We all saw how bad it was in WAR without a local chat. If they dont add one to DF, this game dies for me. I wont buy it, i wont test it, if there isnt any local chat, because: - Hard to form groups without local chat, i just try to think about a Vanguard without local chat..... NO WAY In this game you should only be grouping with guild members. You will need them for protection. You can't trust non guild members. They might kill you - Hard to form any large scale battles, because no one will know, that around 1km away is a large battle Guild members will be in many different areas to scout. - Hard to sell goods, when you cant "reach" your customers Im sure the starter towns will be where things are sold since it has guards. You can also post on forums to sell stuff. - Hard to find new members for guilds Starter towns will be packed with people looking for a guild. The forums will also have lots of people looking for guilds.
Everything is hard without a good communication. Ok, my favourite mmorpg which i played most (Ragnarok Online) also didnt got any global / local chat. You should be communicating mostly with your guild. You will have guild chat and vent for that
We all saw how bad it was in WAR without a local chat. If they dont add one to DF, this game dies for me. I wont buy it, i wont test it, if there isnt any local chat, because: - Hard to form groups without local chat, i just try to think about a Vanguard without local chat..... NO WAY In this game you should only be grouping with guild members. You will need them for protection. You can't trust non guild members. They might kill you - Hard to form any large scale battles, because no one will know, that around 1km away is a large battle Guild members will be in many different areas to scout. - Hard to sell goods, when you cant "reach" your customers Im sure the starter towns will be where things are sold since it has guards. You can also post on forums to sell stuff. - Hard to find new members for guilds Starter towns will be packed with people looking for a guild. The forums will also have lots of people looking for guilds.
Everything is hard without a good communication. Ok, my favourite mmorpg which i played most (Ragnarok Online) also didnt got any global / local chat. You should be communicating mostly with your guild. You will have guild chat and vent for that
No need to be so narrow minded. We are only trying to expand the game. No need to deny that with a global chat things would be easier. Not to mention the things it would change over all. Maybe one day people would start communicating with non-guild members and ''enemies'' about trades, areas and so on
Reading this thread, I must say I'm concerned over the type of people the supporters of Darkfall think it will attact, if said supporters think they must make sure that "immature people" don't have a venue in which to spam the game.
This argument, however, is superficial, as demonstrated by the responses to comments pointing out that such a channel could be individually turned off. Some were quick to point out that global chat channels weren't realistic and could be used for giving out key information. So it's not really a question of spam, it's a question of strategy. Allright. Strategy. No global chat channel, because it would degenerate into a series of heads-up of PK/enemy movements and positions.
Let's bring this to its logical conclusion, shall we? Let there be no global guild channel. After all, it would just serve the same strategic purpose rhat is objected to by the "no global chat" partisans, and it would be unrealistic, right?
But no, apparently we can't get in the way of the almighty guilds. We can't throw hurdles into their gameplay (not that it matters, since the members will all use voicechat anyway), make things challenging for them, instead of turning them into omnipotent structures as the Darkfall makers seem to be doing.
Just imagine a game set in the Roman Empire, with the Romans being one large guild:
EMPEROR: Hello, I've a meeting later in the Senate with one of my main opponents, who says we're losing our Empire. How's it going? Let's do a round table. Lucius, what's the situation in Northern Britain?
LUCIUS: We're holding tight, but we'll need some fortifications against the Caledonians. Looks like they're mounting an attack.
EMPEROR: Okay, I'm sure we can move some troops from the Iberian peninsula for quick reinforcements. I'll also withdraw some stone from the guild bank to transfer over there. Do you read this, Commander Marius?
MARIUS: Yes, but I can't give you troops, Emperor. I'm fighting off some native rebellion zergball and it's turning nasty. I need all the men I can get, and I'm not expecting much from Gaul.
EMPEROR: Hmm, I see. Palestine could reinforce you, then. What's the situation in Palestine?
LUCIUS: He's AFK, I think.
EMPEROR: Asia Minor, then.
GAIUS: We're garrisoned in Byzantium. It's calm, so I can send you a dozen troops or so, but the closest teleportation device is at Sparta. Might take a couple of hours till they get there.
EMPEROR: Okay, let's check with Palestine first to see if they can send some troops as well. Is Palestine back?
PONTIUS: Yeah, sorry, I was in the bathroom.
EMPEROR: Couldn't you have hurried up? We're kinda discussing strategy here.
PONTIUS: What was I supposed to do, not wash my hands?
EMPEROR: Allright, allright, can you send troops to the Iberian peninsula? Sort of important.
PONTIUS: I sent some to Egypt a while ago, they're not back yet, and I can't spare more.
EMPEROR: Allright, dammit. Egypt?
And so on, and so on. So bloody easy with a global guild channel, so realistic. Why don't we seriously consider taking it away? Oh but I forget, the metagamers will hit Vent and be done with any sort of strategy based on distance and incomplete, sometimes outdated, information as it would happen in the real world before modern communication methods.
And that's what kills games -- metagaming. Forget the rest. If there's a way to get around game mechanics, there's always someone who will find a way to do it. As in this case getting rid of a global chat channel but not of a guild chat channel (made superfluous by voicechat) would only advantage those belonging to uberguilds at the expense of regular players relying on the generosity of others (which seems to be in short supply amid the Darkfall supporters), I say that there should be a global chat channel. It's just too elitist not to have one.
No need to be so narrow minded. We are only trying to expand the game. No need to deny that with a global chat things would be easier. Not to mention the things it would change over all. Maybe one day people would start communicating with non-guild members and ''enemies'' about trades, areas and so on
I belive they don't have global chat because they don't want everyone reporting everyone else's postions and such. So it will improve the game not to have it.
No need to be so narrow minded. We are only trying to expand the game. No need to deny that with a global chat things would be easier. Not to mention the things it would change over all. Maybe one day people would start communicating with non-guild members and ''enemies'' about trades, areas and so on
I belive they don't have global chat because they don't want everyone reporting everyone else's postions and such. So it will improve the game not to have it.
They implented the way guilds function. That should not affect the global chat. Besides, it would be much realistic if you could report positions and so on. Maybe also funnier in wars.
But as said, global chat will make everything easier. It's lame we have to go to special positions and use forums for doing businiess and recruiting.
1) I played many FFA PVP games and usually its not the big deal grouping with ppl which are not in your guild. Basically if you are in a 5 man group, and one guy wants to take down 4 others. It just wont work dude
Also dont forget, that if people need a group to accomplish a quest, they wont waste time with such a thing.
2) Of what kind of guilds are we speaking? 40 men? There will be many small guilds, like in every other MMORPG, and sometimes only 2 ppl will be online in a guild, or maybe 1. What do you suggest him to do on a FFA PVP server without a local chat? If you come near to another one to ask for a group he could kill you in that second, since you dont even see his "level".
3) That thing about towns sounds good, but the forum idea is a joke. We dont live in year 2000. There has been a development in mmorpgs. I dont have the time to check forums all the time to bid for items and so on. Its hard enough to find enough time to play. Selling with a local trade chat would be MUCH easier.
But if it turns out like Ragnarok Online where you have 1-2 towns full of trades, then it will be ok for me.
4) Ok, you got that point. But still easier with a local chat
My problem is just one thing, i got the same discussion in the WAR community:
PEOPLE WHO DOESNT LIKE LOCAL CHAT CAN TURN IT OFF, if there is one in the game.
BUT IF THE GAME DOESNT OFFER IT, ppl who like it say "good bye". So find out by yourself, whats better for the game.
No one would abandon DF if it would offer a local chat, since you can turn it off. But now many ppl wont play it because of the missing chat features.
