed any discussion that may have occurred here. Good job.
I get frustrated that anyone would not allow an opposing view to theirs . Do you know what SOE did to me and do you think that I should be allowed to hold SOE and Smed to the high standard they held me and other unjustly treated former customers. While you think of an answer ,I saved your normal place center circle - its going to get messy but your flames should burn most of it off.
Do you know what SOE did to me and do you think that I should be allowed to hold SOE and Smed to the high standard they held me and other unjustly treated former customers.
What did they do to you?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess all of this Smed and SOE is evil is really all about the NGE, isn't it?
I wont ever play a game where I have to pay real world money for items.
The whole concept is totally stupid.
The big guy with the sword ? Well he payed 200 Euros for it. Oooh impressing. So what do we have here ? A total idiot who payed no less than 200 Euros just for having a virtual "item" !!!
Thats definitely for kiddies. Brain - amputated kiddies with too much money, preferably. Really sounds like a mass-market, no ?
The sad bottom line is, I'm playing a SOE MMO right now. I surely hope they wont introduce such crap in my game !
I wont ever play a game where I have to pay real world money for items. The whole concept is totally stupid. The big guy with the sword ? Well he payed 200 Euros for it. Oooh impressing. So what do we have here ? A total idiot who payed no less than 200 Euros just for having a virtual "item" !!! Thats definitely for kiddies. Brain - amputated kiddies with too much money, preferably. Really sounds like a mass-market, no ? The sad bottom line is, I'm playing a SOE MMO right now. I surely hope they wont introduce such crap in my game !
To follow up on your point if I can be so free.
A lot want to escape RL trouble with MMO's, for whatever reason. Confronting people with their financial status that reflects itself in the game isn't a good idea. It will have an adverse effect.
Those games will also emphasize status, and be controlled by addiction. How do you justify putting a value on an item that has no value in real life.
The reason LoN is doing well, is because the people that play EQ/EQ2 usually have a job or family and can afford to be idiots and buy items, kids can't. Claiming it opens the market for kids is backwards, just like SOE.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess all of this Smed and SOE is evil is really all about the NGE, isn't it?
I never played SWG and I still think he's an idiot.
Maybe he is, maybe he isn't I don't presume to know.
SOE is a sub-standard maker of MMO's IMHO and always has been. Their big claim to fame that put them on the map was EQ which even then wasn't anything to write home about. Everything, and I mean everything else they have ever done was a piece of junk that they have had to revamp and salvage. (IMHO) So how does any of this surprise anyone?
So they want to sell items, their games are trash anyway, don't play them.
Do you know what SOE did to me and do you think that I should be allowed to hold SOE and Smed to the high standard they held me and other unjustly treated former customers.
What did they do to you?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess all of this Smed and SOE is evil is really all about the NGE, isn't it?
Oh , its better then that but you appear to be a big boy with the internet in front of you. Before you go climbing trees and looking for limbs why don't you check out my credentials. You going to Love that Jestor!
There will never be a law against selling virtual items because you mention one very silly reason.
I doubt that.
It will only take 1 court case of a mom taking an MMO company to court because her child spend 1000$ on virtual items. The ball will start rolling.
They're items that don't have a value, you can't sell thin air, because that's what it is.
It's not thin air and if they are ingame items then they do have value. It's no different then add ons in games in Xbox Live or Playstation Network. Saying that a mom can sue because her child spend money is not just wrong, it's a downright stupid comment. I don't claim I'm an expert on law but you clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Just because they are virtual items does not mean that buying or selling them is against the law.
As much as you like to believe I'm sure, Item shops in MMO's are not against the law.
Saying that a mom can sue because her child spend money is not just wrong, it's a downright stupid comment. I don't claim I'm an expert on law but you clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Just because they are virtual items does not mean that buying or selling them is against the law.
As much as you like to believe I'm sure, Item shops in MMO's are not against the law.
There's no formal legislation on virtual property and trading so you know as little as anyone else does. SOE can't use LoN in 7 US states because it's against the law there fyi.
If a person buys from the LoN store in one of those 7 states where it's illegal (including europe) and there's discussion about the acquisition, I would love to know what would happen.
It wouldn't be that simple.
And what do you think will happen when a parent finds out their child spend thousands of dollars with a click on virtual items without their consent.
You think that will never occur? You think that won't happen? Of course it will. I'd reconsider just treating this as something that insignificant, because it's not.
And you cannot compare an expansion or an extension to a game where actual content is presented to an an item that has no actual value.
This system is stupid. I'm not sure why you can't see this and feel like defending it, but whatever. I think it's a moronic business perspective.
Saying that a mom can sue because her child spend money is not just wrong, it's a downright stupid comment. I don't claim I'm an expert on law but you clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Just because they are virtual items does not mean that buying or selling them is against the law.
As much as you like to believe I'm sure, Item shops in MMO's are not against the law.
