Dear OP, While I like the effort I feel what you are saying is misleading. Actually, the OP is still correct. Ill explain by arguing against your points. No matter how much you think a gatecamp will not happen, it happens even if you fly safe. This game is prolly not for someone who doesnt like randomly being killed because the option just stay in safe space the whole time you play is ridiculous. I bet no one here who plays including you can say they havent been gate camped. It's impossible to get gate camped now. Some time ago they gave you an option to warp to 0 km to the gate. YOU can literally warp on top of the gate and then jump to the next system. My second issue is you actually can not catch up to the vets. Honestly you may be useful in groups and etc. but reality is that doesnt mean you are "catching up", you are just fufilling a different role. Trust me i played ever for a couple years and will tell you first hand, some vets will never be caught up to and saying you can be a decent pirate in another ship doesnt change the fact that 1v1 you will get owned by most players playing since the game came out. Yes you can. Your theory is correct if all 100% of all vets kept their account opened since day one, training. That's just not the case. Ive been a part of EVE since beta 1 (October of 2002)and my wife and I were both official forum moderators for eve-online.com for a couple of years. With all of that, our skill points aren't as impressive as you think it is. Simple fact is, the odds of someone being here since the beginning or 3 years ago is pretty rare. If you see a person with MILLIONS of SP then so what? Doesn't mean he's gonna camp your ass. It just means he's got more SP. Its gonna be ok.
Thx for your time
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Do you guys, who still play think that the risk vs . reward system in this game is intact?
yes, I do. If you feel like you dont want to take the chance, you can always buy ship insurance. If you loose your ship, then you will get another. Just like real life....except no ships....just cars
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I look at is this way. If you like the way the game is played and the only thing keeping you away is not having as many SP as a vet, you are doing yourself a disservice by not playing.
I equate it to a 6 year old saying its unfair that he will never be as old as his 12 year old brother. When they are 70 and 76 the difference is minimal. I don't believe EVE is going to be shut down any time soon. Since I started playing, players online have only gone higher. You have time to get closer.
Plus the challenge of the game isn't to be the uberest player around. It is to over come the uber that exist with strategy, teamwork, deception and an adaptive mind. And most improtant, carve out your own niche. I play at 15Mil SP and do not care that someone may have 50. It really doesn't affect what I do and have fun with in game. Sure I have been at odds in this game with high sp players, but with strategy I have thwarted their plans to destroy me most of the time. I haven't lost a ship in over 6 months. That includes solo mining in .2 space with active pirates around.
Again if there are other things you don't like the game for, leave for them. Don't leave because you can't catch a 4 year vet on SP.
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
I agree that gatecampers are no issue, you can be carefull and avoid them, or just stick with high sec for missioning.
I run missions in lowsec, and somtimes you loose a ship, other times you get to loot leftover wreckages from pirates that can sell for millions, I personally gained more then I lost. ( on top of the mission rewards and loot )
Lowsec and pirates are a part of EVE, it is what it makes it fun.
However, telling me with a straight face that newcomers can ever catch up to the vets is just silly.
The Vets have blue prints that basically print money, so they have alot more cash. Therefore they can buy the most expensive implants and train faster.
Add to that the years of skillpoints they already gained, and you can see there is no way to ever catch up.
Yes you can make a viable character that can beat a vet in a certain ship setup. But catchup, never.
Furthermore the combat and mission progression is slow and tedious.
That is why I am having a hard time to getting to the good stuff.
Greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
However, telling me with a straight face that newcomers can ever catch up to the vets is just silly. The Vets have blue prints that basically print money, so they have alot more cash. Therefore they can buy the most expensive implants and train faster. Add to that the years of skillpoints they already gained, and you can see there is no way to ever catch up. Yes you can make a viable character that can beat a vet in a certain ship setup. But catchup, never.
Sorry mate, you failed your research into these points.
Blueprints are no longer locked to a 'select few', not even T2 blueprints. With Invention and simple market purchases, anyone with the right skills can produce just about any module/ship in the game, barring faction ships that you get single-run BPC's through missions (and that's the same for vets and rookies).
As for the years of skillpoints issue, well, I've already stated my disagreement with that. To reiterate: You don't have to have more skillpoints then another player to whip them. You just need to be smarter. And no, you can't expect to pwn vets after three weeks of playing, it takes a mite longer then that.
If you already live in lowsec, you might want to look into POSes and all the various fun things they can do for you, like moon mining, reactions, laboratories, manufacturing... It's an investment, but one that can really bring in the rewards if you're successful.
However, telling me with a straight face that newcomers can ever catch up to the vets is just silly. The Vets have blue prints that basically print money, so they have alot more cash. Therefore they can buy the most expensive implants and train faster. Add to that the years of skillpoints they already gained, and you can see there is no way to ever catch up. Yes you can make a viable character that can beat a vet in a certain ship setup. But catchup, never.
Sorry mate, you failed your research into these points.
Blueprints are no longer locked to a 'select few', not even T2 blueprints. With Invention and simple market purchases, anyone with the right skills can produce just about any module/ship in the game, barring faction ships that you get single-run BPC's through missions (and that's the same for vets and rookies).
As for the years of skillpoints issue, well, I've already stated my disagreement with that. To reiterate: You don't have to have more skillpoints then another player to whip them. You just need to be smarter. And no, you can't expect to pwn vets after three weeks of playing, it takes a mite longer then that.
If you already live in lowsec, you might want to look into POSes and all the various fun things they can do for you, like moon mining, reactions, laboratories, manufacturing... It's an investment, but one that can really bring in the rewards if you're successful.
There is a place between utter care bear wow and the need for a scientific caculator in Eve.
I really hope some one makes a space game that has pvp in it , but a game where the central anchor to the game is not pvp. I think its great that lots of people have fun with Eve online, I also think there is plenty of space in the mmorpg market for another space game (no pun intended). I maintain there are a lot of folks playing Eve for the same reason there were a bunch playing EQ 5 years ago: its the only game in town that comes close. The number of players in non-player corps is a testament to my opinion.
I think the people who think a younger player can go up against one of the older vets whose been around a while are likely the vets themselves. I have a few friends who have been around since nearish server birth and i wouldnt dream of triffeling with them unless the odds were stacked signicantly in my favor.
There are a lot of great concepts in eve and i'll likely be back for a month or two but there are a lot of things ab out this game I dont agree with. Most successful mmos accomodate people who want to pvp when they want to pvp and people who don't want to pvp when they don't want to (I dont think the pvp crowd is necessairly mutually exclusive) but CCP's answer to non pvp is repeitition.