Originally posted by Aghahowa PEOPLE WHO DOESNT LIKE LOCAL CHAT CAN TURN IT OFF, if there is one in the game. BUT IF THE GAME DOESNT OFFER IT, ppl who like it say "good bye". So find out by yourself, whats better for the game. No one would abandon DF if it would offer a local chat, since you can turn it off. But now many ppl wont play it because of the missing chat features.
Thats like saying they should implement overpowered loot in the game. Anyone that doesn't want to use it can just not equip it, and you can get those extra players that only will play the game if loot makes a huge difference. An individual player not using a particular tool does not free up that player from the impact that the tool has for existing in the world.
Global communication alters the game for everyone regardless of whether you turn the channel off or not. It alters where all players go, what they do, the social groups that are formed and where they are formed. Disabling a channel does not magically make all that revert back to what it would have been.
I understand people want to downplay the effect this has because in their minds they just want the game to be a certain way and try to convince people to agree, but that isn't going to change reality. Ask for global chat if you want, and hope the darkfall devs agree, but its a fact that an individual turning off global chat does not produce the same world and environment. Just like removing open PvP would, or full looting, or a skill based system vrs class based. The EXISTENCE of global chat in game turns the game into something else.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence. Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
Originally posted by Aghahowa PEOPLE WHO DOESNT LIKE LOCAL CHAT CAN TURN IT OFF, if there is one in the game. BUT IF THE GAME DOESNT OFFER IT, ppl who like it say "good bye". So find out by yourself, whats better for the game. No one would abandon DF if it would offer a local chat, since you can turn it off. But now many ppl wont play it because of the missing chat features.
Thats like saying they should implement overpowered loot in the game. Anyone that doesn't want to use it can just not equip it, and you can get those extra players that only will play the game if loot makes a huge difference. An individual player not using a particular tool does not free up that player from the impact that the tool has for existing in the world.
Global communication alters the game for everyone regardless of whether you turn the channel off or not. It alters where all players go, what they do, the social groups that are formed and where they are formed. Disabling a channel does not magically make all that revert back to what it would have been.
I understand people want to downplay the effect this has because in their minds they just want the game to be a certain way and try to convince people to agree, but that isn't going to change reality. Ask for global chat if you want, and hope the darkfall devs agree, but its a fact that an individual turning off global chat does not produce the same world and environment. Just like removing open PvP would, or full looting, or a skill based system vrs class based. The EXISTENCE of global chat in game turns the game into something else.
Your initial paragraph is correct. Just try saying you don't want to use voice chat because it makes you feel uncomfortable, and you're turned into a pariah. (I've even seen this carried to the ludicrous extent where one person wouldn't take a deaf person in a guild or group because of the impossibility of using voice chat. If that's not classic discrimination against the disabled, I don't know what is.)
However, I will reiterate my initial question: If global chat is to be discouraged because it turns the game into "something else" (what exactly? This is important since I'm assuming most of us have never seen the game to begin with), why should we allow an unrestricted and universal "guild chat" to exist? Why give well-established guilds the privilege of coordinating as much as they please, regardless of location, while ordinary players are denied the same privilege?
That made Warhammer Online look like a dead game, even at peak hours on the most populous servers at launch. But here, not including a global channel would send a strong message that casual players, and the "unguilded" need not bother. So the "community" will be reduced to the usual game-hopping large guilds duking it out between themselves until, their e-peen either reasserted or castrated, they move on to the next game. That is no long-term thinking.
And that's what kills games -- metagaming. Forget the rest. If there's a way to get around game mechanics, there's always someone who will find a way to do it. As in this case getting rid of a global chat channel but not of a guild chat channel (made superfluous by voicechat) would only advantage those belonging to uberguilds at the expense of regular players relying on the generosity of others (which seems to be in short supply amid the Darkfall supporters), I say that there should be a global chat channel. It's just too elitist not to have one.
Agreed. This was the first post that actually offered a counter argument to having a global general chat.
With no global general chat, large guilds would have a serious advantage due to their global guild chat. They will be able to talk to large numbers of players globally. Smaller guilds will also benefit in the same manner, although it will be less advantageous as they will not be able to talk to as many people globally. And finally, soloers will see zero advantage from this as they are unguilded. I prefer that the chat system does not arbitrarily reward guilds. But I also do not like the idea that a single person can communicate across the entire world.
Unfortunately, the logical conclusion is that with global general chat everyone will be on the same "playing field". Obviously, guilds will continue to use ventrilo, and nothing can be done about that.
There are a number of unfortunate side effects of global general chat:
- Information: People can give the locations of any current activity (solo pvper, group pvp, solo pve, group pve, etc). But at least you are also notified when someone gives away your position in global chat. The only consolation at least is that you can lie about said position, and then have a group ready to own whoever shows up.
- Contents of the chat: spam and inane/racist/vulgar crap, and then gold selling, WTS/WTB, lfg, etc. Again, with anything that involves meeting up in game, you will have to be wary as it could be a trap.
- Unrealistic/detracts from immersion - And no, you can't simply turn it off as it will leave you at a disadvantage if someone gives away your position in global chat. Instead, you can ignore the worst of the spammers and immature people and it won't be as terrible.
And that's what kills games -- metagaming. Forget the rest. If there's a way to get around game mechanics, there's always someone who will find a way to do it. As in this case getting rid of a global chat channel but not of a guild chat channel (made superfluous by voicechat) would only advantage those belonging to uberguilds at the expense of regular players relying on the generosity of others (which seems to be in short supply amid the Darkfall supporters), I say that there should be a global chat channel. It's just too elitist not to have one.
Agreed. This was the first post that actually offered a counter argument to having a global general chat.
With no global general chat, large guilds would have a serious advantage due to their global guild chat. They will be able to talk to large numbers of players globally. Smaller guilds will also benefit in the same manner, although it will be less advantageous as they will not be able to talk to as many people globally. And finally, soloers will see zero advantage from this as they are unguilded. I prefer that the chat system does not arbitrarily reward guilds. But I also do not like the idea that a single person can communicate across the entire world.
Unfortunately, the logical conclusion is that with global general chat everyone will be on the same "playing field". Obviously, guilds will continue to use ventrilo, and nothing can be done about that.
There are a number of unfortunate side effects of global general chat:
- Information: People can give the locations of any current activity (solo pvper, group pvp, solo pve, group pve, etc). But at least you are also notified when someone gives away your position in global chat. The only consolation at least is that you can lie about said position, and then have a group ready to own whoever shows up.
- Contents of the chat: spam and inane/racist/vulgar crap, and then gold selling, WTS/WTB, lfg, etc. Again, with anything that involves meeting up in game, you will have to be wary as it could be a trap.
- Unrealistic/detracts from immersion - And no, you can't simply turn it off as it will leave you at a disadvantage if someone gives away your position in global chat. Instead, you can ignore the worst of the spammers and immature people and it won't be as terrible.
well for global chat they could handle it so that if you read the chat of a different race, it's presented to you as gibberish (I believe Rising Force handled it that way for global chat spies). That way your global chat would work only for those of ur race, and doesn't give an advantage to enemy races. Just a thought
I have gotten confirmation from the DF forums that there WILL be a local chat with something like the /say option so others near you can hear what you say.
I still say that this is a huge break down for their player numbers.
- Casuals wont join that game
- Most ppl who played the mmorpgs of the last few years, even players from DAoC and EQ wont like to play a game without a global chat
Mostly we will have a small community with a few hardcore guilds and nearly no one will bother about that game.
In WAR so many ppl started crying when they realized that there is no global / zone chat, and now dont tell me that WAR community = WoW Community, we all know how many DAoC players and other players are there. Because they like Open PVP.
Lets see what they really impelement to the release version of DF, i still think that we might have some kind of zone chat, which would be also ok. I dont need a server wide global chat... at least i want to be able to chat to the people in my area...
