We as players are guilty of over-hyping a game, take for instance the latest trailer for TSW, someone posted an off the cuff remark that the game would probably have housing in it becuase it was there in the trailer.
Now suddenly ppl start to become excited about the prospect of housing in a game that has barely shown it's hand, the hype begins and it's then driven by the community.
I'l admit the developers play their part aswell, but lets add a smidgen of common sense when we read such things as "The player will have a meaningful and lasting impact on the world around them" come on who here really believes that when it's added as a proposed feature, most of us who have played enough MMO's know this to be pure fantasy, and part of the tried and tested formulae that nearly all devs use when advertising thier game to the market.
The standards set are invaribly too high, both by us and the developers, the tech isn't far enough along to be able to deliver on some of the lofty promises made these days, the whole MMO genre really hasn't come that far since the days of Meridian 59, oh the graphics chave certainly come a long way but other than a few tweaks here and there the gameplay is basically the same.
Look at this very website for our own Hype meter, look at how fans are organised by fansites to vote enmasse for their favourite games to win them awards and accolades from thier peers. We the players are more at fault than any developer for over-hyping a game.
Personally I prefer the approach that Funcom has taken with TSW, keep as much info as possible under wraps, this add an air of mystique to the whole project, drives the fans wild with anticipation for even the smallest bit of info, then when your getting closer to inviting ppl to the beta you make as much noise as possible to grab the markets attention, it doesn't take long with the way everyone is connected today, within a matter of a few days news of your product has spread like a virus over Youtube via "sneaked" previews of beta play, then you come to sites like this with over 1 million members to promo your trailers and screenshots and drip feed us titbits of info to tantalise us.
I'l admit the developers play their part aswell, but lets add a smidgen of common sense when we read such things as "The player will have a meaningful and lasting impact on the world around them" come on who here really believes that when it's added as a proposed feature, most of us who have played enough MMO's know this to be pure fantasy, and part of the tried and tested formulae that nearly all devs use when advertising thier game to the market.
This is exactly what I am talking about. If the devs make claims, it is not the players fault for reacting to them.
What you said above is that it is basically common practice for developers to lie to players about the state of their game and somehow the negative outcome is caused by the players? I just cannot buy into that line of thinking. If the developers didn't mislead the audience in the first place then this would not be an issue.
I just can't blame players for the outcome of how companies hype their games. You are 100% correct that players should be much more savy to such ploys now, but this market is still growing at a crazy rate. However, I look at the vast majority of games that are released and ask myself, would I buy something in this condition if it was not an mmo? Would I buy a spreadsheet that didn't have all the features listed? Would I subscribe to a magazing that had 1/3 of its pages empty and promised to have them filled in 6-12 months?
It isn't like there is a long list of games that released even in decent shape which is the core problem with a games hype and fan backlash as a response.
Edit: I just wanted to add that I do understand what you are saying and think you do have a good point. I don't think it is a matter of players hyping a game, but more so that they are hopeful with an increasing trend towards desperation. If that makes any sense how I worded it.
The negative backlash is a natural response to developers actions. If developers would stop hyping their games to the sky and then delivering a half finished POS, people wouldn't be upset with them.
I don't think people want games to fail, but instead they are just sick and tired of deceptive developers telling half truths. The bonds of trust can only be broken so many times before people lose faith.
In all honesty, this market should be filled with fierce competition with a few heavy weights slugging it out for top honors and a handful of fringe games catering to more specific audiences. Instead there is an whispered mantra from gamers about "this game has potential" and "give it a year and it will be great". The backlash is expected and only going to get worse if developer keep this pace going.
Not to say that it doesn't go to extremes on both sides, but that is the reality of the situation.
You forgot a 5th option: No you're stupid and have no idea how the business works.
400k subs is a, brace yourselves.. SUCCESSFUL MMO.
10m is not the mark of a successful game, it is the mark of the ONLY game that can have that much of the market share.
I don't play WAR anymore and I don't think it's even a good game, but some people do and those people can and will keep playing and mythic can and will keep making "improvements."
You forgot a 5th option: No you're stupid and have no idea how the business works.
