Dumb criminals with limited aggro range or poor eye-site all over the place.
XP was the only reason to run instances... that and to finish up a questline that leads you to another area (that will end in the exact same instance, more or less = cookie cutter dungeons).
The lore didn't pull me in and make me feel like part of the gaming world.
The Villains should've been able to raid and vice versa.
Most of the world was just art. I wanted to be able to fly up the side of a building and see people inside... or bust through a window and go inside. If I wanted to be a villain that way, so be it.
Character creation is great in the game. I don't think anyone disagree's there. But overall, I got tired of the game pretty quickly. I tried it 4 different times and each time, I just lost interest fairly early on into my effort to get hooked by this game. It just never happened for me.
As a former player (who has re-subbed 2x for short periods of time before quitting again, so I was TRYING to like the game) there are 5 major reasons I think the game didn't do better: 1) WoW came along not long after and stole much of the current and potential playerbase. WoW just does everything better except player customization. WoW graphic performance is also pretty good with very modest hardware. wow-new raid content added pretty much every patch, much to the thrill of the less than 1% of the playerbase that raids. 2) Game is FAR too repetitive, and there is just too much grinding. Other games are full of grinding too, but CoX went way, way too far. better than kill 50 orcs, followed by kill 50 ogres, followed by kill 50 XYZ type of pig. 3) Not solo-friendly enough even with difficulty sliders, particularly for the little actual variety there is (fighting AV's and monsters). This is a compounded problem with relatively low population numbers (hard to find groups), and the solo "I am the hero" mentality this game probably attracts. there are different events (hellion fires, supa-troll raves), different holiday events (valentine/halloween/christmas events/missions), every issue there are more map types introduced. new zones get added, old zones get remade. this game is incredibly solo friendly. there are some AT combinations that can solo elite bosses and AV/Hero types. if you've picked one that can't; then, that's why the difficulty slider exists. 4) Way, way , WAY too many status effects like stuns, etc. Really freaking annoying, especially since some builds rely so heavily on toggles. You feel like you're fighting the RNG, not bad guys/good guys. wow, i'm sorry, on this one -- lame. zomg, they stunned me because i have absolutely no stun protection for some reason... 5) No real loot. Let's face it, players behave much like Pavlovian dogs, and the random dropping of desireable loot keeps them salivating for more (and heavily addicted). CoX largely removed one of those addicting elements. They have tried to add it back with the invention system, but once a game gets a bit old, it has no buzz and the opportunity to get large number s of people tryjing it out is long gone. so, we go from weirdness in 4, to this in 5? odd, for no loot, there seem to be a lot of sets you can collect and lots of items you can craft (base items, temp powers, temp powers from base items). where fact and/or opinion ends and silliness begins is where you can expect to get flamed. you hit that around 4.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
As a former player (who has re-subbed 2x for short periods of time before quitting again, so I was TRYING to like the game) there are 5 major reasons I think the game didn't do better: 1) WoW came along not long after and stole much of the current and potential playerbase. WoW just does everything better except player customization. WoW graphic performance is also pretty good with very modest hardware. wow-new raid content added pretty much every patch, much to the thrill of the less than 1% of the playerbase that raids. 2) Game is FAR too repetitive, and there is just too much grinding. Other games are full of grinding too, but CoX went way, way too far. better than kill 50 orcs, followed by kill 50 ogres, followed by kill 50 XYZ type of pig.
I'm no WoW fan, especially of the godawful raids, but what I remember is them releasing WoW not long after CoH's first major nerf patch. Not great timing for CoH, especially with WoW being such a quality product.
Ignoring WoW's end-game raid-grind (which I found monumentally repetitive) CoH really is more repetitive. It is largely a surface (visual) thing but it's an important factor. In WoW and other mmos there are vastly different landscapes, mobs etc. In CoH the whole game experience looks much the same from beginning to end.
I did not like the way they conviently split the population with the introduction of CoV as a "new" game.. Which basically all but killed the population in CoH and all of a sudden everyone was a villian JUST to try out the "new" game (which wasn't really new at all..)
I hated the fact that they gave the villains certain things with no hero equivalent for so long like those matron powers and new power sets even costume sets..
I thought the PvP zones were fun and at least had a point to them and I also liked the super group head quarters thing, but once CoV came out, basically my whole SG left for villain side and PvP maps became villain zerg fests that just seen heroes getting masterminded and assasinated over and over again by many many many of them..
Basically, they should have finished CoV before CoH and intergrated it into one game giving folks a choice between the two (as warhammer will do), but they basically destroyed one half of the game while promoting the other half.. Was a very fun game though.. The physics were very cool.. Ice blasting people into walls and stuff..
i think Cryptics Studios never intended to make a Villains game when CoH was released... it was after some time tat they decided having a Villains themed game will bring more players in.
I only played it for 2 weeks but what turned me away was not the genre. I felt like everything looked the same, the gameplay felt very, very repetitive. I was really let down by the overall feel.
A lot of people really enjoy it, I wanted to get into it but it just didn't resonate with me. I'm not against the genre but the whole layout and approach felt whacked.
The character customization was cool, tho.
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i think Cryptics Studios never intended to make a Villains game when CoH was released... it was after some time tat they decided having a Villains themed game will bring more players in.
True - and in fact they never intended to have any kind of pvp in the game.
This was another major problem back in the early days. The original game was a hell of a lot more fun to play than the one we have today.
But they introduced arena pvp and all of a sudden the CoH forums were flooded with "that build is too powerful - nerf, nerf, nerf!!!" And it's never stopped.
And the nerfs, along with the rise of WoW, drove away a sizeable chunk of the playerbase.
CoH was a well designed whole that has suffered a lot of compromises:
pvp
the introduction of an opposing faction
loot
crafting
It was designed as one thing, and then twisted repeatedly to accommodate these extras.
For me, CoX only gets exciting from lvl 10 onwards where theres a death penalty. In lvl 20-ish to 30-ish the missions are mush more fun to play honestly
Needs more missions and alot more variety of maps for those missions. PVP sucks, it was just tacked on and can never be really balanced. Nothing you do affects the game world. The games version of guilds kind of suck too. Not enough things for the super groupss to do as a super group. City of Villains was another tacked on feature, you realy need villains to be in same world as the heroes. Development is split between the 2 games.
All that being said, this is still a great game. It has more teaming than any other 3 mmo's combined, the character creation is unmatched. Unlike most mmo's you dont have to wait to end lvl to have fun. If it wasnt successful, champions online and dc universe might not be in the works.
Good topic. I played city of heroes for about 3 years (and villains when it came out).
My experience was that it was very repetative. After I tried every combo and AT it got very boring. I could seriously, eat, do laundry, and play guitar while playing city of heroes and not even skip a beat. Point, Click...Point, Click..
Please don't get sidetracked on this next comment. But I'm currently playing AoC, and the combat alone keeps me on my toes, I can't walk away while a power is activating. I'm not comparing the games at all, I'm just saying it needs something more. Its a great game, and I loved it at first. But I suppose anything gets boring after 3 years.
I would definitely recommend it for first time MMO's. its very simple to understand, as opposed to WoW and the like. No need to worry about numbers, and armor, etc.. That was one of my favorite parts. You could get into the math game with it, but you didn't need to at all. I played a ice/storm controller mostly, was by far my fav, but after I hit 50, there was nothing really to do. PvP zones were dead, and if they weren't dead, it was completely uneven. There were always 10 heroes, and 2 villains or vice versa. I know a lot of people were against it, but I was always for narrowing down the pvp servers.
I digress. Its a great game, but as others mentioned it needs way more marketing, and something, I dont know what exactly, but something to set it apart.
Classes too generic: When you play a class in COX, you are playing a stock class. Healers are stock healers, tanks are stock tanks, etc. When WOW launched months later, it featured talent trees that allow much more freedom in how you spec. While COX has some crossover stuff with the added power pools, it is not robust enough to provide any true hybrid class options.
Experience is too slow: Even after smoothing, even after double exp weekend, I find myself grinding the same mobs in the same places for far too long. This is why the game gets repetitive.
Lack of PVP: The genre has changed, and no game can succeed these days without solid PVP to back you up. Hero vs. Villain conflict could have made for the best PVP in the genre. It should have been epic. Instead, it was an afterthought.