I have gotten confirmation from the DF forums that there WILL be a local chat with something like the /say option so others near you can hear what you say. There will be NO global chat. There will be NO chat bubbles.
It's awesome with NO Globetrotter chat. hay mommy wheres this hay mommy wheres that ..... FU find it WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAh 10000 thumbs up on no GLOBE chat. now take out the way points and the Blabber mouth wiki this and that FK ban em all Kick em in the nutz i say... KSers. LOL. and on a side note STF> U... kmao,,,, HAPPY NEW year.
Lol have to start of with a BAN YA KNOW........or even a warning....
OHHH MODS >waves< >smiles< >dinner on Juu ok< LOL......
1) I played many FFA PVP games and usually its not the big deal grouping with ppl which are not in your guild. Basically if you are in a 5 man group, and one guy wants to take down 4 others. It just wont work dude If they aren't in your guild, you should be killing them, not grouping with them. 2) Of what kind of guilds are we speaking? 40 men? There will be many small guilds, like in every other MMORPG, and sometimes only 2 ppl will be online in a guild, or maybe 1. What do you suggest him to do on a FFA PVP server without a local chat? If you come near to another one to ask for a group he could kill you in that second, since you dont even see his "level". The main point of this game is controlling cities. You will need a large guild to hold on to a city. There won't be any tiny guilds. 3) That thing about towns sounds good, but the forum idea is a joke. We dont live in year 2000. There has been a development in mmorpgs. I dont have the time to check forums all the time to bid for items and so on. Its hard enough to find enough time to play. Selling with a local trade chat would be MUCH easier. Trading on forums is actually easier. When you trade online, you both have to be online at the same time. When you trade on the forums, you don't But if it turns out like Ragnarok Online where you have 1-2 towns full of trades, then it will be ok for me. 4) Ok, you got that point. But still easier with a local chat My problem is just one thing, i got the same discussion in the WAR community: PEOPLE WHO DOESNT LIKE LOCAL CHAT CAN TURN IT OFF, if there is one in the game. BUT IF THE GAME DOESNT OFFER IT, ppl who like it say "good bye". So find out by yourself, whats better for the game. No one would abandon DF if it would offer a local chat, since you can turn it off. But now many ppl wont play it because of the missing chat features. The devs think its vital for gameplay not to have everyone revealing everyones postions.
I have gotten confirmation from the DF forums that there WILL be a local chat with something like the /say option so others near you can hear what you say. There will be NO global chat. There will be NO chat bubbles.
And this is the way it should be.
Global chat is just bad.
BAN all Globetrotters i say, bad for ya..... /caugh.
1) I played many FFA PVP games and usually its not the big deal grouping with ppl which are not in your guild. Basically if you are in a 5 man group, and one guy wants to take down 4 others. It just wont work dude If they aren't in your guild, you should be killing them, not grouping with them. 2) Of what kind of guilds are we speaking? 40 men? There will be many small guilds, like in every other MMORPG, and sometimes only 2 ppl will be online in a guild, or maybe 1. What do you suggest him to do on a FFA PVP server without a local chat? If you come near to another one to ask for a group he could kill you in that second, since you dont even see his "level". The main point of this game is controlling cities. You will need a large guild to hold on to a city. There won't be any tiny guilds. 3) That thing about towns sounds good, but the forum idea is a joke. We dont live in year 2000. There has been a development in mmorpgs. I dont have the time to check forums all the time to bid for items and so on. Its hard enough to find enough time to play. Selling with a local trade chat would be MUCH easier. Trading on forums is actually easier. When you trade online, you both have to be online at the same time. When you trade on the forums, you don't But if it turns out like Ragnarok Online where you have 1-2 towns full of trades, then it will be ok for me. 4) Ok, you got that point. But still easier with a local chat My problem is just one thing, i got the same discussion in the WAR community: PEOPLE WHO DOESNT LIKE LOCAL CHAT CAN TURN IT OFF, if there is one in the game. BUT IF THE GAME DOESNT OFFER IT, ppl who like it say "good bye". So find out by yourself, whats better for the game. No one would abandon DF if it would offer a local chat, since you can turn it off. But now many ppl wont play it because of the missing chat features. The devs think its vital for gameplay not to have everyone revealing everyones postions.
again the solution, enemy race global chat comes off as unrecongizble gibberish... hence it could look like this example: "Articchaoz: @#%@%%%@!" to those of different races. Under the RFonline global chat mechanic, you can't have spies give away any positioning"
Basically you would only understand your race's chat... It would still be important to give a global chat out to your race say if you needed a city to be defended, and if DF would have done it like in RFO global chat would not be a problem....
Besides, they might as well put in global chat as people in RFO got around that by using vent to spy in enemy torritories. The "racefilter" in RFO nor the lack of Global Chat in DF will not stop people who decide to have 2 accounts, and use vent to spy on the enemie races.
again the solution, enemy race global chat comes off as unrecongizble gibberish... hence it could look like this example: "Articchaoz: @#%@%%%@!" to those of different races. Under the RFonline global chat mechanic, you can't have spies give away any positioning"
There will be people in your own race who will be enemies. There are going to be ARAC guilds. Even one race guilds can declare war on guilds of the same race. So It wouldn't work.
Originally posted by Aghahowa PEOPLE WHO DOESNT LIKE LOCAL CHAT CAN TURN IT OFF, if there is one in the game. BUT IF THE GAME DOESNT OFFER IT, ppl who like it say "good bye". So find out by yourself, whats better for the game. No one would abandon DF if it would offer a local chat, since you can turn it off. But now many ppl wont play it because of the missing chat features.
Thats like saying they should implement overpowered loot in the game. Anyone that doesn't want to use it can just not equip it, and you can get those extra players that only will play the game if loot makes a huge difference. An individual player not using a particular tool does not free up that player from the impact that the tool has for existing in the world.
Global communication alters the game for everyone regardless of whether you turn the channel off or not. It alters where all players go, what they do, the social groups that are formed and where they are formed. Disabling a channel does not magically make all that revert back to what it would have been.
I understand people want to downplay the effect this has because in their minds they just want the game to be a certain way and try to convince people to agree, but that isn't going to change reality. Ask for global chat if you want, and hope the darkfall devs agree, but its a fact that an individual turning off global chat does not produce the same world and environment. Just like removing open PvP would, or full looting, or a skill based system vrs class based. The EXISTENCE of global chat in game turns the game into something else.
Your initial paragraph is correct. Just try saying you don't want to use voice chat because it makes you feel uncomfortable, and you're turned into a pariah. (I've even seen this carried to the ludicrous extent where one person wouldn't take a deaf person in a guild or group because of the impossibility of using voice chat. If that's not classic discrimination against the disabled, I don't know what is.)
However, I will reiterate my initial question: If global chat is to be discouraged because it turns the game into "something else" (what exactly? This is important since I'm assuming most of us have never seen the game to begin with), why should we allow an unrestricted and universal "guild chat" to exist? Why give well-established guilds the privilege of coordinating as much as they please, regardless of location, while ordinary players are denied the same privilege?
That made Warhammer Online look like a dead game, even at peak hours on the most populous servers at launch. But here, not including a global channel would send a strong message that casual players, and the "unguilded" need not bother. So the "community" will be reduced to the usual game-hopping large guilds duking it out between themselves until, their e-peen either reasserted or castrated, they move on to the next game. That is no long-term thinking.
First and foremost: GLOBAL FACTION CHAT is not GLOBAL OPEN CHAT
Please differ these 2. Theres also a difference between GLOBAL LOCKED FACTION and GLOBAL OPEN FACTION (meaning games where you are locked to a faction, and those in wich you can change factions) - althou the difference might be lesser depending on how hard it is to switch factions.
