Interesting reading, thank you for the translation. But I find it curious that a gaming web site that was given the privilige to play test one of the most secret games in development didn't bother to discuss when the developers planned to conduct the open beta and go live, especially since its supposed to go live in less than a month and a half. Those would have been my first questions, and yet, somehow they didn't even bother to address them. In fact, this review reads more like a paid advertisement, since they don't bother to bring up anything really negative, and when they do (like the complexity of the interface) they quickly dispell it saying, don't worry, you'll figure it out quickly. No comments about lag, latency, how a 200 vs 200 battle went, in fact, looking at their gear it looks like they got to create a character and mess around a bit in the starter areas for the most part, and didn't really see or experience the more advance features. I remain skeptical at this point, and will remain so until I see the game reviewed by more mainstream sources that have some sort of credibility. Edit, quite honestly, I could have a better review than this, and that's not what I do for a living.
You would have thought they would have talked abit about DF's major selling points, ie major battles, city building, PvP, full loot drops, maybe even alittle bit about crafting. For a review it does seem pretty lean, and doesn't IMO address the major points of interest. Graphics of DF, sound/music and PvE have never been my main concerns for DF yet unless i missed alot thats the only things their review covered.
Not sure how a couple of screen shots and a review by ??? proves that it isn't vaporware.And the review wasn't critical at all so I doubt it's validity. Ifit is ever released (or if it's even real) it could still fail horribly. Either way there's really no point in getting worked up over it until it's out if it ever comes out.
What are u stuck on 2005?? Do you even know what vaporware is or you so eager to cry VAPOR that u just dont care??
I think it's pretty logical to say the game exists... thats not really what is being questioned her ebut the quality of the product
New software that has been announced or marketed but has not been produced.
Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product. The term implies unwarranted optimism, an as yet unannounced abandonment of a project, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility. However, most vaporware would not be considered a hoax since the makers have a genuine intention to create their product, even if it ultimately never materializes. Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware.
Anticompetitive practices
The marketing angle to "releasing" vaporware can be two-fold. On one hand the intention is to create the demand for a feature or product which did not previously exist in the market. On the other, the intent is also to judge the public reaction from the "release" and prepare a concrete marketing plan. For example, if a virtualization software's vaporware causes ripples in Slashdot but not in industry journals, the executives responsible may feel the need to reposition the product, or even to go back to the drawing board and redesign and reach the target audience. In some cases, vaporware may be the result of a trial balloon which "doesn't fly". Subsequently the project is quietly cancelled, sometimes before any actual development work is done.
In other cases, vaporware may be announced by companies in order to damage the development or marketability of more real products by competitors, sometimes in combination with a campaign of fear, uncertainty and doubt; if customers believe the hype, they may put off purchasing the real product to wait for its vaporous rival to mature.
Another possible (and, in most jurisdictions, illegal) reason for announcing vaporware is to cause an uptick in the stock prices of a publicly traded company. This can then be used to gain more investment capital or allow officers of the company to sell shares on the "hype" of the software that may or may not ever be completed. (see pump and dump).
Allegations of anticompetitive vaporware, as well as concerns within the software industry prompted David Dranove (of Northwestern University) and Neil Gandal (of Tel Aviv University, University of California, Berkeley) to conduct an empirical study designed to measure the effect of the DIVX preannouncement on the DVD market. This study suggests that the DIVX preannouncement slowed the adoption of DVD technology. According to Dranove and Gandal, the study suggests that the "general antitrust concern about vaporware seems justified."[1]
In certain cases, as with Donkey Kong Racing, a title may no longer be able to be created due to a change in ownership rights. In that case, Rareware was purchased by Microsoft, essentially preventing it from producing any more console games in the Donkey Kong franchise.
Overambitious hype
Many companies announce vaporware in order to prove that their R&D departments are still full of new ideas. One subtle variation of this strategy is to remove a planned feature of a forthcoming product.
Sometimes vaporware is the result of over-optimism, and may actually materialize after a long waiting time (sometimes years). One example of this was the long-delayed Apple Macintosh word processor FullWrite Professional, announced by Ann Arbor Softworks in January 1987 for delivery that April, and actually delivered in late 1988.
In the United Kingdom, Sir Clive Sinclair's Sinclair Research Ltd was quite notorious for its tardy product delivery cycle; various flat-screen displays, miniature televisions, the Sinclair QL business computer and Sinclair C5 electric car, the advanced Loki and several other projects were either late, unfinished, or entirely fictitious.
Several years before CD-R was introduced, Tandy Corporation had promised a fully recordable CD format called Thor-CD,[2] but after being pushed back for several years, it was finally shelved due to technical limitations, and then became known as "Vapordisc".
Sometimes the delays or eventual shelving of a software product is caused by a corporate merger or internal strife within the company.
Peter Molyneux earned the dubious reputation of promoting games with lofty goals, such as Dungeon Keeper, Black & White, Fable, and The Movies, but often ended up having to remove copious amounts of features due to release date pressure or system limitations.
One of the most infamous pieces of vaporware is Duke Nukem Forever, which was originally scheduled for release in 1997, but is still under development.
Falls short of expectations
This category refers particularly to products that may not be inherently flawed or defective, but rather fail to fulfill the high expectations of the consumers who have been subjected to aggressive marketing campaigns and constant hype from either the company itself or the media who reported about it in the period leading to release. Delays on such products have been known to inflate to months and even years, creating often unrealistic expectations of the final version once it eventually reaches store shelves.
