A bit late to change this. Veteran players have already taken advantage of that. Only reason to do that is to get more subcribtion money, on the other hand, i think it's normal that a game you are supposed to pay monthly for, should NOT continue to train your character if your not paying.
Older veteran players will most likely see this as a good thing, most newer players are going to hate it. Frankly the skill system in this game does nothing more than stifle desire to keep playing. The only counter-balance to that in my opinion was the ability to take a break from the game and let obscenely long training times lapse while I'm not forking over 15 bucks a month on multiple accounts. I don't care how it shakes out, CCP just lost my $45 in subscription fees because I'm not re-activating those accounts so I can sit and stare at space, or trying grinding Isk. No thanks, game wasn't great before, it's worse now.
Originally posted by Airwren Older veteran players will most likely see this as a good thing, most newer players are going to hate it.
Wrong! Veterans (the ones who spend time in 0.0) with multiple accounts also ghost train and it's obvious from the complaints it's veterans with alts who are pissed.
1. It has been referred to as a feature of the game. See any of the twenty posts in the first pages of the Dev Blog discussion thread for a link to the Player Guide. Obviously, in addition to being a contributing factor to people subscribing to the game (the cancellation of which will obviously result in canceled accounts and possible loss of future customers), this also spells out that CCP is being intentionally deceitful as to their reasons for terminating "Ghost Training." 2. Because a player works in Eve to make money, not to gain skill points, there is no undue advantage provided to inactive accounts. In Eve, skill points are acquired by clicking a button, then coming back in a few days to click another button and train a different skill. There is no hard work involved. Instead, work in Eve is used to acquire ISK, which can even be used to bypass the timesink that is skill training by purchasing more advanced characters. A good metaphor is that of two players, Todd and Frank. Todd lets his account lapse training Carrier V, while Frank keeps it subscribed while training the same skill. However, over the course of a month, Frank works hard to earn Isk. At the end of the month, both characters can fly a carrier, but Frank, having worked hard and paid his subscription, actually has the carrier. 3. CCP gains more money from the subscriptions of multiple sporadically subscribed "Ghost Training" accounts than a single perpetually subscribed account. This one is simple math: let's return to Todd and Frank. Todd runs two accounts over a year, both of which are lapsed and "Ghost Training" for three months out of the year, while Frank runs a single account subscribed for the entire year. Assuming they both pay in one month intervals of 14.99 per month: Todd's Accounts: 179.40 * 0.75 * 2 = 269.10
Frank's Account: 179.40 * 1.00 * 1 = 179.40 Therefore, in addition to not being played for three months out of the year (thus reducing strain on CCP's servers, however little), Todd's two "Ghost Training" accounts bring in more money than Frank's single perma-subscribed account. There are other reasons, but most of them are on a case-by-case basis, and I figure three massively glaring flaws should be enough to warrant a change of plans.
That last thing is what is interesting. Also in mind that what the original poster of this, the conclusion made, is something that CCP also can come up with. I mean noone is stupider then oneself, really they are not. Why are they doing this.
Point 3 is the most obvious one. They are not doing it for the money.
Point 1 and 2 maybe could be developed further.
But... Why is this, CCP does these things over and over again. They are repeating themself. It is almost as one could think that they are doing it for the publicity. And a 3rd time around with the same thing done the last 2 years wouldn't be "original" anymore.
This is so flawed; it's amazing anyone would put so much effort into such a clearly flawed argument.
Point # 2 isn't much better...If there isn’t an advantage then what are we talking about? The advantage here is that it opens up a great deal of variability and options for non-traditional game play. It allows multiple game characteristics to come together to produce mechanics that are (hopefully) unique to the EVE universe. Clearly, CCP has decided that the variability is not worth the trouble. This is usually the case.
Point # 3 is kinda like a shot in the dark. The only way you can know this is by analyzing account data. In short, It comes down to who continues too pay over the long term. If most ghost trainers leave the game and most traditional players continue to pay.....Well there you go (no pun intended). Given the number crunching nature of EVE, It is highly unlikely CCP has come down on the wrong side of this equation...Seriously
Release a short news bit regarding widespread and significant change that would occur in 48 hours.
- Buried with other news minutes later.
- 50 pages of posting follow, discussing the legitimacy of this change as per the reasons given.