Warhammer is a Faction game, the have GLOBAL FACTION CHAT.
Ah GLOBAL OPEN CHAT in DF will not be the same as the ones in Warhammer by far. Not having global chats in a game like warhammer was stupid, rightfully they fixxed that fast.
If you insist on bringing Warhammer in to compare with, compare it to a warhammer chat that was global and let both factions talk in it (and understand eachother ofcourse). Couse thats what a global open chat in DF will be like. A chat all sides of any fight/war can talk in.
Secondly: ill give you an examples of how a community and the feeling of exploring/adventuring is with the not having and having a OPEN GLOBAL CHAT.
Lineage 2 and AoC.
If you havent played both games at there peak times (talking C1-C4 of L2 before the dualbox went rampant, and first months in AoC) its very hard to explain. But would like to hear from any player that has played this and could say to me with a straight face that there was no difference in the feeling of meeting people in the open, the community etc.
The difference is very very huuuge. I know it might be hard to believe. And yes its largly thanks to the chatsystems.
Ill do a bad try to give an ounche of the feeling. (i suck at this hehehe)
Imagine the scenario walking in to the area Lost Forest, its an area of high level monsters that you know can be soloed and or duoed (a area for small parties/good soloclasses). Therefor you also know there are usually a good number of other adventurers in here, and your clan is at war with a few clans already.
Now in scenario one the first thing you see is 2 names you recognise amongs another 36 ppl smacktalking/chatting/lfg in the global region chat, one is a name of a neutral friend you know that is talking shit to the other person you know that is an anemie of your clan. You instantly know that they are in the area by there talking and by the looks of it your enemie player in the chat is not alone there (your neutral friend seems to talk as he was ganked by a squad).
What do you do from here on? the forest has probably more then one enemie, if not directly in it, they are closeby in the region - your neutral friend would probably remember you from your party the day before and answer more questions on the situation......
Scenario 2: theres 2 ppl closeby somewhere talking in yell LF partner to duo with, the rest of the forest is as usual very mysterious.
Do you press on... ? (ofcourse the same ppl are in there but theres noway you know that since they are talking in yell/say/pm chat wich wont reach you unthil you are within there vicinity)
It probably sounds stupid, but atleast i think it can give you an idea of how the difference can be in some occasion atleast.
Global Chat gives you "birds eyes" - youll know alot before its even comming. Guild Chat might be thought of as similar, but at most youll get scout reports in there - unless its a reeeaally big guild and everyone is doing there party chatting in the guildchat .
The next step from global chat would be a "/who area" command in that sense.
Lastly Quote in green:
Why give well-established guilds the privilege of coordinating as much as they please, regardless of location, while ordinary players are denied the same privilege?
Thats one of the privilages of having a guild, it will be organised. And in a game like this, its meant to be guild heavy. And a guild is nothing thats out of reach for ordinary players. Most guilds are run and filled by ordinary players. And non-guild players can use friendlists, ask friends in other guilds to send message out, use raid channels, party channels. Or simply yell in player hubbs. But i doubt players who want nothing to do with guilds and just play solo to play a game like DF, and if they do they will do so knowing the challanges it provides (thats probably a reason why they enjoy it).
There are pros and places for other chatsystems then the ones used in Wow/WAR/EQ. There are cons for global chatting, but there are many pros too. Depending on the game, one option might be better then the other. For WAR it was a nobrainer, Global faction chat was a must!.
P.S - Sorry for the CAPs heavy text. Im not trying to yell, just naming the differences abit.
FagerCraft - Feeding the trolls on mmorpg.com since 2005.
1) I played many FFA PVP games and usually its not the big deal grouping with ppl which are not in your guild. Basically if you are in a 5 man group, and one guy wants to take down 4 others. It just wont work dude If they aren't in your guild, you should be killing them, not grouping with them. 2) Of what kind of guilds are we speaking? 40 men? There will be many small guilds, like in every other MMORPG, and sometimes only 2 ppl will be online in a guild, or maybe 1. What do you suggest him to do on a FFA PVP server without a local chat? If you come near to another one to ask for a group he could kill you in that second, since you dont even see his "level". The main point of this game is controlling cities. You will need a large guild to hold on to a city. There won't be any tiny guilds. 3) That thing about towns sounds good, but the forum idea is a joke. We dont live in year 2000. There has been a development in mmorpgs. I dont have the time to check forums all the time to bid for items and so on. Its hard enough to find enough time to play. Selling with a local trade chat would be MUCH easier. Trading on forums is actually easier. When you trade online, you both have to be online at the same time. When you trade on the forums, you don't But if it turns out like Ragnarok Online where you have 1-2 towns full of trades, then it will be ok for me. 4) Ok, you got that point. But still easier with a local chat My problem is just one thing, i got the same discussion in the WAR community: PEOPLE WHO DOESNT LIKE LOCAL CHAT CAN TURN IT OFF, if there is one in the game. BUT IF THE GAME DOESNT OFFER IT, ppl who like it say "good bye". So find out by yourself, whats better for the game. No one would abandon DF if it would offer a local chat, since you can turn it off. But now many ppl wont play it because of the missing chat features. The devs think its vital for gameplay not to have everyone revealing everyones postions.
again the solution, enemy race global chat comes off as unrecongizble gibberish... hence it could look like this example: "Articchaoz: @#%@%%%@!" to those of different races. Under the RFonline global chat mechanic, you can't have spies give away any positioning"
Basically you would only understand your race's chat... It would still be important to give a global chat out to your race say if you needed a city to be defended, and if DF would have done it like in RFO global chat would not be a problem....
Besides, they might as well put in global chat as people in RFO got around that by using vent to spy in enemy torritories. The "racefilter" in RFO nor the lack of Global Chat in DF will not stop people who decide to have 2 accounts, and use vent to spy on the enemie races.
The difference is DFO is not a FvF game. It has factions, but you are not locked to them - guilds with players from all factions will be supported and can be competetive.
Spying will never be able to replace global chat, it can circumvent ingame racial barriers - but thats different, very different. Unless there are like ventrilo servers you automaticly join when entering a zone
FagerCraft - Feeding the trolls on mmorpg.com since 2005.
1) I played many FFA PVP games and usually its not the big deal grouping with ppl which are not in your guild. Basically if you are in a 5 man group, and one guy wants to take down 4 others. It just wont work dude If they aren't in your guild, you should be killing them, not grouping with them. 2) Of what kind of guilds are we speaking? 40 men? There will be many small guilds, like in every other MMORPG, and sometimes only 2 ppl will be online in a guild, or maybe 1. What do you suggest him to do on a FFA PVP server without a local chat? If you come near to another one to ask for a group he could kill you in that second, since you dont even see his "level". The main point of this game is controlling cities. You will need a large guild to hold on to a city. There won't be any tiny guilds. 3) That thing about towns sounds good, but the forum idea is a joke. We dont live in year 2000. There has been a development in mmorpgs. I dont have the time to check forums all the time to bid for items and so on. Its hard enough to find enough time to play. Selling with a local trade chat would be MUCH easier. Trading on forums is actually easier. When you trade online, you both have to be online at the same time. When you trade on the forums, you don't But if it turns out like Ragnarok Online where you have 1-2 towns full of trades, then it will be ok for me. 4) Ok, you got that point. But still easier with a local chat My problem is just one thing, i got the same discussion in the WAR community: PEOPLE WHO DOESNT LIKE LOCAL CHAT CAN TURN IT OFF, if there is one in the game. BUT IF THE GAME DOESNT OFFER IT, ppl who like it say "good bye". So find out by yourself, whats better for the game. No one would abandon DF if it would offer a local chat, since you can turn it off. But now many ppl wont play it because of the missing chat features. The devs think its vital for gameplay not to have everyone revealing everyones postions.
again the solution, enemy race global chat comes off as unrecongizble gibberish... hence it could look like this example: "Articchaoz: @#%@%%%@!" to those of different races. Under the RFonline global chat mechanic, you can't have spies give away any positioning"
Basically you would only understand your race's chat... It would still be important to give a global chat out to your race say if you needed a city to be defended, and if DF would have done it like in RFO global chat would not be a problem....