The biggest example of this is the computer game Daikatana, which was announced in 1997 but did not ship until 2000. Many who had waited felt the gameplay was disappointing. Ultima IX was released to savage reviews in 1999, due to numerous bugs, unbalanced gameplay and high system requirements.
Obsolete on delivery
In other cases, vaporware never materializes because some other product fills its niche in the meantime, rendering it redundant or unmarketable.
One example is Project Xanadu, a hypertext project started in 1960 whose intended role has been mostly filled by the World Wide Web.
The Spartan was possibly the first, classic example of vaporware in hardware. It was an Apple II emulator for the Commodore 64 that attached to the back of the computer and added a full complement of Apple II expansion slots and I/O ports. At the time of its announcement, the Apple II had the largest software library of any home computer, while the Commodore 64 was a relative newcomer. A C64/Spartan combination would have had a price advantage over the Apple II, in addition to its C64 capability. By the time of the product's release, however, over two years later, the 64 had matured into a wildly successful platform in its own right, and few of its users cared about Apple compatibility.[3]
Another is Silicon Film, a proposed digital sensor cartridge for film cameras that would allow older cameras to take digital photographs yet require no modification. Announced in late 1998, Silicon Film was to work just like a roll of 35mm film, with a 1.3 megapixel sensor behind the lens and a battery and storage unit fitting in the film holder in the camera. The product, which never materialized, became increasingly obsolete due to improvements in digital camera technology and affordability. The original concept for Silicon Film evaporated in 2001 when the parent company filed for bankruptcy. [4] A year later, a new Silicon Film product was announced that would replace the back of film cameras with a 10-megapixel sensor and LCD display; this product also has yet to materialize. [5]
Lack of focus
By trying to do everything within a single product, the end result may be one that fails to do anything properly at all. By forgetting the initial purpose of a new software and trying to add more and more features, each individual feature gets less production resources invested.
An added risk to this approach is increased software instability, as rapidly growing software can generate increased amounts of unforeseen bugs, glitches, security holes and other problems that can sometimes go unnoticed for weeks and months. These bugs may indeed never get fixed at all, the patches required to address the issues themselves becoming new vaporware items.
Microsoft's Longhorn OS was first discussed in 2001 as a minor update to Windows XP, and intended to be released in 2004, but multiple successive delays and changes in strategy led some[weasel words] to call it "Longwait".[citation needed] Longhorn garnered third place in Wired's Vaporware Awards in 2004 and 2005. Wired quoted a reader as saying, "If Microsoft keeps on pushing back the dates for Longhorn and removing features from it, they might as well just promise to bundle Duke Nukem Forever with the OS."[6] The Longhorn project was eventually named Windows Vista. Microsoft released the OS to businesses at the end of November 2006, while releasing it to home users was delayed until January 30, 2007.
According to this Review Darkfall is a game that has A character creator
A combat system
Some quests
Some goblins to kill
A clunky frustrating UI At least we know exactly what we will be getting now, looks like the Official FAQ really was a wish list after all.
If thats all you can read from the review...and the beta quotes...then i suggest you try to reread them without your tinted glasses of skepticism on.
Oh and unless im misreading your quote...DF beta seems to be going on quite well im not hearing any whimpers!
My quote, though with every passing day seems less likely, at least is still a possibility.
So let me guess your gonna keep your quote till Dec 31 just to keep up what even you seem it admit is somewhat unrealistic hype?
Until Aventurine changes their official target of a release date yep. Dont want to spread false info....there are already enough people in this forum that do that
Aeroangel, Copy/pasting some long thing doesnt change the fact that you are wrong and are trolling. Basically no one respects you because you still try to state that there is a chance that this game is REAL. Its really getting sad.
It really wouldn't hurt for you to try and read the definition of vaporware, and to read the advice I gave that person. Although I doubt you have the attention span for it judging by your elementary school grammar, and over sized signatures of which either have something from television, big boobs, or something a person such as yourself would find humorous. "Fanboyism" aside you are incredibly dull and should really do something about it.
-------------------------- Playing: FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS My Rig: GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
Until Aventurine changes their official target of a release date yep. Dont want to spread false info....there are already enough people in this forum that do that
Of course if they do change their schedule to end open beta by early December and their official company commitment to launch within the year Aventurine would be guilty of spreading false info.
I think you need a tinfoil hat to be honest. Well why shouldnt they go there and see for themself that the game exist first hand? And the quality of it. Cant it be fun to meet the developers and same time have some nice Greek food? Answer me that pls?
Perhaps its cheaper for most to just download the game rather then pay for a plane ticket just to meet some devs, and check out a game for a few hours? hell you can get nice greek food outside of Greece you know.
So if we assume all the other beta testers were allowed to download it why not the 2 italians? Or are you agruing all the beta testers are in Greece. Come on come up with a better arguement then Aventurine wanted to make sure the italians had greek food.
Until Aventurine changes their official target of a release date yep. Dont want to spread false info....there are already enough people in this forum that do that
Of course if they do change their schedule to end open beta by early December and their official company commitment to launch within the year Aventurine would be guilty of spreading false info.
Nope they would just be missing their target for release. As you guys have pointed out in the past to bash Tasos...he is very good at how he words his announcements. As he has to be because look at how the harpies attack the slightest phrases.