- Locked 50 pages of posts because a blog was posted, that repeats the same message.
- Dev blog mentions the 'business side' of this move, which the news post omitted.
- 70 pages of new postings follow.
- Thread disappears from Information Portal. Players find it and continue posting.
- Player guide gets edited to remove controversial remarks.
Without discussing the removal of "ghost training" specifically, what we have here is an attempt to pull a fast one on the players. It is easily the biggest attempted ninja nerf in the history of this game. Your customers deserve:
- More than two days of warning, so they can find out about the changes and plan accordingly
- More visible warning, like the login screen MOTD
- More transparency and honesty about the reasons by discussing all the reasons
Hard decisions are always hard, but how you handle them determines if you gain or lose respect. The player is going to feel screwed by changes that affect them poorly, and this is the equivalent of adding insult to injury.
A lot of people are willing to defend this company regardless of what they do (4S name change, t20 scandal), but this community was built on a common respect for the makers of this game even if they didn't always agree. That was eons ago.
You might not see a dip in subscriber counts, but you'll see an increase in player churn that requires more marketing money to support. You not only lose massive amounts of free word of mouth advertising, but scare away players with the amount of ex-EVE types that leave disgruntled at something you did.
Just wanted to quote an excellent post from official forums.
You guys make me sick, you're all getting upset that you have to actually pay CCP for skill training? Eve isn't a F2p game get over it. First you guys complain about ambulation, then complain blizzard is putting to much focus on pve, then compain about certificates cause you don't want new players to have it easier, now you bitch cause you can't train your ten accounts for free. its pathetic.
This post was pure nonsense. No one in the EVE forums barely even mentions WoW. go back to general with that drama please
HAHAHA dude I typed this at work my bad!. I ment CCP not blizzard I was going back and forth between this and a Anti-wow post. sorry about that
Half the community won't leave over this. Heck the number of players with multiple accounts only accounts for 15% of the player population.
But one of the reason people didn't mind having on average 3 accounts was the incentives from ghosting.
CCP removed that incentive and people will cancel some of their alts. If the average is reduced from 3 to 2 CCP lost atleast 1.8 million dollars for the year.
This number could vary wildly because the number of people who ghost is unclear especially since it isn't just people who have multiple alts who ghosted. I had only one account and ghosted and now I won't resub anymore because I was really playing the "waiting till I get good skills" waiting game more than anything else. Also some people who ghost may actually bite the bullet and play their accounts full time but I seriously don't believe the number of people who will put up with the change and pay all the time will overcome the number of people who quit or more importantly cancel their alts.
I don't see the problem with this; We were used to it as it was convenient, but not logical. Would you level up in WOW while your account is inactive? ofcourse not. But people rather not use logic and reasoning if that interferes with wanting/having more.
you do realize they did this once before, and reinstated it BECAUSE it's part of the eve game (and all the players consider it part of the game for all these YEARS).
right?
of course you don't. how silly of me.
sort of like the genius minds at ccp that have decided to just sell one timecard and to make it MORE expensive than paying for one month at a time, much less for paying for multiple months.
yeah, brilliant ideas coming one after the next from ccp, lemme tellya.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
At least give us a skill queue. It's give and take lol. Not take away take away take away take away
A skill queue. Even me that only play this game 1-2 month/year think that is a bad idea.
really? so if i want to train a 3 hour skill, i can't put it training and have a skill queued... while i'm at work?
yeah, single timecard which is more expensive than paying the highest (single month) cc method and AGAIN getting rid of the "ghost" training... ccp really doesn't want to keep anyone.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Given the number crunching nature of EVE, It is highly unlikely CCP has come down on the wrong side of this equation...Seriously
Which is pretty much the bottom line of what I am saying. And why I underlined "There are other reasons, but most of them are on a case-by-case basis, and I figure three massively glaring flaws should be enough to warrant a change of plans.".
Regardless if the original poster is wrong or not. But taken his word for it that he is right, the motivation for him to post it must be that he is(think he is) right. And if so there is no reason to believe that CCP also knows and sees what he see. If now there are so massive glaring flaws in it.