Besides, they might as well put in global chat as people in RFO got around that by using vent to spy in enemy torritories. The "racefilter" in RFO nor the lack of Global Chat in DF will not stop people who decide to have 2 accounts, and use vent to spy on the enemie races.
The difference is DFO is not a FvF game. It has factions, but you are not locked to them - guilds with players from all factions will be supported and can be competetive.
Spying will never be able to replace global chat, it can circumvent ingame racial barriers - but thats different, very different. Unless there are like ventrilo servers you automaticly join when entering a zone
RvR or FvF same diff, Chat over mass distance is for the damn birds, and lazy people.
If you get ganked then you should not have been there in the first place, (been told that 1000 times)
and yes i hate PvP worse than pissing into the wind when it's 40 below. RvR is a different matter and so is FvF, different wind to this to, one i don't mind. Chat should be gone out of game altogeather, beer drinking only allowed and drunken chatter... Nuff said.... LMAO... saucie bastage today arent I....
Reading this thread, I must say I'm concerned over the type of people the supporters of Darkfall think it will attact, if said supporters think they must make sure that "immature people" don't have a venue in which to spam the game. This argument, however, is superficial, as demonstrated by the responses to comments pointing out that such a channel could be individually turned off. Some were quick to point out that global chat channels weren't realistic and could be used for So it's not really a question of spam, it's a question of strategy. Allright. Strategy. No global chat channel, because it would degenerate into a series of heads-up of PK/enemy movements and positions. Let's bring this to its logical conclusion, shall we? Let there be no global guild channel. After all, it would just serve the same strategic purpose rhat is objected to by the "no global chat" partisans, and it would be unrealistic, right? But no, apparently we can't get in the way of the almighty guilds. We can't throw hurdles into their gameplay (not that it matters, since the members will all use voicechat anyway), make things challenging for them, instead of turning them into omnipotent structures as the Darkfall makers seem to be doing. Just imagine a game set in the Roman Empire, with the Romans being one large guild: EMPEROR: Hello, I've a meeting later in the Senate with one of my main opponents, who says we're losing our Empire. How's it going? Let's do a round table. Lucius, what's the situation in Northern Britain?
LUCIUS: We're holding tight, but we'll need some fortifications against the Caledonians. Looks like they're mounting an attack.
EMPEROR: Okay, I'm sure we can move some troops from the Iberian peninsula for quick reinforcements. I'll also withdraw some stone from the guild bank to transfer over there. Do you read this, Commander Marius?
MARIUS: Yes, but I can't give you troops, Emperor. I'm fighting off some native rebellion zergball and it's turning nasty. I need all the men I can get, and I'm not expecting much from Gaul.
EMPEROR: Hmm, I see. Palestine could reinforce you, then. What's the situation in Palestine?
LUCIUS: He's AFK, I think.
EMPEROR: Asia Minor, then.
GAIUS: We're garrisoned in Byzantium. It's calm, so I can send you a dozen troops or so, but the closest teleportation device is at Sparta. Might take a couple of hours till they get there.
EMPEROR: Okay, let's check with Palestine first to see if they can send some troops as well. Is Palestine back?
PONTIUS: Yeah, sorry, I was in the bathroom.
EMPEROR: Couldn't you have hurried up? We're kinda discussing strategy here.
PONTIUS: What was I supposed to do, not wash my hands?
EMPEROR: Allright, allright, can you send troops to the Iberian peninsula? Sort of important.
PONTIUS: I sent some to Egypt a while ago, they're not back yet, and I can't spare more.
EMPEROR: Allright, dammit. Egypt? And so on, and so on. So bloody easy with a global guild channel, so realistic. Why don't we seriously consider taking it away? Oh but I forget, the metagamers will hit Vent and be done with any sort of strategy based on distance and incomplete, sometimes outdated, information as it would happen in the real world before modern communication methods. And that's what kills games -- metagaming. Forget the rest. If there's a way to get around game mechanics, there's always someone who will find a way to do it. As in this case getting rid of a global chat channel but not of a guild chat channel (made superfluous by voicechat) would only advantage those belonging to uberguilds at the expense of regular players relying on the generosity of others (which seems to be in short supply amid the Darkfall supporters), I say that there should be a global chat channel. It's just too elitist not to have one.
Amazing post. You, like many supporters of Global Chat, have the same valid reasoning for said feature.
I still stand by the point that I was trying to make though, which wasn't covered in your post: Removing Global/Regional Chat will create an environment where players will search for each other, form trade/meeting areas and come together avatar to avatar. This leads to more interaction between strangers, which makes the game more enjoyable.
Imagine in a conventional MMO, when someone has a question and they are out adventuring, they simply ask their question in chat and receive their answer from someone, then both people and any observers carry on their way.
Now imagine without this long range chat, the player will search for other players to answer their question. After finding some players who may or may not have the answer, they start to talk, decide to go on an adventure, on observer in close proximity asks to join, or maybe he finds someone but they are being attacked by a ferocious monster and the player decides to help him. The likelyhood of this happening on accident is much higher with this kind of system and it is truly a great experience because it's so unexpected.
A had many experiences like this in UO (no global/regional) chat. I remember one time (keep in mind I was 14...ish), before I could tame horses, someone had abandoned their horse on the side of the road by the cave I mined frequently. I decided to try and tame it, give it apples and crap to gain its favor. I would come back every hour or so and try again (because I didn't understand taming). One time I came back and found the horse being attacked by a giant Ettin. I rushed to the horses rescue, hoping it would favor me once I had defeated the Ettin, but there was no way my miner could take down that ettin. I struggled for a long time, eventually ran out of stamina, the horse died and I was going to die. I had no way to contact anyone, no way to escape...
Out of nowhere, some dude walks on by, sees me there fighting for my life and jumps in to save me. It was one of the most awesome MMO experiences I've ever had. I think the pleasant surprise was what I liked about it so much. It was unpredictable. If I had global chat to shout out for help, it would've been an okay experience, but not nearly as exciting.
Sorry for the wall of text, I'm trying to make a point.
Why isn't this retardism spewing thread not closed yet? All those walls of text are friggin useless because OP's post is misleading. There IS global chat, but only three channels - /guild /party and /pm. Nothing has been said about lack of local chat channels like /zone-general /zone-trade /say /yell etc etc. Sheesh.
Why isn't this retardism spewing thread not closed yet? All those walls of text are friggin useless because OP's post is misleading. There IS global chat, but only three channels - /guild /party and /pm. Nothing has been said about lack of local chat channels like /zone-general /zone-trade /say /yell etc etc. Sheesh.
This. Not only that, a global chat channel borders on absolute retardation with each world server capable of supporting 10,000 players simlultaneously, where the map takes 8 hours to run from corner to corner of the main island.
Comments
No need to be so narrow minded. We are only trying to expand the game. No need to deny that with a global chat things would be easier. Not to mention the things it would change over all. Maybe one day people would start communicating with non-guild members and ''enemies'' about trades, areas and so on
Reading this thread, I must say I'm concerned over the type of people the supporters of Darkfall think it will attact, if said supporters think they must make sure that "immature people" don't have a venue in which to spam the game.