400k subs is a, brace yourselves.. SUCCESSFUL MMO.
10m is not the mark of a successful game, it is the mark of the ONLY game that can have that much of the market share.
I don't play WAR anymore and I don't think it's even a good game, but some people do and those people can and will keep playing and mythic can and will keep making "improvements."
1) They weren't at 400k anymore already back in December.
2) 300k *is* decently succesful *if* prolongued over a period of time. So far all we've seen of WAR is 750k+ to 300k+ 3 months later.
By 2 measures of MJ's own saying the game isn't a succes either by their own standards. He said A) if they were merging within 6 months that's not a sign of success (albeit the context was for a different MMO at the time. and If they had 500k+ subs he'd consider the game to be successful. Lost that one after a month or two.
If you take a snapshot of WAR and say 300k subs!!. Sure, good number compared to most MMO's out there right now.
Contrast it to other MMO's in terms of development costs, experienced MMO developers, sub drop despite high initial sales etc. And the game does not exactly make a picture perfect version of success. On the contrary, it shows a game that could have been so much more but didn't.
Basically they are already down to Daoc's peak subs which they retained for quite a while. But that was a first time MMO company (disregarding the muds), with a budget of a few million. When you compare the resources they had now, and the experience they had, it could and imo should, have been so much more.
You forgot a 5th option: No you're stupid and have no idea how the business works.
400k subs is a, brace yourselves.. SUCCESSFUL MMO.
Mark Jacobs:
With EA and the resources backing Warhammer Online, I asked Jacobs how one would measure a successful MMO in the age of WoW with its 11 million worldwide subscribers. I would say we dont have to get anywhere near that number to be considered successful, he said. Would I like us to be number one? Well, of course. Do we have to be number one to be successful? No. I want us to be no less than number two; that would make me very happy.For the number two spot, Jacobs reasoned that Warhammer would need at least a half-million subscribers, which he guessed was close to what Final Fantasy and EverQuest 2 have now. Lets just say north of half a million would mean were successful.
Brace yourself: Mark Jacobs, Head of Warhammer says they aren't successful.
You forgot a 5th option: No you're stupid and have no idea how the business works.
400k subs is a, brace yourselves.. SUCCESSFUL MMO.
Mark Jacobs:
With EA and the resources backing “Warhammer Online,” I asked Jacobs how one would measure a successful MMO in the age of “WoW” with its 11 million worldwide subscribers. “I would say we don’t have to get anywhere near that number to be considered successful,” he said. “Would I like us to be number one? Well, of course. Do we have to be number one to be successful? No. I want us to be no less than number two; that would make me very happy.”For the number two spot, Jacobs reasoned that “Warhammer” would need at least a half-million subscribers, which he guessed was close to what “Final Fantasy” and “EverQuest 2” have now. “Let’s just say north of half a million would mean we’re successful.
Brace yourself: Mark Jacobs, Head of Warhammer says they aren't successful.
They are a bit short of their expectations, and everyone holds themselves to high standards and it is good to be optomisitc. So they might not be the success that they had hoped, and planed to be now, but as long as they have enough subs to keep the game viable they have time to improve it. Lets hope that EA will give them the time to improve on the strong foundation they have now, and I think they will be able to get above that 500k mark. I'll even play the game if things seem to be improving in it.
Will just have to give it a chance and see how things turn out. It's rare to become a success overnight without a large amount of hard work and effort. Just too bad they didn't do the hard work before launch though, because then I think they would more then likely meet their goal of 2nd place.
You forgot a 5th option: No you're stupid and have no idea how the business works.
400k subs is a, brace yourselves.. SUCCESSFUL MMO.
Mark Jacobs:
With EA and the resources backing Warhammer Online, I asked Jacobs how one would measure a successful MMO in the age of WoW with its 11 million worldwide subscribers. I would say we dont have to get anywhere near that number to be considered successful, he said. Would I like us to be number one? Well, of course. Do we have to be number one to be successful? No. I want us to be no less than number two; that would make me very happy.For the number two spot, Jacobs reasoned that Warhammer would need at least a half-million subscribers, which he guessed was close to what Final Fantasy and EverQuest 2 have now. Lets just say north of half a million would mean were successful.
