Hey Guys, I am a liitle out of the loop here, but are the 10 million subs spuked by WOW actual ongoing subs or are they a count of the number of accounts created, I ask this as my first exposure to WOW was through a AUD$2 CD that gave me 14 days of play, lets just say I bought atleast 3 or 4 of these and setup different accounts.
It's not actually active subscriptions, but active accounts. This is due to the Asian market having a different billing method where they don't pay per account but rather by playtime.
Edit: Someone talked about subscriber numbers for EverQuest earlier, just wanted to point out that it topped out just above 1 million subs, not 2 million as was stated.
It's not about killing WoW. It's about market share. Anyone who's sat in on a project planning meeting understands the concept of realistic goals. One goal is steady growth. One is (of course and hopefully) a quality product. One is taking away market share from your competitor.
Has anyone seen re-runs of Wild Kingdom? A pack of wolves gangs up on a moose and brings it down....in time. Usually they try to cut out older moose (i.e. WoW for this analogy) Some wolves get stepped on or gored, but over time they keep nipping away and eventually the moose falls prey to hungry pack. This is a bit like what will happen to WoW (except that it's unlikely to die completely for a long, long time). Each year WoW will get older and a bit more 'frail' by modern standards. Each free-to-play MMO that pulls a few players away is taking a a nip from the 'moose'. The leaders of the pack, the bigger names like AoC, WAR, AION etc are taking 'bites' and eventually after a long, long run the WoW moos will give in. (though in the case giving in means dropping from the front seat, not dying).
I don't understand why everyone wants WoW dead. WoW performs an invaluable service to the gaming community like fly paper or perhaps a huge spiders web would be a better analogy. Think about it, if it were not for WoW then all those millions of pests would be playing the same game as you /shudder
I don't understand why everyone wants WoW dead. WoW performs an invaluable service to the gaming community like fly paper or perhaps a huge spiders web would be a better analogy. Think about it, if it were not for WoW then all those millions of pests would be playing the same game as you /shudder
No, they wouldn't. They would still be playing CS, and we'd actually have some decent MMOs instead of the crap that will be released to please the CS crowd.
I really hoped people realized by now that to reproduce wow's success in any other mmo, it would have to be the same in core and that is what you guys say is bad and dont wanna see in the new mmo's, like some people say its like CS alot of people picked it up because it doesnt require a PhD in Astrophysics.
-Very Low system requirements
-Very simplistic gameplay (we all know wow is very simplistic one or 2 button mashing)
-A massive array of relatively easy to get achievements and rewards that will make you noted by the community AKA increase you e-pen.
-A company willing to spend alot of millions developing it
-NOT mature rated
Note i didnt mention wow killer because well thats just a retarded statement, WoW didnt kill any other game to get its player base, it did on the other hand attract a new array of players to the mmo gaming scene because of all its core concepts stated above, if the next gen mmo is gonna ignore them, then it wont cather for the demands of these new players.
I really hoped people realized by now that to reproduce wow's success in any other mmo, it would have to be the same in core and that is what you guys say is bad and dont wanna see in the new mmo's, like some people say its like CS alot of people picked it up because it doesnt require a PhD in Astrophysics. -Very Low system requirements -Very simplistic gameplay (we all know wow is very simplistic one or 2 button mashing) -A massive array of relatively easy to get achievements and rewards that will make you noted by the community AKA increase you e-pen. -A company willing to spend alot of millions developing it -NOT mature rated These days and after WoW was released and to catch the attention of the "new born" mmo players an mmo has to cather for these things if it doesnt it wont get the attention of the millions of people that play it. Note i didnt mention wow killer because well thats just a retarded statement, WoW didnt kill any other game to get its player base, it did on the other hand attract a new array of players to the mmo gaming scene because of all its core concepts stated above, if the next gen mmo is gonna ignore them then it wont cather for the demands of these new players.
never read so much crap in ym life, you think because wow is a very well produced game its simplistic? Its called good bloody design thats why you think its simple you idiot.
I really hoped people realized by now that to reproduce wow's success in any other mmo, it would have to be the same in core and that is what you guys say is bad and dont wanna see in the new mmo's, like some people say its like CS alot of people picked it up because it doesnt require a PhD in Astrophysics.
-Very Low system requirements
-Very simplistic gameplay (we all know wow is very simplistic one or 2 button mashing)
-A massive array of relatively easy to get achievements and rewards that will make you noted by the community AKA increase you e-pen.
-A company willing to spend alot of millions developing it
-NOT mature rated
These days and after WoW was released and to catch the attention of the "new born" mmo players an mmo has to cather for these things if it doesnt it wont get the attention of the millions of people that play it.