Present company exluded (seriously) I think this game has an inordinate number of jerks too. Every game has jerks but for some reason Eve feels like it has more of the self righteous, arrogant jerks for some reason. (Not to detract from the fact I've met tonns of great folks too).
Take away pvp from eve and you have several systems that are repeatitive time sinks. Exploration, mining, missions, etc.
If you don't like PvP then take every possible measure you can to avoid it. The easiest way is to stay away from PvP is NOT working solo. With a good intel network and some cooperation with other players you can carebear around for months without being killed.
In the end it's all about cooperation. EvE is hard compared to most other games, that's why I like it. It's a nice challange compared to most other games out there. And it doesn't have the same restraints as most other games do either. You can be a small fish in a big ocean and have huge ammounts of fun anyway. But EvE requires you to socialize and work togeather with other people to succeed and survive. EvE doesn't tell you this though, it's a hard learned lesson for most and more an effect of the games mechanics. You just can't play eve SOLO and expect it to be easy.
Solo players in eve are usually very resilient or very experienced and they are either ignorant or willing to take the huge risks involved. Even players in large powerful corporations or alliances can have a hard time when the odds are stacked against them. But the thing that makes eve what it is is RISK. Everything you carry in your ship, everything you have invested in deep space infrastructure, months or even years of work can be lost forever if you'r not careful and open yourself up to attack from someone who wishes to harm you. But it's all true in the reverse aswell. You can fight back with equal means. So even if a gatecamp is a dangerous threat, it's also a juicy target.
Your never immune to attack (unless you stay docked forever), but playing smart and working together with other people will limit your losses and increase your gains.
A reccomendation to people who are having a hard time with eve:
1) Never ever fly SOLO.
2) Never fight fair (bring friends, bait and kill).
3) Never fly what you can't afford to replace (just cus you CAN fly a battleship doesn't mean you should).
4) Spend some time to find a corporation that has the same wants and needs as you do in the game.
5) Minimise the risks (be paranoid, use scouts and don't put all the eggs in the same basket).
6) Protect your assets (by insurance, by planning, by secure cans and by force).
7) Be prepared to negotiate (if you find yourself camped in or unable to proceed in space or in general, use diplomacy and pay someone, either the hostiles or some mercs, you'll still be able to make money if you pay the pirates their "fees").
8) Have fun and learn from your own mistakes as well as others.
I have a few friends who have been around since nearish server birth and i wouldnt dream of triffeling with them unless the odds were stacked signicantly in my favor.
that's where your logic left you. you are right, of course, but you don't know that why or why this supports my point and not yours.
I like to read the fittings on lost ships on killboards. it is very interesting that even the biggest so called vets have mondane, totally standard or sometimes even weak or silly fittings. so it's really not the equipment and therefore not the skills that count.
what counts is skill.
and I am very comfortable with the fact that my personal skill and my personal experience counts. mostly it is about not to click the wrong button or lose focus in a situation that is the deciding factor if you live or die.
what some guys want, is a game that does not reward intelligence and experience and replace it with artificial "int" and "XP", so even the biggest level 70 moron can defeat the really clever level 40 guy.
Originally posted by Askatan Originally posted by Rekindle I have a few friends who have been around since nearish server birth and i wouldnt dream of triffeling with them unless the odds were stacked signicantly in my favor.
that's where your logic left you. you are right, of course, but you don't know that why or why this supports my point and not yours. I like to read the fittings on lost ships on killboards. it is very interesting that even the biggest so called vets have mondane, totally standard or sometimes even weak or silly fittings. so it's really not the equipment and therefore not the skills that count. what counts is skill. and I am very comfortable with the fact that my personal skill and my personal experience counts. mostly it is about not to click the wrong button or lose focus in a situation that is the deciding factor if you live or die. what some guys want, is a game that does not reward intelligence and experience and replace it with artificial "int" and "XP", so even the biggest level 70 moron can defeat the really clever level 40 guy. I thank CCP for not giving in to that
Nah, what I want is a twitch based mmorpg with the deep skill / economic / PvP system of EvE online. What I want is a way to speed up the training of my skills while I am online, like when killing rats or players, all the skills I use improve ( like in SWG pre cu/nge ).
I am playing EVE-Online, because there is no other mmorpg out there ( anymore ) that takes itself seriously and that stayed true to it'z vision. Talking about sandboxy mmorpgs's or at least mmorpg's that offer something more then pve raids and l33t items.
And yes, if I stick with it a few years I will be close to the vets, still think I should be able to progress faster if I put more time in it.
And yes I can get blueprints thru invention, but I thought that these werent the same as the blueprints from the lottery.
Anyway, EVE-Online is a great game, but it is really really hard to get into. Now that may not be so bad.
However the main gripe I got is that the combat system is so sloow, sometimes I fall asleep behind the computer during missions. Then it is time to log off. I never had this with any other mmorpg.
And imho, before you get to the PvP and stuff, one has to play at least tome PvE, cause you need to train skills and need to earn money, how else are you going to get to the PvP part? You can join a corp right away you say? Nah, most corps that are worthy of joining have a skill limit.
Greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Hm, most corps I've found worthy of calling the name have had no skill limit, but they do not recruit completely indiscriminately.
Speed of skill training is dictated by your attributes; If you want faster training, you can act ingame to get more ISK, and thus be able to install better sets of implants into your characters head, raising his/her attributes and shortening skill training times.
Direct 'grind for sp' mechanic would imo just unbalance the game and make it possible to grind up characters to medium-high skillpoints for selling on the market or on the RL money market.
Yes, you get 'only' Blueprint Copies through Invention, with limited amount of how much you can produce before you need to Invent again, and the lottery gave Blueprint Originals, which you don't need to invent over and over again. However, BPC's are good enough to produce the needed amounts of items. I'm not sure if CCP removed the T2 BPO's from the game, but I heard a rumour to that effect. Anyways, with Invention, the price of most-all T2 items plummeted.
Combat system slow? Well, doing missions in a well-tanked low dps ship it might feel so... But trust me, try some PVP and you'll not be drowsing. I've done my share of small-group and fleet pvp, but I've had a little break from it, and now I'm kind of scared to go back to do it again, because it's just so intense and I'm sooo rusty right now.
If you're interested in a twitch-based space MMO with similar goals as to EVE, I suggest keeping an eye on www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/ Infinity: The Quest For Earth. It's not out yet, projected at late 2009 at the moment I think.