Aeroangel, Copy/pasting some long thing doesnt change the fact that you are wrong and are trolling. Basically no one respects you because you still try to state that there is a chance that this game is REAL. Its really getting sad.
It really wouldn't hurt for you to try and read the definition of vaporware, and to read the advice I gave that person. Although I doubt you have the attention span for it judging by your elementary school grammar, and over sized signatures of which either have something from television, big boobs, or something a person such as yourself would find humorous. "Fanboyism" aside you are incredibly dull and should really do something about it.
Keep dancing around the main point. We arent talking about vaporware no matter how much you try to change the topic....or at least im not.
You claim that the game may not be real....which is laughable and is proof you are a troll.
Sorry DF scares you. It will be ok though. Youll always have WoW...
Yes this must be true! because... It has ONLY been in development for 7 years!!!! EVERYONE KNOWS it takes ALOT longer to implement an proper mmo
right trolls?
Alrighty guess even though it doesn't have a NA publisher, and Open beta hasn't even started yet we'll see you in game in less then 6 weeks from now?
I'd guess the smaller the developement team. (aventurine being considered small) the longer Developement would take, not that it would mean the game is complete and ready because its been in developement 5 years (remember all the fans say it was completely scraped and redone from the ground up in 2003 so you can't claim 7 years of developement as well.)
I'm not in LOD but yes I've been following the game for a long time, like you?
Oh yes sorry I see your just registered on the LOD forums not a member, my mistake.
Yes I’ve been following the game since the 2001.
I marvel that you have kept the faith for so many years, I wish I could of done so.
Will you still be defending this if the game does not launch or at least start open beta this year?
I don't see why not (fuck this nested quoting system, jesus); it would depend on the circumstances. If they fail to launch for a good reason, like for example how they said in that post they have publisher delays (but dev is done on their side), then I don't see the problem. If they detect a major issue and determine they need more testing but we continue to see solid evidence the game is there like we do now, then I don't see the problem.
I'm not defending anyone based on faith - it's based on the evidence available which points overwhelmingly toward a good release, whether it's this year or next (if it gets delayed for legitimate reasons or whatever). There were times I doubted it was coming out, but that doesn't seem to be the case now.
There is no evidence to support the contrary position except "But it's taken so long and they were wrong in the past about their release date!" and wild, wild speculation about the little information they reveal. For example, the inference in this thread about how since some terrible review by some guys playing for a work day, in the same Beta that the players are playing in, didn't see sieging, that sieging isn't done or isn't in the game.
People can scream all they want about how "DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? THEY'VE MADE THESE PROMISES IN THE PAST AND DID NOT DELIVER!", but if you can't see that this time is fundamentally different, with their publisher, beta, outside reviews, good beta feedback from testers, contracts with infrastructure people, etc., and evaluate it once more cleanly based on these merits, then I don't think you're looking at the situation very objectively.
Edit: And to be clear, I don't give a rat's ass whether they meet the specific promises of "open beta by december" or "retail this year". I think they probably will, but if I'm wrong, it doesn't really matter. I've waited this long, if they are going to deliver a month or two late, who cares? This isn't a personal crusade (despite my incessant posts) and I will not be slighted or offended if they don't deliver yet, nor will I be righteously vindicated if they do. Why would I arbitrarily stop defending them (and commit to such a position at this time) if they didn't meet their 2008 deadline? That wouldn't make sense - of course, I would evaluate the situation when that happens.
Interesting reading, thank you for the translation. But I find it curious that a gaming web site that was given the privilige to play test one of the most secret games in development didn't bother to discuss when the developers planned to conduct the open beta and go live, especially since its supposed to go live in less than a month and a half. Those would have been my first questions, and yet, somehow they didn't even bother to address them. In fact, this review reads more like a paid advertisement, since they don't bother to bring up anything really negative, and when they do (like the complexity of the interface) they quickly dispell it saying, don't worry, you'll figure it out quickly. No comments about lag, latency, how a 200 vs 200 battle went, in fact, looking at their gear it looks like they got to create a character and mess around a bit in the starter areas for the most part, and didn't really see or experience the more advance features. I remain skeptical at this point, and will remain so until I see the game reviewed by more mainstream sources that have some sort of credibility. Edit, quite honestly, I could have a better review than this, and that's not what I do for a living.
They might have asked the questions you know. Did they get an answer?
Is there anything to be negative at? Ask yourself that first. I dont know neither do you. Why even raise the question? Kinda strange id say. You have their preview and thats the truth of today regarding Darkfall, might be something else when we tried the game out but so far it seems we got a winner in Darkfall.
Im not that worried about latency since it seems everything we read so far on Darkfall (old developer journals) was nothing but 100% the god honest truth. Tasos is even more my idol today when it seems he been the truthsayer all along. They said you get good latency on 200vs200 battles and if all they said was the truth before, why shouldnt this also be the truth? Have some faith, all developing companies isnt like Funcom
First off, I concede now that I didn't see the fact that it was a "preview" and I'm not going to quibble over words. That would explain why everything was so basic and simple. I will await a more in-depth report that I assume we'll see in the next week.
I will expect there to be some negative comments, all software (not just games) had defects and features that users find less than desireable and you will never convince me that there is nothing negative about DF, just can't happen.