This argument, however, is superficial, as demonstrated by the responses to comments pointing out that such a channel could be individually turned off. Some were quick to point out that global chat channels weren't realistic and could be used for giving out key information. So it's not really a question of spam, it's a question of strategy. Allright. Strategy. No global chat channel, because it would degenerate into a series of heads-up of PK/enemy movements and positions.
Let's bring this to its logical conclusion, shall we? Let there be no global guild channel. After all, it would just serve the same strategic purpose rhat is objected to by the "no global chat" partisans, and it would be unrealistic, right?
But no, apparently we can't get in the way of the almighty guilds. We can't throw hurdles into their gameplay (not that it matters, since the members will all use voicechat anyway), make things challenging for them, instead of turning them into omnipotent structures as the Darkfall makers seem to be doing.
Just imagine a game set in the Roman Empire, with the Romans being one large guild:
EMPEROR: Hello, I've a meeting later in the Senate with one of my main opponents, who says we're losing our Empire. How's it going? Let's do a round table. Lucius, what's the situation in Northern Britain?
LUCIUS: We're holding tight, but we'll need some fortifications against the Caledonians. Looks like they're mounting an attack.
EMPEROR: Okay, I'm sure we can move some troops from the Iberian peninsula for quick reinforcements. I'll also withdraw some stone from the guild bank to transfer over there. Do you read this, Commander Marius?
MARIUS: Yes, but I can't give you troops, Emperor. I'm fighting off some native rebellion zergball and it's turning nasty. I need all the men I can get, and I'm not expecting much from Gaul.
EMPEROR: Hmm, I see. Palestine could reinforce you, then. What's the situation in Palestine?
LUCIUS: He's AFK, I think.
EMPEROR: Asia Minor, then.
GAIUS: We're garrisoned in Byzantium. It's calm, so I can send you a dozen troops or so, but the closest teleportation device is at Sparta. Might take a couple of hours till they get there.
EMPEROR: Okay, let's check with Palestine first to see if they can send some troops as well. Is Palestine back?
PONTIUS: Yeah, sorry, I was in the bathroom.
EMPEROR: Couldn't you have hurried up? We're kinda discussing strategy here.
PONTIUS: What was I supposed to do, not wash my hands?
EMPEROR: Allright, allright, can you send troops to the Iberian peninsula? Sort of important.
PONTIUS: I sent some to Egypt a while ago, they're not back yet, and I can't spare more.
EMPEROR: Allright, dammit. Egypt?
And so on, and so on. So bloody easy with a global guild channel, so realistic. Why don't we seriously consider taking it away? Oh but I forget, the metagamers will hit Vent and be done with any sort of strategy based on distance and incomplete, sometimes outdated, information as it would happen in the real world before modern communication methods.
And that's what kills games -- metagaming. Forget the rest. If there's a way to get around game mechanics, there's always someone who will find a way to do it. As in this case getting rid of a global chat channel but not of a guild chat channel (made superfluous by voicechat) would only advantage those belonging to uberguilds at the expense of regular players relying on the generosity of others (which seems to be in short supply amid the Darkfall supporters), I say that there should be a global chat channel. It's just too elitist not to have one.
its ironic how restricting DF really is when it claims to have no boundries.
if people don't like these chat channels turn them off. there is absolutely no counter arguement to this.
My blog:
I belive they don't have global chat because they don't want everyone reporting everyone else's postions and such. So it will improve the game not to have it.
I belive they don't have global chat because they don't want everyone reporting everyone else's postions and such. So it will improve the game not to have it.
They implented the way guilds function. That should not affect the global chat. Besides, it would be much realistic if you could report positions and so on. Maybe also funnier in wars.
But as said, global chat will make everything easier. It's lame we have to go to special positions and use forums for doing businiess and recruiting.
@ ghoul31
1) I played many FFA PVP games and usually its not the big deal grouping with ppl which are not in your guild. Basically if you are in a 5 man group, and one guy wants to take down 4 others. It just wont work dude
Also dont forget, that if people need a group to accomplish a quest, they wont waste time with such a thing.
2) Of what kind of guilds are we speaking? 40 men? There will be many small guilds, like in every other MMORPG, and sometimes only 2 ppl will be online in a guild, or maybe 1. What do you suggest him to do on a FFA PVP server without a local chat? If you come near to another one to ask for a group he could kill you in that second, since you dont even see his "level".
3) That thing about towns sounds good, but the forum idea is a joke. We dont live in year 2000. There has been a development in mmorpgs. I dont have the time to check forums all the time to bid for items and so on. Its hard enough to find enough time to play. Selling with a local trade chat would be MUCH easier.
But if it turns out like Ragnarok Online where you have 1-2 towns full of trades, then it will be ok for me.
4) Ok, you got that point. But still easier with a local chat
My problem is just one thing, i got the same discussion in the WAR community:
PEOPLE WHO DOESNT LIKE LOCAL CHAT CAN TURN IT OFF, if there is one in the game.
BUT IF THE GAME DOESNT OFFER IT, ppl who like it say "good bye". So find out by yourself, whats better for the game.
No one would abandon DF if it would offer a local chat, since you can turn it off. But now many ppl wont play it because of the missing chat features.
Thats like saying they should implement overpowered loot in the game. Anyone that doesn't want to use it can just not equip it, and you can get those extra players that only will play the game if loot makes a huge difference. An individual player not using a particular tool does not free up that player from the impact that the tool has for existing in the world.
Global communication alters the game for everyone regardless of whether you turn the channel off or not. It alters where all players go, what they do, the social groups that are formed and where they are formed. Disabling a channel does not magically make all that revert back to what it would have been.
I understand people want to downplay the effect this has because in their minds they just want the game to be a certain way and try to convince people to agree, but that isn't going to change reality. Ask for global chat if you want, and hope the darkfall devs agree, but its a fact that an individual turning off global chat does not produce the same world and environment. Just like removing open PvP would, or full looting, or a skill based system vrs class based. The EXISTENCE of global chat in game turns the game into something else.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
Thats like saying they should implement overpowered loot in the game. Anyone that doesn't want to use it can just not equip it, and you can get those extra players that only will play the game if loot makes a huge difference. An individual player not using a particular tool does not free up that player from the impact that the tool has for existing in the world.
Global communication alters the game for everyone regardless of whether you turn the channel off or not. It alters where all players go, what they do, the social groups that are formed and where they are formed. Disabling a channel does not magically make all that revert back to what it would have been.
I understand people want to downplay the effect this has because in their minds they just want the game to be a certain way and try to convince people to agree, but that isn't going to change reality. Ask for global chat if you want, and hope the darkfall devs agree, but its a fact that an individual turning off global chat does not produce the same world and environment. Just like removing open PvP would, or full looting, or a skill based system vrs class based. The EXISTENCE of global chat in game turns the game into something else.
Your initial paragraph is correct. Just try saying you don't want to use voice chat because it makes you feel uncomfortable, and you're turned into a pariah. (I've even seen this carried to the ludicrous extent where one person wouldn't take a deaf person in a guild or group because of the impossibility of using voice chat. If that's not classic discrimination against the disabled, I don't know what is.)
However, I will reiterate my initial question: If global chat is to be discouraged because it turns the game into "something else" (what exactly? This is important since I'm assuming most of us have never seen the game to begin with), why should we allow an unrestricted and universal "guild chat" to exist? Why give well-established guilds the privilege of coordinating as much as they please, regardless of location, while ordinary players are denied the same privilege?
That made Warhammer Online look like a dead game, even at peak hours on the most populous servers at launch. But here, not including a global channel would send a strong message that casual players, and the "unguilded" need not bother. So the "community" will be reduced to the usual game-hopping large guilds duking it out between themselves until, their e-peen either reasserted or castrated, they move on to the next game. That is no long-term thinking.