Brace yourself: Mark Jacobs, Head of Warhammer says they aren't successful.
They are a bit short of their expectations, and everyone holds themselves to high standards and it is good to be optomisitc. So they might not be the success that they had hoped, and planed to be now, but as long as they have enough subs to keep the game viable they have time to improve it. Lets hope that EA will give them the time to improve on the strong foundation they have now, and I think they will be able to get above that 500k mark. I'll even play the game if things seem to be improving in it. Will just have to give it a chance and see how things turn out. It's rare to become a success overnight without a large amount of hard work and effort. Just too bad they didn't do the hard work before launch though, because then I think they would more then likely meet their goal of 2nd place.
I wouldn't consider 200k subscribers a "bit short" but I guess some might if they weren't running a MMO. If they had a MMO with 200k subs, they'd be probably fairly happy with that number, so it's fairly significant.
The point of the post is that guy saying 400k is successful is his own idea that WAR is successful. The maker of WAR had an ideal number, based on available potential subscribers and cash outlay what HE thought was a watermark of success. He gave it in a quote for an interview. He did not later call the interviewer and ask for a retraction in error, because he honestly believes this is his cutoff number.
Now I did not say rampant success or WoW-like numbers. Just success. When he gave a number of 500K in order to be considered successful he knew already what his target was. When WAR falls well below +500k subs as they obviously have done, then you look at the aftermath: 64 server closings and two rounds of layoffs (so far) and remember it wasn't a troll's speculative guess but the CEO of the company, you are only left with one conclusion.
When Mythic announced officially the last quarter numbers at 300K, they did not say "This proves WAR is a success", and I'm sure stockholders didn't go: "Hmmm. +500k... 300k. Yep, seems successful to me."
I'd like to see some hard facts from both sides of the argument before ppl throw around subscriber numbers as anything other than conjecture.
Your not going to know unless your in a position within Mythic to glean that info, as players all we can do is guess and that guess could be way way off the mark.
I for one like to wait and see.. There's lots of good in it and bad. Balance is one thing i dont like in WAR, its not the worst but neither the best. And the itemization crap what they brought up with the dungeon sets is kinda lame way to get the game few more months more lifetime. And the performance, geez... this game supposed to have great huge battles and now it cant handle them... But really those few are only things that bothers me in it. Still much less than those that wont.
Still playing tho, best pvp in ages. They should have done DAOC 2 to be honest.
the best way to kill a troll is to FLAME ON! ...or with acid...
Well after some digging I found their last reported fiscal report, it's a bit old now with it being the one produced for December but it does show that EA say the subs are over 300k.
Alot can happen between Dec and Apr though, considering the free trial, it will be interesting to see the 4th quarter results, and wether the 1,100 layoffs are the last for EA.
Highlights
•EA was the leading publisher in North America with approximately 20 percent segment share according to NPD. In Europe, EA was number two behind Nintendo with an estimated 16 percent segment share.
•EA had 13 titles rated 80 or above in calendar 2008 – up from seven a year ago.
•FIFA 09 was EA’s best selling title with 7.8 million copies and charted at number one across all platforms in Europe in the holiday quarter.
•Rock Band was the number one title across all platforms in North America for calendar 2008, based on NPD data.
•Need for Speed Undercover sold 5.2M copies. For fiscal year 2010, the Company will launch three separate versions of Need For Speed (NFS), NFS Shift for the PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system and Xbox 360® video game and entertainment system, NFS Nitro for the Wii™ and Nintendo DS™ and NFS World Online for the PC.
•LITTLEST PET SHOP sold 2.8 million copies on the Nintendo DS, Wii and PC. In the holiday quarter, it was a top-five title on the Nintendo DS in Europe and North America, based on NPD data.
•Warhammer® Online: Age of Reckoning®, an MMO from EA’s Mythic Entertainment studio, ended the quarter with over 300K paying subscribers in North America and Europe.
•EA’s digital direct-to-consumer revenue, which includes online and wireless, was $313 million year-to-date, up 27 percent year-over-year.
