Can you guys please stop attacking each other? It's kind of going off topic and it's just getting too negative. I'm interested in hearing more peoples thoughts/opinions on the topic.
You have to understand that the moment anyone mentions God on a forum these days, the Dawkins "brights" invariably start attacking. They bait, they badger and they villify. Not very nice people, and not very secure in their views. They are at war, and are fighting a "no holds barred" campaign. The most irrational "rationalists" the world has ever seen.
So this is a question that appears many times in my head. Why did God create an earth full of so much evil and pain? Was it to teach human beings a lesson so that they would learn to full love each other?
Try to look at your question the other way around: the Earth was there and then came men - why did they create god?
Then ask yourself where does evil and pain come from? A hint: if men didn't exist, would evil and pain exist?
So this is a question that appears many times in my head. Why did God create an earth full of so much evil and pain? Was it to teach human beings a lesson so that they would learn to full love each other?
Try to look at your question the other way around: the Earth was there and then came men - why did they create god? To give reason and meaning to their lives and to explain the phenomena of this earth and existence itself.
Then ask yourself where does evil and pain come from? A hint: if men didn't exist, would evil and pain exist? Probaly not , or very very little. There are still the pains that nature can cause man but man can inflict far worse.
So this is a question that appears many times in my head. Why did God create an earth full of so much evil and pain? Was it to teach human beings a lesson so that they would learn to full love each other?
Well going from the Gurus teachings and Hinduism , it makes the most sense that this earth is a piece of art or more so an on going movie. It has all the layers of expressions that make a piece of artwork complete : disgust , beauty , hate , love , happiness , sadness , health , disease. Basically it is full of dualities , why can't we just have all the good things? Well then I suppose this on going cosmic movie/art of God wouldn't be as interesting. It makes sense to me that it is nothing from than a drama , a play or a movie as the Gurus would say. If we really were hear to learn some great lesson , couldn't it be taught in a more...positive and better way? Why don't we live on the earth forever? Why arn't we immortal? Well obviously man wasn't created to live on such a place of duality for eternity.
Who is God? If God is omnipotent , omniscient and omnipresent than why did he give man so many issues to work out on his own and why is he so mysterious? Why is he kept so hidden from us? In one of the scriptures is says that God is infinite so how can he exist in a place of such finiteness. But then why are we finite? what was the point of making us suffer through this finite , stressful and negative world just so God could have a on going drama to entertain himself with? And what are we rewarded with for having to participate for a good hundred years without our own will , so we didn't will ourselves to be created on this earth why should we be trapped here? And yet the only way out is through this very painful process called death. How is it fair? Simply put , it isn't. If heaven does exist and it is eternal and is eternal love , peace and joy then that would be a fair reward but the question is why arn't we already there? Why are we here in this body of gross matter as a slave of the sense objects? Do we really reincarnate?
You're reasoning from a wrong point of view. It's not certain god exists (I do not believe, but if someone can prove to me there's something more they can try)
As for me? I think there is no purpose to earth, we are destined to just use all the natural resources and hope we can travel to other planets before we're out of them .
Reincarnation is something i'd rather believe in though...
as to the guy that posted before me, yeah god was probably created by us to explain stuff we couldn't grasp at the time. So the more we learn, the less important god becomes. Up to the point he/she/it is no longer necessary.
The thing i find most repeated here, is people avoiding all the lessons in the Bible, and just pointing out all the things that seem fictional.
Sometimes you have to make something more apealing to the mind, in order for the underlying lesson to stick, and eventualy sink in.
All the resistance to a book teaching simple ethical, and philisophical foundations, is widely condemned for simple aspects that you would overlook in any other situation.
Persoanly im very open minded, but when i see people dismiss the bible, entirey becuase they feel its fiction, i cant help but feel, that such shallowness, dosent effect other oppertunities in there life.
Sun Tzu tought that people should know there enemie. I bring this up because theres more to that advice then just understanding your enemie, its about learning and understanding things you are completly against, and gaining knowlege, strength and wisdom and maybe even common ground.