Undistinctive gear: The only way to change your appearance is through tailoring sessions @ 20 and special effects at 30. Instead, enhancements should slightly alter the appearance or animation of the power they are linked to. Yes, the initial character customization is awesome, but if you can't upgrade your appearance, it grows stale and you find yourself back at the character generation screen again.
Same old tile sets: They add a new tile set from time to time, but it's still not enough to make up for the fact that COX has about 1/10th of the tile sets of other MMOs.
So yeah, COX makes a great first impression, but from levels 2-5, 7-13, 15-19, 21-29, and 31-50 there is nothing new to see. The game has 5 levels worth of interesting developments crammed into 50 levels that take forever to obtain.
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Classes too generic: When you play a class in COX, you are playing a stock class. Healers are stock healers, tanks are stock tanks, etc. When WOW launched months later, it featured talent trees that allow much more freedom in how you spec. While COX has some crossover stuff with the added power pools, it is not robust enough to provide any true hybrid class options. Experience is too slow: Even after smoothing, even after double exp weekend, I find myself grinding the same mobs in the same places for far too long. This is why the game gets repetitive. Lack of PVP: The genre has changed, and no game can succeed these days without solid PVP to back you up. Hero vs. Villain conflict could have made for the best PVP in the genre. It should have been epic. Instead, it was an afterthought. Undistinctive gear: The only way to change your appearance is through tailoring sessions @ 20 and special effects at 30. Instead, enhancements should slightly alter the appearance or animation of the power they are linked to. Yes, the initial character customization is awesome, but if you can't upgrade your appearance, it grows stale and you find yourself back at the character generation screen again. Same old tile sets: They add a new tile set from time to time, but it's still not enough to make up for the fact that COX has about 1/10th of the tile sets of other MMOs.
So yeah, COX makes a great first impression, but from levels 2-5, 7-13, 15-19, 21-29, and 31-50 there is nothing new to see. The game has 5 levels worth of interesting developments crammed into 50 levels that take forever to obtain.
I wholeheartedly disagree with every point you have except the last one.
These classes are nowhere near as generic as the classes in, lets say WoW (since you brought up that game as an example). WoW's talent trees are truthfully pathetic compared to the differences with powerset choices of the same class in CoX. Defenders may be support-based AT, but they have sooo many variances in support-base powersets (do they heal with Empathy, or use max defense with Forcefield, or various others... which damage blast type did they take... etc...). With WoW, a Priest is either going to be Holy or Shadow spec (so, either pure healing or nuke/heal). Yeah, that's a whole lot of choice there compared to CoX. /sarcasm off
Experience game seems slow in this game, because the game is, truthfully, grindy at times. However, this game is more about the journey rather than end-game (unlike WoW). And, in WoW, I find it pathetic that the devs keep increasing leveling speed to accommodate the ADHD children that flock to that game just for endgame raiding antics. A game should be played for the journey rather than the end.... but the WoW devs fail at grasping that one.
Disagree the most with your PvP analysis. A game does not need PvP to be great, as not everyone plays an MMORPG to go slaughter other players. If the PvE is good enough and varied enough to get others to have fun with friends and guildmates, then PvP can be an afterthought. This will be especially true when CoX devs finally release the customizable mission system for the players, as it'll give the players the ability to make varied missions. *cough* Of course that's assuming they do it right.
This is NOT a gear game. If you came into this game with the thought that this was a gear game, then it's your own fault for not doing any research in this game. This is refreshing as it allows a lot more time not to focus on "Ubah" gear for characters. Also, if this game had a gear-based focus, then characters would loose one of the greatest things this game has to offer.... uniqueness of looks (due to everyone wearing the same gear). Again, I repeat, this is NOT a gear game (thankfully).
Yes, the tilesets can be monotonous at times. However, if I'm in a group, the last thing I'll be thinking about is "warehouse again?" as the action is flying by so fast that I have time to notice usually. But, truthfully, lack of tileset diversity is probably one of the few drawbacks this game has.
Originally posted by Vato26 These classes are nowhere near as generic as the classes in, lets say WoW (since you brought up that game as an example). WoW's talent trees are truthfully pathetic compared to the differences with powerset choices of the same class in CoX. Defenders may be support-based AT, but they have sooo many variances in support-base powersets (do they heal with Empathy, or use max defense with Forcefield, or various others... which damage blast type did they take... etc...). With WoW, a Priest is either going to be Holy or Shadow spec (so, either pure healing or nuke/heal). Yeah, that's a whole lot of choice there compared to CoX. /sarcasm off
I disagree right back. You make it sound as if you can change COX power sets on the fly. Say if I am a Strength Brawler and want to switch to Fire Melee, how do I change that? What? I have to reroll a new character? It's anything buy versatile. With WOW, there is a cost to respec, but you can always wipe talents and respec if you can swing the gold. You can respec with COX, but when you respec you cannot change power sets within your class. It's pretty static and lame if you ask me.
Experience is slow in this game because the game is, truthfully, grindy.
So, you agree with my complaint, and yet you decide to argue anyway based on some bizarre assumption that ADHD was my reason for bringing it up? OK, whatever.
However, this game is more about the journey rather than end-game (unlike WoW). And, in WoW, I find it pathetic that the devs keep increasing leveling speed to accommodate the ADHD children that flock to that game just for endgame raiding antics. A game should be played for the journey rather than the end.... but the WoW devs fail at grasping that one.
ADHD children are not the ones paying for the WOW accounts. Adults with 2-3 jobs are, and we need faster leveling because we frankly don't have time to sit there for 15, 30, or 100 hours looking at the same exact mobs and terrain, and clicking the exact same buttons over and over like the COX players do.
Disagree the most with your PvP analysis. A game does not need PvP to be great
A game does not need PVP to be great, but an MMO does need PVP to be successful, and to get me to subscribe. PVP is the one form of gameplay that will always have a dynamic element to it.
This is NOT a gear game. If you came into this game with the thought that this was a gear game, then it's your own fault for not doing any research in this game. This is refreshing as it allows a lot more time not to focus on "Ubah" gear for characters. Also, if this game had a gear-based focus, then characters would loose one of the greatest things this game has to offer.... uniqueness of looks (due to everyone wearing the same gear). Again, I repeat, this is NOT a gear game (thankfully).
It's not a gear game? Try going 1-50 without any inspirations or enhancements then. You can't, because the game pretty much requires you to gear up. COX might possibly be the most gear dependent game in MMO history. It's is a gear game that's very poorly disguised as a non-gear game. I can't believe you fell for it.
Yes, the tilesets can be monotonous at times.
Yup.
However, if I'm in a group, the last thing I'll be thinking about is "warehouse again?" as the action is flying by so fast that I have time to notice usually. But, truthfully, lack of tileset diversity is probably one of the few drawbacks this game has.
The first thing you will be thinking about is the "fast paced" action, while the first thing I will be thinking about is the lack thereof. Gears of War is a game of fast paced action. COX is just a run of the mill grind MMO that would have been F2P years ago if not for its character generator.
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Originally posted by Souldrainer Originally posted by Vato26
These classes are nowhere near as generic as the classes in, lets say WoW (since you brought up that game as an example). WoW's talent trees are truthfully pathetic compared to the differences with powerset choices of the same class in CoX. Defenders may be support-based AT, but they have sooo many variances in support-base powersets (do they heal with Empathy, or use max defense with Forcefield, or various others... which damage blast type did they take... etc...). With WoW, a Priest is either going to be Holy or Shadow spec (so, either pure healing or nuke/heal). Yeah, that's a whole lot of choice there compared to CoX. /sarcasm off
I disagree right back. You make it sound as if you can change COX power sets on the fly. Say if I am a Strength Brawler and want to switch to Fire Melee, how do I change that? What? I have to reroll a new character? It's anything buy versatile. With WOW, there is a cost to respec, but you can always wipe talents and respec if you can swing the gold. You can respec with COX, but when you respec you cannot change power sets within your class. It's pretty static and lame if you ask me.
So... maybe people should take some time in looking up what a powerset does before they choose it. I mean, with the addition of issue 12 (or somewhere around there) they added the ability to look at the stats of the powers in all powersets. Not to mention guides and players on the official forums. Thus, there's no excuse in players not doing their homework in picking powersets.