•Pogo™ achieved an all-time high of 1.7M paying subscribers in the quarter.
•EA Mobile™ is the world’s leading publisher of games for phones – with revenue of $50 million in the quarter – up 28 percent year-over-year.
I'd like to see some hard facts from both sides of the argument before ppl throw around subscriber numbers as anything other than conjecture. Your not going to know unless your in a position within Mythic to glean that info, as players all we can do is guess and that guess could be way way off the mark.
As you've found out, some of us don't throw numbers around lightly
Why would you close a game down? People enjoy playing it, just because you don't doesn't mean that no one else can. Very one-sided poll also. Goes from "Not sure" to "Uber" Try having an objective view to the whole situation and think of the current playerbase that enjoys the game and not only you who cannot.
Hey, we all look out for our own self interests, and some folks feel this game is broken in ways that cannot be resolved due to flaws in its core design.
As such, it is draining resources from Mythic who should be working on DAOC 2, (IMO of course) or to release a good version of WAR that more people can enjoy.
Just because 50-100K people enjoy a game doesn't mean the rest of us feel a great IP should go so underutilized.
I think I once read that WAR's engine was based on the original DAOC one and improved. That was probably a mistake if true.
Yeah thats just it with this game though isnt it. Its such a large drain on Mythics resources when they could be focusing on something else. DAoC2 would be an obvious brilliant option........but then again if the same team that worked on WAR ended up working on DAoC2 then it would probably end up being crap as well. Its very clear that the original people who worked on the first DAoC are long gone........but who knows maybe if the new team decided not to use WoW as their source of inspiration they might actually turn something out thats good. Unfortunately originality and decent game design doesnt seem to be a strong point for these guys.
Also if WAR was closed down (which obviously isnt going to happen even though it is a nice thought) then another more talented company would have the option of using the IP to make a decent game out of it. I would love to play a good well made mmo set in the Warhammer world. The current incarnation is stopping that from ever happening.
Lets hope that EA will give them the time to improve on the strong foundation they have now, and I think they will be able to get above that 500k mark. I'll even play the game if things seem to be improving in it. Will just have to give it a chance and see how things turn out. It's rare to become a success overnight without a large amount of hard work and effort. Just too bad they didn't do the hard work before launch though, because then I think they would more then likely meet their goal of 2nd place.
Looking at the mmo that's gona release this year ( if there's no delay). I'm afraid it'll be very difficult for them to gain any more subs.
And taking some reference at past mmos that have horrible launch, though have greatly improve, yet their numbers didnt really increase much. Eg VG...
So basically mmo now have only 1 chance and 1 chance only to impress and that's only during launch. If it fails to retain the subs after a few months, than the numbers that they have afterwards will basically be the only they have for the rest of the game life...
Yeah I just downloaded the DAOC trial and its cool so far, I havent played much of it yet. DAOC is a totally different game than WAR, or so it feels that way to me.
Speaking as someone who played it for a few years but haven't touched it since 2006, I would say that unless it's changed drastically, it's a totally different game from WAR. WAR is not a bad game from what I played of it, but it doesn't hold a candle to DAoC. DAoC is a much more well-rounded game than WAR.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
The game was sold to us with lies basically..Which we wanted to believe (or at least I did).
Contrary to what that fat fuck Paul Barnett said, we STILL have to collect fucking bat wings and other meaningless, bland, brainless quests (chores more like) to level.
Yes we can decide whether to level through RVR or PVE, but they are both shite, bugged, no fun, imbalanced and still a grind.
Mark Jacobs and the rest of his crew should feel a thousand shames at this pathetic attempt at this WoW clone.
By the way, I resubbed after recent patches thinking maybe it had improved...lol, my bad.
Yes please, close this pile of shit down. The game was sold to us with lies basically..Which we wanted to believe (or at least I did). Contrary to what that fat fuck Paul Barnett said, we STILL have to collect fucking bat wings and other meaningless, bland, brainless quests (chores more like) to level. Yes we can decide whether to level through RVR or PVE, but they are both shite, bugged, no fun, imbalanced and still a grind. Mark Jacobs and the rest of his crew should feel a thousand shames at this pathetic attempt at this WoW clone. By the way, I resubbed after recent patches thinking maybe it had improved...lol, my bad.
sure why not close every game down except the ones you approve of. I dont play War so i guess i dont see how it effects me.
