For all those that are dreaming, waiting or insisting that there must be 3rd person in MO.
There will be none.
Get ower it, lads.
lol They don't have to get over it, they just won't play it. That's money lost which means its incredibly stupid on the part of Star Vault. Personally, I love 1st person, and am finally glad to have an mmorpg where i can play 1st person AND see my weapons, hands, etc. But i can't really understand why people can't have a choice. It's not like people asking for a PvE server on a PvP-centric game, its a client-side feature that is a cakewalk to turn on and yields no gameplay advantage in PvP.
Forcing 1st person only = money lost, reduction in overall player base may affect gameplay (empty worlds suck)
Giving a choice = money gained, no gameplay impact
Agreed because all they have to do is make the first person view optional and more people will be happy to play.
Wrong, go through the whole thread, its not just a simple view, 3rd person view gives an advantage over first person, if they allow for 3rd person then the whole game might as well be 3rd person because thats how everyone would play it. Therefore if they take away the 3rd person view everyone is equal with the view style they want their game played in. Money lost or not, we have 3rd person view games all over the place, a supremely 1st person game is few and far between. So.. in short, 3rd person viewers.. you take all the other games out there, let the 1st person viewers take MO.
1-st person can work out well if it's implemented right.
"The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands, To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming! On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
1st person view only... in a mmo.. what a put off. Itl make the graphic sucks.. I mean the closer you zoom with camera the worse it looks, also runnin around like that.. well Ive never played a FPS game very long and I cant see others here (which are RPG folks, not FPS folks) doing it, itl get very old, really fast.
But say wouldnt there just be possible to make a third person addon if its clientbased?
We've come to a conclusion already - There are three sides divided on the subject:
1 - The conservatives. They condemn the game and will not play it because it does not follow suit of all the other MMO's with the perspective of the gameplay.
2 - The neutrals. They're probably going to try the game. Even if they don't, they don't really give a damn about the perspective.
3 - The fans. They have been waiting to try out first person in an online RPG game experience.
No matter how much people complain about it, there will only be a first person mode. It has been like that from the start, and is one of the main features of the game. Telling them to add a 3rd person view, could most likely create some balancing issues, which in turn would make every player have to choose the view with allows them to be better.. removing the whole purpose of having different view modes in the first place.
(I know someone probably has said that already, thought I didn't want to read the 100s of replies already here.)
We've come to a conclusion already - There are three sides divided on the subject:
1 - The conservatives. They condemn the game and will not play it because it does not follow suit of all the other MMO's with the perspective of the gameplay.
2 - The neutrals. They're probably going to try the game. Even if they don't, they don't really give a damn about the perspective.
3 - The fans. They have been waiting to try out first person in an online RPG game experience.
4. I registered for the beta, I'm still going to try it. I just think it would be enhanced by an OTS view. The blindness and dirt in the eyes can easily be implemented with an OTS view... Just like say, a combination of Killzone and Drake's Fortune. Just apply the impairment graphics for both viewpoints. It might also be a good idea to make the FPV automatic when using ranged weaponry.
1st person view only... in a mmo.. what a put off. Itl make the graphic sucks.. I mean the closer you zoom with camera the worse it looks, also runnin around like that.. well Ive never played a FPS game very long and I cant see others here (which are RPG folks, not FPS folks) doing it, itl get very old, really fast. But say wouldnt there just be possible to make a third person addon if its clientbased?
The 3rd person view in Everquest sucked ass so everyone used 1st person and it was totally fine. You newbs are spoiled by vanilla MMO's like WoW.
Originally posted by Cry0manc3r Im sorry to burst all of your bubbles but if youd be on MO forums youd know that there IS 3rd person view when mounted.
So...Might as just shush.
Did you look at the date of post, in which you've found this obsolete statement ?
There's no other view than in first person. Not even while mounted, while swimming, while running, while farting. Only FPV.
-- /thread
Remember, your advantage lies in your opponent's weakness (J)
1st person view only... in a mmo.. what a put off. Itl make the graphic sucks.. I mean the closer you zoom with camera the worse it looks, also runnin around like that.. well Ive never played a FPS game very long and I cant see others here (which are RPG folks, not FPS folks) doing it, itl get very old, really fast. But say wouldnt there just be possible to make a third person addon if its clientbased?
The 3rd person view in Everquest sucked ass so everyone used 1st person and it was totally fine. You newbs are spoiled by vanilla MMO's like WoW.
Ive been in the genre for almost a decade ok.. so please dont lower yourself to WoW-noob-calling, as for EQ well I didnt enjoy it much so I dont really know what to say there but in a RPG game why would you want to have the 1st person view to me thats just annoying (perhaps thats what they realised too when they made EQ2!) , as for the balance there are countless ways to solve that. Ex adding a camera spec seeing what the 1st person sees in a third person view and then only showing background in the rest of the picture.
I know it to be a mistake they will pay dearly for, they want to immerge the player and the world making you feel part of something.. well thats fine but it could be done just as good if not even better in 3rd view.
I mean imagine the really large pvp battles, you wont see anything in melee.. in a sense youl be fighting blindly because of the horde of players that are too close to look at as different players, itl just be a mass of colors.
Its hard to see wheter or not this will be good or bad, maybe Im wrong, maybe first person view is great, a lot of games let you choose and most pick 3rd view and its not because it gives any advantage over the first person view that folks picks it, its because thats the way they like it.
but clearly since you arent that experienced in the mmo genre or the rpg genre in general, you have no real life view on what the RPG gamers want so you continue to spew out nonsense. A game is a commercial product were a company sells it to a customer and it is the duty to know what the customer want, also to look at the genre, sure you may revulotionize but cmon first person RPG games are so 1990s. The avatars look better in 3rd view, the world looks better and the combat looks better.
For all those that are dreaming, waiting or insisting that there must be 3rd person in MO.
There will be none.
Get ower it, lads.
lol They don't have to get over it, they just won't play it. That's money lost which means its incredibly stupid on the part of Star Vault. Personally, I love 1st person, and am finally glad to have an mmorpg where i can play 1st person AND see my weapons, hands, etc. But i can't really understand why people can't have a choice. It's not like people asking for a PvE server on a PvP-centric game, its a client-side feature that is a cakewalk to turn on and yields no gameplay advantage in PvP.
Forcing 1st person only = money lost, reduction in overall player base may affect gameplay (empty worlds suck)
Giving a choice = money gained, no gameplay impact
Sorry for the double post didn't realize I couldn't type on this forum with the current change, have to switch it to BBML mode.. anyhow I agree with the poster I quoted above... No 3rd person view equates to loss of my interest in the game... I'm not a fan of 1st person, in fact I get turned around and lost so easily in 1st person that is one reason I don't enjoy shooters, and the main reason I don't play single player FP games... And I don't think that those that like 3P view are the minority either.
Okay, I don't usually post on these forums, but this one got me really riled up.
First of all, anyone who is complaining about 1st person view is making an invalid argument for a game that won't want to hear it. Mortal Online is geared for REALISM and sandbox gameplay, not for cookie-cutter MMORPG mechanics. Since when have MMORPGs ever given first person views, let you kill anyone anywhere, or even let you aim attacks for that matter? They aren't trying to appeal to the WoW players or even the EQ players, they are looking to a whole new audience and being inventive.