Note i didnt mention wow killer because well thats just a retarded statement, WoW didnt kill any other game to get its player base, it did on the other hand attract a new array of players to the mmo gaming scene because of all its core concepts stated above, if the next gen mmo is gonna ignore them then it wont cather for the demands of these new players.
never read so much crap in ym life, you think because wow is a very well produced game its simplistic? Its called good bloody design thats why you think its simple you idiot.
Well im sorry if you had to resort to insults to prove your point, well yes it is awesome design i didnt state otherwise, but not realizing its a very simplistic game is just a bit naive and shows your lack of knowledge in general MMO design.
On the other hand i understand why you insulted me you are a so called "fanboi" and you assumed i was attacking your precious game, well i wasnt i actually enjoy playing WoW alot. My advice to you is learn some manners and think twice before clicking post message.
You do all realise that the cafes that allow people to play wow in asia when they feel like it are actualy paid for subs dont you? these cafes pay a subscription for thier accounts too.
Also why do people think its an insult to call a game simplistic? think celotape people..one of the most simplistic designs ever but also one of the most useful. Dont get me wrong i dont like wow..but not because of anything other than preference. i played it for 12 months and came to understand that it is a very solid game. yes simple. yes simplistic graphics, but also graphics that are very well designed. Wow is not a bad game at all, its a very good game and a solid performer. dont get so upset when people say it's simplistic. It's an actual compliment whether meant or not.
People that see simplistic as bad are just a little short sighted. like the old football/rugby argument. rugby is more technical than football. yes it's true. but as a sport the simple rules of football attract much more people than rugby. Simple = better. best designs are simple and cheap.
still prefer the more depth to EQ though but thats just personal prefference nothing to do with technical feats .
You do all realise that the cafes that allow people to play wow in asia when they feel like it are actualy paid for subs dont you? these cafes pay a subscription for thier accounts too. Also why do people think its an insult to call a game simplistic? think celotape people..one of the most simplistic designs ever but also one of the most useful. Dont get me wrong i dont like wow..but not because of anything other than preference. i played it for 12 months and came to understand that it is a very solid game. yes simple. yes simplistic graphics, but also graphics that are very well designed. Wow is not a bad game at all, its a very good game and a solid performer. dont get so upset when people say it's simplistic. It's an actual compliment whether meant or not. People that see simplistic as bad are just a little short sighted. like the old football/rugby argument. rugby is more technical than football. yes it's true. but as a sport the simple rules of football attract much more people than rugby. Simple = better. best designs are simple and cheap. still prefer the more depth to EQ though but thats just personal prefference nothing to do with technical feats .
Exactly, simple means well designed, you dont have to start over complicating things to make things good. That is what alot of people dotn realise. Wow is a very well designed game thats why idiots think its simple.
You do all realise that the cafes that allow people to play wow in asia when they feel like it are actualy paid for subs dont you? these cafes pay a subscription for thier accounts too. Also why do people think its an insult to call a game simplistic? think celotape people..one of the most simplistic designs ever but also one of the most useful. Dont get me wrong i dont like wow..but not because of anything other than preference. i played it for 12 months and came to understand that it is a very solid game. yes simple. yes simplistic graphics, but also graphics that are very well designed. Wow is not a bad game at all, its a very good game and a solid performer. dont get so upset when people say it's simplistic. It's an actual compliment whether meant or not. People that see simplistic as bad are just a little short sighted. like the old football/rugby argument. rugby is more technical than football. yes it's true. but as a sport the simple rules of football attract much more people than rugby. Simple = better. best designs are simple and cheap. still prefer the more depth to EQ though but thats just personal prefference nothing to do with technical feats .
Exactly, simple means well designed, you dont have to start over complicating things to make things good. That is what alot of people dotn realise. Wow is a very well designed game thats why idiots think its simple.
In all honesty did you actually read what you wrote down? If you cant make an educated reply dont bother.
"simple means well designed"
"Wow is a very well designed game thats why idiots think its simple. "
Hey Guys, I am a liitle out of the loop here, but are the 10 million subs spuked by WOW actual ongoing subs or are they a count of the number of accounts created, I ask this as my first exposure to WOW was through a AUD$2 CD that gave me 14 days of play, lets just say I bought atleast 3 or 4 of these and setup different accounts.
It's not actually active subscriptions, but active accounts. This is due to the Asian market having a different billing method where they don't pay per account but rather by playtime.
Edit: Someone talked about subscriber numbers for EverQuest earlier, just wanted to point out that it topped out just above 1 million subs, not 2 million as was stated.