This change only affects people who grow characters to sell. At least in any meaningful way. Despite what may have been said now and in the past I really don't see what the uproar is about.
actually, this affects all of us that have multiple accounts and have had multiple accounts for a couple of years+.
someone REALLY didn't do the math on this one. but it's ok. they'll figure it out VERY shortly (by the end of the year). i, for one, sure as hell am not going to grind to pay for overpriced timecards for several accounts.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Worst decision ever,did someone from blizzard or EA infiltrate CCP and made this horrible suggestion,as much as I love EVE,I think that it's realy a game killer.People keep returning to play but sometimes they dont have time to play and they rather set a long skill on and go inactive for 2-3 months soo when they decide to return they will have access to that ship they wanted.
And on top of that we have the speed nerf or have to screw over a ton of players and minmatar pilots,damn caldari whiners,soon everyone will be flying either a caracal,a raven or a cerberus.
wow, not only do the announce this... they lock the discussion thread? idiotic idea followed by chickenshit locking of the announcement thread.... BRILLIANT.
yeah, i guess they didn't want 30,000 "wtf" posts.
seriously, wtf is wrong with ccp lately?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by mutantmagnet Originally posted by Airwren Older veteran players will most likely see this as a good thing, most newer players are going to hate it.
Wrong! Veterans (the ones who spend time in 0.0) with multiple accounts also ghost train and it's obvious from the complaints it's veterans with alts who are pissed.
L.O.F.L.
n00b most of old 00 alliance have capital alts trained in all this years just pay and move capital alt on main account n00bs will have to pay all the time for capital train do u ganna pay 60 days for a lvl ?
Comments
lol that skill training system is a scam anyway.
Look into the "learning skills" for example....skills so you can research skills faster.
See this game for what it really is people.
Hey! You almost made me quit gaming completely.
In the end of your thougth one have to ask. Why do we play these games?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
A bit late to change this. Veteran players have already taken advantage of that. Only reason to do that is to get more subcribtion money, on the other hand, i think it's normal that a game you are supposed to pay monthly for, should NOT continue to train your character if your not paying.
At least give us a skill queue. It's give and take lol. Not take away take away take away take away
A skill queue. Even me that only play this game 1-2 month/year think that is a bad idea.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Older veteran players will most likely see this as a good thing, most newer players are going to hate it. Frankly the skill system in this game does nothing more than stifle desire to keep playing. The only counter-balance to that in my opinion was the ability to take a break from the game and let obscenely long training times lapse while I'm not forking over 15 bucks a month on multiple accounts. I don't care how it shakes out, CCP just lost my $45 in subscription fees because I'm not re-activating those accounts so I can sit and stare at space, or trying grinding Isk. No thanks, game wasn't great before, it's worse now.
Wrong! Veterans (the ones who spend time in 0.0) with multiple accounts also ghost train and it's obvious from the complaints it's veterans with alts who are pissed.
L.O.F.L.
CCP better
start editing
more than
their player guide.
That last thing is what is interesting. Also in mind that what the original poster of this, the conclusion made, is something that CCP also can come up with. I mean noone is stupider then oneself, really they are not. Why are they doing this.
Point 3 is the most obvious one. They are not doing it for the money.
Point 1 and 2 maybe could be developed further.
But... Why is this, CCP does these things over and over again. They are repeating themself. It is almost as one could think that they are doing it for the publicity. And a 3rd time around with the same thing done the last 2 years wouldn't be "original" anymore.
This is so flawed; it's amazing anyone would put so much effort into such a clearly flawed argument.
Point #1 is completely meaningless...nuf said
Point # 2 isn't much better...If there isn’t an advantage then what are we talking about? The advantage here is that it opens up a great deal of variability and options for non-traditional game play. It allows multiple game characteristics to come together to produce mechanics that are (hopefully) unique to the EVE universe. Clearly, CCP has decided that the variability is not worth the trouble. This is usually the case.
Point # 3 is kinda like a shot in the dark. The only way you can know this is by analyzing account data. In short, It comes down to who continues too pay over the long term. If most ghost trainers leave the game and most traditional players continue to pay.....Well there you go (no pun intended). Given the number crunching nature of EVE, It is highly unlikely CCP has come down on the wrong side of this equation...Seriously
By the way, if you want to emoragequit, do it now. Account page is up again.
Please give me your stuff first, though. Kthx.
Just wanted to quote an excellent post from official forums.