Next point: to whoever made the comment about it looking worse closer up? That is the most ridiculous comment I've ever heard. Which engine in the past 2 years does that apply to? That is completely absurd, and if you look into the Unreal Engine maybe you'll understand how ridiculous that sounded. And since when was combat worse or anything worse because the view was 1st person instead of 3rd person? Have you ever played TES: Oblivion? I used first person view throughout that game and had a blast- they aren't looking to make games unrealistic just so you can see 'how sweet' your character looks, they're making it so you can play a game which is realistic and consistent in that in all aspects.
And to the guy who said that it will be 3rd person while mounted; look at the newer videos and look through the forums. They will explain that so far they have found the mechanics to allow for 1st person view on mounts, and because of this they may never have to allow any 3rd person gameplay at all(PS THATS THEIR GOAL)
I for one want to play this game MORE because it is consistent in 1st person view- that is not a turn-off that is the ideal game for me. I'm not sure who else agrees with me, but I guess someone does and they're making an awesome game out of it.
1st person view only... in a mmo.. what a put off. Itl make the graphic sucks.. I mean the closer you zoom with camera the worse it looks, also runnin around like that.. well Ive never played a FPS game very long and I cant see others here (which are RPG folks, not FPS folks) doing it, itl get very old, really fast. But say wouldnt there just be possible to make a third person addon if its clientbased?
The 3rd person view in Everquest sucked ass so everyone used 1st person and it was totally fine. You newbs are spoiled by vanilla MMO's like WoW.
Ive been in the genre for almost a decade ok.. so please dont lower yourself to WoW-noob-calling, as for EQ well I didnt enjoy it much so I dont really know what to say there but in a RPG game why would you want to have the 1st person view to me thats just annoying (perhaps thats what they realised too when they made EQ2!) , as for the balance there are countless ways to solve that. Ex adding a camera spec seeing what the 1st person sees in a third person view and then only showing background in the rest of the picture.
I know it to be a mistake they will pay dearly for, they want to immerge the player and the world making you feel part of something.. well thats fine but it could be done just as good if not even better in 3rd view.
I mean imagine the really large pvp battles, you wont see anything in melee.. in a sense youl be fighting blindly because of the horde of players that are too close to look at as different players, itl just be a mass of colors.
Its hard to see wheter or not this will be good or bad, maybe Im wrong, maybe first person view is great, a lot of games let you choose and most pick 3rd view and its not because it gives any advantage over the first person view that folks picks it, its because thats the way they like it.
but clearly since you arent that experienced in the mmo genre or the rpg genre in general, you have no real life view on what the RPG gamers want so you continue to spew out nonsense. A game is a commercial product were a company sells it to a customer and it is the duty to know what the customer want, also to look at the genre, sure you may revulotionize but cmon first person RPG games are so 1990s. The avatars look better in 3rd view, the world looks better and the combat looks better.
You are right, the majority may prefer third person view. I enjoy third person view too, i still play EQ2 and Shadowbane as a matter of fact.
But they are not making the next mainstream MMO, they are making their own niche game. And lots of people love it. The people that fit into the niche genre. If they wanted high subscription numbers they would not make it a FFA Full loot PvP game in the first place, dont ya think? The forced 1st person view is just one more thing that makes the game different and more skill based.
As for your one example of the "countless" ways to solve the pvp issues with third person view, i dont think anyone would want to design/program that. Would be hard not to make annoying/dumb.
As for how the 1st person view feels in massive battles, who knows we'll have to wait and see. 80+ people pvp battles whilst in first person in EQ was just fine however.
Wow, i managed to give a calm and constructive reply. I was going to leave a simple flame at first. Would have been easier:P
Okay, I don't usually post on these forums, but this one got me really riled up. First of all, anyone who is complaining about 1st person view is making an invalid argument for a game that won't want to hear it. Mortal Online is geared for REALISM and sandbox gameplay, not for cookie-cutter MMORPG mechanics. Since when have MMORPGs ever given first person views, let you kill anyone anywhere, or even let you aim attacks for that matter? They aren't trying to appeal to the WoW players or even the EQ players, they are looking to a whole new audience and being inventive. Realism.. are you sure you done your homework? Its a fantasy game, also since they dont have any marketing money... should be interesting to see them trying to take people from other genres with hype and comments alone. To be honest I think this is just some crap the devs told themselves to keep working, it will be different.. maybe so but will it be good? Next point: to whoever made the comment about it looking worse closer up? That is the most ridiculous comment I've ever heard. Which engine in the past 2 years does that apply to? That is completely absurd, and if you look into the Unreal Engine maybe you'll understand how ridiculous that sounded. And since when was combat worse or anything worse because the view was 1st person instead of 3rd person? Have you ever played TES: Oblivion? I used first person view throughout that game and had a blast- they aren't looking to make games unrealistic just so you can see 'how sweet' your character looks, they're making it so you can play a game which is realistic and consistent in that in all aspects. sugesting buying glasses if you cant see difference in quality between 3rd view and 1st person, its something the devs have been using for years to bump up the lvl of detail. It can however backfire as its more demanding on the hardware, although its a fact so believe what you want to and yes Ive played both the UT series and Oblivion game (as well as fallout 3 that basicly uses the same engine) and yes Im right and your.. less right, zooming out you dont see the textures so close and ala they look better, common sense And to the guy who said that it will be 3rd person while mounted; look at the newer videos and look through the forums. They will explain that so far they have found the mechanics to allow for 1st person view on mounts, and because of this they may never have to allow any 3rd person gameplay at all(PS THATS THEIR GOAL) their goals are to be frankly just plain dumb and this is why. The Company making Mortal online is a small one, basicly consisting of 10 people or so if I remember correctly and so their funds are limited. Oblvion, the UT series and Fallout had massive marketing campaigns, they had news adds, billboards, fallout even had tv commercials. MO wont have none of these and will rely soley on hype and player comments. Maybe 1st person view will be great? But I still see the danger of sticking out when you are such a small company (oh and the lead developer is a fuckin tree hugger, see youtube). To be fair they dont seem to have any whatsoever knowledge about commercial interests or how to market a product. Itl be fun to see how this turns out I for one want to play this game MORE because it is consistent in 1st person view- that is not a turn-off that is the ideal game for me. I'm not sure who else agrees with me, but I guess someone does and they're making an awesome game out of it. Good for you. Im guessing you are more into FPS like games and so dont have many mmo subscriptions, or your a dreamer thinking this would be better then the other, or your simply strange.
But I still see the danger of sticking out when you are such a small company (oh and the lead developer is a fuckin tree hugger, see youtube). To be fair they dont seem to have any whatsoever knowledge about commercial interests or how to market a product. Itl be fun to see how this turns out
Oh come on. If they were so worried about commercial sucess they would not have made a first person/free for all pvp/full loot MMO in the first place. THEY KNOW ITS NOT WHAT THE MAINSTREAM AUDIENCE WANTS(sry for caps just making sure you get it). There's no reason to question their knowledge about marketing. They know they are making a mmo that a small group(sandbox fans) like. Any sandbox fan that doesnt know about MO when the game is close to release is simply not in the market for a new MMO anyway.