There are only so many ways you can fit any given ship in EVE for PvP. While vets my have a lot more level 5 skills trained up they can only use those skills that effect their modules and ship. Having great level 5 passive shield tanking skills does not mean jack squat when you are active armor tanking in a ship. The skills used that effect PvP and fittings are limited to your ship and modules. So those saying that a 6 month to 1 year play cannot compete with a 4-5 year vet is being very misleading considering how only a certain amount of skills are used for any given PvP ship setup. A quick use of the applications EVEMON and EFT ( EvE Fitting Tool ) will give you all the information needed for what skills are effect with any given PvP ship setup.
Vets have the advantage in that they can fly more ships and switch to several PvP setups and not have to train up many skills if any but that is about it. If you are a new player and have proper guidance from your corp mates then you can fit yourself a frigate, cruiser or battle cruiser with a effective pvp setup and then only focus on training skills that effect that ship and it's module setup for PvP and still be very effective. Again it seems some people are being actively misleading or are just plain clueless. After all there are only so many ways to fit a frigate, cruiser, or battle cruiser in this game and those ships are the mainstay of many a PvP fight in EVE. Larger ships have more to worry about but rarely will anyone be risking a billion ISK ship in a fight in ISK.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
I'm not quite sure why we have to rehash this topic every other month. The bottom line that some people cannot grasp with EVE is that it is a sandbox game in regards to everything. Nothing is linear, and for some reason some players cannot get out of the linear mentality. They feel they must progress a character in a set fashion, to follow some order. Well, if you play EVE for order or linear progression you are going to be disappointed. If you play EVE to be "uber", you are going to be disappointed. EVE is not an easy game to comprehend in it's entirety, however it is an easy game to have fun in, if you choose to open your mind and have fun.
Don't forget about high-sec extortion corps, nothing says loving like a one-sided war from a veteran corporation with a pricetag attached.
Well, there's ways to deal with that too. One of them is not creating your own corp before you have some idea of what you do. Being in the npc corps and having a 'group chat' channel of your own for your friends is enough for most purposes.
Another thing about these is deciding how you respond: Do you pay up, move, disband and restart a corp, or fight back and how to do that, or if you can hire/recruit some more experienced players to help...
You can deal with that, just as easily if not easier then you can deal with lowsec gate campers. But yes, in EVE, not everyone loves you and wants good things for you. It's a tough world, but remember: "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."
Not everything is as it seems. Scams are legal, and just because that T1 frigate is all alone in .2 space, does not mean go in and attack it! (cause it ain't alone).
This made me laugh out loud. It's like a frickin Eve Haiku.. so true and speaks volumes. Understand this, and you will understand much of Eve.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
The OP has written a good post addressing all aspects of the game that new people dont fully understand. And is spot on, on all he said.
This game is unforc a bit too advanced for some players, who are either too young or do not have the attention span to deal with all the aspects of the game.
If you dont understand what the OP has written then this game is not for you and i advise you go find something a bit easier to play!
Ill put this as politely as possible- just because people are debating some of the finer points of the game and depicting certain concepts with less than total perfect feeling feedback does not immediately constitute some inability or lack of intelligence.
I get so sick and tired of the concept that smarter people play one game and dumber people play other games. Any game with 100k people or more is going to have a cross section of people and coming on here saying Eve is for smart people who get it is just not right IMHO.
Therein however, you have illustrated a certain point of view that has kept this game with the taste it has in certain people's mouths. Again, I'm not tryign to take anything away from the game for those that like it but Eve is for smart players does not exempt eve from public scrutinity.
Someone can do better, not so sure if its CCP....we'll see.
I suppose all 10 million people playing WoW are less elightened.
Hi, I am one of those players that read a little bit about EVE and was concerned about some of those points that the OP addressed. I found the sandbox and open PvP approach very exciting and decided to give it a shot. I read most of this thread and feel I need to point out that it actually (further) turned me off of the game after my impressions with the trial period.
1) First of all, I noticed from the PvP discussions, and gaining skill points that EVE-Online appears to be nothing more than another class-based "rock-paper-scissors" approach to MMORPG PvP, only the classes are ships and you "level up" that class by training the appropriate skill points, only in an overwhelming and bloated fashion.
2)Maxing skill points for a role of choice takes an incredible amount of time. Even those debunking the myth of "never catch up" admit it will take months just to practice ONE aspect of the game in line with the vets. That is quite the investment of time just to begin being competitive.
3)From this thread I can see the community really gets themselves off on grasping the "complexity" of the game. It takes everyone some time to learn the game, there is nothing special about that.
Now I can appreciate all of the pirate mechanics, free PvP and the high-risk environment that carebears would consider griefing, but everything, especially the "never catch up" myth is overshadowed by this very fact of EVE (yes I'm drifting a bit off topic here):
Everything takes a very long time to do.
Learning it, making money, raising skills, and so forth. It reminds me of Everquest, where the lack of content was throttled by an incredibly slow pace.
Which is cool if you like that kind of pacing, but don't pretend it makes the game deep and involving. I'm sure many of the fans are already painting me as ADD / impatient / unable to appreciate the fine wine of gaming (oh and what a fine humble community it must be!). All I will say to that is hey, I like to think too, but I also like to do it quickly.
Hi, I am one of those players that read a little bit about EVE and was concerned about some of those points that the OP addressed. I found the sandbox and open PvP approach very exciting and decided to give it a shot. I read most of this thread and feel I need to point out that it actually (further) turned me off of the game after my impressions with the trial period. 1) First of all, I noticed from the PvP discussions, and gaining skill points that EVE-Online appears to be nothing more than another class-based "rock-paper-scissors" approach to MMORPG PvP, only the classes are ships and you "level up" that class by training the appropriate skill points, only in an overwhelming and bloated fashion. 2)Maxing skill points for a role of choice takes an incredible amount of time. Even those debunking the myth of "never catch up" admit it will take months just to practice ONE aspect of the game in line with the vets. That is quite the investment of time just to begin being competitive. 3)From this thread I can see the community really gets themselves off on grasping the "complexity" of the game. It takes everyone some time to learn the game, there is nothing special about that.