Original thread
Oh great, just one more reason to quit(not come back)...
PS: I will blow my stuff up myself so no stuff for you, okthxbye.
This post was pure nonsense. No one in the EVE forums barely even mentions WoW. go back to general with that drama please
HAHAHA dude I typed this at work my bad!. I ment CCP not blizzard I was going back and forth between this and a Anti-wow post. sorry about that
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
seems CCP pissed of a shit ton of players that have multiple account look for this announcment to be retracted.
personally it doesn't effect me but if half the god damn community is going to leave over not training for free they should just leave it alone.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Half the community won't leave over this. Heck the number of players with multiple accounts only accounts for 15% of the player population.
But one of the reason people didn't mind having on average 3 accounts was the incentives from ghosting.
CCP removed that incentive and people will cancel some of their alts. If the average is reduced from 3 to 2 CCP lost atleast 1.8 million dollars for the year.
This number could vary wildly because the number of people who ghost is unclear especially since it isn't just people who have multiple alts who ghosted. I had only one account and ghosted and now I won't resub anymore because I was really playing the "waiting till I get good skills" waiting game more than anything else.
Also some people who ghost may actually bite the bullet and play their accounts full time but I seriously don't believe the number of people who will put up with the change and pay all the time will overcome the number of people who quit or more importantly cancel their alts.
Well lets hope Certificates, the December expansion and the walk on stations expansion brings in enough new players to balance everything out.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
you do realize they did this once before, and reinstated it BECAUSE it's part of the eve game (and all the players consider it part of the game for all these YEARS).
right?
of course you don't. how silly of me.
sort of like the genius minds at ccp that have decided to just sell one timecard and to make it MORE expensive than paying for one month at a time, much less for paying for multiple months.
yeah, brilliant ideas coming one after the next from ccp, lemme tellya.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
A skill queue. Even me that only play this game 1-2 month/year think that is a bad idea.
really? so if i want to train a 3 hour skill, i can't put it training and have a skill queued... while i'm at work?
yeah, single timecard which is more expensive than paying the highest (single month) cc method and AGAIN getting rid of the "ghost" training... ccp really doesn't want to keep anyone.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Which is pretty much the bottom line of what I am saying. And why I underlined "There are other reasons, but most of them are on a case-by-case basis, and I figure three massively glaring flaws should be enough to warrant a change of plans.".
Regardless if the original poster is wrong or not. But taken his word for it that he is right, the motivation for him to post it must be that he is(think he is) right. And if so there is no reason to believe that CCP also knows and sees what he see. If now there are so massive glaring flaws in it.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
actually, this affects all of us that have multiple accounts and have had multiple accounts for a couple of years+.
someone REALLY didn't do the math on this one. but it's ok. they'll figure it out VERY shortly (by the end of the year). i, for one, sure as hell am not going to grind to pay for overpriced timecards for several accounts.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
most people wont come back to Eve. Simple as that.
CCP shooting themselves in this hehe
Worst decision ever,did someone from blizzard or EA infiltrate CCP and made this horrible suggestion,as much as I love EVE,I think that it's realy a game killer.People keep returning to play but sometimes they dont have time to play and they rather set a long skill on and go inactive for 2-3 months soo when they decide to return they will have access to that ship they wanted.
And on top of that we have the speed nerf or have to screw over a ton of players and minmatar pilots,damn caldari whiners,soon everyone will be flying either a caracal,a raven or a cerberus.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=896003
wow, not only do the announce this... they lock the discussion thread? idiotic idea followed by chickenshit locking of the announcement thread.... BRILLIANT.
yeah, i guess they didn't want 30,000 "wtf" posts.
seriously, wtf is wrong with ccp lately?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
HAHA @ all the whiners in this thread.
This is a good choice by CCP
Too many peeps abuse the system, perhaps next CCP will concentrate on the amount of isk farmers ingame!
How do you tell someone kindly to learn2read?
Wrong! Veterans (the ones who spend time in 0.0) with multiple accounts also ghost train and it's obvious from the complaints it's veterans with alts who are pissed.
L.O.F.L.
n00b most of old 00 alliance have capital alts trained in all this years just pay and move capital alt on main account
n00bs will have to pay all the time for capital train do u ganna pay 60 days for a lvl ?
BestSigEver :P