Oh and i'm going to guess by the treehugger(simply because he was filmed in a forest and knows 100x about the world he lives in then you) you mean Mats Persson. He writes some great posts about this stuff, you should read em all.
But I still see the danger of sticking out when you are such a small company (oh and the lead developer is a fuckin tree hugger, see youtube). To be fair they dont seem to have any whatsoever knowledge about commercial interests or how to market a product. Itl be fun to see how this turns out
Oh come on. If they were so worried about commercial sucess they would not have made a first person/free for all pvp/full loot MMO in the first place. THEY KNOW ITS NOT WHAT THE MAINSTREAM AUDIENCE WANTS(sry for caps just making sure you get it). There's no reason to question their knowledge about marketing. They know they are making a mmo that a small group(sandbox fans) like. Any sandbox fan that doesnt know about MO when the game is close to release is simply not in the market for a new MMO anyway.
well even niche games need to adapt and ask their fans for what they want, in this case I think its just ridicoulus they would deny their fans and customers this, I dont buy them saying itl ruin gameplay, thats bullshit. Why cant they atleast give the possibility to do so, every other 1st person RPG I know of allows a 3rd view
Oh and i'm going to guess by the treehugger(simply because he was filmed in a forest and knows 100x about the world he lives in then you) you mean Mats Persson. He writes some great posts about this stuff, you should read em all.
No hes a.. hmm I would say hippie but more of the retarded way away from peace and all that but rather that of a roleplayer playing his game in real life, hes.. special. Maybe thats good but.. well to me he looks like the ultimate geek and I have infact red some of his work, hes innovative Il give you that but.. not really outstanding as a storyteller or a tech geniues
as for him knowing more about the world then I do.. well perhaps if we lived on Mars... this guy isnt really into the real world very much... Still a tree hugger
Realism.. are you sure you done your homework? Its a fantasy game, also since they dont have any marketing money... should be interesting to see them trying to take people from other genres with hype and comments alone. To be honest I think this is just some crap the devs told themselves to keep working, it will be different.. maybe so but will it be good?
Wow. Have you ever heard of using real-world physics/mechanics in a fantasy environment? It's actually quite common in RPGs. Take, for example, Oblivion and Fallout 3, games which you claim to have played. The ultimate goal for most games IS realism, which is why games like Crysis and others are trying so hard to make their physics engines as close to real life as possible while still offering competitive action and gameplay. There is a huge market based on realism; so don't try and act like because it is in a fantasy setting it dismisses realism- it doesn't.
sugesting buying glasses if you cant see difference in quality between 3rd view and 1st person, its something the devs have been using for years to bump up the lvl of detail. It can however backfire as its more demanding on the hardware, although its a fact so believe what you want to and yes Ive played both the UT series and Oblivion game (as well as fallout 3 that basicly uses the same engine) and yes Im right and your.. less right, zooming out you dont see the textures so close and ala they look better, common sense
That's a very ignorant statement. If you knew anything about textures, you'd know that it's quite possible for the textures in a field of view to have the SAME resolution as when in 3rd person. Just because you are CLOSER does not mean that it completely distorts the textures; look at the variation between games: Fallout 3, Crysis, WoW, and even look at flight simulator. If you knew anything about textures, you'd know developers are perfectly capable of making the same texture resolution whether you are right next to it or far away from it, it's perfectly a matter of choice and capabilities in the engine. The scale of textures isn't linear in every game- it varies quite a bit actually. And zooming out making them look better? Last time I checked games that had zoomed out views don't always look better, seeing as most of them don't even have seamless tiles! Check out your favorite games, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
their goals are to be frankly just plain dumb and this is why. The Company making Mortal online is a small one, basicly consisting of 10 people or so if I remember correctly and so their funds are limited. Oblvion, the UT series and Fallout had massive marketing campaigns, they had news adds, billboards, fallout even had tv commercials. MO wont have none of these and will rely soley on hype and player comments. Maybe 1st person view will be great? But I still see the danger of sticking out when you are such a small company (oh and the lead developer is a fuckin tree hugger, see youtube). To be fair they dont seem to have any whatsoever knowledge about commercial interests or how to market a product. Itl be fun to see how this turns out
Although marketing is important to the success of any game; there are many games that have been successes without proper marketing. Many games that are popular today were made by small-time developers. And the ones that were truly successful were the ones that pushed the limits and dared to do something different! By making an MMORPG exactly like every other game they wouldn't only be taking no risk, they probably wouldn't distinguish themselves at all. Now, which one do you think would sell more copies? A copy of WoW or a brand-new game that people haven't tried yet? People who want to play WoW already have subscriptions to WoW, they don't need a new game that's exactly the same to invest time into.
Good for you. Im guessing you are more into FPS like games and so dont have many mmo subscriptions, or your a dreamer thinking this would be better then the other, or your simply strange.
I'm glad you're happy for me. Yes FPS games are a lot of fun. Have you ever noticed that the MMORPG genre is doing worse as a result of player skill being pretty much out of the loop? They are looking for innovative ways of adding in some sort of skill, and AIMING(or that FPS term as you might like to have it put) is an idea that is taking on a large following in the MMORPG genre. So if you aren't fond of the FPS integrations, why do you come onto these forums and argue for a game that is completely contradictory to your style? Tsk tsk. Trolling?
Oh, and speaking of "being a dreamer thinking this would be better then the other", I may be a dreamer, but it seems I'm not the only one, ahem, now presenting a quote from your personal profile:
"Have played computer games my whole life, mmos since 2005. First MMO was Company of heroes followed by World of Warcraft. But not settling I decided to wait and till this very day no mmo have been close to furfilling my needs, only time will tell wether it may ever be so." -PapaB34R
By the way, I could have sworn you said you knew everything about the MMORPG industry? It seems the only MMORPG you really know anything about.. Is WoW. Oh speaking of awesome graphics, you sure picked one to prove me wrong; I guess third person graphics really are better than 1st person afterall!
Yeah i liked how he said "but clearly since you arent that experienced in the mmo genre or the rpg genre in general" to me yet i started playing MMO's 8 years before he even tried one.
Yeah i liked how he said "but clearly since you arent that experienced in the mmo genre or the rpg genre in general" to me yet i started playing MMO's 8 years before he even tried one. my e-peen just grew.
And I like how you keep making assumptions of me even though you havnt talked about anything else then which camera view to use, that says something about you doesnt it.
And Il be a monkeys bared ass uncle if you were more experienced in the RPG genre then me, to me you just sound like a FPS crazed ex counter strike player who once played EQ and like Oblivion.
You totaly reject any idea of change as some "WoW fanboy hate comment". But like I said earlier guess that says alot about you huh
oh and next time Id sugest checking up the member before you make a statement about facts. Since you at 21 couldnt possibly have played 8 before I entered the MMO genre... but then again I guess one could only expect bright people to do so
Yeah i liked how he said "but clearly since you arent that experienced in the mmo genre or the rpg genre in general" to me yet i started playing MMO's 8 years before he even tried one. my e-peen just grew.
And I like how you keep making assumptions of me even though you havnt talked about anything else then which camera view to use, that says something about you doesnt it.