There's no formal legislation on virtual property and trading so you know as little as anyone else does. SOE can't use LoN in 7 US states because it's against the law there fyi.
If a person buys from the LoN store in one of those 7 states where it's illegal (including europe) and there's discussion about the acquisition, I would love to know what would happen.
It wouldn't be that simple.
And what do you think will happen when a parent finds out their child spend thousands of dollars with a click on virtual items without their consent.
You think that will never occur? You think that won't happen? Of course it will. I'd reconsider just treating this as something that insignificant, because it's not.
And you cannot compare an expansion or an extension to a game where actual content is presented to an an item that has no actual value.
This system is stupid. I'm not sure why you can't see this and feel like defending it, but whatever. I think it's a moronic business perspective.
Because nobody ever bothered to check on all those companies selling virtual items, right? You're grasping at straws here. Selling virtual content has NEVER been against the law .
What I think a mother will do when she finds out her child spend thousands of dollars on cash shop items? Well if she has the same mindset as you, she would be laughet out of court. An extension such as the horse armor in Oblivion is no different then buying an item in a game like Maple Story or Rappelz, it's content you're paying for and buying and selling virtual content has never been against the law.
Once again I'm not defending the system, I'm putting the facts on the table. I don't like the system either but that is no reason to twist the truth.
There's no formal legislation on virtual property and trading so you know as little as anyone else does. SOE can't use LoN in 7 US states because it's against the law there fyi. If a person buys from the LoN store in one of those 7 states where it's illegal (including europe) and there's discussion about the acquisition, I would love to know what would happen. It wouldn't be that simple.
And what do you think will happen when a parent finds out their child spend thousands of dollars with a click on virtual items without their consent. You think that will never occur? You think that won't happen? Of course it will. I'd reconsider just treating this as something that insignificant, because it's not. And you cannot compare an expansion or an extension to a game where actual content is presented to an an item that has no actual value. This system is stupid. I'm not sure why you can't see this and feel like defending it, but whatever. I think it's a moronic business perspective.
Because nobody ever bothered to check on all those companies selling virtual items, right? You're grasping at straws here. Selling virtual content has NEVER been against the law .
Jesus christ, can you look things up before you spew nonsense.
LoN for items is illegal in 7 US states and in europe atm, that's why people were upset they couldn't join. It falls under gambling legislation.
And we were talking about virtual trading here, items and currencies. Not just content, don't change the discussion.
I'm done with your discussion, you obviously have some self interest involved.
The Rodo Report-Home of the Unlocked Vet Refuge threads!
Well I guess if thats what you enjoy doing, have at it.
I still think SOE makes garbage games and its not worth the time and effort to even care about what they do and I wouldn't give them the time of day but thats my opinion.
The Rodo Report-Home of the Unlocked Vet Refuge threads! Well I guess if thats what you enjoy doing, have at it. I still think SOE makes garbage games and its not worth the time and effort to even care about what they do and I wouldn't give them the time of day but thats my opinion.
I disagree , SOE makes good games it's what they do afterwards that makes them the infamous company that they have become.
Subscription vs F2p w/ CS, heck it's just different payment models, what do they have to do with quality of a game?? To me all game companies are crooks, and good luck convince me subscription game companies are out there doing charity works. If you ppl have so much time on your hand, why not figure a way to fight those private servers, third-party gold sellers, powel levelers, and above all, bot-making corporations?? They are the true evil and real leechers of this industry. I know you can't, because those guys are hiding in countries that own nuclear weapons and can't be touched by US laws.
Average folks in mainstream society can care less about whether subscription model sinks or swims. No one wants to play a game that holds your credit card number hostage for god-knows-how-long. There are enough identity thieves out there, so one fewer person knows about your card number the better. That's the TRUTH. MMO's don't make front page entertainment news, and certainly don't enter people's daily conversation. Adults hate to admit to other adults they play games. Let me tell you this through personal experience: majority of folks out there, including professionals with 6-digit salaries, don't trust subscription-based games. They view them as a money-making scheme trying to get ppl addicted to their games, month after month. And news that ppl died playing WoW certainly don't help that perception a bit.
If f2p with item malls ultimately prevail, so be it. If that model helps pushing MMO into mainstream, more power to them. Consumers will decide which best & fairest f2p games they want to play, and companies will rise to meet their demands. It's that simple. Consumers and market will select the best out of whole rotting lot, and retire the rest. It's none of our concern where industry is heading, and arguing here won't make any difference.
Thirty years ago people in the west viewed Japanese cars as nothing more than inferior tin cans, a "yellow peril" invasion from the orient. Ten years ago it's those "inferior" Korean electronics and Chinese-made goods that scared your parents. Now it's these f2p "azngrinders" that frighten you. Well, Asia is home to 2/3 of the world's population and I wouldn't be surprised if folks there know something we don't.