Anyways, your original argument was that the classes in CoX couldn't be hybrids, unlike WoW. My counter to that is, quite a few AT's in CoX play multiple roles in a group at once (Controllers = CC & Support, Defenders = Support, dmg, and even some CC, Corrupters = dmg, support, and some CC, Masterminds = support & some CC... Heck, all AT's have some form of CC usually). Of course, my examples are dictated by what primary and secondary power pools are chosen, as not all do the same thing. Therefore, it sounds like there's hybrids in CoX as well.
Experience is slow in this game because the game is, truthfully, grindy.
So, you agree with my complaint, and yet you decide to argue anyway based on some bizarre assumption that ADHD was my reason for bringing it up? OK, whatever. It pays to include the person's WHOLE argument rather than trying to split it up to cause confusion. See below for answer.
However, this game is more about the journey rather than end-game (unlike WoW). And, in WoW, I find it pathetic that the devs keep increasing leveling speed to accommodate the ADHD children that flock to that game just for endgame raiding antics. A game should be played for the journey rather than the end.... but the WoW devs fail at grasping that one.
ADHD children are not the ones paying for the WOW accounts. Adults with 2-3 jobs are, and we need faster leveling because we frankly don't have time to sit there for 15, 30, or 100 hours looking at the same exact mobs and terrain, and clicking the exact same buttons over and over like the COX players do.
No crap that the ADHD children aren't paying for their own accounts. Adults do pay for the accounts. However, where's your proof about more "Adults with 2-3 jobs" are playing than ADHD children. My proof is in Alliance general chat and Barrens chat. If those are adults, then the world is seriously more F'd up than I thought. Not to mention, how in the Hell are these "Adults with 2-3 jobs" going to have time to do the 2+ hour raids that Blizz likes to use for endgame? Yeah... they don't. No "Adults with 2-3 jobs" are going to have enough time to do that. Thus, back to my ADHD children explanation.
They just want to get to the endgame as fast as possible (for a reason I have no clue about as WoW's endgame raiding system sucks IMO). And, it's proof that Blizz focuses more on the 2+ hour raiding system rather than the journey to the endgame due to them continuing to increase leveling speeds. Again... ADHD.
This is NOT a gear game. If you came into this game with the thought that this was a gear game, then it's your own fault for not doing any research in this game. This is refreshing as it allows a lot more time not to focus on "Ubah" gear for characters. Also, if this game had a gear-based focus, then characters would loose one of the greatest things this game has to offer.... uniqueness of looks (due to everyone wearing the same gear). Again, I repeat, this is NOT a gear game (thankfully).
It's not a gear game? Try going 1-50 without any inspirations or enhancements then. You can't, because the game pretty much requires you to gear up. COX might possibly be the most gear dependent game in MMO history. It's is a gear game that's very poorly disguised as a non-gear game. I can't believe you fell for it. Ok... if you put it that way, then I guess enhancements could be considered gear. However, this game is still nowhere near as gear intensive as WoW and other games as you can still function in subpar enhancements. On top of it, with the new crafted enhancements, you don't have to replace them at all if you don't want too. In your exact words, "Undistinctive gear: The only way to change your appearance is through tailoring sessions @ 20 and special effects at 30. Instead, enhancements should slightly alter the appearance or animation of the power they are linked to. Yes, the initial character customization is awesome, but if you can't upgrade your appearance, it grows stale and you find yourself back at the character generation screen again." You do realize that you can go back to the tailor to change any costume you have at any time. Thus, shockingly, you CAN change your appearance. Also, by what you are describing here, you want to focus on uncontrolled altering of a characters looks (you want enhancements to influence the appearance of powers... the best enhancement will never make the power look the best in all players eyes), when this game is focused on controlled appearance of players' characters. However, if I'm in a group, the last thing I'll be thinking about is "warehouse again?" as the action is flying by so fast that I have time to notice usually. But, truthfully, lack of tileset diversity is probably one of the few drawbacks this game has. The first thing you will be thinking about is the "fast paced" action, while the first thing I will be thinking about is the lack thereof. Gears of War is a game of fast paced action. COX is just a run of the mill grind MMO that would have been F2P years ago if not for its character generator. Gears of War = FPS, CoX = MMORPG. You are comparing Apples and Oranges there. Nice try at bashing the game on that one, but you fail. I'm sorry that you think CoX combat isn't fast paced, but it is when in groups. Apparently you were soloing the whole time you were playing... If you were that is.
It's apparent that you despise this game. It's clear that you are more focused on the "quick to endgame" focus of WoW (and games similar to that philosophy). I also highly question if you've even played the game based on some of your replies. Thus, the reliability of your opinion is... questionable.
Originally posted by Vato26 These classes are nowhere near as generic as the classes in, lets say WoW (since you brought up that game as an example). WoW's talent trees are truthfully pathetic compared to the differences with powerset choices of the same class in CoX. Defenders may be support-based AT, but they have sooo many variances in support-base powersets (do they heal with Empathy, or use max defense with Forcefield, or various others... which damage blast type did they take... etc...). With WoW, a Priest is either going to be Holy or Shadow spec (so, either pure healing or nuke/heal). Yeah, that's a whole lot of choice there compared to CoX. /sarcasm off
I disagree right back. You make it sound as if you can change COX power sets on the fly. Say if I am a Strength Brawler and want to switch to Fire Melee, how do I change that? What? I have to reroll a new character? It's anything buy versatile. With WOW, there is a cost to respec, but you can always wipe talents and respec if you can swing the gold. You can respec with COX, but when you respec you cannot change power sets within your class. It's pretty static and lame if you ask me. So... maybe people should take some time in looking up what a powerset does before they choose it. I mean, with the addition of issue 12 (or somewhere around there) they added the ability to look at the stats of the powers in all powersets. Not to mention guides and players on the official forums. Thus, there's no excuse in players not doing their homework in picking powersets. Anyways, your original argument was that the classes in CoX couldn't be hybrids, unlike WoW. My counter to that is, quite a few AT's in CoX play multiple roles in a group at once (Controllers = CC & Support, Defenders = Support, dmg, and even some CC, Corrupters = dmg, support, and some CC, Masterminds = support & some CC... Heck, all AT's have some form of CC usually). Of course, my examples are dictated by what primary and secondary power pools are chosen, as not all do the same thing. Therefore, it sounds like there's hybrids in CoX as well.
Experience is slow in this game because the game is, truthfully, grindy.
So, you agree with my complaint, and yet you decide to argue anyway based on some bizarre assumption that ADHD was my reason for bringing it up? OK, whatever. It pays to include the person's WHOLE argument rather than trying to split it up to cause confusion. See below for answer.
However, this game is more about the journey rather than end-game (unlike WoW). And, in WoW, I find it pathetic that the devs keep increasing leveling speed to accommodate the ADHD children that flock to that game just for endgame raiding antics. A game should be played for the journey rather than the end.... but the WoW devs fail at grasping that one.
ADHD children are not the ones paying for the WOW accounts. Adults with 2-3 jobs are, and we need faster leveling because we frankly don't have time to sit there for 15, 30, or 100 hours looking at the same exact mobs and terrain, and clicking the exact same buttons over and over like the COX players do. No crap that the ADHD children aren't paying for their own accounts. Adults do pay for the accounts. However, where's your proof about more "Adults with 2-3 jobs" are playing than ADHD children. My proof is in Alliance general chat and Barrens chat. If those are adults, then the world is seriously more F'd up than I thought. Not to mention, how in the Hell are these "Adults with 2-3 jobs" going to have time to do the 2+ hour raids that Blizz likes to use for endgame? Yeah... they don't. No "Adults with 2-3 jobs" are going to have enough time to do that. Thus, back to my ADHD children explanation. They just want to get to the endgame as fast as possible (for a reason I have no clue about as WoW's endgame raiding system sucks IMO). And, it's proof that Blizz focuses more on the 2+ hour raiding system rather than the journey to the endgame due to them continuing to increase leveling speeds. Again... ADHD.
This is NOT a gear game. If you came into this game with the thought that this was a gear game, then it's your own fault for not doing any research in this game. This is refreshing as it allows a lot more time not to focus on "Ubah" gear for characters. Also, if this game had a gear-based focus, then characters would loose one of the greatest things this game has to offer.... uniqueness of looks (due to everyone wearing the same gear). Again, I repeat, this is NOT a gear game (thankfully).