Now I can appreciate all of the pirate mechanics, free PvP and the high-risk environment that carebears would consider griefing, but everything, especially the "never catch up" myth is overshadowed by this very fact of EVE (yes I'm drifting a bit off topic here):
Everything takes a very long time to do. Learning it, making money, raising skills, and so forth. It reminds me of Everquest, where the lack of content was throttled by an incredibly slow pace. Which is cool if you like that kind of pacing, but don't pretend it makes the game deep and involving. I'm sure many of the fans are already painting me as ADD / impatient / unable to appreciate the fine wine of gaming (oh and what a fine humble community it must be!). All I will say to that is hey, I like to think too, but I also like to do it quickly.
Actualy after the recent expansions a new character can spec in far less time than a char created pre RMR. There is also a fine line between being competitive and being fully speced. But if you look at eve and expect to be succesfull in a solo pvp career in a very short amount of time it aint going to happen. But if you accept that pvp in EvE is usualy made in groups (gangs) where each player has a certain role you`ll find out that being competitive in a certain area regarding pvp is more than enough. And to be competitve takes a new player a month or so of training (in wich he can learn the game mechanics).
One thing that Eve vets should probably remember is that the way you look at skill training changes drastically as you spend more time in the game. I remember as a noob in eve thinking "oh my god! 8 hours til this stupid skill is done, I need to set my alarm for 4 AM so I can change it!" Three years later I was thinking "wow, I could be flying a rorqual in just 35 days... that's like NOTHING..."
The PvP in eve is thrilling because everyone know the stakes involved. The combat interface really is point and click, but tactics are absolutely critical and can be very complex. More importantly, PREPARATION, intelligence gathering, scouting, and common sense determine who wins battles. Really big fleet battles can be the culmination of months of preparation. Here's my point: Eve will appeal to those who like to make an in depth analysis of a very complicated system and figure out how to work that system to their advantage. If you want a game that you can turn on and grind your way to badass status in a week (or a month or two) then Eve will never be your game, and that's cool.
One of the advantages of such a complex world is that you can ALWAYS find new ways to work things to your advantage. People have started lotteries, moon scanning services, hi sec research POS with rented slots, POS fuel delivery sevices, espionage services, corps that charge to allow for jump clone access.. these are all things that players have figured out and created, and the potential is limitless.
It is completely obvious that a new player in Eve will never have the skillpoints of a 4 year vet, but in Eve more than any other game YOU ARE NOT YOUR SKILLPOINTS... you are your own intelligence. If you make a better analysis of the system and find a way to adapt your available tools in an effective way, you will be a success.
As for claims that Eve player are elitist, well that is probably true. It is unfair and foolish to say that people playing games like WoW and LOTRO are not as smart as Eve players, but it is ABSOLUTELY true to say that people that do not have the intelligence and patience to analyze and adapt to the world of Eve will never last in the game. You may be a member of MENSA and simply find the world of Eve to be pointless and uninteresting.. once again it is unfair to say that just because someone doesn't like the game that they aren't smart.
The bottom line, however, is that you have to be very patient and pretty smart to get anywhere in Eve.. you can't just level up by killing stuff. And as a new player, all you really need is one good idea well implemented to make you wealthy and powerful. And with a couple of friends and innovative tactics you can take down damn near any player in the game (if you take the time to gather intelligence, fit your ships properly, and execute a well planned attack). How quickly you "catch up" in eve has everything to do with how quickly you can analyze a situation and make it work to your advantage. That's it.
Eve will never appeal to some people and that is completely OK. Hell, I had to retire because one of the downsides of being really involved in many aspects of the game is that it starts to take HUGE amounts of time just to manage your universe.. especially if you get really involved in corporation or alliance leadership and politics. For those of us that are thrilled by the prospect of watching plans and ideas grow over the course of years (with a few critical life or death struggles thrown in), Eve will always be awe inspiring. To those that are sick of us talking about how great this game is, please forgive us and cut us a little slack. I have graduate and professional degrees, but Eve taught me things about politics, economics, and human nature that I never learned in school or business. I have always said that Eve is a human nature laboratory first, and a pretend internet spaceship game second. What can I say, I love it and I actually feel a debt of gratitude to the game and community.
So maybe we can reach an agreement: those of us that love Eve can stop saying the people that don't like the game are all stupid (because they aren't) and all of you that don't like Eve can stop attacking the game and playerbase because it's not a game you care for.
There is a free, EASY to access 14 day trial. There are people in the community that love to help new folks get established (if those new folks are willing to do a little research like we did when we all started). If you like it, then welcome to the family. If you don't like it, that's cool too... maybe you can help some of us Eve people out when we drop by to check out your favorite game. But you CAN catch up.. hell, you can become a major powerplayer in the game with just one new, good idea well executed. That's one of the things that makes Eve great.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
Thanks for a good response there Enkindu. The problem I'm having is I really want to like EVE, it has the kind of approach to an MMORPG I would look for, but as many people know, I am terrified of comittment. I might as well de-rail this thread with a more specific question about how I would fit in:
Granted, I find the economic aspect a cool feature, but not for me. I play games with a shameless militaristic interest, i.e. a serious interest in battle tactics and command. The good news is, I am damn good at it. The bad news is, I have very little interest in personal economics in games. I usually pawn off my junk for just enough money to continue to fight because I am so severely disinterested in wheeling and dealing in a game and just like to engage in mass combat. Will I get hooked? Cause I may be willing to invest some time. . .
As long as we're at it, I'll mention that I don't have much freetime and don't know anyone else that plays.
I played EvE. - You really cannot catch up to vets.
- Gatecampers really do ruin the game.
- There are no avatars or ship interiors or livable spaces. You just play a spaceship.
- Combat = click 'orbit', click 'activate gun', watch for a while while hovering over your warp button to escape if needed. No offense. You wrote a great article and you're entitled to your opinion. But so am I. And just to be clear... I liked the game at the very beginning, but it got tedious trying to get any good ships. You gotta grind and grind through missions. Then you get what you think is a decent ship, and lose it in .15 seconds to a gate camper.
- Phos
Nonsense, Eve's avatar generation is second only to City of Heroes.
I had immense amounts of fun morphing my face. Really top notch avatar customisation. Eve is the only other game I know where the players host beauty competitons to judge each others creations.
Petrovsak's appraisal has been closest to my own. I can't say I especially agreewith the OPs opinion.
With regards to losing shiops, I concur with another players statement, never fly your best ship. Only the disposable ones.
Petrovsk, here's my honest asessment (can you tell I have too much time on my hands today?? lol):
Eve is realistic in that all combat is heavily dependent on logistics and economics. One of the most important things to remember in the game is "don't fly what you can't afford to lose." Skills, clones, modules, insurance, and ships all cost money to keep up to date so you MUST make cash somehow to be able to fight. There are people that apparently do this through PvP, pirating and taking people's stuff.. but I'm definitely the wrong person to ask about that. There is PvE combat that will allow you to make money in the form of missions (quests) and ratting (killing NPC pirates for loot and bounties).