Regarding faith, I have faith in God, my country and sometimes in my fellow man. But game developers, never.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So let me guess your gonna keep your quote till Dec 31 just to keep up what even you seem it admit is somewhat unrealistic hype?
Until Aventurine changes their official target of a release date yep. Dont want to spread false info....there are already enough people in this forum that do that
Yes from both fans and trolls as we have seen today. Gotta love the DF fan that post low rez screens of LoTRO and AOC vs DF's and stated the LoTRO, and AoC shots were actually high rez to try and prove that DF graphics are better then AoC/LoTRO's
Back to the main point though i do find it interesting you post info that even you don't really seem to believe. ie DF 2008. Personally i wouldn't post something I didn't believe in but thats just me. Feel free to check my post history. I have my doubts yes, but i have never said DF was gonna be crap, or that it was vaporware (at least that i recall feel free to prove me wrong)
Nope they would just be missing their target for release. As you guys have pointed out in the past to bash Tasos...he is very good at how he words his announcements. As he has to be because look at how the harpies attack the slightest phrases.
This is not just a target for release this is:
“an official company commitment and it’s not a guestimate.”
Remember this:
“So why don't we announce a date already? It's because there's no way we'll miss a release date and we're not going to just set a date as a goal, and either postpone or be forced to release something unfinished. We resolve to stick with our release date”
Or this:
“The announcement during ADW was that the open beta phase is scheduled to end early in December.”
Making statements and announcements like this is spreading false and misleading information if they do not happen, all MMO developers do this to some extent, but Aventurine expressly claimed they would not do it (again).
The only reasonable thing a supporter can assume currently by what Aventurine have said so far is that everything is still going to schedule, and open beta will start and finish by early December and the game will be ready for its 2008 launch.
Anyone doubting that this will happen is doubting the official claims and statements of Aventurine.
Which makes them a “vapour troll hater” aka a sceptic.
But dude, what is false and misleading about that if that is their intent? Suppose somebody bombs their office and they can't release. Are you going to say they were false and misleading? Suppose their publisher pulls out for some reason (say, they get spooked by the world economy and the raw % of MMOs that fail). Will you then say they were spreading false and misleading information? What if they legimately find some problem that needs to be fixed?
I'm not pre-apologizing for the devs here at all. I'm just saying that they're evidently sure it'll work out, but they could be wrong. The open beta thing is probably just for publicity anyway. After this long do you think they'd rely on open beta to test critical things?
Does this 'preview' change anything? No but in the eyes of those looking forward to the game AND have faith in the devs, it is more information on the obsession of their mmo lives. For the rest, so what?
The fanbois need to accept that this can't be used as 'proof' of anything (I find it hard to believe that no other mmo sites were interested in previewing the game). On the other hand the rabid anti-fanbois need to accept that this is a step in the right direction. For a game thats supposed to release this year, is it enough? Not by a fkin long shot, but at this stage short of actually playing the game themselves not many are going to accept anything this dev teams comes out with as proof.
This is the price they pay with their CHOICE of behavior to the mmo press and fans, it didn't have to be this way but its how they wanted it. Whether its right or wrong, good or bad is irrelevent, it's how it is and no amount of BS posts on this site will ever change that.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Tasos called this a review, the people who wrote it call it a review. This is what they showed them 1 month from launch, this is what they showed Asp and Yellow beard. This is Darkfall.
"You need to study its movements to understand where it’ll be an half a second later, and then target there so your blow can score efficiently. Ranged attack are more complex: on a low range they are completely useless, and in the long range you have to study the parabolic trajectory your arrows will follow, targeting more or less on the top of the target."
Ok.... i will believe it wasn't more a DEV explanation that an actually in game experience
"Low range = completly useless"... as far as i know, an Arrow kills in point blank range... so do the Xbow bolts....
Also, you will need ZERO lag to hit something effectively
Also, people should chill a little bit. Come on, it's only a game that will appear sooner or later
Very interesting to finally start to see information about the game. Unfortunately it's through the eyes of a forum moderator so it naturally will have a heavy dose of enthusiam/fanboyism. I'd like to see them allow some Gaming magazine reviewers a shot at the game.
Originally posted by Seggallion
every blow you score must be calibrated. If the target moves, you won’t hit it. You need to study its movements to understand where it’ll be an half a second later, and then target there so your blow can score efficiently.
Sounds great on paper but I wonder how Aventurine has worked out the little problem that gamers know as 'lag'? Particularly in large battles since the reviewer makes mention of an 'army' being effected by weather.
Maybe they really do have some incredible solution to this fundamental problem that has plagued online gaming since its invention. We'll see in a month.
Very interesting to finally start to see information about the game. Unfortunately it's through the eyes of a forum moderator so it naturally will have a heavy dose of enthusiam/fanboyism. I'd like to see them allow some Gaming magazine reviewers a shot at the game. Originally posted by Seggallion
every blow you score must be calibrated. If the target moves, you won’t hit it. You need to study its movements to understand where it’ll be an half a second later, and then target there so your blow can score efficiently.
Sounds great on paper but I wonder how Aventurine has worked out the little problem that gamers know as 'lag'? Particularly in large battles since the reviewer makes mention of an 'army' being effected by weather.
Maybe they really do have some incredible solution to this fundamental problem that has plagued online gaming since its invention. We'll see in a month.