The thing i find most repeated here, is people avoiding all the lessons in the Bible, and just pointing out all the things that seem fictional. Sometimes you have to make something more apealing to the mind, in order for the underlying lesson to stick, and eventualy sink in. All the resistance to a book teaching simple ethical, and philisophical foundations, is widely condemned for simple aspects that you would overlook in any other situation. Persoanly im very open minded, but when i see people dismiss the bible, entirey becuase they feel its fiction, i cant help but feel, that such shallowness, dosent effect other oppertunities in there life. Sun Tzu tought that people should know there enemie. I bring this up because theres more to that advice then just understanding your enemie, its about learning and understanding things you are completly against, and gaining knowlege, strength and wisdom and maybe even common ground.
That book did teach people ethical and philisophical stuff and it suited the time it was written in (sorry, can't find the correct sentence.) But it's outdated, it's well... just a symbol, people try to apply that so-called wisdom inside it to stuff that didn't exist back then. THAT'S what's wrong with it.
It was necessary to have guidelines back then, scare people in line by threatening with something like a hell. Or promising eternal joy for those who do what it says. Nowadays people have common sence, and for the most part of the civilized world(don't take me wrong on this one, it's just what they call it) a pretty good education.
God did not create earth, nor did he create the universe. It's not impossible to grasp the creation of our universe, it's just not possible right now...
your point about gods role in creation is the main topic obviously, but my point was that many people here bash the Bible because they feel it to be Fiction, yet many of those same people could read a book that is clearly intended to be fiction, for example, a Star Wars book, and find many philisophical and relatively productive lessons withen it. What im saying is just because you dont belive something, dosent mean there isent something to be learned/gained from it. And yes i belive you are correct that its outdated, i am also of the belief that it lost any hope of being gods true word, when thousands upon thousands of people re translated it, across different languages, codes, fragmented sources etc. which in my opinion, made it more of a "heard it threw the grape vine" final product.
As far as the role god plays in the existance of everything from the start, you have to look at 1 simple question. WHAT IS THE VALIDITY OF COINCEDENCE. Because our existance for all these years is based on such a fragile balance of countless factors, it all comes down to if you belive we are the outcome of 100's of 1000's of aspects of existance, all falling into place perfectly, and staying in the balanced co-existance long enough for life to evolve to the point where we can actualy question it.
Fact is nobody knows, and im pretty sure no extent of science will ever prove god dosent exist 100%. So that leaves room for alot of speculation, such as
1. If God exists, and created eveything, what was before him, and/or how did he come to be.
2. If the answer to #1 turns out to bethat god was created, then does this mean there is more then 1 God?
3 If the answer to #2 is yes, then the same querstion could be repeated to the next creater infinatly.
The Bible basicly says that your faith should be enough, and that gods existance is just an understood logic that is and always will be beyond us, and ironicly it also teaches that curiosity can be our calamity "towers of babylon" . I was raised in a Christian house hold, but i have also been raised to question eveything, so the final product is a limbo realy, i believe in the nature of good will, and i think all faiths ultiamtley strive to strengthen unity and peace, yet my questioning these things usualy leads torealising religion at many times, achieves the exact opposite.
your point about gods role in creation is the main topic obviously, but my point was that many people here bash the Bible because they feel it to be Fiction, yet many of those same people could read a book that is clearly intended to be fiction, for example, a Star Wars book, and find many philisophical and relatively productive lessons withen it. What im saying is just because you dont belive something, dosent mean there isent something to be learned/gained from it. And yes i belive you are correct that its outdated, i am also of the belief that it lost any hope of being gods true word, when thousands upon thousands of people re translated it, across different languages, codes, fragmented sources etc. which in my opinion, made it more of a "heard it threw the grape vine" final product.
As far as the role god plays in the existance of everything from the start, you have to look at 1 simple question. WHAT IS THE VALIDITY OF COINCEDENCE. Because our existance for all these years is based on such a fragile balance of countless factors, it all comes down to if you belive we are the outcome of 100's of 1000's of aspects of existance, all falling into place perfectly, and staying in the balanced co-existance long enough for life to evolve to the point where we can actualy question it. Fact is nobody knows, and im pretty sure no extent of science will ever prove god dosent exist 100%. So that leaves room for alot of speculation, such as 1. If God exists, and created eveything, what was before him, and/or how did he come to be. 2. If the answer to #1 turns out to bethat god was created, then does this mean there is more then 1 God? 3 If the answer to #2 is yes, then the same querstion could be repeated to the next creater infinatly. The Bible basicly says that your faith should be enough, and that gods existance is just an understood logic that is and always will be beyond us, and ironicly it also teaches that curiosity can be our calamity "towers of babylon" . I was raised in a Christian house hold, but i have also been raised to question eveything, so the final product is a limbo realy, i believe in the nature of good will, and i think all faiths ultiamtley strive to strengthen unity and peace, yet my questioning these things usualy leads torealising religion at many times, achieves the exact opposite.