If you truly are gifted in the area of tactics and leadership, I can tell you that talented FCs (fleet commanders) are quite possibly the most revered people in the game since they generally make or break any type of fleet combat. Trouble is you need an intimate understanding of the capabilities of all of the ships under your command to do this effectively. I suppose you could have this without having personally flown many classes of ships but most people would be pretty skeptical looking at a young character wanteing to FC.
Your question makes me think most specifically of a course that used to be taught by a corp called Agony Unleashed. You had to pay to take it and there were some (pretty basic) skill requirements, but they would basically show you how to turn a small fleet of T1 frigates into an effective PvP killing machine.. basically by disabling or bypassing the defenses of much larger and more advanced ships by using proper tactics. I never took the class, but everyone I know that did said it was awesome. I don't even know if it is still around.
My point is this: if you really wanted to, and were willing to take the time to learn, and if you could find people willing to follow you, you could have your own little wolfpack of marauding T1 frigate hellians in short order in the game. But your tactics and fitting would have to be impeccable.. any sloppiness or mistakes would likely result in you getting your arse handed to you an a platter. And keep in mind this type of play would place you solidly in the "player pirate" category, which means carbears/ antipirates (like I was) would try to kill you whenever they could.
Once again, the trial is free. No commitment to fear there.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
Thanks again for some good feedback. Yes I didn't mean to give the impression I would leap in expecting to be an FC, nor would I want to until I am personally comfortable with what every ship does (and hopefully every player's capability if I can grow in a good corporation), but I would enjoy learning to do so by being a grunt. My "plan," from what I've read about EVE so far, would be to use nothing but cheap ships in a suicidal fashion. What would bore me to death is having to mine for hours between a short skirmish just to support this habit, which would make me quit. I don't mind some peaceful gathering every now and then. Pirating does sound interesting though. . . I won't be Petrovsk in game, don't look for me! I suppose I'll try to learn the game some more, I have a week left on the trial. Sold! You elitist jerks!
Speaking of elitist, I will say there is some merit to the attitude after browsing the EVE forums. I saw a thread without one garbled block of angry text (tm)!
Comments
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
yes, I do. If you feel like you dont want to take the chance, you can always buy ship insurance. If you loose your ship, then you will get another. Just like real life....except no ships....just cars
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
"catch up"
I look at is this way. If you like the way the game is played and the only thing keeping you away is not having as many SP as a vet, you are doing yourself a disservice by not playing.
I equate it to a 6 year old saying its unfair that he will never be as old as his 12 year old brother. When they are 70 and 76 the difference is minimal. I don't believe EVE is going to be shut down any time soon. Since I started playing, players online have only gone higher. You have time to get closer.
Plus the challenge of the game isn't to be the uberest player around. It is to over come the uber that exist with strategy, teamwork, deception and an adaptive mind. And most improtant, carve out your own niche. I play at 15Mil SP and do not care that someone may have 50. It really doesn't affect what I do and have fun with in game. Sure I have been at odds in this game with high sp players, but with strategy I have thwarted their plans to destroy me most of the time. I haven't lost a ship in over 6 months. That includes solo mining in .2 space with active pirates around.
Again if there are other things you don't like the game for, leave for them. Don't leave because you can't catch a 4 year vet on SP.
"Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic
I agree that gatecampers are no issue, you can be carefull and avoid them, or just stick with high sec for missioning.
I run missions in lowsec, and somtimes you loose a ship, other times you get to loot leftover wreckages from pirates that can sell for millions, I personally gained more then I lost. ( on top of the mission rewards and loot )
Lowsec and pirates are a part of EVE, it is what it makes it fun.
However, telling me with a straight face that newcomers can ever catch up to the vets is just silly.
The Vets have blue prints that basically print money, so they have alot more cash. Therefore they can buy the most expensive implants and train faster.
Add to that the years of skillpoints they already gained, and you can see there is no way to ever catch up.
Yes you can make a viable character that can beat a vet in a certain ship setup. But catchup, never.
Furthermore the combat and mission progression is slow and tedious.
That is why I am having a hard time to getting to the good stuff.
Greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Blueprints are no longer locked to a 'select few', not even T2 blueprints. With Invention and simple market purchases, anyone with the right skills can produce just about any module/ship in the game, barring faction ships that you get single-run BPC's through missions (and that's the same for vets and rookies).
As for the years of skillpoints issue, well, I've already stated my disagreement with that. To reiterate: You don't have to have more skillpoints then another player to whip them. You just need to be smarter. And no, you can't expect to pwn vets after three weeks of playing, it takes a mite longer then that.
If you already live in lowsec, you might want to look into POSes and all the various fun things they can do for you, like moon mining, reactions, laboratories, manufacturing... It's an investment, but one that can really bring in the rewards if you're successful.
Blueprints are no longer locked to a 'select few', not even T2 blueprints. With Invention and simple market purchases, anyone with the right skills can produce just about any module/ship in the game, barring faction ships that you get single-run BPC's through missions (and that's the same for vets and rookies).
As for the years of skillpoints issue, well, I've already stated my disagreement with that. To reiterate: You don't have to have more skillpoints then another player to whip them. You just need to be smarter. And no, you can't expect to pwn vets after three weeks of playing, it takes a mite longer then that.
If you already live in lowsec, you might want to look into POSes and all the various fun things they can do for you, like moon mining, reactions, laboratories, manufacturing... It's an investment, but one that can really bring in the rewards if you're successful.
There is a place between utter care bear wow and the need for a scientific caculator in Eve.
I really hope some one makes a space game that has pvp in it , but a game where the central anchor to the game is not pvp. I think its great that lots of people have fun with Eve online, I also think there is plenty of space in the mmorpg market for another space game (no pun intended). I maintain there are a lot of folks playing Eve for the same reason there were a bunch playing EQ 5 years ago: its the only game in town that comes close. The number of players in non-player corps is a testament to my opinion.
I think the people who think a younger player can go up against one of the older vets whose been around a while are likely the vets themselves. I have a few friends who have been around since nearish server birth and i wouldnt dream of triffeling with them unless the odds were stacked signicantly in my favor.