Perhaps you could look to the beta feedback that expressly talks about lag, and says that it's very consistent and isn't a problem until you're very good at the game? And then consider that there will be US servers so if everyone plays on their local server they'd have ~100 ping time like all the Euros apparently have to the Euro server?
Very interesting to finally start to see information about the game. Unfortunately it's through the eyes of a forum moderator so it naturally will have a heavy dose of enthusiam/fanboyism. I'd like to see them allow some Gaming magazine reviewers a shot at the game. Originally posted by Seggallion
every blow you score must be calibrated. If the target moves, you won’t hit it. You need to study its movements to understand where it’ll be an half a second later, and then target there so your blow can score efficiently.
Sounds great on paper but I wonder how Aventurine has worked out the little problem that gamers know as 'lag'? Particularly in large battles since the reviewer makes mention of an 'army' being effected by weather.
Maybe they really do have some incredible solution to this fundamental problem that has plagued online gaming since its invention. We'll see in a month.
Perhaps you could look to the beta feedback that expressly talks about lag, and says that it's very consistent and isn't a problem until you're very good at the game? And then consider that there will be US servers so if everyone plays on their local server they'd have ~100 ping time like all the Euros apparently have to the Euro server?
And what about those of us who like to play with friends from America and live in Europe? And they might have talked about Lag...but how can they -HONESTLY- judge that, having played it on a LAN Network and not on any kind of real MMO Infrastructure?
Lag/Latency is still my biggest worry about Darkfall. I still can't see how they want to adress these issues, but I'm willing to let them surprise me. After all, i will get to test it for free, so I'm not particularly worried.
That, and the completeness of the features and the atmosphere in the community might be a big turnoff. MIGHT, will have to wait and see though.
Comments
You would have thought they would have talked abit about DF's major selling points, ie major battles, city building, PvP, full loot drops, maybe even alittle bit about crafting. For a review it does seem pretty lean, and doesn't IMO address the major points of interest. Graphics of DF, sound/music and PvE have never been my main concerns for DF yet unless i missed alot thats the only things their review covered.
What are u stuck on 2005?? Do you even know what vaporware is or you so eager to cry VAPOR that u just dont care??
I think it's pretty logical to say the game exists... thats not really what is being questioned her ebut the quality of the product
New software that has been announced or marketed but has not been produced.
- http://www.thefreedictionary.com/vaporware
Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product. The term implies unwarranted optimism, an as yet unannounced abandonment of a project, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility. However, most vaporware would not be considered a hoax since the makers have a genuine intention to create their product, even if it ultimately never materializes. Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware.
Anticompetitive practices
The marketing angle to "releasing" vaporware can be two-fold. On one hand the intention is to create the demand for a feature or product which did not previously exist in the market. On the other, the intent is also to judge the public reaction from the "release" and prepare a concrete marketing plan. For example, if a virtualization software's vaporware causes ripples in Slashdot but not in industry journals, the executives responsible may feel the need to reposition the product, or even to go back to the drawing board and redesign and reach the target audience. In some cases, vaporware may be the result of a trial balloon which "doesn't fly". Subsequently the project is quietly cancelled, sometimes before any actual development work is done.
In other cases, vaporware may be announced by companies in order to damage the development or marketability of more real products by competitors, sometimes in combination with a campaign of fear, uncertainty and doubt; if customers believe the hype, they may put off purchasing the real product to wait for its vaporous rival to mature.
Another possible (and, in most jurisdictions, illegal) reason for announcing vaporware is to cause an uptick in the stock prices of a publicly traded company. This can then be used to gain more investment capital or allow officers of the company to sell shares on the "hype" of the software that may or may not ever be completed. (see pump and dump).
Allegations of anticompetitive vaporware, as well as concerns within the software industry prompted David Dranove (of Northwestern University) and Neil Gandal (of Tel Aviv University, University of California, Berkeley) to conduct an empirical study designed to measure the effect of the DIVX preannouncement on the DVD market. This study suggests that the DIVX preannouncement slowed the adoption of DVD technology. According to Dranove and Gandal, the study suggests that the "general antitrust concern about vaporware seems justified."[1]
In certain cases, as with Donkey Kong Racing, a title may no longer be able to be created due to a change in ownership rights. In that case, Rareware was purchased by Microsoft, essentially preventing it from producing any more console games in the Donkey Kong franchise.
Overambitious hype
Many companies announce vaporware in order to prove that their R&D departments are still full of new ideas. One subtle variation of this strategy is to remove a planned feature of a forthcoming product.
Sometimes vaporware is the result of over-optimism, and may actually materialize after a long waiting time (sometimes years). One example of this was the long-delayed Apple Macintosh word processor FullWrite Professional, announced by Ann Arbor Softworks in January 1987 for delivery that April, and actually delivered in late 1988.
In the United Kingdom, Sir Clive Sinclair's Sinclair Research Ltd was quite notorious for its tardy product delivery cycle; various flat-screen displays, miniature televisions, the Sinclair QL business computer and Sinclair C5 electric car, the advanced Loki and several other projects were either late, unfinished, or entirely fictitious.
Several years before CD-R was introduced, Tandy Corporation had promised a fully recordable CD format called Thor-CD,[2] but after being pushed back for several years, it was finally shelved due to technical limitations, and then became known as "Vapordisc".