I understand where you're coming from. I suppose it is just better to leave these questions alone and go on just enjoying live and living positively and letting the scriptures benefit our lives instead of making us question the the universe.
I use to just not really be bothered with such thoughts and questions and I suppose that's because I completely believed in what religions were out there but now I found myself questioning it and seeing it in another light , to me it seems like we still have yet to create a religion that is actually and truthfully positive , sure all of these religions were positive thousands of years ago but man was vastly more primal and ignorant than we are today. The only real religions that seem to give me purpose today are Hinduism and Buddhism.
Barley anyone has seemed to answer my question as to Why did God create the earth? What was he looking to receive/get out of the earth , why did he do it? The bible states no answer as to why he created Adam and eve. It still makes sense that it was for entertainment , it's the drama of the God/s.
Scripture plains gives the purpose to why God did those things, however, I'm not in a position to debate it with 50 other people as I have done in the past. I just don't have the time. I hope another person who knows anything about the OT and how it relates to a NT reality can post (who would have more time on their hands than I do).
I do have time, however, to have a PM discussion, and if you were willing, we could post our discussion on this topic so others can read without having me reply, as I said before, I don't have time to for debates like I used to.
I have thought about your exact question a few times, and its important to realize any answer is speculation. However, at 1 point in time, i assumed that when god was creating human nature, he eventualy created doubt, id imagine the creation of something that is counter productive to faith, would lead even God to further explore and understand it. It may sound insulting to god, to say that he wouldent fully underatand his creations, but if humans are some sort of perpetual learning experiance,then its a perfect environment for seeking answers that require almost limitless data from a constantly reproducing source of variables.
If there is something God ever encounterd that he truely dident fully realize, that would be an unintentional creation of doubt.
Keep in mind that i had this thought a long time ago. and i have sense then, changed my view, and i simply respect god as existing beyond religions, or any form or origin withen human comprehention.
I have thought about your exact question a few times, and its important to realize any answer is speculation. However, at 1 point in time, i assumed that when god was creating human nature, he eventualy created doubt, id imagine the creation of something that is counter productive to faith, would lead even God to further explore and understand it. It may sound insulting to god, to say that he wouldent fully underatand his creations, but if humans are some sort of perpetual learning experiance,then its a perfect environment for seeking answers that require almost limitless data from a constantly reproducing source of variables.
If there is something God ever encounterd that he truely dident fully realize, that would be an unintentional creation of doubt. Keep in mind that i had this thought a long time ago. and i have sense then, changed my view, and i simply respect god as existing beyond religions, or any form or origin withen human comprehention.
Well that is a quite a bright insight. It somewhat explains the paradox of God being perfect yet creating a highly imperfect world.
but on a serious note I think as far as why evil and pain exists, I believe to balance out the way we live our lives. Sure the world would be better without wars and violence, but from a universal aspect of balance, its just a necessary thing we have to live with as far as any diety might be concerned.
Just as you need predators to hunt prey, I think you need violence to destroy love.
I don't think it makes sense either, but thats what I believe :P
I have thought about your exact question a few times, and its important to realize any answer is speculation. However, at 1 point in time, i assumed that when god was creating human nature, he eventualy created doubt, id imagine the creation of something that is counter productive to faith, would lead even God to further explore and understand it. It may sound insulting to god, to say that he wouldent fully underatand his creations, but if humans are some sort of perpetual learning experiance,then its a perfect environment for seeking answers that require almost limitless data from a constantly reproducing source of variables.