First off, SOE will not limit micro transactions to just items and even then those items will be most likely just be a thinly desquised mechanic to facilitate character to character money sales for items. The major hook is going to be payment for access to special areas of their game. As seen in EQ2 with their mini adventure packs.
In a discussion entitled "Subscriptions vs. Micro-Transactions," SonyOnline Entertainment (SOE) president John Smedley said that theupcoming pseudo-MMO action game The Agency (PC, PlayStation 3) would fuse different business models to create a balancing act between attracting players and optimizing profit sources.
Free online play with in-game advertisements, some content accessible via microtransaction, and exclusive areas unlocked through subscriptions will all play a part in The Agency. -John Smedley
Again you will notice Smedley NEVER talks about what makes a game fun, just what he thinks will make cash.
Originally posted by JestorRodo
Smedley's main point -- and I think one that resonates with a lot of industry decision-makers -- is that the free-to-play market simply opens your game to so many more people. "These games are more accessible to people if the barrier to entry isn't a credit card," Smedley says.
The funny thing is that in order to make money SOE will need you to have a credit card.
I am not sure the the RMT market will fail in the states, but I sure think SOE will fail at it. Americans at least prefer flat fees with wireless and internet access, unlike many other areas of the world.
I think the same will hold true for subscriptions based MMOs and SOE will most likely screw this up by overcharging people for half finished products like their very long history shows them to do. Considering SOE has pretty much been kicked out of the asian market with everything they offered so far, I highly doubt he has the insight to bring another cultures payment structure to the west successfully.
The problem is John Smedly is in charge and he is a money man first and formost. He makes decisions based on what he thinks the bottom line will be instead of what will make a great game that will attract players on its own. His choices have really hurt SOE titles. He just doesn't have the pulse of what gamers want anymore.
Maybe he finds a new foothold with children or console gamers, I can't say honestly as I'm not in touch there. So maybe?
Subscription vs F2p w/ CS, heck it's just different payment models, what do they have to do with quality of a game?? To me all game companies are crooks, and good luck convince me subscription game companies are out there doing charity works. If you ppl have so much time on your hand, why not figure a way to fight those private servers, third-party gold sellers, powel levelers, and above all, bot-making corporations?? They are the true evil and real leechers of this industry. I know you can't, because those guys are hiding in countries that own nuclear weapons and can't be touched by US laws. So basically your response to gold sellers and power levelers is to go to where they are and arrest them? And we can't do that.. because they have nuclear weapons? See, I don't really see how this is a "true evil" at all. Noone is forcing you to buy their items to enjoy the game. Average folks in mainstream society can care less about whether subscription model sinks or swims. No one wants to play a game that holds your credit card number hostage for god-knows-how-long. There are enough identity thieves out there, so one fewer person knows about your card number the better. That's the TRUTH. MMO's don't make front page entertainment news, and certainly don't enter people's daily conversation. Adults hate to admit to other adults they play games. Let me tell you this through personal experience: majority of folks out there, including professionals with 6-digit salaries, don't trust subscription-based games. They view them as a money-making scheme trying to get ppl addicted to their games, month after month. And news that ppl died playing WoW certainly don't help that perception a bit. I disagree that adults don't talk about this kind of stuff. I was actually in a business meeting in portland a month or two back, and during the meeting there was a conversation about a few people that play WoW, why they play, and what classes and professions they chose. Granted it was kind of embarrassing for them, especially since I don't play, but knew what they were talking about, but overall, between people that play WoW, they don't care what other people think. And yes, these were people with 6 digit salaries. If f2p with item malls ultimately prevail, so be it. If that model helps pushing MMO into mainstream, more power to them. Consumers will decide which best & fairest f2p games they want to play, and companies will rise to meet their demands. It's that simple. Consumers and market will select the best out of whole rotting lot, and retire the rest. It's none of our concern where industry is heading, and arguing here won't make any difference. If you've ever played a F2P game, they basically revolve around item malls. And you pay for those items with... low and behold, a credit card! As I've posted in this thread before, the f2p model is flawed in that you have to pay to enjoy the game. Whether you're paying for gold, items, experience, or levels, all it does it put two distinguished types of players together. The ones that can't pay for the "new powerful items" and the ones that can. Those that don't want to pay won't be able to compete against those that can, AND if they COULD compete against them without spending the money, then why would anyone spend the money in the first place? The game turns out to not be free even in the least, and they WILL continue to add things that "you just can't play without" so they make their money. Thirty years ago people in the west viewed Japanese cars as nothing more than inferior tin cans, a "yellow peril" invasion from the orient. Ten years ago it's those "inferior" Korean electronics and Chinese-made goods that scared your parents. Now it's these f2p "azngrinders" that frighten you. Well, Asia is home to 2/3 of the world's population and I wouldn't be surprised if folks there know something we don't. Well, if y ou look at those "azngrinders" in comparison to what we play here, THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT GAMES. They have nothing to do with the payment model. It's not like we can't play any of the games they have there, most of the big "azngrinders" are here in the US as well. Not to mention if you think that just because they have a larger population that it means they know something we don't then you're foolish. Each culture has their own things they like and dislike, so to think that just because people in asia love to sit there and grind until their face falls off that everyone is going to love it then you are sadly mistaken. WoW is HUGE in asia as well, only about 1-3 million subscribers are here in the US as compared to in Asia wher ethe majority of the players are. If you look at the most successful MMO which IS WoW, and see that the model worked better in asia eventhough the F2P games have been there the whole time, then what you have is the opposite of the point you were originally trying to make.
