Bad marketing and release strategy. They really over-estimated the fan response to the game right out of the gates. Too many servers divided the opening day population and spread the numbers too thin. Players seeing less people will wait patiently for a few weeks then take off. Mythic thought they'd get more people on day one and prepared for that. But instead of preparing the people committed to playing the game to possibly make an alternate server selection, they simply let people flood into the smallest corner. Of course then comes server consolidation, and the meat-heads start screaming at the top of their lungs that the game has failed. It is too bad that all of these programming and marketing geniuses waste their time trolling boards.
Servers were packed the first few weeks. Mythic had to quickly add more servers after launch to keep up with demand. It wasn't like the servers were always empty. That was the result of people leaving the game.
How does a game go from record setting sales mmo release, to the fastest server mergers in mmo history?
To answer the original posters question: Warhammer was released unfinished. From balance to disjointed gameplay to lack of finish, it just did not accomplish what it set out to do.
Yeah, keep holding "fastest server merges in MMO history" over your head like a champ. If you don't know why they merged the servers, and why it's so important for WAR, you won't see that Mythic did the right thing. Yes, people left as a result of the drama roller coaster of "ZOMG I QUIT MAH EXPECTATIONS WAS TOO HIGH" of ANY MMO launch. Now they're slowly coming back, just like ANY (half decent) MMO.
WAR didn't fail. WAR was released too early, in my opinion. But that doesn't mean it fails. It means it needs work. I believe another 4-6 months of development would've done a world of good, BUT with Mythic's patches so far they show they're doing a really good job and are determined to improve the game.
What are you talking about ? There is more players is WAR now then there ever was. Tier 1 area are more populated ( on our server anyways ) with brand new players then ever ( and that's new players to the game, no alts no transfers ).
If you plan to talk about something at least talk about something you have a clue about :P Back to your cave troll.
Originally posted by Bruticus_XI Yeah, keep holding "fastest server merges in MMO history" over your head like a champ. If you don't know why they merged the servers, and why it's so important for WAR, you won't see that Mythic did the right thing. Yes, people left as a result of the drama roller coaster of "ZOMG I QUIT MAH EXPECTATIONS WAS TOO HIGH" of ANY MMO launch. Now they're slowly coming back, just like ANY (half decent) MMO. WAR didn't fail. WAR was released too early, in my opinion. But that doesn't mean it fails. It means it needs work. I believe another 4-6 months of development would've done a world of good, BUT with Mythic's patches so far they show they're doing a really good job and are determined to improve the game.
I fully understand why Mythic did server mergers and I know it was the right thing to do. I have even applauded them for taking the right actions when it wasn't good for publicity sake. Their ability to react to problems has been pretty good.
Peoples expectations were high, because Mythic couldn't shut their F'n mouths about the game and what rock gods they were. Waaaghhh this and Waaaagh that. Don't blame players for expecting a finished game and not sticking around to pay a fee when it didn't deliver. I very much agree with you that Warhammer was released to early. It wasn't tested or improved upon from whatever testing was done. I also agree that had the game waited 4-6 more months it may not have lost the vast majority of people that tried the game out. Whoever made that decision cost their company untold millions.
Warhammer isn't a complete failure, but it sure is a floop in terms of what it could and should be. The game isn't going to die, but it isn't going to spring back to life either. Maybe I see things differently when I log in next, but I don't expect it to.
Bad marketing and release strategy. They really over-estimated the fan response to the game right out of the gates. Too many servers divided the opening day population and spread the numbers too thin. Players seeing less people will wait patiently for a few weeks then take off. Mythic thought they'd get more people on day one and prepared for that. But instead of preparing the people committed to playing the game to possibly make an alternate server selection, they simply let people flood into the smallest corner. Of course then comes server consolidation, and the meat-heads start screaming at the top of their lungs that the game has failed. It is too bad that all of these programming and marketing geniuses waste their time trolling boards.
Servers were packed the first few weeks. Mythic had to quickly add more servers after launch to keep up with demand. It wasn't like the servers were always empty. That was the result of people leaving the game.
How does a game go from record setting sales mmo release, to the fastest server mergers in mmo history?
To answer the original posters question: Warhammer was released unfinished. From balance to disjointed gameplay to lack of finish, it just did not accomplish what it set out to do.
This is an absolute fabrication my friend. The servers were not packed. You had a good portion of medium/medium and medium/light servers and the rest were light/light.
The party never got started on some of the launch day servers so the overall count was reduced.
Lets be real big guy, WAR being the fastest selling is only on the count that includes sales to vendors. I really like this game, but it is nothing so fantastic that its going to re-establish a trend in the market. I am a realist. It has not flopped, but it ain't number 1.
Some people have this go hard or go home attitude, which is fine until they have to accept the lesser victory. In this case the game doesn't have millions of people playing it, but it is still running strong and is fun for a good number of people.
Tabula Rasa is a flop, SWG/NGE flopped, DnL flopped, Vanguard flopped, AOC flopped. Of the ones I just stated only VG and AOC have a shot at making amends with the people that played before. WAR is going to continue to lose people and bring people in at the same time until they either break through the ceiling or enter a holding pattern with a few hundred thousand accounts. Either way, its not bad for an mmo.
Originally posted by Bruticus_XI Yeah, keep holding "fastest server merges in MMO history" over your head like a champ. If you don't know why they merged the servers, and why it's so important for WAR, you won't see that Mythic did the right thing. Yes, people left as a result of the drama roller coaster of "ZOMG I QUIT MAH EXPECTATIONS WAS TOO HIGH" of ANY MMO launch. Now they're slowly coming back, just like ANY (half decent) MMO. WAR didn't fail. WAR was released too early, in my opinion. But that doesn't mean it fails. It means it needs work. I believe another 4-6 months of development would've done a world of good, BUT with Mythic's patches so far they show they're doing a really good job and are determined to improve the game.
I fully understand why Mythic did server mergers and I know it was the right thing to do. I have even applauded them for taking the right actions when it wasn't good for publicity sake. Their ability to react to problems has been pretty good.
Peoples expectations were high, because Mythic couldn't shut their F'n mouths about the game and what rock gods they were. Waaaghhh this and Waaaagh that. Don't blame players for expecting a finished game and not sticking around to pay a fee when it didn't deliver. I very much agree with you that Warhammer was released to early. It wasn't tested or improved upon from whatever testing was done. I also agree that had the game waited 4-6 more months it may not have lost the vast majority of people that tried the game out. Whoever made that decision cost their company untold millions.
Warhammer isn't a complete failure, but it sure is a floop in terms of what it could and should be. The game isn't going to die, but it isn't going to spring back to life either. Maybe I see things differently when I log in next, but I don't expect it to.
Originally posted by Bruticus_XI Yeah, keep holding "fastest server merges in MMO history" over your head like a champ. If you don't know why they merged the servers, and why it's so important for WAR, you won't see that Mythic did the right thing. Yes, people left as a result of the drama roller coaster of "ZOMG I QUIT MAH EXPECTATIONS WAS TOO HIGH" of ANY MMO launch. Now they're slowly coming back, just like ANY (half decent) MMO. WAR didn't fail. WAR was released too early, in my opinion. But that doesn't mean it fails. It means it needs work. I believe another 4-6 months of development would've done a world of good, BUT with Mythic's patches so far they show they're doing a really good job and are determined to improve the game.
I fully understand why Mythic did server mergers and I know it was the right thing to do. I have even applauded them for taking the right actions when it wasn't good for publicity sake. Their ability to react to problems has been pretty good.