If there is something God ever encounterd that he truely dident fully realize, that would be an unintentional creation of doubt. Keep in mind that i had this thought a long time ago. and i have sense then, changed my view, and i simply respect god as existing beyond religions, or any form or origin withen human comprehention.
Well that is a quite a bright insight. It somewhat explains the paradox of God being perfect yet creating a highly imperfect world.
If I were to ask the average person does cold exist? His or Her answer would likely be yes. However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist. Darkness is the absence of light. Similarly, evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"
If I were to ask the average person does cold exist? His or Her answer would likely be yes. However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist. Darkness is the absence of light. Similarly, evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.
Sorry, I have to comment. That type of thinking is purely philosophical. Cold does exist. Evil does exist. You're right in saying that cold is the absence of heat but it is still COLD. Evil also is not the absence of good. They are two seperate paths instead of one being real while the other being absent. Murder is NOT the absence of justice. Instead, justice is always present and it waits patiently to prevail..........
If I were to ask the average person does cold exist? His or Her answer would likely be yes. However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist. Darkness is the absence of light. Similarly, evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.
Sorry, I have to comment. That type of thinking is purely philosophical. Cold does exist. Evil does exist. You're right in saying that cold is the absence of heat but it is still COLD. Evil also is not the absence of good. They are two seperate paths instead of one being real while the other being absent. Murder is NOT the absence of justice. Instead, justice is always present and it waits patiently to prevail..........
Blessings,
Look at the example of Job in Job chapters 1-2. Satan wanted to destroy Job, and God allowed Satan to do everything but kill Job. God allowed this to happen to prove to Satan that Job was righteous because he loved God, not because God had blessed him so richly. God is sovereign and ultimately in control of everything that happens. Satan cannot do anything that God does not allow. God did not create evil, but He allows evil..
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"
someone mentioned "Perfection", and i think this is also an interesting topic. If you try and imagine perfection,you first few steps ususaly dont involve adding anything, it most likely involves removing things,major things, such as pain and fear, and also lesser things like boredom and lonlynesss. I know that there are things which could be added in persuit of perfection, but if you realy think about it, by the time you truely achieved perfection,theres a good chance you would not be aware of it, because it could very well be beyond "existance". My point is that perfection could very well be the abbsence of everything, i know that sounds negative, but its logical. If u cant think or feel, how can you determine wether there is anything better or worse?
There once was a show with two Wise men, Beavis and Butt-head. During one of there deep debates about the consistancy of "coolness", Butt-Head says 'If everything was cool, how would you know what suck's?"
someone mentioned "Perfection", and i think this is also an interesting topic. If you try and imagine perfection,you first few steps ususaly dont involve adding anything, it most likely involves removing things,major things, such as pain and fear, and also lesser things like boredom and lonlynesss. I know that there are things which could be added in persuit of perfection, but if you realy think about it, by the time you truely achieved perfection,theres a good chance you would not be aware of it, because it could very well be beyond "existance". My point is that perfection could very well be the abbsence of everything, i know that sounds negative, but its logical. If u cant think or feel, how can you determine wether there is anything better or worse? There once was a show with two Wise men, Beavis and Butt-head. During one of there deep debates about the consistancy of "coolness", Butt-Head says 'If everything was cool, how would you know what suck's?"
Well that is what many saints basically refer to as heaven. It's having all the duality removed , there's no Good or evil in heaven , like how life is a movie with good and evil and we're all actors/acting out in this cosmic drama of God but once it's over it's like the relaxation of being offset , not as many things happening , it's much more peaceful.
Also, from the Christian perspective, perfection is not the absence of things - perfection is a Person and His name is Jesus. Heaven is not a buddhist nirvana - it is a real place that is coming to the earth and Jesus will reign in all righteousness and humility while the presence and the glory of God is not restrained; freely to be expressed and experienced. There is much to say, but that is a short snippet!
If I were to ask the average person does cold exist? His or Her answer would likely be yes. However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist. Darkness is the absence of light. Similarly, evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.
Sorry, I have to comment. That type of thinking is purely philosophical. Cold does exist. Evil does exist. You're right in saying that cold is the absence of heat but it is still COLD. Evil also is not the absence of good. They are two seperate paths instead of one being real while the other being absent. Murder is NOT the absence of justice. Instead, justice is always present and it waits patiently to prevail..........