Comments
Actually SOE understands perfectly well, It's you who does not understand. The business is talking about such models? Sorry for asking, but have you been living in a cave? The business is not just talking about such models, the models has been applied and has proven to be successful. In a matter of only a few years the Item shop model has completely dominated asia over monthly fee games,to the point where it's rare to see a monthly fee game and is starting to become more and more popular in the west. Games like Silkroad Online and Maple Story have criminal amounts of players, and people are paying for this, even though it's clear those games are made on a limited budget.
Yulgang Online (Also known as Scions of Fate) has gained over 45 million accounts now. Yulgang gained 15 million accounts from 2006 - 2007. To clarify, that's 1.5 x's World of Warcraft's entire subscriber base went out just to try out Yulgang Online in just one year. Maple Story currently has 67 million accounts created. 67 million! Now, you might argue "that's just accounts created, not current players" and that's correct, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. It just shows how many more people are willing to try a game if it has an item shop instead of a monthly fee. It opens up the games to a much bigger audience. To compare, the original Everquest, you know, the 500k subscriber behemot of the past, only had 2,5 million people try the game in 5 years That means that in one year, Yulgang Online, had 6 times the amount of players trying out the game then Everquest did in five years
Anybody who says the business model will fail is horribly outdated, as the business model has already proven to be successful.
You can love it or you can hate it, but the business model is here to stay. Will monthly fee mmo's die out? Probably not. Despite the overwhelming success in Asia, games like Lineage, Lineage 2, Ragnarok Online and Legend of Mir 2 are still charging a monthly fee because it's difficult to change payment models this far in a game, or even a franchise. But you will see more MMO's, such as the Agency and Free realms by SOE, addapt the business models.
You should know pretty well we talk about entirely different CULTURES of gaming here. Most people who are hooked into WOW, EQ2, VG, LOTRO, CoH and so on never want to swap their MMO gaming experience for lightweight games like Maple Story! Its just hilarious to compare them. I mean, if Smed wants to stop making "classic western style MMOs" and start making browser games and Asia grinders, thats his decision. Its just comparing apples and bananas here.
I am quite confident in my judgement. The MMORPG player we have HERE is something entirely different, with differnt expectations and playstyles.
Mr Smartass Smed and his type has make ENOUGH mistakes in business, so they arent the sacred wisemen in MY book. I dunno what the bean counting manager types THINK is the future, I just say most of the kind of players who play said western style MMOs will NOT be too happy about this, I can guanrantee you. If they want another target audience, well, its their decision, but they aint gonna make it with 95% of their CURRENT players. Its a dubious money trap, where people are lulled to believe they save money and they they are tempted to spent hundrets of dollars because they sting their greed. I find this idea not only stupid but also immoral. Its like placing a heroine vendor in a schoolyard!
The problem is that you're only looking at one audience. The people who play EQ2, VG, Lotro and CoH's minds probably won't be changed, but you're ignoring a much bigger audience, mainly of teenagers, who play games like Maple Story and Silkroad. Why would developers focus on the Everquest 2 and Vanguard audiance when there is a much bigger teenage audience playing games like Maple Story?
Smedley has never said that they would abandon the typical Everquest 2 players but they have to target a much bigger audience if they want to stay competive with other growing companies like Nexon. They haven't announced "Ok look, Everquest 2, Star Wars Galaxies and the Matrix Online are going free to play starting next friday", they have announced 2 NEW titles as f2p games.
As I pointed out before it's rare to see a game where real life money directly shows your status. It's not that putting more money in the game makes you more successful, it doesn't work like that. You want the sword of total uberz? You have to find it ingame. Epic armor of total pwnzors? You'll have to find it ingame. What item shops usually sell are XP boosters, gold drop boosters, Mounts, customization options, extra storage, keys to open chests, pets, teleportation scrolls, things like that.
Actually SOE understands perfectly well, It's you who does not understand. The business is talking about such models? Sorry for asking, but have you been living in a cave? The business is not just talking about such models, the models has been applied and has proven to be successful. In a matter of only a few years the Item shop model has completely dominated asia over monthly fee games,to the point where it's rare to see a monthly fee game and is starting to become more and more popular in the west. Games like Silkroad Online and Maple Story have criminal amounts of players, and people are paying for this, even though it's clear those games are made on a limited budget.