Peoples expectations were high, because Mythic couldn't shut their F'n mouths about the game and what rock gods they were. Waaaghhh this and Waaaagh that. Don't blame players for expecting a finished game and not sticking around to pay a fee when it didn't deliver. I very much agree with you that Warhammer was released to early. It wasn't tested or improved upon from whatever testing was done. I also agree that had the game waited 4-6 more months it may not have lost the vast majority of people that tried the game out. Whoever made that decision cost their company untold millions.
Warhammer isn't a complete failure, but it sure is a floop in terms of what it could and should be. The game isn't going to die, but it isn't going to spring back to life either. Maybe I see things differently when I log in next, but I don't expect it to.
I have a higher opinion of the game in its current state than you, but I agree that it's not what I would call *great* and it *could have been* great if they spent more time on it. Perhaps it will get there, but I don't really know what to expect. My friends and I speculate that it was released too early because of EA - they're hurting a bit financially, and they wanted the box sales. Big mistake, they had a month to grab people before the WoW expansion, and they lost a lot of subscribers because of that. I think Mythic was perhaps too ambitious as well, and they just couldn't get the game done on time the way they envisioned it. So they released it in a playable state, and are slowly trying to build the game into what they originally wanted. The game has gotten better, but I hear that Tier 4 still has server crashes, and they're going to have to fix that soon or they won't hold end-game players. I haven't logged in very much lately as my friends and I have been spending quality time in Moria, but when I do log in I usually have a lot of fun, so I'll stick around for the forseeable future anyway. There is so much potential in an RvR MMO, so I sure hope they can get there.
What are you talking about ? There is more players is WAR now then there ever was. Tier 1 area are more populated ( on our server anyways ) with brand new players then ever ( and that's new players to the game, no alts no transfers ). If you plan to talk about something at least talk about something you have a clue about :P Back to your cave troll.
What are you talking about ? There is more players is WAR now then there ever was. Tier 1 area are more populated ( on our server anyways ) with brand new players then ever ( and that's new players to the game, no alts no transfers ).
Didn't they once have 800k subscriptions the first month? So are you saying they now have more than that? I wonder why Mythic hasn't officially announced that yet; more players in Warhammer than there ever was...
Oh well, this is definitely news to me that they now have over 800k subscriptions.
Originally posted by Raiz1 This is an absolute fabrication my friend. The servers were not packed. You had a good portion of medium/medium and medium/light servers and the rest were light/light. The party never got started on some of the launch day servers so the overall count was reduced. Lets be real big guy, WAR being the fastest selling is only on the count that includes sales to vendors. I really like this game, but it is nothing so fantastic that its going to re-establish a trend in the market. I am a realist. It has not flopped, but it ain't number 1. Some people have this go hard or go home attitude, which is fine until they have to accept the lesser victory. In this case the game doesn't have millions of people playing it, but it is still running strong and is fun for a good number of people. Tabula Rasa is a flop, SWG/NGE flopped, DnL flopped, Vanguard flopped, AOC flopped. Of the ones I just stated only VG and AOC have a shot at making amends with the people that played before. WAR is going to continue to lose people and bring people in at the same time until they either break through the ceiling or enter a holding pattern with a few hundred thousand accounts. Either way, its not bad for an mmo.
Were you even around at release? Many servers had ques due to over population. Many servers were heavy/heavy or heavy/med. Mythic even stated somewhere around 500-800k subscribers during the first and second month of the game. This isn't some fabrication about copies sold to stores. The players were there at release.
Those empty servers you talk about didn't happen until weeks after release. They emptied out rather fast, so perhaps that is why you think the game wasn't well populated at the start.
When the best thing you can say about an mmo is "its not bad" then you half heartedly admit the short coming. Everything about this game was huge, from the size of the dev team to the company backing it to the hype surrounding it. Even the game makers were predicting millions of subscribers. Just a couple months after release and the game was hemmoraging subscribers at a staggering rate.
The problem was not empty servers, that was a result. A game can be a flop, but also not die. It may not be a complete failure, but it still failed to achieve its expectations.
Originally posted by Raiz1 This is an absolute fabrication my friend. The servers were not packed. You had a good portion of medium/medium and medium/light servers and the rest were light/light. The party never got started on some of the launch day servers so the overall count was reduced. Lets be real big guy, WAR being the fastest selling is only on the count that includes sales to vendors. I really like this game, but it is nothing so fantastic that its going to re-establish a trend in the market. I am a realist. It has not flopped, but it ain't number 1. Some people have this go hard or go home attitude, which is fine until they have to accept the lesser victory. In this case the game doesn't have millions of people playing it, but it is still running strong and is fun for a good number of people. Tabula Rasa is a flop, SWG/NGE flopped, DnL flopped, Vanguard flopped, AOC flopped. Of the ones I just stated only VG and AOC have a shot at making amends with the people that played before. WAR is going to continue to lose people and bring people in at the same time until they either break through the ceiling or enter a holding pattern with a few hundred thousand accounts. Either way, its not bad for an mmo.
Were you even around at release? Many servers had ques due to over population. Many servers were heavy/heavy or heavy/med. Mythic even stated somewhere around 500-800k subscribers during the first and second month of the game. This isn't some fabrication about copies sold to stores. The players were there at release.
Those empty servers you talk about didn't happen until weeks after release. They emptied out rather fast, so perhaps that is why you think the game wasn't well populated at the start.
When the best thing you can say about an mmo is "its not bad" then you half heartedly admit the short coming. Everything about this game was huge, from the size of the dev team to the company backing it to the hype surrounding it. Even the game makers were predicting millions of subscribers. Just a couple months after release and the game was hemmoraging subscribers at a staggering rate.
The problem was not empty servers, that was a result. A game can be a flop, but also not die. It may not be a complete failure, but it still failed to achieve its expectations.
I noted some figures here for EU servers on some early dates:
On Sep 23: at 08.PM Destruction 20 servers locked / Order 8 servers locked. Only 5 servers on low.low
On Sep 28: at 09 PM Destruction 17 servers locked/ Order 6 servers locked. Only 6 servers on low/low.
At that time there were ... 63 EU servers.
On Sep 30th, last time I could check it already began to drop. At prime time it was 9 / 4 servers locked.
Since then WAR "lost" around 50% of its accessable EU servers. With a 50% reduction in servers that would only mean the other servers should have been full.
But they are not. War lost at least 50% of its player base playing at the end of September. Just do the maths.
Worse even, because new players kept coming in, meaning the retention rate must be far worse....
For those using Xfire: at the end of September the ratio between War and Wow players was 6 to 1. Meaning 6 XFire players of Wow for 1 in War.
That ratio is now 23 to 1. Meaning 23 Xfire players of Wow to 1 in War.
Just divide 5 Million western players by 23 and you have a very rough idea of current War players/ 217 K.
Now calculate how many of those 217 K are still players of the launch period...and you'll see future is not that bright in the coming calm spring days (with the imminent launch of DF and Aion).
EA will pull the plug at under 200K. they said that at launch btw.
250k-350K was needed to reach break even point. This thing DID fail, no doubt about that.
Originally posted by Raiz1 This is an absolute fabrication my friend. The servers were not packed. You had a good portion of medium/medium and medium/light servers and the rest were light/light. The party never got started on some of the launch day servers so the overall count was reduced. Lets be real big guy, WAR being the fastest selling is only on the count that includes sales to vendors. I really like this game, but it is nothing so fantastic that its going to re-establish a trend in the market. I am a realist. It has not flopped, but it ain't number 1. Some people have this go hard or go home attitude, which is fine until they have to accept the lesser victory. In this case the game doesn't have millions of people playing it, but it is still running strong and is fun for a good number of people. Tabula Rasa is a flop, SWG/NGE flopped, DnL flopped, Vanguard flopped, AOC flopped. Of the ones I just stated only VG and AOC have a shot at making amends with the people that played before. WAR is going to continue to lose people and bring people in at the same time until they either break through the ceiling or enter a holding pattern with a few hundred thousand accounts. Either way, its not bad for an mmo.