Blessings,
Look at the example of Job in Job chapters 1-2. Satan wanted to destroy Job, and God allowed Satan to do everything but kill Job. God allowed this to happen to prove to Satan that Job was righteous because he loved God, not because God had blessed him so richly. God is sovereign and ultimately in control of everything that happens. Satan cannot do anything that God does not allow. God did not create evil, but He allows evil..
Now that is the rub, God, Holy,seperate from Evil, allowing the Devil to come into his presence,making bets with the Devil.
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
007: And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
008: And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
009: Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
010: Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
011: But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
012: And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Not only that but actually directing the Devils attention towards Job. And it doesn't stop there, the Devil takes his offspring his wealth and finally his health. From the most righteous man upon the Earth. Seems a might strange.
Now lets take a look at Jonah,God commanded him to go to Nineveh, Jonah did not want too so took a ship to Tarshish, which is soon engulfed by a storm, taking lots the crew soon discovers Jonah to be the cause and Jonah confirms this. And states if thrown overboard the storm will abate, being unable to land the ship the crew throws Jonah overboard and the storm abates. Jonah is swallowed by the fish and for three days he languishes praying for forgiveness. God finally has the fish spit him out and commands Jonah again to go to Nineveh, he does, the people of Nineveh repent and Jonah leaves embittered.
So how does the free will of man fit into this? Jonah would have been just as pleased to see Nineveh whiped out. It would appear if God has ordained something man's freewill is of no avail.
A strange and mysterious God he is. And not one to be taken lightly for certain. Again for the record:
" I create the light and i create the darkness, i create the good and evil,i the Lord do all these things,and wherefore have i created evil? That men should fear before me."
Now then we are commanded to love God, but also to fear him, a very difficult contridiction, as men generally hate what they fear not love it.
In the end it all has to come down to faith, the belief that God is good,just,and loving. And he has a purpose unphantomable to us the created. Afterall how can the clay say to the maker "what makest thou"
The faith to believe God has created us, put us through the fire, and empowered us to become Sons of God set to inherit all things from God.
Again for the record: " I create the light and i create the darkness, i create the good and evil,i the Lord do all these things,and wherefore have i created evil? That men should fear before me."
EDIT: Found it - Isaiah 45:7 (although it is apparent you paraphrased it). It would be good to know that 'evil' is not 'evil' in our western minds, as the KJ version is the only version to render the word 'evil'. It speaks of sorrow, calamity and disaster - not evil.
Is. 31:2; 47:11; Amos 3:6 all give references to the Hebrew word that was used here. It context, it means calamity - not evil.
The thing is thought is that the earth has to be for entertainment purposes. God probaly could've created man more purer , such as the way his organs function and the states of his mood so that he would not get angry/violent or hatred in his heart. If God is perfect than he can do anything. We see how we are starting to create worlds such as mmorpgs and we have very bright , beautiful and colourful ones that are more non-violent and very dark , disturbing ones and what content and everything that happens in these worlds are completely up the the creator to decide just as though when God created the earth he created emotions in man such as anger/hatred/rage/violence etc he could've created a world with those qualities as an impossiblity but instead created them in this cosmic drama for entertainment purposes.
Think of it this way , would you watch a movie or play a video game that's billions of hours long without any violence or any negative emotions or atleast some contrast of darkness , most people probaly wouldn't.
Comments
You have to understand that the moment anyone mentions God on a forum these days, the Dawkins "brights" invariably start attacking. They bait, they badger and they villify. Not very nice people, and not very secure in their views. They are at war, and are fighting a "no holds barred" campaign. The most irrational "rationalists" the world has ever seen.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Try to look at your question the other way around: the Earth was there and then came men - why did they create god?
Then ask yourself where does evil and pain come from? A hint: if men didn't exist, would evil and pain exist?
Try to look at your question the other way around: the Earth was there and then came men - why did they create god? To give reason and meaning to their lives and to explain the phenomena of this earth and existence itself.
Then ask yourself where does evil and pain come from? A hint: if men didn't exist, would evil and pain exist? Probaly not , or very very little. There are still the pains that nature can cause man but man can inflict far worse.