Yulgang Online (Also known as Scions of Fate) has gained over 45 million accounts now. Yulgang gained 15 million accounts from 2006 - 2007. To clarify, that's 1.5 x's World of Warcraft's entire subscriber base went out just to try out Yulgang Online in just one year. Maple Story currently has 67 million accounts created. 67 million! Now, you might argue "that's just accounts created, not current players" and that's correct, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. It just shows how many more people are willing to try a game if it has an item shop instead of a monthly fee. It opens up the games to a much bigger audience. To compare, the original Everquest, you know, the 500k subscriber behemot of the past, only had 2,5 million people try the game in 5 years That means that in one year, Yulgang Online, had 6 times the amount of players trying out the game then Everquest did in five years
Anybody who says the business model will fail is horribly outdated, as the business model has already proven to be successful.
You can love it or you can hate it, but the business model is here to stay. Will monthly fee mmo's die out? Probably not. Despite the overwhelming success in Asia, games like Lineage, Lineage 2, Ragnarok Online and Legend of Mir 2 are still charging a monthly fee because it's difficult to change payment models this far in a game, or even a franchise. But you will see more MMO's, such as the Agency and Free realms by SOE, addapt the business models.
You should know pretty well we talk about entirely different CULTURES of gaming here. Most people who are hooked into WOW, EQ2, VG, LOTRO, CoH and so on never want to swap their MMO gaming experience for lightweight games like Maple Story! Its just hilarious to compare them. I mean, if Smed wants to stop making "classic western style MMOs" and start making browser games and Asia grinders, thats his decision. Its just comparing apples and bananas here.
I am quite confident in my judgement. The MMORPG player we have HERE is something entirely different, with differnt expectations and playstyles.
Mr Smartass Smed and his type has make ENOUGH mistakes in business, so they arent the sacred wisemen in MY book. I dunno what the bean counting manager types THINK is the future, I just say most of the kind of players who play said western style MMOs will NOT be too happy about this, I can guanrantee you. If they want another target audience, well, its their decision, but they aint gonna make it with 95% of their CURRENT players. Its a dubious money trap, where people are lulled to believe they save money and they they are tempted to spent hundrets of dollars because they sting their greed. I find this idea not only stupid but also immoral. Its like placing a heroine vendor in a schoolyard!
The problem is that you're only looking at one audience. The people who play EQ2, VG, Lotro and CoH's minds probably won't be changed, but you're ignoring a much bigger audience, mainly of teenagers, who play games like Maple Story and Silkroad. Why would developers focus on the Everquest 2 and Vanguard audiance when there is a much bigger teenage audience playing games like Maple Story?
Smedley has never said that they would abandon the typical Everquest 2 players but they have to target a much bigger audience if they want to stay competive with other growing companies like Nexon. They haven't announced "Ok look, Everquest 2, Star Wars Galaxies and the Matrix Online are going free to play starting next friday", they have announced 2 NEW titles as f2p games.
As I pointed out before it's rare to see a game where real life money directly shows your status. It's not that putting more money in the game makes you more successful, it doesn't work like that. You want the sword of total uberz? You have to find it ingame. Epic armor of total pwnzors? You'll have to find it ingame. What item shops usually sell are XP boosters, gold drop boosters, Mounts, customization options, extra storage, keys to open chests, pets, teleportation scrolls, things like that.
What is it, am I talking in Marsian?READ MY LIPS: I AM AGAINST IT.
Not a frigging single more HAIR for money! Not here not anywhere else. I have the old fashioned equality idea, like in an Olympic contest. We all start with the same chance and the best wins. Not "he who has more money gets a more WHATEVER". The line must be drawn here and now. Sure, now they smooth talk about "just a little" and all too soon it will widen and be more and more for money.
NO WAY. It MAY be that the industry will try it out. Ever since game creation went away from a few visionairs and became a product of bean counters games generally got more sterile and mass streamlined. Its games who tries to appeal as many as possible, who dont hurt anyway and dont really please anyone either. Its junk games, MacDonalds games. I dont know what they WILL do, I just say I dont want such TRASH games! Whats so hard to understand about this??
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Actually SOE understands perfectly well, It's you who does not understand. The business is talking about such models? Sorry for asking, but have you been living in a cave? The business is not just talking about such models, the models has been applied and has proven to be successful. In a matter of only a few years the Item shop model has completely dominated asia over monthly fee games,to the point where it's rare to see a monthly fee game and is starting to become more and more popular in the west. Games like Silkroad Online and Maple Story have criminal amounts of players, and people are paying for this, even though it's clear those games are made on a limited budget.