Were you even around at release? Many servers had ques due to over population. Many servers were heavy/heavy or heavy/med. Mythic even stated somewhere around 500-800k subscribers during the first and second month of the game. This isn't some fabrication about copies sold to stores. The players were there at release.
Those empty servers you talk about didn't happen until weeks after release. They emptied out rather fast, so perhaps that is why you think the game wasn't well populated at the start.
When the best thing you can say about an mmo is "its not bad" then you half heartedly admit the short coming. Everything about this game was huge, from the size of the dev team to the company backing it to the hype surrounding it. Even the game makers were predicting millions of subscribers. Just a couple months after release and the game was hemmoraging subscribers at a staggering rate.
The problem was not empty servers, that was a result. A game can be a flop, but also not die. It may not be a complete failure, but it still failed to achieve its expectations.
I noted some figures here for EU servers on some early dates:
On Sep 23: at 08.PM Destruction 20 servers locked / Order 8 servers locked. Only 5 servers on low.low
On Sep 28: at 09 PM Destruction 17 servers locked/ Order 6 servers locked. Only 6 servers on low/low.
At that time there were ... 63 EU servers.
On Sep 30th, last time I could check it already began to drop. At prime time it was 9 / 4 servers locked.
Since then WAR "lost" around 50% of its accessable EU servers. With a 50% reduction in servers that would only mean the other servers should have been full.
But they are not. War lost at least 50% of its player base playing at the end of September. Just do the maths.
Worse even, because new players kept coming in, meaning the retention rate must be far worse....
For those using Xfire: at the end of September the ratio between War and Wow players was 6 to 1. Meaning 6 XFire players of Wow for 1 in War.
That ratio is now 23 to 1. Meaning 23 Xfire players of Wow to 1 in War.
Just divide 5 Million western players by 23 and you have a very rough idea of current War players/ 217 K.
Now calculate how many of those 217 K are still players of the launch period...and you'll see future is not that bright in the coming calm spring days (with the imminent launch of DF and Aion).
EA will pull the plug at under 200K. they said that at launch btw.
250k-350K was needed to reach break even point. This thing DID fail, no doubt about that.
Since you are talking about EU servers and estimate that there are approx 217,000 EU players, one could estimate that since War is doing better in the US, it would have more players, So it is conceivable using your model to estimate that the total amount of War players could easily be between or exceed 500k and 600k players.
If this is not what you are saying, you need to parse you information better.
WAR is a great success, I have no idea why you think it failed. It delivered on exactly what it said it would. It delivered a fairly solid game, everything it was advertised to be. Then after the initial fallout of MMO jumpers, it settled at an extremely high sub rate.
it wasn't enough like DOAC to appeal to those fans yet not different enough from WOW to draw players from that.
I've played WoW.
Why would I want to play it again?
exactly. companies have this stupid notion that to get millions of subs you must copy WOW.....yet why would someone stop playing wow to play a wow clone with RvR? one day they will learn in order to get that level of success you must make the anti-wow. the polar opposite of wow.
lol, yeah it's called having "unique creativity". something many companies lack... which is the same in the film industry as well. i've noticed a lot of similar tendencies in games now that still plagues the film industry. of course we don't mind a good rip-off movie from time to time, but in a game it's a whole other ball game, if game devs/companies really want to hold onto a fan base and keep them interested they have to learn to really make something unique that will stand out from the crowd. It's ok if they have certain similarities, because WoW is in no way unique, it simply took good aspect of games that where already out and fitted to their RTS game to make a MMO. they have their own style of doing things and plus they already had 3 million plus fans from their RTS game that was a shoe in for huge subs.
But in all honesty you don't have to have a million subs for an MMO to be doing good. 250k + is plenty enough to reward the company with plenty collateral. it's just WoW has set the bar so high on being "top dog" that there aren't many that can garner that sort of fan base. But of course when Bioware or a similar company that is really solid at game developement brings out a new MMO, i'm willing to wager they will yield similar numbers to WoW.
Somewhere near or over 1 million poeople tried Conan in a month or two. The same thing for Warhammer.
That type of momentum is so much larger than anything else seen for mmos, including wow. We can sit around and blame the massive drop off in subscribers on fickle players, but that just hides the truth.
If the games were better, more people would play them. It isn't an issue of games being so great and people just not being able to handle it for some irrational reason. The games just are not cutting it. They have to many issues at release and offer little to no compelling reason for players to make a switch. Even when they are completely burned out of thier previous game.
When a game has packed servers at release and then a few weeks later it struggles to fill 1/3 of those servers then there are massive problems with that game. When the developers patch notes echo the same things players stated as leaving it shows that the problem was the game and not hundreds of thousands pf people.
A few hundred thousand subscribers can be anywhere from a runaway success to a flop. For an indpendant studio to get a few hundred thousand with a tiny budget and small staff is a success. For one of the most exspensive games with one of the largest (if not the) teams and the worlds biggest entertainment software company powering the company, a few hundred thousand isn't that great. In fact Mythic states that was near the break even point for the game.