You're reasoning from a wrong point of view. It's not certain god exists (I do not believe, but if someone can prove to me there's something more they can try)
As for me? I think there is no purpose to earth, we are destined to just use all the natural resources and hope we can travel to other planets before we're out of them
.
Reincarnation is something i'd rather believe in though...
as to the guy that posted before me, yeah god was probably created by us to explain stuff we couldn't grasp at the time. So the more we learn, the less important god becomes. Up to the point he/she/it is no longer necessary.
The thing i find most repeated here, is people avoiding all the lessons in the Bible, and just pointing out all the things that seem fictional.
Sometimes you have to make something more apealing to the mind, in order for the underlying lesson to stick, and eventualy sink in.
All the resistance to a book teaching simple ethical, and philisophical foundations, is widely condemned for simple aspects that you would overlook in any other situation.
Persoanly im very open minded, but when i see people dismiss the bible, entirey becuase they feel its fiction, i cant help but feel, that such shallowness, dosent effect other oppertunities in there life.
Sun Tzu tought that people should know there enemie. I bring this up because theres more to that advice then just understanding your enemie, its about learning and understanding things you are completly against, and gaining knowlege, strength and wisdom and maybe even common ground.
Stand back, ill take care of this
That book did teach people ethical and philisophical stuff and it suited the time it was written in (sorry, can't find the correct sentence.) But it's outdated, it's well... just a symbol, people try to apply that so-called wisdom inside it to stuff that didn't exist back then. THAT'S what's wrong with it.
It was necessary to have guidelines back then, scare people in line by threatening with something like a hell. Or promising eternal joy for those who do what it says. Nowadays people have common sence, and for the most part of the civilized world(don't take me wrong on this one, it's just what they call it) a pretty good education.
God did not create earth, nor did he create the universe. It's not impossible to grasp the creation of our universe, it's just not possible right now...
your point about gods role in creation is the main topic obviously, but my point was that many people here bash the Bible because they feel it to be Fiction, yet many of those same people could read a book that is clearly intended to be fiction, for example, a Star Wars book, and find many philisophical and relatively productive lessons withen it. What im saying is just because you dont belive something, dosent mean there isent something to be learned/gained from it. And yes i belive you are correct that its outdated, i am also of the belief that it lost any hope of being gods true word, when thousands upon thousands of people re translated it, across different languages, codes, fragmented sources etc. which in my opinion, made it more of a "heard it threw the grape vine" final product.
As far as the role god plays in the existance of everything from the start, you have to look at 1 simple question. WHAT IS THE VALIDITY OF COINCEDENCE. Because our existance for all these years is based on such a fragile balance of countless factors, it all comes down to if you belive we are the outcome of 100's of 1000's of aspects of existance, all falling into place perfectly, and staying in the balanced co-existance long enough for life to evolve to the point where we can actualy question it.
Fact is nobody knows, and im pretty sure no extent of science will ever prove god dosent exist 100%. So that leaves room for alot of speculation, such as
1. If God exists, and created eveything, what was before him, and/or how did he come to be.
2. If the answer to #1 turns out to bethat god was created, then does this mean there is more then 1 God?
3 If the answer to #2 is yes, then the same querstion could be repeated to the next creater infinatly.
The Bible basicly says that your faith should be enough, and that gods existance is just an understood logic that is and always will be beyond us, and ironicly it also teaches that curiosity can be our calamity "towers of babylon" . I was raised in a Christian house hold, but i have also been raised to question eveything, so the final product is a limbo realy, i believe in the nature of good will, and i think all faiths ultiamtley strive to strengthen unity and peace, yet my questioning these things usualy leads torealising religion at many times, achieves the exact opposite.
Stand back, ill take care of this
I understand where you're coming from. I suppose it is just better to leave these questions alone and go on just enjoying live and living positively and letting the scriptures benefit our lives instead of making us question the the universe.
I use to just not really be bothered with such thoughts and questions and I suppose that's because I completely believed in what religions were out there but now I found myself questioning it and seeing it in another light , to me it seems like we still have yet to create a religion that is actually and truthfully positive , sure all of these religions were positive thousands of years ago but man was vastly more primal and ignorant than we are today. The only real religions that seem to give me purpose today are Hinduism and Buddhism.