Let us establish exactly what people think should be done about Warhammer
/bump when you vote so we can get a large and representative sample
Ok.....
I have to admit with another guy, Swanea or something like that.
This is a stupid ass poll!!!
Like they said, I don't know if you were trying to get attention or what? I mean seriously, what good is this poll going to do? Undoubtly you do have some kind of grudge or hatred towards this game. Heh, that is fine...
This just makes you look like a whiney ass person though.
You would have been much better off just asking who was happy with game, who wasn't, and a couple of options inbetween.
I played Warhammer in Beta and release. As I see it Warhammer has potential to be one of the best games out there if they were to implement the following: **WARNING: My OPINIONS are posted below, I do not claim any of this to be factual, you may disagree** No more scenarios, I think that scenarios wreck a game that is supposed to have a large portion of it's foundation based on open PvP (RvR). When I played I could never find anyone to PQ or open PvP with beacause everyone was scenario grinding. Bring in the other capital cities, and quick. Leaving each side of a war with only one objective at the end game hurts. If each side had all three of their cities it would keep things from getting stale as quick. Balance, balance, balance. This one may seem obvious, but the game does not need to be balanced to make each class viable against every other class, it needs to be balanced so that a group vs. a group will be even. I'm not sure how to complete such a feat, but this is what is needed. Do something with the combat system. I'm not sure what it is but combat in WAR to me felt sluggish and non responsive.
I think with the above things WAR could be a good game.
and also add more PvE/PvP non-instanced dungeons and the game will be near perfect, again..imo.
There are two kinds of people in this world. People who pick their nose.. and liars.
really? this is dumb. i like war, it may not be for everyone. if u dont like it, dont play it...I for one and willing to wait around to see some improvments, and in the meantime im still having fun.
Comments
We as players are guilty of over-hyping a game, take for instance the latest trailer for TSW, someone posted an off the cuff remark that the game would probably have housing in it becuase it was there in the trailer.
Now suddenly ppl start to become excited about the prospect of housing in a game that has barely shown it's hand, the hype begins and it's then driven by the community.
I'l admit the developers play their part aswell, but lets add a smidgen of common sense when we read such things as "The player will have a meaningful and lasting impact on the world around them" come on who here really believes that when it's added as a proposed feature, most of us who have played enough MMO's know this to be pure fantasy, and part of the tried and tested formulae that nearly all devs use when advertising thier game to the market.
The standards set are invaribly too high, both by us and the developers, the tech isn't far enough along to be able to deliver on some of the lofty promises made these days, the whole MMO genre really hasn't come that far since the days of Meridian 59, oh the graphics chave certainly come a long way but other than a few tweaks here and there the gameplay is basically the same.
Look at this very website for our own Hype meter, look at how fans are organised by fansites to vote enmasse for their favourite games to win them awards and accolades from thier peers. We the players are more at fault than any developer for over-hyping a game.
Personally I prefer the approach that Funcom has taken with TSW, keep as much info as possible under wraps, this add an air of mystique to the whole project, drives the fans wild with anticipation for even the smallest bit of info, then when your getting closer to inviting ppl to the beta you make as much noise as possible to grab the markets attention, it doesn't take long with the way everyone is connected today, within a matter of a few days news of your product has spread like a virus over Youtube via "sneaked" previews of beta play, then you come to sites like this with over 1 million members to promo your trailers and screenshots and drip feed us titbits of info to tantalise us.
This is exactly what I am talking about. If the devs make claims, it is not the players fault for reacting to them.
What you said above is that it is basically common practice for developers to lie to players about the state of their game and somehow the negative outcome is caused by the players? I just cannot buy into that line of thinking. If the developers didn't mislead the audience in the first place then this would not be an issue.