It's not a gear game? Try going 1-50 without any inspirations or enhancements then. You can't, because the game pretty much requires you to gear up. COX might possibly be the most gear dependent game in MMO history. It's is a gear game that's very poorly disguised as a non-gear game. I can't believe you fell for it. Ok... if you put it that way, then I guess enhancements could be considered gear. However, this game is still nowhere near as gear intensive as WoW and other games as you can still function in subpar enhancements. On top of it, with the new crafted enhancements, you don't have to replace them at all if you don't want too. In your exact words, "Undistinctive gear: The only way to change your appearance is through tailoring sessions @ 20 and special effects at 30. Instead, enhancements should slightly alter the appearance or animation of the power they are linked to. Yes, the initial character customization is awesome, but if you can't upgrade your appearance, it grows stale and you find yourself back at the character generation screen again." You do realize that you can go back to the tailor to change any costume you have at any time. Thus, shockingly, you CAN change your appearance. Also, by what you are describing here, you want to focus on uncontrolled altering of a characters looks (you want enhancements to influence the appearance of powers... the best enhancement will never make the power look the best in all players eyes), when this game is focused on controlled appearance of players' characters. However, if I'm in a group, the last thing I'll be thinking about is "warehouse again?" as the action is flying by so fast that I have time to notice usually. But, truthfully, lack of tileset diversity is probably one of the few drawbacks this game has.
The first thing you will be thinking about is the "fast paced" action, while the first thing I will be thinking about is the lack thereof. Gears of War is a game of fast paced action. COX is just a run of the mill grind MMO that would have been F2P years ago if not for its character generator. Gears of War = FPS, CoX = MMORPG. You are comparing Apples and Oranges there. Nice try at bashing the game on that one, but you fail. I'm sorry that you think CoX combat isn't fast paced, but it is when in groups. Apparently you were soloing the whole time you were playing... If you were that is.
It's apparent that you despise this game. It's clear that you are more focused on the "quick to endgame" focus of WoW (and games similar to that philosophy). I also highly question if you've even played the game based on some of your replies. Thus, the reliability of your opinion is... questionable.
(I apologize in advance for the lack of formatting of this post. The "enhanced" editior is to blame for the poor formatting and should be removed entirely IMO. If you have trouble following, simply reference the red lines in the quote with the corresponding paragraph I've posted.)
Looking at a power set before you choose it? How many hours have you been playing this genre. As a veteran of more than 20 MMOs, I can state with confidence that power sets within the genre are always subject to change, transform, and transmogrify. I guess when you talk about players doing their homework, you are also implying that they should read patch notes that aren't written yet? It's up to companies to make games that are worth playing. It's not the duty of players to enjoy a game in spite of glaring flaws. The "roles" you describe are not roles at all, they are subset functions within a role. For example, you mention controllers as CC and support, but for some reason overlook the fact that CC *is* support. There are 4 roles in COX: Healer, Tank, Melee DPS, and Ranged DPS. I see very little cross over in these roles. There is a small modicum of cross over, don't get me wrong, but the crux of the issue is that COX offers very little cross over in comparasin to other MMOs. Play other games and you will see a huge difference. As for the inclusion of whole arguments and splitting things up, if your ideas are not coherent enough from one sentence to the next, then maybe you should edit your posts better. They're your own words, after all, and they should not confuse you. Then again, you say "it pays." So, how much does it pay and who's buying? Just curious.
Where's your prood that it's ADHD? You started with an argument which I countered. If you can't prove your statement, then I don't have to either. It's not that I can't. I certainly can, but why place the burden of proof on myself when you are the one who started throwing around statistically charged terms like ADHD. Or, was the "ADHD" just supposed to be blind libel? As far as enhancements, COX has 6 pieces of gear for each power. WOW has 17 pieces per character. I am not sure on the exact math, but you do get something like 20 powers in COX before you reach max level, so something like 200 items. Which one is more gear intensive now? As far as changing costumes, that's partly my point With very few exceptions, none of the gear or things you attain in the game have a direct impact on your appearance. This is the problem I have with appearance vs. gear.
Gears of War = FPS, CoX = MMORPG. You are comparing Apples and Oranges there
Not really. Gears and COX are both video games which can be played online. If I am writing a horror story and I read the works of Shakespeare, what's wrong with that? When you are creating something worthwhile, you'd be wise to consider the importance of ALL works that have come before you. Otherwise, your horizons become narrow and your design techniques less crisp. If the genre you write has persistent content and persistent worlds, this means that even your contemporaries should be considered as possible influences. You are mistaken to think that I dislike COX. I love COX, or rather, I love the potential, the concept, and the customer approach of the game. COX shines really well in certain places. The sidekick system and character generator are top notch. I just think that COX falls short on a vast array of things that drive this genre forward, while barely managing to keep itself alive with other features. If this were the only game in the genre since 2004, it would be awesome, but it's not. COX is a great game, but it's not super big because it's a niche title which offers little for casuals and nothing for PVPers.
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The reasons why this game is not bigger are pretty simple.
1) Absolutely nothing to do with your level 50 characters. This sucks because by level 50 your character is a TON of fun.
2) No gameplay variety at all. You run warehouse mission after warehouse mission. No mini games. Base building concept is awesome but foolishly limited to super groups.
3) No feeling that you are impacting the world. This is important for a super hero game.
(I apologize in advance for the lack of formatting of this post. The "enhanced" editior is to blame for the poor formatting and should be removed entirely IMO. If you have trouble following, simply reference the red lines in the quote with the corresponding paragraph I've posted.)
Looking at a power set before you choose it? How many hours have you been playing this genre. As a veteran of more than 20 MMOs, I can state with confidence that power sets within the genre are always subject to change, transform, and transmogrify. I guess when you talk about players doing their homework, you are also implying that they should read patch notes that aren't written yet? It's up to companies to make games that are worth playing. It's not the duty of players to enjoy a game in spite of glaring flaws.
The "roles" you describe are not roles at all, they are subset functions within a role. For example, you mention controllers as CC and support, but for some reason overlook the fact that CC *is* support. There are 4 roles in COX: Healer, Tank, Melee DPS, and Ranged DPS. I see very little cross over in these roles. There is a small modicum of cross over, don't get me wrong, but the crux of the issue is that COX offers very little cross over in comparasin to other MMOs. Play other games and you will see a huge difference.
As for the inclusion of whole arguments and splitting things up, if your ideas are not coherent enough from one sentence to the next, then maybe you should edit your posts better. They're your own words, after all, and they should not confuse you. Then again, you say "it pays." So, how much does it pay and who's buying? Just curious.
Where's your prood that it's ADHD? You started with an argument which I countered. If you can't prove your statement, then I don't have to either. It's not that I can't. I certainly can, but why place the burden of proof on myself when you are the one who started throwing around statistically charged terms like ADHD. Or, was the "ADHD" just supposed to be blind libel?
As far as enhancements, COX has 6 pieces of gear for each power. WOW has 17 pieces per character. I am not sure on the exact math, but you do get something like 20 powers in COX before you reach max level, so something like 200 items. Which one is more gear intensive now?
As far as changing costumes, that's partly my point With very few exceptions, none of the gear or things you attain in the game have a direct impact on your appearance. This is the problem I have with appearance vs. gear.
Gears of War = FPS, CoX = MMORPG. You are comparing Apples and Oranges there
Not really. Gears and COX are both video games which can be played online. If I am writing a horror story and I read the works of Shakespeare, what's wrong with that? When you are creating something worthwhile, you'd be wise to consider the importance of ALL works that have come before you. Otherwise, your horizons become narrow and your design techniques less crisp. If the genre you write has persistent content and persistent worlds, this means that even your contemporaries should be considered as possible influences.
You are mistaken to think that I dislike COX. I love COX, or rather, I love the potential, the concept, and the customer approach of the game. COX shines really well in certain places. The sidekick system and character generator are top notch. I just think that COX falls short on a vast array of things that drive this genre forward, while barely managing to keep itself alive with other features. If this were the only game in the genre since 2004, it would be awesome, but it's not. COX is a great game, but it's not super big because it's a niche title which offers little for casuals and nothing for PVPers.