Some probs i found with WAR was the lack of end player content. Many poeple once they got 50 they rerolled a character a little bit after 50. Theres no great items once 50 u really dont have to work SUPER hard for the really good itmes. The game was based on RvR the scenarios r awsome! loved the scenarios it was one of ur primarly lvling tools and for items. The thing with scenarios is that the que sometimes last hours sometimes not but it does happen but for me on my server it was at least an half n hour and the PvE is well not the best. i find myself after an hour of PvE. And the other thing is the RvR thruthfully its not that great the keeps r more PvE then PvP u can catch a keep with out encountering a single enemy character the only way really of getting PvP is scenarios which take forever! ALSO end game pvp is sweet! but! it doesnt work out. people r rerolling characters,theres not enough people, or nobody wins. This game has great ideas but it need some help. U can disagree with me but plz dont be rude this is just my opinion
I think WAR flopped (yeah thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it) for a load of reasons. It tried to appeal to such a wide range of players by dividing itself into three different types of game which worked independantly of each other and ended up splitting up the player population which was already severely split up by the fact that players were funneled into the tier relative to their level. So the fragmented player base could play...... Warhammer the PvE game Incredibly easy and very bland. I thought WoW was the king of easy gaming but WAR actually managed to simplify it even further. They really were trying to appeal to EVERYONE by making it so simplistic that absolutely anyone could play it including the extremely young and the mentally retarded. After a little while I just gave up reading the quest text because it was just meaningless drivel and was completely uneccessary for me to complete the quests. Click NPC, accept quest, go to glowing red spot on map, kill easy target/click object, walk back and select boring reward. Next. The monster AI was dreadful as everyone is aware so not only was the game simplistic but the monsters didnt react properly at all and never helped each other even when their mates were attacked right next to them. As Mythic so desperately wanted to make their game like WoW they could have at least copied this part properly. Warhammer the mini-battle game This was actually fun at first but it got very boring very quickly. The battlegrounds (oh lets call them scenarios so that it wont look too much like we have copied WoWs battlegrounds idea.....yeah whatever) were very small and limited and after I had seen the same bloody battleground for the billionth time I just couldnt be bothered with it any more. Also the fact that the classes were so dull and uninspired really didnt help much. Although WoW has less battelgrounds than WAR they are definately a lot more fun in my opinion. In fact I enjoy the PvP in WoW (even with the twink issue) a lot more than WAR which is sad really considering it is supposed to be WARs selling point. Also because the battlegrounds were easily accessible from anywhere it obviously led to the scenario which everyone is aware of in which the players just simply leveled up in scenarios only because the PvE was boring and it took too long to find any decent battles in the open RvR areas. Warhammer the open RvR game Mythic plonked a PvP playpen into each tier where the players could fight meaningless battles and called it open RvR. Yeah whatever Mythic. There really is no incentive for even bothering with trying to take a keep other than the fact that you get to kill other players which is fun for a while. Mythic could have done so much with this aspect of the game but they just didnt bother which was such a shame. Unfortunately many people need more of a reason to do something that they could be doing for free in various other PvP games. This is an mmorpg so simply saying "Go on players......go and fight each other.....its fun!" just isnt good enough. The fact that Mythic actually forgot to make the open RvR interesting and meaningful meant that they were empty half the time because people just couldnt be bothered with it. I get more meaningful PvP battles in the Battlefield games. So you take over a keep......and? Whats next? Oh thats right......thats it! The fact that Mythic had to throw stupid meaningless rewards at players to entice them into the open RvR areas said it all about WARs terrible game design. How about putting meaningful objectives and goals into the game which the players HAD to fight over to make progress through the game or is that too much for you to comprehend Mythic? Oh no no we cant have that because then you wouldnt be appealing to EVERYONE then would you........geez what a joke! Basicly Warhammer Online is so casual-friendly that it just didnt feel worth playing to me. I like to feel immersed in my games but unfortunately with WAR I just couldnt help but see through its weak game design at every turn. I would see a keep that was taken by the enemy and yet I knew it didnt matter if I tried to take it back or not so I just ignored it and moved on. All the items I picked up looked the same and there wasnt anything I hadnt already seen in WoW anyway. The story was just completely uninteresting and didnt make me feel like I was in the gritty Warhammer world at all. I was extremely limited in the ways in which I could develop my sorry excuse for a "character" - my character was identical to every other character of the same class. I think the only thing it managed to achieve with any vague level of success was its public quests as they were quite a good idea but unfortunately Mythic just didnt bother to do anything interesting with the idea. They had plenty of opportunity to force the opposing factions to clash with each other in interesting ways but it hardly ever occurred. Instead it was nearly always the same old "kill a billion of these" over and over again just to farm the rewards. Boring. Warhammer is simply a space filler for bored mmo players as they wait for a better game to come along......and quite a few promising titles are on their way. I cant see Warhammer doing particularly well in the future. As Tyvolus mentioned above somewhere this actually isnt a good thing because a failed game leads to less games being made in the future. For this reason I'm a bit annoyed with Mythic because their poor product hasnt helped the genre at all. They shouldnt have focused so heavily on trying to cash in on WoWs success and should have instead focused on simply making a good game.
This game could have been a healthy niche game but Mythic wanted to have a WoW 2.0.People were expecting a true Warhammer game and Mythic failed in doing that...so all we have is a BORING sub WoW game with lame animation and bad coding.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
This game could have been a healthy niche game but Mythic wanted to have a WoW 2.0.People were expecting a true Warhammer game and Mythic failed in doing that...so all we have is a BORING sub WoW game with lame animation and bad coding.
There is a lot of truth in this statement and many games are guilty of it.
If Mythic had just made a true ORvR pvp game with proper objectives making it worthwhile, do you know how big this game WOULD have been? Hundreds of thousands signed on because given their history with DAoC, they thought this was going to be better. Not DAoC 2, but a purer refinement. Instead, Mythic went all Pop 40 on its base.
Kind of like a restaurant famous for a really HOT sauce on their ribs. Then they convert to a national chain but tame the hotness down because they know everyone won't like real hot, and they want to get ALL the money, not some. So the people who were waiting for the hotness (quite a bit still) go there to eat and almost puke because its now Weaksauce McWimpy. It says a lot when the Mythic PvP game people want to play is not the game they just made 4 months ago, but the one they made eight YEARS ago or nothing. They simply won't trudge through the game for long.
There has been a lot said about Darkfall.. it might/might not exist/release etc. But they have one big thing going for them.
If they ARE able to get that game made EXACTLY as they have been saying it's going to be made, they will never want for players. People cry about the ganking, but Adventurine says they aren't changing it, so people buying it will get exactly what they asked for. If they do that, that's how you keep customers. Offering theme park buffets doesn't do it, especially when the food is not really that great.
Mythic was a Jack of all Trades here. They could have been the Chicago Chop House Steakhouse or the Peter Lugar Steakhouse in NYC. Instead, they aspired to be... the Ponderosa/Bonanza chain.
I converted to WoW, AFTER playing WAR. My first and most favorite game was DAOC; I played it for years before leaving for SWG in 2005. That's my background, so here's my opinion on why WAR didn't achieve what it was aiming for.
First and foremost, they started by puting a bad taste in the players mouths by cutting 4 cities and 4 classes. Secondly, the game is shallow in comparison to WoW (the competition). All WAR offers that has any resemblance of quality is their RvR, but even then, WoW does better with Wintergrasp and Sands of the Ancients. Siege is 10x better in WoW than in WAR and PvP in the RvR area is a lot more fun. Classes on a 1v1 basis have a lot better chance at doing well, plus there's the tenacity buff, which puts the outnumbered side on an even playing field. To top this off, the PvE experience is best in class, so WAR flopped, because it wasn't better than the competition. The sad part is that WAR's RvR is worse than WoW's RvR.
Lastly, WAR has turned into a game that is best played like an FPS game, except with gear progression. The majority of people I ran into on Pheonix Throne only PvPed and bought Reknown Gear. Hardly anyone paid any attention to the PvE areas. I actually like the FPS games better if all I'm going to do is PvP. At least in FPS games, I am on a level playing field and only my skill at the game matters, not the level, class, or the gear I'm wearing. (Note: Not much different in WoW, except driving siege vehicles around is fun, and classes are balanced 1v1).
I really wish Mythic didn't waste their time on WAR and instead created an updated DAoC. Now that would have made me happy!
Being that I got my start and experience in DAoC, I believe I have a right to say that balancing realm versus realm is a mistake. The developers can never tell which classes will be played more than others, and the paper>rock>scissors approach is outdated. Players want to be able to compete, no matter who decided to que up for scenarios or walk onto the RvR battlefield.
P.S. - I hate WoW PvP, so that's saying something about WAR's dull RvR.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Warhammer isn't a complete failure, but it sure is a floop in terms of what it could and should be. The game isn't going to die, but it isn't going to spring back to life either. Maybe I see things differently when I log in next, but I don't expect it to.
I agree. WAR hasn't flopped its just not easy enough for most WOW players (one button kills) to have that kind of population. The graphics also are not cartoon enough to draw the kids that can convince "Mommy and Daddy" to let them play. If you could get a hold of the number of WOW players over 21 you would be amazed about how many kids play. WAR is more for adults and takes thinking how to over throw your opponent. Not just "arcane spam" or "moonfire spam" them to death. WAR will never have the pop of WOW and that keeps the talented PVP people happy. The last thing I want is easy kills everywhere like in WOW. I don't know about everyone else but I like to be chalenged in PvP and remember the old days when PvP was based on skill and not the gear you have. WAR Gives us that. I want to see a lvl 70 take a lvl 80 in WOW. It will never happen (no matter how good you are) do to gear based crap. WAR I do that same thing all day. They should merge the servers so that we can have more Open RvR going with the new gear that was just released. The WAR story line is awesome (Just like WOW's was in the begining).