Sometimes the delays or eventual shelving of a software product is caused by a corporate merger or internal strife within the company.
Peter Molyneux earned the dubious reputation of promoting games with lofty goals, such as Dungeon Keeper, Black & White, Fable, and The Movies, but often ended up having to remove copious amounts of features due to release date pressure or system limitations.
One of the most infamous pieces of vaporware is Duke Nukem Forever, which was originally scheduled for release in 1997, but is still under development.
Falls short of expectations
This category refers particularly to products that may not be inherently flawed or defective, but rather fail to fulfill the high expectations of the consumers who have been subjected to aggressive marketing campaigns and constant hype from either the company itself or the media who reported about it in the period leading to release. Delays on such products have been known to inflate to months and even years, creating often unrealistic expectations of the final version once it eventually reaches store shelves.
The biggest example of this is the computer game Daikatana, which was announced in 1997 but did not ship until 2000. Many who had waited felt the gameplay was disappointing. Ultima IX was released to savage reviews in 1999, due to numerous bugs, unbalanced gameplay and high system requirements.
Obsolete on delivery
In other cases, vaporware never materializes because some other product fills its niche in the meantime, rendering it redundant or unmarketable.
One example is Project Xanadu, a hypertext project started in 1960 whose intended role has been mostly filled by the World Wide Web.
The Spartan was possibly the first, classic example of vaporware in hardware. It was an Apple II emulator for the Commodore 64 that attached to the back of the computer and added a full complement of Apple II expansion slots and I/O ports. At the time of its announcement, the Apple II had the largest software library of any home computer, while the Commodore 64 was a relative newcomer. A C64/Spartan combination would have had a price advantage over the Apple II, in addition to its C64 capability. By the time of the product's release, however, over two years later, the 64 had matured into a wildly successful platform in its own right, and few of its users cared about Apple compatibility.[3]
Another is Silicon Film, a proposed digital sensor cartridge for film cameras that would allow older cameras to take digital photographs yet require no modification. Announced in late 1998, Silicon Film was to work just like a roll of 35mm film, with a 1.3 megapixel sensor behind the lens and a battery and storage unit fitting in the film holder in the camera. The product, which never materialized, became increasingly obsolete due to improvements in digital camera technology and affordability. The original concept for Silicon Film evaporated in 2001 when the parent company filed for bankruptcy. [4] A year later, a new Silicon Film product was announced that would replace the back of film cameras with a 10-megapixel sensor and LCD display; this product also has yet to materialize. [5]
Lack of focus
By trying to do everything within a single product, the end result may be one that fails to do anything properly at all. By forgetting the initial purpose of a new software and trying to add more and more features, each individual feature gets less production resources invested.
An added risk to this approach is increased software instability, as rapidly growing software can generate increased amounts of unforeseen bugs, glitches, security holes and other problems that can sometimes go unnoticed for weeks and months. These bugs may indeed never get fixed at all, the patches required to address the issues themselves becoming new vaporware items.
Microsoft's Longhorn OS was first discussed in 2001 as a minor update to Windows XP, and intended to be released in 2004, but multiple successive delays and changes in strategy led some[weasel words] to call it "Longwait".[citation needed] Longhorn garnered third place in Wired's Vaporware Awards in 2004 and 2005. Wired quoted a reader as saying, "If Microsoft keeps on pushing back the dates for Longhorn and removing features from it, they might as well just promise to bundle Duke Nukem Forever with the OS."[6] The Longhorn project was eventually named Windows Vista. Microsoft released the OS to businesses at the end of November 2006, while releasing it to home users was delayed until January 30, 2007.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
Please educate yourself on the subject beore you quote me and start to respond.
Also might want to brush up on your English, definition of logic, and learn some more about where all this information on Darkfall is coming from.
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Playing:
FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
My Rig:
GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hollow_Men
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper
If thats all you can read from the review...and the beta quotes...then i suggest you try to reread them without your tinted glasses of skepticism on.
Oh and unless im misreading your quote...DF beta seems to be going on quite well
im not hearing any whimpers!
My quote, though with every passing day seems less likely, at least is still a possibility.
So let me guess your gonna keep your quote till Dec 31 just to keep up what even you seem it admit is somewhat unrealistic hype?
Aeroangel,
Copy/pasting some long thing doesnt change the fact that you are wrong and are trolling.
Basically no one respects you because you still try to state that there is a chance that this game is REAL.
Its really getting sad.
---sig---
Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6
If thats all you can read from the review...and the beta quotes...then i suggest you try to reread them without your tinted glasses of skepticism on.
Oh and unless im misreading your quote...DF beta seems to be going on quite well
im not hearing any whimpers!
My quote, though with every passing day seems less likely, at least is still a possibility.
So let me guess your gonna keep your quote till Dec 31 just to keep up what even you seem it admit is somewhat unrealistic hype?
Until Aventurine changes their official target of a release date yep. Dont want to spread false info....there are already enough people in this forum that do that
---sig---
Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6
It really wouldn't hurt for you to try and read the definition of vaporware, and to read the advice I gave that person. Although I doubt you have the attention span for it judging by your elementary school grammar, and over sized signatures of which either have something from television, big boobs, or something a person such as yourself would find humorous. "Fanboyism" aside you are incredibly dull and should really do something about it.
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Playing:
FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
My Rig:
GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
Of course if they do change their schedule to end open beta by early December and their official company commitment to launch within the year Aventurine would be guilty of spreading false info.