I just can't blame players for the outcome of how companies hype their games. You are 100% correct that players should be much more savy to such ploys now, but this market is still growing at a crazy rate. However, I look at the vast majority of games that are released and ask myself, would I buy something in this condition if it was not an mmo? Would I buy a spreadsheet that didn't have all the features listed? Would I subscribe to a magazing that had 1/3 of its pages empty and promised to have them filled in 6-12 months?
It isn't like there is a long list of games that released even in decent shape which is the core problem with a games hype and fan backlash as a response.
Edit: I just wanted to add that I do understand what you are saying and think you do have a good point. I don't think it is a matter of players hyping a game, but more so that they are hopeful with an increasing trend towards desperation. If that makes any sense how I worded it.
So, are the servers closed yet?
The negative backlash is a natural response to developers actions. If developers would stop hyping their games to the sky and then delivering a half finished POS, people wouldn't be upset with them.
I don't think people want games to fail, but instead they are just sick and tired of deceptive developers telling half truths. The bonds of trust can only be broken so many times before people lose faith.
In all honesty, this market should be filled with fierce competition with a few heavy weights slugging it out for top honors and a handful of fringe games catering to more specific audiences. Instead there is an whispered mantra from gamers about "this game has potential" and "give it a year and it will be great". The backlash is expected and only going to get worse if developer keep this pace going.
Not to say that it doesn't go to extremes on both sides, but that is the reality of the situation.
Well said! I endorse this message!
I heard they never opened.
You forgot a 5th option: No you're stupid and have no idea how the business works.
400k subs is a, brace yourselves.. SUCCESSFUL MMO.
10m is not the mark of a successful game, it is the mark of the ONLY game that can have that much of the market share.
I don't play WAR anymore and I don't think it's even a good game, but some people do and those people can and will keep playing and mythic can and will keep making "improvements."
-Sovereign
1) They weren't at 400k anymore already back in December.
2) 300k *is* decently succesful *if* prolongued over a period of time. So far all we've seen of WAR is 750k+ to 300k+ 3 months later.
By 2 measures of MJ's own saying the game isn't a succes either by their own standards. He said A) if they were merging within 6 months that's not a sign of success (albeit the context was for a different MMO at the time. and
If they had 500k+ subs he'd consider the game to be successful. Lost that one after a month or two.
If you take a snapshot of WAR and say 300k subs!!. Sure, good number compared to most MMO's out there right now.
Contrast it to other MMO's in terms of development costs, experienced MMO developers, sub drop despite high initial sales etc. And the game does not exactly make a picture perfect version of success. On the contrary, it shows a game that could have been so much more but didn't.
Basically they are already down to Daoc's peak subs which they retained for quite a while. But that was a first time MMO company (disregarding the muds), with a budget of a few million. When you compare the resources they had now, and the experience they had, it could and imo should, have been so much more.
Mark Jacobs:
With EA and the resources backing Warhammer Online, I asked Jacobs how one would measure a successful MMO in the age of WoW with its 11 million worldwide subscribers. I would say we dont have to get anywhere near that number to be considered successful, he said. Would I like us to be number one? Well, of course. Do we have to be number one to be successful? No. I want us to be no less than number two; that would make me very happy.For the number two spot, Jacobs reasoned that Warhammer would need at least a half-million subscribers, which he guessed was close to what Final Fantasy and EverQuest 2 have now. Lets just say north of half a million would mean were successful.
Brace yourself: Mark Jacobs, Head of Warhammer says they aren't successful.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Mark Jacobs:
With EA and the resources backing “Warhammer Online,” I asked Jacobs how one would measure a successful MMO in the age of “WoW” with its 11 million worldwide subscribers. “I would say we don’t have to get anywhere near that number to be considered successful,” he said. “Would I like us to be number one? Well, of course. Do we have to be number one to be successful? No. I want us to be no less than number two; that would make me very happy.”For the number two spot, Jacobs reasoned that “Warhammer” would need at least a half-million subscribers, which he guessed was close to what “Final Fantasy” and “EverQuest 2” have now. “Let’s just say north of half a million would mean we’re successful.
Brace yourself: Mark Jacobs, Head of Warhammer says they aren't successful.