*Edited to reduce the size of the post by removing the redundant repost of replies and to fix a typo*
I truthfully do not care about your self-proclaimed "veterancy" of MMO's, as this is a site dedicated to MMORPG's, which are not always the same. True, all MMORPG's change overtime, but so should the player. And, frankly, I cannot think of any class-based game that allows a person to respec their entire class, which is exactly what you are arguing about. Each "class" in CoX is called an Archtype or AT. AT does not mean "class". The classes of CoX include both AT + primary/secondary (P/S from now on) powerset selections, as the P/S selections can vastly differ in playability. True, the each person within a specific AT has a specific role (just like WoW Druids, Shaman, Priests, and even Paladins fall under healing roles), but the accomplishment of said role vastly differs based on the P/S selection of the AT, which means that each P/S selection can be defined as a "class". Therefore, your respec proposal for respecing P/S selections would be constituted as respec of a class. And, I have yet to see a class-based game that has that option for respec.
Please stop using the role of "Healer" in CoX. The fantasy people that came over to CoX damaged the game with their self-proclaimed idea that Defenders (and later Corruptors) needed to heal to be successful. No, healing is a part of support, which is the Defender's main priority. However, your argument is flawed. Because, if we replace "Healer" with "Support", then we have your self-proclaimed roles within CoX being: Support, "Tank, Melee DPS, and Ranged DPS." Again, there's much crossover between classes of AT's. Let's look at these differences, shall we? Defender AT (Support/Ranged DPS = crossover), Corruptor (Ranged DPS/Support = crossover), Mastermind AT (Ranged or Melee DPS (depending on primary)/Support). Also, since you argue that CC is considered support, then: Tank AT (Melee DPS/Support (depending on P/S selection (due to CC)), Brute AT (same as Tank AT), Stalker AT (same as Tank AT). That doesn't even include some power pool selections either (CC = support by your definition. Support via: Fear in Presence pool, stun/KD in fighting pool, KD in flight pool, healing in medicine pool, and probably a few more I missed). Therefore, your argument is flawed. It's nice when you over-simplify roles huh?
I truthfully see a lot of difference between the functions of the specific classes within each AT. And, since you like to bring up WoW into discussions, I never really saw all that much difference between talent specs within each class. Just some skill modifiers here and there with a few new skills depending on talent tree. However, each person within a class had the exact same selection of base powers. CoX doesn't have that within their AT system. And, with the P/S selection, a person molds their character which whatever power choices they want. Thus, no carbon-copy classes in CoX like in WoW. Heck... DAoC's class system was much more diverse and interesting than WoW's system.
And, about my ADHD statement, you did not counter it at all. You claimed "ADHD children are not the ones paying for the WOW accounts.", which is a common sense statement. Your claim that "Adults with 2-3 jobs" is something you can't back up at all. That countered nothing. My arguments to the previous still stand. With the continual increases in leveling speed that Blizz implements in the game, the Barrens and Alliance chat being horrendous, and my rebuttal about your "Adults with 2-3 jobs" argument, it's proof that ADHD children are the ones driving WoW.
Again, CoX IS NOT the same genre as Gears of War. MMORPG is not the same as FPS, despite whatever claims you think you have. I'm sorry you are unenlightened enough to see that, but it's fact. The only two games that attempted to combine FPS and MMORPG together ended up massively failing (Hellgate and Tabula Rasa). Therefore, these two genres are not compatible at all at this time. Therefore, your arguments on this subject are moot and not worth rebuttal.
That's all good that you claim you "love COX, or rather, I love the potential, the concept, and the customer approach of the game." However, your statements for the change of this game speaks against your claim of "I love COX". This game does need tweaks, but it's nowhere near as horrible as you make it out to be. Stop trying to make it into another WoW clone... we have more than enough of those as is. And, not all games need to focuson PvP.
I'm done with arguing with you on this thread. It's apparent that your motives are destined towards destroying this game through WoW'ification rather than actually helping it. I've made my arguments against your suggestions and I'll stick with them to the end. Thus, there is no reason for me to continue arguing on this thread.
*Edited to reduce the size of the post by removing the redundant repost of replies* I truthfully do not care about your self-proclaimed "veterancy" of MMO's, as this is a site dedicated to MMORPG's, which are not always the same. True, all MMORPG's change overtime, but so should the player. And, frankly, I cannot think of any class-based game that allows a person to respec their entire class, which is exactly what you are arguing about. Each "class" in CoX is called an Archtype or AT. AT does not mean "class". The classes of CoX include both AT + primary/secondary (P/S from now on) powerset selections, as the P/S selections can vastly differ in playability. True, the each person within a specific AT has a specific role (just like WoW Druids, Shaman, Priests, and even Paladins fall under healing roles), but the accomplishment of said role vastly differs based on the P/S selection of the AT, which means that each P/S selection can be defined as a "class". Therefore, your respec proposal for respecing P/S selections would be constituted as respec of a class. And, I have yet to see a class-based game that has that option for respec. Please stop using the role of "Healer" in CoX. The fantasy people that came over to CoX damaged the game with their self-proclaimed idea that Defenders (and later Corruptors) needed to heal to be successful. No, healing is a part of support, which is the Defender's main priority. However, your argument is flawed. Because, if we replace "Healer" with "Support", then we have your self-proclaimed roles within CoX being: Support, "Tank, Melee DPS, and Ranged DPS." Again, there's much crossover between classes of AT's. Let's look at these differences, shall we? Defender AT (Support/Ranged DPS = crossover), Corruptor (Ranged DPS/Support = crossover), Mastermind AT (Ranged or Melee DPS (depending on primary)/Support). Also, since you argue that CC is considered support, then: Tank AT (Melee DPS/Support (depending on P/S selection (due to CC)), Brute AT (same as Tank AT), Stalker AT (same as Tank AT). That doesn't even include some power pool selections either (CC = support by your definition. Support via: Fear in Presence pool, stun/KD in fighting pool, KD in flight pool, healing in medicine pool, and probably a few more I missed). Therefore, your argument is flawed. It's nice when you over-simplify roles huh? I truthfully see a lot of difference between the functions of the specific classes within each AT. And, since you like to bring up WoW into discussions, I never really saw all that much difference between talent specs within each class. Just some skill modifiers here and there with a few new skills depending on talent tree. However, each person within a class had the exact same selection of base powers. CoX doesn't have that within their AT system. And, with the P/S selection, a person molds their character which whatever power choices they want. Thus, no carbon-copy classes in CoX like in WoW. Heck... DAoC's class system was much more diverse and interesting than WoW's system. And, about my ADHD statement, you did not counter it at all. You claimed "ADHD children are not the ones paying for the WOW accounts.", which is a common sense statement. Your claim that "Adults with 2-3 jobs" is something you can't back up at all. That countered nothing. My arguments to the previous still stand. With the continual increases in leveling speed that Blizz implements in the game, the Barrens and Alliance chat being horrendous, and my rebuttal about your "Adults with 2-3 jobs" argument, it's proof that ADHD children are the ones driving WoW. Again, CoX IS NOT the same genre as Gears of War. RPG is not the same as FPS, despite whatever claims you think you have. I'm sorry you are unenlightened enough to see that, but it's fact. The only two games that attempted to combine FPS and MMORPG together ended up massively failing (Hellgate and Tabula Rasa). Therefore, these two genres are not compatible at all at this time. Therefore, your arguments on this subject are moot and not worth rebuttal. That's all good that you claim you "love COX, or rather, I love the potential, the concept, and the customer approach of the game." However, your statements for the change of this game speaks against your claim of "I love COX". This game does need tweaks, but it's nowhere near as horrible as you make it out to be. Stop trying to make it into another WoW clone... we have more than enough of those as is. And, not all games need to focuson PvP. I'm done with arguing with you on this thread. It's apparent that your motives are destined towards destroying this game through WoW'ification rather than actually helping it. I've made my arguments against your suggestions and I'll stick with them to the end. Thus, there is no reason for me to continue arguing on this thread.
I think you need to go back and reread the title of the post before responding. I will prove you wrong some more when I have time. I did want to say that there is an RPG out there that uses the same engine as Gears of War. It's called Mass Effect. Maybe you've heard of it? Wait till you see what Bioware does with that engine when they revamp it for KOTOR Online.