There are a lot of great concepts in eve and i'll likely be back for a month or two but there are a lot of things ab out this game I dont agree with. Most successful mmos accomodate people who want to pvp when they want to pvp and people who don't want to pvp when they don't want to (I dont think the pvp crowd is necessairly mutually exclusive) but CCP's answer to non pvp is repeitition.
Present company exluded (seriously) I think this game has an inordinate number of jerks too. Every game has jerks but for some reason Eve feels like it has more of the self righteous, arrogant jerks for some reason. (Not to detract from the fact I've met tonns of great folks too).
Take away pvp from eve and you have several systems that are repeatitive time sinks. Exploration, mining, missions, etc.
If you don't like PvP then take every possible measure you can to avoid it. The easiest way is to stay away from PvP is NOT working solo. With a good intel network and some cooperation with other players you can carebear around for months without being killed.
In the end it's all about cooperation. EvE is hard compared to most other games, that's why I like it. It's a nice challange compared to most other games out there. And it doesn't have the same restraints as most other games do either. You can be a small fish in a big ocean and have huge ammounts of fun anyway. But EvE requires you to socialize and work togeather with other people to succeed and survive. EvE doesn't tell you this though, it's a hard learned lesson for most and more an effect of the games mechanics. You just can't play eve SOLO and expect it to be easy.
Solo players in eve are usually very resilient or very experienced and they are either ignorant or willing to take the huge risks involved. Even players in large powerful corporations or alliances can have a hard time when the odds are stacked against them. But the thing that makes eve what it is is RISK. Everything you carry in your ship, everything you have invested in deep space infrastructure, months or even years of work can be lost forever if you'r not careful and open yourself up to attack from someone who wishes to harm you. But it's all true in the reverse aswell. You can fight back with equal means. So even if a gatecamp is a dangerous threat, it's also a juicy target.
Your never immune to attack (unless you stay docked forever), but playing smart and working together with other people will limit your losses and increase your gains.
A reccomendation to people who are having a hard time with eve:
1) Never ever fly SOLO.
2) Never fight fair (bring friends, bait and kill).
3) Never fly what you can't afford to replace (just cus you CAN fly a battleship doesn't mean you should).
4) Spend some time to find a corporation that has the same wants and needs as you do in the game.
5) Minimise the risks (be paranoid, use scouts and don't put all the eggs in the same basket).
6) Protect your assets (by insurance, by planning, by secure cans and by force).
7) Be prepared to negotiate (if you find yourself camped in or unable to proceed in space or in general, use diplomacy and pay someone, either the hostiles or some mercs, you'll still be able to make money if you pay the pirates their "fees").
8) Have fun and learn from your own mistakes as well as others.
that's where your logic left you. you are right, of course, but you don't know that why or why this supports my point and not yours.
I like to read the fittings on lost ships on killboards. it is very interesting that even the biggest so called vets have mondane, totally standard or sometimes even weak or silly fittings. so it's really not the equipment and therefore not the skills that count.
what counts is skill.
and I am very comfortable with the fact that my personal skill and my personal experience counts. mostly it is about not to click the wrong button or lose focus in a situation that is the deciding factor if you live or die.
what some guys want, is a game that does not reward intelligence and experience and replace it with artificial "int" and "XP", so even the biggest level 70 moron can defeat the really clever level 40 guy.
I thank CCP for not giving in to that
that's where your logic left you. you are right, of course, but you don't know that why or why this supports my point and not yours.
I like to read the fittings on lost ships on killboards. it is very interesting that even the biggest so called vets have mondane, totally standard or sometimes even weak or silly fittings. so it's really not the equipment and therefore not the skills that count.
what counts is skill.
and I am very comfortable with the fact that my personal skill and my personal experience counts. mostly it is about not to click the wrong button or lose focus in a situation that is the deciding factor if you live or die.
what some guys want, is a game that does not reward intelligence and experience and replace it with artificial "int" and "XP", so even the biggest level 70 moron can defeat the really clever level 40 guy.
I thank CCP for not giving in to that
Nah, what I want is a twitch based mmorpg with the deep skill / economic / PvP system of EvE online.
What I want is a way to speed up the training of my skills while I am online, like when killing rats or players, all the skills I use improve ( like in SWG pre cu/nge ).
I am playing EVE-Online, because there is no other mmorpg out there ( anymore ) that takes itself seriously and that stayed true to it'z vision. Talking about sandboxy mmorpgs's or at least mmorpg's that offer something more then pve raids and l33t items.
And yes, if I stick with it a few years I will be close to the vets, still think I should be able to progress faster if I put more time in it.
And yes I can get blueprints thru invention, but I thought that these werent the same as the blueprints from the lottery.
Anyway, EVE-Online is a great game, but it is really really hard to get into. Now that may not be so bad.
However the main gripe I got is that the combat system is so sloow, sometimes I fall asleep behind the computer during missions. Then it is time to log off. I never had this with any other mmorpg.
And imho, before you get to the PvP and stuff, one has to play at least tome PvE, cause you need to train skills and need to earn money, how else are you going to get to the PvP part?
You can join a corp right away you say? Nah, most corps that are worthy of joining have a skill limit.
Greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Hm, most corps I've found worthy of calling the name have had no skill limit, but they do not recruit completely indiscriminately.
Speed of skill training is dictated by your attributes; If you want faster training, you can act ingame to get more ISK, and thus be able to install better sets of implants into your characters head, raising his/her attributes and shortening skill training times.
Direct 'grind for sp' mechanic would imo just unbalance the game and make it possible to grind up characters to medium-high skillpoints for selling on the market or on the RL money market.
Yes, you get 'only' Blueprint Copies through Invention, with limited amount of how much you can produce before you need to Invent again, and the lottery gave Blueprint Originals, which you don't need to invent over and over again. However, BPC's are good enough to produce the needed amounts of items. I'm not sure if CCP removed the T2 BPO's from the game, but I heard a rumour to that effect. Anyways, with Invention, the price of most-all T2 items plummeted.
Combat system slow? Well, doing missions in a well-tanked low dps ship it might feel so... But trust me, try some PVP and you'll not be drowsing. I've done my share of small-group and fleet pvp, but I've had a little break from it, and now I'm kind of scared to go back to do it again, because it's just so intense and I'm sooo rusty right now.
If you're interested in a twitch-based space MMO with similar goals as to EVE, I suggest keeping an eye on www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/ Infinity: The Quest For Earth. It's not out yet, projected at late 2009 at the moment I think.