They are a bit short of their expectations, and everyone holds themselves to high standards and it is good to be optomisitc. So they might not be the success that they had hoped, and planed to be now, but as long as they have enough subs to keep the game viable they have time to improve it. Lets hope that EA will give them the time to improve on the strong foundation they have now, and I think they will be able to get above that 500k mark. I'll even play the game if things seem to be improving in it.
Will just have to give it a chance and see how things turn out. It's rare to become a success overnight without a large amount of hard work and effort. Just too bad they didn't do the hard work before launch though, because then I think they would more then likely meet their goal of 2nd place.
I wouldn't consider 200k subscribers a "bit short" but I guess some might if they weren't running a MMO. If they had a MMO with 200k subs, they'd be probably fairly happy with that number, so it's fairly significant.
The point of the post is that guy saying 400k is successful is his own idea that WAR is successful. The maker of WAR had an ideal number, based on available potential subscribers and cash outlay what HE thought was a watermark of success. He gave it in a quote for an interview. He did not later call the interviewer and ask for a retraction in error, because he honestly believes this is his cutoff number.
Now I did not say rampant success or WoW-like numbers. Just success. When he gave a number of 500K in order to be considered successful he knew already what his target was. When WAR falls well below +500k subs as they obviously have done, then you look at the aftermath: 64 server closings and two rounds of layoffs (so far) and remember it wasn't a troll's speculative guess but the CEO of the company, you are only left with one conclusion.
When Mythic announced officially the last quarter numbers at 300K, they did not say "This proves WAR is a success", and I'm sure stockholders didn't go: "Hmmm. +500k... 300k. Yep, seems successful to me."
"TO MICHAEL!"
I'd like to see some hard facts from both sides of the argument before ppl throw around subscriber numbers as anything other than conjecture.
Your not going to know unless your in a position within Mythic to glean that info, as players all we can do is guess and that guess could be way way off the mark.
I for one like to wait and see.. There's lots of good in it and bad. Balance is one thing i dont like in WAR, its not the worst but neither the best. And the itemization crap what they brought up with the dungeon sets is kinda lame way to get the game few more months more lifetime. And the performance, geez... this game supposed to have great huge battles and now it cant handle them... But really those few are only things that bothers me in it. Still much less than those that wont.
Still playing tho, best pvp in ages. They should have done DAOC 2 to be honest.
the best way to kill a troll is to FLAME ON! ...or with acid...
Well after some digging I found their last reported fiscal report, it's a bit old now with it being the one produced for December but it does show that EA say the subs are over 300k.
Alot can happen between Dec and Apr though, considering the free trial, it will be interesting to see the 4th quarter results, and wether the 1,100 layoffs are the last for EA.
Highlights
•EA was the leading publisher in North America with approximately 20 percent segment share according to NPD. In Europe, EA was number two behind Nintendo with an estimated 16 percent segment share.
•EA had 13 titles rated 80 or above in calendar 2008 – up from seven a year ago.
•FIFA 09 was EA’s best selling title with 7.8 million copies and charted at number one across all platforms in Europe in the holiday quarter.
•Rock Band was the number one title across all platforms in North America for calendar 2008, based on NPD data.
•Need for Speed Undercover sold 5.2M copies. For fiscal year 2010, the Company will launch three separate versions of Need For Speed (NFS), NFS Shift for the PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system and Xbox 360® video game and entertainment system, NFS Nitro for the Wii™ and Nintendo DS™ and NFS World Online for the PC.
•LITTLEST PET SHOP sold 2.8 million copies on the Nintendo DS, Wii and PC. In the holiday quarter, it was a top-five title on the Nintendo DS in Europe and North America, based on NPD data.
•Warhammer® Online: Age of Reckoning®, an MMO from EA’s Mythic Entertainment studio, ended the quarter with over 300K paying subscribers in North America and Europe.
•EA’s digital direct-to-consumer revenue, which includes online and wireless, was $313 million year-to-date, up 27 percent year-over-year.
•Pogo™ achieved an all-time high of 1.7M paying subscribers in the quarter.