Agreed. This was the first post that actually offered a counter argument to having a global general chat.
With no global general chat, large guilds would have a serious advantage due to their global guild chat. They will be able to talk to large numbers of players globally. Smaller guilds will also benefit in the same manner, although it will be less advantageous as they will not be able to talk to as many people globally. And finally, soloers will see zero advantage from this as they are unguilded. I prefer that the chat system does not arbitrarily reward guilds. But I also do not like the idea that a single person can communicate across the entire world.
Unfortunately, the logical conclusion is that with global general chat everyone will be on the same "playing field". Obviously, guilds will continue to use ventrilo, and nothing can be done about that.
There are a number of unfortunate side effects of global general chat:
- Information: People can give the locations of any current activity (solo pvper, group pvp, solo pve, group pve, etc). But at least you are also notified when someone gives away your position in global chat. The only consolation at least is that you can lie about said position, and then have a group ready to own whoever shows up.
- Contents of the chat: spam and inane/racist/vulgar crap, and then gold selling, WTS/WTB, lfg, etc. Again, with anything that involves meeting up in game, you will have to be wary as it could be a trap.
- Unrealistic/detracts from immersion - And no, you can't simply turn it off as it will leave you at a disadvantage if someone gives away your position in global chat. Instead, you can ignore the worst of the spammers and immature people and it won't be as terrible.
Agreed. This was the first post that actually offered a counter argument to having a global general chat.
With no global general chat, large guilds would have a serious advantage due to their global guild chat. They will be able to talk to large numbers of players globally. Smaller guilds will also benefit in the same manner, although it will be less advantageous as they will not be able to talk to as many people globally. And finally, soloers will see zero advantage from this as they are unguilded. I prefer that the chat system does not arbitrarily reward guilds. But I also do not like the idea that a single person can communicate across the entire world.
Unfortunately, the logical conclusion is that with global general chat everyone will be on the same "playing field". Obviously, guilds will continue to use ventrilo, and nothing can be done about that.
There are a number of unfortunate side effects of global general chat:
- Information: People can give the locations of any current activity (solo pvper, group pvp, solo pve, group pve, etc). But at least you are also notified when someone gives away your position in global chat. The only consolation at least is that you can lie about said position, and then have a group ready to own whoever shows up.
- Contents of the chat: spam and inane/racist/vulgar crap, and then gold selling, WTS/WTB, lfg, etc. Again, with anything that involves meeting up in game, you will have to be wary as it could be a trap.
- Unrealistic/detracts from immersion - And no, you can't simply turn it off as it will leave you at a disadvantage if someone gives away your position in global chat. Instead, you can ignore the worst of the spammers and immature people and it won't be as terrible.
well for global chat they could handle it so that if you read the chat of a different race, it's presented to you as gibberish (I believe Rising Force handled it that way for global chat spies). That way your global chat would work only for those of ur race, and doesn't give an advantage to enemy races. Just a thought
I have gotten confirmation from the DF forums that there WILL be a local chat with something like the /say option so others near you can hear what you say.
There will be NO global chat.
There will be NO chat bubbles.
I still say that this is a huge break down for their player numbers.
- Casuals wont join that game
- Most ppl who played the mmorpgs of the last few years, even players from DAoC and EQ wont like to play a game without a global chat
Mostly we will have a small community with a few hardcore guilds and nearly no one will bother about that game.
In WAR so many ppl started crying when they realized that there is no global / zone chat, and now dont tell me that WAR community = WoW Community, we all know how many DAoC players and other players are there. Because they like Open PVP.
Lets see what they really impelement to the release version of DF, i still think that we might have some kind of zone chat, which would be also ok. I dont need a server wide global chat... at least i want to be able to chat to the people in my area...
And this is the way it should be.
Global chat is just bad.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
It's awesome with NO Globetrotter chat. hay mommy wheres this hay mommy wheres that ..... FU find it WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAh 10000 thumbs up on no GLOBE chat. now take out the way points and the Blabber mouth wiki this and that FK ban em all Kick em in the nutz i say... KSers. LOL. and on a side note STF> U... kmao,,,, HAPPY NEW year.
Lol have to start of with a BAN YA KNOW........or even a warning....
OHHH MODS >waves< >smiles< >dinner on Juu ok< LOL......
And this is the way it should be.
Global chat is just bad.
BAN all Globetrotters i say, bad for ya..... /caugh.
again the solution, enemy race global chat comes off as unrecongizble gibberish... hence it could look like this example: "Articchaoz: @#%@%%%@!" to those of different races. Under the RFonline global chat mechanic, you can't have spies give away any positioning"
Basically you would only understand your race's chat... It would still be important to give a global chat out to your race say if you needed a city to be defended, and if DF would have done it like in RFO global chat would not be a problem....
Besides, they might as well put in global chat as people in RFO got around that by using vent to spy in enemy torritories. The "racefilter" in RFO nor the lack of Global Chat in DF will not stop people who decide to have 2 accounts, and use vent to spy on the enemie races.
There will be people in your own race who will be enemies. There are going to be ARAC guilds. Even one race guilds can declare war on guilds of the same race. So It wouldn't work.
Thats like saying they should implement overpowered loot in the game. Anyone that doesn't want to use it can just not equip it, and you can get those extra players that only will play the game if loot makes a huge difference. An individual player not using a particular tool does not free up that player from the impact that the tool has for existing in the world.
Global communication alters the game for everyone regardless of whether you turn the channel off or not. It alters where all players go, what they do, the social groups that are formed and where they are formed. Disabling a channel does not magically make all that revert back to what it would have been.
I understand people want to downplay the effect this has because in their minds they just want the game to be a certain way and try to convince people to agree, but that isn't going to change reality. Ask for global chat if you want, and hope the darkfall devs agree, but its a fact that an individual turning off global chat does not produce the same world and environment. Just like removing open PvP would, or full looting, or a skill based system vrs class based. The EXISTENCE of global chat in game turns the game into something else.
Your initial paragraph is correct. Just try saying you don't want to use voice chat because it makes you feel uncomfortable, and you're turned into a pariah. (I've even seen this carried to the ludicrous extent where one person wouldn't take a deaf person in a guild or group because of the impossibility of using voice chat. If that's not classic discrimination against the disabled, I don't know what is.)
However, I will reiterate my initial question: If global chat is to be discouraged because it turns the game into "something else" (what exactly? This is important since I'm assuming most of us have never seen the game to begin with), why should we allow an unrestricted and universal "guild chat" to exist? Why give well-established guilds the privilege of coordinating as much as they please, regardless of location, while ordinary players are denied the same privilege?
That made Warhammer Online look like a dead game, even at peak hours on the most populous servers at launch. But here, not including a global channel would send a strong message that casual players, and the "unguilded" need not bother. So the "community" will be reduced to the usual game-hopping large guilds duking it out between themselves until, their e-peen either reasserted or castrated, they move on to the next game. That is no long-term thinking.
First and foremost: GLOBAL FACTION CHAT is not GLOBAL OPEN CHAT
Please differ these 2. Theres also a difference between GLOBAL LOCKED FACTION and GLOBAL OPEN FACTION (meaning games where you are locked to a faction, and those in wich you can change factions) - althou the difference might be lesser depending on how hard it is to switch factions.
Warhammer is a Faction game, the have GLOBAL FACTION CHAT.
Ah GLOBAL OPEN CHAT in DF will not be the same as the ones in Warhammer by far. Not having global chats in a game like warhammer was stupid, rightfully they fixxed that fast.
If you insist on bringing Warhammer in to compare with, compare it to a warhammer chat that was global and let both factions talk in it (and understand eachother ofcourse). Couse thats what a global open chat in DF will be like. A chat all sides of any fight/war can talk in.