Tech 2 BPOs are still in the game, I just sold one
There are only so many ways you can fit any given ship in EVE for PvP. While vets my have a lot more level 5 skills trained up they can only use those skills that effect their modules and ship. Having great level 5 passive shield tanking skills does not mean jack squat when you are active armor tanking in a ship. The skills used that effect PvP and fittings are limited to your ship and modules. So those saying that a 6 month to 1 year play cannot compete with a 4-5 year vet is being very misleading considering how only a certain amount of skills are used for any given PvP ship setup. A quick use of the applications EVEMON and EFT ( EvE Fitting Tool ) will give you all the information needed for what skills are effect with any given PvP ship setup.
Vets have the advantage in that they can fly more ships and switch to several PvP setups and not have to train up many skills if any but that is about it. If you are a new player and have proper guidance from your corp mates then you can fit yourself a frigate, cruiser or battle cruiser with a effective pvp setup and then only focus on training skills that effect that ship and it's module setup for PvP and still be very effective. Again it seems some people are being actively misleading or are just plain clueless. After all there are only so many ways to fit a frigate, cruiser, or battle cruiser in this game and those ships are the mainstay of many a PvP fight in EVE. Larger ships have more to worry about but rarely will anyone be risking a billion ISK ship in a fight in ISK.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Don't forget about high-sec extortion corps, nothing says loving like a one-sided war from a veteran corporation with a pricetag attached.
I'm not quite sure why we have to rehash this topic every other month. The bottom line that some people cannot grasp with EVE is that it is a sandbox game in regards to everything. Nothing is linear, and for some reason some players cannot get out of the linear mentality. They feel they must progress a character in a set fashion, to follow some order. Well, if you play EVE for order or linear progression you are going to be disappointed. If you play EVE to be "uber", you are going to be disappointed. EVE is not an easy game to comprehend in it's entirety, however it is an easy game to have fun in, if you choose to open your mind and have fun.
Another thing about these is deciding how you respond: Do you pay up, move, disband and restart a corp, or fight back and how to do that, or if you can hire/recruit some more experienced players to help...
You can deal with that, just as easily if not easier then you can deal with lowsec gate campers. But yes, in EVE, not everyone loves you and wants good things for you. It's a tough world, but remember: "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."
Originally posted by Wolfclaws:
Not everything is as it seems. Scams are legal, and just because that T1 frigate is all alone in .2 space, does not mean go in and attack it! (cause it ain't alone).
This made me laugh out loud. It's like a frickin Eve Haiku.. so true and speaks volumes. Understand this, and you will understand much of Eve.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
The OP has written a good post addressing all aspects of the game that new people dont fully understand. And is spot on, on all he said.
This game is unforc a bit too advanced for some players, who are either too young or do not have the attention span to deal with all the aspects of the game.
If you dont understand what the OP has written then this game is not for you and i advise you go find something a bit easier to play!
Ill put this as politely as possible- just because people are debating some of the finer points of the game and depicting certain concepts with less than total perfect feeling feedback does not immediately constitute some inability or lack of intelligence.
I get so sick and tired of the concept that smarter people play one game and dumber people play other games. Any game with 100k people or more is going to have a cross section of people and coming on here saying Eve is for smart people who get it is just not right IMHO.
Therein however, you have illustrated a certain point of view that has kept this game with the taste it has in certain people's mouths. Again, I'm not tryign to take anything away from the game for those that like it but Eve is for smart players does not exempt eve from public scrutinity.
Someone can do better, not so sure if its CCP....we'll see.
I suppose all 10 million people playing WoW are less elightened.
Hi, I am one of those players that read a little bit about EVE and was concerned about some of those points that the OP addressed. I found the sandbox and open PvP approach very exciting and decided to give it a shot. I read most of this thread and feel I need to point out that it actually (further) turned me off of the game after my impressions with the trial period.
1) First of all, I noticed from the PvP discussions, and gaining skill points that EVE-Online appears to be nothing more than another class-based "rock-paper-scissors" approach to MMORPG PvP, only the classes are ships and you "level up" that class by training the appropriate skill points, only in an overwhelming and bloated fashion.
2)Maxing skill points for a role of choice takes an incredible amount of time. Even those debunking the myth of "never catch up" admit it will take months just to practice ONE aspect of the game in line with the vets. That is quite the investment of time just to begin being competitive.
3)From this thread I can see the community really gets themselves off on grasping the "complexity" of the game. It takes everyone some time to learn the game, there is nothing special about that.
Now I can appreciate all of the pirate mechanics, free PvP and the high-risk environment that carebears would consider griefing, but everything, especially the "never catch up" myth is overshadowed by this very fact of EVE (yes I'm drifting a bit off topic here):
Everything takes a very long time to do.
Learning it, making money, raising skills, and so forth. It reminds me of Everquest, where the lack of content was throttled by an incredibly slow pace.
Which is cool if you like that kind of pacing, but don't pretend it makes the game deep and involving. I'm sure many of the fans are already painting me as ADD / impatient / unable to appreciate the fine wine of gaming (oh and what a fine humble community it must be!). All I will say to that is hey, I like to think too, but I also like to do it quickly.
Actualy after the recent expansions a new character can spec in far less time than a char created pre RMR. There is also a fine line between being competitive and being fully speced. But if you look at eve and expect to be succesfull in a solo pvp career in a very short amount of time it aint going to happen. But if you accept that pvp in EvE is usualy made in groups (gangs) where each player has a certain role you`ll find out that being competitive in a certain area regarding pvp is more than enough. And to be competitve takes a new player a month or so of training (in wich he can learn the game mechanics).
One thing that Eve vets should probably remember is that the way you look at skill training changes drastically as you spend more time in the game. I remember as a noob in eve thinking "oh my god! 8 hours til this stupid skill is done, I need to set my alarm for 4 AM so I can change it!" Three years later I was thinking "wow, I could be flying a rorqual in just 35 days... that's like NOTHING..."
The PvP in eve is thrilling because everyone know the stakes involved. The combat interface really is point and click, but tactics are absolutely critical and can be very complex. More importantly, PREPARATION, intelligence gathering, scouting, and common sense determine who wins battles. Really big fleet battles can be the culmination of months of preparation. Here's my point: Eve will appeal to those who like to make an in depth analysis of a very complicated system and figure out how to work that system to their advantage. If you want a game that you can turn on and grind your way to badass status in a week (or a month or two) then Eve will never be your game, and that's cool.
One of the advantages of such a complex world is that you can ALWAYS find new ways to work things to your advantage. People have started lotteries, moon scanning services, hi sec research POS with rented slots, POS fuel delivery sevices, espionage services, corps that charge to allow for jump clone access.. these are all things that players have figured out and created, and the potential is limitless.