What kind of silly comments. PvP in War? With that clunky, unresponsive and laggy game play. Come on....
War lacks the polish of Wow classes. As a matter of fact where ARE the talent settings of War?
Can I make a War class and fill in a tank, a healer and a full Dps class in ONE character please. No of course not. Wow is so much more powerful and polished than War is. In fact even comparing the two is a laugh.
War as a PvP game is the laughing stock of MMORPG's.
Now give me your personal mail and I will show you 3(!) recent screen shots of my level 70 character killing 3 different level 80's in a duel. OK mine was 80% brutal geared and those guys were "levelers", but one of them even was on Nax already. And no group intervened.
So skill primes gear in Wow.
Where are the rated PvP sets in War? , where is the balance? , what kind of silly game are you playing where lag and clunky combat moves are more important than skill?
Oh and since every Wow class is represented in the top world arena competitions, this is ample proof there is balance or else you wouldn't have all classes in that top.
There isn't even a duel mode in Warhammer, because dueling would be ridiculous in showing off just how much nonsens is put into that game.
Gratz, you win bigest fail poster of this thread.
Just about everythign you said was wrong , dumb, or just beyond discription
Every class have 3 lines.
If i made a game where ca class could, heal, tank , dps , cc, and blow bubbles from you know where would that mean my classes are more "polished" ? In your world yes, in reality no.
Wow is the laugh stock of pve and pve mmorpgs. Wow see how i did that i just made a statement +2 skillz to me. (does ithe stament have any value . . . no).
Now log on your 70 and ill beat him 100 times out of 100 with my 80. I promise you'll never get close. So maybe skill does matter then agian if i fight a level 20 Whitelion with my level 11 dok in orvr and i beat him does that mean war also take skill? (i did this not 1 hour ago). Ps dueling with your rouges vs some class noob doesn't makes u coolz (it makes the class op).
Anyone one will tell you , class make up > equipment> skill in WoW . Anyoen who does not agree has a 1500 rating and talks about getting better gear, i mean skills, i mean better partners.
About lag , have you played wow at all ever in the last 3 months?
Lets see wintergrasp is never laggy right? (more laggy than 200-400 people on the screen in WAR BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS).
Lets see about 4-5 nights out of 7 are not 25 man raidable or are but just barely due to the 7-25 sec. action fire lag. (wow we are talking about).
Look at your top classes again lets see 50% of all people in 2v2 teams are pallies 70% of top 2v2 classes are pallies. Sure all equal here (your so busted here btw, i eman you say one thign but the reality proves your wrong like everytime its amazing). PS the other 10% are dEath nighs
In 2v2 and 3v3 pallies and death knight combos are all over the top ranks. (Never looked at others)
There isn't duel mode in war becuase you don't go around hugging the opposite side their your enemies, you fight thme not each other. Futhermore, WAR is balanced around team play not individual play, amking duels pointless. Where as all wow really has is duels and 3v3 and 5v5 duels for its pvp system, sure there is open world and bgs but they are pointless and done quite awfully.
Normally, i try to adress points nice like or at least with cold logic, however, your 100% wrong and dumb post here has brought out the wrost in me and well that is what you get for making a post like that.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Because the open RvR is flawed in it's core! It's too static, too linear and becomes boring real fast!
When you have done a keep siege or defense in Tier 2. Well Tier 3 and Tier 4 aren't any different, exept for the extra wall that's introduced in the Tier 3 ones.
Every darn keep has basically the same layout. And when you have a very good balanced WB defending the only staircase in a keep. Then there is no way any force is going to take over that keep!
You either show up with such a large zerg force so you can outlag the defenders and be lucky to pull the keep lord to the terrace and kill him quickly.
That's basically the only tactic there is and being used from Tier2 all the way to Tier4.
Siege weapons, except for the Ram are completely pointless, because your bound to static and mostly awfully placed siege pads! Casters do a far better job lol.
My very active guild and alliance has basically died out in the last few weeks, because more and more of them who managed to grind their way into Tier 4 got bored out of their skull when they started participating in Tier 4 open RvR and canceled their subscription!
And as of yesterday I joined them and canceled too. As I have no faith left in Mythic to get the game around!
There is so much wrong with the open RvR system, it's not even funny anymore.
It will need a complete revamp, and seeing what so called improvements they have made with the last patches, then we won't have to expect it!
And don't even get me started on Fortress Sieges. A perfect example of how their game engine and server infrastructure sucks big time and can't handle the player load in such large battles! So much for largescale RvR!
Me and many many others are just severely dissapointed that this turd of an Open RvR has come out of the hands of the same Studio that delivered us DAoC! It's just baffling!
And what else is there to do? PVE? It's one of the worst of any MMO and even more of a boring grind.
PQ's are okay, but soon after you've done a couple you'll see they are nothing more then a disguised Rep grind!
So you are left with Scenarios. Mini BG's a la WoW (but then worse). And that is basically where the majority of players are hanging out. Inside scenarios all day long!
Tier 4 Open RvR has hardly been tested at all. It's been acknowledged by many beta testers and it now starts to show and will be the downfal of WAR! The most important, most hyped feature of WAR!
If they had tested this thoroughly in Closed Beta in a much earlier state with enough people for lets say 2 months at least. Then they would have discovered the flaws in Keep / Fortress designs and their performance issues!
They would have discovered the excessive CC issues (also adding to the performance issues. especially inside T4 keeps).
And so had plenty of time to revamp and redesign open RvR and rethink the CC system for the classes.
Comments
Servers were packed the first few weeks. Mythic had to quickly add more servers after launch to keep up with demand. It wasn't like the servers were always empty. That was the result of people leaving the game.
How does a game go from record setting sales mmo release, to the fastest server mergers in mmo history?
To answer the original posters question: Warhammer was released unfinished. From balance to disjointed gameplay to lack of finish, it just did not accomplish what it set out to do.
Yeah, keep holding "fastest server merges in MMO history" over your head like a champ. If you don't know why they merged the servers, and why it's so important for WAR, you won't see that Mythic did the right thing. Yes, people left as a result of the drama roller coaster of "ZOMG I QUIT MAH EXPECTATIONS WAS TOO HIGH" of ANY MMO launch. Now they're slowly coming back, just like ANY (half decent) MMO.
WAR didn't fail. WAR was released too early, in my opinion. But that doesn't mean it fails. It means it needs work. I believe another 4-6 months of development would've done a world of good, BUT with Mythic's patches so far they show they're doing a really good job and are determined to improve the game.
What are you talking about ? There is more players is WAR now then there ever was. Tier 1 area are more populated ( on our server anyways ) with brand new players then ever ( and that's new players to the game, no alts no transfers ).
If you plan to talk about something at least talk about something you have a clue about :P Back to your cave troll.
Sinister Savant MMORPG Community
I fully understand why Mythic did server mergers and I know it was the right thing to do. I have even applauded them for taking the right actions when it wasn't good for publicity sake. Their ability to react to problems has been pretty good.
Peoples expectations were high, because Mythic couldn't shut their F'n mouths about the game and what rock gods they were. Waaaghhh this and Waaaagh that. Don't blame players for expecting a finished game and not sticking around to pay a fee when it didn't deliver. I very much agree with you that Warhammer was released to early. It wasn't tested or improved upon from whatever testing was done. I also agree that had the game waited 4-6 more months it may not have lost the vast majority of people that tried the game out. Whoever made that decision cost their company untold millions.