And Il be a monkeys bared ass uncle if you were more experienced in the RPG genre then me, to me you just sound like a FPS crazed ex counter strike player who once played EQ and like Oblivion.
You totaly reject any idea of change as some "WoW fanboy hate comment". But like I said earlier guess that says alot about you huh
oh and next time Id sugest checking up the member before you make a statement about facts. Since you at 21 couldnt possibly have played 8 before I entered the MMO genre... but then again I guess one could only expect bright people to do so
Haha ok. I give you that my first post was not so constructive, and included the word WoW and noob. Not together tho. It was a post made out of boredom. However, i haven't mentioned any FPS game and certainly not counter-strike. Haven't mentioned Oblivion either. So i dont know what you are smoking but its probably pretty good stuff. I also posted 2 posts after that one that was constructive and gave my opinion.
And yes i had only been 10 for a while when i first played Meridian 59 on school computers, so your comment about me not possibly could have played 8 years before you entered the mmo scene is not true. Anyways, this discussion between you and me is pretty much pointless now. Just reply jinzounin's post, since he said it better then i could have ever done. But you seem to have avoided answering it=)
Yeah i liked how he said "but clearly since you arent that experienced in the mmo genre or the rpg genre in general" to me yet i started playing MMO's 8 years before he even tried one. my e-peen just grew.
And I like how you keep making assumptions of me even though you havnt talked about anything else then which camera view to use, that says something about you doesnt it.
And Il be a monkeys bared ass uncle if you were more experienced in the RPG genre then me, to me you just sound like a FPS crazed ex counter strike player who once played EQ and like Oblivion.
You totaly reject any idea of change as some "WoW fanboy hate comment". But like I said earlier guess that says alot about you huh
oh and next time Id sugest checking up the member before you make a statement about facts. Since you at 21 couldnt possibly have played 8 before I entered the MMO genre... but then again I guess one could only expect bright people to do so
Haha ok. I give you that my first post was not so constructive, and included the word WoW and noob. Not together tho. It was a post made out of boredom. However, i haven't mentioned any FPS game and certainly not counter-strike. Haven't mentioned Oblivion either. So i dont know what you are smoking but its probably pretty good stuff. I also posted 2 posts after that one that was constructive and gave my opinion.
And yes i had only been 10 for a while when i first played Meridian 59 on school computers, so your comment about me not possibly could have played 8 years before you entered the mmo scene is not true. Anyways, this discussion between you and me is pretty much pointless now. Just reply jinzounin's post, since he said it better then i could have ever done. But you seem to have avoided answering it=)
yes we are getting away from the subject arent we. But I think the views are so fundamentaly different that this discussion basicly have gone in to a deadlock and I have no wish to reply to that guys post, why because either he cant read right, or hes just defending the game.. or he pretends to know stuff when he doesnt know shit.. atleast thats what I feel reading what hes typing. I mean if you seriously think the level of detail is the same then for a 1st and 3rd person view..
He picks out stuff from my bio I havnt changed in years and keeps throwing oblivion and fallout 3 out, this game doesnt have even half of the budget of any of those, further more Oblivion and fallout 3 should be considered hyped because of their history (oblivion=morro wind and fallout.. well prev fallout games), mortal online got none. Theres also the amusing fact that both games allow for 3rd person view. Must say to attack me claiming I only know of WoW was funny though I give you that.
so what Ive red I consider him to be.. well wouldnt say socially challenged but he doesnt do his homework very well, he doesnt really go on subject but keeps repeating himself. If I should too for once, take any MMO to date, pick one doesnt matter which then compare how it looks from 3rd to 1p view, its so easy. It doesnt get more simple.
My standpoint still lasts its foolish not to allow 3rd person view, its dumb and not well thought trough. The head designer is not someone that should have a more advance rule then cleaning the toilets. Maybe thats a bit rough but hes more of the philosophic/hippie guy who cares more about his "art" then the gameplay and its mechanics.
With that said dont get me wrong Im still interested in the game and although I may not buy it straight away Il probably get the trial once released.
And yes you havnt been playing in the RPG genre longer then I am, Im 3 years ahead of you as for mmo genre I played runescape back in the day, its ignorant and foolish to make such a comment.. just saying not that it has any matter whatsoever I have played more games then most folks, that includes mmo's but that doesnt matter in this discussion. However it do reflect upon your statements
The head designer is not someone that should have a more advance rule then cleaning the toilets. Maybe thats a bit rough but hes more of the philosophic/hippie guy who cares more about his "art" then the gameplay and its mechanics.
And yes you havnt been playing in the RPG genre longer then I am, Im 3 years ahead of you as for mmo genre I played runescape back in the day, its ignorant and foolish to make such a comment.. just saying not that it has any matter whatsoever I have played more games then most folks, that includes mmo's but that doesnt matter in this discussion. However it do reflect upon your statements
Your slander about the head designer just shows that you aint one should listen to. Shows bad character.
Runescape classic was released in 2001 so i dont see what you mean? Anyways. Last post here so this thread can go back on topic.
The head designer is not someone that should have a more advance rule then cleaning the toilets. Maybe thats a bit rough but hes more of the philosophic/hippie guy who cares more about his "art" then the gameplay and its mechanics.
And yes you havnt been playing in the RPG genre longer then I am, Im 3 years ahead of you as for mmo genre I played runescape back in the day, its ignorant and foolish to make such a comment.. just saying not that it has any matter whatsoever I have played more games then most folks, that includes mmo's but that doesnt matter in this discussion. However it do reflect upon your statements
Your slander about the head designer just shows that you aint one should listen to. Shows bad character. Runescape classic was released in 2001 so i dont see what you mean? Anyways. Last post here so this thread can go back on topic.
I have no need to justify myself. I believe you among others are only posting as fanboys and couldnt give a dam about critisizing the game, or its quality everything they do is perfect and critiques are considered noobs or that they dont understand or some other bullshit, you attack the author at any moments instead of stating the facts and give descent arguements why or why not this is good. Id have a more civilized discussion with a parrot. (although maybe not as amusing)
Originally posted by Metal_M
For all those that are dreaming, waiting or insisting that there must be 3rd person in MO.
There will be none.
Get ower it, lads.
This is final, isnt it. Its a mistake and its one made by the head designer/project leader. Its a really bad call to say the least, this is not a subjective thought, its commercially proven. They dont want former MMO players the lead designer says but a new audience. Oblivion and Fallout 3 certainly made this happen thats fact sure but you cant compare a single player game with a MMO. As for EQ well its been more then half a decade. I can only wish MO fans the best of luck, Il keep peaking on this game but pay for it I will not. This game will live or fall depending on two matters. The first is their quest to get new gamers amongst their ranks, players who havnt been in the MMO genre previously. Secondly Darkfall, should the game fail MO is bound to have lots of its fans flooding into the game and with no competition so even more members beyond those who already were fans. Should DF live and even prosper MO will find itself in a much more grave situation. If it prospers it will most likely spell the end of MO or at the very least make it a minimal mmo game in time ending up as f2p. Although one can make the arguement that DF has doomed itself from getgo with its failed launch, confusing customers service and so on it remains to be seen.