Secondly: ill give you an examples of how a community and the feeling of exploring/adventuring is with the not having and having a OPEN GLOBAL CHAT.
Lineage 2 and AoC.
If you havent played both games at there peak times (talking C1-C4 of L2 before the dualbox went rampant, and first months in AoC) its very hard to explain. But would like to hear from any player that has played this and could say to me with a straight face that there was no difference in the feeling of meeting people in the open, the community etc.
The difference is very very huuuge. I know it might be hard to believe. And yes its largly thanks to the chatsystems.
Ill do a bad try to give an ounche of the feeling. (i suck at this hehehe)
Imagine the scenario walking in to the area Lost Forest, its an area of high level monsters that you know can be soloed and or duoed (a area for small parties/good soloclasses). Therefor you also know there are usually a good number of other adventurers in here, and your clan is at war with a few clans already.
Now in scenario one the first thing you see is 2 names you recognise amongs another 36 ppl smacktalking/chatting/lfg in the global region chat, one is a name of a neutral friend you know that is talking shit to the other person you know that is an anemie of your clan. You instantly know that they are in the area by there talking and by the looks of it your enemie player in the chat is not alone there (your neutral friend seems to talk as he was ganked by a squad).
What do you do from here on? the forest has probably more then one enemie, if not directly in it, they are closeby in the region - your neutral friend would probably remember you from your party the day before and answer more questions on the situation......
Scenario 2: theres 2 ppl closeby somewhere talking in yell LF partner to duo with, the rest of the forest is as usual very mysterious.
Do you press on... ? (ofcourse the same ppl are in there but theres noway you know that since they are talking in yell/say/pm chat wich wont reach you unthil you are within there vicinity)
It probably sounds stupid, but atleast i think it can give you an idea of how the difference can be in some occasion atleast.
Global Chat gives you "birds eyes" - youll know alot before its even comming. Guild Chat might be thought of as similar, but at most youll get scout reports in there - unless its a reeeaally big guild and everyone is doing there party chatting in the guildchat
.
The next step from global chat would be a "/who area" command in that sense.
Lastly Quote in green:
Why give well-established guilds the privilege of coordinating as much as they please, regardless of location, while ordinary players are denied the same privilege?
Thats one of the privilages of having a guild, it will be organised. And in a game like this, its meant to be guild heavy. And a guild is nothing thats out of reach for ordinary players. Most guilds are run and filled by ordinary players. And non-guild players can use friendlists, ask friends in other guilds to send message out, use raid channels, party channels. Or simply yell in player hubbs. But i doubt players who want nothing to do with guilds and just play solo to play a game like DF, and if they do they will do so knowing the challanges it provides (thats probably a reason why they enjoy it).
There are pros and places for other chatsystems then the ones used in Wow/WAR/EQ. There are cons for global chatting, but there are many pros too. Depending on the game, one option might be better then the other. For WAR it was a nobrainer, Global faction chat was a must!.
P.S - Sorry for the CAPs heavy text. Im not trying to yell, just naming the differences abit.
FagerCraft - Feeding the trolls on mmorpg.com since 2005.
again the solution, enemy race global chat comes off as unrecongizble gibberish... hence it could look like this example: "Articchaoz: @#%@%%%@!" to those of different races. Under the RFonline global chat mechanic, you can't have spies give away any positioning"
Basically you would only understand your race's chat... It would still be important to give a global chat out to your race say if you needed a city to be defended, and if DF would have done it like in RFO global chat would not be a problem....
Besides, they might as well put in global chat as people in RFO got around that by using vent to spy in enemy torritories. The "racefilter" in RFO nor the lack of Global Chat in DF will not stop people who decide to have 2 accounts, and use vent to spy on the enemie races.
The difference is DFO is not a FvF game. It has factions, but you are not locked to them - guilds with players from all factions will be supported and can be competetive.
Spying will never be able to replace global chat, it can circumvent ingame racial barriers - but thats different, very different. Unless there are like ventrilo servers you automaticly join when entering a zone
FagerCraft - Feeding the trolls on mmorpg.com since 2005.
again the solution, enemy race global chat comes off as unrecongizble gibberish... hence it could look like this example: "Articchaoz: @#%@%%%@!" to those of different races. Under the RFonline global chat mechanic, you can't have spies give away any positioning"
Basically you would only understand your race's chat... It would still be important to give a global chat out to your race say if you needed a city to be defended, and if DF would have done it like in RFO global chat would not be a problem....
Besides, they might as well put in global chat as people in RFO got around that by using vent to spy in enemy torritories. The "racefilter" in RFO nor the lack of Global Chat in DF will not stop people who decide to have 2 accounts, and use vent to spy on the enemie races.
The difference is DFO is not a FvF game. It has factions, but you are not locked to them - guilds with players from all factions will be supported and can be competetive.
Spying will never be able to replace global chat, it can circumvent ingame racial barriers - but thats different, very different. Unless there are like ventrilo servers you automaticly join when entering a zone
RvR or FvF same diff, Chat over mass distance is for the damn birds, and lazy people.
If you get ganked then you should not have been there in the first place, (been told that 1000 times)
and yes i hate PvP worse than pissing into the wind when it's 40 below. RvR is a different matter and so is FvF, different wind to this to, one i don't mind. Chat should be gone out of game altogeather, beer drinking only allowed and drunken chatter... Nuff said.... LMAO... saucie bastage today arent I....
Amazing post. You, like many supporters of Global Chat, have the same valid reasoning for said feature.
I still stand by the point that I was trying to make though, which wasn't covered in your post: Removing Global/Regional Chat will create an environment where players will search for each other, form trade/meeting areas and come together avatar to avatar. This leads to more interaction between strangers, which makes the game more enjoyable.
Imagine in a conventional MMO, when someone has a question and they are out adventuring, they simply ask their question in chat and receive their answer from someone, then both people and any observers carry on their way.
Now imagine without this long range chat, the player will search for other players to answer their question. After finding some players who may or may not have the answer, they start to talk, decide to go on an adventure, on observer in close proximity asks to join, or maybe he finds someone but they are being attacked by a ferocious monster and the player decides to help him. The likelyhood of this happening on accident is much higher with this kind of system and it is truly a great experience because it's so unexpected.
A had many experiences like this in UO (no global/regional) chat. I remember one time (keep in mind I was 14...ish), before I could tame horses, someone had abandoned their horse on the side of the road by the cave I mined frequently. I decided to try and tame it, give it apples and crap to gain its favor. I would come back every hour or so and try again (because I didn't understand taming). One time I came back and found the horse being attacked by a giant Ettin. I rushed to the horses rescue, hoping it would favor me once I had defeated the Ettin, but there was no way my miner could take down that ettin. I struggled for a long time, eventually ran out of stamina, the horse died and I was going to die. I had no way to contact anyone, no way to escape...
Out of nowhere, some dude walks on by, sees me there fighting for my life and jumps in to save me. It was one of the most awesome MMO experiences I've ever had. I think the pleasant surprise was what I liked about it so much. It was unpredictable. If I had global chat to shout out for help, it would've been an okay experience, but not nearly as exciting.
Sorry for the wall of text, I'm trying to make a point.
Why isn't this retardism spewing thread not closed yet? All those walls of text are friggin useless because OP's post is misleading. There IS global chat, but only three channels - /guild /party and /pm. Nothing has been said about lack of local chat channels like /zone-general /zone-trade /say /yell etc etc. Sheesh.
This. Not only that, a global chat channel borders on absolute retardation with each world server capable of supporting 10,000 players simlultaneously, where the map takes 8 hours to run from corner to corner of the main island.