Perhaps its cheaper for most to just download the game rather then pay for a plane ticket just to meet some devs, and check out a game for a few hours? hell you can get nice greek food outside of Greece you know.
So if we assume all the other beta testers were allowed to download it why not the 2 italians? Or are you agruing all the beta testers are in Greece. Come on come up with a better arguement then Aventurine wanted to make sure the italians had greek food.
Of course if they do change their schedule to end open beta by early December and their official company commitment to launch within the year Aventurine would be guilty of spreading false info.
Nope they would just be missing their target for release. As you guys have pointed out in the past to bash Tasos...he is very good at how he words his announcements. As he has to be because look at how the harpies attack the slightest phrases.
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Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6
It really wouldn't hurt for you to try and read the definition of vaporware, and to read the advice I gave that person. Although I doubt you have the attention span for it judging by your elementary school grammar, and over sized signatures of which either have something from television, big boobs, or something a person such as yourself would find humorous. "Fanboyism" aside you are incredibly dull and should really do something about it.
Keep dancing around the main point. We arent talking about vaporware no matter how much you try to change the topic....or at least im not.
You claim that the game may not be real....which is laughable and is proof you are a troll.
Sorry DF scares you. It will be ok though. Youll always have WoW...
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Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6
Alrighty guess even though it doesn't have a NA publisher, and Open beta hasn't even started yet we'll see you in game in less then 6 weeks from now?
I'd guess the smaller the developement team. (aventurine being considered small) the longer Developement would take, not that it would mean the game is complete and ready because its been in developement 5 years (remember all the fans say it was completely scraped and redone from the ground up in 2003 so you can't claim 7 years of developement as well.)
Oh yes sorry I see your just registered on the LOD forums not a member, my mistake.
Yes I’ve been following the game since the 2001.
I marvel that you have kept the faith for so many years, I wish I could of done so.
Will you still be defending this if the game does not launch or at least start open beta this year?
I don't see why not (fuck this nested quoting system, jesus); it would depend on the circumstances. If they fail to launch for a good reason, like for example how they said in that post they have publisher delays (but dev is done on their side), then I don't see the problem. If they detect a major issue and determine they need more testing but we continue to see solid evidence the game is there like we do now, then I don't see the problem.
I'm not defending anyone based on faith - it's based on the evidence available which points overwhelmingly toward a good release, whether it's this year or next (if it gets delayed for legitimate reasons or whatever). There were times I doubted it was coming out, but that doesn't seem to be the case now.
There is no evidence to support the contrary position except "But it's taken so long and they were wrong in the past about their release date!" and wild, wild speculation about the little information they reveal. For example, the inference in this thread about how since some terrible review by some guys playing for a work day, in the same Beta that the players are playing in, didn't see sieging, that sieging isn't done or isn't in the game.
People can scream all they want about how "DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? THEY'VE MADE THESE PROMISES IN THE PAST AND DID NOT DELIVER!", but if you can't see that this time is fundamentally different, with their publisher, beta, outside reviews, good beta feedback from testers, contracts with infrastructure people, etc., and evaluate it once more cleanly based on these merits, then I don't think you're looking at the situation very objectively.
Edit: And to be clear, I don't give a rat's ass whether they meet the specific promises of "open beta by december" or "retail this year". I think they probably will, but if I'm wrong, it doesn't really matter. I've waited this long, if they are going to deliver a month or two late, who cares? This isn't a personal crusade (despite my incessant posts) and I will not be slighted or offended if they don't deliver yet, nor will I be righteously vindicated if they do. Why would I arbitrarily stop defending them (and commit to such a position at this time) if they didn't meet their 2008 deadline? That wouldn't make sense - of course, I would evaluate the situation when that happens.
...or not.
They might have asked the questions you know. Did they get an answer?
Is there anything to be negative at? Ask yourself that first. I dont know neither do you. Why even raise the question? Kinda strange id say. You have their preview and thats the truth of today regarding Darkfall, might be something else when we tried the game out but so far it seems we got a winner in Darkfall.
Im not that worried about latency since it seems everything we read so far on Darkfall (old developer journals) was nothing but 100% the god honest truth. Tasos is even more my idol today when it seems he been the truthsayer all along.
They said you get good latency on 200vs200 battles and if all they said was the truth before, why shouldnt this also be the truth? Have some faith, all developing companies isnt like Funcom
First off, I concede now that I didn't see the fact that it was a "preview" and I'm not going to quibble over words. That would explain why everything was so basic and simple. I will await a more in-depth report that I assume we'll see in the next week.
I will expect there to be some negative comments, all software (not just games) had defects and features that users find less than desireable and you will never convince me that there is nothing negative about DF, just can't happen.
Regarding faith, I have faith in God, my country and sometimes in my fellow man. But game developers, never.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Until Aventurine changes their official target of a release date yep. Dont want to spread false info....there are already enough people in this forum that do that
Yes from both fans and trolls as we have seen today. Gotta love the DF fan that post low rez screens of LoTRO and AOC vs DF's and stated the LoTRO, and AoC shots were actually high rez to try and prove that DF graphics are better then AoC/LoTRO's
Back to the main point though i do find it interesting you post info that even you don't really seem to believe. ie DF 2008. Personally i wouldn't post something I didn't believe in but thats just me. Feel free to check my post history. I have my doubts yes, but i have never said DF was gonna be crap, or that it was vaporware (at least that i recall feel free to prove me wrong)
This is not just a target for release this is:
“an official company commitment and it’s not a guestimate.”