NOT TRUE !!!!!
The 10.7 millions are ACTIVE paying subscriptions. NOT accounts (because that would be into the tens of millions).
Blizzard gives a very detailed definition in what they consider active subscribers BTW on their press releases.
The subscription numbers contain paid conscription accounts, the active paid subscription cards, the first month free gameplay after you acquire the original product and the number of players in the last month who paid by the hour (China).
So NOT included in these figures are the free trial accounts and accounts which no longer have a subscription.
Indeed Blizzard made MORE than a billion dollars in 2007, so stop believing those figures are false or do you think perhaps Blizzard has some illegal Columbian drug business to make that money on a yearly basis
Umm, first you say not true, only to prove that what I said was true? Reread what you yourself posted, "and the number of players in the last month who paid by the hour". As you can see, they don't pay for an account but for gametime, which allows them to more or less have one account per character if they so wish.
I'm being serious. This game may truly be the WoW killer. Not now, but in a course of a few years. Think about it
600,000 early access slots - ALL SOLD OUT All 200,000 or so CE - SOLD OUT 1 million have applied for beta Better graphics, better combat - AoC leads the way for next-gen MMOs; WoW users may become tired of raiding/graphics during the next few years and switch WoW loses servers - AoC gains more servers This generation seems to be a lot about graphics and word of mouth advertising - perfect, AoC has excellent graphics
AoC is just exploding in sales. To what I've read, pre-orders are up to 800,000. Almost 1 million subs in the first day of release. Now imagine how the game will expand? Call me a sceptic, but I truly believe this game is The One.
WoW wasn't "The One" at the time of its release. It had to build a playerbase, and was one of the best-timed releases in gaming history.
AoC has potential, but what it offers now and in the next six months to separate itself from "the pack" will determine its future - not its day one numbers.
Another thought wandered past ... AoC won't kill WoW for a simple reason. Many gamers are now very wary of the marketing - they will look, they will play for free, they will even pre-order ... but they also remember things like Vangaurd, the SWG CU & NGE, DDO and other games that promised much then did nto live up to expectation.
I want a new fantasy MMORPG to play. *but* I'm not interested in wasting my time and money paying for a game that isn't up to scratch: from what I hear AoC has great potential, but has yet to achieve that. Which is of course exactly what could have been said of Vanguard too ...
That and I really hate EQ2 style world instancing, which I understand is the style underlying AoC. WoW got the mix of instances / shared world right, which is a subtle but important key to how the community in such games work. DDO at launch got the instancing horribly wrong (not to mention the other things...), and the community was destroyed before the game really even started. Sounds like AoC have gone for server efficiency over community, which is risky... time will tell.
WoW killer - to me means that i will play more AoC than WoW on a personal level.
At the moment i play WoW more than any other MMO, if AoC makes me play it more than i play WoW over the next couple of years it will have succeded in killing WoW for me, that all that counts for me!
There is no need to compare individual parts of each game to each other, the proof is in the playing, its the whole WoW package that makes me play it, if the whole AoC keeps me hooked for the next few years then WoW will effectively be dead for me.
AoC has a large anticipation factor as there are loads of gamers, like me, who want something different but still as good as WoW, whether AoC can do this is yet to be seen, i hope it does.
Na, AoC will do nothing to WoW, BUT I can tell you what can be a WoW killer $200 for a barrel of oil by end of summer forclosures up 300% food prices up 100% .........* shakes head * ....that is a Wow killer for me!
Tell me about it...
When I went to feed 4 with Spaghetti yesterday...we were talking 40+ bucks US...
Uh...I could usually feed 4 with Spaghetti ...for $20
And dont ask me to drive anywhere....so all that gas money will go to pay for AoC
AoC will have around 500k subs, 2 months after release.
Then once WAR releases, they will drop to 200k. And WAR will rise to 1 million players in the EU - US.
I will play AoC, just to kill time till the game with real PvP ( RvR )comes out.
( Oh and I will go buy me a second 8800GTS 512MB to setup my SLI, so I can actually run this resource hog of a game )
But neither WAR nor AoC will kill WoW, which is a good thing, cause I don't need all them WoW noobs in my game
greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Comments
It's not actually active subscriptions, but active accounts. This is due to the Asian market having a different billing method where they don't pay per account but rather by playtime.
Edit: Someone talked about subscriber numbers for EverQuest earlier, just wanted to point out that it topped out just above 1 million subs, not 2 million as was stated.