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it is the most repetitive game ive ever played. you fight the same crap over and over and over and over and over in the same areas over and over. the character custom job is outstanding. powers are fun, travel powers rule. other then that, boring
Looking at a power set before you choose it? How many hours have you been playing this genre. As a veteran of more than 20 MMOs, I can state with confidence that power sets within the genre are always subject to change, transform, and transmogrify. I guess when you talk about players doing their homework, you are also implying that they should read patch notes that aren't written yet? It's up to companies to make games that are worth playing. It's not the duty of players to enjoy a game in spite of glaring flaws. You know, what, Souldrainer, I feel what you're saying. I really do. I have a few alts where I started playing and got leveled up, and got dissatisfied with the powers. Even after doing my homework, I rolled a character that I later wished I'd rolled differently. But I learned to be more careful when choosing powers and to not include powers in your character name (ex.: claws -> Blue Claw). Some I quit playing in the hope that one day, total respecs would be offered. Others, I kept playing and have grown to care for. When creating new characters, I have a better sense of what I'm getting myself into and what my preferences are. These lessons have made my own gameplay better and given me a more enjoyable gaming experience.
The "roles" you describe are not roles at all, they are subset functions within a role. For example, you mention controllers as CC and support, but for some reason overlook the fact that CC *is* support. There are 4 roles in COX: Healer, Tank, Melee DPS, and Ranged DPS. I see very little cross over in these roles. There is a small modicum of cross over, don't get me wrong, but the crux of the issue is that COX offers very little cross over in comparison to other MMOs. Play other games and you will see a huge difference. I'm just going to second what Vato said.
...
As far as enhancements, COX has 6 pieces of gear for each power. WOW has 17 pieces per character. I am not sure on the exact math, but you do get something like 20 powers in COX before you reach max level, so something like 200 items. Which one is more gear intensive now? But you don't have to enhance your powers. Just because you have 200 enhancement slots doesn't mean you have to use them all. I often wish I could save my slots for later powers and wind up slotting Brawl because there's nothing else I care to slot. It's another beef I have with the game, but something that doesn't stop me from enjoying it. I think my main hero (lvl 50 scrapper) has 10-15 empty slots. He hits hard enough and is fast enough and is defensive (?) enough that I don't have to fill every single slot. At the lower levels, I don't bother to enhance at all unless somethign just happens to drop that I can use. Would rather save my $$$ for a better enhancement later or a costume change.
As far as changing costumes, that's partly my point With very few exceptions, none of the gear or things you attain in the game have a direct impact on your appearance. This is the problem I have with appearance vs. gear. Okay, so a lot of the non-Invention enhancements are objects: jewelry, tech, armor, etc. I like the fact that enhancements don't alter the appearance of my character. For those times when I feel like RPing, a medeival helm doesn't really go with the look of my elderly Native American herbalist. Nor do Li Ti Kwai's earrings fit with my steampunk brute. I really think it was the most sensible option for the devs when you have such a wide array character customizations.
Gears of War = FPS, CoX = MMORPG. You are comparing Apples and Oranges there
Have to disagree with Vato here. it is actually possible to compare apples and oranges. They're both fruit, both have seeds, grow on trees, etc. Check out the artivle on wikipedia for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apples_and_oranges. Not really. Gears and COX are both video games which can be played online. If I am writing a horror story and I read the works of Shakespeare, what's wrong with that? When you are creating something worthwhile, you'd be wise to consider the importance of ALL works that have come before you. Otherwise, your horizons become narrow and your design techniques less crisp. If the genre you write has persistent content and persistent worlds, this means that even your contemporaries should be considered as possible influences. The problem with writing a horror story and using Shakespeare as a guide is that the Bard didn't write much horror. Macbeth, maybe Hamlet, maybe King Lear might be of assistance. Not so much his comedies, tragedies, romances, or sonnets. If you're looking for help with plot structure (iffy), iambic pentameter, other form stuff, then he might be useful. The Christian Bible and Roget's Thesaurus are both books, but reading them won't help you write an enclopedia. Unless of course, you're writing an entry on those particular items...
Formatting issues again. My stuff in orange.
------------- The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.
This could have been mentioned already (what can I say, I have no patience to read 13 pages of critiques), but one thing CoX has going for it is the strength of it's community. Never in any of the many MMO's I've played have I seen a more cohesive group. Perhaps I just joined the right Super Groups and whatnot, but the active community kept me actively engaged for a good long while.
it is the most repetitive game ive ever played. you fight the same crap over and over and over and over and over in the same areas over and over. the character custom job is outstanding. powers are fun, travel powers rule. other then that, boring
Yeah, and that is what makes it so tragic. I have stopped and returned to CoX many times. I have 7 or 8 level 50s. So many things about the game are great... except for the total lack of things to DO.
When friends ask me "How can you play that game? What is fun about it" I make the following analogy:
City of Heroes is like owning a Ferrari that is really fun to drive, but you are only allowed to drive it in a parking lot.
2- Nerfs, they remove the interest of long lasting players, which mean less players sticking.
3- Poor balance, when a player realize his character is not what it is "supposed" to be, that player may very well quit...especially if it is a 7th level 50 character! Combine this with nerfs and you get an massive interest killer.
Ive heard its got a steady amount of people playing but why is it not big? (Big as in... umm 2x the subs it has now i guess)
So far the only thing ive noticed that is not easy to do it soloing. (im only level 20 MA/DA Scrapper)
But that could just be the class i chose. Anyways the games awsome, so many different things you can do for character customization. The amount of unique character development is almost limitless.
Comments
My reasons for not sticking with CoH/CoV:
Cookie cutter dungeons.
Was too much of a care-bear game, imho.
Dumb criminals with limited aggro range or poor eye-site all over the place.
XP was the only reason to run instances... that and to finish up a questline that leads you to another area (that will end in the exact same instance, more or less = cookie cutter dungeons).
The lore didn't pull me in and make me feel like part of the gaming world.
The Villains should've been able to raid and vice versa.
Most of the world was just art. I wanted to be able to fly up the side of a building and see people inside... or bust through a window and go inside. If I wanted to be a villain that way, so be it.
Character creation is great in the game. I don't think anyone disagree's there. But overall, I got tired of the game pretty quickly. I tried it 4 different times and each time, I just lost interest fairly early on into my effort to get hooked by this game. It just never happened for me.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I'm no WoW fan, especially of the godawful raids, but what I remember is them releasing WoW not long after CoH's first major nerf patch. Not great timing for CoH, especially with WoW being such a quality product.
Ignoring WoW's end-game raid-grind (which I found monumentally repetitive) CoH really is more repetitive. It is largely a surface (visual) thing but it's an important factor. In WoW and other mmos there are vastly different landscapes, mobs etc. In CoH the whole game experience looks much the same from beginning to end.
I did not like the way they conviently split the population with the introduction of CoV as a "new" game.. Which basically all but killed the population in CoH and all of a sudden everyone was a villian JUST to try out the "new" game (which wasn't really new at all..)
I hated the fact that they gave the villains certain things with no hero equivalent for so long like those matron powers and new power sets even costume sets..
I thought the PvP zones were fun and at least had a point to them and I also liked the super group head quarters thing, but once CoV came out, basically my whole SG left for villain side and PvP maps became villain zerg fests that just seen heroes getting masterminded and assasinated over and over again by many many many of them..
Basically, they should have finished CoV before CoH and intergrated it into one game giving folks a choice between the two (as warhammer will do), but they basically destroyed one half of the game while promoting the other half.. Was a very fun game though.. The physics were very cool.. Ice blasting people into walls and stuff..
i think Cryptics Studios never intended to make a Villains game when CoH was released... it was after some time tat they decided having a Villains themed game will bring more players in.
I only played it for 2 weeks but what turned me away was not the genre. I felt like everything looked the same, the gameplay felt very, very repetitive. I was really let down by the overall feel.
A lot of people really enjoy it, I wanted to get into it but it just didn't resonate with me. I'm not against the genre but the whole layout and approach felt whacked.
The character customization was cool, tho.
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True - and in fact they never intended to have any kind of pvp in the game.
This was another major problem back in the early days. The original game was a hell of a lot more fun to play than the one we have today.
But they introduced arena pvp and all of a sudden the CoH forums were flooded with "that build is too powerful - nerf, nerf, nerf!!!" And it's never stopped.
And the nerfs, along with the rise of WoW, drove away a sizeable chunk of the playerbase.
CoH was a well designed whole that has suffered a lot of compromises:
It was designed as one thing, and then twisted repeatedly to accommodate these extras.
maps they use get boring after awhile, they use the same ones
plus people like loot, thrill of discovery, crafting and im sure a few more things that ive missed..