Yulgang Online (Also known as Scions of Fate) has gained over 45 million accounts now. Yulgang gained 15 million accounts from 2006 - 2007. To clarify, that's 1.5 x's World of Warcraft's entire subscriber base went out just to try out Yulgang Online in just one year. Maple Story currently has 67 million accounts created. 67 million! Now, you might argue "that's just accounts created, not current players" and that's correct, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. It just shows how many more people are willing to try a game if it has an item shop instead of a monthly fee. It opens up the games to a much bigger audience. To compare, the original Everquest, you know, the 500k subscriber behemot of the past, only had 2,5 million people try the game in 5 years That means that in one year, Yulgang Online, had 6 times the amount of players trying out the game then Everquest did in five years
Anybody who says the business model will fail is horribly outdated, as the business model has already proven to be successful.
You can love it or you can hate it, but the business model is here to stay. Will monthly fee mmo's die out? Probably not. Despite the overwhelming success in Asia, games like Lineage, Lineage 2, Ragnarok Online and Legend of Mir 2 are still charging a monthly fee because it's difficult to change payment models this far in a game, or even a franchise. But you will see more MMO's, such as the Agency and Free realms by SOE, addapt the business models.
You should know pretty well we talk about entirely different CULTURES of gaming here. Most people who are hooked into WOW, EQ2, VG, LOTRO, CoH and so on never want to swap their MMO gaming experience for lightweight games like Maple Story! Its just hilarious to compare them. I mean, if Smed wants to stop making "classic western style MMOs" and start making browser games and Asia grinders, thats his decision. Its just comparing apples and bananas here.
I am quite confident in my judgement. The MMORPG player we have HERE is something entirely different, with differnt expectations and playstyles.
Mr Smartass Smed and his type has make ENOUGH mistakes in business, so they arent the sacred wisemen in MY book. I dunno what the bean counting manager types THINK is the future, I just say most of the kind of players who play said western style MMOs will NOT be too happy about this, I can guanrantee you. If they want another target audience, well, its their decision, but they aint gonna make it with 95% of their CURRENT players. Its a dubious money trap, where people are lulled to believe they save money and they they are tempted to spent hundrets of dollars because they sting their greed. I find this idea not only stupid but also immoral. Its like placing a heroine vendor in a schoolyard!
The problem is that you're only looking at one audience. The people who play EQ2, VG, Lotro and CoH's minds probably won't be changed, but you're ignoring a much bigger audience, mainly of teenagers, who play games like Maple Story and Silkroad. Why would developers focus on the Everquest 2 and Vanguard audiance when there is a much bigger teenage audience playing games like Maple Story?
Smedley has never said that they would abandon the typical Everquest 2 players but they have to target a much bigger audience if they want to stay competive with other growing companies like Nexon. They haven't announced "Ok look, Everquest 2, Star Wars Galaxies and the Matrix Online are going free to play starting next friday", they have announced 2 NEW titles as f2p games.
As I pointed out before it's rare to see a game where real life money directly shows your status. It's not that putting more money in the game makes you more successful, it doesn't work like that. You want the sword of total uberz? You have to find it ingame. Epic armor of total pwnzors? You'll have to find it ingame. What item shops usually sell are XP boosters, gold drop boosters, Mounts, customization options, extra storage, keys to open chests, pets, teleportation scrolls, things like that.
What is it, am I talking in Marsian?READ MY LIPS: I AM AGAINST IT.
Not a frigging single more HAIR for money! Not here not anywhere else. I have the old fashioned equality idea, like in an Olympic contest. We all start with the same chance and the best wins. Not "he who has more money gets a more WHATEVER". The line must be drawn here and now. Sure, now they smooth talk about "just a little" and all too soon it will widen and be more and more for money.
NO WAY. It MAY be that the industry will try it out. Ever since game creation went away from a few visionairs and became a product of bean counters games generally got more sterile and mass streamlined. Its games who tries to appeal as many as possible, who dont hurt anyway and dont really please anyone either. Its junk games, MacDonalds games. I dont know what they WILL do, I just say I dont want such TRASH games! Whats so hard to understand about this??
If you want to be against it that's fine, I'm not a fan of the business model either, but if you make a false arguement that the person who puts the most money in the game will be the most successful, or that this business model has no chance of staying and is destined to fail, I'm going to correct you.
Noone knows if this model will work, I doubt it. But I don't really care, I'd love to see SOE go bankrupt and discontinued by Sony though.
There's certain principles you can't just ignore in a business. SOE plans to sell thin air here. Items that don't have a value will be sold for hard cash after coercing people to buy them. Remember these items have no value at all. They become valuable in a fantasy world after you coerce people to buy them. That's not right, I wish there was a law against selling virtual items already, but SOE doesn't seem to care.
After years of telling their players they can't sell items or goods, they make a business out of it. It's so despicable.
It's low, it's not with the good of the consumer in mind, it's about $, it's typical SOE.
There is also a huge difference between a micro transaction model and RMT by 3rd parties such as chinese goldfarmers.
I doubt that.
It will only take 1 court case of a mom taking an MMO company to court because her child spend 1000$ on virtual items. The ball will start rolling.
They're items that don't have a value, you can't sell thin air, because that's what it is.