Remember this:
“So why don't we announce a date already? It's because there's no way we'll miss a release date and we're not going to just set a date as a goal, and either postpone or be forced to release something unfinished. We resolve to stick with our release date”
Or this:
“The announcement during ADW was that the open beta phase is scheduled to end early in December.”
Making statements and announcements like this is spreading false and misleading information if they do not happen, all MMO developers do this to some extent, but Aventurine expressly claimed they would not do it (again).
The only reasonable thing a supporter can assume currently by what Aventurine have said so far is that everything is still going to schedule, and open beta will start and finish by early December and the game will be ready for its 2008 launch.
Anyone doubting that this will happen is doubting the official claims and statements of Aventurine.
Which makes them a “vapour troll hater” aka a sceptic.
But dude, what is false and misleading about that if that is their intent? Suppose somebody bombs their office and they can't release. Are you going to say they were false and misleading? Suppose their publisher pulls out for some reason (say, they get spooked by the world economy and the raw % of MMOs that fail). Will you then say they were spreading false and misleading information? What if they legimately find some problem that needs to be fixed?
I'm not pre-apologizing for the devs here at all. I'm just saying that they're evidently sure it'll work out, but they could be wrong. The open beta thing is probably just for publicity anyway. After this long do you think they'd rely on open beta to test critical things?
...or not.
Nice thanks for taking the time to produce this post
So many e-peen extensions in a single thread.
Does this 'preview' change anything? No but in the eyes of those looking forward to the game AND have faith in the devs, it is more information on the obsession of their mmo lives. For the rest, so what?
The fanbois need to accept that this can't be used as 'proof' of anything (I find it hard to believe that no other mmo sites were interested in previewing the game). On the other hand the rabid anti-fanbois need to accept that this is a step in the right direction. For a game thats supposed to release this year, is it enough? Not by a fkin long shot, but at this stage short of actually playing the game themselves not many are going to accept anything this dev teams comes out with as proof.
This is the price they pay with their CHOICE of behavior to the mmo press and fans, it didn't have to be this way but its how they wanted it. Whether its right or wrong, good or bad is irrelevent, it's how it is and no amount of BS posts on this site will ever change that.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Wolf,
You are missing the point. The trolls have been asking for exactly this as proof of beta going on. And here it is.
Trolls were implying that the beta quotes could have been faked and there is no beta going on right now.
FACT: This is proof that beta is going on.
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Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6
The people who wrote it call it a PREview
"You need to study its movements to understand where it’ll be an half a second later, and then target there so your blow can score efficiently. Ranged attack are more complex: on a low range they are completely useless, and in the long range you have to study the parabolic trajectory your arrows will follow, targeting more or less on the top of the target."
Ok.... i will believe it wasn't more a DEV explanation that an actually in game experience
"Low range = completly useless"... as far as i know, an Arrow kills in point blank range... so do the Xbow bolts....
Also, you will need ZERO lag to hit something effectively
Also, people should chill a little bit. Come on, it's only a game that will appear sooner or later
Very interesting to finally start to see information about the game. Unfortunately it's through the eyes of a forum moderator so it naturally will have a heavy dose of enthusiam/fanboyism. I'd like to see them allow some Gaming magazine reviewers a shot at the game.
Sounds great on paper but I wonder how Aventurine has worked out the little problem that gamers know as 'lag'? Particularly in large battles since the reviewer makes mention of an 'army' being effected by weather.
Maybe they really do have some incredible solution to this fundamental problem that has plagued online gaming since its invention. We'll see in a month.
Sounds great on paper but I wonder how Aventurine has worked out the little problem that gamers know as 'lag'? Particularly in large battles since the reviewer makes mention of an 'army' being effected by weather.
Maybe they really do have some incredible solution to this fundamental problem that has plagued online gaming since its invention. We'll see in a month.
Perhaps you could look to the beta feedback that expressly talks about lag, and says that it's very consistent and isn't a problem until you're very good at the game? And then consider that there will be US servers so if everyone plays on their local server they'd have ~100 ping time like all the Euros apparently have to the Euro server?
...or not.
Sounds great on paper but I wonder how Aventurine has worked out the little problem that gamers know as 'lag'? Particularly in large battles since the reviewer makes mention of an 'army' being effected by weather.
Maybe they really do have some incredible solution to this fundamental problem that has plagued online gaming since its invention. We'll see in a month.
Perhaps you could look to the beta feedback that expressly talks about lag, and says that it's very consistent and isn't a problem until you're very good at the game? And then consider that there will be US servers so if everyone plays on their local server they'd have ~100 ping time like all the Euros apparently have to the Euro server?
And what about those of us who like to play with friends from America and live in Europe? And they might have talked about Lag...but how can they -HONESTLY- judge that, having played it on a LAN Network and not on any kind of real MMO Infrastructure?
Lag/Latency is still my biggest worry about Darkfall. I still can't see how they want to adress these issues, but I'm willing to let them surprise me. After all, i will get to test it for free, so I'm not particularly worried.
That, and the completeness of the features and the atmosphere in the community might be a big turnoff. MIGHT, will have to wait and see though.
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