Barley anyone has seemed to answer my question as to Why did God create the earth? What was he looking to receive/get out of the earth , why did he do it? The bible states no answer as to why he created Adam and eve. It still makes sense that it was for entertainment , it's the drama of the God/s.
Scripture plains gives the purpose to why God did those things, however, I'm not in a position to debate it with 50 other people as I have done in the past. I just don't have the time. I hope another person who knows anything about the OT and how it relates to a NT reality can post (who would have more time on their hands than I do).
I do have time, however, to have a PM discussion, and if you were willing, we could post our discussion on this topic so others can read without having me reply, as I said before, I don't have time to for debates like I used to.
Blessings,
MMO migrant.
I have thought about your exact question a few times, and its important to realize any answer is speculation. However, at 1 point in time, i assumed that when god was creating human nature, he eventualy created doubt, id imagine the creation of something that is counter productive to faith, would lead even God to further explore and understand it. It may sound insulting to god, to say that he wouldent fully underatand his creations, but if humans are some sort of perpetual learning experiance,then its a perfect environment for seeking answers that require almost limitless data from a constantly reproducing source of variables.
If there is something God ever encounterd that he truely dident fully realize, that would be an unintentional creation of doubt.
Keep in mind that i had this thought a long time ago. and i have sense then, changed my view, and i simply respect god as existing beyond religions, or any form or origin withen human comprehention.
Stand back, ill take care of this
Well that is a quite a bright insight. It somewhat explains the paradox of God being perfect yet creating a highly imperfect world.
Their is no purpose, their is no god
their is no spoon.
but on a serious note I think as far as why evil and pain exists, I believe to balance out the way we live our lives. Sure the world would be better without wars and violence, but from a universal aspect of balance, its just a necessary thing we have to live with as far as any diety might be concerned.
Just as you need predators to hunt prey, I think you need violence to destroy love.
I don't think it makes sense either, but thats what I believe :P
Well that is a quite a bright insight. It somewhat explains the paradox of God being perfect yet creating a highly imperfect world.
If I were to ask the average person does cold exist? His or Her answer would likely be yes. However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist. Darkness is the absence of light. Similarly, evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"
Sorry, I have to comment. That type of thinking is purely philosophical. Cold does exist. Evil does exist. You're right in saying that cold is the absence of heat but it is still COLD. Evil also is not the absence of good. They are two seperate paths instead of one being real while the other being absent. Murder is NOT the absence of justice. Instead, justice is always present and it waits patiently to prevail..........
Blessings,
MMO migrant.
Sorry, I have to comment. That type of thinking is purely philosophical. Cold does exist. Evil does exist. You're right in saying that cold is the absence of heat but it is still COLD. Evil also is not the absence of good. They are two seperate paths instead of one being real while the other being absent. Murder is NOT the absence of justice. Instead, justice is always present and it waits patiently to prevail..........
Blessings,
Look at the example of Job in Job chapters 1-2. Satan wanted to destroy Job, and God allowed Satan to do everything but kill Job. God allowed this to happen to prove to Satan that Job was righteous because he loved God, not because God had blessed him so richly. God is sovereign and ultimately in control of everything that happens. Satan cannot do anything that God does not allow. God did not create evil, but He allows evil..
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"
I understand that, and that didn't prove your point.
Blessings,
MMO migrant.
In time you will understand .I am not aganist you, i'm for you.
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"
someone mentioned "Perfection", and i think this is also an interesting topic. If you try and imagine perfection,you first few steps ususaly dont involve adding anything, it most likely involves removing things,major things, such as pain and fear, and also lesser things like boredom and lonlynesss. I know that there are things which could be added in persuit of perfection, but if you realy think about it, by the time you truely achieved perfection,theres a good chance you would not be aware of it, because it could very well be beyond "existance". My point is that perfection could very well be the abbsence of everything, i know that sounds negative, but its logical. If u cant think or feel, how can you determine wether there is anything better or worse?
There once was a show with two Wise men, Beavis and Butt-head. During one of there deep debates about the consistancy of "coolness", Butt-Head says 'If everything was cool, how would you know what suck's?"