You should know pretty well we talk about entirely different CULTURES of gaming here. Most people who are hooked into WOW, EQ2, VG, LOTRO, CoH and so on never want to swap their MMO gaming experience for lightweight games like Maple Story! Its just hilarious to compare them. I mean, if Smed wants to stop making "classic western style MMOs" and start making browser games and Asia grinders, thats his decision. Its just comparing apples and bananas here.
True dat, Elikal. The only person I knew who went to Maple Story was some dude who couldn't afford to keep his EQ2 account open because he spent all his public assistance check on Sudafed.
...And it wasn't because he had the flu.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I get frustrated that anyone would not allow an opposing view to theirs . Do you know what SOE did to me and do you think that I should be allowed to hold SOE and Smed to the high standard they held me and other unjustly treated former customers. While you think of an answer ,I saved your normal place center circle - its going to get messy but your flames should burn most of it off.
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess all of this Smed and SOE is evil is really all about the NGE, isn't it?
I never played SWG and I still think he's an idiot.
I wont ever play a game where I have to pay real world money for items.
The whole concept is totally stupid.
The big guy with the sword ? Well he payed 200 Euros for it. Oooh impressing. So what do we have here ? A total idiot who payed no less than 200 Euros just for having a virtual "item" !!!
Thats definitely for kiddies. Brain - amputated kiddies with too much money, preferably. Really sounds like a mass-market, no ?
The sad bottom line is, I'm playing a SOE MMO right now. I surely hope they wont introduce such crap in my game !
To follow up on your point if I can be so free.
A lot want to escape RL trouble with MMO's, for whatever reason. Confronting people with their financial status that reflects itself in the game isn't a good idea. It will have an adverse effect.
Those games will also emphasize status, and be controlled by addiction. How do you justify putting a value on an item that has no value in real life.
The reason LoN is doing well, is because the people that play EQ/EQ2 usually have a job or family and can afford to be idiots and buy items, kids can't. Claiming it opens the market for kids is backwards, just like SOE.
Maybe he is, maybe he isn't I don't presume to know.I never played SWG and I still think he's an idiot.
SOE is a sub-standard maker of MMO's IMHO and always has been. Their big claim to fame that put them on the map was EQ which even then wasn't anything to write home about. Everything, and I mean everything else they have ever done was a piece of junk that they have had to revamp and salvage. (IMHO) So how does any of this surprise anyone?
So they want to sell items, their games are trash anyway, don't play them.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess all of this Smed and SOE is evil is really all about the NGE, isn't it?
Oh , its better then that but you appear to be a big boy with the internet in front of you. Before you go climbing trees and looking for limbs why don't you check out my credentials. You going to Love that Jestor!
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan
I doubt that.
It will only take 1 court case of a mom taking an MMO company to court because her child spend 1000$ on virtual items. The ball will start rolling.
They're items that don't have a value, you can't sell thin air, because that's what it is.
It's not thin air and if they are ingame items then they do have value. It's no different then add ons in games in Xbox Live or Playstation Network. Saying that a mom can sue because her child spend money is not just wrong, it's a downright stupid comment. I don't claim I'm an expert on law but you clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Just because they are virtual items does not mean that buying or selling them is against the law.
As much as you like to believe I'm sure, Item shops in MMO's are not against the law.
There's no formal legislation on virtual property and trading so you know as little as anyone else does. SOE can't use LoN in 7 US states because it's against the law there fyi.
If a person buys from the LoN store in one of those 7 states where it's illegal (including europe) and there's discussion about the acquisition, I would love to know what would happen.
It wouldn't be that simple.
And what do you think will happen when a parent finds out their child spend thousands of dollars with a click on virtual items without their consent.
You think that will never occur? You think that won't happen? Of course it will. I'd reconsider just treating this as something that insignificant, because it's not.
And you cannot compare an expansion or an extension to a game where actual content is presented to an an item that has no actual value.
This system is stupid. I'm not sure why you can't see this and feel like defending it, but whatever. I think it's a moronic business perspective.
It's pretty funny you live in holland but you can say with certainty that virtual trading isn't illegal.
Well, LoN is illegal in 7 states in the US atm. There is no legislation. And it has been illegal for years because gold seller are tax evaders.
It just proves once again what kind of company SOE is.
There's no formal legislation on virtual property and trading so you know as little as anyone else does. SOE can't use LoN in 7 US states because it's against the law there fyi.
If a person buys from the LoN store in one of those 7 states where it's illegal (including europe) and there's discussion about the acquisition, I would love to know what would happen.
It wouldn't be that simple.
And what do you think will happen when a parent finds out their child spend thousands of dollars with a click on virtual items without their consent.
You think that will never occur? You think that won't happen? Of course it will. I'd reconsider just treating this as something that insignificant, because it's not.
And you cannot compare an expansion or an extension to a game where actual content is presented to an an item that has no actual value.