It's not about killing WoW. It's about market share. Anyone who's sat in on a project planning meeting understands the concept of realistic goals. One goal is steady growth. One is (of course and hopefully) a quality product. One is taking away market share from your competitor.
Has anyone seen re-runs of Wild Kingdom? A pack of wolves gangs up on a moose and brings it down....in time. Usually they try to cut out older moose (i.e. WoW for this analogy) Some wolves get stepped on or gored, but over time they keep nipping away and eventually the moose falls prey to hungry pack. This is a bit like what will happen to WoW (except that it's unlikely to die completely for a long, long time). Each year WoW will get older and a bit more 'frail' by modern standards. Each free-to-play MMO that pulls a few players away is taking a a nip from the 'moose'. The leaders of the pack, the bigger names like AoC, WAR, AION etc are taking 'bites' and eventually after a long, long run the WoW moos will give in. (though in the case giving in means dropping from the front seat, not dying).
.
You Are Going Get The People In The Basement MAD
debate the asian WOW subs as you like
www.blizzard.co.uk/press/080122.shtml
World of Warcraft now hosts
more than 2 million subscribers in Europe,
more than 2.5 million in North America,
and approximately 5.5 million in Asia.
this does not include 14 day trials and temporary accounts (as its spelled out in the link)
Burning Crusade expansion, in the 1st month, sold 3.5 million
www.blizzard.co.uk/press/070306.shtml
EQ2 fan sites
I don't understand why everyone wants WoW dead. WoW performs an invaluable service to the gaming community like fly paper or perhaps a huge spiders web would be a better analogy. Think about it, if it were not for WoW then all those millions of pests would be playing the same game as you /shudder
No, they wouldn't. They would still be playing CS, and we'd actually have some decent MMOs instead of the crap that will be released to please the CS crowd.
I really hoped people realized by now that to reproduce wow's success in any other mmo, it would have to be the same in core and that is what you guys say is bad and dont wanna see in the new mmo's, like some people say its like CS alot of people picked it up because it doesnt require a PhD in Astrophysics.
-Very Low system requirements
-Very simplistic gameplay (we all know wow is very simplistic one or 2 button mashing)
-A massive array of relatively easy to get achievements and rewards that will make you noted by the community AKA increase you e-pen.
-A company willing to spend alot of millions developing it
-NOT mature rated
Note i didnt mention wow killer because well thats just a retarded statement, WoW didnt kill any other game to get its player base, it did on the other hand attract a new array of players to the mmo gaming scene because of all its core concepts stated above, if the next gen mmo is gonna ignore them, then it wont cather for the demands of these new players.
never read so much crap in ym life, you think because wow is a very well produced game its simplistic? Its called good bloody design thats why you think its simple you idiot.
Well im sorry if you had to resort to insults to prove your point, well yes it is awesome design i didnt state otherwise, but not realizing its a very simplistic game is just a bit naive and shows your lack of knowledge in general MMO design.
On the other hand i understand why you insulted me you are a so called "fanboi" and you assumed i was attacking your precious game, well i wasnt i actually enjoy playing WoW alot. My advice to you is learn some manners and think twice before clicking post message.
You do all realise that the cafes that allow people to play wow in asia when they feel like it are actualy paid for subs dont you? these cafes pay a subscription for thier accounts too.
Also why do people think its an insult to call a game simplistic? think celotape people..one of the most simplistic designs ever but also one of the most useful. Dont get me wrong i dont like wow..but not because of anything other than preference. i played it for 12 months and came to understand that it is a very solid game. yes simple. yes simplistic graphics, but also graphics that are very well designed. Wow is not a bad game at all, its a very good game and a solid performer. dont get so upset when people say it's simplistic. It's an actual compliment whether meant or not.
People that see simplistic as bad are just a little short sighted. like the old football/rugby argument. rugby is more technical than football. yes it's true. but as a sport the simple rules of football attract much more people than rugby. Simple = better. best designs are simple and cheap.
still prefer the more depth to EQ though
but thats just personal prefference nothing to do with technical feats 
.
So much anger here..
http://www.dragontavern.com/
Exactly, simple means well designed, you dont have to start over complicating things to make things good. That is what alot of people dotn realise. Wow is a very well designed game thats why idiots think its simple.
Exactly, simple means well designed, you dont have to start over complicating things to make things good. That is what alot of people dotn realise. Wow is a very well designed game thats why idiots think its simple.
In all honesty did you actually read what you wrote down? If you cant make an educated reply dont bother.
"simple means well designed"
"Wow is a very well designed game thats why idiots think its simple. "
It's not actually active subscriptions, but active accounts. This is due to the Asian market having a different billing method where they don't pay per account but rather by playtime.