•EA Mobile™ is the world’s leading publisher of games for phones – with revenue of $50 million in the quarter – up 28 percent year-over-year.
As you've found out, some of us don't throw numbers around lightly
I really hate when ppl have to stick their tongue out after a sentence, makes me want to get a pair of scissors and cut the F****NG thing out.
Hey, we all look out for our own self interests, and some folks feel this game is broken in ways that cannot be resolved due to flaws in its core design.
As such, it is draining resources from Mythic who should be working on DAOC 2, (IMO of course) or to release a good version of WAR that more people can enjoy.
Just because 50-100K people enjoy a game doesn't mean the rest of us feel a great IP should go so underutilized.
I think I once read that WAR's engine was based on the original DAOC one and improved. That was probably a mistake if true.
Yeah thats just it with this game though isnt it. Its such a large drain on Mythics resources when they could be focusing on something else. DAoC2 would be an obvious brilliant option........but then again if the same team that worked on WAR ended up working on DAoC2 then it would probably end up being crap as well. Its very clear that the original people who worked on the first DAoC are long gone........but who knows maybe if the new team decided not to use WoW as their source of inspiration they might actually turn something out thats good. Unfortunately originality and decent game design doesnt seem to be a strong point for these guys.
Also if WAR was closed down (which obviously isnt going to happen even though it is a nice thought) then another more talented company would have the option of using the IP to make a decent game out of it. I would love to play a good well made mmo set in the Warhammer world. The current incarnation is stopping that from ever happening.
Looking at the mmo that's gona release this year ( if there's no delay). I'm afraid it'll be very difficult for them to gain any more subs.
And taking some reference at past mmos that have horrible launch, though have greatly improve, yet their numbers didnt really increase much. Eg VG...
So basically mmo now have only 1 chance and 1 chance only to impress and that's only during launch. If it fails to retain the subs after a few months, than the numbers that they have afterwards will basically be the only they have for the rest of the game life...
RIP Orc Choppa
Yeah I just downloaded the DAOC trial and its cool so far, I havent played much of it yet. DAOC is a totally different game than WAR, or so it feels that way to me.
Speaking as someone who played it for a few years but haven't touched it since 2006, I would say that unless it's changed drastically, it's a totally different game from WAR. WAR is not a bad game from what I played of it, but it doesn't hold a candle to DAoC. DAoC is a much more well-rounded game than WAR.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
I don't belive in closing games down if I don't play them, hell let even DarkFall stay open if people are enjoying it.
But for me I won't return while GOA are at the helm of the EU side.
I still get WAR newsletters from them even though my closed beta account says not to.
I certainly wouldn't let them near my CC details and for me that is a gamebreaker.
Yes please, close this pile of shit down.
The game was sold to us with lies basically..Which we wanted to believe (or at least I did).
Contrary to what that fat fuck Paul Barnett said, we STILL have to collect fucking bat wings and other meaningless, bland, brainless quests (chores more like) to level.
Yes we can decide whether to level through RVR or PVE, but they are both shite, bugged, no fun, imbalanced and still a grind.
Mark Jacobs and the rest of his crew should feel a thousand shames at this pathetic attempt at this WoW clone.
By the way, I resubbed after recent patches thinking maybe it had improved...lol, my bad.
sure why not close every game down except the ones you approve of. I dont play War so i guess i dont see how it effects me.
Ok.....
I have to admit with another guy, Swanea or something like that.
This is a stupid ass poll!!!
Like they said, I don't know if you were trying to get attention or what? I mean seriously, what good is this poll going to do? Undoubtly you do have some kind of grudge or hatred towards this game. Heh, that is fine...
This just makes you look like a whiney ass person though.
You would have been much better off just asking who was happy with game, who wasn't, and a couple of options inbetween.
and also add more PvE/PvP non-instanced dungeons and the game will be near perfect, again..imo.
There are two kinds of people in this world. People who pick their nose.. and liars.
Let dead dogs lye
really? this is dumb. i like war, it may not be for everyone. if u dont like it, dont play it...I for one and willing to wait around to see some improvments, and in the meantime im still having fun.