For me, CoX only gets exciting from lvl 10 onwards where theres a death penalty. In lvl 20-ish to 30-ish the missions are mush more fun to play honestly
Needs more missions and alot more variety of maps for those missions. PVP sucks, it was just tacked on and can never be really balanced. Nothing you do affects the game world. The games version of guilds kind of suck too. Not enough things for the super groupss to do as a super group. City of Villains was another tacked on feature, you realy need villains to be in same world as the heroes. Development is split between the 2 games.
All that being said, this is still a great game. It has more teaming than any other 3 mmo's combined, the character creation is unmatched. Unlike most mmo's you dont have to wait to end lvl to have fun. If it wasnt successful, champions online and dc universe might not be in the works.
Good topic. I played city of heroes for about 3 years (and villains when it came out).
My experience was that it was very repetative. After I tried every combo and AT it got very boring. I could seriously, eat, do laundry, and play guitar while playing city of heroes and not even skip a beat. Point, Click...Point, Click..
Please don't get sidetracked on this next comment. But I'm currently playing AoC, and the combat alone keeps me on my toes, I can't walk away while a power is activating. I'm not comparing the games at all, I'm just saying it needs something more. Its a great game, and I loved it at first. But I suppose anything gets boring after 3 years.
I would definitely recommend it for first time MMO's. its very simple to understand, as opposed to WoW and the like. No need to worry about numbers, and armor, etc.. That was one of my favorite parts. You could get into the math game with it, but you didn't need to at all. I played a ice/storm controller mostly, was by far my fav, but after I hit 50, there was nothing really to do. PvP zones were dead, and if they weren't dead, it was completely uneven. There were always 10 heroes, and 2 villains or vice versa. I know a lot of people were against it, but I was always for narrowing down the pvp servers.
I digress. Its a great game, but as others mentioned it needs way more marketing, and something, I dont know what exactly, but something to set it apart.
Here are my reasons:
So yeah, COX makes a great first impression, but from levels 2-5, 7-13, 15-19, 21-29, and 31-50 there is nothing new to see. The game has 5 levels worth of interesting developments crammed into 50 levels that take forever to obtain.
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I wholeheartedly disagree with every point you have except the last one.
So, you agree with my complaint, and yet you decide to argue anyway based on some bizarre assumption that ADHD was my reason for bringing it up? OK, whatever.
ADHD children are not the ones paying for the WOW accounts. Adults with 2-3 jobs are, and we need faster leveling because we frankly don't have time to sit there for 15, 30, or 100 hours looking at the same exact mobs and terrain, and clicking the exact same buttons over and over like the COX players do.
A game does not need PVP to be great, but an MMO does need PVP to be successful, and to get me to subscribe. PVP is the one form of gameplay that will always have a dynamic element to it.
It's not a gear game? Try going 1-50 without any inspirations or enhancements then. You can't, because the game pretty much requires you to gear up. COX might possibly be the most gear dependent game in MMO history. It's is a gear game that's very poorly disguised as a non-gear game. I can't believe you fell for it.
Yup. The first thing you will be thinking about is the "fast paced" action, while the first thing I will be thinking about is the lack thereof. Gears of War is a game of fast paced action. COX is just a run of the mill grind MMO that would have been F2P years ago if not for its character generator.Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
So... maybe people should take some time in looking up what a powerset does before they choose it. I mean, with the addition of issue 12 (or somewhere around there) they added the ability to look at the stats of the powers in all powersets. Not to mention guides and players on the official forums. Thus, there's no excuse in players not doing their homework in picking powersets.
Anyways, your original argument was that the classes in CoX couldn't be hybrids, unlike WoW. My counter to that is, quite a few AT's in CoX play multiple roles in a group at once (Controllers = CC & Support, Defenders = Support, dmg, and even some CC, Corrupters = dmg, support, and some CC, Masterminds = support & some CC... Heck, all AT's have some form of CC usually). Of course, my examples are dictated by what primary and secondary power pools are chosen, as not all do the same thing. Therefore, it sounds like there's hybrids in CoX as well.
So, you agree with my complaint, and yet you decide to argue anyway based on some bizarre assumption that ADHD was my reason for bringing it up? OK, whatever. It pays to include the person's WHOLE argument rather than trying to split it up to cause confusion. See below for answer. ADHD children are not the ones paying for the WOW accounts. Adults with 2-3 jobs are, and we need faster leveling because we frankly don't have time to sit there for 15, 30, or 100 hours looking at the same exact mobs and terrain, and clicking the exact same buttons over and over like the COX players do.No crap that the ADHD children aren't paying for their own accounts. Adults do pay for the accounts. However, where's your proof about more "Adults with 2-3 jobs" are playing than ADHD children. My proof is in Alliance general chat and Barrens chat. If those are adults, then the world is seriously more F'd up than I thought. Not to mention, how in the Hell are these "Adults with 2-3 jobs" going to have time to do the 2+ hour raids that Blizz likes to use for endgame? Yeah... they don't. No "Adults with 2-3 jobs" are going to have enough time to do that. Thus, back to my ADHD children explanation.
They just want to get to the endgame as fast as possible (for a reason I have no clue about as WoW's endgame raiding system sucks IMO). And, it's proof that Blizz focuses more on the 2+ hour raiding system rather than the journey to the endgame due to them continuing to increase leveling speeds. Again... ADHD.
It's not a gear game? Try going 1-50 without any inspirations or enhancements then. You can't, because the game pretty much requires you to gear up. COX might possibly be the most gear dependent game in MMO history. It's is a gear game that's very poorly disguised as a non-gear game. I can't believe you fell for it. Ok... if you put it that way, then I guess enhancements could be considered gear. However, this game is still nowhere near as gear intensive as WoW and other games as you can still function in subpar enhancements. On top of it, with the new crafted enhancements, you don't have to replace them at all if you don't want too. In your exact words, "Undistinctive gear: The only way to change your appearance is through tailoring sessions @ 20 and special effects at 30. Instead, enhancements should slightly alter the appearance or animation of the power they are linked to. Yes, the initial character customization is awesome, but if you can't upgrade your appearance, it grows stale and you find yourself back at the character generation screen again." You do realize that you can go back to the tailor to change any costume you have at any time. Thus, shockingly, you CAN change your appearance. Also, by what you are describing here, you want to focus on uncontrolled altering of a characters looks (you want enhancements to influence the appearance of powers... the best enhancement will never make the power look the best in all players eyes), when this game is focused on controlled appearance of players' characters.However, if I'm in a group, the last thing I'll be thinking about is "warehouse again?" as the action is flying by so fast that I have time to notice usually. But, truthfully, lack of tileset diversity is probably one of the few drawbacks this game has.
The first thing you will be thinking about is the "fast paced" action, while the first thing I will be thinking about is the lack thereof. Gears of War is a game of fast paced action. COX is just a run of the mill grind MMO that would have been F2P years ago if not for its character generator. Gears of War = FPS, CoX = MMORPG. You are comparing Apples and Oranges there. Nice try at bashing the game on that one, but you fail. I'm sorry that you think CoX combat isn't fast paced, but it is when in groups. Apparently you were soloing the whole time you were playing... If you were that is.
It's apparent that you despise this game. It's clear that you are more focused on the "quick to endgame" focus of WoW (and games similar to that philosophy). I also highly question if you've even played the game based on some of your replies. Thus, the reliability of your opinion is... questionable.
Looking at a power set before you choose it? How many hours have you been playing this genre. As a veteran of more than 20 MMOs, I can state with confidence that power sets within the genre are always subject to change, transform, and transmogrify. I guess when you talk about players doing their homework, you are also implying that they should read patch notes that aren't written yet? It's up to companies to make games that are worth playing. It's not the duty of players to enjoy a game in spite of glaring flaws.
The "roles" you describe are not roles at all, they are subset functions within a role. For example, you mention controllers as CC and support, but for some reason overlook the fact that CC *is* support. There are 4 roles in COX: Healer, Tank, Melee DPS, and Ranged DPS. I see very little cross over in these roles. There is a small modicum of cross over, don't get me wrong, but the crux of the issue is that COX offers very little cross over in comparasin to other MMOs. Play other games and you will see a huge difference.