It is completely obvious that a new player in Eve will never have the skillpoints of a 4 year vet, but in Eve more than any other game YOU ARE NOT YOUR SKILLPOINTS... you are your own intelligence. If you make a better analysis of the system and find a way to adapt your available tools in an effective way, you will be a success.
As for claims that Eve player are elitist, well that is probably true. It is unfair and foolish to say that people playing games like WoW and LOTRO are not as smart as Eve players, but it is ABSOLUTELY true to say that people that do not have the intelligence and patience to analyze and adapt to the world of Eve will never last in the game. You may be a member of MENSA and simply find the world of Eve to be pointless and uninteresting.. once again it is unfair to say that just because someone doesn't like the game that they aren't smart.
The bottom line, however, is that you have to be very patient and pretty smart to get anywhere in Eve.. you can't just level up by killing stuff. And as a new player, all you really need is one good idea well implemented to make you wealthy and powerful. And with a couple of friends and innovative tactics you can take down damn near any player in the game (if you take the time to gather intelligence, fit your ships properly, and execute a well planned attack). How quickly you "catch up" in eve has everything to do with how quickly you can analyze a situation and make it work to your advantage. That's it.
Eve will never appeal to some people and that is completely OK. Hell, I had to retire because one of the downsides of being really involved in many aspects of the game is that it starts to take HUGE amounts of time just to manage your universe.. especially if you get really involved in corporation or alliance leadership and politics. For those of us that are thrilled by the prospect of watching plans and ideas grow over the course of years (with a few critical life or death struggles thrown in), Eve will always be awe inspiring. To those that are sick of us talking about how great this game is, please forgive us and cut us a little slack. I have graduate and professional degrees, but Eve taught me things about politics, economics, and human nature that I never learned in school or business. I have always said that Eve is a human nature laboratory first, and a pretend internet spaceship game second. What can I say, I love it and I actually feel a debt of gratitude to the game and community.
So maybe we can reach an agreement: those of us that love Eve can stop saying the people that don't like the game are all stupid (because they aren't) and all of you that don't like Eve can stop attacking the game and playerbase because it's not a game you care for.
There is a free, EASY to access 14 day trial. There are people in the community that love to help new folks get established (if those new folks are willing to do a little research like we did when we all started). If you like it, then welcome to the family. If you don't like it, that's cool too... maybe you can help some of us Eve people out when we drop by to check out your favorite game. But you CAN catch up.. hell, you can become a major powerplayer in the game with just one new, good idea well executed. That's one of the things that makes Eve great.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
Thanks for a good response there Enkindu. The problem I'm having is I really want to like EVE, it has the kind of approach to an MMORPG I would look for, but as many people know, I am terrified of comittment. I might as well de-rail this thread with a more specific question about how I would fit in:
Granted, I find the economic aspect a cool feature, but not for me. I play games with a shameless militaristic interest, i.e. a serious interest in battle tactics and command. The good news is, I am damn good at it.
The bad news is, I have very little interest in personal economics in games. I usually pawn off my junk for just enough money to continue to fight because I am so severely disinterested in wheeling and dealing in a game and just like to engage in mass combat. Will I get hooked? Cause I may be willing to invest some time. . .
As long as we're at it, I'll mention that I don't have much freetime and don't know anyone else that plays.
SORRY FOR DERAILING!
Nonsense, Eve's avatar generation is second only to City of Heroes.
I had immense amounts of fun morphing my face. Really top notch avatar customisation. Eve is the only other game I know where the players host beauty competitons to judge each others creations.
Petrovsak's appraisal has been closest to my own. I can't say I especially agreewith the OPs opinion.
With regards to losing shiops, I concur with another players statement, never fly your best ship. Only the disposable ones.
Petrovsk, here's my honest asessment (can you tell I have too much time on my hands today?? lol):
Eve is realistic in that all combat is heavily dependent on logistics and economics. One of the most important things to remember in the game is "don't fly what you can't afford to lose." Skills, clones, modules, insurance, and ships all cost money to keep up to date so you MUST make cash somehow to be able to fight. There are people that apparently do this through PvP, pirating and taking people's stuff.. but I'm definitely the wrong person to ask about that. There is PvE combat that will allow you to make money in the form of missions (quests) and ratting (killing NPC pirates for loot and bounties).
If you truly are gifted in the area of tactics and leadership, I can tell you that talented FCs (fleet commanders) are quite possibly the most revered people in the game since they generally make or break any type of fleet combat. Trouble is you need an intimate understanding of the capabilities of all of the ships under your command to do this effectively. I suppose you could have this without having personally flown many classes of ships but most people would be pretty skeptical looking at a young character wanteing to FC.
Your question makes me think most specifically of a course that used to be taught by a corp called Agony Unleashed. You had to pay to take it and there were some (pretty basic) skill requirements, but they would basically show you how to turn a small fleet of T1 frigates into an effective PvP killing machine.. basically by disabling or bypassing the defenses of much larger and more advanced ships by using proper tactics. I never took the class, but everyone I know that did said it was awesome. I don't even know if it is still around.
My point is this: if you really wanted to, and were willing to take the time to learn, and if you could find people willing to follow you, you could have your own little wolfpack of marauding T1 frigate hellians in short order in the game. But your tactics and fitting would have to be impeccable.. any sloppiness or mistakes would likely result in you getting your arse handed to you an a platter. And keep in mind this type of play would place you solidly in the "player pirate" category, which means carbears/ antipirates (like I was) would try to kill you whenever they could.
Once again, the trial is free. No commitment to fear there.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
Thanks again for some good feedback. Yes I didn't mean to give the impression I would leap in expecting to be an FC, nor would I want to until I am personally comfortable with what every ship does (and hopefully every player's capability if I can grow in a good corporation), but I would enjoy learning to do so by being a grunt. My "plan," from what I've read about EVE so far, would be to use nothing but cheap ships in a suicidal fashion. What would bore me to death is having to mine for hours between a short skirmish just to support this habit, which would make me quit. I don't mind some peaceful gathering every now and then. Pirating does sound interesting though. . . I won't be Petrovsk in game, don't look for me!
I suppose I'll try to learn the game some more, I have a week left on the trial. Sold! You elitist jerks!
Speaking of elitist, I will say there is some merit to the attitude after browsing the EVE forums. I saw a thread without one garbled block of angry text (tm)!