Yeah i liked how he said "but clearly since you arent that experienced in the mmo genre or the rpg genre in general" to me yet i started playing MMO's 8 years before he even tried one. my e-peen just grew.
And I like how you keep making assumptions of me even though you havnt talked about anything else then which camera view to use, that says something about you doesnt it.
And Il be a monkeys bared ass uncle if you were more experienced in the RPG genre then me, to me you just sound like a FPS crazed ex counter strike player who once played EQ and like Oblivion.
You totaly reject any idea of change as some "WoW fanboy hate comment". But like I said earlier guess that says alot about you huh
oh and next time Id sugest checking up the member before you make a statement about facts. Since you at 21 couldnt possibly have played 8 before I entered the MMO genre... but then again I guess one could only expect bright people to do so
Haha ok. I give you that my first post was not so constructive, and included the word WoW and noob. Not together tho. It was a post made out of boredom. However, i haven't mentioned any FPS game and certainly not counter-strike. Haven't mentioned Oblivion either. So i dont know what you are smoking but its probably pretty good stuff. I also posted 2 posts after that one that was constructive and gave my opinion.
And yes i had only been 10 for a while when i first played Meridian 59 on school computers, so your comment about me not possibly could have played 8 years before you entered the mmo scene is not true. Anyways, this discussion between you and me is pretty much pointless now. Just reply jinzounin's post, since he said it better then i could have ever done. But you seem to have avoided answering it=)
yes we are getting away from the subject arent we. But I think the views are so fundamentaly different that this discussion basicly have gone in to a deadlock and I have no wish to reply to that guys post, why because either he cant read right, or hes just defending the game.. or he pretends to know stuff when he doesnt know shit.. atleast thats what I feel reading what hes typing. I mean if you seriously think the level of detail is the same then for a 1st and 3rd person view..
He picks out stuff from my bio I havnt changed in years and keeps throwing oblivion and fallout 3 out, this game doesnt have even half of the budget of any of those, further more Oblivion and fallout 3 should be considered hyped because of their history (oblivion=morro wind and fallout.. well prev fallout games), mortal online got none. Theres also the amusing fact that both games allow for 3rd person view. Must say to attack me claiming I only know of WoW was funny though I give you that.
so what Ive red I consider him to be.. well wouldnt say socially challenged but he doesnt do his homework very well, he doesnt really go on subject but keeps repeating himself. If I should too for once, take any MMO to date, pick one doesnt matter which then compare how it looks from 3rd to 1p view, its so easy. It doesnt get more simple.
My standpoint still lasts its foolish not to allow 3rd person view, its dumb and not well thought trough. The head designer is not someone that should have a more advance rule then cleaning the toilets. Maybe thats a bit rough but hes more of the philosophic/hippie guy who cares more about his "art" then the gameplay and its mechanics.
With that said dont get me wrong Im still interested in the game and although I may not buy it straight away Il probably get the trial once released.
And yes you havnt been playing in the RPG genre longer then I am, Im 3 years ahead of you as for mmo genre I played runescape back in the day, its ignorant and foolish to make such a comment.. just saying not that it has any matter whatsoever I have played more games then most folks, that includes mmo's but that doesnt matter in this discussion. However it do reflect upon your statements
Ah, but it seems you are the one who cannot read. You did not directly reply to one thing I posted, which were all valid points and grammatically correct. For some reason, nothing you have posted here has been the least bit close to grammatically correct. Although I didn't want to bring that up, by bringing my intellect into question I am guiltless in throwing your lack of intelligence into the open. Have you figured out how to use Your, You're, and There Their and They're yet? It's not too hard, and if you want a lesson I can teach you. And by the way, all of my points were valid; you seem to recall nothing of the terminology I used. Ever heard of seamless tiles? I guess if you really knew anything you were arguing you wouldn't be arguing at all. Textures are only as good as the textures themselves; you seem to reek of the problems that hit games during the Nintendo 64 generation (That was a while ago). Oh, and if you seem to believe your knowledge was so great, why is it that you felt the need to change your Bio? By disregarding all valid points I made you only show that you have not done your homework, or that you seem to know nothing of what you quickly spew into an argument. Just consider it this way: If you want to win an argument, you have to provide examples, not just biased opinion-based knowledge(By the way, opinion-based knowledge doesn't exist, there is knowledge and there is opinion. You think your opinion makes fact, That's a logical fallacy. If you don't know what that is please feel free to google.)
Now, getting closer to the point, you really seem to point out all kinds of biased hatred towards the developers. Since when did being 'a hippie' make you a worse game developer? Let's stop using fallacies, because if you googled fallacies like I told you, you would notice that's what is called an Ad hominem. You are going after him personally instead of the viewpoint, which is committing a fallacy- if you are ever in a debate I would suggest not using such a method. (I am educated, so I guess that helps to back up an argument. I suggest you begin to work less on trolling and more on educating yourself.)
Finally, to get back to the point.. They are creating a consistent game, and if you have a problem with that I suggest you stop looking within these forums to start up a cause. If you want to start up a cause for change, I believe you would find it more beneficial if you allowed someone who is better educated and logical to represent your views. First person view will be in the game, as it is clearly the goal of the developers. Maybe they won't get that many players, but at least they are doing something productive instead of finding people to argue a useless point with. This game will have first person view, the end. I hope you enjoyed arguing a point that you so clearly lost.
Comments
lol They don't have to get over it, they just won't play it. That's money lost which means its incredibly stupid on the part of Star Vault. Personally, I love 1st person, and am finally glad to have an mmorpg where i can play 1st person AND see my weapons, hands, etc. But i can't really understand why people can't have a choice. It's not like people asking for a PvE server on a PvP-centric game, its a client-side feature that is a cakewalk to turn on and yields no gameplay advantage in PvP.
Forcing 1st person only = money lost, reduction in overall player base may affect gameplay (empty worlds suck)
Giving a choice = money gained, no gameplay impact
Agreed because all they have to do is make the first person view optional and more people will be happy to play.
Wrong, go through the whole thread, its not just a simple view, 3rd person view gives an advantage over first person, if they allow for 3rd person then the whole game might as well be 3rd person because thats how everyone would play it. Therefore if they take away the 3rd person view everyone is equal with the view style they want their game played in. Money lost or not, we have 3rd person view games all over the place, a supremely 1st person game is few and far between. So.. in short, 3rd person viewers.. you take all the other games out there, let the 1st person viewers take MO.
1-st person can work out well if it's implemented right.
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
1st person view only... in a mmo.. what a put off. Itl make the graphic sucks.. I mean the closer you zoom with camera the worse it looks, also runnin around like that.. well Ive never played a FPS game very long and I cant see others here (which are RPG folks, not FPS folks) doing it, itl get very old, really fast.
But say wouldnt there just be possible to make a third person addon if its clientbased?
why is this thread even still breathing
We've come to a conclusion already - There are three sides divided on the subject:
1 - The conservatives. They condemn the game and will not play it because it does not follow suit of all the other MMO's with the perspective of the gameplay.
2 - The neutrals. They're probably going to try the game. Even if they don't, they don't really give a damn about the perspective.
3 - The fans. They have been waiting to try out first person in an online RPG game experience.