As for the inclusion of whole arguments and splitting things up, if your ideas are not coherent enough from one sentence to the next, then maybe you should edit your posts better. They're your own words, after all, and they should not confuse you. Then again, you say "it pays." So, how much does it pay and who's buying? Just curious.
Where's your prood that it's ADHD? You started with an argument which I countered. If you can't prove your statement, then I don't have to either. It's not that I can't. I certainly can, but why place the burden of proof on myself when you are the one who started throwing around statistically charged terms like ADHD. Or, was the "ADHD" just supposed to be blind libel?
As far as enhancements, COX has 6 pieces of gear for each power. WOW has 17 pieces per character. I am not sure on the exact math, but you do get something like 20 powers in COX before you reach max level, so something like 200 items. Which one is more gear intensive now?
As far as changing costumes, that's partly my point With very few exceptions, none of the gear or things you attain in the game have a direct impact on your appearance. This is the problem I have with appearance vs. gear.
Not really. Gears and COX are both video games which can be played online. If I am writing a horror story and I read the works of Shakespeare, what's wrong with that? When you are creating something worthwhile, you'd be wise to consider the importance of ALL works that have come before you. Otherwise, your horizons become narrow and your design techniques less crisp. If the genre you write has persistent content and persistent worlds, this means that even your contemporaries should be considered as possible influences.
You are mistaken to think that I dislike COX. I love COX, or rather, I love the potential, the concept, and the customer approach of the game. COX shines really well in certain places. The sidekick system and character generator are top notch. I just think that COX falls short on a vast array of things that drive this genre forward, while barely managing to keep itself alive with other features. If this were the only game in the genre since 2004, it would be awesome, but it's not. COX is a great game, but it's not super big because it's a niche title which offers little for casuals and nothing for PVPers.
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The reasons why this game is not bigger are pretty simple.
1) Absolutely nothing to do with your level 50 characters. This sucks because by level 50 your character is a TON of fun.
2) No gameplay variety at all. You run warehouse mission after warehouse mission. No mini games. Base building concept is awesome but foolishly limited to super groups.
3) No feeling that you are impacting the world. This is important for a super hero game.
-Glamis
Threshold RPG - Our World, Your Imagination
http://www.thresholdrpg.com
You are mistaken to think that I dislike COX. I love COX, or rather, I love the potential, the concept, and the customer approach of the game. COX shines really well in certain places. The sidekick system and character generator are top notch. I just think that COX falls short on a vast array of things that drive this genre forward, while barely managing to keep itself alive with other features. If this were the only game in the genre since 2004, it would be awesome, but it's not. COX is a great game, but it's not super big because it's a niche title which offers little for casuals and nothing for PVPers.
*Edited to reduce the size of the post by removing the redundant repost of replies and to fix a typo*
I truthfully do not care about your self-proclaimed "veterancy" of MMO's, as this is a site dedicated to MMORPG's, which are not always the same. True, all MMORPG's change overtime, but so should the player. And, frankly, I cannot think of any class-based game that allows a person to respec their entire class, which is exactly what you are arguing about. Each "class" in CoX is called an Archtype or AT. AT does not mean "class". The classes of CoX include both AT + primary/secondary (P/S from now on) powerset selections, as the P/S selections can vastly differ in playability. True, the each person within a specific AT has a specific role (just like WoW Druids, Shaman, Priests, and even Paladins fall under healing roles), but the accomplishment of said role vastly differs based on the P/S selection of the AT, which means that each P/S selection can be defined as a "class". Therefore, your respec proposal for respecing P/S selections would be constituted as respec of a class. And, I have yet to see a class-based game that has that option for respec.
Please stop using the role of "Healer" in CoX. The fantasy people that came over to CoX damaged the game with their self-proclaimed idea that Defenders (and later Corruptors) needed to heal to be successful. No, healing is a part of support, which is the Defender's main priority. However, your argument is flawed. Because, if we replace "Healer" with "Support", then we have your self-proclaimed roles within CoX being: Support, "Tank, Melee DPS, and Ranged DPS." Again, there's much crossover between classes of AT's. Let's look at these differences, shall we? Defender AT (Support/Ranged DPS = crossover), Corruptor (Ranged DPS/Support = crossover), Mastermind AT (Ranged or Melee DPS (depending on primary)/Support). Also, since you argue that CC is considered support, then: Tank AT (Melee DPS/Support (depending on P/S selection (due to CC)), Brute AT (same as Tank AT), Stalker AT (same as Tank AT). That doesn't even include some power pool selections either (CC = support by your definition. Support via: Fear in Presence pool, stun/KD in fighting pool, KD in flight pool, healing in medicine pool, and probably a few more I missed). Therefore, your argument is flawed. It's nice when you over-simplify roles huh?
I truthfully see a lot of difference between the functions of the specific classes within each AT. And, since you like to bring up WoW into discussions, I never really saw all that much difference between talent specs within each class. Just some skill modifiers here and there with a few new skills depending on talent tree. However, each person within a class had the exact same selection of base powers. CoX doesn't have that within their AT system. And, with the P/S selection, a person molds their character which whatever power choices they want. Thus, no carbon-copy classes in CoX like in WoW. Heck... DAoC's class system was much more diverse and interesting than WoW's system.
And, about my ADHD statement, you did not counter it at all. You claimed "ADHD children are not the ones paying for the WOW accounts.", which is a common sense statement. Your claim that "Adults with 2-3 jobs" is something you can't back up at all. That countered nothing. My arguments to the previous still stand. With the continual increases in leveling speed that Blizz implements in the game, the Barrens and Alliance chat being horrendous, and my rebuttal about your "Adults with 2-3 jobs" argument, it's proof that ADHD children are the ones driving WoW.
Again, CoX IS NOT the same genre as Gears of War. MMORPG is not the same as FPS, despite whatever claims you think you have. I'm sorry you are unenlightened enough to see that, but it's fact. The only two games that attempted to combine FPS and MMORPG together ended up massively failing (Hellgate and Tabula Rasa). Therefore, these two genres are not compatible at all at this time. Therefore, your arguments on this subject are moot and not worth rebuttal.
That's all good that you claim you "love COX, or rather, I love the potential, the concept, and the customer approach of the game." However, your statements for the change of this game speaks against your claim of "I love COX". This game does need tweaks, but it's nowhere near as horrible as you make it out to be. Stop trying to make it into another WoW clone... we have more than enough of those as is. And, not all games need to focus on PvP.
I'm done with arguing with you on this thread. It's apparent that your motives are destined towards destroying this game through WoW'ification rather than actually helping it. I've made my arguments against your suggestions and I'll stick with them to the end. Thus, there is no reason for me to continue arguing on this thread.
I think you need to go back and reread the title of the post before responding. I will prove you wrong some more when I have time. I did want to say that there is an RPG out there that uses the same engine as Gears of War. It's called Mass Effect. Maybe you've heard of it? Wait till you see what Bioware does with that engine when they revamp it for KOTOR Online.
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it is the most repetitive game ive ever played. you fight the same crap over and over and over and over and over in the same areas over and over. the character custom job is outstanding. powers are fun, travel powers rule. other then that, boring
Formatting issues again. My stuff in orange.
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The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.
This could have been mentioned already (what can I say, I have no patience to read 13 pages of critiques), but one thing CoX has going for it is the strength of it's community. Never in any of the many MMO's I've played have I seen a more cohesive group. Perhaps I just joined the right Super Groups and whatnot, but the active community kept me actively engaged for a good long while.
Yeah, and that is what makes it so tragic. I have stopped and returned to CoX many times. I have 7 or 8 level 50s. So many things about the game are great... except for the total lack of things to DO.
When friends ask me "How can you play that game? What is fun about it" I make the following analogy:
City of Heroes is like owning a Ferrari that is really fun to drive, but you are only allowed to drive it in a parking lot.
-Glamis
Threshold RPG - Our World, Your Imagination
http://www.thresholdrpg.com
1- The setting, superheros is subpar.
2- Nerfs, they remove the interest of long lasting players, which mean less players sticking.
3- Poor balance, when a player realize his character is not what it is "supposed" to be, that player may very well quit...especially if it is a 7th level 50 character! Combine this with nerfs and you get an massive interest killer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJj7gMGvblA
This link prolly make more sense than debating with the DEV-ious anyway! And she is lovely!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
1. Repetitive play
2. Open GL