Warhammer isn't a complete failure, but it sure is a floop in terms of what it could and should be. The game isn't going to die, but it isn't going to spring back to life either. Maybe I see things differently when I log in next, but I don't expect it to.
Servers were packed the first few weeks. Mythic had to quickly add more servers after launch to keep up with demand. It wasn't like the servers were always empty. That was the result of people leaving the game.
How does a game go from record setting sales mmo release, to the fastest server mergers in mmo history?
To answer the original posters question: Warhammer was released unfinished. From balance to disjointed gameplay to lack of finish, it just did not accomplish what it set out to do.
This is an absolute fabrication my friend. The servers were not packed. You had a good portion of medium/medium and medium/light servers and the rest were light/light.
The party never got started on some of the launch day servers so the overall count was reduced.
Lets be real big guy, WAR being the fastest selling is only on the count that includes sales to vendors. I really like this game, but it is nothing so fantastic that its going to re-establish a trend in the market. I am a realist. It has not flopped, but it ain't number 1.
Some people have this go hard or go home attitude, which is fine until they have to accept the lesser victory. In this case the game doesn't have millions of people playing it, but it is still running strong and is fun for a good number of people.
Tabula Rasa is a flop, SWG/NGE flopped, DnL flopped, Vanguard flopped, AOC flopped. Of the ones I just stated only VG and AOC have a shot at making amends with the people that played before. WAR is going to continue to lose people and bring people in at the same time until they either break through the ceiling or enter a holding pattern with a few hundred thousand accounts. Either way, its not bad for an mmo.
I fully understand why Mythic did server mergers and I know it was the right thing to do. I have even applauded them for taking the right actions when it wasn't good for publicity sake. Their ability to react to problems has been pretty good.
Peoples expectations were high, because Mythic couldn't shut their F'n mouths about the game and what rock gods they were. Waaaghhh this and Waaaagh that. Don't blame players for expecting a finished game and not sticking around to pay a fee when it didn't deliver. I very much agree with you that Warhammer was released to early. It wasn't tested or improved upon from whatever testing was done. I also agree that had the game waited 4-6 more months it may not have lost the vast majority of people that tried the game out. Whoever made that decision cost their company untold millions.
Warhammer isn't a complete failure, but it sure is a floop in terms of what it could and should be. The game isn't going to die, but it isn't going to spring back to life either. Maybe I see things differently when I log in next, but I don't expect it to.
Alright, well formed opinion /bow
I fully understand why Mythic did server mergers and I know it was the right thing to do. I have even applauded them for taking the right actions when it wasn't good for publicity sake. Their ability to react to problems has been pretty good.
Peoples expectations were high, because Mythic couldn't shut their F'n mouths about the game and what rock gods they were. Waaaghhh this and Waaaagh that. Don't blame players for expecting a finished game and not sticking around to pay a fee when it didn't deliver. I very much agree with you that Warhammer was released to early. It wasn't tested or improved upon from whatever testing was done. I also agree that had the game waited 4-6 more months it may not have lost the vast majority of people that tried the game out. Whoever made that decision cost their company untold millions.
Warhammer isn't a complete failure, but it sure is a floop in terms of what it could and should be. The game isn't going to die, but it isn't going to spring back to life either. Maybe I see things differently when I log in next, but I don't expect it to.
I have a higher opinion of the game in its current state than you, but I agree that it's not what I would call *great* and it *could have been* great if they spent more time on it. Perhaps it will get there, but I don't really know what to expect. My friends and I speculate that it was released too early because of EA - they're hurting a bit financially, and they wanted the box sales. Big mistake, they had a month to grab people before the WoW expansion, and they lost a lot of subscribers because of that. I think Mythic was perhaps too ambitious as well, and they just couldn't get the game done on time the way they envisioned it. So they released it in a playable state, and are slowly trying to build the game into what they originally wanted. The game has gotten better, but I hear that Tier 4 still has server crashes, and they're going to have to fix that soon or they won't hold end-game players. I haven't logged in very much lately as my friends and I have been spending quality time in Moria, but when I do log in I usually have a lot of fun, so I'll stick around for the forseeable future anyway. There is so much potential in an RvR MMO, so I sure hope they can get there.
Ow the irony ...
Didn't they once have 800k subscriptions the first month? So are you saying they now have more than that? I wonder why Mythic hasn't officially announced that yet; more players in Warhammer than there ever was...
Oh well, this is definitely news to me that they now have over 800k subscriptions.
Grats Mythic and Mark Jacobs!
"TO MICHAEL!"
flop? what version of warhammer are you playing?
The one which went from a hundred servers to a dozen or so.
Were you even around at release? Many servers had ques due to over population. Many servers were heavy/heavy or heavy/med. Mythic even stated somewhere around 500-800k subscribers during the first and second month of the game. This isn't some fabrication about copies sold to stores. The players were there at release.
Those empty servers you talk about didn't happen until weeks after release. They emptied out rather fast, so perhaps that is why you think the game wasn't well populated at the start.
When the best thing you can say about an mmo is "its not bad" then you half heartedly admit the short coming. Everything about this game was huge, from the size of the dev team to the company backing it to the hype surrounding it. Even the game makers were predicting millions of subscribers. Just a couple months after release and the game was hemmoraging subscribers at a staggering rate.
The problem was not empty servers, that was a result. A game can be a flop, but also not die. It may not be a complete failure, but it still failed to achieve its expectations.
Were you even around at release? Many servers had ques due to over population. Many servers were heavy/heavy or heavy/med. Mythic even stated somewhere around 500-800k subscribers during the first and second month of the game. This isn't some fabrication about copies sold to stores. The players were there at release.
Those empty servers you talk about didn't happen until weeks after release. They emptied out rather fast, so perhaps that is why you think the game wasn't well populated at the start.
When the best thing you can say about an mmo is "its not bad" then you half heartedly admit the short coming. Everything about this game was huge, from the size of the dev team to the company backing it to the hype surrounding it. Even the game makers were predicting millions of subscribers. Just a couple months after release and the game was hemmoraging subscribers at a staggering rate.
The problem was not empty servers, that was a result. A game can be a flop, but also not die. It may not be a complete failure, but it still failed to achieve its expectations.
I noted some figures here for EU servers on some early dates:
On Sep 23: at 08.PM Destruction 20 servers locked / Order 8 servers locked. Only 5 servers on low.low
On Sep 28: at 09 PM Destruction 17 servers locked/ Order 6 servers locked. Only 6 servers on low/low.
At that time there were ... 63 EU servers.
On Sep 30th, last time I could check it already began to drop. At prime time it was 9 / 4 servers locked.
Since then WAR "lost" around 50% of its accessable EU servers. With a 50% reduction in servers that would only mean the other servers should have been full.
But they are not. War lost at least 50% of its player base playing at the end of September. Just do the maths.
Worse even, because new players kept coming in, meaning the retention rate must be far worse....
For those using Xfire: at the end of September the ratio between War and Wow players was 6 to 1. Meaning 6 XFire players of Wow for 1 in War.
That ratio is now 23 to 1. Meaning 23 Xfire players of Wow to 1 in War.
Just divide 5 Million western players by 23 and you have a very rough idea of current War players/ 217 K.
Now calculate how many of those 217 K are still players of the launch period...and you'll see future is not that bright in the coming calm spring days (with the imminent launch of DF and Aion).
EA will pull the plug at under 200K. they said that at launch btw.
250k-350K was needed to reach break even point. This thing DID fail, no doubt about that.