Edit: Someone talked about subscriber numbers for EverQuest earlier, just wanted to point out that it topped out just above 1 million subs, not 2 million as was stated.
NOT TRUE !!!!!
The 10.7 millions are ACTIVE paying subscriptions. NOT accounts (because that would be into the tens of millions).
Blizzard gives a very detailed definition in what they consider active subscribers BTW on their press releases.
The subscription numbers contain paid conscription accounts, the active paid subscription cards, the first month free gameplay after you acquire the original product and the number of players in the last month who paid by the hour (China).
So NOT included in these figures are the free trial accounts and accounts which no longer have a subscription.
Indeed Blizzard made MORE than a billion dollars in 2007, so stop believing those figures are false or do you think perhaps Blizzard has some illegal Columbian drug business to make that money on a yearly basis
Umm, first you say not true, only to prove that what I said was true? Reread what you yourself posted, "and the number of players in the last month who paid by the hour". As you can see, they don't pay for an account but for gametime, which allows them to more or less have one account per character if they so wish.
WoW wasn't "The One" at the time of its release. It had to build a playerbase, and was one of the best-timed releases in gaming history.
AoC has potential, but what it offers now and in the next six months to separate itself from "the pack" will determine its future - not its day one numbers.
OP you are smoking too much of that stuff!
Now go to bed and sleep off that stuff and come back to reality.
The only thing AoC is gonna kill is itself, at release.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Another thought wandered past ... AoC won't kill WoW for a simple reason. Many gamers are now very wary of the marketing - they will look, they will play for free, they will even pre-order ... but they also remember things like Vangaurd, the SWG CU & NGE, DDO and other games that promised much then did nto live up to expectation.
I want a new fantasy MMORPG to play. *but* I'm not interested in wasting my time and money paying for a game that isn't up to scratch: from what I hear AoC has great potential, but has yet to achieve that. Which is of course exactly what could have been said of Vanguard too ...
That and I really hate EQ2 style world instancing, which I understand is the style underlying AoC. WoW got the mix of instances / shared world right, which is a subtle but important key to how the community in such games work. DDO at launch got the instancing horribly wrong (not to mention the other things...), and the community was destroyed before the game really even started. Sounds like AoC have gone for server efficiency over community, which is risky... time will tell.
WoW killer - to me means that i will play more AoC than WoW on a personal level.
At the moment i play WoW more than any other MMO, if AoC makes me play it more than i play WoW over the next couple of years it will have succeded in killing WoW for me, that all that counts for me!
There is no need to compare individual parts of each game to each other, the proof is in the playing, its the whole WoW package that makes me play it, if the whole AoC keeps me hooked for the next few years then WoW will effectively be dead for me.
AoC has a large anticipation factor as there are loads of gamers, like me, who want something different but still as good as WoW, whether AoC can do this is yet to be seen, i hope it does.
Well it killed WoW for me all right. My account is sold.
3 things people need to realize:
1) Most of you have horrible grammar
2) Your delusional if you think WoW will get toppled by AoC
3) pie > all
Na, AoC will do nothing to WoW, BUT I can tell you what can be a WoW killer
$200 for a barrel of oil by end of summer
forclosures up 300%
food prices up 100%
.........* shakes head * ....that is a Wow killer for me!
When I went to feed 4 with Spaghetti yesterday...we were talking 40+ bucks US...
Uh...I could usually feed 4 with Spaghetti ...for $20
And dont ask me to drive anywhere....so all that gas money will go to pay for AoC
LOL
More like a fifth actually
My prediction?
AoC will have around 500k subs, 2 months after release.
Then once WAR releases, they will drop to 200k. And WAR will rise to 1 million players in the EU - US.
I will play AoC, just to kill time till the game with real PvP ( RvR )comes out.
( Oh and I will go buy me a second 8800GTS 512MB to setup my SLI, so I can actually run this resource hog of a game )
But neither WAR nor AoC will kill WoW, which is a good thing, cause I don't need all them WoW noobs in my game
greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
The next big massive multiplayer game will not be on the RPG area.
It will be a sport massive multiplayer game. What is the most popular sport worldwide? Soccer ( football in Europe).
There you go, when a big company release a well thought Massive Multiplayer game on this area , it will blow those 10 millions by far.
And I don't think that the next Online Football Manager will do it because it will need a big and experienced company on both sport and MMO fields.
Maybe on the next years there will be a co-production between companies like Blizzard and Sigames.
When/if that happens, we will be talking about hundreds of millions in active subscriptions.