No matter how much people complain about it, there will only be a first person mode. It has been like that from the start, and is one of the main features of the game. Telling them to add a 3rd person view, could most likely create some balancing issues, which in turn would make every player have to choose the view with allows them to be better.. removing the whole purpose of having different view modes in the first place.
(I know someone probably has said that already, thought I didn't want to read the 100s of replies already here.)
4. I registered for the beta, I'm still going to try it. I just think it would be enhanced by an OTS view. The blindness and dirt in the eyes can easily be implemented with an OTS view... Just like say, a combination of Killzone and Drake's Fortune. Just apply the impairment graphics for both viewpoints. It might also be a good idea to make the FPV automatic when using ranged weaponry.
H A D O K E N !
The 3rd person view in Everquest sucked ass so everyone used 1st person and it was totally fine. You newbs are spoiled by vanilla MMO's like WoW.
Im sorry to burst all of your bubbles but if youd be on MO forums youd know that there IS 3rd person view when mounted.
So...Might as just shush.
There's no other view than in first person.
Not even while mounted, while swimming, while running, while farting.
Only FPV.
--
/thread
Remember, your advantage lies in your opponent's weakness (J)
The 3rd person view in Everquest sucked ass so everyone used 1st person and it was totally fine. You newbs are spoiled by vanilla MMO's like WoW.
Ive been in the genre for almost a decade ok.. so please dont lower yourself to WoW-noob-calling, as for EQ well I didnt enjoy it much so I dont really know what to say there but in a RPG game why would you want to have the 1st person view to me thats just annoying (perhaps thats what they realised too when they made EQ2!) , as for the balance there are countless ways to solve that. Ex adding a camera spec seeing what the 1st person sees in a third person view and then only showing background in the rest of the picture.
I know it to be a mistake they will pay dearly for, they want to immerge the player and the world making you feel part of something.. well thats fine but it could be done just as good if not even better in 3rd view.
I mean imagine the really large pvp battles, you wont see anything in melee.. in a sense youl be fighting blindly because of the horde of players that are too close to look at as different players, itl just be a mass of colors.
Its hard to see wheter or not this will be good or bad, maybe Im wrong, maybe first person view is great, a lot of games let you choose and most pick 3rd view and its not because it gives any advantage over the first person view that folks picks it, its because thats the way they like it.
but clearly since you arent that experienced in the mmo genre or the rpg genre in general, you have no real life view on what the RPG gamers want so you continue to spew out nonsense. A game is a commercial product were a company sells it to a customer and it is the duty to know what the customer want, also to look at the genre, sure you may revulotionize but cmon first person RPG games are so 1990s. The avatars look better in 3rd view, the world looks better and the combat looks better.
lol They don't have to get over it, they just won't play it. That's money lost which means its incredibly stupid on the part of Star Vault. Personally, I love 1st person, and am finally glad to have an mmorpg where i can play 1st person AND see my weapons, hands, etc. But i can't really understand why people can't have a choice. It's not like people asking for a PvE server on a PvP-centric game, its a client-side feature that is a cakewalk to turn on and yields no gameplay advantage in PvP.
Forcing 1st person only = money lost, reduction in overall player base may affect gameplay (empty worlds suck)
Giving a choice = money gained, no gameplay impact
Sorry for the double post didn't realize I couldn't type on this forum with the current change, have to switch it to BBML mode.. anyhow I agree with the poster I quoted above... No 3rd person view equates to loss of my interest in the game... I'm not a fan of 1st person, in fact I get turned around and lost so easily in 1st person that is one reason I don't enjoy shooters, and the main reason I don't play single player FP games... And I don't think that those that like 3P view are the minority either.
Okay, I don't usually post on these forums, but this one got me really riled up.
First of all, anyone who is complaining about 1st person view is making an invalid argument for a game that won't want to hear it. Mortal Online is geared for REALISM and sandbox gameplay, not for cookie-cutter MMORPG mechanics. Since when have MMORPGs ever given first person views, let you kill anyone anywhere, or even let you aim attacks for that matter? They aren't trying to appeal to the WoW players or even the EQ players, they are looking to a whole new audience and being inventive.
Next point: to whoever made the comment about it looking worse closer up? That is the most ridiculous comment I've ever heard. Which engine in the past 2 years does that apply to? That is completely absurd, and if you look into the Unreal Engine maybe you'll understand how ridiculous that sounded. And since when was combat worse or anything worse because the view was 1st person instead of 3rd person? Have you ever played TES: Oblivion? I used first person view throughout that game and had a blast- they aren't looking to make games unrealistic just so you can see 'how sweet' your character looks, they're making it so you can play a game which is realistic and consistent in that in all aspects.
And to the guy who said that it will be 3rd person while mounted; look at the newer videos and look through the forums. They will explain that so far they have found the mechanics to allow for 1st person view on mounts, and because of this they may never have to allow any 3rd person gameplay at all(PS THATS THEIR GOAL)
I for one want to play this game MORE because it is consistent in 1st person view- that is not a turn-off that is the ideal game for me. I'm not sure who else agrees with me, but I guess someone does and they're making an awesome game out of it.
The 3rd person view in Everquest sucked ass so everyone used 1st person and it was totally fine. You newbs are spoiled by vanilla MMO's like WoW.
Ive been in the genre for almost a decade ok.. so please dont lower yourself to WoW-noob-calling, as for EQ well I didnt enjoy it much so I dont really know what to say there but in a RPG game why would you want to have the 1st person view to me thats just annoying (perhaps thats what they realised too when they made EQ2!) , as for the balance there are countless ways to solve that. Ex adding a camera spec seeing what the 1st person sees in a third person view and then only showing background in the rest of the picture.
I know it to be a mistake they will pay dearly for, they want to immerge the player and the world making you feel part of something.. well thats fine but it could be done just as good if not even better in 3rd view.
I mean imagine the really large pvp battles, you wont see anything in melee.. in a sense youl be fighting blindly because of the horde of players that are too close to look at as different players, itl just be a mass of colors.
Its hard to see wheter or not this will be good or bad, maybe Im wrong, maybe first person view is great, a lot of games let you choose and most pick 3rd view and its not because it gives any advantage over the first person view that folks picks it, its because thats the way they like it.
but clearly since you arent that experienced in the mmo genre or the rpg genre in general, you have no real life view on what the RPG gamers want so you continue to spew out nonsense. A game is a commercial product were a company sells it to a customer and it is the duty to know what the customer want, also to look at the genre, sure you may revulotionize but cmon first person RPG games are so 1990s. The avatars look better in 3rd view, the world looks better and the combat looks better.
You are right, the majority may prefer third person view. I enjoy third person view too, i still play EQ2 and Shadowbane as a matter of fact.
But they are not making the next mainstream MMO, they are making their own niche game. And lots of people love it. The people that fit into the niche genre. If they wanted high subscription numbers they would not make it a FFA Full loot PvP game in the first place, dont ya think? The forced 1st person view is just one more thing that makes the game different and more skill based.
As for your one example of the "countless" ways to solve the pvp issues with third person view, i dont think anyone would want to design/program that. Would be hard not to make annoying/dumb.