This system is stupid. I'm not sure why you can't see this and feel like defending it, but whatever. I think it's a moronic business perspective.
Because nobody ever bothered to check on all those companies selling virtual items, right? You're grasping at straws here. Selling virtual content has NEVER been against the law .
What I think a mother will do when she finds out her child spend thousands of dollars on cash shop items? Well if she has the same mindset as you, she would be laughet out of court. An extension such as the horse armor in Oblivion is no different then buying an item in a game like Maple Story or Rappelz, it's content you're paying for and buying and selling virtual content has never been against the law.
Once again I'm not defending the system, I'm putting the facts on the table. I don't like the system either but that is no reason to twist the truth.
Because nobody ever bothered to check on all those companies selling virtual items, right? You're grasping at straws here. Selling virtual content has NEVER been against the law .
Jesus christ, can you look things up before you spew nonsense.
LoN for items is illegal in 7 US states and in europe atm, that's why people were upset they couldn't join. It falls under gambling legislation.
And we were talking about virtual trading here, items and currencies. Not just content, don't change the discussion.
I'm done with your discussion, you obviously have some self interest involved.
I'm more mystified, with that gravity defing noggen of smeds.
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Well I guess if thats what you enjoy doing, have at it.
I still think SOE makes garbage games and its not worth the time and effort to even care about what they do and I wouldn't give them the time of day but thats my opinion.
I disagree , SOE makes good games it's what they do afterwards that makes them the infamous company that they have become.
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Subscription vs F2p w/ CS, heck it's just different payment models, what do they have to do with quality of a game?? To me all game companies are crooks, and good luck convince me subscription game companies are out there doing charity works. If you ppl have so much time on your hand, why not figure a way to fight those private servers, third-party gold sellers, powel levelers, and above all, bot-making corporations?? They are the true evil and real leechers of this industry. I know you can't, because those guys are hiding in countries that own nuclear weapons and can't be touched by US laws.
Average folks in mainstream society can care less about whether subscription model sinks or swims. No one wants to play a game that holds your credit card number hostage for god-knows-how-long. There are enough identity thieves out there, so one fewer person knows about your card number the better. That's the TRUTH. MMO's don't make front page entertainment news, and certainly don't enter people's daily conversation. Adults hate to admit to other adults they play games. Let me tell you this through personal experience: majority of folks out there, including professionals with 6-digit salaries, don't trust subscription-based games. They view them as a money-making scheme trying to get ppl addicted to their games, month after month. And news that ppl died playing WoW certainly don't help that perception a bit.
If f2p with item malls ultimately prevail, so be it. If that model helps pushing MMO into mainstream, more power to them. Consumers will decide which best & fairest f2p games they want to play, and companies will rise to meet their demands. It's that simple. Consumers and market will select the best out of whole rotting lot, and retire the rest. It's none of our concern where industry is heading, and arguing here won't make any difference.
Thirty years ago people in the west viewed Japanese cars as nothing more than inferior tin cans, a "yellow peril" invasion from the orient. Ten years ago it's those "inferior" Korean electronics and Chinese-made goods that scared your parents. Now it's these f2p "azngrinders" that frighten you. Well, Asia is home to 2/3 of the world's population and I wouldn't be surprised if folks there know something we don't.
First off, SOE will not limit micro transactions to just items and even then those items will be most likely just be a thinly desquised mechanic to facilitate character to character money sales for items. The major hook is going to be payment for access to special areas of their game. As seen in EQ2 with their mini adventure packs.
www.gamesinfobase.com/source.php
In a discussion entitled "Subscriptions vs. Micro-Transactions," SonyOnline Entertainment (SOE) president John Smedley said that theupcoming pseudo-MMO action game The Agency (PC, PlayStation 3) would fuse different business models to create a balancing act between attracting players and optimizing profit sources.
Free online play with in-game advertisements, some content accessible via microtransaction, and exclusive areas unlocked through subscriptions will all play a part in The Agency. -John Smedley
Again you will notice Smedley NEVER talks about what makes a game fun, just what he thinks will make cash.
The funny thing is that in order to make money SOE will need you to have a credit card.I am not sure the the RMT market will fail in the states, but I sure think SOE will fail at it. Americans at least prefer flat fees with wireless and internet access, unlike many other areas of the world.
I think the same will hold true for subscriptions based MMOs and SOE will most likely screw this up by overcharging people for half finished products like their very long history shows them to do. Considering SOE has pretty much been kicked out of the asian market with everything they offered so far, I highly doubt he has the insight to bring another cultures payment structure to the west successfully.
The problem is John Smedly is in charge and he is a money man first and formost. He makes decisions based on what he thinks the bottom line will be instead of what will make a great game that will attract players on its own. His choices have really hurt SOE titles. He just doesn't have the pulse of what gamers want anymore.
Maybe he finds a new foothold with children or console gamers, I can't say honestly as I'm not in touch there. So maybe?