Say wha?
Perhaps he was talking about Old Ironforge, which was never implemented in the game and later scraped in the first year.
Kind of strange though, two flight paths that are unusable were put in near the Ironforge Airport almost two years ago.
Were you even around at release? Many servers had ques due to over population. Many servers were heavy/heavy or heavy/med. Mythic even stated somewhere around 500-800k subscribers during the first and second month of the game. This isn't some fabrication about copies sold to stores. The players were there at release.
Those empty servers you talk about didn't happen until weeks after release. They emptied out rather fast, so perhaps that is why you think the game wasn't well populated at the start.
When the best thing you can say about an mmo is "its not bad" then you half heartedly admit the short coming. Everything about this game was huge, from the size of the dev team to the company backing it to the hype surrounding it. Even the game makers were predicting millions of subscribers. Just a couple months after release and the game was hemmoraging subscribers at a staggering rate.
The problem was not empty servers, that was a result. A game can be a flop, but also not die. It may not be a complete failure, but it still failed to achieve its expectations.
I noted some figures here for EU servers on some early dates:
On Sep 23: at 08.PM Destruction 20 servers locked / Order 8 servers locked. Only 5 servers on low.low
On Sep 28: at 09 PM Destruction 17 servers locked/ Order 6 servers locked. Only 6 servers on low/low.
At that time there were ... 63 EU servers.
On Sep 30th, last time I could check it already began to drop. At prime time it was 9 / 4 servers locked.
Since then WAR "lost" around 50% of its accessable EU servers. With a 50% reduction in servers that would only mean the other servers should have been full.
But they are not. War lost at least 50% of its player base playing at the end of September. Just do the maths.
Worse even, because new players kept coming in, meaning the retention rate must be far worse....
For those using Xfire: at the end of September the ratio between War and Wow players was 6 to 1. Meaning 6 XFire players of Wow for 1 in War.
That ratio is now 23 to 1. Meaning 23 Xfire players of Wow to 1 in War.
Just divide 5 Million western players by 23 and you have a very rough idea of current War players/ 217 K.
Now calculate how many of those 217 K are still players of the launch period...and you'll see future is not that bright in the coming calm spring days (with the imminent launch of DF and Aion).
EA will pull the plug at under 200K. they said that at launch btw.
250k-350K was needed to reach break even point. This thing DID fail, no doubt about that.
Since you are talking about EU servers and estimate that there are approx 217,000 EU players, one could estimate that since War is doing better in the US, it would have more players, So it is conceivable using your model to estimate that the total amount of War players could easily be between or exceed 500k and 600k players.
If this is not what you are saying, you need to parse you information better.
WAR is a great success, I have no idea why you think it failed. It delivered on exactly what it said it would. It delivered a fairly solid game, everything it was advertised to be. Then after the initial fallout of MMO jumpers, it settled at an extremely high sub rate.
Darkfall Travelogues!
I've played WoW.
Why would I want to play it again?
exactly. companies have this stupid notion that to get millions of subs you must copy WOW.....yet why would someone stop playing wow to play a wow clone with RvR? one day they will learn in order to get that level of success you must make the anti-wow. the polar opposite of wow.
lol, yeah it's called having "unique creativity". something many companies lack... which is the same in the film industry as well. i've noticed a lot of similar tendencies in games now that still plagues the film industry. of course we don't mind a good rip-off movie from time to time, but in a game it's a whole other ball game, if game devs/companies really want to hold onto a fan base and keep them interested they have to learn to really make something unique that will stand out from the crowd. It's ok if they have certain similarities, because WoW is in no way unique, it simply took good aspect of games that where already out and fitted to their RTS game to make a MMO. they have their own style of doing things and plus they already had 3 million plus fans from their RTS game that was a shoe in for huge subs.
But in all honesty you don't have to have a million subs for an MMO to be doing good. 250k + is plenty enough to reward the company with plenty collateral. it's just WoW has set the bar so high on being "top dog" that there aren't many that can garner that sort of fan base. But of course when Bioware or a similar company that is really solid at game developement brings out a new MMO, i'm willing to wager they will yield similar numbers to WoW.
Somewhere near or over 1 million poeople tried Conan in a month or two. The same thing for Warhammer.
That type of momentum is so much larger than anything else seen for mmos, including wow. We can sit around and blame the massive drop off in subscribers on fickle players, but that just hides the truth.
If the games were better, more people would play them. It isn't an issue of games being so great and people just not being able to handle it for some irrational reason. The games just are not cutting it. They have to many issues at release and offer little to no compelling reason for players to make a switch. Even when they are completely burned out of thier previous game.
When a game has packed servers at release and then a few weeks later it struggles to fill 1/3 of those servers then there are massive problems with that game. When the developers patch notes echo the same things players stated as leaving it shows that the problem was the game and not hundreds of thousands pf people.
A few hundred thousand subscribers can be anywhere from a runaway success to a flop. For an indpendant studio to get a few hundred thousand with a tiny budget and small staff is a success. For one of the most exspensive games with one of the largest (if not the) teams and the worlds biggest entertainment software company powering the company, a few hundred thousand isn't that great. In fact Mythic states that was near the break even point for the game.
Some probs i found with WAR was the lack of end player content. Many poeple once they got 50 they rerolled a character a little bit after 50. Theres no great items once 50 u really dont have to work SUPER hard for the really good itmes. The game was based on RvR the scenarios r awsome! loved the scenarios it was one of ur primarly lvling tools and for items. The thing with scenarios is that the que sometimes last hours sometimes not but it does happen but for me on my server it was at least an half n hour and the PvE is well not the best. i find myself after an hour of PvE. And the other thing is the RvR thruthfully its not that great the keeps r more PvE then PvP u can catch a keep with out encountering a single enemy character the only way really of getting PvP is scenarios which take forever! ALSO end game pvp is sweet! but! it doesnt work out. people r rerolling characters,theres not enough people, or nobody wins. This game has great ideas but it need some help. U can disagree with me but plz dont be rude this is just my opinion
This game could have been a healthy niche game but Mythic wanted to have a WoW 2.0.People were expecting a true Warhammer game and Mythic failed in doing that...so all we have is a BORING sub WoW game with lame animation and bad coding.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
There is a lot of truth in this statement and many games are guilty of it.
If Mythic had just made a true ORvR pvp game with proper objectives making it worthwhile, do you know how big this game WOULD have been? Hundreds of thousands signed on because given their history with DAoC, they thought this was going to be better. Not DAoC 2, but a purer refinement. Instead, Mythic went all Pop 40 on its base.
Kind of like a restaurant famous for a really HOT sauce on their ribs. Then they convert to a national chain but tame the hotness down because they know everyone won't like real hot, and they want to get ALL the money, not some. So the people who were waiting for the hotness (quite a bit still) go there to eat and almost puke because its now Weaksauce McWimpy. It says a lot when the Mythic PvP game people want to play is not the game they just made 4 months ago, but the one they made eight YEARS ago or nothing. They simply won't trudge through the game for long.
There has been a lot said about Darkfall.. it might/might not exist/release etc. But they have one big thing going for them.
If they ARE able to get that game made EXACTLY as they have been saying it's going to be made, they will never want for players. People cry about the ganking, but Adventurine says they aren't changing it, so people buying it will get exactly what they asked for. If they do that, that's how you keep customers. Offering theme park buffets doesn't do it, especially when the food is not really that great.
Mythic was a Jack of all Trades here. They could have been the Chicago Chop House Steakhouse or the Peter Lugar Steakhouse in NYC. Instead, they aspired to be... the Ponderosa/Bonanza chain.