As for how the 1st person view feels in massive battles, who knows we'll have to wait and see. 80+ people pvp battles whilst in first person in EQ was just fine however.
Wow, i managed to give a calm and constructive reply. I was going to leave a simple flame at first. Would have been easier:P
Oh come on. If they were so worried about commercial sucess they would not have made a first person/free for all pvp/full loot MMO in the first place. THEY KNOW ITS NOT WHAT THE MAINSTREAM AUDIENCE WANTS(sry for caps just making sure you get it). There's no reason to question their knowledge about marketing. They know they are making a mmo that a small group(sandbox fans) like. Any sandbox fan that doesnt know about MO when the game is close to release is simply not in the market for a new MMO anyway.
Oh and i'm going to guess by the treehugger(simply because he was filmed in a forest and knows 100x about the world he lives in then you) you mean Mats Persson. He writes some great posts about this stuff, you should read em all.
Oh come on. If they were so worried about commercial sucess they would not have made a first person/free for all pvp/full loot MMO in the first place. THEY KNOW ITS NOT WHAT THE MAINSTREAM AUDIENCE WANTS(sry for caps just making sure you get it). There's no reason to question their knowledge about marketing. They know they are making a mmo that a small group(sandbox fans) like. Any sandbox fan that doesnt know about MO when the game is close to release is simply not in the market for a new MMO anyway.
well even niche games need to adapt and ask their fans for what they want, in this case I think its just ridicoulus they would deny their fans and customers this, I dont buy them saying itl ruin gameplay, thats bullshit. Why cant they atleast give the possibility to do so, every other 1st person RPG I know of allows a 3rd view
Oh and i'm going to guess by the treehugger(simply because he was filmed in a forest and knows 100x about the world he lives in then you) you mean Mats Persson. He writes some great posts about this stuff, you should read em all.
No hes a.. hmm I would say hippie but more of the retarded way away from peace and all that but rather that of a roleplayer playing his game in real life, hes.. special. Maybe thats good but.. well to me he looks like the ultimate geek and I have infact red some of his work, hes innovative Il give you that but.. not really outstanding as a storyteller or a tech geniues
as for him knowing more about the world then I do.. well perhaps if we lived on Mars... this guy isnt really into the real world very much... Still a tree hugger
Yeah i liked how he said "but clearly since you arent that experienced in the mmo genre or the rpg genre in general" to me yet i started playing MMO's 8 years before he even tried one.
my e-peen just grew.
And I like how you keep making assumptions of me even though you havnt talked about anything else then which camera view to use, that says something about you doesnt it.
And Il be a monkeys bared ass uncle if you were more experienced in the RPG genre then me, to me you just sound like a FPS crazed ex counter strike player who once played EQ and like Oblivion.
You totaly reject any idea of change as some "WoW fanboy hate comment". But like I said earlier guess that says alot about you huh
oh and next time Id sugest checking up the member before you make a statement about facts. Since you at 21 couldnt possibly have played 8 before I entered the MMO genre... but then again I guess one could only expect bright people to do so
And I like how you keep making assumptions of me even though you havnt talked about anything else then which camera view to use, that says something about you doesnt it.
And Il be a monkeys bared ass uncle if you were more experienced in the RPG genre then me, to me you just sound like a FPS crazed ex counter strike player who once played EQ and like Oblivion.
You totaly reject any idea of change as some "WoW fanboy hate comment". But like I said earlier guess that says alot about you huh
oh and next time Id sugest checking up the member before you make a statement about facts. Since you at 21 couldnt possibly have played 8 before I entered the MMO genre... but then again I guess one could only expect bright people to do so
Haha ok. I give you that my first post was not so constructive, and included the word WoW and noob. Not together tho. It was a post made out of boredom. However, i haven't mentioned any FPS game and certainly not counter-strike. Haven't mentioned Oblivion either. So i dont know what you are smoking but its probably pretty good stuff. I also posted 2 posts after that one that was constructive and gave my opinion.
And yes i had only been 10 for a while when i first played Meridian 59 on school computers, so your comment about me not possibly could have played 8 years before you entered the mmo scene is not true. Anyways, this discussion between you and me is pretty much pointless now. Just reply jinzounin's post, since he said it better then i could have ever done. But you seem to have avoided answering it=)
And I like how you keep making assumptions of me even though you havnt talked about anything else then which camera view to use, that says something about you doesnt it.
And Il be a monkeys bared ass uncle if you were more experienced in the RPG genre then me, to me you just sound like a FPS crazed ex counter strike player who once played EQ and like Oblivion.
You totaly reject any idea of change as some "WoW fanboy hate comment". But like I said earlier guess that says alot about you huh
oh and next time Id sugest checking up the member before you make a statement about facts. Since you at 21 couldnt possibly have played 8 before I entered the MMO genre... but then again I guess one could only expect bright people to do so
Haha ok. I give you that my first post was not so constructive, and included the word WoW and noob. Not together tho. It was a post made out of boredom. However, i haven't mentioned any FPS game and certainly not counter-strike. Haven't mentioned Oblivion either. So i dont know what you are smoking but its probably pretty good stuff. I also posted 2 posts after that one that was constructive and gave my opinion.
And yes i had only been 10 for a while when i first played Meridian 59 on school computers, so your comment about me not possibly could have played 8 years before you entered the mmo scene is not true. Anyways, this discussion between you and me is pretty much pointless now. Just reply jinzounin's post, since he said it better then i could have ever done. But you seem to have avoided answering it=)
yes we are getting away from the subject arent we. But I think the views are so fundamentaly different that this discussion basicly have gone in to a deadlock and I have no wish to reply to that guys post, why because either he cant read right, or hes just defending the game.. or he pretends to know stuff when he doesnt know shit.. atleast thats what I feel reading what hes typing. I mean if you seriously think the level of detail is the same then for a 1st and 3rd person view..
He picks out stuff from my bio I havnt changed in years and keeps throwing oblivion and fallout 3 out, this game doesnt have even half of the budget of any of those, further more Oblivion and fallout 3 should be considered hyped because of their history (oblivion=morro wind and fallout.. well prev fallout games), mortal online got none. Theres also the amusing fact that both games allow for 3rd person view. Must say to attack me claiming I only know of WoW was funny though I give you that.
so what Ive red I consider him to be.. well wouldnt say socially challenged but he doesnt do his homework very well, he doesnt really go on subject but keeps repeating himself. If I should too for once, take any MMO to date, pick one doesnt matter which then compare how it looks from 3rd to 1p view, its so easy. It doesnt get more simple.
My standpoint still lasts its foolish not to allow 3rd person view, its dumb and not well thought trough. The head designer is not someone that should have a more advance rule then cleaning the toilets. Maybe thats a bit rough but hes more of the philosophic/hippie guy who cares more about his "art" then the gameplay and its mechanics.
With that said dont get me wrong Im still interested in the game and although I may not buy it straight away Il probably get the trial once released.
And yes you havnt been playing in the RPG genre longer then I am, Im 3 years ahead of you as for mmo genre I played runescape back in the day, its ignorant and foolish to make such a comment.. just saying not that it has any matter whatsoever I have played more games then most folks, that includes mmo's but that doesnt matter in this discussion. However it do reflect upon your statements
The head designer is not someone that should have a more advance rule then cleaning the toilets. Maybe thats a bit rough but hes more of the philosophic/hippie guy who cares more about his "art" then the gameplay and its mechanics.