Stand back, ill take care of this
Well that is what many saints basically refer to as heaven. It's having all the duality removed , there's no Good or evil in heaven , like how life is a movie with good and evil and we're all actors/acting out in this cosmic drama of God but once it's over it's like the relaxation of being offset , not as many things happening , it's much more peaceful.
Chrono, please check your inbox.
Also, from the Christian perspective, perfection is not the absence of things - perfection is a Person and His name is Jesus. Heaven is not a buddhist nirvana - it is a real place that is coming to the earth and Jesus will reign in all righteousness and humility while the presence and the glory of God is not restrained; freely to be expressed and experienced. There is much to say, but that is a short snippet!
Blessings,
MMO migrant.
Sorry, I have to comment. That type of thinking is purely philosophical. Cold does exist. Evil does exist. You're right in saying that cold is the absence of heat but it is still COLD. Evil also is not the absence of good. They are two seperate paths instead of one being real while the other being absent. Murder is NOT the absence of justice. Instead, justice is always present and it waits patiently to prevail..........
Blessings,
Look at the example of Job in Job chapters 1-2. Satan wanted to destroy Job, and God allowed Satan to do everything but kill Job. God allowed this to happen to prove to Satan that Job was righteous because he loved God, not because God had blessed him so richly. God is sovereign and ultimately in control of everything that happens. Satan cannot do anything that God does not allow. God did not create evil, but He allows evil..
Now that is the rub, God, Holy,seperate from Evil, allowing the Devil to come into his presence,making bets with the Devil.
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
007: And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
008: And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
009: Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
010: Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
011: But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
012: And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Not only that but actually directing the Devils attention towards Job. And it doesn't stop there, the Devil takes his offspring his wealth and finally his health. From the most righteous man upon the Earth. Seems a might strange.
Now lets take a look at Jonah,God commanded him to go to Nineveh, Jonah did not want too so took a ship to Tarshish, which is soon engulfed by a storm, taking lots the crew soon discovers Jonah to be the cause and Jonah confirms this. And states if thrown overboard the storm will abate, being unable to land the ship the crew throws Jonah overboard and the storm abates. Jonah is swallowed by the fish and for three days he languishes praying for forgiveness. God finally has the fish spit him out and commands Jonah again to go to Nineveh, he does, the people of Nineveh repent and Jonah leaves embittered.
So how does the free will of man fit into this? Jonah would have been just as pleased to see Nineveh whiped out. It would appear if God has ordained something man's freewill is of no avail.
A strange and mysterious God he is. And not one to be taken lightly for certain. Again for the record:
" I create the light and i create the darkness, i create the good and evil,i the Lord do all these things,and wherefore have i created evil? That men should fear before me."
Now then we are commanded to love God, but also to fear him, a very difficult contridiction, as men generally hate what they fear not love it.
In the end it all has to come down to faith, the belief that God is good,just,and loving. And he has a purpose unphantomable to us the created. Afterall how can the clay say to the maker "what makest thou"
The faith to believe God has created us, put us through the fire, and empowered us to become Sons of God set to inherit all things from God.
EDIT: Found it - Isaiah 45:7 (although it is apparent you paraphrased it). It would be good to know that 'evil' is not 'evil' in our western minds, as the KJ version is the only version to render the word 'evil'. It speaks of sorrow, calamity and disaster - not evil.
Is. 31:2; 47:11; Amos 3:6 all give references to the Hebrew word that was used here. It context, it means calamity - not evil.
Blessings,
MMO migrant.
The thing is thought is that the earth has to be for entertainment purposes. God probaly could've created man more purer , such as the way his organs function and the states of his mood so that he would not get angry/violent or hatred in his heart. If God is perfect than he can do anything. We see how we are starting to create worlds such as mmorpgs and we have very bright , beautiful and colourful ones that are more non-violent and very dark , disturbing ones and what content and everything that happens in these worlds are completely up the the creator to decide just as though when God created the earth he created emotions in man such as anger/hatred/rage/violence etc he could've created a world with those qualities as an impossiblity but instead created them in this cosmic drama for entertainment purposes.
Think of it this way , would you watch a movie or play a video game that's billions of hours long without any violence or any negative emotions or atleast some contrast of darkness , most people probaly wouldn't.