"TO MICHAEL!"
you can tell this thread is a failure just by looking at the name. Why did WAR flopped?? are you kidding me? go back to school kid
I converted to WoW, AFTER playing WAR. My first and most favorite game was DAOC; I played it for years before leaving for SWG in 2005. That's my background, so here's my opinion on why WAR didn't achieve what it was aiming for.
First and foremost, they started by puting a bad taste in the players mouths by cutting 4 cities and 4 classes. Secondly, the game is shallow in comparison to WoW (the competition). All WAR offers that has any resemblance of quality is their RvR, but even then, WoW does better with Wintergrasp and Sands of the Ancients. Siege is 10x better in WoW than in WAR and PvP in the RvR area is a lot more fun. Classes on a 1v1 basis have a lot better chance at doing well, plus there's the tenacity buff, which puts the outnumbered side on an even playing field. To top this off, the PvE experience is best in class, so WAR flopped, because it wasn't better than the competition. The sad part is that WAR's RvR is worse than WoW's RvR.
Lastly, WAR has turned into a game that is best played like an FPS game, except with gear progression. The majority of people I ran into on Pheonix Throne only PvPed and bought Reknown Gear. Hardly anyone paid any attention to the PvE areas. I actually like the FPS games better if all I'm going to do is PvP. At least in FPS games, I am on a level playing field and only my skill at the game matters, not the level, class, or the gear I'm wearing. (Note: Not much different in WoW, except driving siege vehicles around is fun, and classes are balanced 1v1).
I really wish Mythic didn't waste their time on WAR and instead created an updated DAoC. Now that would have made me happy!
Being that I got my start and experience in DAoC, I believe I have a right to say that balancing realm versus realm is a mistake. The developers can never tell which classes will be played more than others, and the paper>rock>scissors approach is outdated. Players want to be able to compete, no matter who decided to que up for scenarios or walk onto the RvR battlefield.
P.S. - I hate WoW PvP, so that's saying something about WAR's dull RvR.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
I like floops.
What kind of silly comments. PvP in War? With that clunky, unresponsive and laggy game play. Come on....
War lacks the polish of Wow classes. As a matter of fact where ARE the talent settings of War?
Can I make a War class and fill in a tank, a healer and a full Dps class in ONE character please. No of course not. Wow is so much more powerful and polished than War is. In fact even comparing the two is a laugh.
War as a PvP game is the laughing stock of MMORPG's.
Now give me your personal mail and I will show you 3(!) recent screen shots of my level 70 character killing 3 different level 80's in a duel. OK mine was 80% brutal geared and those guys were "levelers", but one of them even was on Nax already. And no group intervened.
So skill primes gear in Wow.
Where are the rated PvP sets in War? , where is the balance? , what kind of silly game are you playing where lag and clunky combat moves are more important than skill?
Oh and since every Wow class is represented in the top world arena competitions, this is ample proof there is balance or else you wouldn't have all classes in that top.
There isn't even a duel mode in Warhammer, because dueling would be ridiculous in showing off just how much nonsens is put into that game.
Gratz, you win bigest fail poster of this thread.
Just about everythign you said was wrong , dumb, or just beyond discription
Every class have 3 lines.
If i made a game where ca class could, heal, tank , dps , cc, and blow bubbles from you know where would that mean my classes are more "polished" ? In your world yes, in reality no.
Wow is the laugh stock of pve and pve mmorpgs. Wow see how i did that i just made a statement +2 skillz to me. (does ithe stament have any value . . . no).
Now log on your 70 and ill beat him 100 times out of 100 with my 80. I promise you'll never get close. So maybe skill does matter then agian if i fight a level 20 Whitelion with my level 11 dok in orvr and i beat him does that mean war also take skill? (i did this not 1 hour ago). Ps dueling with your rouges vs some class noob doesn't makes u coolz (it makes the class op).
Anyone one will tell you , class make up > equipment> skill in WoW . Anyoen who does not agree has a 1500 rating and talks about getting better gear, i mean skills, i mean better partners.
About lag , have you played wow at all ever in the last 3 months?
Lets see wintergrasp is never laggy right? (more laggy than 200-400 people on the screen in WAR BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS).
Lets see about 4-5 nights out of 7 are not 25 man raidable or are but just barely due to the 7-25 sec. action fire lag. (wow we are talking about).
Look at your top classes again lets see 50% of all people in 2v2 teams are pallies 70% of top 2v2 classes are pallies. Sure all equal here (your so busted here btw, i eman you say one thign but the reality proves your wrong like everytime its amazing). PS the other 10% are dEath nighs
In 2v2 and 3v3 pallies and death knight combos are all over the top ranks. (Never looked at others)
There isn't duel mode in war becuase you don't go around hugging the opposite side their your enemies, you fight thme not each other. Futhermore, WAR is balanced around team play not individual play, amking duels pointless. Where as all wow really has is duels and 3v3 and 5v5 duels for its pvp system, sure there is open world and bgs but they are pointless and done quite awfully.
Normally, i try to adress points nice like or at least with cold logic, however, your 100% wrong and dumb post here has brought out the wrost in me and well that is what you get for making a post like that.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
WAR flopped. Pure and simple.
Why?
Because the open RvR is flawed in it's core! It's too static, too linear and becomes boring real fast!
When you have done a keep siege or defense in Tier 2. Well Tier 3 and Tier 4 aren't any different, exept for the extra wall that's introduced in the Tier 3 ones.
Every darn keep has basically the same layout. And when you have a very good balanced WB defending the only staircase in a keep. Then there is no way any force is going to take over that keep!
You either show up with such a large zerg force so you can outlag the defenders and be lucky to pull the keep lord to the terrace and kill him quickly.
That's basically the only tactic there is and being used from Tier2 all the way to Tier4.
Siege weapons, except for the Ram are completely pointless, because your bound to static and mostly awfully placed siege pads! Casters do a far better job lol.
My very active guild and alliance has basically died out in the last few weeks, because more and more of them who managed to grind their way into Tier 4 got bored out of their skull when they started participating in Tier 4 open RvR and canceled their subscription!
And as of yesterday I joined them and canceled too. As I have no faith left in Mythic to get the game around!
There is so much wrong with the open RvR system, it's not even funny anymore.
It will need a complete revamp, and seeing what so called improvements they have made with the last patches, then we won't have to expect it!
And don't even get me started on Fortress Sieges. A perfect example of how their game engine and server infrastructure sucks big time and can't handle the player load in such large battles! So much for largescale RvR!
Me and many many others are just severely dissapointed that this turd of an Open RvR has come out of the hands of the same Studio that delivered us DAoC! It's just baffling!
And what else is there to do? PVE? It's one of the worst of any MMO and even more of a boring grind.
PQ's are okay, but soon after you've done a couple you'll see they are nothing more then a disguised Rep grind!
So you are left with Scenarios. Mini BG's a la WoW (but then worse). And that is basically where the majority of players are hanging out. Inside scenarios all day long!
Tier 4 Open RvR has hardly been tested at all. It's been acknowledged by many beta testers and it now starts to show and will be the downfal of WAR! The most important, most hyped feature of WAR!
If they had tested this thoroughly in Closed Beta in a much earlier state with enough people for lets say 2 months at least. Then they would have discovered the flaws in Keep / Fortress designs and their performance issues!
They would have discovered the excessive CC issues (also adding to the performance issues. especially inside T4 keeps).
And so had plenty of time to revamp and redesign open RvR and rethink the CC system for the classes.
But now it's too late. Such a shame!
Cheers