And yes you havnt been playing in the RPG genre longer then I am, Im 3 years ahead of you as for mmo genre I played runescape back in the day, its ignorant and foolish to make such a comment.. just saying not that it has any matter whatsoever I have played more games then most folks, that includes mmo's but that doesnt matter in this discussion. However it do reflect upon your statements
Your slander about the head designer just shows that you aint one should listen to. Shows bad character.
Runescape classic was released in 2001 so i dont see what you mean? Anyways. Last post here so this thread can go back on topic.
[quote]
Originally posted by toxzik
I have no need to justify myself. I believe you among others are only posting as fanboys and couldnt give a dam about critisizing the game, or its quality everything they do is perfect and critiques are considered noobs or that they dont understand or some other bullshit, you attack the author at any moments instead of stating the facts and give descent arguements why or why not this is good. Id have a more civilized discussion with a parrot. (although maybe not as amusing)
This is final, isnt it. Its a mistake and its one made by the head designer/project leader. Its a really bad call to say the least, this is not a subjective thought, its commercially proven. They dont want former MMO players the lead designer says but a new audience. Oblivion and Fallout 3 certainly made this happen thats fact sure but you cant compare a single player game with a MMO. As for EQ well its been more then half a decade.
I can only wish MO fans the best of luck, Il keep peaking on this game but pay for it I will not. This game will live or fall depending on two matters. The first is their quest to get new gamers amongst their ranks, players who havnt been in the MMO genre previously. Secondly Darkfall, should the game fail MO is bound to have lots of its fans flooding into the game and with no competition so even more members beyond those who already were fans. Should DF live and even prosper MO will find itself in a much more grave situation. If it prospers it will most likely spell the end of MO or at the very least make it a minimal mmo game in time ending up as f2p.
Although one can make the arguement that DF has doomed itself from getgo with its failed launch, confusing customers service and so on it remains to be seen.
And I like how you keep making assumptions of me even though you havnt talked about anything else then which camera view to use, that says something about you doesnt it.
And Il be a monkeys bared ass uncle if you were more experienced in the RPG genre then me, to me you just sound like a FPS crazed ex counter strike player who once played EQ and like Oblivion.
You totaly reject any idea of change as some "WoW fanboy hate comment". But like I said earlier guess that says alot about you huh
oh and next time Id sugest checking up the member before you make a statement about facts. Since you at 21 couldnt possibly have played 8 before I entered the MMO genre... but then again I guess one could only expect bright people to do so
Haha ok. I give you that my first post was not so constructive, and included the word WoW and noob. Not together tho. It was a post made out of boredom. However, i haven't mentioned any FPS game and certainly not counter-strike. Haven't mentioned Oblivion either. So i dont know what you are smoking but its probably pretty good stuff. I also posted 2 posts after that one that was constructive and gave my opinion.
And yes i had only been 10 for a while when i first played Meridian 59 on school computers, so your comment about me not possibly could have played 8 years before you entered the mmo scene is not true. Anyways, this discussion between you and me is pretty much pointless now. Just reply jinzounin's post, since he said it better then i could have ever done. But you seem to have avoided answering it=)
yes we are getting away from the subject arent we. But I think the views are so fundamentaly different that this discussion basicly have gone in to a deadlock and I have no wish to reply to that guys post, why because either he cant read right, or hes just defending the game.. or he pretends to know stuff when he doesnt know shit.. atleast thats what I feel reading what hes typing. I mean if you seriously think the level of detail is the same then for a 1st and 3rd person view..
He picks out stuff from my bio I havnt changed in years and keeps throwing oblivion and fallout 3 out, this game doesnt have even half of the budget of any of those, further more Oblivion and fallout 3 should be considered hyped because of their history (oblivion=morro wind and fallout.. well prev fallout games), mortal online got none. Theres also the amusing fact that both games allow for 3rd person view. Must say to attack me claiming I only know of WoW was funny though I give you that.
so what Ive red I consider him to be.. well wouldnt say socially challenged but he doesnt do his homework very well, he doesnt really go on subject but keeps repeating himself. If I should too for once, take any MMO to date, pick one doesnt matter which then compare how it looks from 3rd to 1p view, its so easy. It doesnt get more simple.
My standpoint still lasts its foolish not to allow 3rd person view, its dumb and not well thought trough. The head designer is not someone that should have a more advance rule then cleaning the toilets. Maybe thats a bit rough but hes more of the philosophic/hippie guy who cares more about his "art" then the gameplay and its mechanics.
With that said dont get me wrong Im still interested in the game and although I may not buy it straight away Il probably get the trial once released.
And yes you havnt been playing in the RPG genre longer then I am, Im 3 years ahead of you as for mmo genre I played runescape back in the day, its ignorant and foolish to make such a comment.. just saying not that it has any matter whatsoever I have played more games then most folks, that includes mmo's but that doesnt matter in this discussion. However it do reflect upon your statements
Ah, but it seems you are the one who cannot read. You did not directly reply to one thing I posted, which were all valid points and grammatically correct. For some reason, nothing you have posted here has been the least bit close to grammatically correct. Although I didn't want to bring that up, by bringing my intellect into question I am guiltless in throwing your lack of intelligence into the open. Have you figured out how to use Your, You're, and There Their and They're yet? It's not too hard, and if you want a lesson I can teach you. And by the way, all of my points were valid; you seem to recall nothing of the terminology I used. Ever heard of seamless tiles? I guess if you really knew anything you were arguing you wouldn't be arguing at all. Textures are only as good as the textures themselves; you seem to reek of the problems that hit games during the Nintendo 64 generation (That was a while ago). Oh, and if you seem to believe your knowledge was so great, why is it that you felt the need to change your Bio? By disregarding all valid points I made you only show that you have not done your homework, or that you seem to know nothing of what you quickly spew into an argument. Just consider it this way: If you want to win an argument, you have to provide examples, not just biased opinion-based knowledge(By the way, opinion-based knowledge doesn't exist, there is knowledge and there is opinion. You think your opinion makes fact, That's a logical fallacy. If you don't know what that is please feel free to google.)
Now, getting closer to the point, you really seem to point out all kinds of biased hatred towards the developers. Since when did being 'a hippie' make you a worse game developer? Let's stop using fallacies, because if you googled fallacies like I told you, you would notice that's what is called an Ad hominem. You are going after him personally instead of the viewpoint, which is committing a fallacy- if you are ever in a debate I would suggest not using such a method. (I am educated, so I guess that helps to back up an argument. I suggest you begin to work less on trolling and more on educating yourself.)
Finally, to get back to the point.. They are creating a consistent game, and if you have a problem with that I suggest you stop looking within these forums to start up a cause. If you want to start up a cause for change, I believe you would find it more beneficial if you allowed someone who is better educated and logical to represent your views. First person view will be in the game, as it is clearly the goal of the developers. Maybe they won't get that many players, but at least they are doing something productive instead of finding people to argue a useless point with. This game will have first person view, the end. I hope you enjoyed arguing a point that you so clearly lost.